Sam Cassell on Hakeem Olajuwon’s greatness, Rajon Rondo’s genius, NBA head coaching | Draymond Green

Welcome to the brand new Draymond Green Show YouTube channel. Hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any of our content. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. Our next guest is a guy who I got a serious question to ask and we'll get into that later. But more importantly, a 3-time NBA champion as a player, NBA champion as a coach. Said my congratulations. Sam, I am the man. OG, Sam Cassell. Thank you. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, man. Absolutely, man. This is an honor for me to have you on here. You know, I have the utmost respect for you.

Sure.

I try to always make sure I show that respect and show that love when I see you.

Every time.

And that'll never change. And I appreciate you for the love that you've shown me since the time that I met you. You know what I'm saying?

That's been real for me. Since your first summer league game, y'all beat me. First summer league game, I say, damn, Draymond can hoop. Say, but he can't shoot. I said, no, he can hoop.

I appreciate it.

He can hoop. That's all that matters. As long as you can hoop, man.

Absolutely. Absolutely. But take me to the beginning of the journey. Obviously you grew up in Baltimore, Maryland, but take me to the beginning of the journey as an NBA player. You get drafted to a team with Hakeem Olajuwon. What was that experience like going on as a, by the way, as a point guard, then going to play with the Dream. What was that experience like coming right outta college and then going and play with the Houston Rockets?

It was so, You know, it was so ironic, man, that you watched him for so many years. Now you're his teammate.

Throw another shrimp on the barbie. Get in on UFC 305 live from the land down under. This is going to be fun at DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC. The middleweight title is on the line for the main event. You know, I go to UFC cards 4 or 5 live every year, especially in the summer and in the fall. I buy them. The card is stacked full of, as it says here, blokes and sheilas. Speaking of stacked, if you're new to DraftKings, sign up, go to the app. It's real simple. Put in the code COLIN, C-O-L-I-N. New customers bet $5 and get $150 in bonus bets instantly. UFC is so much fun to watch. Just incredible intensity. Put $5, $10 on the line. All right, the code is Colin. New customers, $150. You get it instantly betting just $5. Okay, UFC 305 middleweight title on the line only on DraftKings. The crown is yours.

And I remember the first day of training camp. So I didn't see Draymond all summer, you know, back in the '90s, you know, guys used training camp to get in shape. Training camp was a whole month. So you had a whole time to get in shape. So I'd never seen Hakeem Lodge run the whole summer. So when training camp, the first day of training camp, he was outta shape. He was outta shape. And when preseason came, man, I was like, "Wow, like, man, he ain't that good." You know what I'm saying? Like, he ain't that good. Not knowing that the veterans use training camp to get their body going and get their mind together. Mm-hmm. Our first couple preseason games, we was terrible. I mean, he had like 5 points, like 5 rebounds. And I'm like, man, like this team won 54 games last year. You know, I know we ain't this bad. Now I understand it's preseason basketball, but I really don't understand it's preseason basketball because in college we had exhibition games, you go hard.

Absolutely. You go hard.

You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. If you didn't go hard, the head coach had something for you later on. Absolutely.

You know?

So, and I never understood, like, man, I asked him one day, I said, "Draymond, like, what's going on, man?" Like, after the 4th game, we like 0 and 4, getting blown out by 20 points every preseason game, blown out. I was like, "What's going on?" And it was so simple. It wasn't even a thought process to him. He said, "Son, they don't send these stat sheets to New York." And I was like, "What are you talking about New York for?" Like, what? Obviously the stat sheet— Not knowing. The league office is in New York. You know, not having a clue. Like, what are you talking about New York for? Didn't understand. So I asked Kenny Smith that. I said, "That's a gift." What are you talking about, man? He said, "Sam, the popcorn ain't popping yet. Stat sheet's not real yet." So fast forward, open the night. Now we 0-8 in preseason. We had 8 preseason games back in the day. 8 pre— we 0-8. Our average loss was by like 16, 17 points.

Jesus Christ.

Man, when them lights came on, opening night, I could not believe what I was witnessing. We played the Golden State Warriors. I'll never forget this, man. This man had like 38, 14 rebounds, 6 blocks, 7 assists, 3 steals. He was in every category, man, that he leading every category, blocks, steals, everything. And I asked him after the game, I said, "Draymond, where was that in preseason?" And he took his mouthpiece out, he said, [SPEAKING SPANISH] took his mouthpiece out, he said, "It doesn't count. This counts. The popcorn sellers right now is ready. It's time to go." And ironically, we went 18 and 0. No, we went 22, 21 and 0 to start the season off. 0 and 8 in preseason, went 21 and 0 to start the season. It's crazy.

So that right there for you as a rookie, you see that, that fuck your mind up.

Oh, I'm done. I'm just like, This the baddest dude in the game of basketball. 'Cause you understand Michael Jordan has retired now. Yeah.

He's gone. Yep.

I said, this the baddest dude in basketball offensively and defensively.

Mm-hmm.

'Cause he was that rim protector. One day I was guarding someone, I think Jaw Stockton, and he beat me off the dribble and I reached in and fouled him. And he lost his mind. "Sam, what are you doing?" "Look up, look up there." And I look up in the stands, up in the ceiling, it was the all-time shot block leader.

He ain't alive no more.

He said, "I'll block it. Don't foul him. Trust me, I'll be there." And man, it was a pleasure just to be his teammate. 'Cause I know that if I got beat off the dribble, he's coming. He may not block it, but he gonna make you miss.

Absolutely.

80% of the time.

Absolutely. So I've been doing, I've had the honor of working with Jet. Yeah. Chuck, Shaq on TNT.

Great guys.

Amazing guys. And we had these conversations and Jet in particular. And Jet say, "I'm telling you, Draymond, Nikola Jokic has absolutely nothing on Hakeem Olajuwon." And I got a problem with that. I got a problem with that, 'cause I have a hard time believing that. And I know Dream was great. I get it and all of that. But to say Joker not even in the same category with Dream is crazy to me. How do you feel about that?

I think Joker is, see Dream is a beast both ways on the court.

Yeah.

You know, Dream, like I said, Dream was in the top 10 in every category in NBA. Steals, rebounds, you know, scoring. So, Jokic, I think he will score on Dream, but Dream will wear him down because the constant pressure. You know, he's not backing Dream down under the basket. You know what I'm saying? That's not happening. That's not happening. And on the other end of the court, Jokic don't have a chance.

Facts.

He don't have a chance. You know, he think that Joel Embiid gave him problems, you know what I'm saying, offensively. He wouldn't have a chance. 'Cause Dream, how could you stop him? He had a, Dream had a counter to everything you did defensively. He had a counter. And the crazy part about it, he used to practice these things and sometimes he used to bring something out that the move he'd go baseline and that we never saw that all year. He brung that out against David Robinson in the Western Conference Finals. We never saw him, he never did that the whole season. Mm-hmm. He brung that thing out in the Western Conference Finals against David Robinson. We was like, and it blew everybody's mind. Like, what the fuck was that? And David Robinson was the MVP.

Yeah.

It was the MVP. That man averaged 40 points, like 14 rebounds, like 8, he had like 6, 7 blocked shots a game.

That's crazy.

He was killing, he was killing. Like we used to have 3-on-1 breaks. And didn't like our numbers. And we just bring it back out and wave 'em down. Come on, come on, get 'em, get 'em. Throw it to the big fella. He always say, keep it simple, Kiss. Keep it simple. Keep it simple, stupid. Keep it simple, Sam. Sam, keep it simple, Sam. Come on. And that's how it was with Man Kenny. You know what I'm saying? He was always, Draymond was always our outlet in the game of basketball. Now he was very demanding. He was very demanding. Now he was, he wasn't easy to play with, but he was, He was good. He was real good.

So when you look at the all-time list of centers, where does he fit on that list?

You got— Guys that I have seen?

Yes.

He's right after, he's right after Kareem. I haven't seen Wilt and Bill Russell.

Yes.

But I've seen, I've seen the captain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I've seen the captain play. I think he's right behind him. And I think Shaq was right behind Draymond Green.

That hurts my feelings 'cause Shaq is my all-time favorite player in history. So I can't roll with you on that, but I respect it. I respect it.

Well, he beat Shaq in the finals. He beat Shaq in the finals.

He did. Shaq was young, man. Shaq, you know, Shaq got more rings though.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know.

Shaq does have that. Oh, Shaq the beast now.

Don't get it twisted. The big diesel. The diesel's the beast now.

Absolutely. Trust me. Shaq all of it. Shaq is everything you expect him to be. We trapped Shaq and that young Shaq was bad Shaq too now. You know, when Shaq was running that court, you know, get that thing off the boards and push that thing full court. You had to get outta his way. You know, you not taking no charge against Shaq.

He'll run you over. It's gonna look— Me and your chest. It's gonna run you over. So you don't do it again.

So you just let him, you know, dunk the ball and break the back. Shaq had made a purpose of breaking every backboard back in the day. It was just amazing to see how big and— agile. See, y'all remember Shaq when he was like with the Lakers and he was big and just going across the lane. And you know, I remember Shaq when he was running the court, you know, leading the break, throwing no-look passes, you know, having fun, laughing out there. But when Shaq got serious, he was a beast.

Absolutely. I have a question for you. I've wondered this since I was a child and I know your basketball knowledge, encyclopedia, if you will, on the NBA game goes further back than mine. And so I have to ask you this question. When you did the Big Balls dance, for those of you that don't know, you should go check YouTube. Where did you get that from? Because I remember when I watched you do it, I'm like, yo, that's nuts.

Yeah, it's crazy.

You know what I'm saying? This is how I always score. This is crazy.

Right. I watched the movie Major League. Major League 2. And it was the, I forgot the Asian left fielder name. He caught a, he jumped up, somebody hit a home run and he jumped up on the fence and caught the ball. And he just like came down with the big ball step. I like that. I'm stealing that. I'm stealing that. I'm stealing that. It was an old movie. This movie in the '80s. I said, "I'm gonna steal that." So I start making big shots as a young player. I said, "I got something for him." Now, first time I did it, they was like, "Man, what is he doing out there?" I remember Bill Walton, rest in peace, Bill Walton, shout out to him. He was doing play-by-play with the Clippers when I did it. And he said, "I don't know what it is, but it gotta be something awfully big." So that was the biggest, that's my man, Bill Walton. Rest in peace, man. Absolutely. Rest in peace. Rest in peace.

And so initially you start doing it and you're not getting fined by the NBA.

No, no.

At what point did they then start fining you for doing it?

Well, David Stern, you know, called me into his office and he said, "We gotta stop that." I said, "What you mean, Commissioner? Like, what do you mean?" He was like, "We can't have our kids, you know, doing that shit, Sam." You know, if you knew David Stern like I know him back in the day, David was the, He was a hard guy. He was a hard guy. He was a smart guy, but he was a hard guy. And he was like, "We can't have that. You can't have kids making the big play, doing the bet shit you be doing in the games. But now I know you do it, $25,000." I was like, "What?" Well, that cut me out. 'Cause back in the day, the salaries weren't that high like you guys getting right now. So $25,000 would hurt you back in the day. So I stopped. So when I knew it got big, when I seen Kobe Bryant do it, Yes. When I seen Jellybean do it, I said, "Oh, I made it now. I made it now." I see LeBron do it, I said, "Oh, I'm really in the big time now." You know what I'm saying? So it's a thing that I like, "Damn, I created that." Well, I helped created it for the basketball part of it. But I got it off a movie. I got that off a movie.

That's fire, man. When you did that, by the way, to get that off a movie and plan it is one thing. I don't think people realize sometimes though, you can have this plan and you get in these moments. And then you'd like totally forget the plan. I'll never forget my first game winner came against the Heat. Bron, D-Wade, Bosh. Was my second year in the league. No, it was my first year. 'Cause Jared Jack was on our team. Jared Jack dropped the dunk. I got the little layup. And in my mind I was telling myself like, yo, I'm about to swag on these boys. I had got into a back and forth with Bron that game. 'Cause he was calling me too little. I'm like, too little?

Are you crazy? Right, right.

And so we going back and forth at it. Then I hit the game winner. I'm like, oh, I'm about to swag. Man, I start running like a kid with my hands up like, "Oh my God." So to have the wherewithal to still get to it.

Right, you gotta get to it.

It's crazy to me. But I wanna go towards the end of your career. 2008, you get a chance, you play with the Boston Celtics, you get a chance to win your third championship. What was it like being on that team, but also, And I wanna ask about this guy in particular because I haven't had the chance to sit down and talk basketball with him before, but I pray and I hope to because I think he's one of the best basketball minds I've ever witnessed. What was it like being later in your career and being a vet to a young guy like Rajon Rondo with those Boston Celtics?

Oh man, my first practice I came, After trade deadline and my first practice, just watching the kid, it's his second year, his leadership quality, man, his thought process of the game of basketball was unbelievable. Like, it's unbelievable. And Kevin, Paul, Ray, PJ Brown, myself, we was hard on him. We was very hard on him because I said, man, And he was like, he didn't wanna hear a lot of things. But when I, me personally, when I talked to him, he understood it. I said, listen, man, you have a, you got an opportunity that a lot of players would never have. You playing with 3 first ballot Hall of Famers. Facts.

Facts.

3 first ballot Hall of Famers. I said, listen, man, when they leave, you gonna see what you miss. So right now, Take the bullshit they giving you right now. Just take it. Just take it. But when they leave, you gonna realize what you lost. Fast forward, they gone to Brooklyn.

Yeah.

Now he's there by himself. He call me, "Old school." He call me old school. Him and Perk call me old school. "You was right, old school. Goddamn." I said, "It's different throwing the ball to Ray Allen, 3-ball." Throwing the ball to Paul, 3 ball. Throwing, making a pocket pass to KG, 15-foot jump shot. That's great. Now you got, I don't know who you had on his team, but he had them kind of guys on his team. And now his assist numbers are going down, his steal numbers going down, and he's not winning big as he won. Think about it, he won 55 games for like 4 straight years back then. Mm-hmm. 55 to 60. 39 to 40, you know how it is.

It's a big drop off.

It's a big drop off, champ.

You know how it is.

You got something to do.

70 series, you win 65, then you like, "Damn, we at 47 right now." Yeah, 47.

Guess what? One of the years, obviously everybody was out, we won 15 games in 2020.

And I don't care how many times, how much you win, that's a mental toll right there.

Oh, it's brutal.

That's driving to the game knowing, when you winning 70, y'all won 70+ games, you driving to the game, you know you gonna win. He know music blasting, you know what I'm saying? When you ride to the game and you might, and you like, damn, this can be hard.

No, no, no. Ain't no, this can be hard. I know we about to lose.

You don't wanna think it, but you know, realistically you like, damn, that motherfucker.

Tough tonight.

They had a day off. We come off a back to back.

Start putting all that together.

We came in, we lost in double overtime.

Facts.

You know what I'm saying? All that takes a toll on your mind mentally, man. But back to Rondo, man, he was, he a bad boy. I think he should be a Hall of Famer, me personally.

Yeah, I agree.

Man, that's my guy, though, my guy, man. Like, he was tough, you know, the battles him and Doc had, man, it was just, Doc was just trying to coach him. He was the thoroughbred and Doc was just trying to coach him. And sometimes Doc would throw him outta practice. I'm 38, 39 years old at this time. I know when he got thrown outta practice, "Now I gotta practice now, you know what I'm saying?" Yeah. "Sam, turn over Green. You gonna run the show." "No, shit, I'm ride this bike all night. I don't wanna be practicing, you know what I'm saying? Shit, chill out." You know, one day I went to go get him. I said, "Come on, Doe, he come back, he come back." And one day Doc, I'm like, "Don't go get him. Let him go. I'm gonna coach you all day." They going back and forth, but they had a great relationship. 'Cause Doe was a young basketball player and he was gonna be good. I told everybody, "He's gonna be good. "Draymond Green can be good, but he can't shoot." I said, "It don't matter. It don't matter if you can't shoot. He gonna get you 12 points and 13 assists and 8 rebounds." He was a damn near triple-double, especially when the Big Three, when they left. Yeah. He was really doing his thing.

Absolutely.

He was 2-time All-Star when they left.

Yep. That's a fact.

So he was doing his thing.

Absolutely. I wanna switch gears a little bit. And you kind of just went into it a little bit, but to your coaching career. And I wanna start, I wanna move backwards. I wanna start where you are today. As I said, not on camera, but congratulations.

Thank you, man.

NBA champion again. But I wanna ask you one in particular. You just won a coach, I mean, you just won a championship, Joe Mazzulla, the head coach. You've coached with Doc Rivers. Doc, much older now. Joe, if I'm not mistaken, the youngest coach in the NBA, if not very close to it. Yes, I just turned 36. Okay. What was it that you saw that you said, you know what, I feel like that's the place for me to go? Because you know, you've, you would never need a job. One of, if not the best assistant in the league. Opportunities to go everywhere, were with Philly, have been rolling with Doc, and now Doc's your guy. And then you decide to go over there, ends up being championship really fast. But I think my question is, what were some of the differences that you had to adjust to in being with Doc for so long, who's an older coach, established, been around, And then now you going to a young Joe Mazzulla where obviously you got respect for him as the head coach, but you also have been around way longer. Your knowledge of the NBA game goes way deep. What was that adjustment like and some of the differences and similarities in those two?

It was easy. Doc is an alpha dog. You know what I'm saying? Doc gonna do things the way he's gonna do 'em 'cause he has success. But Doc also, take advice. You know, sometimes when I say, "Hey man, that's it, chill out." You know, "Here, chill out." Just like that. All right, they had enough. You know, you beat 'em up too much. But guys that I know for a fact that Doc has helped with their basketball career, Montrezl Harrell, best year ever.

Oh yeah.

Best year ever on Doc.

Yeah. Lou Will. Absolutely.

Best year ever with Doc. You know what I'm saying? DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin. These guys had their best careers with Doc. Paul Pierce, their best career with Doc. You know what I'm saying? When I got with Joe Mazzulla, Joe was so young and Joe didn't, Billy didn't have the knowledge of how to deal with the NBA ball player. Didn't have the knowledge. And the X's and O's, how to prepare his team to play, oh, he got that.

Uh-huh.

He's got that, man. Our locker room, our coach's locker room is, I know it's like no other locker room. You know what I'm saying? We do things a little different in Boston. You know, we do things a little different as a coaching staff. Everyone has their opinion. Our coaching staff has their opinion. And, but it's Joe's ultimate decision and we roll with it. We roll with it. If I don't like it, I just don't like it. But I'm not gonna say, I told you so.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, run with it. At least, hey, on to next game. People just don't know Joe Mazzulla. They just don't know him.

That's right.

They just don't know him. Excellent coach. Great dude. Great person, man. Great. He allows me to be me. Doc allowed me to be me. You know what I'm saying? But Joe is so much younger than me. And I just like, hey man, my whole thing is getting, With him, it's enjoy this process. Enjoy it, man. It's a hell of a ride. Enjoy it. We work hard, we do things different, we prepare hard, and we get the most outta our ball club. He does a great job of getting the most outta his ball club. He's not a big yeller. He just states facts. He just states facts.

Mm-hmm.

Y'all want to win a championship? Let's go try to win a championship. This is what y'all said y'all wanted to do. Let's go win a championship. All right, but you can't be bullshitting.

Facts.

10 games in 15 nights. Let's win all 10 of them. Let's try to win all 10 of them. Let's not use, don't take the coward way of, well, we kind of tired. You know what I'm saying? Well, come on bench. Y'all wanna play? Everybody wanna play until it's time to play. Facts.

You know what I'm saying? Facts.

Everybody wanna play that game. The 11th man on the team, he wanna play until it's time to play. Okay, it's your time now. And this year our guys stepped up. Our guys stepped up. We lost to y'all in—

'22.

We lost to y'all this season.

Oh yes. I came back. Yeah.

We did the whole game. Y'all came back.

I was kicked out that game. I watched it on TV.

Y'all came back. Steph made some crazy shots. You know, we was up big, came back. And we came in as staff, said we had to say, we didn't motherfuck 'em, you know what I'm saying? Next day go to Sacramento, we knew they was gonna be in trouble.

Mm-hmm.

So our guys, we knew we gave one away. We gave a game away. We didn't give it away, y'all took it. As Joe Mazzulla like to put it, "No, you don't give games away." They took it. We ain't letting Sacramento take it from us. Went down there, JT didn't play and we beat the brakes off of 'em.

By 30.

We beat the brakes off of 'em. But it's how the game of basketball goes. It's so unpredictable. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. But we put forth the effort and energy, man. But Draymond's been great with me. He's been, you know, he wants me to get a head coach job, bad as in anyone. You know what I'm saying? He thinks I deserve it. But you know, when the time comes, I'll be ready. You know what I'm saying? I'm not giving up. I still love this. I love to see guys like Shea. I worked with Shea when he first came to the league. And Tyrese Maxey, when the whole NBA say he can't shoot. And I was like, what the fuck are they looking at? What are they looking at? A guy with that great rotation on his shot and can't shoot? Gotta be crazy.

Yeah.

Gotta be crazy. They just need the reps. Game reps, NBA reps. His rookie year, we didn't give him game reps because Ben Simmons was playing all-star, all-pro basketball.

Yes, he was.

By far. Yes, he was. By far. So Maxie had to wait. But while he was waiting, he in the lab with one of the kings. You know what I'm saying? He in the lab with me every day. Every day. If you can ask him, I was on him every day. We gonna get better every day. So when it's time to come, you can ask him. When it's time to come, you can be ready. I told Maxie after his second year, I said, "You're gonna be a max ball player one day." He thought I was crazy. You think so, G? I said, "Trust me, I seen it." I told John Wall, I told Bradley Bill, I told Shea. When I told Shea SJ that, he was like, "Come on." He called me Pops. "Come on, Pops, seriously?" I said, "You're gonna be one of the baddest guards in the NBA 'cause we haven't seen a guard like that." Shawn Livingston was 6'7", but Shawn Livingston couldn't score like him. That's a fact.

Fact.

I had Shawn Livingston his second year in the NBA with the Clippers. But Shawn wasn't Shea. Shea has the ability to score from the 3-point line. He's a 3-level scorer, as I put it.

Absolutely.

3 points, mid-range, you know. I told him one time, he said, he told me, he said, "Man, they don't want me to shoot the mid-range shot." Oklahoma. I was like, if you allow the people to take the best thing you do in your game away from you, you crazy. This is the best thing you got right now. Your 15-foot pull-up jump shot. You 6'7" shooting against a 6'1" guy. All that guy can do is hope you miss. He ain't gonna affect it.

Can't make you miss.

And he's All-Pro 2 years, runner-up for MVP. You know what I'm saying? So the sky's the limit for these guys. For that guy, man.

Absolutely. And I wanna ask you some questions about you as a head coach. But before I ask that question, like I said, you just coached Boston Celtics to a championship. And I got a lot of love for JT. He's my young dog. He's my little brother. And I would oftentimes all year speak on, JT and how the MVP threshold and all these things, they kind of move on him.

The goalposts move on him all the time.

It's crazy. All the time. It's like, oh, you gotta be winning, you gotta be winning. And then it's like, oh, you won too much. Like, so you ain't won a championship, but you've won too much. So you gotta do something else now. And like the goalposts just continues to move on him. And I've spoke about that. But this year he was different. It was almost as if he didn't give a damn about winning MVP or even if they said his name in MVP conversation.

Mm-hmm.

But he still played with that same tenacity as if he wanted to be, wants to be an MVP. It's that same consistency. But there was a calmness in his game that when they're double teaming him in the NBA Finals, he got 11 assists in the first half.

Right.

You know, making the play, like—

Making the right plays.

No, like literally getting to the rim or getting to the paint and realize the guy already stepped up. Don't even look at the rim, I'm making the next play. And it was so beautiful to watch. Can you talk to me what that was like up close and personal and watching him this year and kind of how he approached this year, which ultimately led to him winning his first championship.

He don't get the credit that I think he should get because he sacrificed so much. He averaged 30 points last year.

Yes, he did.

Averaged 30 points. And guys who average 30 points wanna come back the next year average 31 points.

Absolutely.

But for us to win, championship, we added Porzingis, Drew Holiday. So we added better offensive players on our ball club.

Yeah.

He sacrificed so much. He gave up 5 points, which is a lot of points. That's a lot. A lot of points. Gave it up. That's 8 shots a night. Gave it up for the betterment for our ball club. We didn't need him to score 30 points. Some nights we need him to score 40 points. Yeah. Some nights. But how our team is made up, we don't need no one to score 40 points. If that night happens to score 40 points, we gonna ride it. Mm-hmm. The thing that people don't understand about Jayson Tatum, he wants to win. He's not a rah-rah guy. He's not a guy who shows a lot of emotions. But when he shows emotions, I love it.

Yeah.

I love it.

Yeah.

I love it. I didn't know him that much until I got to Boston. I started working with him. He's been great to me, great to Joe. He's our leader. He's the guy who, game 2 in the finals, he just picked Dallas apart and Jrue Holiday was our leading scorer.

Yep.

You know? Imagine somebody bet on that and say, "Is Jrue Holiday gonna be the leading scorer in game 2?" Imagine how much money they made on that. You know what I'm saying? But he did so much for our ball club. Rebounded the ball. I was always telling him, "You gotta rebound more. You have to rebound more." And conscious effort, he did it.

Yep.

You gotta stop settling for 3 sometimes. You got so much left in this game. His game, he's so young, he's 26 now. His game's still growing. He's still growing. He ain't 30 yet. And he's so good with his teammates. He's so good with his teammates. Man, this year, you know, and Porzingis, like I said, JT might be our number one option. JB might be number two or 1A, 1B, whatever you wanna put it. But we got the best, Third option in the NBA, Pizzingas. The best third option, you know what I'm saying? He get, you can't play a small guy on him 'cause he's gonna kill a small individual. You put a big on in the drop coverage, he gonna shoot the lights off the ball. You know what I'm saying? He's gonna protect the rim. So our makeup of our team was so good and we played hard.

Yeah.

That's Joe Mazzulla. Practice with music on, loud music, you know what I'm saying? You know, young boys, you know, that younger boy music. But this year I told Joe, we're gonna have some OG music, you know what I'm saying? One day of practice, just one day. You know what I'm saying? Just one day, you know what I'm saying? One day.

May not happen, but I'm gonna try. Get the vibes right in that place.

I'm gonna try. But man, listen, man, it was a joy. But like you said, they moved the goalposts on this guy so, so much, man. But when he say he don't care, he really don't. He just wanna win.

Absolutely.

You see what y'all did? He wants that feeling. He wants to be a 3-time, 4-time NBA champion. And I think we have the team that we stay— health is everything. We both know that. And we got opportunity to do that. And we don't need to talk about the repeat. We just wanna enjoy the process. It's the process. You know what I'm saying? Y'all won the 72 games. I'm like, man, we— now what? Now what? You know what I'm saying? We just wanna enjoy the process of this whole situation. And him being who he is, man, like, in the Olympics right now. They gonna win, hopefully they win gold. They better win gold, shit.

They will.

They better win gold.

Yes, sir.

And like you said, he had a great year. You know, he having a great year, man. And that whole team deserves it. It's not all about Jason Taylor. He'll tell you, this a team. We are a team, a good basketball team.

I wanna talk more about, before we get outta here, not only your journey through coaching, but your journey through what has been multiple times, to me, as it seems, your name coming up in these head coach searches. Because like I said, I don't think you can get an argument outta anybody, if many people, if anybody, of where you stand as assistant coaches in the NBA. Mm-hmm. Who you are, who you were as a player, your resume speaks for itself. And yet to me, these are my words, not yours. But to me, I think it's bullshit that your name just keep coming up because these guys don't be as proven as you, as players or coaches. Mm-hmm. Not as respected, but for some reason, still not a head coach. What's it been like on these journeys, in these interviews, meeting with these owners, meeting with these general managers, and then ultimately falling short every time it comes around?

It's crazy, man. Like, hmm. It's been, it's a hard question to answer. You know what I'm saying? I have the experience. I know what buttons to push, get the best out of players. Can I be hard on players?

Absolutely.

Ask the guys that I have coached, can I be hard on them? But being hard on them don't mean you get the best production out of them.

Absolutely.

It don't mean you get the best production. You got to know someone off the court to really understand them. I remember I was watching The Last Dance and I seen Phil Jackson and Dennis Rodman. They just vibing. And Dennis said, "He took the time to know who I am off this court. He took the time to find out who I am off this court." court. I heard Michael Jordan say about Phil, took the time to find out who I am off this court. 'Cause on the court, I'm gonna be who I am. Find out who I am. So Phil knew the right buttons to push with Dennis Rodman, who was back then was a wild boy. You know what I'm saying? But when he came to work, he came to work. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And of course me not getting a head coaching job, I'm not giving up.

Yeah.

I'm not giving up.

Good.

'Cause I love, I love, I love this shit. I love the game of basketball. You can ask anybody in Boston, when I come to work, I never have a bad day. Even though I might have a bad moment before I come into the office. You know, we all have families. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

You know, I might have a bad moment, but I don't bring my bad moments to that basketball court with my players. 'Cause I know my players might have a bad day. So if I'm miserable, not miserable, if I'm not in the right state of mind and they're not in the right state of mind, we not getting nothing accomplished. So I always have a great attitude around the facility. I go around every day, I speak to everybody with our traveling party, the trainers, the equipment manager, I speak to everybody. You know, what's up y'all? You guys, anybody on that staff. What's up? 'Cause I understand that means something. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? 'Cause I'm coming to a new staff and they don't, they really didn't know, they don't know who I am. You know, they heard and all of 'em say, "Oh man, X, Sam's a great dude. Knows the game of basketball." I know how to push and get the best outta players. You know what I'm saying? I'm just not, I'm not a yes me man and that may, That may hurts me, you know what I'm saying? I'm not a guy who, I'm gonna put this, I'm a company man, but I'm gonna do things the way I think it should be done.

Absolutely. You know?

Absolutely. Somebody else, I'm not gonna, you earn playing time, you don't just get playing time. I think not someone is afraid of that aspect of me, you know what I'm saying? I'm just not giving up coaching this thing. I love it too much. You know what I'm saying? I got the respect of the players and I know how to get the best outta players.

Before we go, when you look at your journey, I truly in my heart believe that you will be a head coach in this league.

Yes, one day.

But when you look at your journey and as you know, the drastic differences where teams can lie. A team can be super young with no experience.

Mm-hmm.

A la Detroit Pistons.

Mm-hmm.

And you could have a team that's getting older with a ton of experience, a la Los Angeles Lakers, Golden State Warriors.

Mm-hmm.

When you look at your journey, all that you've gone through, If you could pick and you said, I'd rather start with one of these teams that don't know much and help those guys get to the top. Or I'd rather take one of these teams that could be right on the cusp on either side of the hill. Mm-hmm.

Because—

Good or bad. Yeah.

Good or bad.

In 2022, they said we were on the cusp. Mm-hmm. They said we were on the wrong side of the hill. We won a championship, right? So on the cusp was on the cusp. Or would you prefer a team like that to where you can help push them to that championship right away?

It don't matter. It don't matter. I've been, I coached the Washington Wizards.

Yeah.

My first 5 years in coaching. We won my first year, I think 18 games. Next year, 20 games. Third year, 24 games. And my fifth year there, we won 47 games and made it to the playoffs, won the first round. So I've been through every aspect of coaching. I seen the good, I seen the bad, I seen the real bad. You know what I'm saying? And as a coach, it humbled me. I just grew as an individual. I seen, I'll tell you a story. John Wall, his rookie year. He lost 8 games from high school to college, 2 years. He came to my room one day, I know he was in Cleveland. We 5 and like 25, bad year. He knocked on my door, I said, "Oh, who? What's going on?" John Wall, in tears, in tears crying. He lost 25 games, it ain't December yet. He lost 25 games. It ain't December yet. He asked me, say, "OG, is it gonna get any better?" And you ask any guys I ever coached, I'm not gonna lie to you. I ain't gonna lie to you. I ain't gonna lie to you. I said, I looked him in the face, I come on, I broke him in the room, I said, "No." And guess what, J Dub? I throw him a towel, went in the bathroom, throw him a towel, wipe your face, man. I say, It's gonna be bad next year too. But we gotta grow.

Absolutely.

You gotta keep working.

Absolutely.

You gotta keep working. 'Cause if you don't, if you stop working with this, it's gonna get real, real bad. You the number one pick in the draft now. You the number one pick in the draft. And the city of DC thinks that you're gonna bring a title to this city. Well, the owners did. I didn't think that. I didn't think that. I knew that he needed more pieces. And I'm telling you, the one that got away from us is Klay Thompson. I wanted them to draft Klay Thompson. I wanted the Wizards to draft Klay Thompson. Klay had the trouble with his background with that old boy with the weed shit in college and shit.

Yeah, smoked a joint, man. Give it a break, man.

Like, but John needed, A guy who's a flat out shooter.

Yeah. Yes.

When I seen Klay Thompson shoot the basketball, I remember I delayed the way Flip, I said, "Flip, that's the guy. That's what we need. Him right there. That's what John Wall needs." We drafted Jon Wesley. You know, I never knew him. I think Wesley was a decent ball player. He's no Klay Thompson. Not at all. John Wall needed shooting. So I saw, that's the best thing about me. I know what a team needs. Yeah. Been around this 32 years. You know, 4 champions. I won 4 championships. Been to what, 6 conference, 7 conference finals. So I know what winning look like. But I also know what losing look like.

Absolutely.

I know what losing look like. I look at the personnel, our team personnel like, whew. This ain't gonna be good. This is not gonna be good. But I'm not gonna stop teaching. It's all about teaching. Any player I would work with, they say, "Oh man, OG know what the hell he talking about." All I'm looking for is a chance to show the world that I can coach an NBA ball club. That's all.

I respect it.

Simple.

I respect it, man. I appreciate you.

Man, thanks for having me.

Been looking forward to this. Chopping it up with you. You always, like I said, you always kept it real with me. I can't thank you enough.

And thanks for that jersey too. Thank you for that jersey. Yes, sir.

I forgot the one here, but as soon as we got here, I gotta get it to him. I gotta get it to him. I got it. I got it.

Yes, sir.

Man, I appreciate you. And by the way, good luck. And for whatever it's worth, you a fucking head coach in my book. I know it's gonna happen for you. Keep going. They can't keep denying you.

I ain't stopping.

Why stop now?

It's too much fun.

Yeah, it's fun.

Seeing you guys do y'all thing, it's too much fun.

Absolutely. That's a wrap from Resort World here in Vegas. Peace.