In this round‑table conversation hosted by Draymond Green, former NBA star Penny Hardaway (joined by Baron Davis) recounts vivid personal anecdotes that illuminate key moments in NBA history and his own career. He describes Michael Jordan’s 1995 comeback wearing jersey #45, the mid‑series jersey switch back to #23, and the intense playoff battles that followed, highlighting the league’s looser rules at the time. Hardaway then breaks down the GOAT conversation, categorizing LeBron James as the statistical powerhouse, Michael Jordan as the undefeated‑finals champion with elite defense, and Kobe Bryant as the fearless imitator of Jordan’s skill set. The discussion shifts to Magic Johnson’s profound influence on Hardaway’s playing style, emphasizing Johnson’s versatility and basketball IQ. Hardaway reflects on the infamous 1993 draft‑night trade that sent Chris Webber to Golden State in exchange for his rights, sharing his feelings about the move and speculating on an alternate career path with the Warriors. He also recounts his pre‑season workouts with Golden State, including a memorable one‑on‑one showdown with Tim Hardaway in front of Nelly, illustrating the informal, competitive atmosphere of the era. Throughout, the conversation blends nostalgic storytelling with analytical perspectives on player legacies, draft dynamics, and the evolution of the game.
Chapters
So you enter the league in the East, obviously going in with Shaq, and Michael Jordan is dominating the league. What did you, what comes to mind for you about that first matchup? Like BD, his first matchup with you is in UCLA gym, right? Like what was your first matchup with MJ and what comes to mind for you from that matchup?
Yeah, what was so crazy is he was retired at first. He came back wearing the 45.
Oh wow.
That year, yeah. So we was the dudes in the league. So when MJ came back, I said, oh, okay. All right, all right, I know what I gotta do because at this point, this is my second year. I'm ready, I'm rolling. And he came back and he came back with a vengeance. But that first matchup was, I had to let him know right away because he was that dude.
Come on now.
He was the dude. So I was like, all right, I took him right to the post, did what I normally did and was trying to, I was trying to put fear in him guarding me because I knew what he was gonna try to do to me on the other end. So I was trying to hit first.
That's amazing, man.
Trash talk.
Yeah, that was a battle. I mean, you know what I mean? Mike coming back, 45, like when you saw Mike in 45, was you like, oh, he ain't in the 23, you know what I mean? So.
I didn't recognize the 45. I knew who that was. I was like, he's gonna be a little rusty. But this is MJ to just be able to come back mid-season, bro.
That's crazy.
And he had 55 against the Knicks. He had double nickels against the Knicks in the garden. That's the second game. Right? Right. So I'm like, dog, all right, cool. So when he got into the building, it was 45. We was like, you know, it's MJ.
But it's 45.
But it's 45. But man, we played them in the playoffs right after that. And man, Nick Anderson stole his ball and we won the game off a steal. He came back the next game in a 23 and peace. I was like, oh.
Oh, he switched. Oh, he switched to the next jersey.
Oh, wow.
He switched his jersey. He said, I'm outta the 45 and work. When he took his jersey off, everybody saw 23 and he looked in the crowd.
That's crazy.
He beat us that game. Game 2.
To even have the NBA approve that is crazy in itself, man.
There wasn't no rules like that. And that's MJ. He didn't care what David Stern, rest in peace, was saying, bro. I was like, I'm rocking this. Oh my God. Like y'all got all these rules today.
That's savage.
None of that was going on back then, bro.
Hey, that's savage. In mid-series, he changed his number. Let me get back.
That's insane.
Y'all wind up getting them though.
They won game 2 and we went to Chicago and won games 3 and 4.
Yeah, y'all wind up getting them. That was an epic moment. You know what I mean? I felt like that kind of put you in a whole nother stratosphere.
Oh no, it did. Big Mike is what they call him in Chicago. When you beat Big Mike, then you know you're doing something.
Big Mike.
Big Mike.
You played against MJ, you played against Kobe, and I think you played against Bron, right?
Against who? Bron? Y'all played Bron and I played against Magic.
Yep.
Yep. Wow.
Yep.
I played against Magic.
He came back for a couple games and then he went right back out. He didn't even stay. He came back. During that season. So I got a chance to play against all those dudes, man.
Wow.
So tell me, like, those guys, a lot of people talk about those guys being in the GOAT conversation. How do you look at that? Like, what do you, if you say, ah, this guy's the best or that guy's the best, how do you look at the whole GOAT conversation?
Because I view it differently, right? Because LeBron got the numbers. You got MJ who had this innate, way of just hitting 50 whenever he wanted and was crazy with it and winning championships, undefeated in finals. And then you had Kobe who mimicked MJ, who had IQ, who had toughness, and who had shot-making ability and won championships himself. So I put them in those categories. So LeBron is the numbers guy. He, he got the numbers. Like that's the guy. He's, you gotta give him that. MJ being a guy undefeated in the finals, a guy that was, you know, first team all defense. I can't remember how many times. Yeah. I mean, come on, man. That's, that's the GOAT to me.
Yeah, for sure.
And then Kobe being a fearless, fearless warrior and champion who mimicked his game after MJ. It's like you gotta, you gotta have all of them 1A, 1A, 1A, but in their own different, in their own different ways to me. And I'm not being political on that because LeBron is a power forward pretty much, you know, Kobe's 2 guard, MJ's 2 guard, but Kobe mimicked his game after MJ and Kobe did a hell of a job mimicking that dude.
He did.
He did it. He was a dog. He did it. Rest in peace to Kobe. He did it. —hell of a job carbon copying MJ. That's a fact. It's like that, it's almost like you're trying to carbon copy the impossible. You know what I'm saying?
Fact.
Yeah. And to actually do it.
So yeah, yeah. And to do it. So what Kobe had, what MJ had over Kobe was so different. Or, or I should say Kobe's approach versus MJ's approach. MJ was like, I'm giving all y'all at 70. Like if I go to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, he did that 50, 50, 50. I don't know how, 2 or 3 times in his career. Think about going 50, 50, 50, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas. What Kobe did when he had problems was I'm marking Penny Hardaway down on my list. I'm, I'm marking Baron Davis down on my list. I'm putting Gary Payton on my list. I'm putting all these top dudes on my list and I'm gonna knock 'em off one by one. MJ never sees, he said, I ain't doing none of that. I'm just coming in and I'm killing y'all. So Kobe had to start off a little slower. Rookie year, he kind of struggled a little bit. Beating you in LA. And then he just, you knew he was coming though. But he made this list of names and boy did he scratch off off. Yeah, he did. He scratched all the names off that list. Yeah, he did.
And then man, I want you to talk about, 'cause to me, like, you see Magic Johnson and then the next iteration of somebody that's 6'8", 6'7" with dimes, offensive talent, leadership, like the next version was Penny Hardaway. How much of an influence did like Magic have? You know what I mean? Or who are some of the people that you pattern your game after you know, coming up?
Yeah, it was strictly Magic for me because how he approached the game. You talking about a fierce competitor, talking about somebody that was happy to make everybody else better. Mm-hmm. You talk about somebody that was gonna win at all costs. Uh, champion did whatever it took, played 5 spots in the NBA. Who can say one guy played 5 spots like that throughout his career? And he was a PG, 6'9" PG. He wasn't the most athletic, He wasn't the most, the fastest dude. He was getting picked up 94 feet by guys. He understood IQ on how to get the ball into position when somebody bigger played him. He had all the shots. He developed the sky hook. He posted up. He made, I mean, it was just ridiculous. So for me, it was Magic all the way, man. Just watching him.
Amazing. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to report a trade. Orlando. Has traded the draft rights to Chris Webber to Golden State in exchange for the draft rights to Anthony Hardaway and 3 future first-round draft picks.
All right, you were traded to the Orlando Magic for Chris Webber on draft night. One, how did you feel about the trade? But the biggest question, if you were not traded, you would've had a career at Golden State. What do you think would've unfolded as a Golden State Warrior?
Yeah, first I'll talk about being traded for my man C-Webb. Shout out to C-Webb. He, it was something that I auditioned for because I was doing the movie Blue Chips in LA with Shaq.
Yeah.
And, I was with him every single day. And the blessing behind that movie is that we played real basketball. I don't think I took 5 shots the whole summer. I threw him the ball every time like, big brother, this what I'm gonna be doing for you the whole year. I was being smart about it because I wanted to be in Orlando.
Yeah.
And when I went to work out for Orlando, I scrimmaged with the team and took care of business. So I did really well there and I kind of, Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson were there and I'm doing the same thing, getting them shots, getting them shots. And then whenever I had to, kind of take over. I kind of took over, but really I wanted to let them know if I come here, you know, I'm, I'm gonna be that guy to find y'all and get y'all the ball. Now the Golden State side of it with Nelly and, uh, and Tim Hardaway would've been vicious as well because of being in the backcourt, man. The Texas Two-Step, Tim Hardaway was unreal, bro. So we played one-on-one inside the arena with Nelly in the, in the crowd watching me and Tim play one-on-one on my video.
Wow.
And I worked out for them. And we played like 5 games. It was just knockdown drag out. So he said, I'm gonna bring the goon in on you and he gonna tell me if you can hoop with us or not. And Tim came. Now Nelly put Tim on me. He was like, you gotta go get him. Like basically he brought Tim like, I'm calling him up. So we played one-on-one and it was nobody in there but me, Nelly, and Tim.
Oh.
Man.
Straight one-on-one in front of Nelly. Nelly sitting in the crowd just chilling. And me and Timmy going at it and I knew I had to go at him. But Tim, man, much respect to Tim.
Oh my gosh.
Did you cook him?
You know what? I can't remember what the scores was honestly. I gotta ask Tim about that. But I know, hey, if we played 5 games, I ain't lose all 5 games. You know, he was a murderer in the league at the time too, man.
Yes, he was. Man, that's just crazy though. I think about like my draft process. And like for you to say my draft workout, I played against the team. Like with all these rules and shit today, you, you could never do that. But that's, but like what better audition than to see you get out?
Exactly.
Like what better audition than to see you get out there with the guys and play like.
Yeah. Yeah. They had their best defender. They had their best defender on me who was Anthony Bowie at the time. That's the guy that they put on Mitch Richmond.
Right. Yeah.
MJ. All these guys, Reggie.
He was cooking him. Yeah.
That's my dog, boy.
That's my dog, shout out to Bowie. He was in the machine.
