In this episode of the Draymond Green Show, host Draymond Green chats with former NBA star Penny Hardaway and former guard Baron Davis about ball‑handling artistry and its evolution. The conversation opens with a nostalgic look at Tim Hardaway’s iconic “Timmy” crossover, noting how modern players like Andrew Wiggins echo the move. Hardaway explains why such moves have faded, citing reduced defensive aggression, stricter foul calls, and the modern emphasis on spacing and 5‑man switching. He then ranks the league’s elite handles, highlighting Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Rod Strickland, and himself, while discussing the unique skill set each brings. Hardaway also shares his rookie mindset—studying defenders such as Keith Askins, leveraging his 6'7" frame, and employing post moves—to illustrate how preparation shaped his game. The panel reflects on broader era shifts, contrasting the matchup‑by‑matchup grind of the past with today’s switch‑heavy, three‑point‑centric style. A brief mention of Hardaway’s practice habit of scoring at least 30 points a day underscores his work ethic. Throughout, the dialogue blends personal anecdotes, technical analysis of moves, and commentary on how rule changes and defensive philosophies have reshaped guard play.
Chapters
Tim Hardaway, the Texas Two-Step. But for us growing up, we called it Timmy, you know, the twin cross. Yeah. That's the Timmy.
Yes.
Like for us growing up.
Yeah.
Andrew Wiggins does this move. I knew exactly where it came from the first time he did it. I don't do it.
I seen it.
And I was like, oh my God, he just hit him with the penny. How did you come up with that move? And you was doing it from 3, which I think is absolutely insane. Like, people don't understand how far away the NBA 3-point line is from the rim. To have the strength to do that move from 3 is insane to me. Like, where— how did you come up with that move? And why do you think it is that more guys don't use it? Because you create so much separation with it. Right.
Yeah, I think for me, you know, shout out to Keith Askins, who was one of the best defenders in the league. He was kind of overreactive. Any little flinch I made, he went for it. So me, I'm studying him every game. I'm like, in that moment, because I only used that move, you'll never see any of that move ever in my career again. I was all about getting space and shifting you, right? So I knew if he was gonna go for the half spin, I had already planned it out in my head and it just happened in the moment. I said, if I half spin this dude, he's gonna be there. Because he was just that type of defender. And I'm just gonna separate with a step back. And when I hit the half spin and saw him there, I just hopped back. He didn't know I was gonna do that. Obviously I did.
No, it was—
And when I did it and shot it, I was in such a rhythm, man. I was, it was heat check time at that point. Everything was going in. But that was one time I did that move and I never tried it again because my mind just worked to try to shift you. And I knew what type of defender he was. And the reason why, to go to the second part of that question, guys don't do it anymore, Guys ain't playing D that hard in the league no more for them to actually have to try to do that. You know, they're basically chilling. And you're a great defender, so you know what I mean by that. I'm not knocking it, but—
Absolutely.
They're not playing D that hard to have to make you shift them like that.
For sure. No, you only got a couple guys that's like really picking a guy up in they chest like that. They're talking to a guy. But then also another thing is though, you can't touch players today. Like, You impede any movement, they call it a foul.
But dudes ain't afraid to, like dudes are afraid to get embarrassed, right?
That's true.
It's more like being afraid to get dropped or dunked on or in the highlights where it was more so like, I feel like, you know, your era and then a little bit of, and then my era, it was more so you trying to get on SportsCenter, right? Yeah. You know, I just feel like it's just a difference. Like dudes are nervous. Like, man, I ain't about to go hard on defense and then be sitting on the floor. You know what I mean? Nobody wants that.
I look at the approach like Jay-Z said in his line, y'all respect the one who got shot, I respect the shooter. Remember that verse? Absolutely. I respect the defender that gets up and if he gets dropped, he gets back up and come at you again. I respect that more so than the shot.
1000%.
So that's me, you know.
When you look at the NBA, like you said, you seen Magic on to, I'm sure you still watch the NBA some today. When you look at it, who do you have your top 3 guys as far as handle that came through the league?
Oh, that came through the league?
Yeah.
Draymond Green is one of 'em for sure.
Okay. Kyrie Irving for sure. Crossover Kyrie.
Crossover Kyrie and, Man, it's a lot of guys that had— BD had crazy handles, but he wasn't— he was freakish with it as well. But you talking about guys that displayed it every move. BD was about blowing around you. But these guys are like Kyrie. He'll hit you, beat you, pull back, beat you again, pull back. So we talking about them type of guys. Jamal would do the same thing. So you talking about— and then Steph has handles. He could do whatever he want with that thing too, man.
Steph is—
So, and then to be able to get that off from 3 with that same handle. So right now I could put Steph in that category because man, he works at it. And he gets separation better than no other. He don't need, you notice this much room. But the big guys with the handle to me were JC and—
Kyrie.
Kyrie. And I'll put Steph in there.
Rod Strickland too. I always put Rod.
Oh no, OG Rod. Oh, don't even start me with him, bro. That dude was ridiculous, bro. He was ridiculous. He was the Kyrie before Kyrie. I'm talking about just recently. But you talking about handles? Yeah, Rod Strickland was crazy with it, bro.
Yeah, Draymond Green was great.
You played against some greats, dude.
I did.
Yeah, that's it.
I did.
Go ahead, Jay.
Kenny Anderson.
Yeah, Kenny Anderson.
BD was just talking about Kenny Anderson before you got on.
Kenny Anderson, hey bro, he used to make me so mad in practice 'cause he'd be killing and you know how he is. He like, "Come on, yo, we just playing ball, yo. Come on, BD, check up, yo." And I would be in practice like trying to foul him.
You know what I mean?
And he just be killing. I was like, I'm gonna lose my spot to this dude. Shout out to Kenny Anderson.
Penny, how many you averaging a day?
And today?
I don't wanna make nobody mad, Draymond, but I'm thinking at least 30 for sure.
Easy.
Easy 30.
Easy 30.
In my prime, I'm not disrespecting anything, but in this day and age, this game fits me. It's not crowded in the paint. You ain't playing your matchup every possession. You know, back in the day we played our matchup every possession, so you really had to bring it. Now having a 5-man switch out, no. Yes.
I mean, yeah, that would be crazy. Like what was—
You getting dirty on dubs, huh?
Nah, that's an easy 30.
Get dirty on the dubs.
I just know, man, at 6'7", I just, I stay, I was a student of the game, bro. It wasn't just about my athleticism. And the style of play. I studied so hard, bro. So I was gonna figure it out, no doubt.
Hey, talk about the difference in, you know, like your mentality coming into the league, you know, as a rookie, a rookie sensation, like in that era, like you had to be a dog.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like talk about, you know, when you got there, like what was your mentality knowing that, okay, you got Mike, you got Reggie Miller, you may have Rod Strickland, You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's a fight every night. What was that like?
Yeah, it was kill or be killed, bro. That was my mentality. You gotta go out there and kill or be killed. And those guys weren't sparing you back in the day. Again, you had to play your matchup and it wasn't much help. You're on an island by yourself. And I said, well, they have to be on the island with me by themselves too. So at the end of the day, I was 6'7". I posted 'em up. I was like, I'm not gonna play with these dudes. I'm going right to the block. I'm going around 'em, I'm jumping over 'em. And for whatever, you know, deal, like back in the day, guards couldn't play post D. I guess they weren't used to being posted.
Yeah.
And I took guards to the post and just ate off that. And then obviously the floor game, you know, I had the floor game as well, but I wasn't about playing with people. I was about just getting the job done and trying to get the dub. And I wasn't trying to be cute, fadeaways and all that shit. Cause I, I ain't really with that. I'm with getting it done. And back in the day when I came in, it was kill or be killed.
