Nick Nurse on coaching Joel Embiid & 76ers, Kawhi's Raptors title & departure | Draymond Green Show

Welcome to the brand new Draymond Green Show YouTube channel. Hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any of our content. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. It is an honor to have this next guest, an NBA champion. And so I've been hiding this hand because I have my 2022 championship ring on. And the reason I have my 2022 championship ring on is because the only thing that I have over this guy that I could kind of throw in his face is I won a championship more recently than he did. However, he was just so kind to throw in my face. He and Jackson, you know, Jackson's riding a high. He's a Boston Celtics fan. Not sure if he told you that, but he's riding a high as a Celtics fan right now. And so he wants to throw that in my face. It's good. Well, he can take this, but also Coach Nurse, who I'm honored to have Coach Nurse, NBA champion. He beat me. Yeah. In an NBA Finals. So I'm gonna just get rid of this because it's embarrassing and kind of ruined my finals slate. However, like I said, it is an honor to have this next guest, NBA champion, 2-time D-League champion, Coach Nick Nurse. What's going on, my friend?

Hey, thanks for having me on, man. I've been looking forward to it. I listen to you and watch you a lot, so it's an honor to be on. So thanks for having me.

Oh man, thank you. I appreciate it. First off, I mean, let's just get right into it. I think, you know, I've watched some coaches come through the G League in specific through our G League program. You've had Seth Cooper, you've had Aaron Miles come through and move on. Nick Kerr right now is doing a great job there. Chris Weems on our staff. And I know your journey went through the D League, starting with championships in the D League. Can you talk to me about that process and, and getting the reps in the D-League and then obviously getting your opportunity and becoming a head coach of the Toronto Raptors first.

We're this close to crowning an NBA champion. I like the Celtics, by the way, in 6. Jaylen Brown's gonna be my MVP and I love the Celtics in game 1. But sign up, 90 seconds, put in the code COLIN, C-O-L-I-N, DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. If you're a new customer, bet $5, that's it. Just bet $5 and you'll get $150 instantly in bonus bets. The code COLIN, C-O-L-I-N, shows them that you're a new customer to get $150 in bonus bets only on DraftKings. The crown is yours. I'm leaning Celtics in 6, baby. Yeah. So listen, you know, I've spent a lot of years— I spent about 20 years coaching before I got to the NBA. I was Small college, I went to England of all places for about 10, 11 years, then finally landed in the D-League. And, you know, when anybody ever asks me about getting into coaching, I always say, "Get head coaching experience as fast as you can," 'cause that is, like you said, the reps of getting in front of people, showing film, making substitutions, calling timeouts. You know, that's the real deal, no matter really whatever level you're at.

Yeah.

You're having to make a lot of decisions.

Absolutely. And just tracing back a little bit, can you talk to me about the easiest head coaching job that you had where you was assistant for 4 days and cashed out on $175 grand? Can you talk to me? I'm looking for a gig like that, by the way.

Best job I ever had. So I was coaching at the Iowa Energy in the D-League. A guy I played college basketball with at Northern Iowa, Greg McDermott, was then the coach at Iowa State. He offered me a job to be his associate head coach. I went up there on a Thursday. I literally got on a plane on Friday and went to Europe to recruit. And on Sunday, he called me. I was in London getting ready to go to Greece. He called me and said, "Hey, I'm going to Creighton." And he said, "You wanna come with me to Creighton?" And I was like, "Whoa, whoa, what just happened here? We just moved up, you know, we just started this job." And I said, "Let me come home and think about that for a minute." I ended up going. Thank goodness, you know, all things happen for a reason. I end up going back to the Iowa Energy after 4 days at Iowa State. And that was when we won our first D-League championship. And then we went rolling from there a little bit.

That's incredible. When you were in the Iowa Energy, I've been trying to trace your path to the Raptors. When you were with the Iowa Energy, were they the affiliate of the Raptors at that time? Like, what was your, how did you? Hey, what was your path to the Raptors?

No, so the path to the, so I coached the Iowa Energy, then I went to Rio Grande Valley as the head G League coach, which was the Rockets team. And literally they just, they just kind of called me up outta nowhere. I think they'd seen the team play. We had a couple, I think we had Glenn Rice Jr. who was in the draft. He was one of the first guys in the D League that was in the draft. And a lot of people were coming to watch him. And it was actually Brian Colangelo who saw the team play and just said, "Let's talk to this guy." And then they hired me as an assistant after a little, a lot of changeover and turmoil. It was, it was Masai came in and Dwyane Casey hired me and all that stuff. But we made it through that little change of management to get the start in Toronto.

What was it like as an assistant coach during those years where you guys were having absolutely incredible seasons in Toronto. And then you kind of just run into a buzzsaw in LeBron James in the East. Like what were those years like kind of ultimately hoping to get over that hope? Did you, I mean, hoping to get over that hump, did you guys like not, I mean, I don't wanna say not believe because I think anytime we're in the locker room you wanna believe, but did you guys really believe that that team could have gotten over the hump and like, What, like, what was it, um, with that squad?

Yeah, like, so in general, it was awesome. It was awesome because we'd kind of— I think, now don't quote me on the exact numbers, but I think the year, the year before we started in Toronto was like a 32-win season. So the first year we went to 48 and got in the playoffs, which they hadn't been in, and I don't know, again, 10 years, maybe 11, 12 years. And so the buzz was like, oh my God, they're a playoff team. And then we kind of 155, maybe 158. And like you said, we'd run into— everybody was getting chopped down by LeBron and the Cavs then, right? So it was super exciting. And then there was always that frustration of how can we figure out how to beat this guy? And then the last time around, I think we had the home court advantage and we had a higher seed and they hadn't really played that well that year. We thought we, we really did think we could, we could get over the hump. And it was just like one of those, one of those, I think game 1, Draymond, it was like we had a layup and it missed and we had a tip in. And like, if we would've just, one of those bounce in, we win game 1 and maybe the whole series. And that was like a crushing, like last second defeat. And then that was it. And then just never could get, I mean, you know how tough it is to get past any of his teams.

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, obviously we played against those guys for what, 4 straight years, 5 straight years?

15 something.

Yeah, 5 straight years. And it's crazy because I was watching the NBA Finals. I was watching NBA Finals a few days ago with Bron, and we were actually sitting there talking about like the different things when you watched the last couple finals. That teams kind of get away with. Like, it was tougher to get away with then. And I don't wanna sound like one of those old ass dudes who like, "In my day, they couldn't." But like, I feel like when we were like in the finals against you guys, against LeBron, like there was some guys that just couldn't get on the floor. Like if you were just a shooter, right? And you couldn't put the ball on the floor, you didn't have size, couldn't escape. Like you couldn't get on the floor. And it's like now all of a sudden teams aren't capable of necessarily like taking a guy out, you know, like the guys that you knew you had to take out who's like, he's a shooter. We did it to Kyle Korver when they were, when he was with the Cavs. It's like you take those guys out. Now you don't see that as much. Do you think that's actually a byproduct of the new NBA bylaws or salary cap where you can't, quite build out the teams how you would? Because I've been seeing that and when I look at it, I'm just like, man, like that stuff never would've flew in the NBA Finals even 4 years ago.

Yeah, I don't know. I think things change so fast and even, even it seems to me they change more rapidly sometimes during the season and everything. I just think that you're always adjusting to the style of play or the physicality that's being allowed or not being allowed. It seems to be, you know, like all over the place at times. So I think, I think, you know, and again, I think some series guys look great, those kind of guys you're talking about, and then some series they don't too. And all of a sudden you're like, what happened? You know, those guys were, those guys were playing great last series, you know, what happened to them? And, and you're right, they think, I think scouting different, different schemes, different personnel, some matchups are just bad for certain players, right?

Uh, that is, that is 100% correct. I think when you When you get further and further into these playoffs, playoff runs, matchups are everything. Like I think, I think this year in the playoffs showed that more than ever, right? Like the Lakers and the Nuggets. Lakers probably could have won the series. Like the series easily could have been flipped, but a tough matchup for the Lakers. Denver moves on to Minnesota. They lose to Minnesota. Whereas the Lakers probably were a better matchup than Minnesota, right? And I think, I think we're starting to see that even more now where matchups, who you match up with is, is more important than ever. Do you feel that way?

I think, I think it's, it's really important in the playoffs. And here's the thing, here's the thing I dislike about how I feel today about a 3, it's 3-0, it's 3-0, right? And it feels like, it feels like they've all been 40-point blowouts, but that isn't true. I mean, it was a 2-point game with a minute to go last night. Game 2 should have been a 3-point game with a minute to go if we get that layup or circumstances around that layup are a little different. So those, like, that's where Dallas has gotten everybody to and then figured out a way to beat 'em.

Absolutely.

And all of a sudden it's 3-0 and you're like, well, it's over now. Nobody's come back from 3-0. But I hope they do. I'm just like you and everybody else. We want to see more games, right? We don't want it to be over quite yet.

Absolutely. Definitely looking for, I would love to watch more basketball. And before we get deeper into the basketball talk, It is an honor to have an NBA head coach, an NBA champion on the Draymond Green Show. Very thankful. But before we get further to the basketball talk, can you join us to celebrate the grand opening of Carroll National Golf and Music? Can you talk to me more about that? August 15th to 16th.

Yeah.

Can you talk to me more about your golf?

I appreciate that. You like giving me the shout out. So I'm from a little small town in Iowa, about 10,000 people called Carroll. Golf course I grew up on a little bit as a kid. And it was kind of at its end and we just trying to save it. So me and some guys are turning it around, putting it together, grand opening coming up on August 15th and 16th. But mainly it's to raise money for the foundation as well, Draymond.

Okay.

I've been, once we won that championship, thought I was given an amazing platform to go out and raise money. Did a bunch in Toronto. Now we're doing some here in Philly, doing some in Iowa and just, trying to pump that money back to kids in the areas of sports, music, and literacy. I'm a big pseudo musician. I love music. I'm a music appreciator, that's for sure. And I like helping kids buy 'em instruments, buy 'em lessons, get 'em up on stage. Anything we can do in music and in sports and try to build their self-esteem. People that wouldn't normally get such good chances, you know?

That's absolutely incredible. I respect that. I think anytime, especially as a music fan, I too love music, appreciate music. And I think anytime you get the opportunity to combine those two is always great. Like they're so synonymous. They live, you know, music and sport, it's one and the same. I always say every musician wanna be a basketball player. Every basketball player wanna be a rapper or musician.

Yeah.

And that's just kind of the way the cookie crumbles, you know?

I was about ready to ask you that. I was wondering if you go through that too. Like I got a lot of musician friends and they all wanna talk. I'm trying to stop them from asking me basketball questions and it just keeps on coming. It's really funny.

Absolutely. It's like the interest rate is through the roof, you know?

Yeah.

Which is always good. No, I think that's great. And for you all out there, check that out. I actually would love to check it out, but I'll be in France at that time. I would love to make a donation if I could for all of you out there. If you can make a donation, continue to push this forward. And also we gotta get Drew Yoder out there, who's our head trainer. I always give this guy crap, Coach. He's from Iowa and he always give me crap 'cause I'm from Saginaw, Michigan. And so we gotta get him back there.

Let's do it, man. Let's do it. Anybody's welcome, especially anybody. Can he play golf a little bit?

He actually can. And you know, another thing which I absolutely love about him, he walks around the facility talking shit to everybody. It's all it does. So absolutely.

That translates to the golf course too. We all know that, right?

That's a fact. That is a fact. But moving forward, you guys start the off-season and all of a sudden, you know, going 2018, 2019 season, get the opportunity to get Kawhi Leonard. How big was that? What was that like coaching him? Obviously didn't get to coach him for sure as long as you would have, but what was it like getting Kawhi, him coming in and kind of taking the franchise up a level?

Yeah, I mean, you know Kawhi, first of all, he's awesome. I loved his just competitiveness, his drive, his smarts, everything. But, you know, What he did probably more than anything, Draymond, was he just kind of rose the level of everything.

Yeah.

Right? He just, everybody played a little bit better. Everybody believed a little bit more. All those kind of things with his presence. And he was awesome to coach. I think that my most fascinating things with him were, you know, when I'd be in the fourth quarter and things, and I'd be like, you know, like, 9 minutes to go, and I'd be like, "Let's go, you gotta get back in there." And he'd be like, "I'm not quite ready yet." I'd be like, "Well, we better hustle because there may not be anything to wait for." But, you know, he knew that about the 6-minute mark, 6 and a half, he'd go back in, but he knew and he just dominate. He just made every play at both ends, every tough rebound. Like, he really knew what he kind of had in the tank and what he could provide. And I kind of— Yeah. And I just admired that about him 'cause he really would go make, you know, plays at both ends that were just, you know, that's what I love, guys making plays at both ends. And they were just huge plays, you know?

Absolutely, absolutely. I think it's incredible. Obviously we were on the wrong side of it. I must say I was absolutely shocked. And you know, I know he's an LA guy or San Diego, Southern Californian guy. Wanted to get back closer to home. But that may be the only player in the NBA that can win a championship with a team, probably get offered the entire country of Canada, and leave and go back to the Clippers. Like, I can't think, can you? I can't think of any other guy in the NBA that would turn that down.

I can't think of it ever happening either. I'm not totally, totally shocked Draymond, because the very first meeting I had with him, like he got traded to Toronto. I'm not sure he was like, "Well, what happened here? How'd I end up here?" And I'm meeting with him and it was super cool. We were kind of going through some stuff on the board and just getting to, you know, listen to him feel about, "I like this, I'll move here," these kind of things. And it was a great conversation. And he kind of said to me, "Listen, all right, all right, I'm gonna play to win. I'm gonna play, you know, I wanna play to win. I'm gonna play to win it all." Mm-hmm. And he said, "I'm gonna do it for 1 year. After that," he goes, "I'm not sure what's gonna happen, right? But for 1 year, I'm gonna play 100% and I'm gonna play to win the title." And I was kind of like, "That's a pretty good deal. Let's start with that," right? So I wasn't totally shocked, but I thought after we'd kind of done it all and did, you know, all that stuff like you just said kind of rolled out, I was sure hoping he was gonna stay because that was a really, really good team. It really was. You know, in the end, it was a really, really well-put-together team and really had great chemistry, as you know, you've been a part of them. Those things are special.

1000% special. I think for me and watching that team come to, like even when I look back on that team and I know a lot of people said like, oh, it's Kawhi Leonard just carrying these guys to the championship. And when I look back on that team, obviously Fred VanVleet was not an All-Star yet, became an All-Star there. Pascal Siakam, hadn't really become an All-Star yet, became a 2-time All-Star. If I'm not mistaken, I think Pascal made First Team All-NBA at one point this year, or Second Team, I mean, throughout those years. Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Serge Ibaka, Marc Gasol. Like, I feel like those are the championship teams that I remember, right? Like, you go down the list and it's boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, what was it like coaching that team? I think you, if I'm not mistaken, I think you guys had, was Garrett Temple on your bench at that point?

No, we had Norman Powell.

Okay, Norman Powell.

Yeah, we had OG, got hurt right before the playoffs, so he was on that team. That was, yeah, you're right. I mean, what was it like coaching them? It was awesome. I mean, I think we knew we had a chance from day one. You know, you go to training camp and you're looking around, you're going, holy shit, this is like, we're good, man. Like, we're really good. And kind of the cool thing about it was we didn't really, nobody else really was talking too much about us. You know what I mean? Like we kind of stayed under the radar and it wasn't like, even when the playoffs started, I think I went back one time and looked and I think one outta like 16 reporters picked the Raptors, you know? Like nobody was talking about us. So, and the unique thing that I thought, and you've probably been through this, maybe not, but I, I just couldn't believe how much better we got from playoff game number 1, you know, and against Orlando in the first round to 2 months later by the time, by the time, you know, we saw you guys. I just can't believe we just kept improving, improving, improving. And that's also really special and really fun to be a part of.

Absolutely. You know, obviously our teams before were a little different, maybe 2015, but we kind of got good early in that year. But 2022, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Okay.

Because that year, I kid you not, I'll be honest. So 2022 is the first year of Miami Grand Prix, F1, Formula One. And my friend and his family, they own the race. And so they had laid it out, all my friends was going, and I think it was maybe May 5th, Which obviously, as you know, is like right at the end of the first round of the playoffs.

Yeah.

And he's like, "Are you coming to F1? Are you coming to F1?" I'm like, "Yeah, we fucking suck. Like, I'll be there. We'll lose in the first round for sure." Like, that's what I thought of like the team we had. And I'm like, "Yeah, we'll lose in the first round. I 100%, like, leave me locked in. I'll be there." And we start to, we play the first game of the playoffs. And I called him after the game and I was, he was actually, he had text me and he's like, you're full of shit. Like, you guys look great. And I'm like, yeah, we actually just look better than I thought we did. But like, hold off, I'll still be there for F1. Right?

Yeah.

And we start playing and we going through and we got better and better and better and better. Then we get to Dallas Mavericks in the conference finals. And it's like, we didn't even feel like they had a chance. Like, oh, this is money. And then we get to the finals. And like you guys, everybody thought we'd lose to the Celtics. We weren't big enough. The Celtics were way too big. They were younger, they were more athletic. They were all of these things. However, and where you guys were different, they had guys that knew how. Like they had— Draymond Green. I mean, they didn't have guys that knew how. And we had guys that knew how. Where you guys differed in 2019 is Kawhi knew how.

Yep.

Draymond Green knew how, right? Like when you have those guys that know how, like do you feel that as a coach, like it makes a big difference? I felt like that was the edge for us in that Finals against the Celtics in the year where we got better and better and better, like you just explained.

100%. I think a big part of that, Draymond, I don't think guys that haven't gone through it have any understanding, A, absolutely how long it is.

Yes.

2 full months.

Yeah.

And it is like, and then I don't think they understand a lot of the intensity of it. Like, man, when we were playing you guys, I can't tell you how many times I'd be like, goddamn, these guys are fucking fast. Like, damn, but they just fucking keep on running, you know? Like, and they don't ever get tired. And I kept telling my team, "They're fast, but you run, you be fast too. You keep running fast too," right? So again, just the, you can't get tired, man. You can't succumb to the 2-month grind or how physical it is or the pressure of it all. Like, you just gotta keep staying locked in and keep, man, that's the thing I think the guys that have been through it can impart on everybody else and help them get through some of that. Yeah.

100%. It's crazy because I was in a meeting yesterday and I was talking to someone and he was just speaking about like, man, get to the NBA Finals and if you lose, like those guys just look so crushed. And I was telling him, I said, you know, you get into the NBA Finals and losing, I've done twice. It's actually the worst thing in the world because you play 2 extra months of basketball and you have absolutely nothing to show for it. Nothing to show for it. You're expected to, like, you have the same summer that the champions had, but they get to party and get a pass and get a little longer to get in shape because you know they're coming off championship. Whereas if you lose in the finals, no one remembers. Everybody like, "Oh, you should come into the next season in tip-top shape." All these things, like, it's a totally different mindset. But what I was telling him is, I said, "As much as you are," As much as you are like disappointed and hurt that you lost, what really happens is you go through the NBA Finals to your point. And by the time you get to the end of it, your mind doesn't allow you to process how tired you are. Your mind doesn't allow you to process the exhaustion, but the moment it ends, It's just like everything's just wiped out of you. Like it is a grind like no other. And to your point, I don't think anyone really understands that.

Yeah. The biggest difference is this though, right? Like when you win it, your phone rings a lot. When you don't, the phone stops ringing. Like that, the whole, the whole pace of everything comes to a screeching halt, right?

Yes.

That's what I always find interesting after a season that you don't win it is things get quiet really quick, right? But yeah, I think it's, And you're like, I couldn't believe it was over. And I swear to God, I just got home and I was back in this for sure, you know, like, man, that was like 2 weeks, you know, 3 weeks later you're back and getting ready for next season, you know, as a coach.

Absolutely.

And I know you'll be just trying to recover, recover like crazy if you're a player, right? Get your body right and just try to heal up, right?

Absolutely, 'cause you come out of those things beat up. It's crazy. Coach, I gotta ask you, who's the greatest Raptor of all time?

Kyle Lowry.

I agree.

Yeah. I agree. Kyle Lowry.

It's unbelievable what Kyle was able to do going to Toronto, kind of finding his footing. I think what, Kyle got to Toronto in like year 7 or 8 or something like that? Had never been an All-Star, finds his footing. Can you talk to me about, love Lo by the way, as you know, had an opportunity to win a gold medal with him.

Appreciate that, by the way. Thank you for that.

Absolutely. Like, can you talk to me about just what Kyle Lowry brought to the Raptors organization?

Yeah, listen, I think I got there right at that kind of start of that. He was just kind of a part-time starter. This would've been 2013, I think. So a while ago. Man, I don't know. He just, his competitive fire. He's one of those guys, you know, I throw him in the same bucket as you that they just can't help themselves when it's time to compete. Like there's no way they're not competing at something, you know, like something's gonna turn on and it's gonna happen. It's just so deeply ingrained in him. I think he brought that. Never seen, I mean, again, comparisons to you, right? Like I never seen a guy like in a flurry of 4 minutes, like do so much, you know, like bang up, bang a shot, you know, come down, get charged, come down, you know, knock somebody over, lay it in, come steal one. Like it is just like this whirlwind of winning, you know, like a whirlwind of winning in like 90 seconds or something, right? And I just, You just can't help but love that. It's like, you know, I— people ask me, who, you know, he's number one. Who you ever seen play the hardest in your life? And for me, it's him, you know, like that I've coached, right? So that's it. He brought that. I think he brought— once he started, you know, getting better, progressing, the team started winning, the success just kept expanding on all that and just kept riding that wave. And I think he continues to do it. I mean, I think 6 All-Stars and 2 gold medals. I mean, that's unbelievable, I think, for him, right? And it's just, he continues to just do a lot of it. I mean, he's like 6 foot tall, right? He does it all with a lot of heart and toughness.

Absolutely. And let's not forget NBA champion. That's a big one.

Yeah, man, that's right. 2 gold medals, 6 All-Stars, NBA champion.

Yeah, kidding.

Absolutely.

And speaking of Kyle Lowry, Coach, I gotta ask, you've changed something. And speaking of that NBA Finals run, I think you changed something in the NBA with a move that you made during that NBA Finals. It's like something we didn't normally see in NBA games. And I just gotta ask the question because I need to know who I need to be upset at. 'Cause it absolutely crushed us. You guys decided to go box and one on us. Obviously KD was out.

Yeah.

And you guys go boxing one on Steph and it threw the entire rhythm of our offense off. And I just wanna know whose fucking call was that? Because no one does boxing one in the NBA and outta nowhere you come with a boxing one in the NBA Finals. Whose call was that? As a 12-year NBA veteran, recovery is very important to me. As I continue to get a little older, the body just doesn't bounce back. The way it used to. So I'm a big fan of Hyperice, especially their NormaTec boots. What's great about the new NormaTec Elite is that they ditched all the extra hoses and control units from the old model. This one is fully self-contained with a small set of buttons to select your compression level. Super easy to travel with and to get set up after a hard workout or a big game. On top of that, the NormaTec Elite packs 4 hours of battery life. That's enough juice to get full leg compression compression cycles in before games, after games, and even on the plane. And don't get me started on the tech inside this thing. Hyperice has been pioneering recovery science for years, and the brand new NormaTec Elite takes it to another dimension with 7 different compression levels to choose from. But it's not just for pro athletes. Everyone can get their hands on these to help with recovery, increasing circulation, and reducing swelling in the lower body. Shop all your warm-up and recovery needs at hyperice.com. Draymond Green. Use code Draymond for 15% off your order today. Exclusions apply.

Well, like all that stuff, Draymond, since we were just talking about Kyle, I'm gonna pull him into this. Like, listen, I coached in a lot of funky places, right? I coached in Brighton, England, Ostend, Belgium, Birmingham, England, you know, you name it. Des Moines, Iowa, Enid, Oklahoma, McAllen, Texas. And sometimes when you're in some of these places, you're just like, You know, this guy's all, this is, this we gotta hop. Let's try this box and one. So I, isn't like I hadn't used it before, but in saying that, I kind of grabbed Kyle and I drew up the, I said, you're gonna go here and there. And I put Fred on, I'm going box and one. I'm put Fred nose to nose on Draymond Green, 94 feet. And, and you're gonna be in the top of the 2-2 zone. And he goes, let's do it. So he kind of He kind of gave me the— and he took it to the timeout and said, we're doing this, man, watch this. You know, so you know how that goes. You need to buy in from the guys. And so 50/50, me and Kyle, maybe, I don't know.

That's great, man. I'm telling you, when we saw that bot, it's like you couldn't hit a shot. Like no one was accustomed to it. I think people have gotten a little more accustomed to it now. Like I know we have things now to attack the boxing one, which I mean, you kind of gotta have something to attack the boxing one after it cost you a championship. Like the nightmare of seeing the boxing one.

You guys are using it now. Now you guys are using it now.

We most definitely using it now. It cost you a championship. You better start using it. Right? Like, I just cannot believe. And it's like we forgot how to shoot. We forgot how to dribble. We forgot how to pass. It was unbelievable the timing of it. I don't know. To make that call, I don't think you get enough credit for it. To make that call, and quite frankly, most people that'll be talking about basketball don't have a, probably don't even remember you did that 'cause they don't have a fucking clue. But to make that call in the NBA Finals, to go box and one, man, that took some balls. And I tip my hat to you. By the way, you used to wear your Knick nurse hat. I'm happy to see you with your 76er hat because when you wore your Knick nurse hat, I just used to try to find shit to piss me off. And I'm like, that coach got on the hat that says his name. Like, let me just find something to piss me off.

You ain't the only one that got mad. I just want to let you make you feel better. All that stuff from that Nick Nurse hat went to the foundation. So the money was channeled in a good place.

All right.

It's funny, man.

I love it. I absolutely love it. Switching gears. You now have the opportunity to coach one of the best players, best big man in our league, best players overall. Just what's it been like now on the other side of it where, A, I would also love to know if you throw the shot in his face that Kawhi hit. But what's it been like to coach Joel Embiid as opposed to being on the other side of it?

Well, both those guys, both him and Tyrese, Draymond Green, were— I thought coaching against him was extremely difficult. And Joel Embiid, Joel's been on the end of some of that stuff we just talked about. Like, we used to throw— we had so many coverages for him and schemes for him because we just didn't have anybody to guard him. So, but you're not just gonna say, well, we can't guard him. Like, we can somehow with 4 or 5 guys figure out how to stop him and see if we can live with the rest. But They were both great going against them. Now that I've been here, they're even better. I'm, I thought they were really, really great when I was coaching against them, and I still think they're really, really great. Joel was having the season of his life until he got that injury. He was really playing great and better and all that stuff. And it's, he's awesome.

Thank you. Absolutely. And speaking of that, and speaking of the injury, brings me to my next question. What do you, I agree, Joel was playing absolutely incredible. But my question is, what do you think of the 65-game rule? Because for instance, Joel, in the midst of having the best season of his career, MVP season, right off coming off an MVP season, and the 65-rule game, 65-game rule doesn't even allow him to qualify to compete for the MVP. I just wanted to know, what's your thoughts on that rule? Do you agree with it? Do you, like, what's your thoughts on it?

I think it's in place to not let somebody play like half the season and still win one of the major awards, right? I think that's why it's in place. I don't think that would ever happen anyway. I don't know, you probably know more of the financial ramifications of it, 'cause I know some of that stuff ties into max contracts. All-NBA team certainly does, et cetera. But I think it's on people's minds, right? And I think it's hard. What are you trying to accomplish, right?

Yeah.

Are you, is it super important for you to win one of those awards? I mean, I don't know. I want a Coach of the Year award, and I certainly would much rather have a championship, but it's still pretty cool to have that Coach of the Year award, man. I ain't gonna lie, right? You know what I mean?

Like, absolutely.

If I had to coach— if I had to coach 80 of 82 games, you know, I'd probably find a way to do it or whatever, you know, so I could be in line for that if I was lucky enough. I don't know. I don't— I don't know if I love it or not. It's— it's there for now, and let's see how it goes.

Yeah, I think, um, I mean, I personally, I think it sucks. I get it. I get the intentions of it. But I think just like anything else, the unintended consequences of it, I think is wrong. You know, you got a guy, like I remember Joel getting hurt. He got hurt against us actually.

That's right.

And I also remember the games leading up to that. Like we didn't know if he was gonna play, like what was, like, 'cause he had missed a couple games leading up to it. He didn't play in Denver. And we didn't know if he was gonna play. But I also remember, remember that he was creeping up on his game limit. And so it's like, oh, let's get out there. Then boom, he gets hurt. And my thing is, like you just said, what are we trying to accomplish, right? Like, we can all say like, oh, like, you shouldn't chase, um, the— you shouldn't chase individual awards, but the individual awards is what gets you in the Hall of Fame. Like, the individual awards is what gets you the max contracts. Like you said, the individual awards is what gets you the sneaker deal. So you can't just say, "Oh, you shouldn't be chasing after that. You should only be chasing after championship." We all want the championship, right? Like, I think that's the goal. But I'm not sure, like the goal is to not have people load managing, to not have people sitting out games that they could be in. But like, there is a reality of you play all 82 games, you do get hurt sometimes. And to have to rush, like rush back out there. Tyrese Halliburton earlier this year, I thought he rushed back trying to get, and he was not the same Tyrese Halliburton for the rest of the season. And so I don't know, man, I disagree. And then also it's hard to add a rule like 65 games to the All-NBA teams, the All-Defense teams, the MVP awards. When that hasn't been the rule all this time. And you got people who've won awards that didn't meet that. So are you going back in the history books and saying, "Oh, but this award really didn't meet it. Are we snatching that out?" You know?

Yeah, man. That's what, that's, yeah, that's always tough, man. And the history part of the game when you change those things and looking back at all that stuff. I think Draymond, it's like been such a tough, I would say it seems like there's been way too many bodies missing too many games. Not just superstars, superstars are the ones everybody notices, but the amount of times I would say in the last 3 or 4 years that we've had like 6, 7 guys out, like that's what's gotta get done better.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree 100%. I don't know how you fix that, but we need to get healthier in general, I think.

Absolutely. And a couple more questions. I don't wanna take too much of your time, but kind of just staying along this topic, do you think there's some truth to, you know, the 82-game season, but the game being way faster now, right? Like you're probably getting up and down the court now double the amount of times that teams were, call it 20 years ago. Like, and that making a difference. What's your thoughts on the 82-game season? Like, should maybe that be shortened a bit with the speed of the game? Like, when talking about player health, player safety, and all these things, obviously we wanna see Joel Embiid on the court. Like, I didn't buy tickets to the 76ers to see Joel Embiid hurt because he was forced to play a game. And not necessarily forced, but come on, he's trying to win back-to-back MVPs. Do you think there could be a possible adjustment in the 82-game season?

I think I would be in favor of that, Draymond. I don't know how, again, how it all works out logistically, monetarily, all that kind of stuff. But I certainly agree with your point. Like, here's what I would say is, is you go back and say, oh man, back in the early '90s, these guys all played 82 games. And, but, but it was like they dribbled down, they throw it to block, and two guys stand on, and then, you know, they— there was a lot of standing around. Like, the pace was, was not anywhere near what it is now. Everybody kind of can do everything now, right? Everybody has to guard everybody. Everybody's got a guard on the perimeter. Everybody's got to guard the 3. There's a lot more transition. Um, so I think the activity level and the— and the— just in general, like, like, if the pace is, is twice as fast It means we're doing twice as much probably, right? So the chances for injury and all this stuff should be twice as great as well, right?

Yeah, I agree 100%. I, you know, sometimes, and I get it, right? Like everyone say, oh, you play less games, that's less money. There's ways around that. Like there's just like, there's ways around anything else. We got the smartest people in the world working in the NBA. We got the best, attorneys in the NBA office. Like, there's ways to, for people to put their heads together and figure out how you keep the money the same, but maybe lessen the games a little bit. Because the reality is, I think a few less games equals a much better product. Like, a few less games, you're talking about you take off 5 or 6 games, that pulls back 3 back-to-backs for a team, right? Like, and you start pulling back all of those things when you're looking at risk of injury and all of that, I think that can make a big difference. So I don't know. But then switching gears a little bit, Adam Silver said yesterday that he doesn't know if the NBA is in a place where we'll ever see a competitive All-Star Game anymore.

Yeah.

And I just kind of wanted to know your thoughts on that. Do you think the All-Star Game should kind of go away? Maybe mix it in, like do some other things. What's your thoughts on that? Or should players be like, you know what? It's an honor and I need to get that out there and take it serious. With you being a coach and sitting on one side of it, you want your players to return healthy. How do you look at the All-Star Game?

I have really fond memories of the All-Star Game, Draymond. First of all, the 2021, I was lucky enough to be the coach of in Chicago. And I think it was the first Elam ending one they did.

Yes.

I don't know if you remember that or not, but that one, that last like 15 minutes of basketball, it was like, poof. It was Kyle and Pascal and they had LeBron, AD, Westbrook, James Harden. I mean, it was unbelievable. We had Joel and Giannis. Oh man, it was, and they were really playing. I don't know how we can recreate that, but I'll never forget that 15 minutes of basketball. But ever since then, it has been a little rough. It's hard to watch. I don't know, you know, the NFL one's kind of gone away.

Yeah.

Major League Baseball, they still put a little bit of incentive on there for the playoffs. They tie it to the home team in the World Series and stuff like that. I don't know, there's just a lot of thought process going on there.

No, I agree 100%. And you know, I've kind of sat and like toyed with the idea of like, do you go away with it? It's such a historical thing. And like, I don't know, man. I just don't know. It's so bad. Like I actually was there this past year.

Yeah.

It's one of the worst games I've ever seen. I've seen like some little league games. I've seen a bunch, like it's one of the worst basketball games I've ever seen. I couldn't believe it.

Oh, I know.

And there was an emphasis on it, right? Like everyone was talking about it. There was an emphasis. I know our commissioner Adam met with the team. I heard Larry Bird met with the teams. Like everybody's coming in and talking about it. It was just like, oh, like, nope, left-hand shots.

Hook shots.

I don't know what you do with it.

It always starts and you're like, okay, let's see if they're gonna play or not. And it lasts about 3 possessions and somebody makes a full-court pass and then it's bank off the backboard and right back. I'm like, "Oh, guess not." All-Star game time.

Draymond Green goes. Just before we get outta here, you with two All-Stars, Joel, Maxie. I love Tyrese Maxie's game. It's been incredibly fun to see his growth. And I think what most people don't know about Maxie is, as good of a player as he is, he's probably 10 times better person.

He's nice.

Just the vibe he brings to the team. And I've never been on a team with him, but I can see it. Like the vibe he brings to a room, like he just brings great energy all the time. And it's been great to see his growth. What do you guys have to do in order to take that next step? I know Joe hasn't been out of the second round in his career. Like what do you guys gotta do to get over that hump and take that next step?

Well, first of all, you're 100% right about Tyrese. He like, he makes every room he goes into better. I still think he's got a ceiling that hasn't been hit yet. I think he's gotta, he doesn't understand how good he's gonna be yet. I think I can't wait to see him keep growing. And listen, I think that, as you know, man, we need, we got a whole bunch of roster spots, we got a whole bunch of money to spend, and we gotta piece it together around those two guys. Like, who complements them? Who's got some toughness, who's got some winning spirit, who's got some winning experience, you know, who's not afraid, who can accept some roles, you know, all that kind of stuff that you need to build a team. But we're certainly trying. I believe in my front office and Darryl and Elton and ownership and all that stuff. And I certainly believe in those two players.

Absolutely, no, and I think, you know, I think we're also starting to see that shift in the NBA of where You remember back in the day where you had a great point guard or great guard, a great one or two, and you had a great big man and y'all got that, right? Like, and I'm starting to see the NBA shift back. You know, we kind of went through the small ball phase. Everybody was trying to copy our style of play. Was you good? Right? Like, and I think we're starting to see the league flip back now to size and, Great guard, great big, and you guys have those foundational pieces already. So filling, just filling the pieces in, I think, you know, it's obviously important. But my last question before we get outta here, Coach, as a Coach of the Year candidate, or no, excuse me, a Coach of the Year winner in yourself, I just wanted to know, what do you make of the voting process for these awards? You won Coach of the Year. I've won a Defensive Player of the Year myself. But the voting process for a guy like Eric Spoelstra, who's never won an NBA Coach of the Year award, like what do you make of the voting process when it comes to Coach of the Year, MVP, Defensive Player of the Year? What do you make of the whole voting process?

I just always wanna make sure that these people that are voting are watching the games.

Mm-hmm.

Right? They really are investing the time. And I think, Draymond, I mean, you know who the good journalists are and good people in the media that are really knee-deep into it. I mean, there's a lot of games to watch. Those people got a lot of work to do and all that kind of stuff. That's all. I just think that's what I would say about anything. Like, you talk about being on this show as a champion. Like, you gotta make sure when you're talking about stuff after the game that you, you've studied and you've actually watched it. You're not just kind of, hey, what's going on? And taking somebody else's opinion and twisting it in your own little flavor and all that stuff. That's it.

Absolutely. No, I think it's great. I think the one complaint that I would have about it is like, to your point, it's hard to get 100, like to think that all 100 of these people are watching all of these games right now. If you dedicated, And by the way, maybe it flips every year because it's so str— like there should be some laws in place to like, hey, we need to have proof. Like maybe you're sending in notes after the game or something. Like we need to have proof that you've been watching these games. And so maybe it's like a 25-person committee where, you know, you're voting on the awards and they got that strenuous job this year. And then someone else take on another 25, take on that strenuous job next year. But I think like, there's no way, come on, there's no way a lot of these journalists that are on the East Coast are watching us play on the West Coast when our game start at 7:30 PM and it's 10:30 and they're watching the game the whole way through.

I would say this, I do have some of the people that are on there, I do have some of them reach out to me and call me and they always, You know, they'll tell me you're talking about defensive, all defensive team or something. And I'll always say, well, give me what you're talking, you know, who are you comparing with who first? You know, like, and they do do a good job of like, here's where I got it right now. What do you think? And then I'll say, man, no way. Yes way. You're right. You know, whatever. So I think that's doing some homework and doing some research, asking some coaches or assistant coaches, guys that are watching the film every day, right? That can give them some positive feedback and hopefully they take it.

100%. Coach, man, I can't thank you enough. I'm still upset you kicked our ass. You make the call of the NBA Finals and go box and won and stifle our offense. Nonetheless, I am absolutely honored and appreciate you, appreciative of you coming on the show. It's an honor to have you on. Good luck with your journey with the 76ers. I know you'll do great things. And then also I wanna connect with you about the golf, Carroll National. Send some, help get some donations out. And like I said, to all of y'all out there, get your donations in. Coach is doing a great thing. Music, sports, literacy for children. Don't have to spend his time doing that, yet he is. And we know, we do better for our kids, our world become a better place. So check that out. Get your donations in. But Coach, man, I thank you so much. Thank you.

Hey, Draymond, appreciate it, man. And it's an honor to be on the show, but it's even more of an honor to compete against your great teams and against you sometimes. I know we have a couple of cross-eyed downs once in a while, me and you, but we're both competitors, right?

Absolutely, and that is what happens.

Don't kick my butt, man. I'm not going, you know, you wanna jaw at me, I'm gonna jaw back, but we're good, right?

We're good right there, baby. I would never cross that line, Coach. All right, man.

Be good, man.

Take care.

Have a great summer.

Thank you, Coach. You too.