Pascal Siakam on facing the Warriors, Kawhi Leonard & Joel Embiid's greatness | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. This next guest, I'm excited to have. He's a 2-time All-Star, but as you all know, we always talk about this. You gotta have a resume coming on this show. 2-time All-Star, NBA champion, 2019 Most Improved Player. Now, the interesting thing about this guy being an NBA champion is, as you all know, there aren't many guys that can say they beat us, me, in an NBA Finals. LeBron being one, and obviously the Raptors being the other one. I'm honored to have this next guest, my brother Pascal Siakam. Thank you for coming on the show, bro. Thank you.

Thank you. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate for having me. I don't, I'm not a podcast guy, but there's a couple of them that I, you know, like when they tell me, I'm like, I'm in it. I'm in it. So let's go.

I appreciate that, man. I can't say that I'm over 2019 yet. I know we won a championship last year, but—

Nah, man. Come on, bro. You got a lot of those.

It's hard to get over that.

You got too many of those to do that. You got too many of those to say that. Like you got a lot of them.

But see, here's what you haven't experienced, and it is actually one of the worst things in the NBA that can happen to you, which is you go to the NBA Finals and you lose.

Right.

Yeah, nah. Because as you know, celebrating that, like, it's great. Like, you celebrate all summer, everything's fantastic, right? But I had the same short summer you had.

Yes.

And so you go that far and then you lose and it's like the worst experience of all times. Like you lose 2 months of your summer.

Right, nah, I definitely agree with that 'cause I remember like when I went through, we went through that year, like the whole sub, the whole like season. And I started the season probably, I was like 240 when I started the season. And once we got to the finals, I was probably like 218, 217. Like bro, like I was like skinny. I'm like, yo, like this is crazy. So like, I can just imagine, especially like you guys, like LeBron, like going through like, like going day in a row and like just having that type of time. And then the summer was like new to me because usually I'm like, yo, like I'm in the summer. Like that's my favorite time of the year basically. Cause like I'm, I'm in the gym every day. I'm working like just routine routine. And you get to that point. It's like, man, like we don't even have a summer, you know? So like, yeah, it was crazy. So I can get that. I can definitely respect that for sure.

Absolutely. But bro, I wanna start this off by going back to the beginning of your journey. Now this, you know, when I do these podcasts, you like to do research. So you know a lot about guys or in particular, we had a woman, our first woman last week, one of the ghosts, Candace Parker. But you like to have information. I wanna be 100% honest with you. I have the information that I know about you and I didn't want to do much research because I wanted to hear the story from you. I wanted to learn more about you from you. And so what I know, like born in Cameroon, you came over, played at New Mexico State, you know, you got to the NBA, but I don't know all the fillers and I didn't want to 'cause I wanted you to fill me in on that. So just start me off, like take me back to Cameroon. What age did you start playing basketball? 9.

Right. Yeah, it started, well, 'cause growing up in Cameroon, if you're from Cameroon and probably like a lot of countries in Africa, like when you grow up, you play soccer or football, like they call it. And it's like, that's the first thing you do. Like we never, like you don't know anything else. For me, I was lucky 'cause my brothers play basketball. Like they started playing soccer, but then they started playing basketball. I'm the youngest, you know, of 6 and I have 4 brothers. I have 3 brothers and it's like, yo, like they started playing basketball and growing up, like I just, I just, you know, watched them and I was like, man, like maybe I'll try it. I was probably like, first time I started playing basketball, I was probably like 16, 17.

Yeah. Right.

Like my first time. And I remember we went with my friends, like one of my friends, I came back 'cause I was in boarding school. I mean, I feel like I'm like going everywhere, but I was in boarding school, like, and I came back. I usually come back for like the break. And I come back and some of my friends was like, yo, like, we going to this camp and it's this NBA player and stuff. And I'm like, okay, like, I have no idea. I don't know anything about the NBA really. And it was Luka Nwamute. And it was like, oh, okay, man. Like, this is an NBA player. He's doing a camp. He's from Cameroon. And my friends was going. So they were like, all right, let's go. So I'm like, all right, cool. I have nothing to do. I'm like, I don't mind, you know? So I just went and— Yeah. I was one of the best players in the camp. And from that, I'm like, I didn't even know anything about basketball, you know? So it was just like super crazy that I was selected to that. And then after that, it was just like, I went to Basketball Without Borders the year after. I was probably like 17, almost 18. And it was like, after that, it was just like, man, I'm going to college and then the NBA. Oh, I'm going to college and then the NBA. So it was like pretty crazy. It's pretty fast, like the way it happened. Yeah.

And so at that point you're pretty much just, you're just going off all sheer athleticism.

Yes, that's it. Like literally, 'cause I mean in school, like I was always, obviously I was probably, I was probably one of the best in like just like running, like high jump. Like we did all that stuff in school. So I'm like, I'm one of the best, but it was just like just pure athleticism, like from playing soccer and just like my stamina was good so I could like run for days. And I could jump. So it was just literally just that, like literally just running and jumping, hustling and doing that. And that was just the first, probably my first skill in basketball for sure.

That's crazy. And one thing that I did hear was that all of your brothers received Division I scholarships to play college basketball in America.

Yep, yep.

How did that, like that come about where they're receiving Division I scholarships? Like what was the path for them to get that exposure?

Yeah, no, the path for them is like, obviously for me, growing up in Cameroon, like I was blessed that my dad, like my dad was like, you know, like he was okay, like financially, like, you know, like we, yeah, we weren't like, you know, like we had mostly everything that we needed and his, like he always dreamed about basketball and like the NBA, like this was his thing. Like he loved that. And so he always saw that, oh, I mean, like people that go in the NBA, they play college. And then to go to the NBA. So like, that was like his thing. So he was like, "All right, I'm gonna do everything that I can to find a scholarship." So he did all the work, like talk to the schools, like find schools. He had friends 'cause he used to travel, go to the US like back and forth or like even to France. And so he had like connections. So he would just find, he found people, they gave like, "Oh, okay, your son can come here and play high school basketball or something." Like, 'cause they left earlier than me. I left when I was like 18 years old. Like I graduated high school, And then I went to the US. My brothers, they went earlier. Like, so they started, they did probably like 2 years of high school or something like that. Like probably each of them and then was able to play high school basketball, get a scholarship, and then go into the, to college.

So how were you eventually spotted? You ended up at New Mexico State. How were you eventually spotted?

Yeah, so I went to Basketball Without Borders. After I went to Basketball Without Borders, it was like, I mean, I got some attention, you know, from people. Some people talked to my dad. And it was like, all right, like you can go, we're gonna find you a scholarship to go to like a prep school. I went to a prep school before in Texas. And I probably did like, probably like a year there. And then after that, the prep school I went to, the coach, his son went to New Mexico State.

Ah.

So then his son went to New Mexico State. So from there, that's when I learned about the coach. I had no offers really. Like I had no offers or anything like that. The dad, he talked to the coach about me or whatever. And then from there it was like, all right, the coach likes me. This is my only college offer. I'm like, all right, cool. Like I'm in it. Like, so it was just like, it was just, that's just how it happened.

That's crazy.

I had no offers at all. Like at all.

Man, when you came in, you eventually go on to be the 27th pick in the NBA draft. But again, I'm gonna be totally honest with you. My first year playing against you, when you were with the Toronto Raptors. I'm like, yo, this like, all right, this guy's athletic, but like, I can go help. Like I can help off, I can go plug the gap. Like I don't really have to worry about this guy much other than like him slashing, cutting, getting to the rim, offensive rebound. And then it's like the next year you came back and you're a totally different player. All of a sudden now you got the ball in your hands. You pulling up in the mini, you shooting the three. Mm-hmm. I'm like, yo, like, who is this guy? How did he get this good this fast? Obviously your work ethic is tremendous. I've seen you work. We've trained in the gym with some of the same people, Travell Gaines, Athletic Gaines with James.

Yeah.

And I know how hard you work. But if you had to point to one or two people to say, without these people, I would not be as good as I am. Who would you point to outside of just your pure work ethic?

Right. Yeah, nah, for sure. Like, I think again, like, it takes a village for sure. Like, you know what I mean? Like, to be able to get to this level. And I probably had a bunch of people in college that, like, one of the coaches in college, his name was Preston, like, who was in the gym every day. Like, literally New Mexico State, I mean, we in Las Cruces, there's not much to do. Like, we, like, You're not gonna go out there and find like, you know, places to go where you're gonna go party and all that. Like, you gotta drive like 45 minutes to go party somewhere. Like, and that was in El Paso in Texas. Like, so I'm like, yo, like, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm not doing that just to party. Like, I can't. So I'm like, F the parties. I'm, I'm in the gym every day. Like, you know, we working out every single day. So that was like college. And then we get to the NBA. I remember like my first time meeting Rico Hines. Like, that was, For me, that was like the first person like that I got to work with, like really, like, you know what I mean? Like we sat and just build a plan together. And I remember my first time meeting him, I think it was the first year they started doing like, you can go put your name in a draft and then like you see if you want to do it or not. Like I think it was like, I saw the first year they did that. So, which I think was a blessing. So I'm going there and I'm working out with Rico. Like it was like my agent knows Rico. They went to UCLA together. So it's like that relationship already. And I get there and I'm like, all right, like I'm trying to test the waters. Like I wanna see, like, I wanna see if I can make this happen. And my first time working out with Rico and we played a little bit, like the first time he saw me, like he was like, yo, like, I don't even know what you're thinking about. Like, stop, stop thinking. Like, I don't want you to think about testing the waters, whatever the case might be. Like, you an NBA player. Like, I don't want to hear nothing. Like, going back to school is going to be a waste of time because I remember at that time, like, I was really debating because, like, my dad, like, he loved basketball, but, like, his thing was like, yo, we got to finish school. Like, he was so big on that. Like, we got to finish school. Like, I don't want nobody just, like, going out there with no education. So, like, that was always playing in the back of my mind. Like, yo, like, I want to be able to get my degree and all that, you know? So—

Yeah.

But then like once we had that conversation with Rico, man, like he just put so much like confidence in me, like so much like, you know, like I've never really had like, I've had that before, obviously my family, you know what I mean? But like people outside of that, like just believing in me and like from that first day it was like, yo, like let's do this. Like you ready? And after that it was like, man, like you go out there every summer, we in the gym every single day, just grinding. Like I'm there 24/7, you know what I mean? Whenever you're looking for me in the summer, I'm in the gym, you know? And he's the person, like, he's the person that's there with me. So, like, that's a guy that I can definitely say, like, yo, like, you know, we put the work in, like, and he was always there committed to the work every single day.

Man, Rico is incredible. You know, a lot of us have had the opportunity to be touched by Rico. Obviously not, for most guys, not to the extent that you have, but I just wanna make sure on this show that Rico Hines get the love that he deserve. You know, I'll—

True.

And just pointing at you, like, an All-NBA player, an All-Star, and like, I've watched you guys grind from the beginning of your career to all of a sudden, the entire Toronto Raptors team is out in LA trying to get better. And I personally, I think that all stems from your success and watching you and everything that you've done and the growth that you've had, brother. I take my hat off to you because—

Thank you, thank you.

Appreciate it. I mean, you literally went from a guy that they was spotting up in the corner that was not a corner shooter to like all of a sudden, you like, you outta nowhere becomes the second option. And like, all right, like most guys can't take that next step to become the number one option, bro. It's amazing. And so I just want you to know, man, I take my hat off to you as a competitor, as someone who gotta guard you. Like when I guarded you well in the finals, we won. Clearly I couldn't guard you well enough, we lost. You know what I'm saying? So much respect, bro.

I appreciate it, bro. Nah, nah, for sure. And that means a lot 'cause at the end of the day, like, For me, like, I just feel like, you know, you put the work in and you do everything that you're supposed to do. But I think just like getting, especially being in Toronto too, like we don't, like nobody really, like people, this is a joke around, it's like nobody really cares, right? Like, so I think that just to see that respect, you know, from somebody that's done it at the highest level, you know what I mean? Like that means a lot for sure.

Nah, no doubt. I appreciate it. And so y'all went to NBA Finals your third year. The 2 years leading up to that, Kyle and DeMar, leaders of the team. And you guys are having great regular seasons, great regular seasons. And eventually you run into LeBron in the playoffs and can't quite get over the hump. It's like, it almost looked like LeBron's just, "All right, I'll get to the Raptors and I'll win.

No problem." Right, right, right.

You guys then go on to trade DeMar for Kawhi Leonard. When you see that trade happen, I'm super close to DeMar. I know you have a relationship with DeMar as well. So number one, you see that trade happen. What are you thinking about the business of basketball? Number one, to see your number one player get traded.

Yep.

And at that early in your career, what are you thinking about the business? But then also what are you thinking when you see that y'all got Kawhi Leonard coming in?

Yeah, no, I think that, like, obviously, like, instantly, like, the first thing is just the shock value of everything, right? Like, because I think for everyone, we saw DeMar in Vegas. Like, we saw DeMar in Vegas before all that. So, like, for us, it's like, yo, we saw DeMar. We have our meetings that we usually do. We in Vegas, it's Summer League coming up. Like, so we hanging out. So, like, I see DeMar. So from that, it was just like the shock value of it. It's like, yo, like, what is happening? Like, I— I'm just, I'm confused. And obviously, like, for someone that's just close to DeMar and, like, just love him as a person, like, bro, like, DeMar as a player, he was always one of my favorite players. I always used to tell him, like, even when he was on our team, I'm like, yo, like, you one of my favorites. Like, just the mid-range, like, the things, like, he just looks so easy and effortless for him, like, the way he was doing it. So I think just from being a fan and also, and then also being, like, his teammate and his brother, I'm like, I'm hurt. Yeah. 'Cause I'm like, yo, like, this is crazy. And like you said, it's early on in my career. I'm thinking like, if that happened to Draymond Green, like, I can't even imagine what's gonna happen to me. You know what I mean? So that's the way I'm thinking about it. Like, yo, like, this is crazy. So those are the first things. And then after the shock value, everything calmed down. You're upset, you're mad, you know, like, you're in your room, you're upset about everything. But then after that, you think about like the player that you're getting. And Kawhi Leonard, like another person that I watched, you know what I mean? For me, like just someone I went to San Diego State, mid-major, I was a mid-major. Like he came in the NBA, like he wasn't really like doing all these things. Like he was a defender. Like he was, it was this and that. And then he became this huge star. So that's another person that I'm like, yo, like I watched from far and I'm like, yo, like his game is dope. And so from that, I'm just like, yo, I'm excited. Like, yo, like, this is crazy, you know? Like, getting an opportunity to play with someone like that and being on the same team, being able to learn from him. So after the shock, it was just like kind of like excitement to see like, yo, what can we do with this person? Because we've got a player that's, you know, that's like really, really, really, really good, you know? So yeah.

And, you know, you guys, summer plays, how you guys going in training camp. Are you thinking at that time like that Kawhi is possibly the guy that gets us over the hump? Because again, what you just mentioned was, A, you're in Toronto where no one's talking championships. Like it's Toronto, like basketball isn't that, and let's like, basketball has grown in Toronto over the last 15, 20 years, but hockey's, the biggest thing in Toronto, hockey and Draymond Green. Like, and now— I mean, I don't know about all that. No, no, no, that was the case. But now you guys have changed that. But that change also comes with winning a championship.

For sure.

When your rookie year, that wasn't the case. Like, but then you guys win a championship and now a lot of people care about the Raptors. But are you thinking at that point, you guys are going into camp, you got Kawhi Leonard like, yo, this team can possibly win a championship. Was that the conversation around the team going in?

I don't think if for us, like for me, I don't think, for Kawhi, I think it was, you know, but for us it was just like, again, obviously like we've never done it before. So like, you know, like obviously we want to be, we always had great, great teams, you know, like we go to playoffs, we do everything. So we thinking we are a great team, but at the end of the day, you don't really think ahead of that. Like you don't really think like, like it doesn't get in your mind right away, you know what I mean? Because it's just like, something that you really haven't done. But just looking at our roster and the players that we have, I'm like, yo, like, we have a damn good team. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm thinking, you know? But I don't know to what extent. Like, I don't know how it's gonna work with Kawhi. We never played together. Like, so at that point, like, I don't know what's happening, you know? Like, I had no idea. Obviously, it was Nick was the coach. Like, all these different things. Like, it's just a little different. And—

Yeah.

And I had literally no idea what was gonna happen at that point, you know? Like, so I couldn't really pinpoint, like, from the beginning of the season, I couldn't see that. I couldn't see it right away.

Sure.

While the season was going, then you kind of like, oh my God, like, this is getting interesting, you know? Like, I think that's what I would say.

Yeah. You guys end up matching up with the Philadelphia 76ers in the second round of the playoffs. Obviously we all know Kawhi hit the big shot in the corner, bounce, bounce, it drops in. But I thought there was something interesting that took place in that series with a fellow Cameroonian for yourself and Joel Embiid. And you came out then and you said, "He's a fake tough guy." Ah. And I would like to know, A, number one, what made you say that then? And where do y'all relationships stand now being, you know, two guys from the same country?

Right. Nah, I think it's just, it's all love. Cause I think he's, where I'm from, you know, I'm from Douala, he's from Yaoundé, right? Like we, if you, if you're from Cameroon or you know anything about Cameroon, like those are the two cities, right? It's like Douala, Yaoundé. And it's always back and forth, like just like always talking trash. Beef, like whatever you want to call it. We have the best city. We have the best girls. We have the best parties. Like we always, you know, so it's always like that, that little back and forth. So I think for us, like just going back and playing against each other, like every time we do, it's like, it's always that, like that little, like, I just want to do better for my city. 'Cause I know that, you know, we better than y'all. You know what I'm saying? Like, so that's always that. So, and you know Joel, like he's not going to hold, his tongue. He's not going to hold his punches. Like, he's going to talk. He's going to do all that. And when we play against each other, he's going to make sure that I don't score. Like, he's going to, like, be there helping, do whatever he got to do. Like, you know what I mean? Like, just because of that. But in terms of our relationship, like, actually, like, it's like, nah, like, we cool. You know what I mean? Like, we talk all the time. And it's like, it's always love. Like, at the end of the day, like, two kids from where we from, like, being at this level, like, it's— it's unheard of, you know what I mean? Like, obviously we had our big brothers that was there before us, like the Luka Mutay, like the Bumce Bumce, like all those people. But to be at this level, like, and play where we at, like, it's crazy, you know? So definitely we feel blessed and stuff. But at the end of the day, once we go on the court, like, it's beef. Like, we at it.

Ain't no friends. Ain't no friends on this court. I'm at your neck. Obviously that plays out. We end up, you know, go through the conference finals. Then we end up playing against each other in the NBA Finals. And we come into that series, Kevin Durant's out. You guys immediately take control of the series. Kevin Durant comes back in game 4. Game 3. Game 4.

Game 4. It might've been game 4.

Game 4. And when Kevin Durant comes back, I look up, 6 minutes to go on the clock and we got 36 points. And I'm like, yo, it's 6 minutes to go in the first quarter. We got 36 points.

Right.

When you see Kevin Durant come back, he's clicking like that, we're clicking. What's the thought in your mind at that point?

Bro, I'm not gonna lie to you. So before the game, like, so you guys are working out and stuff like, and at first it was like, it was always like a debate, oh, is KD gonna play? Whatever, whatever. We get there and it's like, yo, like he's warming up. And I was like, all right, all right, bet. Like KD's here, he's playing. Like, it's a little like, all right, all right, man. Like we're not, we're not expecting this, but whatever. Like we're like, okay, we kind of like thinking still in our heads. Cause you know, like you said, we took control of the series. So in our heads we're thinking like the momentum is on us. Like we have the momentum, like we still good, you know, but we get in that game, bro. Like, oh my God. Like. Oh my God. I don't think KD, like, I don't think he touched the rim like one time. Like, I don't even think he touched the net. Like, he shot the ball and I don't think, like, I don't think it touched the net, bro. Like, it was just like straight, like, he was pulling from like whatever. That shit was like crazy, like water, like nothing. Like, so I'm like, I'm just like, yo, this is going to be a long night. Like, at that point, like literally, like if there was like any panic, like at any time, I think it would've been like that point, like when KD like came back. 'Cause it was just like, for us, like we felt like we matched up well with you guys, you know what I mean? Like, and obviously like it's tough to guard like Klay, Steph, like obviously with you, like all the things, like the movement, like all y'all offense and everything that you guys do. And it's like, yo, it's crazy. But then you add KD that we would feel like, yo, like he's really like unguardable, it feels like. 'Cause like some of the times you gotta hope that he miss, right?

Like— Yeah.

You gotta do your best and like challenge it the best that you can and just hope that it miss.

So— Absolutely.

For us it was just like, yo, like adding KD and the way he was playing, like he started that game, it was like, yeah, like it was a little, a little panic right there.

Nah, for sure. And then obviously Kevin gets hurt. Actually it's game, that's game 5 Kevin came back. 'Cause Kevin gets hurt in game 5, we go back to Golden State game 6, Klay gets hurt in game 6. And so, That was definitely game 5. But walk me through the feeling, you know, you guys eventually closed the series in game 6, going to the first championship for the Toronto Raptors, but your first championship. Walk me through that feeling of getting over that hump. And then you like, wow, like, wait, we're NBA champions. Walk me through that initial feeling. 'Cause I'll tell you something, for me personally, Obviously, I've been fortunate enough to win 4, and I'll tell you what, you win that first one and it's the most amazing thing in your life. You win the second one, third one, fourth one, and the most amazing thing to me after that is seeing the guys who win it for the first time. So you got guys now on the team who hasn't won one, and like, you celebrate with those guys, and seeing the guys who won it the first time is the most amazing thing. Talk to me, walk me through that feeling of winning that first championship?

Yeah, nah, like it was, it's crazy. Cause I just think that for us, like you said, like we've had that talk of like, oh yeah, the Raptors gonna go, they're gonna have a great regular season. They're not gonna do anything in the playoffs. So like we hear that all the time. And I heard it when I was with Kyle, Draymond Green, all those guys. And obviously I was younger coming up, but that's all we heard. So I think you already have that in your mind. And I think for us, like just winning, was like, yo, like, this is like, we actually did it. You know what I mean? Like, and it wasn't just like, it was like a team where like everyone like kind of like played a part in like winning a championship. Like obviously you remember the Kawhi shot and all these different things, but like, you know, Milwaukee series, Fred coming back and hitting all those threes, you know, even in the finals against you guys, like those three, like me making the shot, like, you know, Mark, like Kyle, that first, that Game 6 coming up, like going crazy, you know, like that first quarter. You just think about all those moments, you know what I mean? Like, and it was just like amazing, bro. Like just like the hard work that you put in and just like that joy that you get from like knowing that you are the best team in the NBA. Like it's just incredible. And the other part of that is the city. The country. Like, you know what I mean? It wasn't, it wasn't, it's like, okay, obviously like you win as the Warriors, right? Like San Francisco, everyone is happy and stuff. But imagine you won that and the whole US is like excited, you know, like, so that's hype.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? Like a whole country is excited about it. Like people are going crazy. Like you hear stories till today. Like I'm, I still hear stories of people being like, man, like that championship, I remember where I was. Like I remember, like you can't even, you don't even know what that brought to me, my family, like things like that. So I think that's just what makes it like so much sweeter.

Nah, I think that's amazing, man. And I always wonder about that feeling, which actually brings me to my next question because when it happened, I looked and I'm like, how can you walk away from that? Shortly after that, 2 weeks, not even, you get the news that Kawhi Leonard is leaving and going to the LA Clippers. Quite frankly, I'm not sure how you can walk away from having an entire, I mean, I feel like Kawhi would've owned Canada had he stayed. And you know, he walked away. What's the mindset then once you realize like, yo, we're losing Kawhi. And not only are we losing Kawhi because you know, when you look back at it, not often do you lose stars or people like that for nothing.

Mm-hmm.

And when you look back at it, like that was the deal. Like that was the risk. Like Masai makes the trade for Kawhi, he got one year left on his contract and you, you are risking him walking off, but ultimately in hopes that you get a championship. So you accomplished the goal.

Yep.

But on the flip side, you'd hope that the goal that you accomplished allows you to run it up a little longer.

Right.

And then Kawhi leaves. What, what's the mindset once, once y'all find out that Kawhi is leaving and headed to the LA Clippers two weeks later?

I think, well, it's like mixed, right? Like, I think at the end of the day, like, for me, it was just like, man, like, if there's one person that I will see do that, it will be Kawhi. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, in my head, like, that would be the only, like, the one person that I'd be like, yo, like, I can see him, like, doing that. Because, you know, the way he conducts his business, the way he is, like, all the things that he does, like, it's always in, like, just like a particular way, you know what I mean? Like, so I think for me, I'm thinking like, man, like, and like, I don't think he can leave, but at the same time, like, yo, like, it's Kawhi, right? Like Kawhi's gonna expect it. He's gonna do what he wants, like, and much power to him because I like, that's who he is as a person, you know what I mean? Like, that's how he's always been conducting anything. So obviously, like, you hurt because it's like, yo, like, what can we, like, we look at our team, it's like, yo, like, we can really do this, you know what I mean? I'm evolving, Fred is evolving, everyone is getting like, you know what I mean? Like it's growing into their own and we thinking like, yo, we can really build something special. And Kawhi leaves. So it was just like, man, like this is, this is, it was, it was sad. Like it hurt. But at the same time, like, I can't, like, like I said, like I can only see Kawhi do that, you know what I mean? Like, and, and, and it didn't really feel like, oh, you know, like, because I can see that happening. Like I'm not totally like surprised by it. Yeah. At the same time. So yeah.

Did Kawhi make a mistake?

Did Kawhi make a mistake? I mean, I don't want to say he made a mistake. Like, that's crazy to say because, you know, like, at the end of the day, man, like, I think, as we all know, it's like, the man happiness and like being, you know, doing what you want to do and being in a place that was going to make you the most happy, like, that's the most important thing above all, you know? I love Kawhi as a brother, someone that we won a championship together, but I would never be like, oh, you made the wrong choice, you know what I mean? Just because he made a choice that was good for him, you know? And I respect it. But do I wish that, and I look at it in hindsight, like, yo, if he was on our team, like, wow, he would look, you know? Like, yeah, maybe it would look a little different, but I can't blame the man for making a decision for himself and his family.

No, I can appreciate that, man. You watch, You watch people in this league that think like our lives belong to them or our decision-making belongs to everyone else. And so I can appreciate your stance on that. 'Cause I watched like when Kevin Durant first came to us and like people were mad at him. Like how can you be mad at someone for deciding what they wanna do with their life? Like you don't just wake up and go to the gym. Like you wake up, you live in that city, you wake up like, everything that you do, like, that's a huge part of it. So I can appreciate your stance on that.

Yeah, no, it's a lot that comes with that. Like, it's so much more, like, and you understand it, like, and you know what I think for us, we understand it. And I want to say one thing about, like, because there's one thing that I really hate, it's like this whole thing now, like, people are betting and stuff. Like, it's probably like that culture is like the craziest thing to me because like people would literally like, like, really wish you like death because they missed whatever they was betting on. Like, it's the craziest thing to me. I just want to say like, I don't like it. And stop messaging me about you lost your parlay. I don't care. I don't really— I could care less if you miss your parlay today, tomorrow, like whatever you did, whatever you bet, I really could care less, bro. Like, I don't care.

It does not matter.

It doesn't matter to me. Yeah, I still gotta go home to my family and the people that I love. Like, I don't care about nothing else.

Absolutely, man. A few more questions, I'm gonna get you outta here. I know you in Philly, wanna get on with your evening. I appreciate you taking the time. In 2022, you were not named an All-Star, but you made All-NBA team.

Right.

Which to me is like kind of crazy because it's actually harder to make All-NBA —than it is to be an All-Star.

Right.

What did you make of that when you see your name come out on the All-NBA team and you like, I didn't even make All-Star. You like, what did you make of that?

I was just, I was confused. 'Cause again, like it just, for me, I don't understand like the criteria. Like I don't understand anything. I don't understand the criteria of like what it is to be an All-Star or All-NBA, MVP, like all these different things. Like I'm just literally like, lost and all of that. So like, I was confused. Obviously, I felt like I was an All-Star, but then it didn't happen. Then in my head, I'm like, all right, whatever. Like, I'm just continuing my season. I'm, you know, I'm balling, I'm doing whatever. And then I get All-NBA. It was just like, I was just confused. Like, to be honest with you, like, I don't know. I don't know how it works. You know what I mean? Like, and I just learned for me, like, with everything that happened in my life, like, I control the things that I can control. And then the rest of it, like, Man, like I could really care less. Like all I care about is just doing what I love, going out there playing, control what I can control. And I'm not gonna stress over things that I can't really control. So people pick who's All-NBA and All-Star and all that. And that happens and I just go with it.

And speaking of that, there's been a lot of news lately and I'm sure we'll probably see it soon with the new CBA coming up. But there's been a lot of news about criterias as you just spoke on for All-NBA, for All-Star, but in particular for these major awards, MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Improved Player, in which you won. And should there be a game limit in all of these things? Where do you stand on that? Should there be a certain amount of games that you have to play in order to, in order to— Yeah. Be rewarded with one of those major awards.

Yeah. No, I mean, I do think so. Cause I think that like, it takes a lot. And most of the time, like obviously like when I was coming up and I think for me being just like one of the players, you know, spotting up in a corner and just, you know, and just playing defense and running and doing all that. Like, it's like, it takes a lot, but at the same time it's like, man, like you play 20 minutes a night or whatever. Like, you cool, you know, like, and I think that there's some people that, like, out there playing 30+ every single night, like, like people like you guys that go to the playoffs, go to the finals, and do it, like, consistently. I think that that just makes it, like, so much harder, like, being out there doing it every day on a consistent basic, like, like, you know what I mean? Like, it just, I think it just makes it, like, so much harder, and it takes, like, so much, like, like, that's why I admire people, like, you know, the LeBrons and those people that, Like, man, like it's crazy to do it consistently in that amount of time. You know what I mean? Like, and every day putting the work in, not missing really games. I mean, unless you're really, really injured and just doing it every single day. I think that's what makes it hard. 'Cause I think there's a lot of people that can do it, you know, like you can do it one year or you can do it, you know, for 30 games, 40 games, you know, but can you do it for 82 games for 5, 6, 7, 8 seasons? You know, like I think that's what makes the greats who they are. And that's what, you know, for me, a player, like, you strive for that, you know? Like, I want to play as many games as I can, put the work in to be the best, like, for the longest that I can. And I feel like that's what makes it, like, really special. So yeah, if you ask me, I would say, yeah, it should matter, like, how many games you played, you know, to be able to win awards.

No doubt. A foreign player yourself, this league has grown in tremendous ways. It's a very global game, a global league, and top 3 this year for the MVP race is international players. I think that says a lot about the game. I think that says a lot about the growth of, you know, basketball in other countries is huge. But if you had to vote, who are you voting for MVP this year?

Oh yeah. If I had to vote for MVP, I mean, like, Obviously it's gotta be, it's gotta be like, you know, my Cameroonian brother. Like, it's gotta be like, you know, it's gotta be Mb. Like, I think that, you know, he's doing it, you know, at all, like he's been doing it for years, but like just, you know, this year doing it at an incredible level. And he's just playing unbelievable basketball. Like the team is winning. He's doing it on both ends of the floor. And I'm sure there's like a lot of other people out there that deserve it. Like, you know, like the Tatums and the Jokic and like all these people. But I think for me, like, you know, I obviously I might be biased, but at the same time, it's like, it would be awesome to see someone from where I'm from, like win an MVP. Like that would be crazy. It's crazy inspiration. Like just to know that like, man, like this is really possible. Like, and not only that, not only that I'm biased, I think he also deserves it.

Yeah. Nah, for sure. I think he's deserving as well. I must say, and I now know Joel listens to this stuff because he bust my ass last week because of something I said on here. So I'm gonna throw that out there. But I must say, after he had that conversation with me at half court about why he just played the way he played, for him to not play versus Denver, especially, especially the way he dropped Joker off in Philly. Like he really went at Joker in Philly. He got the best of that matchup that night. I was a little disappointed that he didn't play in Denver that night. I must say that.

Right, right.

But you just said something very interesting and it's a real thing what you said. I may be biased and what I wanna say to that is you probably are biased.

Right.

And you are, there's no probably, you are biased. Now it's a good bias because Joel is right there. It's not like you're saying something random, like Joel should be MVP. But my point with that is the people who are making these decisions are also biased.

Right.

And that's one of the issues that I have with these awards. Because you think about these awards, these awards decide if you're gonna be in the Hall of Fame.

Right.

These awards decide how you're going to be viewed and what you've put 15, 20 years of your life into ultimately in the long run. And like you have these people voting and I just disagree with the voting criteria. Like, I mean, like who's voting? Like—

Right.

Like I don't quite understand that because there are biases. Just like you just said, I'm a little biased.

Right.

You can't tell me like if I'm up for Defensive Player of the Year and it's me versus someone, Do you think Kendrick Perkins wouldn't be biased towards me as defensive player, like voting for me defensive player, even if I'm deserving? Like, I 100% think he'd be biased. And so like, what do you make of like who's voting for these awards and like the way it's determined? Because another thing it does is it determines how much money you make.

Right.

And that's crazy to me.

For sure. Yeah, nah, it's pretty crazy. And I think for me, that's why, like I said, like I've just disconnected myself totally from that just because I'm like, yo, like I really don't understand it. Like I don't get it, you know? And like you said, it's like just people voting for that. And yeah, some might have biases, you know? Like, so it's like, what do you do? Like, I'm sorry, who do we make to have these votes? Like, I don't know. Like, who do we choose instead of those people to vote? Like, do we have computers voting? Like, what do we do? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know.

Yeah.

Like, I feel like it's just so hard And I feel like, yeah, it's gonna be biased. Like, and it's hard. Like, it's like, what do you, I just don't know how to respond to it. Cause I'm like, who do you put in that position to make those votes? Like, who do, would you suggest like to be voting for All-NBA and like all this stuff? Like, who do you think?

I think just like other things, coaches, because like there's a way of doing that, that you can't vote for your player, right? Like, You can't vote for your guy. I think they have a better sense. They watch the most film. Like, they, like, I just think it has to be a better way in deciding these things. Now, what you, I know the argument that they would make as coach, well, some coaches would do this so you don't make as much, like.

Right.

I don't think there's a perfect answer.

Yeah.

But I do think at some point it has to be addressed. Like, for instance, all-star starter. Maybe there's a situation of media carries this much weight, coaches carry this much weight, and then we like, you know, we equal out the two in some way. But I just think the way that it's done right now, I'm just not totally sure.

It's tough, man. It's hard. That's why, like I told you, bro, like I try to just like, man, like I can't control it. Whatever happens happens, you know?

No doubt, no doubt. And something, Two more questions. Number one, your name came up in a ton of trade rumors and you know, I kept watching y'all games and watching yours and checking the box scores when I didn't get a chance to watch. Play steady, same thing, doing what you do, not being bothered by that. How do you handle all of the trade rumors? 'Cause your name come up every year, just, I mean, and quite frankly, it's just because of how good you are. Your name's gonna keep coming up. How do you handle that? You know, when all those trade rumors are coming up?

Yeah, nah, it's tough. It was tough early on. Like, I think that, you know, like early on, like for me, like just seeing that and I think that I was, I mean, I'm not a huge social media person, but at the same time, like early on, like I was really on social media. Oh, I'll go on Twitter. Like, I'll check what's going on. Like, I'll be on Instagram, you know, I'll see the comments and, you know, like, and even the worst thing you can possibly do, like if you're a young player coming up, like don't ever like go on Twitter and put your name in. It's probably the worst thing you can do. You type your name in the search bars, like, it's horrible. Like, don't do it, you know? Like, and I would do that, like, as a young player. And I think for me, like, just what I understood from, like, just going through it, like, the trades, like, you know, with Draymond Green and, like, all the stuff that I saw, all these things happening, like, seeing how someone can be loved and then the next minute, you know, you the worst person in the world, like, going through the pandemic, like, like all these different things. Like, I just like learned, like, for me as a person, like to disconnect myself with like, with that, you know, like, I try to, you know, I'm not on Instagram all the time. Like, I just, I just make sure that I have control over like what I do, like, what do I follow? Like, who do I, who do I, you know, like, you know, what pages do you follow? Like, what do you see every day when you wake up? Like, and all those different things. And I try to just like, have my mental right in a space where like I'm focusing on what matters. You know, I'm focusing on my family, I'm focusing on my team and playing basketball, the game that I love and try my best. It's hard, obviously. Like it's hard. Like you wanna be on Instagram all the time. You wanna be on Twitter, you wanna check these things. But I just think that what changed for me was just being able to have that balance and knowing like what really matters and trying to just like disconnect, you know, whenever I need it. Mm-hmm. And it's been the best thing for me because it's helped me to just be kind of like level-headed and just like knowing that like, yo, like I gotta come in and do my job every single day, no matter ups and downs, bad game, good game. I still gotta show up at 9 o'clock, 8 o'clock in the gym and work out. I still gotta, I still have a game the next day. You know what I mean? Like I still have these things.

Absolutely.

And once I just like understood that, like I was able to just be like, man, whatever happens, happens. And yeah, like you're also fortunate that being at a certain level, like I feel like my value is the same everywhere. Like, you know what I mean? At the end of the day, as long as I'm putting the work in, like wherever I'm at, like I'll be, I'll have the same value just because of the work that I put in. And so I just try not to focus on what I can't control.

No doubt. And before we get outta here, there's a rule in the NBA that if, If an owner of an NBA team is the lead investor on a deal, we can't invest. Which I think is like some old rule that needs to be changed because quite frankly, like you look at the owners of NBA teams today, they are some of the most powerful people in business. Like you look at a Michael Rubin who recently just sold, but like Michael Rubin is one of the most powerful businessmen soon to be of our generation, you know? Joe Lacob, who's, who's, you know, one of the majority owners of the Warriors, he's huge in the tech space. Peter Guber is huge in the film and producing space, who's another majority. Yet if they're in the deal, I can't quite participate in it. And it's the same for you obviously as an NBA player. But the question I wanted to ask you was this, and it's a two-part question. Obviously the BAL, Basketball African League, which I'm sure you're, I know you're super familiar with. Would you want to own a team in that league and say at some point in your career, maybe later in your career, 'cause you'll probably make another few hundred million dollars here in the NBA.

Hopefully.

But at some point in your career, if they said, Pascal, we want you to go play in the BAL, we'll give you ownership of a team or we'll allow you access to ownership of the team that you're gonna play for, but you'd have to go play in that league. Would that be something that you would entertain if you were given the opportunity at ownership in the BAL league? Because I think that league is gonna grow crazy over the next 5 to 10 years.

Yeah, I think for sure. Like I think for me, obviously I want to be involved in that, you know, like I think that as an African player, someone that came up and for us to be able to just kind of like, you know, be the voice and the, you know, like the younger generation see us and they see Joel, they see me, they see all the African players and like they want to be like us. And I think that we just part of like that machine that's growing the game in Africa, you know what I mean? Like obviously with NBA and all those other entities. And I would definitely love to be an owner of a team, you know, BAL. Like that would be crazy to me. Like— Yeah. Being from Africa and being able to do that. And, you know, I don't know, maybe in my career if I'm like old, maybe, yeah, like you'd be like, yo, let's go and play over there. And if the game is growing the way it is over there and like, which the growth that you talked about, like if it's going that way, like, yeah, like why not? But owning a team for sure. Like, and like, that's something that I would love to do and being a part of it, you know? So hopefully that can happen. So I think—

Yeah. I hope it can happen for you. 'Cause what brought me to the idea was like a couple years ago, Andrew Bogut, who's a former teammate of mine who taught me a ton, he went back, he's part owner of the Sydney Kings in Australia. And he went back and he played for the team. They won a championship. And like to go to, like to think this man just went and played for his own team, helped them win a championship. How great that is for their brand as a team and continuing to grow. But also he gets to participate in the upside. You know, it's like for us, like you want a championship for the Toronto Raptors, you don't get to participate in the upside of that. Like I won 4 championships here with Golden State Warriors. I don't get to participate in the upside of that. And I just think like, again, it's one of those old tired rules where it's like, no, we understand ownership at this point as players, you know, like we're more privy to information now. Yes, maybe that was a rule in the '60s, '70s, and '80s when we weren't privy to the information that we're privy to now.

Right.

But we understand ownership now. And to be able to participate in the upside of the asset that you're driving, I think is long overdue. And when I was looking at the BAL League, because it's something that I've actually researched and been watching, because at some point I would love to be involved. And I just wanted to know your take, you know, as an African-born player.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And I think that, like, again, like, I think just having knowing that, you know, like, even for you to be, go out there, do the research and, you know, like, you're not just going to research anything, you know what I mean? I think that just shows that for us, like, how the game is growing, you know, obviously the NBA is involved. So it makes it, you know, like already like a big thing.

Mm-hmm.

And just to know that like, man, like there's gonna be young, young kids out there in Africa that could go to that league one day and then be able to find themselves in the NBA. Or maybe it grows to a level where it's big enough where some people will just go out there and they play, they live a good life and, and, and you know, like, and they play the game, they play basketball and they, they stay in, in Africa and, and, and do great things, you know? So I, I just, I hope that like, yeah, like it keeps growing and, And yeah, I just, I hope that we can get an opportunity to be involved in it.

My brother, Pascal Siakam, NBA champion, although it burns me to say that one. I appreciate you coming on the show, man. Thank you so much. Welcome back anytime.

Nah, I appreciate it for sure. Nah, and again, wanna give you your flowers, appreciate you, everything that you do. And obviously like being able to do what you did, you know, and winning those championships, and being a part of that organization. And another person that for me, you know, you watch and he's like, man, like he's doing all these things on the floor. I want to be able to do all those things on the floor. You know, so nah, that's great. And I appreciate it for having me.

Thank you, brother. You're much better than me. I appreciate you though, champ. I appreciate it, bro. Thank you. No problem, man.

Thank you.

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward.