Shaq on Kobe Bryant’s mentality, fighting Dwyane Wade, ‘Inside the NBA’ stories | Draymond Green

Welcome to the brand new Draymond Green Show YouTube channel. Hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any of our content. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. As you all know, the inner child in me is at Disney World right now. Excited as hell to be doing this interview. I like to do intros and name off accolades. I'll be sitting here forever trying to name these accolades. So not going to do that, but would like to welcome none other than the one and only Shaq Diesel, Shaqstradamus, The Big Cactus. And the list goes on and on. My man Shaq, what's up, brother?

I'm not talking to you until you address me as my correct name. The Black Steph Curry.

The Black Steph Curry. There it is. We got another one just like that. We got another one. Nah, man, number one, I wanna say thank you. Like I said, just what you've meant to me and my life from afar. I was just telling Travis when we was on the way over here, like, I still remember the first time I ever met you and the picture we took. At Staples Center and you was looking the other way and shit.

I was?

Yeah.

You know, you know. My bad though.

Looking the other way. My bad though. Hey, I did not think anything of it. I was happy as hell to get the picture.

But— Before we get started, I wanna say I've always appreciated the way you play.

Thank you.

You know, we always get in this conversation about us and them. You play like us, big dog. I know you wasn't 6'8", 6'9". How tall are you?

6'6".

Okay.

Yeah.

I know you wasn't 6'8", 6'9", but you always played really big for your size. I appreciate the way you play all the texts and files and all that bullshit. That's what you gotta do to win. And at the end of the day, you got 4 of them things and that's all that matters. So I wanna say, I appreciate you.

No doubt.

And the way that you played.

Thank you. Thank you, man. That mean a lot to me. So just in getting into it, number 1, I wanna ask you about your approach in TV because what I've seen is so many guys get up there and I try to be sure that I'm not doing it myself. But so many times you see guys get up there and they wanna throw stones, you know? And in specific, you get former players getting up there throwing stones at guys, acting as if they weren't players. But we always say, once you're a player, you are always a player. And you get so many guys that just go up there throwing stones, not standing up for guys. Acting like they were perfect when they played, as if they ain't never do it. And you always take the opposite approach. Can you talk to me first off just about that?

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We all get criticized. You know, I was told one day, if there's some truth in the criticism, you have to look at it different. Like, Shaq could have been the greatest player ever, but he wasn't a great free throw shooter. Can't get mad at that. There's truth in that, right? So when I criticize players, I try to put some truth in it. Like, for 10, 15 years, people think that I hate Dwight. I actually really love Dwight. Little bit of me, probably a little bit more athletic and jump higher. I would always say, you gotta average 28-10. I would always say, you're not dominating. So hopefully he would get the message and say, fuck you, Shaq. This is what I gotta do. That's what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did to me. When I first got to LA, I was putting up historical numbers and we was getting swept. And Kareem said one day, they said, Shaq, man, Shaq's gonna be a great player like you. He said, Is he really that great? They're not winning. And he has G14 classification to say that. And you know, I could have took it as a jab, like, "Kareem, you just hatin' 'cause I'm averaging more points than you and I make more money." But I was like, you know what? He gave me the lesson inside the criticism. So when I criticize, I just try to give the lesson. And you know, sometimes people take it the right way and sometimes people don't. But people like me and you, we have G14 classification. We know what it takes to play at a certain level and we know what it takes to win the championship 4 times. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So a lot of times when we say something, like, I know what the fuck I'm talking about. So, and then a lot of times I test people out. My motherfucker soft, just to see what I'm dealing with. Same thing I did to Kobe.

Mm-hmm.

Same thing I did to Penny. Same thing I did to D-Wade. And if you respond and turn into greatness, I know I'm dealing with a fucking dog.

Mm-hmm.

Like I jumped on Donovan one time and he kind of, he kind of went. So I knew that I had to handle him with, with, with, you know, kitten gloves. But so a lot of times I try to criticize and give you the answers. And a lot of times I just try to just say something hateful just to see who you are. Because again, I would want to listen to a guy like me. 'Cause you know what? The best thing I did was listen to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. And he said, "That motherfucker, he great, but he ain't that great. And he ain't winning." And I'm looking up at the fucking jerseys. I'm like, "Fuck, he right. I gotta start winning." You know, so, you know, I, I try to protect the guys as, you know, much as possible. But people like us, we don't, we don't have to hate. Like, we, we actually know what we're talking about. And, you know, sometimes guys understand it and sometimes they don't. Like the other day, and this went viral, I don't know why it went viral. Joker is my guy. I've always talked great about Joker, right?

Absolutely.

And I said to him, I said, Joker, I want you to hear this from me so other people like Shannon Sharp don't get on their fucking podcast and twist it trying to make it look like I'm hating. And I said, yo, you the best big man in the league. You're my favorite player. You're the vice president of the big man alliance. However, I think SGA should have got MVP. Like, when you're a man and, you know, you're dealing with another man, respect is a must. Mm-hmm. Like, Draymond, you shouldn't have kicked him in his balls. I'm not hating. I'm just saying, bro, they need you for the next game. You should— it ain't like I'm hating. So, you know, for— so for people who, don't try to understand the clarity that we have and they try to make it something different. So I'm glad you asked that question. So again, to your answer, I try to criticize but give you the answers to the test. Like, hey, Dwight, you wanna be dominant, average 28-10. And you know, hey, Donovan, you ain't no superstar yet. Like, I want you to sometimes say, fuck Shaq, and just go do what you do. Because if we protect this thing of ours, Guys gonna be making $80, $90 million. They say that when this next deal come around, Luka gonna be making $80 million. That ain't because of me, that's 'cause of Draymond Green. He gave it to Mike. Mike gave it to me. I gave it to Bron. Bron gave it to y'all. Y'all about to give it to Luka. Luka about to give it to Wimbyana. So we have to make sure that, you know, all these guys play at a high level. And the ones that really take it as hate, the ones that don't understand, I don't really care.

You just mentioned Donovan when you said he wasn't a superstar yet. Is he a superstar now? Has he crossed that now? 'Cause that was like 2, 3 years ago when you said that.

He's close. And you know, as you know, there's a fine line between a star and a superstar. Absolutely. He's close. I would like to see him dominate more. Any guy that can put up numbers anytime he wants shows me that you're a puppy, but you can be trained to be a mean dog. You ever see a bunch of puppies and you looking at that one puppy that's going, "Grrr." That's the one you always pick. 'Cause you be like, "If he's aggressive right now, I could train him to be more aggressive." So like when I went at him, I made it seem like a diss, but I wanted him to respond and be like, "Okay, watch this." Because that's what all the greats do.

I sit back and I still watch you today like I watched you when I was a kid. Only difference is then you were playing the game of basketball and now we're all watching you crush the game of life from a business perspective, just from a legend and everything that you do, we're watching you do it at the highest level. And I admire that. And one question that I have for you is how is it that you have stayed human? And when I say stayed human, here's what I'm saying. You are 7'1", 300+ pounds, African American man. So you're already bigger than everyone. That's a strike against you in height and mass. You're a Black man in America. That's a strike against you. You are a legend. Most people won't believe it., but that's actually a strike against you because people put you on a pedestal. They want to tear you off the pedestal. Everything that you do is gonna be criticized. How is it that you have stayed human to people, like approachable? You know, no one's like, people see you and they're like, oh my God. And like, when I see you with people, you're immediately able to break that ice. Like how have you stayed that through the success and through all of the things that are up against you? Just naturally because of who you are and the way that you look?

You know, when I first got drafted, I was making a lot of money, and I took my mom to a restaurant. I was acting Big Willie. I was acting like I was the shit. And my mother was disappointed, and she said, "Son, it cost you nothing to be nice." So I dropped the arrogant thing, you know? 'Cause, you know, coming from where we come from, we didn't have anything, and now I got it. So, "This is my world. You gonna do what the fuck I—" You know, all that attitude. She's like, "It cost you nothing to be nice." And then one time I was in LA and I was at a restaurant and I saw a superstar. I'm not gonna say his name, but a kid came and asked him for autograph. He fucking made the kid cry. And I always said to myself, if I ever get to superstar status, I'm gonna always take care of the kids. My mama said, "Be nice." I'm going to take care of my family. Everything I do is for my family, especially my mother. You know, we play the game of basketball and they pay us a lot of money. From 2 to 17, it hit me when I first got drafted, my mom never had her own house. Like she never really had her own house. And like, you know, they, and you know, our parents, they give us the basics. Be respectful, go to school, get this education, and make sure you always work hard. That was, you know, the basics for our family. So when I said to myself, you know what, I'm about to buy my mom a house. Right? I'm about to buy my dad this Mercedes, the same 600 Mercedes I got. I'm about to take care of my bro. I'm about to take care of my family. Now, there's many ways to lose that, and you know the ways to lose that, so you stay away from that and you lean towards the stuff that keeps it. You know, start businesses. You know, educate yourself on, you know, financial stability, on, you know, financial wealth. Everything I do is for my family. And now that I have 7 children now, I have to do and I have to say the right thing. Good thing about me and my crew is if I happen to get offline, they can check me. Like I did a little AI diss record. My mom wasn't happy with that, so I'm done with it. I ain't gonna say nothing else about it. So, you know, that's, you know, another attribute I have is I always listen. You know the world famous Uncle Jerome?

Absolutely.

Only one that could turn my motor off. Like he'd tell you, you bullshitting. Like I used to, you know, I got tired of dunking and go to my jump hook. So every now and then I like to shoot the fadeaway and I may miss 4, but as soon as I fucking hit one, I look at him and be like, "Don't nobody wanna see that shit. Fuck that. Don't shoot that dumbass shit." So, you know, you have to listen sometimes and you have to, you know, follow your goals and you have to stick to your principles. You know, my mother is an avid TV watcher. I would never want her sitting down seeing me do something crazy. And then FOTM, don't fuck off the money. Mm-hmm. Do not fuck off the money. So I try to do the right thing. I try to say the right thing. And I'm just being nice. I'm 50 years old. There's no need for me to be arrogant towards anybody that looks up to me. No need for me to be arrogant towards anybody. You know, if you approach me the wrong way, I know how to re-approach you with that same energy. But listen, I'm a nice guy. I've fulfilled all my dreams. You know, all my children, hate using this word, but I have 7 perfect children. Like, they don't give me no problems. A couple in college, couple graduated. Shout out to my nephew Miles Bailey, he just graduated. I'm gonna help him get in law school. So, you know, the family is very important to me. So again, I just try to do and just try to say the right thing, you know, keep my mouth shut. I don't get into the gossip mess and all that, and I just try to make people smile.

You did the unthinkable. We've seen a couple guys attempt to do it then. I think the latest and most popular was Big Baller Brand with the Ball family. You started Shaq, the apparel line, sneakers, clothes, and starting that as a household name, as the Shaquille O'Neal, most dominant player we've ever seen play. I remember 6th grade, a pair of shoes that my grandfather bought me from Kmart, I wanna say, was the Shaqs. They were the kind of all white with the black down the middle, like through the sole, through the tongue. Kinda had like a, and $30. As a household name, as when people say premium, like you wanna do, premium things. You said, no, I'm gonna have these $30 sneakers. Number one, how did you accomplish that? Because you're going up against Nike. You're now the president of Reebok, owner and president of Reebok, Adidas. You're going up against all these brands and you say, no, I'm gonna go do my own. Help me understand, how did you go about that process? Who did you do it with? To help you understand the marketing and the distribution and all of those things initially to start it?

So one day me and my cousin Kenny, we're leaving practice in Orlando Magic. And Orlando Magic was the first arena they had, was in the hood. So they used to come out, Shaq, Shaq. Matter of fact, Marquise Daniels, when I was playing with him with Boston one time, he said, yo man, you don't remember me? And I said no. And he showed me a picture. He was one of those kids that used to always come and get autographed jerseys and get tickets and all that. Yeah. So one day, me and my cousin Kenny, we walking out the back, and this lady, she's coming, she's, you know, dragging her son, and she's not smiling. The boy's Shaq, Shaq. She's not smiling. And she's like, you motherfucker. And I was like, what'd I do? I don't know you. You motherfuckers got these high-ass motherfucking sneakers. My baby, you know, he want these fucking high-ass Reeboks, and I can't afford them. So you know me, I had a couple stacks. I was like, ma'am, I don't do the price point. Here's the money. And she smacked the money out my hand. I don't want that. Won't you motherfuckers make an affordable shoe? And I'm riding in the car and I'm thinking, I was like, that was my mom and me. I asked my dad for some Jordans one time, that motherfucker looked at me like, man, you better get the fuck out my face. He looked at me like that. I had to cut grass and fucking wash car and sell lemonade and all that bullshit. And then by the time I got my $110, I was a size 15. I bought some 13s. That's why my toe's all fucked up. I ain't gonna show my toes on camera. That's something like, I tried to squeeze in those Jordans. So all that shit was going back to me and I said, you know what? Call Reebok and tell 'em after this, I'm gonna do my own thing. So if you look at this brand right here, and we're all creatures, creatures of our environment.

Jordan has the what? The Jumpman.

And this is the Dunkman. So when I was in college one time, the professor said, create something that you can see being sold in the future. And you know me, Shaq shirt, Shaq drawers, Shaq socks. So I, you know, I was in marketing class, I was in business class, so I patented the Dunkman, 'cause that's how I dunk. I try to put my nuts in your face. So this right here, Dunkman, was created in '89, '90. And I was going, and then I was talking to my dad about it. I was like, this shit might not work. I'm going up against these powerhouses. And he said something. He said, there's more poor people than there are rich people. I was like, shit. So, you know, I think it only worked because I was a household name. You know, of course you had Jordan and all those guys, but I was saying, I'm Shaq. And the only thing that took me a while to get is even though they're $30, you can't make them look like they're $30. Because you know how we get fucking criticized in the hood. And like, people always hear stories how people used to get bullied for wearing my shoes. That's because their mindset wasn't right. Mm-hmm. I never made shoes that look like $30.

Yeah.

I even went over to China and be like, "Motherfucker, I want the same leather. I want the same everything." So I just tried to keep the price point down. And that's why I did that, 'cause, you know, it was the right thing to do. And, you know, when it was Reebok, another person, then me. Now it's just me and the shoe manufacturer guy. So, you know, if you could go with Walmart, who has, 50,000 stores. Kmart got that. And then it was a, it was a no-brainer. And then you get with all these companies and they say, okay, uh, we, we don't want the Shaq brand. I'll say, okay, so I'll just create the Dunkman brand. So Dunkman was at Kmart and Shaq was at Walmart. And I was just— and I just sat back. It wasn't like, you know, because listen, back then I've— when I first came in, brother, I had so much money I didn't need no more money. So I was like, if I don't make money cool. But, you know, I got a report one day, I said, bro, you done sold— since you started this, you done sold 250. It's up to about 400 million pair now. But now we're— I got this new company and we coming with that funk now. We about to— so we, we were downstairs, so we're about to come mid-level and then, you know, even, even, you know, upstairs. Because Magic Johnson said something to me very important. He said, it's okay to to be the man, but at some point you wanna start owning things. Well, this is what I own, this is mine. And you know, a lot of people like it and respect it. And I'm gonna keep giving them stuff that looks good, but at a price that they can afford.

In 2016, a friend of mine introduced me to Authentic Brand Groups. I had no clue what the fuck it was, what they did, what it meant. How you go about it. As I've gained more business knowledge and contacts, I've learned more about what it is. And when I was, uh, uh, introduced to Authentic Brands Group, I was actually introduced to it by, this is who Shaq just partnered with. And I thought it was a very interesting lesson for me because it was, this is who Shaq just partnered with. Not this is who Shaq just sold his company to. Can you walk me through that process of you partner with Authentic Brand Groups but necessarily didn't take all cash or something?

Yeah, so ever since a youngster, jealousy motivates me. Jealous of Steph Curry. I wish I could fucking shoot like that. I'm jealous of Klay. I wish my jump shot was that motherfucking pretty. Like, I'm jealous of Draymond Green. He's almost a billionaire, I'm not. Instead of taking that jealousy and turning into hate, it turns into motivation. So I'm walking down Hollywood Boulevard and I'm like, how the fuck does Elvis, who's been dead for 60 years, still make money? So now I start studying, because bro, I'm walking down Hollywood, every fucking store, bro, Elvis shirts, hats. And this was towards the end of Shaq, and you know how it is towards the end, the fuckers act like they forget who you are.

Absolutely.

I'm like, you know what, fuck that, I wanna live forever. So I'm seeing all this Elvis and Marilyn Monroe shit. Did my research, and I met with 2 companies. I was like, hey, I wanna, you know, this is who I am and this is what I built, you know, me, Mike, and Perry, and then Colin and Leonard Armato. This is what we built. Would you be interested in, you know, doing a partnership with it? And the first company's like, yeah, we want to buy it, we want to own it. I said, how much you talking? Nope. And then, you know, I've met with, you know, Authentic Brands. They said, hey, yeah, we want to buy it, want to be your partners. I said, well, can I invest in your company? So they wrote me a big check, and I wrote them a big check, and now I'm the number 2 And basically what this does is just make sure my name lives forever. And if it doesn't live forever, all the brands that we own, my business still lives together. And again, it's all about family. I have 7 kids. You know, my kids got mad at me because I, you know, I did a little speech and I was trying to be funny, but I was serious. We're not rich.

Right.

I'm rich. So I want them to be able to work and understand. And, you know, because like I always show them what respectable nepotism is. I took my second son Sharif with me to a business conference, and he was amazed that the Walmart family will make every member that wants to be— would I work with the family— they'll make them take an aptitude test. And however you score on the test, that's where you're going to start at. So one guy who's a part of Walmart family, was very wealthy, he's like, I didn't take the test seriously, so my uncle made me shovel shit for 2 years. At the horse farm, but teaching them the business of horse manure business. And I was so like, he learned that. So Sharif was amazed. I was like, this is how it works, my brother. I'm here, but only the kids can take it boom, boom, boom, boom, bam. And that's what I'm, you know, trying to, you know, show my kids.

A lot of people in your position with the amount of wealth that you accumulated, they did, most people do one of two things. They pass their money on to their heirs. And some people do what called ruling it from the grave where if you die, they got parameters that they can't get out of to protect people. Others give it away. Like you got these different giving pledges and different things nowadays and they give it all to charity. What is your mindset around your children and how you either give them money as they become adults or 'When you die,' or like, 'No, I worked for this and you need to learn to go work on your own and I'm giving it all away.' What's your approach to those?

I told my kids all the time, we don't need another basketball player in the family. Give me a lawyer, give me a veterinarian, give me a hedge fund operator. So they get something, but the higher they go in education, the more they get. And you know, I tell 'em all the time, I said, 'School is important. Education is important to me.' You know, I wasn't the smartest guy in the book, but, you know, I took things that were very hard and broke it down to its simplest form. Like, you know, when I was learning business in school, I really didn't understand it until I got with a businessman and he showed me what a joint venture was. He showed me what a, you know, subchapter S corporation is. I was like, oh, this is what it means to get education. So I just tell them, hey, whatever it is you want to do, let me know. I'll hook you up and I'll start you off. And once you master that, we'll be on our way. And again, I hate using that P word, but I got, I don't have no problems with none of my babies. None at all.

Man, that's incredible. Getting into the basketball, you had the opportunity to play with, and in a major way, D-Wade, Kobe, and Penny. You played with Bron, To me, that was kind of the tail end of your career. Like, it wasn't as Shaq dominant as you were with those guys. When you look at those three guys though, rate 'em.

It's tough to rate 'em because we speak a language, right? And if I say in our language, but it gets out, not saying that your show would do that, but even if you put out a clip, The ones that don't comprehend our language will try to make it look like I'm rating them. But I'm gonna rate them because you're a good friend of mine and you asked me to do it. Kobe, number 1. He had the master killer mentality. And I like to say I helped him get that. 'Cause when he first came in, I put the Donovan test on him. "My fuck, you ain't shit. No, don't shoot. Fuck that." And it would drive him crazy. You know, you talk about the 5, 6 hours a day in the gym. Yeah, he did that just so he could shut me the fuck up. And I loved it because I already knew what I was going to do. I already knew I was going to give you 28, 10 in the playoffs, 35, whatever. But I needed another guy. And I always used to piss him off. All right, all right, all right. You know, you know this very well. I don't know how your team was, but you know for a fact you don't have to be like this to win the championship. You do not. On the court you have to be like this, but attitudes and you don't have to be like that. So, you know, we used to always go at it and it was, I don't wanna say my fault, but I knew what the fuck I was doing. 'Cause when he came in, he showed me that he wanted to be a dog. He was that puppy that was nibbling on a chair. And I was like, okay, watch this, motherfucker. You ain't, nah, fuck, don't shoot. Shoot it again, motherfucker. So like it just used to piss him off. And then by the time he got into himself, And I kind of had to make a decision. Like, you know, Phil was like, listen, let him do what he do in the fourth quarter. And once I made that decision, I was like, you know, and then we was, it was like first three quarters, give me the fucking ball. Let me do what I'm gonna do. Let me get us in the penalty. And then because I'm not a great free throw shooter, fourth quarter, I'll step back and you do what you do. And we did that. And you know, he sacrificed. He did. 'Cause he, all those finals where he helped me win a championship, he damn sure could have Easily got Finals MVP, but that was our plan. Big dog, you eat for the first 3 and the 4th I take over. And my favorite game in Indiana was on our first championship where I fouled out and I looked at him, was like, 'Cause if we lose, it's all my fucking fault. Shaq, you motherfucker, you wanna be a rapper, you doing movies and you ain't concentrating on your free throws. I don't know what my percentage was, but it wasn't Black Steph Curry-like. So I already know if we fucking lose this series, it's gonna be my fault. I'm looking at Kobe, motherfucker do me like this. I'm like, and that motherfucker, he had an incredible 4 or 5, like, and then I knew then we was gonna win our first championship. So him for that, Penny, ultimate team player, that motherfucker. And I don't know if you know the story, but my second, my first movie, no, second movie, Blue Chips, So, you know, it was already a problem for me to go fucking shoot movies. You're not gonna be able to work out. So it was in my contract, I gotta work out from 8 to 12. So they build a little fucking gym and I got all the NBA players to run down. And this motherfucker is diming me up like crazy. 6'7", motherfucker smooth. And I'm running in and as soon as I go like that, the fucking ball's there. I'm spinning, he throwing the lobs. I was like, yo man, who the fuck is this actor? Draymond Green. 'Cause you know, we on the movie set. He said, "That's Penny Hardaway." And I don't know about you, but I don't be looking at college players seeing who the fuck coming. I got shit to do. So I'm like, "Who the fuck is this dude?" He's like, "Man, that's fucking Penny Hardaway." And I can remember before I left, you know, us losing and getting swept, D. Scott come to me and say, "Yo, man, you gotta fucking take over." 'Cause I'm the military kid. I'm the discipline kid. Yes, sir. No, sir. Whatever you say, sir. D. Scott was like, "Man, fuck that. You gotta take over." So I was like, "You know what? Now I'm gonna try it." Hey man, you know who Penny Hardaway is? Yeah, we might not get him. We want the first pick. We wanna go with C-Web. Nah, fuck that. You gonna have to get Penny. Yeah, I don't know if we can get Penny. Listen to what the fuck I'm telling you right now. My deal is up in 2 years. If you don't give me what I want to help me win this championship, I'm gonna have to look elsewhere. So me, Kenny, and Uncle Draymond, we at the house, we watching the draft. They draft Chris Webber. I'm fucking picking up lamps. I'm just tearing the motherfucking house apart. 'Cause I'm like, these motherfuckers didn't listen to me. They tested me, you know? 'Cause now that I put myself in charge, motherfucker, I'm in charge. You gonna have to do what the fuck I say or else I'm gonna have to go somewhere where they gonna let me be in charge. So I'm tearing the fucking house up. I'm going crazy. Kenny and them trying to wrestle me to the floor. And then they say, wait, wait, the Orlando Magic make a trade with the Golden State Warriors for Penny for Chris. And I was like, oh shit, they did it. They listened to me. So now D. Scott and them don't know what I got. 'Cause I don't know if they know Penny, but I know this motherfucker's nice. So him and D. Wade, our first argument was in the finals. We go down 0-2. I'm declining the Shaq. I'm going through a divorce. I'm not Shaq. I have a— my first 2 games is fucking terrible, awful. So I pulled D. Wade in the room. The fuck you gonna do, man? [MASKED] You want to be the man? What the [MASKED] you gonna do? And he's, he's, he had a look of it. It wasn't, I wasn't trying to fight, I was just asking a question. He had a look of relief, like, oh, I can? So yeah, [MASKED], I got 4 people on me. I just took, well, in the future I'm gonna talk to my good friend Draymond. He, he gonna tell me they're gonna put a [MASKED] in front of me, behind me. That's the [MASKED] they're doing to me right now. What the [MASKED] you gonna do though? And he, he said, okay, Shaq. And he went off. So it's not that I'm rating them, even though I answer your question. I, I was fortunate enough to play with 3 of the greatest guards. And Bron, Bron has so much power. Like when I got there, I've never seen a young kid with that much power and deservedly so. Like he had everything in order and it was just so, and I think we could have, we could have possibly went further. I don't know if you remember, we were in first the whole year. Big Baby broke my thumb and I was out. I came back, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, at that time I was already declining the check anyway. You break my thumb and then I gotta sit out 5 weeks and then try to come back and beat a Boston team. It wasn't gonna happen. Because, you know, at that point I was like, I gotta get fucking 5 before he do.

Yeah.

I already got 4 and this motherfucker, I guess. So I was, I was ring chasing, but I was just, you know, like you said, I want to just try to step in and, you know, help people. And then when I went to Boston, same thing, I thought we could have made it pretty far, but I tore my Achilles. But, you know, I, I hate rating those guys because I don't want ignorant people don't understand our language to try to twist it up and, oh, he said Kobe was better. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying all those guys had different attributes and they were great players.

Do you regret, and so you went so hard for Penny, for Orlando to get Penny. Do you regret leaving Orlando as soon as you did and not seeing it through with Penny the whole way?

No. And the reason is I am programmed to, once you make a decision, you live with that decision, right or wrong. And, you know, one thing about my agent at the time, who Len Armada was, he informed me about business. I knew where the money was going, you know, when I came in, you know, because I think what even got me interested in playing basketball, John Koncak was making 15 for 3. I was at home one day, my father smacked me in the back of the head with a paper because I was a medium-level juvenile delinquent. I was like you, I was a fucking football guy. I used to like to bring that pain. So I was like, you know, and then my high school coach said, you ain't gonna make it. I ain't had no scholarships. I already had a plan to join the fucking Army. I already knew the Army life was a good life. I'm gonna join the Army. My father smacked the shit out of me one day with a paper. Look at this. And it was John Koncak. No disrespect to John, 'cause you know, I end up playing with John. He's a great fella. And he said, hey, look at this dude. So we got the 15 for 3. I ain't the smartest guy in the world. I know that's 5 million a year. So I'm watching John Koncak play in San Antonio, him and his family. Fair Arena. And I'm like, damn, I'm like this now. So now I really start taking basketball serious. And I had a guy that I met in Germany, and now the name of Dale Brown, he already offered me a scholarship. So I already know I'm, I'm going to LSU. So, you know, my agent kept telling me, yo, the money's gonna be a lot. So when he said— when I first got drafted, how much you want? I was like, I don't know, $6 million a year. He's like, nah, man, we're gonna ask for $50. And I was like What? He said, we're gonna ask for $50 million. I end up getting $40 million for 7. I think I was the first to do this. He's like, but I'm gonna put a clause in there. You can do something after 3, after 4. And I was like, okay, sounds good. So when it came back around to Orlando, everybody was talking about $100 million. I want to be the first $100 million guy. It was mine. So we, I started high. I said $150 million. And they said no. And then here during the Olympics, '96, me and Uncle Draymond Green, we had Magic City. Doing what we do at Magic City, and my agent calls like 2:30 AM. He said, man, I got a call, I need you to come to this hotel. I said, for what? He said, come. So I get there and it's the great Jerry West. And I used to always see him when we play Lakers, never really met him, but of course I know who he is. I shake his hand. He said, you want the good news or the bad news? I said, I want the bad news. He said, I couldn't get you to $150,000. I said, what's the good news? We can get you $120,000. But he's like, you gotta sign right now. So I was like— and then I told Leonard, I said, call Orlando. He said they weren't even close. So, hey, my mom, my mom need a new house. Even though she didn't, that's how I'm thinking, man. So I went that. So even though I always think about what me and Penny could have done, it's not a decision I regret because when it comes to family and it comes to making decisions, I make the decision. As a leader, as a general. And if it happens to be the wrong decision, that's something that I can live with.

You said something when you were just discussing Kobe, when you were discussing Kobe, you and what y'all did in the fourth quarter. You said quarters 1 through 3, I dominate. And then we let Kobe take over in the fourth. And I recently was just on Instagram maybe a week ago, and not even a week ago, and Gilbert Arenas, On his podcast was talking about Joker and saying, you know, when it's time to get a bucket, the ball always go to Jamal Murray towards the end of the game. So how can you say he's the best player? Talking about Joker, because Jamal Murray get those last shots. And you pretty much just said, that's what me and Kobe did. Like I did this and then we let him go then. So what do you make of Gilbert Arenas' statement about Joker saying he's not as good because Jamal Murray gets the ball down the stretch?

He has—

He takes all the big shots.

Being that he was a part of us, he has that G14 classification. But Joker is really good. And Jamal is really good. That's just the way their team is set up. When it comes to most valuable player, I always thought it meant the baddest motherfucker in the league. Like, you're a guy who made history, which should have been my history, the most dominant, I mean, the unanimous MVP. He's the baddest motherfucker in the league. I don't give a fuck what y'all record is, where y'all at, 1 through 8. He's the baddest motherfucking league. That's the most valuable player to me. I don't understand what the classifications are. Best player on the best team. We as players, we know who the baddest motherfucker is. We know who the strongest is. We know who the best, like we know. You know, all these voters sometimes they just get with their favorites and they stick with their favorites.

Yeah.

I don't know what the fucking criteria is. So, you know, I think the point that, you know, Gilbert was trying to make is, Okay, if he's the baddest guy, why is he getting the ball? Sometimes you got to do that. Like, you know, Shannon Sharp said something the other day, oh, Shaq wasn't the best player on the team. That's true. I'm not better than fucking Penny Hardaway. I'm not better than Kobe Bryant. I'm not better than D-Wade, but I'm the baddest motherfucker on the team. That's what I always try to be. I always try to be the biggest, baddest motherfucker. All that, bro. I wasn't better than Alonzo Mourning, Christian Laettner coming out of college, but I was the baddest motherfucker. That's why I got picked number one. So, you know, a lot of times, like, if you got G14 classification, I'll let you say what you want. If you don't, I ain't gonna let you. Like, I'm, you know, sometimes people take our niceness for granted. And I'm big on G14 classification. So I don't have a problem with what Gilbert said. He's been there, he's done that. He was with us. I understand that. But, you know, all opinions are subjective. You either agree or you disagree.

Right.

The problem we have now in this world is somebody say something, you don't like it, you wanna take it and put it in your thing. Just, that's cool too, but just make sure you have that G14 classification. And G14 classification gets you in the building. We have ranks. Me and you have the highest fucking ranks. Me, you, Steph, Cole, Magic, we on the top motherfucking floor. A lot of guys are in the building, but they don't have the same, you know, right to say certain things as we do. But again, I don't have a problem with, I do have a problem what he said where I hate all sinners. I hate all centers. I never said anything bad about Joker. I just think they thought I was trying to be funny when I told 'em, I said, no, I want you to hear from me first, Joker. And I'm telling you like a man, you my guy, love you. But SGA should've got an MVP. That ain't no diss. But again, I did it and I slowed it down so people can understand that. And I even added, hey, this is no disrespect to you. And they still take it and twist it. Oh, Shaq hates all big men. I don't hate all big men. I hate all big men that don't play like fucking big men. That's what I hate.

Couple more questions before we get outta here. The modern day big joker, you know, those guys, Joel, Wimby.

I'm jealous of them. Why? I wish I could step out and shoot the 3, brother. You know why I call myself Black Steph Curry? 'Cause if I go to the gym and miss 190 fucking 3s and make one, I'm the Black Steph Curry. That shit fucking feel good to step out and shoot that 3, bro. But again, you gotta understand about me, when I'm jealous, I'm not envious. I'm jealous to fucking motivate me. So every now and then I go out there and try to Klay Thompson my shit and just, you know, I built the court, but I just go out there and try to shoot. I'm jealous of them 'cause I wish I was allowed to do that. You know, back then I would every now and then take and go coast to coast. The coach would look at me crazy. So they're allowed to do it. Embiid is a mixture of me in the post and Hakeem Olajuwon outside the post. And Joker, he's, Man, I was trying to figure who he reminded me of. I was thinking a little Brad Daughtry, a little Sabonis in the '84 land. Like, his game is just nice. And I like people that play at their pace. I asked you about Luka one time. I was like, he really that nice? And you was like, yeah, the motherfucker strong and he play at his pace. So I really like those guys. Any other big— Wembenyama is different. He's thin, but like, he does some stuff. He's really different. As the president of the big man alliance, I really like those 3 guys. Any other big guys, I'm not really feeling it. So when he say I hate all big men, I don't hate all big men. Just don't like the big men that don't play like big men.

Do you think there would be any benefit to Joel at times saying, you know what, I'm channeling my inner Shaq right now?

Fuck Shaq. Just play. Play the odds. If I got a guy 6'7" on me, I'm not shooting no jumper, even if I know how to shoot the jumper. One, I'm gonna try to get him in foul trouble, get my team in a penalty, and the percentages go up when you move closer to the basket. It's just so, you know, why you want to dribble between your legs and shoot jumpers? Like, when— listen, when it goes in, looks pretty, but when it doesn't go off in playoff situations, you're gonna have to live with that. Oh, you're the only MVP who never made out the first round. And I know guys don't want to live with that. So I just want him to just, you know, play, play, play to his ability. Like if you got another agile big guy, you take him out and you go around them. But anybody that's smaller than you, you got to go on the post and then go to work. And then once they double you, you make it easier for Maxie. Yeah. Maxie's a good player, but if he don't have to work as hard, I think he can, I think he can be a lot better. Like Maxie was doing all that and he's young and all that, but I wanted to make the game easy for Penny, Kobe, and D-Wade. Let me go down here and jump hook these motherfuckers to death. And then when they start fouling and doing all that stuff, then I'm gonna kick it to you. Then y'all go to work. So that's what I think about Joe.

Last couple questions. You, shit, it's been what, 13 years now?

Yeah, 13.

You took on another role in what you've been doing at TNT. With the Inside the NBA crew. What did you first think you was getting yourself into as opposed to what it's turned into?

I wanted to be the Black Brian Gumbel and use big words and do all that. And TNT said, "Motherfucker, we'll fire your ass tomorrow. Be you." And I think that's what makes our show the best show out there. G-14 classification. Barkley Hall of Famer, Shaq Hall of Famer, Kenny, 2-time champion, Ernie, best analysts in the world.

Yes.

But you guys can be yourself. And we make fun of people, we crack jokes, we do a lot of stuff. Because you also have to realize after watching 2 games, good games or bad games, the fans that are real people don't have to work in the morning. If we're going to keep you up past your bedtime, the least we want to do is entertain you. And I think the reason why they hired you, you're very intelligent.

Thank you.

And you're definitely one of us. You know how to crack jokes. You and Charles at the All-Star Game, y'all had me rolling. So welcome to the team, and I'm glad you're here. But I didn't really know what I was getting myself into, but I— TK, he was a producer there. He was like, we don't want you for all that shit. Just talk about your experiences, talk about what you know. And he's like, he said, people know you know what you're talking about because you did it. Because you did it. And, uh, so they, they just, you know, told me to just, you know, be myself. I wish I could talk more. Charles is good at fucking talking, and then when you pose the fucking rotate, he'll say something again. That's why I snapped on his ass. I said, yo, motherfucker, 1, 2, 3, not 1, 2, and back to motherfucking 1. He like cutting motherfuckers off, repeating himself. Like, like, bro, you said that shit. I've been here 12 years, you say the same shit every year. Chris Paul, the greatest league motherfucker. We heard that. Say something different.

That's funny. We had Chuck on the show a couple years ago and I asked him, y'all get into these heated arguments, do you ever really get pissed off?

No, because it's the perfect story. I'm like you, I will fight you and do whatever. So one time this motherfucker, and like I never had no problem with Charles. It's the same way you looked up to me, I looked up to Charles. Charles let me know it was okay to elbow a motherfucker in the mouth. My father used to tell me, you need to be like Barkley and knock him off. So in college and even in the league, so we playing in Houston one day, Charles is older, the motherfucker hit me in the head with the ball. I can't let that shit slide. I can't go back to any barbershop, any motherfucking crib, nothing. Now I gotta knock this motherfucker out. But the mistake it was I made was I leaned too far to the left and he went that way. I wanted to throw the left because I wanted him to come inside. I was going to try to knock that motherfucker's head off to let him know like, hey, I ain't one of these motherfuckers you can throw the ball at. So bro, by the time I got to the motherfucking tunnel, Uncle Jerome handed me the phone and I'm like, hello? And it was my mom and Charles' mom on the phone. It's like, y'all shouldn't be doing— I was like, who's this? She's like, my mom. Shaq, this is Charles' mom. So you know when it's moms, even though I'm mad at him, I ain't gonna be like, fuck this, yes ma'am. Y'all stop that shit. I done already talked to Charles. Y'all hug that shit out. And you know, she was— not ghetto, but she was hard. She was like, "Y'all cut that shit out. Y'all don't need to be fighting." So mama dropped that final order. I'm not gonna go against my mama ever. So I'm walking down the hall, he walking down the hall. I'm looking at him like, "Motherfucker, even though my mama said that, you make a move, I'm gonna knock you out." So he started laughing and I started laughing. And then I finally see my mom. I said, "What was that about?" She said, "Me and Charles' mom been best friends for 30 years." Crazy. Yeah, so one time I seen them playing cards, it's the same shit me and Charles do. You don't know I'm playing no motherfucking spades like they, but it's respectful. So even though we argue, I know as a man you can't disrespect another man. I think like men that have the same principles, you can talk to each other same way. Like my little guy over there, that's my cousin. We grew up together. We fight every fucking day, but we don't disrespect each other. And the fact that we don't disrespect each other, you can say what you gotta say. I say what I gotta say. So, you know, I'm never mad at him to the point where I wanna beat him up. 'Cause one, my mom would be upset. His mom passed away. She was so nice. My mom, she would be upset. So even if he says something crazy, I know he not disrespecting me. I know that's just Charles. I'll just let it go.

Before we get outta here, obviously, as you know, I think, you know, being one of the most successful businessmen to come through the NBA, you know, we see Junior Bridgeman, Magic, You know, and you have put yourself in that category, you guys. So you understand business. You guys have had, and I'm honored to grace the stage with you all whenever I get the opportunity. But what you guys have built at Inside the NBA has been special. Business is business. And there's a TV deal coming up with the possibility of Turner not, you know, having broadcasting rights. That is a possibility. If that's to happen, everybody wants to know what happens with this crew. You know, you guys, you four guys, like it's the premier show when it comes to NBA basketball. What happens with this group from your perspective? How do you see that?

I don't like to think left, which is negative. I don't like to think right. I like to think what it is. So until we hear what it is, I don't know. I'm glad I have different options to fall back on, but, you know, when I go left, it just, it starts to get sad. Like, damn, no Ernie, no Chuck, no Kenny. Then when I think right, there's a lot of other possibilities. So great possibilities, but right now I'm gonna just stay in the middle. And you brought up a name, Junior Bridgeman, another guy who I'm jealous of. Uh, I remember one time I'm walking through the airport and I saw the 10 richest athletes. It was a Time article. I was like, "Motherfucker, I'm number 2." I ain't fucking with Mike, but shit, I'm number motherfucker 2. Magic may be number 2, so fuck it, I'm number 3. So I look at the list, I'm like, "Mike, fuck. Magic, fuck." And then Junior Bridgeman, $600 million. I'm like, "Who the fuck is Junior Bridgeman?" So I'm like, "$800 million." So now Instead of being envious, it was like, it's just like jealousy motivates me, brother. Been like that since I'm a kid. Like, you, you see a kid— like, I always tell my son, when you go to these AAU tournaments, find out who's who, make sure you go at them. So like, for me, I was always behind Kenny Anderson. So when I went to the fucking McDonald's All-American Game, I met Dick Vitale. I said, hello, Mr. Dick Vitale. He's like, and you are? So this motherfucker don't know who I am. Oh shit. And everybody see sucking off Kenny and Jimmy Jackson, all these motherfuckers. I said, okay, motherfucker. So I told Miss Vontel, I said, you don't know me yet, but tomorrow at 12:30, the whole world gonna know my game. So that shit motivated me. So I'm looking at Junior Beard, I'm like, fuck, this motherfucker on all this shit. And I just, it just makes me work harder because we like stories. I like to open that Time magazine and see Shaq, 2, 3 billion. Like, so I'm not there yet, but I think I'm working, you know, to a way to get there. I just wanna tell athletes, it's okay to be jealous at times, but just make sure you use it as motivation and not hate.

Big fella, I appreciate you, man.

I'll see you in about 30 minutes.

Yes, sir. Draymond Green Show.

And y'all wouldn't have beat us in the finals.

Easy, easy money.