Metta REACTS to Pacers-Thunder, SGA needs Kobe's mindset & next Knicks head coach | Draymond & Baron

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Absolutely. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis. We are live. BD, what's happening, my dog? And we got, so there's this clip that goes around and I see it all the time. It's this clip that go around. We're playing against the Lakers when I was a young guy in the league, maybe like my first or second year because this guy's old as dirt now. So, you know, it gotta be my first or second year. And there something happens. We get into, uh, and I turn and it's like, it's Ron, it's Metta. And by the way, just so we're clear, I don't know whether I should, I don't know whether I should call him Ron or Metta, but because I think that there's a respect level, I'm gonna call him Ron.

Please do.

And when this thing is happening, now people go back and they play the clip like he knew better. And it's like, I was actually, so unhip then. I didn't know better. Like, I actually would just do anything then. Like, the person that people think I am now, I actually was then. And I was like, I didn't know any better. Like, I would have did anything then. But in saying that, um, I'll just be 100% honest with you on this particular intro because this guy is an NBA champion. Yeah. And just because you're, I used to respect NBA champions. I actually don't just respect people because they're NBA champions anymore. But this guy in particular, I have the utmost respect for because of how he played the game, how he went about his business. To be like, you all don't know what it is to be a superstar player in the NBA. And then accept the role. I've never been a superstar in the NBA from a scoring standpoint, but I know what it means to accept a role. And so I know what those two things mean. And to be a superstar in the NBA and average 20+ points a game, and then say like, "Yo, I can still average 20+ points a game, but I'm gonna actually take on this role so that I can be a champion." I got the utmost respect for that. And so— Yeah. BD and I are honored, lucky to have this next guest on the show. BD, you can bring it in, but I just want you all to know how honored I am to have this next guest on the show. A guy who's won championships, a guy who go about his business the way he go about his business, and the way we go about our business, I get it. Like, people call us dumb, they call us stupid, they call us loose cannons, they say we don't know what's going on, and yet we know everything that's going on. And so I'm honored to have this next guest, but BD, you bring it in because it just makes more sense for you to bring it in.

BD, a Swiss Army knife of moves, the epitome of a two-way player plus more. The heart of Queens, New York. Queensbridge, stand up. The essence of New York basketball. The legacy Laker, future Hall of Famer, Streetball Hall of Famer, rapper, investor, now fund manager. I mean, there's nothing this dude can't do. That's why I say he's a Swiss Army knife of culture. He's been a pinnacle in our game on the offensive end, the defensive end. He can get a bucket, he can stop a bucket. There's very, very few people in the history of the game that can move like my guy, Matta.

World peace.

Yo, what's good, baby? Thanks for having me. That intro is incredible. Yo, Draymond, I respect you so much. That clip that they had, once I saw that clip, I tweeted right away. I said, yo, Draymond's the illest. I respect him. He's incredible. They try to throw gas on the fire, man. Don't be trying to amp Draymond. Draymond ain't scared of nobody. Y'all ain't trying to get me in a little argument with Draymond.

Hey, listen.

You ain't trying to amp it up, Drake.

You know why I respect that the most? Is because I got the utmost respect for you. I got the utmost respect for you. Same here, man. By the way you went about your game. I got the utmost respect for you, how you handle yourself, how you walk around the NBA. But when I saw the clip, I'm like, yeah, y'all taking this outta context. I wasn't scared. But here's the beautiful about, Here's the beautiful part about this situation is I'm not scared, he ain't scared. And in the NBA, as you know, when two people aren't scared, that's when you just move on. Like, I'm not scared of you, you're not scared of me. With the utmost respect, we're gonna move on and go do our job. It's when you have the guys that are scared, They say wild shit because they are afraid. Yeah.

So they're— It's the wolf mentality. When you're a wolf and you see a wolf, it's like, okay, I see a wolf, I'm a wolf, you a wolf.

Wait, I don't know that one.

I'm going about my business.

Even when I had the issue with Ben, when Ben pushed me, people like, why you didn't fight Ben? I said, you know, I didn't feel like fighting Ben.

But anyway, in that situation, Ben's not really gonna do anything to disrespect you because there's a respect level there.

He pushed me hard, he pushed me, but you know, it's all right, it's not that bad.

He pushed you, but there was so much going on in that situation. Like this guy's on the floor, that guy's on the floor, this guy's fighting that guy, right?

Yeah, yeah.

But there's a respect level that come amongst the guys that—

For sure.

It's when you get the guy, and so everybody in the world will say, ah, you tried that on that guy. And it's like, no, actually that guy was the one to say something so wild to me that I do wanna crush him, right? Like, because he don't understand the respect level that's had amongst those type of guys. And so he'll say something wild And you like, yo, I'll destroy you. Like, what I do to you?

Hey man, man.

Yeah. 85% of that is true. 15% of that, Draymond been slapped him and slapped him like, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I be seeing Draymond. I don't know, you saw my tweets. I be like, yo, I see Draymond do some wild shit. I'll be like, I'll tweet like, hey young fella, you all right? I might have DM'd you one time, honestly. I might have DM'd Draymond Green. I ain't gonna lie. Like, yo, my guy, you need to talk to me. Hey, you look in your DMs, you probably got a DM from me.

That's hilarious.

Hey bro, we came a long way though. We came a long way. Yeah, for sure. Especially me and Meadow. I know, man.

BD, we've known each other since '16, man.

Especially me and Ron. 'Cause Ron, remember you, remember the Boston shootout? Oh yeah.

High school shit, man. It was wild.

Hey, he was killing. He averaged like 30 the whole tournament, but New York didn't win no games.

That's New York basketball. That is New York basketball. That's what I'm trying to bring it back to the Knicks, baby.

Back then, Ron Artest was fucking murdering, bro. 30, he was getting, he had 30 on us. Maybe he had like 37 on us, me, Shea. Man, you had 30 on Atlanta, but they lost every game. Hey, brother, the All-Tournament team was announced and he was chilling. Cedric Ceballos in the house, ladies and gentlemen. Ced just walked in. So look, they was like, yo, son, yo, son, you didn't, you didn't make All-Tournament team.

He was like, what? I didn't do what? Well, he didn't make the All-Tournament team.

No, bro.

That's like NBA voting.

Well, he went down the line and he said, how didn't I make All-Tournament? I bust his ass, I gave him 30. I bust his ass, I gave him 30. Hey bro, this is during the award ceremony.

Hey bro, he was like, fuck that. And kicked the table over.

I was crying.

That is—

Yeah, I remember that.

Y'all got a lot in common, dude. And I'm proud of both of y'all, I gotta say.

Sorry, Boston Shootout. I respect y'all. I don't know who it was, but a lot of broken awards.

A lot of broken awards. You was killing though. You was killing though.

That is crazy, man. That's insane.

That's funny. Yeah, we alike, Draymond. We kind of similar, Dray.

Nah, I've, you know, like I said before, one of the guys that I have the utmost respect for. I think, so my mama raised me, and my mama raised me like, you don't bow down to men. Like, you don't, I don't care what they've done, how great it's been, you don't bow down to men. And so for me personally, when I came into the NBA, Everybody to me was just on like an equal playing field. Like, oh man, like I respect you, you're great. Like, damn, I respect the way you go about this. I respect, but that don't mean anything to me when it comes down to me doing what I gotta do. You know what I'm saying? And when I take a step back though, I think there are some guys that just earned the respect because I do know this business. I do know how this thing works and I watched how they went about their business and you're one of those guys for me. So I, I just wanna say thank you for coming on the show. We appreciate you. Um, and I want to get right into Game 3, both of y'all reactions to Game 3. They say when the series is tied 1 to 1, the team that win Game 3 goes on to win 81% of the time. And I think when I look at this team, Draymond Green. No one expected Indiana to win Game 3. They haven't won a Game 3 all playoffs long, and yet they come in here and win Game 3. Just what's y'all reaction to them? What them tying it or them taking the lead 2-1? And you know, obviously what that history is of 81% of the time they go on to win the series.

You played in Indiana. I, I, I they won their night. You know, give us your assessment on it.

Yeah, I was at the game, you know, and I was just like, for me, I wanna see them win bad because I feel like when I was here, we probably should have won if I'd have kept my head on straight. That's why I was—

Ooh, don't talk about that, Madden. Come on now, you killing me.

Let me bring it in. Oh, here we go. And it's perfect 'cause it's actually perfect 'cause you on this podcast. And when I think about how you play the game, Draymond Green, If my head was on straight, I probably wouldn't have as much rings as you had, right? Like, I look how you play the game, but no matter what people say about you, you never got ejected. You never got ejected in crucial games. So you actually did have focus, you know what I'm saying? No matter what people said, but your passion is just next level, right? So, you know, when I look at Indiana and what we could have done, and I'm looking at it now, if they win this title,— it takes a whole burden off my back. It'd have been 20 years, but the fans were so pissed at me for so long. We got over it. They deserve it. They felt like we should have won. They had our back. They supported me through the brawl and all this stuff, through my immaturities and all this stuff. So now I'm sitting here at the game, you know, half of the burden to be off, you know, be off my back for sure if they win it. This is why I'm pulling for them so much. And they remind me of the Detroit Pistons team. This Pacers team reminds me of that Detroit Pistons team. A little bit different body types, but like in terms of playing together.

Yeah.

Not making mistakes. You know, no real superstar. Detroit became superstar. Even Draymond Green, y'all became superstars at Golden State. You know what I'm saying? And y'all earned it. And now you see this team, like if they win it, They should be bona fide superstars. They won a title with no real superstars, honestly.

Right. That make a lot of sense. I mean, you gotta earn your way. And I'm watching the game and Indiana, they just don't stop, right? Even when they was up 8 and Halliburton got the deflection with 2.6 seconds on the clock. It just says something to their mentality of we're gonna finish, we're gonna finish, we're gonna finish, we're gonna finish. And the dynamic of their team— everybody plays defense. Even if you are not a good defender, they give every, every effort that they can possibly give, they give it on the defensive end. They scrappy, they fly around. And I think OKC is running into the same problem. Yeah.— that the New York Knicks ran into. You cannot play this Indiana team. You can't play one-on-one basketball.

Yeah, don't worry.

It's gonna wear on. OKC did not move the ball. Every time somebody had the ball, the ball stuck, you know? And I think Indiana thrives off of that, 'cause they wear you down. So in the clutch, when you ready to go one-on-one, everybody standing around, That's when they swarm.

I agree with that 100%. I think for us personally, when we were going through that transition, we didn't necessarily understand it, but I've been fortunate enough to win 4 championships. And I think the one thing that I come away with it is our offensive brand. And the way we play is, as great as Steph Curry is, during those times, at times, we'd use Steph as a decoy. And we had Steve Kerr as a coach, who's one of the greatest coaches to ever coach in the NBA. He's comfortable enough in his own skin to use Steph as a decoy, because when you have a Steph Curry, when you have a Kobe Bryant, when you have these type of guys, oftentimes coaches are afraid to use them as a decoy, to use them to put everybody else in the best position to win the game. And I think one of the best attributes that I've witnessed with Steve is like, he's cool with him, he's cool with using Steph as a decoy. And what says so much about Steph Curry as who Steph Curry is, is he's cool with being used as a decoy. He don't have the ego. When you look at us winning the championship in 2022 and that being his first NBA Finals MVP, the guy just wanna win. He don't care if it equals out, if the points equal out to this, if the assists equal out to this. So that I can win Finals MVP. He don't move that way. He just wanna win the championship. And so when I look at these teams and you speak about one-on-one basketball, I know for certain that doesn't work. We played against the Spurs in my rookie year. We played the Spurs in the second round after we beat Denver. And when we played against them, I remember a game where Steph had like 20 points straight or 21 points straight. And I'm like, yeah, we doing it. We was, we, it was game 4. We were up 2 to 1, possibility to go up 3 to 1 against the Spurs. We had never had any success. That's a big deal. And Steph had like 20 points straight and Pop kept the coverage the exact same. And his point was, let's see him beat us Can he beat us over the course of 48? Not can he beat us over the course of 28. Not can he beat us over the course of 38. Can he beat us over the course of 48? And sure enough, Steph went for 18 straight, 20 straight. The moment he missed the shot, San Antonio was rolling. And so now, because we've gotten so hell-bent on watching him do what he do, letting him score the points. No one else was in rhythm. They came back, they won game 4, they won game 5, they won game 6, they won the series in 6. And so I've watched that, and to your point with Shea, the one-on-one, and it's not Shea's fault, it's their offensive system, but the one-on-one sometimes can catch up to you. And I would ask the question to Ron, as someone who has to guard those guys, what are you— and you going in, you play with Phil Jackson, who's the guy, one of the guys who talks to you. What are y'all going into in a playoff situation like that where you got a guy like that? Because I know for us, James Harden was that guy, right? And we played James Harden like, yo, he gonna get 30 points in the first half, but we need to let him wear down and then we'll come back. What was it like for y'all in situations like that?

Yeah, I mean, we just try to stick to the coverage. We played against KD the first year and we had to switch because, you know, KD's coming off these screens. Then we had, we had to switch Bynum on him. It was no, it was, that was the best coverage and we just had to stick with it. And you know, sometimes he had to go against Bynum, sometimes Bynum would guard him well. But if it was Powell, we tried to keep Powell off. Bynum was moving, you know, how big Bynum was, but he was moving a little bit better on the perimeter. You know, and then when Bynum, maybe, maybe he was hurt or fatigued, we'll switch the coverage. But, you know, Phil was like really just sticking to it. And to your point on one-on-one, you know, one of the reasons why it's so hard to guard LeBron, because he, he's not only going one-on-one, even though he's a great one-on-one player. When I first started playing against LeBron, what really was killing me was that he was a team player. So when he would move the ball, he would move it in the way where you had to shift you know, he was moving it to a good target where the defense was going to be all out of whack. So not only was he doing that, he was also really good, you know, um, as a one-on-one player. So you can't help off him too much. Then when you're closing out to him, that's a huge problem. And like you said, you know, in, in terms of, um, this game, yeah, if you're gonna—

Rick Carlisle.

This is all— this is Rick Carlisle's comfort zone because now the game is more physical. So if you want to play one-on-one, well, now you're just asking Rick to coach how he coached. In 2004, and that's what he do. The game is physical, you can touch, so it ain't like you can get a clean shot off because your arm is going to be moving right now. You see how the game is like real physical right now, right? I mean, so they're gonna have to change something.

Yeah, I think also, man, once again, and I, I say it again, you got to stick with your guns, you got to stick with your lineup. Your best lineup is your big lineup, right? What I saw tonight was Chet Holmgren at the 5 is not an effective thing for OKC because he don't protect the paint, he don't rebound, and he doesn't roll. And in order for Shay to get to his sweet spots, you need that pick and roll with the big dude rolling to the hole. So he can get to 15, 7-foot, 17 feet in his sweet spot. With Chet, you picking and popping. And once again, if you don't have nobody filling the ghost or, or filling the lane, then you really don't have no space. And everybody can be guarded. And so I'm, I'm looking at this OKC lineup by avoiding the big guy, avoiding your big lineup, and saying you never giving yourself the chance for them to adjust to you. And so I favor Indiana in this series if they're gonna keep trying to figure out, hey, we're gonna go to this small lineup and think it's gonna be effective. Like we said with the Knicks, the same thing. You cannot beat the Indiana Pacers with a small lineup because they're big. They have big versatile fours, 3-4, 4 stretch, 4-5s. They have that versatility and they play at a certain pace where you really can't match it. So you get cross-match, you know, on your defense. And that's what I'm saying with OKC. Chet, you know, Chet, he's switching out on picks. He can't stand in front of somebody, right? They shooting the 3, he at the top of the perimeter. He's not inclined to go crash the boards.

Mm-hmm.

And so Obi Toppin, Pascal Siakam, at the 4, at the 5, they're gonna always outplay Chen Hong.

So I have a question for both of y'all then, if that's the case. And I'm gonna bring a different viewpoint from it, for it, from what y'all may have because of what the rules were. So I'm going to ask this question specifically. If that's the case and what you're saying, BD, which I agree with everything you're saying, in the world of second aprons, what the taxes are, all these things, can you then pay that guy $180 to $200 million? Because when you do that, when you look at this OKC team, when you do that, right, like you got Shai who gonna make $70 million a year. You got, um, J Dub, who gonna make $50 million a year. And you got Chet, who's also going to make that type of money a year. But when you do that, and under these new rules, Alex Caruso gotta go, Hardenstein gotta go, Lou Dort gotta go. Can you still be successful at that level? Yeah. If, if you can't depend on him to be able to protect the rim at the 5, because that's what it creates.

Well, I think like you get a window of opportunity, you know, you get a window of opportunity to put these teams together. And you're right, because it will look different. I was talking to somebody today. I said, I don't think Michael Jordan ever had a team like Shay. If Michael Jordan was on This team, wow. And this is no shot to shake, because I actually thought, um, SGA, I said at times he's better than Michael Jordan, actually, because at times his game is just incredible. But it's true, you lose a couple key pieces, you know, that's, that's going to be an issue. Whereas Rick Carlisle, if you notice, a lot of people, they don't know how to coach bigs, which is why they don't play bigs, which is why I can't wait to coach. Yeah. 'cause I love to coach bigs in tandems. And then you guys at Golden State, you guys took advantage of slips. You guys never passed up on a slip. There's a lot of teams that slipped there, big got mismatched, they won't pass it because they don't trust.

Yeah. Yeah.

They don't trust.

Playmaking. And Indiana trust, oh, if you slip, we, Rick Carlos like, throw that ball home. To Thomas Bryant, right? Facts. Yeah.

Facts.

Which makes a big difference, I think, because you look at it a lot of times, most coaches ain't gonna tell you to throw the ball to Thomas Bryant, right? They're gonna leave Thomas Bryant open, which then, as you know, allows then Mark Dagnall to say, "They ain't throwing the ball to him, so we don't even have to guard him." And it takes on a whole different life.

Whole different life.

It's the science of basketball. You always wanna get the ball in the middle of the floor, right? And if you can train your big guys to understand how to stop, catch, look, everything is wide open. And that's what Myles Turner can do. Not only can he stop and catch, but he can shoot. Thomas Bryant can shoot. Pascal Siakam, he can create and make plays. So can I OB top it? So OKC, they not— when they hit the roll man, it works. Indiana is science, right? It is science. That is going to break the second wall of the defense where you automatically got a 3-on-2. And if you got any playmaker, that's why the Warriors was so great, Draymond. That's what made you so great. Is Steph gets double-teamed, he automatically hitting you. And it was almost like a science, right? It was almost like a science. Like, damn, I get to play 3-on-2, 3-on-1 with people recovering. That just breaks the defense back.

I agree with you. Listen, here's how it went though, BD, for me. Steph Curry grabs 2 guys, which leaves us 3-on-2 on the backside. And then one guy's not helping off Klay Thompson. They ain't leaving Klay Thompson's body.

Right.

So guess what I got? A 3-on-1 on the backside.

That's what I said, yeah.

Absolutely. So for me personally, I agree with you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. When you could, that's been in, I'm sorry, Meta, that's, that's been my thing. I was actually just sitting with PG watching this game, and PG got the Pacers winning, and I believe the Pacers can win this series. But my only thing with that is if the Pacers don't get Pascal Siakam the ball enough, he is the one guy on their team that every possession he has the ball, he can get to the shot he's trying to get to. And secondly, not only every possession that he had the ball, he can get the shot he get to, but every possession he has the ball, he's the one guy on Indiana's team that can create a double team, which makes the next domino fall, you know? And so when I take a step back, and I look at this series, I, I really like Indiana. I think Indiana can win this series. I just don't know if they will because for instance, you watch this game tonight, they had 17 turnovers at one point. OKC had 11 and they were down 2 points. So ultimately when you get down to it, And OKC play their best game and Indiana play their best game, who's winning that game?

OKC.

I mean, you know, and you know, the thing that, the one thing Indiana has last year when Giannis got hurt, right? I think a couple people got hurt, which Indiana advanced, right? They took advantage of that. They advanced.

As you have to. As you, we all know, you have to take advantage of those things.

Gotta take advantage of that. But what happened is they gained the experience, right? So then they in the semifinals or whatever, they gained that experience and now they took that into this year, even though they the same type of team, right? They even finished in 4th place. But in the playoffs, right, as you know, they got an experience that OKC, they don't got. Any chink in the armor, Indiana's like, oh, we've seen this before. Yeah, we're gonna take advantage of this.

Yep. It's knowing who you are versus still discovering who you are, right? There's no doubt when the ball needs it, when Indiana needs a player, needs a shot, they know who to put who to get a ball to. Halliburton, Pascal, Nembhard. Everybody else is getting in position waiting for them to make plays, right? OKC is really two people, Jalen Williams and Shay. But with OKC, because they play such a one-on-one type of style, that ball is sticking to their hands, right? And so thinking about, you know, Indiana and what they did with Shay, he was 9 for 20 tonight. I want us, I want y'all to talk about just his play. Like what does he need to do more of, right? To get— Um. OKC over the Hump?

Man, I mean, I actually don't want them to win, so I actually don't think they— I love OKC. I think Shai is dope. Like I said, at times he's better than MJ, but I don't want to give anything. I want to actually get the wrong information. Like, hey, put it through your legs and go behind your back.

All right, let's talk about, let's talk about—

No, I got, I got something. I got something.

You got a gem? Give me a gem.

Because my thing is this, as someone who comes from a system of like, you got Steph Curry, at times Steph Curry gonna be the guy and do everything that Steph Curry does. But at times you have to know when to use Steph Curry against everyone else. And we're not really trying to use Steph Curry. So as someone who's lived through that, and I see what's going on in the series, I think honestly, and I think Shay gotta be more aggressive. I don't, when I watch that game tonight, I'm like, when's Shay gonna come? When's, when he gonna pause?

Pause thing.

When, when he gonna, when, when is Shay going to do what we know Shay to do. And that's someone who's been in these situations. Don't get it twisted, you can hear somebody say Shay shooting too much is going to hurt them and try to lessen it a little bit. This is human nature.

Mm-hmm.

And when I watched that game tonight, I never felt like Shay said, I'm taking over this game, I'm gonna win this game and do that. And so I said all of that to say, As much as I think ball, like I come from a system of like, you move the ball, you hit the open man and that's that. That's not their system. And so what I would say is, to Shea, don't fall into the trap of the world because the media around the NBA Finals is bigger than any NBA game media in the history. Don't fall into the trap of what the world is saying of like, yo, he's shooting too much, he foul bait. Fuck that.

You gotta have to flow the game.

Yeah, shoot it 35 times.

You gotta go for it.

It's true, it's like my rhythm when I played with Kobe, I only got one title, but during that time, you know, I had to be the best role player I could be. So sometimes I had to shoot the shot that was in rhythm, even though I wasn't in rhythm. I didn't feel comfortable 'cause I don't have, I'm not taking 20 shots like I'm used to. And on top of that, sometimes I would miss and I would have to go 2 or 9. And then the media's like, why are you shooting? Oh, don't shoot. Then you got the arena listening to the media and arena's like, no, don't shoot. You open. I gotta shoot it.

Right.

Because in flow and Powell is going towards the offensive boards right now. So as if his big is coming out, if I shoot it now, he got a chance to rebound it, which he's done before, right? So it's like, it's true. Now in SGA's role, same thing. You can't listen to what other people saying. You gotta do what's best for your team.

So in saying that, because what you must understand is I, I watch these, these things as a 16-year-old, and I remember, but I've always been interested in the game, right? Like what they're saying about the game. And so I remember watching you play in those finals and watching you play in those playoffs. And when you shot the 3 on the right wing, everybody like, why would he shoot that 3?

Bang! Yeah, one time, in real time.

Bang!

Confidence.

Is that, and I've heard the stories, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I've heard the stories of like, you left the arena right after that in your jersey, in your uniform, and went to the spot. Is that the thing that led to the feeling of like, yeah, I'm outta here, I don't need to shower, I don't need to do anything. I'm going to this club in LA, which probably was Greystone at the time.

Oh, probably.

I'm going and do this right now in my uniform because I know what that feels like. Is that the thing that led you to like, All of those actions?

Not really. Well, after game 6, I got a little lift in. I wanna throw that in there. I went right to Equinox and got a little lift in 'cause I wanted enough time to recover. So I left Staples, got to Equinox at about 10:15, got a quick lift in, and then that carried over to game 7. You know what I mean? Got the lift in. And then when we won, I mean, for me it was like, I felt like I would never win a title because I was so immature. I put my team at risk of losing. I had no emotional control for a long time. So when I won it, I was like, damn, I actually won it. Like, I didn't even realize we won until I looked at the clock. And when the clock said 0-0, I'm like, oh, we really won.

You know what I mean?

So my mind was just all over the place and I just was— Yeah. You know, I always wanted one. I never really wanted, I did want more, but I always said I want one. And then like, I was going to be happy. Maybe if I'd have said I want 2 or 3, maybe I would've got 2 or 3, but I was really happy. And like that summer I partied, I drank. The next year we came, we got swept. We got swept by Dallas.

Hey, that's, That's funny. That's funny. But you know, I think when I take a step back and I look at those series, I'll be honest with you. This year, and I've already said this on this podcast, this year Julius Randle completely bust my ass. Like nothing I could do about it. I made him take shots I wanted him to take. I did the things I wanted to do. He completely bust my ass. But I'll be honest, when Steph went out of the lineup, Steve asked me to, Draymond, we need you to push the ball down the floor. Every time we get the ball, as if we're on a fast break and somebody missed a shot, because we need to create advantage and we need to create mismatches. And if you just push it the way you push it, we'll create the mismatch, and then we can get the ball to someone who can take advantage of the mismatch. And so that was my whole focus in, in the series is like, I'mma just get it soon. If it go in or if we miss, I'm coming back to the ball. I'm get it. I'mma push. Yeah. We'll figure it out after. And I will, I, I will say to you, I haven't said this to anyone in the world, but they'll know it now. When Steph went out, it was like, oh, I need to push the ball like that and I need to score. And in my career, I haven't really been in that situation much where like I need to push the ball, I need to anchor the defense, and I need to score. Mm-hmm. And so when we got into that situation, I could push the ball, I could anchor the defense, or I could push the ball, I could score, anchoring the defense was a little tougher, right? Like, those things played a part into who I was. How did you go about being Ron Artest, who scored, 20 points a game, 22 points a game in the NBA, to Metta World Peace, who may score 8 points or may score 4 points, but I'mma lock your, lock your guy up. I'mma bring that physicality. Because to me, it's the first time in my career actually where I had to like do all of those things.

And—

It was—

It was difficult.

Look at what happened to us. It was impossible.

It was difficult, like, to go— imagine in your prime, contract year, you know, you're in your prime, and that's what was really difficult is like, you know, I'm like, damn, I can't really show nothing. There's no room. Like, so I said, you know what, I'm a role player for the rest of my career. I gotta hear people say How am I getting old from the year prior? I was averaging 25 in the playoffs and then I got worse in 6 months. How hard I, I didn't get worse in 6 months. People like, he old now. I'm like, damn, I can't even back myself up. But I can't, I can't. And then you got Kobe. Kobe like, I don't care what they saying, bring that ball to me.

Medical in that corner.

And you stay there. But it was tough. But you know what, I was like, you know, that was the toughest experience I had. And I said, you know, I'm just gonna be the best role player. And I was actually, I learned more from that than, you know, when I had the opportunities to score.

No, most definitely, man.

Talk about, I always wondered, you know, you played for Houston, y'all lost to the Lakers, they beat you. Then you wind up joining the Lakers. Did Kobe reach out to you? Like, how did— what made you want to go to the Lakers? How did that transpire?

Well, initially I didn't want to go to the Lakers. I never wanted to go to the Lakers. Like, I had opportunity that people called me and, you know, whatever. I don't want to keep talking about it, but I always wanted to play against people. So I tried to go back to Indiana. I was always trying to go back. Well, first I was trying to go back to Houston. You know, I don't want to get into it. I was supposed to go back to Houston. And then things happen, which is, is just incredibly annoying. Then I said, okay, what's next? I'm always trying to think about the Knicks, but then Donnie Walsh was at the Knicks at that time. So I, I threw a quick signal out there. Um, that didn't work. You know, Donnie was there. We had the issues in the history in Indiana. So then I tried to go to, in, um, back to Indiana, but you know, those conversations quickly went. It was still fresh in people's mind and heart. Then I tried to go to Detroit. That's what I was trying to do. And then they was like, nah, we can't, you know, too much history. I said, listen, this is gonna be epic. Ron Artest with an Artest on the back of a Detroit jersey. I said, y'all missing the whole point. This is legendary. They was scared. I'm like, ah, I'm not worried about— I got people in Detroit. I love Detroit. When I go to Detroit—

You know?

I got people, they love me in Detroit. The fans, they go crazy in Detroit. Like I literally got fans in Detroit. So then that didn't happen. And then, but the first team to call me was the Lakers. The Lakers called at 12:01. I was like, they called me, my agent was like, David Bowman, hey, the Lakers wanna speak to you. And the first thing I said, I was like, for fucking what? That's the first thing I said to my agent. These niggas just beat us. I don't wanna fuck with you.

Yeah, yeah.

He was like, they want to sign you. I'm like, what? The Lakers? I said, I gotta call you back. I'm like, damn, like Dr. Buss, Phil Jackson. I'm like, this is crazy. Met with Dr. Buss that morning. We chatted. He was like, yo, I can't pay you what you deserve. We only got the mid. And I was like, don't even worry about it. Like, this is incredible. That's how I got to the Lakers.

That's killer.

Yeah, that's how I got to the Lakers.

That's fire. That's insane. So when I look at this game, Game 3, I wanna ask you two guys a question or something because, and I'll ask you two this, both of y'all this question because I think for me personally, the one thing I never wanna become is I don't want to become one of these grumpy older guys that played the game before and I feel like I'm hating on the younger guys. I never want to become that. So in saying that, when I watch this game, when I watch these NBA Finals, I'm like, yo, I don't feel like this is the level of preparation. This is the level of like— Draymond Green. Like dialed in is that like when I played in the Finals, I don't feel like they do that. And the reason I feel like, like when you look at specific thing, I'll point to a very specific thing of why I say that. I feel like when I was coming through the NBA Finals and I had to win the NBA Finals, and this could be my coach, like again, I think my coach is the greatest ever. Maybe he not, that's for everybody else to debate, but I think my coach is the greatest coach ever. And TJ McConnell getting a sneak back steal would never happen. Like we're so dialed in on that one thing in this game plan that there's no way TJ McConnell gonna hop off the guy he's going to to get the steal. And I watched him get two of those tonight and I couldn't believe it because I'm like, yo, this is—

That last one changed the game.

This is NBA Finals. Like, there's no way you can get this steal in the NBA Finals and you got that steal. No, and you got that steal on Tuesday, November 10th. 2024, and now we're in the finals in 2025 and you get that steal.

Yeah.

So I ask you guys the question as, as, as two guys who's played this game, I'm still in it, but as two guys who played this game, like, do y'all feel the same way about this NBA finals as you have about previous ones?

I would actually say I have been extremely impressed watching these whole entire playoffs. Like, I am fucking loving the playoffs. I'm loving the finals. The games are good. It's good basketball. It may be, it may not be, you know, like two teams playing at the ultimate perfection, But like, it is good basketball. And that TJ McConnell steal, the second one, that changes the momentum. And so Draymond Green, you and I talked about this in the beginning of the year, that OKC, they will take a couple plays off mentally.

Mm-hmm.

Just 'cause they're young, just 'cause they have more talent. And shit like that comes back to haunt you. You up 4, right? You don't get the offensive rebound. They score 2. Then you in a rush to throw the ball nowhere. This kid steals the ball, lays the ball up, ties score. Halliburton come back, hit a 3. The whole moment, you never come, you never recover. You never recover. Right. So carelessness, right, is, Hopefully something that, and as you watch championships, you see teams that may lose on a fluke, going all the way back to Detroit Pistons when Larry Bird stole the ball. Shit like that happens, right?

Mm-hmm.

The teams that win make those moments happen. And that's what Indiana is doing different than OKC. OKC, may take a playoff, may make a lackadaisical pass because they have that— they have kind of like a real nonchalant charisma.

Yes, they do.

And like, that nonchalant charisma also, that shit can play against you where it's like, oh, don't shit affect me, but I don't care. But it's like, you can't shake your shit out. You can't shake yourself— you can't shake yourself out of it. You know, that's, that's where, that's where my hiccup is. And TJ McConnell, he is, he is the essence of what Indiana basketball is. That's playing hard, that's taking advantage of every mistake, right? And, and being first to the action.

Yeah, you know, I mean, to TJ McConnell's point, and I'm gonna answer Draymond Green's question also, but I was at Game 5 in Indiana, one of those games. They came out, they were shooting a bunch of threes. TJ came into the game, started driving the ball into the teeth of the defense and changed the whole game, by the way. Right. Which they then came back and won. If TJ didn't do that, they would've lost that game.

Mm-hmm.

You know, you always need that player that see like, oh, we're shooting too many threes. I gotta come in here. And do something different, start penetrating, you know. And then you look at last year with Indiana, you know, without those injuries, maybe they lose, but they was making the same mistakes that OKC is making this year. The difference is they kept going, they kept advancing, and then they gained that experience. So now you got an OKC team who—

Yeah.

They do a lot of things well. They got a lot of great individual talent, a lot of great role players, but you know, they're not prepped in every single— the little areas they're not prepped in. Like you said, Draymond Green, how are you getting those 2 steals? Well, Phil Jackson, you know, press break is a part of the— the press break is a part of the offense, right? You look at what happened even at Milwaukee, and I don't even want to give away too much. I'm trying to be a head coach soon, so I'm like trying to keep myself— but I try to keep a little bit for myself, but It's true. How are you not prepped?

You don't run a press break, bro. That is like basketball one-on-one.

It is one-on-one. It is the most, you know, it's important. And sometimes you don't go through it. You get into these playoffs, especially with the game being more physical, BD, to your point. Like I'm enjoying this year. This is, I'm enjoying the playoffs. Like it was incredible this year, but as physical as it is, you gotta be ready to break the press. Cause guys is touching you now. You know what I mean? And they're not, they're not prepared. You gotta sprint to get open. Like you gotta work to get open. You can't be like you said, lackadaisical. Nah, it ain't working. That's not working in the finals. And Rick Carlisle, this is right in Rick Carlisle's sweet spot.

Yeah.

He went from Southern to fall. He played in the soft era, sort of a soft era. He went through all those eras and you telling me now, They saying you could touch. Oh, this is Rick Carlisle's sweet spot right here.

And the thing that Indiana is doing, they're making you start your offense at half court.

They doing what the Pistons does.

Yep.

Indiana doing what Lindsey Hunter, who's one of the greatest point guard defenders in the history, like this guy was—

Man, he was a harasser. He was a bona fide harasser. Incredible.

I mean, you're not getting, you're not getting into your offense until—

All day, all day he harassing.

This is what Carlisle's doing. I said the Pistons didn't have Lindsey Hunter, man, we win that series.

So you think someone at the— because again, we live in a world where people have their own opinions, where the media I think the media control the NBA, by the way, just so we're clear. I, I, players, there, there's this common misconception of players have the power in the NBA. I personally think the media has the power in the NBA. Like, I think that's who controls the NBA. But are you saying that you think, because I, I actually, Now, a couple days ago I spoke about how I think is Alex Caruso is the most important player on— third most important player. Obviously Shay, obviously J Dub, but I think Alex Caruso, yeah, is the third most important player. Yeah. Okay, see, and Ron, I'm hearing you say Lindsey Hunter. Do you think a guy like Lindsey Hunter is that important to winning the championship?

Man, I wish Lindsey Hunter— you can't have Lindsey Hunter and Mike James on the same team. It was really difficult. These guys was harassing us. I mean, we couldn't get the ball. It was really difficult because, yeah, Jamal Tinsley is incredible, but you talking about when you play against these guys, they send in Mike James, then they send in Lindsey, then they send in Mike James, then they send in Lindsey. You're not getting into your offense, you know, until 13 seconds. I didn't package at that point in time.

At half court. At half court. Yeah.

Please take Lindsey Hunter off the court. Like, please don't put him in the game and we're gonna be okay. Mike just won, Mike James. You can't have, and Lindsey was a little bit better than Mike, even though Mike was more athletic. But Lindsey was a scientist when it comes to, you know, putting pressure in the backcourt. And that's what the Pacers got.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's the— it's Draymond Green, the disruptor, right? And you are one of those disruptors. Like, when you think about somebody who just completely disrupts your offense, and that can be picking somebody up full court, making them— making your point guard pass the ball close to the half-court ring is disgusting for a point guard. And if you can, and if you watch Indiana, OKC get across half court, they running pick and rolls at the half court line.

Mm-hmm.

Just to try and get some space. New York did it the same way with Brunson. Brunson is damn near using the half court line as another pick. And so if, if, if your defense can extend that far, all game. Then when it comes down to the clutch and now you got to play in a tight space, you can— ain't nothing open. You can shrink the floor and you can still cover ground because they can't— they don't see space. They can only see spacing from half court, which is terrible. You don't never want to start your, your offense at half court.

No, that's a fact. I think when we look at those type of guys like TJ McConnell, for instance, to your point, he's doing the same thing. When you look at those type of guys, you just, when it comes to the NBA, yes, everyone is talented. Yes, everyone is skilled, all these things. You have, Bill Belichick has this saying, This is not Bill Belichick saying, but Bill Belichick, the way Bill Belichick goes about his offense is, Bill Belichick goes about his offense, he say, I'm gonna double team the best wide receiver. The best wide receiver you have, excuse me, Bill Belichick would double team your second best wide receiver. He'll double team your second best wide receiver and tell you, go ahead and beat us with your first best wide receiver. I'm gonna double team your second best receiver so he can't get anything. And I'm gonna make your best wide receiver beat us. Can you beat us over the course of, you look at an NFL game, it's 15 minutes a quarter. Can you beat us over the course of that 60 minutes?

Why are you jocking Bill Belichick?

Because.

Pittsburgh Steelers fan, man.

What?

See, got him. Caught him red-handed.

Hey, man.

Hey, man. When we all got championships.

Nah, I don't give a fuck. When we all got championships. When you a fan of football, you don't quote the rival coach. If you a Pittsburgh Steelers, You don't quote Belichick.

When we all got championships, it don't even matter because we all got the championships. So you win your way, I'ma win it my way. But Bill Belichick, he said, I'm a double team. Second best receiver.

You gotta make people make decisions.

Go beat us with your first best receiver.

That's what Rick Carlisle's doing.

And that is exactly what Rick Carlisle is doing. Shay Gillespie, Shay Gillespie, Alexander, they're loaded up, they're boxes and elbows, they're— the whole defense is overreacting. And then J Dub go get a drive to the hole and he bumped one guy, he get a dunk and one. He— they telling him, we're willing to let you go beat us.

Yeah.

It can't— we're not letting Shay go beat us.

Yeah.

And I, I want to ask the question to both of you guys is, is that ultimately a sustainable game plan to win 4 games in this series?

Well, I think you said it earlier, I think Shai got a Shai problem, right? He gotta, he gotta bring— he didn't bring his game yet, so he got to answer that first question first, right? Then he can get to that, you know, what you just asked just now, you know, because even if they was doing that, imagine that's Kobe, even if they were sending a double doing the tilt, you know, Kobe splitting it, figuring out how to attack that, you know, he might go 5 for 30. You know, but he gonna try to, he gonna try to break you. And he's done that a lot. And I think that's the first problem that Shai gotta answer.

So when you're speaking about Kobe, I love that. So when Shai, so you agree that Shai just need to be more, he need to go, fuck it, I don't give a care if we win, lose, this is what I'm doing and let's win off that.

Yeah, I can't. Yeah, actually, Shay should just go behind his back 5 times. That's gonna work.

Hey, so listen, you know what's crazy is one of the biggest things Steve taught me, and I've never said this on camera, he taught me how to deal with the media when you're in a playoff series. And you acting the way you're acting right now, tells me how much he learned from Phil because you acting the way you're acting, you won't say anything. So let's just get right into it then. You won't say anything. You recently announced that you want to be the head coach of the Knicks. Tell me why.

New York, New York. Let's just start there.

Queensbridge finest. I, I don't know. I don't know if you Queensbridge finest though. I'm not the finest.

All right, all right, all right.

I'm not the finest. Yo, come on. I gotta get that to you, dog. I mean, I gotta get that to you over Nas. You loved it way more, love, in more states and more cities, you know. You got a loyal cult Like you, you've taken Queens everywhere.

That is true. Let me tell you how it is. So look, we look up to Nas, we look up to Jordan, right? Like Nas is like, imagine growing up and Nas is, he grew up right here. You know what I mean?

That's crazy.

It's insane, right? So, but Nas told me one time, he's like, yo, you the man. Like Nas did say, yeah, you know, you the, you the, I said, I said, what up, King? He said, nah, you the King. I said, hell nah, I ain't no King. You the King. Nah, get outta here with that. You the king. You the king of that. I call myself the Prince of Queensbridge.

There it is.

That's funny.

No, but you know, yeah, I want to be the head coach because one, since 1999, I've been trying to get to the Knicks. Baron, we was at the draft together.

I had the Knicks. Yes, I remember that. Oh man, I thought that was gonna happen, bro.

It was supposed to happen. I was ironing, Baron came into my room, I was ironing my suit. I was like, I'm gonna have more money this time.

I wanted to go to the draft crispy, so I ironed all my singles. I had about 35 singles.

So then we get to the draft.

Oh, thanks.

You came in my room, BD.

Facts. Oh my God.

So I get to the draft, I was projected to go top 10. You know, even if you look at the draft, you'll see I was projected to go top 10, but I was telling my agent, just let it get to 15, please. So I get to 15, I got the knit warmup under the practice jersey under my suit.

He was all ready, he was.

I was ready to get drafted, rip it open like, New York in the building, we coming, we about to win this title. That was the whole plan, right? They pass on me. The Bulls pick me next. I'm walking on stage looking at Mr. Topscott.

I'm like—

I got the Bulls jersey right there. I'm looking, I'm not even— I'm looking at Topscott like, yo, what the— David Stern right there.

Remember Boston Cop? Remember the Boston Suit? That's what he was on. Hey, Don, I cannot believe that.

I was crying.

I could not believe that.

I could, everybody, it was like everybody knew, everybody knew that was going to happen.

We was supposed to go to the city. We was supposed to go to the city. It was supposed to happen. I'm a New York legend. So many championships. So when it didn't happen, you know, I love the Bulls. I would go to the Bulls, go to Indiana. I was always thinking about going back to the Knicks, but now I'm building,, so, you know, a family in Indiana, which is like my second home now, right? So then almost in 2010, I almost went to the Knicks again, but Melo's available, all these other players, LeBron's here now. So it was like, it's priority now, right? Even though I was still a pretty good player, I, I thought they should have picked me up. I'm, I'm a New York City player, but it, it proved my point that if they were to pick me, imagine that defensive player of the year in New York. Imagine being the be— I, I was on the best team in the East, you know. Yes, you are. You know, he's on the best. So that could have been in New York. So then I go to New York at the end of my career. I'm like, this is great. Like I'm in New York. Like it was a blessing. Shout out to the Knicks though. I love the Knicks organization.

Yeah, Knicks is A1.

Shout out to the Knicks. Word. Shout out to all of them. So then at the end of my career, I knew I was gonna get into coaching. 'Cause when I was at the two, my last two years with the Lakers, I was, I would leave practice and go to my Palisades girls' practice. That's when I started coaching. I always wanted to coach. So I did 2 years at Palisades with Coach Draymond Green. We won 2 championships there. I was like an assistant coach. I do the G League when I retired, half a season part-time, because I was, um, I wasn't really into it fully when I, I needed a break from basketball.

Yeah.

And I wanted to spend time with my family too. I had a long career. So then what I did was I became an assistant coach, associate head coach at Cal State LA for 7 years. The last 7 7 years up until now at a— now, yeah, it's Division II, but I did try to get some opportunities, which is nobody's fault, but I just could not get on an NBA team. Now, I could have got on the Lakers, but the timing was— on the Lakers G League, but the timing was bad because I needed a break from basketball. So the timing was bad to go to the Lakers. So that window left, and I said— but I just kept coaching. I had some coaches that said they might call me, they might call me. I had no callback. You know, I was trying to get G League, I was trying to get here, get there, but no calls back. So, you know, in the old school, if I need to go into the gym and the gym is closed, I'll just go outside in the park and work on my game. That's what I've been doing over the last 7 years. I've been working on my craft. I'm on my shiznick right now when it comes to coaching.

Right.

'Cause I've been through the emotion. We took a team from the last 20 to 30 years before I got there, no NCAA appearances, to having a rough first year, second year got better, to making it NCAA 2 years in a row and being ranked in Division II, you know, in the top 10 in the preseason. Now granted, we had an injury last year, right? But that's coaching. And now, so I didn't expect this job to be available, by the way. I was actually, I was in, I was on an island, like literally at a coffee shop. I get the tweet, I'm like, ooh, I gotta get on it. But I'm ready for that moment. It's like Draymond. Yeah. If you pick, if you set a double screen, you know, call it the left corner double screen and they show too much, you're gonna slip. You're not thinking about that.

You slipping.

Boom. That's, that's, I saw the opportunity. I slipped. You know, I saw a shot. I took it. I gotta send that tweet out now because that's how ready I am. That's how ready I am. I'm ready for the press. You mentioned that earlier. Like, oh, these guys is not ready. I'm ready for the press. I wanted this opportunity. This is in the back of my head forever. So when you saw it, Then I said, I gotta create the momentum 'cause I don't have an agent. This is a one-man band.

You think, you think, you think you can coach Jalen Brunson and—

Yeah, man.

All right, so listen, say—

Absolutely.

The Knicks don't make a trade.

Right.

The Knicks don't do anything. They come back with the same team next year.

Right.

You think you can coach those guys to a championship?

I'm on my A-game right now, man. I'm on my A-game for sure. Like, and so let's just speak here from that perspective. This is not like saying I'm not in the talks. Nobody has called me, so I'm not, this is no pressure on the Knicks. I love the Knicks organization because I also do a lot of community service with the Knicks, but this is not to put any pressure on the Knicks. This is just talking as, you know, I'm honored to be on the show. For sure. Like when I look at, I'm a Pacers fan. I'm at the Pacers game today. 100%. I'm gonna be honest, transparent. But when I look at that game, it was little things. We talked about the little things. I don't want to give it all away because I want to save it for when I coach. —but we talked about not being ready, you know, or things they could have done differently. You look at the end of the fourth quarters, what happened. Even the bounce alone with Halliburton, that soft touch, even that one bounce goes the right way, we're talking it could have been a different series.

Absolutely.

In the garden. So just from that alone and that experience alone, they're going to get better because they learned they got their butt kicked this year. You know, at home. So they're gonna get better. And now, and then you get a chance to coach Brunson. Brunson is different. Brunson is not the same mentality as a lot of people. He went to the Garden. That's what Carmelo did. Carmelo went to the Garden when everybody else did not want to go to the Garden. Nobody wanted to follow because of that pressure. Baron, you know, you played in New York, BD. So from that perspective, I think I got the— I would have the team, we would be expected to win. Obviously you're gonna have a staff. It's not gonna just be Metta World Peace on the bench by himself, like, yeah, getting people's water. We'll have a dope staff, right? And then, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll compete and win the title. He's like, we don't have no other build. I only got one. I'm not, I'm not speaking like from a Draymond perspective. Like, Draymond got 4. Draymond could come on here and say, we gonna win for sure, we gonna win. I'm coming on here saying we gonna win. I got one. I'm coming on here saying, yeah, we coming to win the title. In New York City.

And that, and, and, and for you, that means more to you than just an NBA title because you're from New York.

Yeah. I've been trying to get to, I've been trying to get to New York for quite some time. The whole story's different. It's one, I have the experience, right? Cause I played in the league. I got—

And you're a champion.

Champion, many roles, did what I had to do. Then part two, Everywhere, you know, New York City, um, from UDC to Milbank to Minising to 145th, um, to 119th and 2nd to Kingdom to Rucker. These is championships there the whole time. These is MVPs and champs. So I got all— I got this history in New York City. When you combine that together, it's— it is a perfect timing to win a title. Now I'm gonna apologize to a few people. I'm gonna be legendary after this.

Sorry. So I ask you this question, as someone who's been in the NBA, following your footsteps, where we don't take bullshit, we not going for that, we willing to go to whatever lengths to show you we're not going for that.

Right, right.

What do you say to the guy who's like, "Yeah, but you can't keep your head because you gonna lose it, you not," like, even when I watch you play, you lose it, because that's what they say to me. What do you say to that guy?

Which I might call you, Draymond, and say, hey, what do you think? But when you coaching a knucklehead or immature person like Meta or whatever the case may be, I think it's connecting. You know, it's like I was in a different situation. That's why I love how you play, Draymond, because you never put your— you never was detrimental to your team. You was detrimental to yourself. At times, which is why you go to your DMs, you're gonna see some DMs from me, Draymond Green. You're gonna see 'em. But you was never detrimental to your team. I didn't have that, you know? And, and I, I learned a lot from you, by the way. I learned a lot from Stephen Curry. Um, not even talk, I don't even talk to Stephen, but I watch and analyze and learn at the end of my career. So, you know, from that, from that perspective, you know, you coaching emotion, right? We all emotional. We got big egos. We got big egos, right? I understand that. And for me, you know, certain things just don't stress me out.

So, so a guy like me playing against your team, you with the Knicks, you the head coach, and I'm out there trying to bully Carl Towns, like you not coming.

Man, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna take the—

I'm gonna bully you.

I'm gonna take the 13th man off the bench and I'm gonna put him in the game and I'm gonna say, you, go fuck with Draymond.

Oh, really?

Ball the shit outta Draymond Green in his chest and say something to him. Then I'm gonna give him an ISO against you and I don't care if you stop him, if they get a charge, I'm like, make an offensive foul against Draymond Green. Then the third time down, I'm gonna let him foul your ass again. And after that, you gonna lose your shit. Then we gonna sit him down. Now I'm gonna sit him down on the bench and you gonna talk to him.

All night! And guess what? Hey hey hey hey hey listen— Guess what? Guess what? Guess what BD? Now Ron Artest gotta go be the head coach of the New York Knicks. You see what I'm saying? Yeah yeah. That's all cool, that's all fine and dandy you got at me but now you gotta go be the head coach of the New York Knicks.

100%. I think without putting too much pressure, I'mma support the Knicks regardless. Let's say they didn't pick me, which I don't want that to happen. I'm not saying that people—

Even assistant coach though. Even assistant coach, man. Starting off somewhere, be—

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Don't mention that type of stuff. Don't throw that type of stuff. My fault, my fault.

Head coach, head coach, head coach.

Sage on D. Put some sage on. Be ready, baby. Be ready. And you want to know something? I know what New York City is like. Say we don't win, I'm gonna be the biggest fool in New York City, you understand? I don't— do I want that? I'm ready for it.

But they're gonna throw tomatoes at your ass. You're gonna walk down the street. What are you gonna do when y'all losing and you walk down the street and somebody hits you with a tomato?

I'm gonna turn the cheek. I'm gonna turn the other cheek.

Hey, you got to. Hey, you got to.

Listen, before we move on, I must say this. When I look at the New York Knicks team, I'm just gonna be 100% honest with the both of you because I got the utmost respect for the both of y'all and y'all are connected to the Knicks, the Knicks organization. And so I'm gonna be 100% honest with the both of y'all. I think when I look at that organization, does Tom Thibodeau help you win an NBA championship or not? I don't know. I'm not certain that he does. I'm not certain that he doesn't. But what I am certain of is that the culture of that organization is going to be proper. Mm-hmm. It's going to be the right way. They're going to go about things the right way. And so I've watched this team now, this organization, as someone who knows what it means to win championships and know what it means to look like championships, and to know what it should look like in order to win an NBA championship.

Excuse me.

Yeah. I've watched this team now, this organization, fire a guy who I think is— he goes about his business the right way. Will he win a championship for you? I don't know. But what I've watched is this team now go after 4 or 5 head coaches and be denied the opportunity to speak to them. And when I see that, I say, hmm, what I do know this, this team needs is someone who's going to be respected when— because see, here's what you got to understand. For me, as someone who's won 4 championships in this league, who would turn to your bench and say, all y'all fucking weak and your coach suck and I don't believe in y'all, because I'll say that to your bench and annihilate your bench and crush your bench, because all of that matters when you're talking about winning a championship. As someone who would say that, I would actually say that. Now, whereas I think it's different is, and this is just me being keeping it 100 with both of y'all because that's how I'm going to keep it. When I, when I take a step back, I look at you and I say, there's no chance I'd ever come to your bitch and say, 'all you motherfuckers weak. I'll beat all y'all. There's no chance y'all can win. There's no chance y'all can beat us.' Because when people have never won a championship, they don't understand the value of that thing, which is how important it is that the people that walk past your bench have respect for your bench. People don't understand that thing. And so when I look at the Knicks situation, I say, me personally, they need someone that commands this respect of a Tom Thibodeau. They need someone that commands the respect of the NBA, but they're going to think that with that team, that they were really a conference finals team. And I actually think they need someone like you to say, Maybe we weren't, maybe we were, but the respect that's gonna be had towards our bench is the respect that needs to be had towards the championship. And so my thing would be, what is one of us to do when you're viewed as metal world peace Ron Artest, the basketball player, and not metal world peace Ron Artest, the guy who's gonna command the respect on a bench that a bench must have in order to compete at a championship level. How do we beat that thing?

You mean how do we accomplish that? Like how do we, yeah, I mean for me—

And see, here's what I, I said how do we beat that thing because I said that, and this ain't you talking, this is me talking.

Yeah.

I said that because I feel like when I say beat that thing, that's also something we're up against in order to reach success. So that's why I said it that way. That's not you speaking.

Yeah, yeah.

That's me speaking. But how do we get past that thing to where me personally, as someone who's gone through this league and won championships, if I see you on the sideline, there's a different respect that I'm gonna have for someone else. How do we beat that thing of like, you're a current player, because in our world they use that against us. Like, you don't know what you're talking about, right? But in every other world, if you did that, you're the guy for the job. So how do we beat that thing?

Now, 100%, and, and it's true, you know, I feel like— and then a lot of the stuff that people worry about too, I don't necessarily worry about. I'm focused on strategy, what I'm gonna do when I get my opportunity. I know BD alluded to like an assistant coaching role. I'm actually open to a lot.

I'll be your assistant coach, bro. You be the head coach, I'll be the assistant coach. Ooh.

BD, I might have to call you.

Come on, come on, come on, man. I'll be your assistant coach.

You know how much pressure it is being in New York, and this is not like to scare anybody. I'm gonna support anybody who gets a job, but for me to come out like this and talk about it. And the fans, you know, some fans already like, hell no, I'm going back. I'm like really taking that head on. Like, I'm not afraid of this moment.

You built for it. You built for it. Yeah, you, you born to do this. You know it. You, you're a great person. You're great with people. You know, you, you embody, you embody New York basketball. And you embody basketball too. For somebody, you know, as a superstar, all-star, seeing your trajectory from kids to seeing you now, like you've mastered all levels of a player and you've won at the highest level as an integral part of a team. Where you had to be a thinker, where you had to be an adjuster, where you had to think strategy, where you had to be a disruptor to complement superstars. So you know what a superstar needs. You know what a rising star needs, right? You know what a young and upcoming dude who's looking for that motivation or that opportunity, like you can relate on so many levels because— Yeah. You've played all those different roles in your journey. And I think a lot of that was by choice, right? Being a superstar and then deciding, all right, well, I'm gonna go over here and be the ultimate role player. And then to work your system like that. So I commend you, bro. If you need an assistant coach, I'm there. Let's go. Let's go. We gonna campaign. Matter of a Knicks coach, you got my vote.

Hey, here's the thing though. Here's the thing that I'll say. I don't even think it's a campaign situation. I'll just tell you from what I see in watching the thing is they had a head coach that requires and demands respect, and he's brilliant in what he knows. He is a defensive guru. So much so that I'ma just keep it G with y'all. I'm sorry if this is the team you're gonna be coaching in 2 months, but to go to the conference finals with Draymond Green and Carl Towns on the defensive end, I ain't talking about what, what Draymond Green and Carl Towns do. And who they are as players. I'm just talking about over the course of an NBA season, Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns are two people over the course of that season that you say, we can pick on them. Mm-hmm. To go to the conference finals with two guys that you can pick on, I think that's brilliant. Because it's so hard to align all the schedules to do this thing, to do that thing, blah, blah, blah. I actually like that talent. It actually has to align with this time period. Like, you can like a talent, but if it don't align with that time period, it actually doesn't work. And so when I take a step back, I look at it and it actually aligns. And so for me, when I take a step back and I look at it, I'm like, yo, the Knicks requested Jason Kidd, the Knicks requested Ime Udoka, the Knicks requested Chris Finch, and I don't give a fuck about the Knicks, how y'all do. So there's one more person.

Oh.

That they just recommended.— it didn't matter.

Quinn Snyder.

Yeah, Quinn Snyder, right? So, so they— it didn't matter. So when I look at the Knicks and I take a step back, I'm like, yo, they have to have someone as the coach that is respected amongst the players that they play, but that's also respected amongst the players that they have on their team, or they're going to make a big mistake. And so when I look at it And I'll be honest with you, when you threw your name in the hat, I'm like, I never knew Meadow was going to coach. But when I look at their situation, they need someone like you.

And a lot of people didn't know I was coaching, but some people do. And just to go on the record, I was trying to coach many times. It's just bad timing, and I can't force someone to put me on their staff, and I can't force someone to, you know, make me the coach in the G League or even WNBA. I was trying everything, but what I did—

They gotta give you the interview, bro.

Yeah, yeah, I couldn't even get an interview from my alma mater. But what I did do was I was coaching. I wasn't just sitting home waiting. I was coaching. And you're talking about 6 AM practices, so what time am I up every day? At 5 AM. That's way harder. There's nothing, you know, put anybody down, but that's way harder to not get paid as a volunteer coach, taking the job serious, you know? And we don't have a budget at Division II basketball. We gotta go on Southwest. I'm on Southwest. We driving vans and we— Hanging it out. This is for 6 years. This is what people don't realize. I saw Charles the other day and I was like, Charles, I need you to advocate for me. Charles said, you don't even coach. I said, Charles, that's not true, man. That's not true. I coach. I coach all the time, man. I'm coaching every day. I'm on, I mean, you can catch me on Division II TV. You can, and actually we played Stanford this year and the Stanford coach, you know, Division I powerhouse, right? So we played them in the preseason. She was like, this team is very well prepared. And that's a video. Now she didn't say our names, but that's our team. And yeah, it's girls and not guys, but it don't matter because you're coaching You're trying to get a team to beat another team.

Yeah, we coaching basketball.

Coaching basketball.

Exactly. Nah, listen, I think in order for, again, this is just me talking to y'all and I guess it goes out to the world, but I don't think that's a championship team. But I think in order for that team to compete at that level, they have to have someone like you or it just doesn't work. Like, it'll never work. Like, you have to— in order to compete at the level of conference championships in the NBA, you have to have generational talents. And I think when it comes to that, if you don't have a generational talent, for instance, the Indiana Pacers, I don't think they have generational talent. Yeah. Talents. However, if when it comes to that, you must have people that are respected at that level. And if you don't have people that are respected at that level and you just have generational talents, they become talents that in 10 years, 20 years, we look back from now, we're like, man, that person was supposed to be that good. That person was supposed to be that good. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think if you don't, these people aren't in search of the generational talents. But I will say, I think that Knicks team needs someone like you. Because if they think they're gonna get someone who's like, I'm X's and O's, I'm an X and O guy, we're gonna make this team do that, it's wrong. It don't work. They're not gonna win. Gonna lose in the first round. And that's just that. So I pray to God that you can be viewed as what you should be viewed at, as, and, and as far as this job goes, because we're the only industry in the world that you can have extreme experience at something, even more experience than the person that's up against you, and the experience is used against you. So I think the Knicks need someone like you. I think when I look at it, someone that I played against that think the game, I don't think players think the game anymore. I just, that's just my opinion. But as someone who think the game, had to think the game, and what shows you had to think the game is you were great at scoring. That's great. That didn't make you become who you became. What made you become who you actually became was taking that backseat and winning the championship. And to see someone do that and know that someone's willing to sacrifice all that they've been in their entire life to do that thing, that's the person that I want as my coach.

Man, I appreciate it, man. I had to throw my name in the hat. I ain't mean to, you know, ruffle any feathers, but I, you know, you don't get a lot of opportunities in life. And you know what's so crazy about it? I threw my name in the hat and look where we at today. Yeah. It's— this, you know, so hopefully this thing happens and I'm gonna be so ready, you know, to perform and confide. No doubt.

Can I ask you a question?

Yes sir, please do!

What the hell made you change your name from Ryan Arces to Metal World Peace? Yo... Oh wait, before you answer because I— As a fan watching the game in Saginaw, Michigan, I'm like, what the hell?

Oh yeah.

What the hell made you change your name?

Yo, I needed to evolve. My career was wild, Draymond Green. It was just like, couldn't, you know, when I was playing, two of my siblings was in a psych ward, right? So you can't, there's nothing you could do. I could control everything else. Right. In life, I can help people, but I can't get my siblings off medication. Right. So that's one. Then you, when you pile on, like not being able to, you know, I didn't necessarily have the skillset to raise a family. Now I had my first child at 16. Right. So, so then now you enter in the league as a father, you know, I was, I was a father, you know, literally at 19 years old. And so I didn't know how to navigate that. And then another thing was the alcohol. Like when I was drinking, I didn't realize how much of a depressant it was. So when you got all that stress and things going on, if you don't understand that alcohol's a depressant and you got a motor, it just works against you, man. So then at some point, you know, as I, when I had, when I stopped drinking, I did for a long time in my career, not a sip of alcohol. Wow. And when I stopped and I reflected, I'm like, damn, kind of embarrassing, you know? I'm like, yeah, that's kind of— You know what I mean? Like a lot of stuff that was happening. So I was trying to evolve and move forward because everything's already out there. But I know, I knew what I wanted to go in my life. So I said, you know, I'm gonna change my name. I'm gonna do my thing because I gotta block out everybody. Because, you know, you know, from, from my perspective, like people were Things was coming from everywhere, media, fans, all the time, all the time, online, everything. But I needed to really focus to get here where I'm at today. So I think the name change was important to me.

So now today you go as Ron Artest Sanford.

No, no. So I kept Metta. My wife, her name is Sanford. So when I got married, I changed my last name to her last name. So I was Meta World Peace, but it's Meta Sandiford, and she took our test. So it's Meta Sandiford on our test. So that's the only reason why that exists, because, you know, she demanded that I change my name to her last name.

That's good.

No, you, no, what you talking about though?

Give her Defensive Player of the Year.

You, you gotta tell me me more about that.

She get Defensive Player of the Year. Fact. Locked him up.

Time out. Locked, locked him up.

Time out. Locked him up. You got locked.

Yeah.

That's some lockdown defense right there.

I think that would feel better for the Pistons.

But timeout though.

He runs.

You again, having the mental that we know, which is like, I'm a dog, I'll destroy you. How'd you decide? How'd you decide that that was gonna be the thing? Because it's total opposite of the way we know, right? Like the woman take the man last name. Right, right. Right? Like that's total opposite of what we know. How? Yeah. Come on, you gotta explain to me that. You know what's crazy?

Like we was in a courtroom and I was like, ain't no way, I'm a man. I am never gonna take my name to your last name. I said, I ain't doing it. We was in the courtroom. Room. And then, uh, you know, she's like, nah, you're gonna do it. I'm like, no, I ain't. I'm a, I'm a Metta World Peace. You tripping. I said, all right, I'll change it. I'm signing the paper like, this is some BS. But it was worth it, man.

It was worth it. That's too funny.

Like, my stage name is Metta World Peace. I be telling people, yo, please call me Metta World Peace, yo. You know, the other name is like, you know, it's good, but Meta World Peace is my name, my stage name.

So what is your actual name today?

Yeah, we share last name, Meta, her last name is Sandiford, and Artis. So we brought back Artis, Meta Sandiford Artis. That's my, yeah, that's what I changed it to when I got married.

That's fire, that's fire. By the way, just so we're clear, Only you could do that and get away with it. No one can get away with that.

Yo, when you, when you put Metta Sanders before Artis, I text my people, I say, yo, can you have Draymond Green change it back to Metta World Peace? I need my stage name out there. I'm a— yeah. But it was, you know, it was worth it, man. It was actually, my daughter did the same thing when she got married. She kept Artis and she tried to get her husband. Her husband was like, nah, I'm keeping my last name. You could keep yours.

So. A little bit more of a man than me. That's fire, man. Listen, I'm so thankful.

Learn something new.

I'm so thankful, and I know BD, I speak for the both of us, but I'm gonna speak for myself. I'm so thankful for you coming on this show because I personally, and BD is gonna speak on his behalf, But I personally, I don't respect people because you played in the NBA. Like, that just don't work for me. And I know people judge me for that. People are like, "Oh, that's a legend. You should do this." That just don't work for me. My mom taught me people earn respect. And the people that have earned respect from me, they earn my respect. And that's just that. Whether the rest of the world respects you or think about you in the same way I think about you has absolutely nothing to do with me. I can only speak for myself. And when I tell you, you coming on this show and speaking the way you spoke and being who you've been and not being afraid to say what you wanted to say is so uplifting to me because I feel like that's how I've gone about my whole career. Mm-hmm. And to know that I could still be in the position to be the Knicks head coach and just being Draymond Green, by watching you, Ron Artest, just be Ron Artest and be in position and the best candidate to be the head coach of the Knicks because you've done it, you've studied it, you've lived it. You're not afraid to tell a guy you did this wrong because we see that all the time in the NBA where Someone don't want to lose their job. They protect their job and won't tell that guy you did something wrong. When I take a step back and I look at that and to have this conversation with you, I'm so extremely thankful for you coming on the show, for you having this time with us. And I just want these people to know, by the way, we can talk so much more basketball, but BD and I was just so much more interested in the person. Yeah. So we can do that any day. But I'm so thankful for you coming on the show. I appreciate you. I think you should be the next head coach because they're gonna hire someone that they think is a coach and they gonna lose. So I'm just throwing it out there.

Appreciate you coming on the show. Appreciate you, big dog. My brother for life. Man, we got me and this dude got, we got drafted together. We was in the McDonald's All-American together. We was in Nike camp together. Boston Shootout, first All-Star game together.

High school USA team.

Man, come on, USA team together. Man, you know how I feel about you, bro. I just, what, I look up to you. I love your journey. I'm glad I've been a part of your journey. I'm glad I get to be an up-close fan of your journey. And more importantly, I'm just a fan of what you've done after your career, right? To see you, you know, continue to evolve, into the businessman you are now, the coach. The basketball mind has always been there. Now you claiming and going after coaching. I just fully support you, man, because everything you do, you put your heart and soul into it and it turns out great. And, and, and you are, you are basketball, right? You are the passion, you are the heart, you are the internet intellect. And I'm just thankful for you to be on the show. I'll probably see you next week anyway, though. You've been dodging me. You've been dodging me lately, bro. He been dodging me. Wait, and now he told me he live in Indiana, so I'm like, oh, you know, usually my dog come around the finals, we have our little finals party.

Are you at the crib? You at the Finals house?

Yeah, I'm at the Finals house.

Draymond, did he visit that already?

I have— yeah, Drake, Drake, Drake did, uh Draymond Green, uh, at the studio.

I've been in the studio for sure.

Yeah.

That's incredible, man. I love that spot, man. BD, you, you just innovative, man. You've been inspiring us also on the business side, entrepreneurship side. You know what I mean? And to see like what y'all doing and, and Draymond, I've been watching you. I actually reached out to you plenty of times. You'll see your DMs, but just watching how you, you know, cause I need to learn too. You know, we, we retire, we be, some players be like lost. We've seen this happen to players many times. All the time. You know, Glenn, look at my boy, our big baby. Like, it's not a good look. And we gotta be supportive. And I was not afraid to look up to you guys. I was, I wasn't afraid to watch LeBron, somebody I competed against, to watch you, how you, how you, how you're a winner. It, it taught me how to be a winner. You understand timeline, we retire, we don't have a skillset. How did I gain a skillset? Well, I look at people like you and Stephen Curry and LeBron and, and then talking to Beatty, going to Beatty's office and asking questions. I don't care if I sound dumb, but you guys taught me so much, especially that Warrior team. Just watching how y'all connect, you know, and watching how y'all play together. 'Cause I didn't have that concept. Even when I was in Indiana, it was more of a selfish thing.

Yeah.

I just didn't have the concept that y'all had, but I was able to get it at the end, even though it was a little too late for that Indiana team, but it wasn't too late for this new team in life. You know what I mean? So I appreciate you, like, you know, and I don't speak to Steph at all, but you know, I learned, I watched the game, 'cause that's the only reference point we have. We don't have a business background. All we can do is watch the game and I can go from what I've learned. But when I watch people perfect the game, I can watch that and add that to my life and add it to my business and how I wanna move forward. So, and, and then to see that evolve to the restaurant and all this stuff, I'm like, I was so happy to see that. And you know, thanks for the compliment and thanks for having me on your show.

Brother, we appreciate you more than you know, man. I tell you again and again, I just don't respect people because they played in the NBA. Like some people just have talent and they get to the NBA, but the utmost respect. You the real one. So thankful.

The realest.

Appreciate you.

My guy. By the way, to the rest of y'all out there, we appreciate y'all. I'm honored to be with two legends. That's a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green Show with the legend Baron Davis and the legend Metta World Peace. Until next time, that's a wrap.

We out, peace.

Peace.

All right, yo, thanks for watching.