Steph Curry's record-breaking night + Stephen Jackson interview | The Draymond Green Show

Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. This is episode 5. We are starting to run these things off and we are getting on the road. We're also on a roll of incredible defensive wing guests. Had Andre Iguodala, who's a teammate of mine, who I think is an incredible defender. I've seen him give some of the better players that's been in the league over the course of my 10 years havoc, wreak havoc on guys. Super smart, super strong, great lateral speed, great hands, good defender. Metta World Peace, who I think is probably one of the top two along with the guy that I'm going to mention next, that I've really played against as far as a wing goes. I mean, Metta World Peace was just rooted into the ground. Like you could not move him. Like he's just rooted into the ground.

Mm-hmm.

And then our guest this week on this week's show, who was also a guy, when I came into the league, I was playing a 3 and guarded me on the wing. And I'm like, oh my God. I tried to drive around. He like hit me with a forearm. I couldn't move. Steven Jackson. You know, we had all these guys in a row. I think it's great. Super excited about talking with Stack Jack, host of All the Smoke. Yeah. Along with Matt Barnes. Great podcast they got, they have going on by the way. I was a guest on the show, had a ton of fun. They got a good thing going. So I'm extremely excited to have StackJack on as this week's guest, just to really pick his brain on being a second round pick, which he was like myself, on his journey through the league, his time with the Warriors like I've had myself. His time in the podcast space like I'm now in myself. A lot of similarities there. So looking forward to having StackJack on the show as we move forward in this episode. But first we have a few things that we need to discuss that's going on around the association. Number one, I think we all gotta talk about Steph Curry breaking the record. The GOAT, such a beautiful thing. It was so incredible. Incredible. Being in Madison Square Garden. I think when you look at the record being broken, you always wanna do stuff like that at home. You get the support of your home crowd and you know, you're just in your space. It's incredible. If you're not gonna do it at home, I don't think there's any better place to do it than Madison Square Garden. And you know, sometimes stuff just work out. Most of the times when things just work out is because it works out for people that deserves incredible things because they are great people. And Steph Curry being one of the best people I've ever met, I've ever been around, it's very fitting that he have a moment like that. Like, yep, the shot doesn't go in in Indiana. No disrespect to Indiana,— But you don't wanna break the record there. Like you just don't, like there's nothing special about Steph Curry breaking the record in Indiana other than he broke the record in Indiana. He breaks the record in Madison Square Garden. And my, was it special. I mean, for starters, for the NBA to allow, and Madison Square Garden and the Knicks organization to agree to allow, I think it was 5 or 6 minutes on the clock, maybe even a little more, once we took the foul for him to have that moment. And my goodness, was that moment special. I mean, from number one, for me to share that moment with him, to be on the court with him when he broke the record was incredible. We've been through a lot together. My entire career, he's been my teammate. Very special bond we share. So to share that moment with him was special, extremely special. That's just my point of view. But you talk at the Garden, Ray Allen there, Reggie Miller there, Dell Curry there, all the stars that were out, Alicia Keys, Chris Rock, Tracy Morgan, Michael Strahan, I mean, you go down the list, like Pete Davidson, everybody was in there to see that record go down. Such a special moment. And for him to have as much time as they gave him to take that moment in, to where it wasn't just like, "Oh man, hey, Steph Curry just broke the record. Clap it up, everybody." No, let's take a moment and embrace this and appreciate greatness and what we just witnessed. Because it's a very special feat by a very special talent and person and someone who's been a great steward of this game. And the way he carries himself, the way he represents himself, his family, the entire Warriors organization, the NBA as a whole. Kudos to the NBA. Kudos to TNT. Kudos to the New York Knicks organization. Thank you. Kudos to Madison Square Garden for allowing that moment to happen. I thought that was extremely special, obviously well-deserved. But let's talk about this record a little bit, 'cause I actually saw, although we were playing, I saw the clips of it, Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith discussing whether they think the record will be broken or not. And Charles Barkley obviously thinks this record will get so far outta reach as, A lot of people think this record will get so far outta reach that no one will be able to touch it ever. I do agree that it will. I think Steph Curry will end up making well over 4,000 3-pointers depending on how long he plays, possibly 5,000. But I know he'll make, I think he'll make over 4,000 3-pointers.

Yeah.

So now in saying that, that's a very hard record for anyone to beat. But you also have guys like Draymond Green, like Donovan Mitchell, you know, guys that are good shooters and they're coming into the league averaging 7 3-pointers a game as rookies. Steph Curry today averages 8.7 threes per game on his career attempts. The last 3 years or so, I'm almost positive that he's over 10. I know for certain the last 2 years, and if I'm not mistaken, the last 3 or 4 years, he's over 10 attempts a game. And yet his average is at 8.7 a game, which means—

Draymond Green.

Before he started attempting 10 a game, because he changed the NBA to where the 3-point shot is so dynamic and everybody's doing it, before he started attempting 10 a game, his average was probably at about 6 per game. Which you had Ray Allen who averaged a little over 5 per game. These younger guys are attempting 3s at such a high clip, at a high rate. That the law of averages just alone says that the record will be broken. I don't think the argument though is whether the record will be broken or not, 'cause records are made to be broken. Like that's just the nature of the beast. I think the thing that's significant here is a couple things. One is whoever does break the record, we won't care like we cared when Steph Curry broke the record.

Mm-hmm.

And the reason you won't care like you did when Steph Curry broke the record is because the next person to break that record, unless we— it's Canon Curry coming along shooting like Steph Curry, I'm not sure we'll ever see another someone else that can shoot the ball like Steph Curry. And so because of that, we won't care because when someone break that record, we will all know like, yeah, he broke it because of the law of averages, but we don't agree that you're a greater shooter than Steph Curry. And so I think the argument here is, it's not whether someone is gonna break the record or not. It's two things. Number one, we won't care as much. And number two, that whoever that guy is, you aren't better than Steph Curry. You're not a better shooter than Steph Curry. And I think that is the argument, is it probably will because the three is just, Everybody, I mean everyone in the NBA can hit a 3-point shot now. Like whether you hit it at 30% or 40%, everyone in the NBA can hit a 3-point shot. And that is all because of Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. But Steph Curry and the way he changed the game of basketball. So will the record be broken? He's of course gonna put it outta reach. But with the way these young guys are coming in, just launching threes? Maybe, I don't know, we'll see. But one thing I know for certain, Steph Curry's the greatest shooter we've ever seen and probably the greatest shooter we ever will see. Speaking of last night's game, I know there was a lot of attention around my tweets on the night before and the day of. And I saw a few people, which I responded to a few because I had nothing but time sitting, sitting, waiting on the plane, let us board the plane and then actually taking off and flying here and schedule being all jacked up. So do you nap? Do you not nap? Like the whole thing. And so of course I was bored. So I looked at a few responses and people are like, Try, uh, one, I think one guy said, try, try, try going to work every day of the week and still not have enough money to, to buy Christmas presents or something like that. So you're complaining, you make this amount of money. And like I told him, hey my man, no disrespect, but your problems are your problems and my problems are my problems. To be quite frank with you, you may not give a damn about my problem. And that's okay, that's totally fine. The reality is, is those are still my problems. I may not care at all about your problems, but the reality is they are still your problem. So the one thing that you and I both have in common is we both have issues. Yeah. That we're dealing with. In your mind, your issue is way bigger than my issue, but that's your issue. That is your reality. Your reality isn't my reality. So just because my reality isn't your reality, that doesn't lessen my issue because it's not your reality. Or in your mind, what I'm dealing with doesn't come close to what you're dealing with in your world. And I told a few people that yesterday. It's like, hey, my issues are still my issues and your issues are your issues. It's totally fine. But the issue was we finished playing in Indiana and we're supposed to fly to New York. Plane is broke down. We can't leave the night of. We go back to the hotel in Indiana. We have a 10 o'clock flight yesterday morning, which doesn't end up leaving till 10:40 something. By the time we landed in New York, I think it's 12:40-ish, 12:30-ish. By the time we actually make it to the hotel, it's right, like 1:50, 1:55 by the time we make it to the hotel. Well, the significance of that is we play at 7:30. And so now you're talking 5 and a half hours before game time of actually making it to a hotel in the city. And with those 5.5 hours, you know, again, we're arriving at 2:00, the first bus was at 3:30. And you know, you're headed to the game. And so just the, I was extremely proud of our team and fighting through the adversity and beating a tough-nosed Knicks team, hard-nosed Knicks team.

Yeah.

Because it's already not ideal. Playing a game a night before, playing back-to-backs. It's just never ideal. That second game of the back-to-back is always tough. You couple that with traveling the day of and getting to the hotel 5 hours before the game, and it's nearly impossible to win a game. You then add on the emotional moment of Steph Curry, Steph Curry breaking the record. And when you add on that moment, See, I've been in games, high emotion games, whether it's Steph Curry, you know, when you have these things like Steph Curry gets the day before a playoff game, he's given his MVP trophy. And then before the game, right before the game, you know, he show it to the crowd. And that game is always very emotional, very hard to win. If you, I'd be interested in what the stats are, but I guarantee you the team with the guy accepting the award, they don't win often. It's just a weird game. Game to play in. And so I said all of that to say, with Steph Curry breaking the record last night, the whole stoppage happening, all of the things that went on with that, for our team to stay the course, win the game, be able to focus and lock back in, I thought that was a really huge step for our team and just our focus and our toughness and our mental toughness. I thought that was huge for us to go out there and win that game the way we did. Uh, that, That taught me, you're always learning about the guys you have with you. And that taught me even more about the guys that I go to war with daily. So I thought that was very special because it was a lot going into everything. I mean, like I said, with the travel, with the record, you have to guard and all of these things you got, you kind of had everything working against us and we somehow found a way. I thought that was special. And I thought that was a big win for us. And also in other news around the association, we have the talks of the NBA and the NBPA discussing increasing player testing. Obviously we know there's been a crazy uptick in the positive cases. I mean, you got Giannis out now, you have DeMar DeRozan out, you have Zach Lavine out, you have James Harden out. All of these guys that are missing time because of COVID the league is talking about ramping up the testing for vaccinated and unvaccinated players for game and practice days. Pretty similar to what we went through last year, which was brutal. I'm not sure where it goes. I understand the league ramping up testing. If so, I must say it pisses me off a little bit. And the reason it does is because we were told you get vaccinated, the testing stops. And a lot of guys got vaccinated for that reason, you know? And I think people just need to be careful what you say and how you go about getting people to do said things because you tell me you get vaccinated, there's no more testing, and now you're gonna bring the testing back as if I didn't get vaccinated and part of my reason for getting vaccinated was to not have all the strenuous testing that we went through last year. It's tough to draw that one back, you know? And so you just have to be very careful in how you go about things. And so if there's any part of it that pisses me off, I understand why, totally get it. But that then becomes misleading information that was given to me prior to me ever getting vaccinated. And it really makes you look back at the Kyrie situation. And, you know, I know a lot of people have spoke about, spoke out on Kyrie, most of it being negative. And now you look back at the Kyrie situation, I know he's sitting back like, all these guys are still getting COVID. And— Y'all say everyone's vaccinated. What's like, what's the issue? Why can't I play? And especially if we're going back to testing every day before practices, before games, that puts you right back in the same situation as everyone else, regardless of if vaccinated or unvaccinated. And so I think that'll be interesting. I know there's been rumors about KD and Kyrie talking more. Like KD and Kyrie are best friends. Yeah. This whole rumor of like, oh, they're apparently back talking is utterly ridiculous. It is disgusting. Because do you think KD and Kyrie were gonna stop talking because Kyrie isn't playing? Like, they're friends. Their relationship goes beyond the basketball court. So I thought that was disgusting. But, you know, and just speaking on that, you have to revisit Kyrie and what he's thinking and how he feels and all the things that's going on with it because— Yeah. Of the situations that are going on in the NBA with the COVID with the positive tests, the positive cases, the testing now possibly about to come back and all of those things. So you definitely have to take a peek back at the Kyrie situation. And if you were someone who absolutely destroyed him, you may have to rethink or recant. I know people in the media today don't really go back and say, "Oh, I was wrong." They just kind of move on to the next thing. But you may need to go back because this is a human being that we're talking about that's been drug through the mud because of a decision that he made on his body and what he wanted to do with his body. You may need to look back at that, uh, as this news starts to unfold, because I think it— I think it's going to get very, very interesting if this plays out the way I think it's going to play out. So we'll keep an eye out on that.— but I'm really interested in seeing how this plays out because the positive test has been ramping up. You had Toronto go back to 50% capacity in the arenas. Hopefully other teams don't follow that, but that's a big deal going back to 50% capacity. So a lot of things going on right now on the COVID front. You know, we've been lucky, knock on wood, to not have any positive cases on our team. And hopefully, fingers crossed, we can keep it that way. But it's getting really interesting right now in the league on the COVID front. So stay tuned. We'll see how this plays out. But I think I know how it's gonna play out. We'll see where it goes. I wanna welcome y'all back to the Draymond Green Show. Our next guest is a very special guest. We have a lot of connected tissue, and me following in his footsteps, a guy who came to this organization, the Warriors, when it was down and had one of the most incredible years in this franchise history, especially up until that point. And did it all through just bringing that toughness and that fire and that grit. Obviously been that guy his entire career and entire life for that matter. But a guy who I have the utmost respect for, incredible, incredible basketball player, incredible defender, one of the toughest guys that's come through our league, Stack Jack, Stephen Jackson. What's up, my brother?

Man, glad to be here. Thanks for having me, man. That means a lot coming from you, Commander, 'cause what we were able to do We were able to start something, but what y'all did, take it to another level, bro. And I always tell people, I say, Draymond Green is a different version of us. He's more of a polished version and he does more things, bro. And like, I don't know why, but you know, we had you on our show and we talked a couple times, but the things you do at your size is like 10 times more I would say more rare than Charles Barkley. Yeah, Charles Barkley could score, but what you do at your size is, when I was in the league, it was being done by 7-footers.

Facts. Facts.

Tim Duncan, I played with Tim Duncan. You was relying on big guys to protect the paint. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

So I commend you on being a part of changing the game, my boy.

Thank you, I appreciate that, man. You know, when I came into the league as a second round pick, like yourself, you know, you come into the league and number one, you gotta get a contract. When you drafted the second round, there's no guarantees. So you gotta get a contract, number one. After summer league, these days guys don't even play summer league without a contract. But I went through all through summer league without a contract. And my whole goal was just to get on the team. And once I signed my contract, I'm like, what is my goal now in this league? And for me, my goal was to create a path for guys in this league. And it don't have to be scoring. It don't have to be you 6'9", 6'10", 6'11" to play the 4 position because that's always been my natural position. And you know, I wanted to build on that. And through the success of our team, you know, I'm not oblivious to know that the success of our team has also helped in my career and helped me change that narrative. But you know, it's a great feeling. But you know, I wanna talk about your career and the greatness that you put out on this court. It's funny 'cause I had, I was doing something with Metta. We had Metta on the show and I was telling him when the two guys that I came in, when I came into the league that I knew right away, ain't no messing around with them. You not getting around them. They way stronger than everybody was you and Metta. And y'all were two wing defenders. And I know I, I made a lot of news when I said I'm the best defender ever, you know? And I said that for two reasons. Number one, I feel like I am. I believe that because of all the things that I do on the defensive end that is not gonna show up in the stat sheet. You know, it's cutting that guy off, it's helping on that. But number two, just to start that conversation and drive that conversation to get Everybody talking about the guys like yourself, like Metta, like Ben Wallace, like Bill Russell. No one brings us up when you're talking basketball greats because it's not scoring. And so that was a goal of mine when I made that comment. And a lot of guys responded. What did you think of that when I said that?

Well, if you don't believe it, who will? And it starts with you. I mean, I know every time on— I've never made a first team all-defense or anything like that. You know, and I know it wasn't because of my play, it was because other things, but I went out there and felt like I was finna stop everybody in and everybody every night. That's just the attitude you gotta have as a defender. And that's why we rare, because very few people have the confidence to go out there and feel like they can stop anybody, right? I have you and Ron in my top 5 defenders of all time because of what y'all do, and y'all can guard all positions.

Thank you.

It's very few people at y'all's size that can guard 1 through 5. I was able to guard 1 through 4 at certain times and certain players, right? It wasn't all point guards. I can guard some point guards. The big ones, I had 'em locked. The smaller point guards, it was smaller for 'em 'cause they was a little quicker. But Ron, you can put Ron on anybody at any given time, at any given game, and he's taking 'em out the game. And that passion that we have, bro, I think that's instilled in us from where we come from.

Yeah. Fact.

You can't be taught that. And it might be, you know, feel like we was snubbed in the second round too. Feeling like we always have something to prove.

Hell yeah.

But I'm thankful that we have that attitude, right? Because that was our edge to go on the court. I got something to prove every night. They still sleeping on me. So every night I'm gonna come with that attitude that I'm the best. Even if y'all don't believe it, I'm coming out here that confident.

Nah, that's a fact, man. That's a fact. And obviously you coming from Port Arthur, Texas, which is, a smaller city. Yeah. And myself coming from Saginaw, Michigan, a smaller city. You just bred that way. Like you can't survive on the playground if you don't have that mentality, you can't survive at the rec center if you don't have that mentality. So, and I definitely haven't appreciated it. But speaking of Ron, you two guys together in Indiana, like I said, two of the better defenders, the best defenders that I played against in my career. And obviously, That was really early in my career, my first year or two that you guys were still playing. Y'all two on the same team in Indiana, locking guys up. Like, how did you feel? And obviously we'll get to what ended up happening, but how did you feel about that team? Y'all two, Jermaine O'Neal, Jamaal Tinsley. What was your feeling about that team? And where does it stack up against all the other teams that you did play for?

Well, A couple things happened. Mike Brown ended up going there. Mike Brown was my, the reason I went to San Antonio and won a championship. That's my guy, my favorite coach of all time. And I know you love Mike this way as well.

Mm-hmm.

And he ended up going to Indiana and I told you I had to go to Atlanta to kind of prove myself again after the championship. So Mike made sure that Indiana was one, giving me my contract and two, giving me a chance, you know, to be the player that they know I could be. Going to that team, Draymond, I knew we was gonna win a championship. 'Cause I looked at the roster.

Wow.

And for Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird, two of some of the best minds in basketball, to think that I'm the missing piece, and for Reggie Miller to say that I could be his successor, he's willing to bring him in, this is a guy that I would love to take my place when I retire. All those things had me feeling real confident about myself. So going there, looking at Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, Jamaal Tinsley, Jonathan Bender, Scott Pollard, Jeff Foster. I'm just looking at the roster like, there's no reason that we can't come out the East, first of all.

Right.

So I just went there confident, but me and Draymond Green playing together on defense, we butted heads every night because we both want to guard the best player. And when we guard the best player, if that person score one time, we arguing again, "Let me get him, let me get him." You know what I'm saying? And it kept us both, I think every night, you know, we came into the game thinking, okay, 'Even if I'm not guarding the best man, I'm gonna lock this man up.' So after the game, we can be like, 'Well, I locked mine up.' You know what I'm saying?

Facts, facts.

Most of the nights, that's what it was for that short stint of the season before the brawl happened. But those 15, 19 games, we showed everybody we was the best in the league.

That's beautiful. And I think y'all did as well. But you know, when you're playing against a team with a great wing defender, it completely mess, like destroys the other team offense because most guys, most teams, their offense is usually built around a powerful wing. And so you got two guys that's taking those guys outta the game. Then you funnel them to J-O, young J-O by the way, who's blocking everything, clogging the paint up. You got Jeff Foster clogging the paint up. Y'all had an incredible team. And then obviously, you know, "A Night in Detroit Goes Wrong." You know, y'all had a brawl. Walk me through the brawl. I know you started off kind of chill, then you see Metta going to the stands. What happens with you from there?

All right, bro, so—

Mentally.

So you know how Detroit is.

Absolutely.

And we wasn't in the hood. That was the first thing. I don't think a lot of people know. We wasn't where the arena is now. It would've been a totally situation if the arena where it is now, it had happened there. Somebody would've really got hurt. But for the most part, I walked into a rivalry. Like I said, this was my first year. They had just played in the Eastern Conference Finals. So it was already a rivalry that I had no, nothing about. I knew nothing about. I was cool with a lot of the Pistons players. But once I walked into that arena that year, I felt the tension. You can feel the tension, right?

Mm-hmm.

So, and I know it's a big game. They just, you know, they just won and everybody's saying we gonna dethrone them. So it's a big game. I feel it and we ready to bust their ass. It wasn't no question. We were super confident. We went in there and we was busting their ass. So it's like 45 seconds left, we up 15 points. I'm at the free throw line. I hear Jamal Tinsley tell Ron, "You can get your foul back." And it's playing in my mind, is he talking about something from last year? 'Cause nothing happened in this game. You know what I'm saying?

So I'm like, "Oh." Absolutely.

Bro, you know, and you, around this time, you don't have to put no battery in Ron back. He gonna do some crazy shit anyway.

Right?

Around this time, right? Absolutely. He says it and I hear him while I'm at the free throw line. So if you look at the footage, we start running back down court after I make the free throw. I push Ron to somebody else and I go guard Ben. We switch so I can guard Ben just so Ron wouldn't foul him so the clock can run out. We can get outta there. We the best team in the league right now.

Absolutely.

We like 15 and 5. I'm guarding Ben, Ben gets the ball. I basically just let him go, Draymond, you know the game over. Just let him score, get the ball, let the clock run out. Ron comes from outta nowhere, bro. I'm talking, bro, outta nowhere, bro. And just fouls Ben way too hard to be up 15 points with 45 seconds left, right?

Absolutely.

A lot of people didn't know, Ben just had a death in his family. He had just lost his brother the day before. So he wasn't even supposed to play, right? So just imagine that being on your mind, right? And you getting your ass whipped, right? For the world to see on national TV, a big game. So Ben reacted like anybody should, bro. I mean, I wasn't mad at him for that. Right? So we break it up. They don't get to fight or nothing like that. The referees did a horrible job. If me and you foul somebody like that and they throw us out, they expect us to get off the court immediately.

Immediately.

They looking for a reason to fine us for more. They gonna make sure that we get escorted off the court. Ben stayed on the court for about a good 5, 10 minutes after he was thrown out. And Ben had on like 6 wristbands. So he kept throwing stuff at Draymond, right? To the point where Ron was getting outta control, but Reggie had him calm. He kept laying down. So after we get into it with them a couple times, it's kind of calming down. A cup comes out the stands. Now Ron don't see the cup. I see it. And I see directly where it come from 'cause I'm standing at that angle, but Ron had his head up 'cause he was laying down.

Yeah.

So he just seen the direction it came from. So when he went, my intentions was not to go up there and punch nobody, bro. I mean, I've been in bar fights, club fights too many times. So if you look at my whole posture, I was in control. I ran by about 20 people. I didn't touch nobody, you know what I'm saying? So Ron ran up there and grabbed the wrong guy. So by the time I got up there, I was initially finna grab Ron. And see, this is what they don't talk about. This is why I felt like they need to give us our money back or kind of reverse this shit. Because another beer was thrown in Ron's face.

Yep.

And that's the guy I hit. So that's why I reacted, 'cause he threw another beer, you know what I'm saying? And he was right in front of me, so I had to lay him out, Draymond. I couldn't let him get away with that.

Nah, I respect that. I respect that.

Yeah, I had to.

And I feel that because I always say, you know, stuff happens to us as players and obviously it's all about, right, protecting the logo and all of that stuff. Like protecting the integrity of the game. Like I get that.

Yeah.

But I feel like a lot of times stuff happens, stuff, things happen to us as players and it gives fans almost like a right to continue to do things because they know at the end of the day—

They protected.

If you get suspended for 30 games, you get $5 million. That person go home and they go to work tomorrow, they collect their paycheck. You know what I'm saying? And you or J-O gets suspended for what, 20 games I think, or whatever his was. 15 games, Ron gets suspended the rest of the season. Guys, you taking money outta guys' family's mouth. And these fans know that.

And they know— They bought it.

Absolutely. And they know they can get away with the things they get away with. And what ends up happening if something, the worst thing that happens to them, you banned, you can't go back to an NBA game. That's not affecting my life one bit. That's some extracurricular thing that I'm doing. Because I enjoy doing it, whereas it affects our lives. So I've always been a little on edge about that. You know, guys can say whatever they want to say to us, they can do whatever they want to do, and ultimately you get thrown out the game or you can't come back. I don't think that's fair.

Yeah, yeah, and that's a tough situation because at the end of the day, you still a man. You know what I mean?

Right.

So I think today, especially with everything going on and how, people are starting to listen to our plight and don't think that everything we saying is a complaint. They're realizing that we have a lot of room to stand on for the things that we've been complaining about and saying all this time. I think if the brawl would've happened today, the suspensions wouldn't have been like that. You know what I'm saying? Because they would've looked at everything with a fine-tooth comb. Okay, they're at work. He got assaulted by a fan first. This how all this started. You see what I'm saying?

Exactly.

They would've looked at it different, and I guarantee the outcome would've been different.

No, I think it definitely would've been different. And obviously that changes the entire complexity of the NBA.

Yeah.

Because now y'all have a great team. Even if you don't win a championship that year, you're coming back next year. The following year, Ron doesn't end up leaving. It changes things for J-O. It changes things for yourself. Like, I don't think people really realize the effect that that brawl had on the NBA as a whole.

I make an All-Star game. I'm an All-Star, Draymond, if that don't happen.

100%.

I'm an All-Star for sure.

100%. It completely changed the complexion of the NBA. But then, so fast forward the following year, you're back, J-O's back. Ron gets suspended for the first 30 games by the team. He comes back off the suspension from the team, first 30 games, and he requests a trade. He didn't say anything to y'all about requesting Detroit?

No. And then, but we felt something. We felt something because, well, see me, I got a relationship with him. So during that time I felt something because he had shot, it was something called Smack DVD. And Smack DVD was putting all the local rappers on, I think at the time. If you was rapping, you had to be on the Smack DVD. So before the season, While we working out, he came to my house and shot and brought all his rappers and shot a Smack DVD at my house. He wanted to use my house, right? So I knew his mind wasn't where it was supposed to be. You know what I'm saying? We trained, we in 2-a-days, you know what I'm saying? We supposed to be getting ready for the season.

I knew it was—

I knew his mind wasn't where it was supposed to be, bro. So when he came and said that he wanted time off, I knew that was just the beginning, right?

Mm-hmm.

I knew he was finna hit us with something way harder than that. You know what I'm saying? And it started from that to he's saying his mother, somebody on his family died, to him being at the Source Awards, to him all of a sudden wanna be traded. You know what I'm saying? To me, that was a slap in the face. 'Cause I put my career on the line for you, bro. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

I just met you, but you were my teammate, so I'm riding with you like I've been knowing you my whole life. But for you to put me in jail, this position, and then turn your back on us, You know what I'm saying? That kind of like, goddamn, bro, what kind of nigga is you?

Absolutely. No, and I think, you know, and talking to him and him just saying like, yo, I regret that. Like that was one of, that's still to today, one of my biggest regrets in life. And I understand it because, you know, when I look back on that, obviously totally different situation. But for me, when I like, when I look back on game 5 and getting suspended, which ultimately cost us a championship, I don't regret reacting to LeBron stepping over me, you know, because at the end of the day, like you said, I'm a man first. You know, you're just not gonna step over my shoulder and I'm not gonna react. I'm a man first. But I do regret, I don't regret it, but I do wish I could have the moment back. Yeah, I know. And the reason I wish, absolutely, I wish I could have the moment back because not only how it affects me, because by the way, if that never happens, I win Finals MVP. And the whole narrative of everything is different at that point, right? Like totally different.

Right.

And so I wish I could have the moment back, not only for the Finals MVP, but for the other guys in the situation as well. You know, that's another championship for Steph Curry. That's another championship for Klay Thompson. And we worked for that, you know? So I wish I could have that moment back, but in the same token, like you said, as a man, I get it. But moving forward, you're now host of All the Smoke. You and my other big bro, Matt Barnes, who I've had the pleasure of coming onto the show, looking forward to coming back whenever you guys will have me. One of the best. If not the best podcast in the sports space and what you guys have done. What's been the key for y'all to have the success that y'all have had from the very beginning? And it's continued to get better though. Like the guests have continued to get better and it's just constant with y'all. It's a well-oiled machine.

I think one thing, bro, is we are who we are first, right? So the people we are, knowing that we wear our emotions on our sleeve, knowing What you see is what you get with me. I ain't trying to be nothing I'm not. Either take it or leave it. People respect that more than you know. So for me and Matt, we always treated the janitor like we treat the president. So we created relationships with people by just being genuine. You know what I mean? And we both were doing, I was doing Fox and ESPN. And very few people have done that. You know what I'm saying? I was doing both networks. Then Matt started doing both. To the point we were like, hey, bro, we making all these other shows hot. Why don't we do our own? Matt had connections with Ellen Recordings. Shout out to Ellen. She's one of the creators of Red Table Talk, and she also was one of the creators of Oprah, Oprah Winfrey Show. She had connections with Showtime. Matt's sister came up with the name All the Smoke, because that's all we do.

Very fitting.

It all worked out. She went to Showtime. Brian Daly and Steve Espinoza was already looking to expand Showtime basketball. And we were the perfect faces for it. And I just think our lives been great, bro, because I couldn't have said that it was gonna do this well. I wouldn't have said that we'll be award-winning show, award-winning podcast, and that we'll be on Showtime. But to be going to the I Heart Awards again for the second year and to be where we at in the podcast has been a blessing, bro.

What's your— Congratulations, by the way, number one. I think it's incredible for two Black men, former athletes to go into a totally different space and just dominate it. And I think for myself, you know, JJ Redick, but a lot of other guys, CJ McCollum, a lot of other guys in the space are starting to catch on to that. And you guys really paved the way in the way y'all have gone about it and staying true to who y'all are, I think is the most beautiful thing. What is your favorite thing about the podcast?

I think it's, I'm a fan of a lot of basketball players, right? And I'm a fan of a lot of people in different walks of life. So if you look at a lot of our shows, like even, like when it's, especially when the guests that I wanna know, I won't say much. You know what I'm saying? I just let Matt, 'cause I really wanna, I'm interested in knowing these people, you know? And I like conversation. Everything is really just a healthy conversation. But a lot of these people I'm fans of that we have on our show. So when I have, we have you on the show, we have Steph. Yeah, I know y'all, but I'm having a conversation with y'all that I've never had, right?

Yes.

So I'm learning, I'm learning y'all. I'm getting to know y'all too. So for me, I love having conversation and getting to know my guests. You know what I'm saying? Knowing what they like, knowing what they think, knowing about their childhoods. Because 90% of the guests we have, I'm a fan of.

Absolutely, no, it's incredible. And do you have a guest, a dream guest that you would want to have on the show that y'all haven't had yet? 'Cause it feel like, I feel like y'all had every fucking body.

Yeah, no, no, no, it's a lot more people we gotta have. I think for me, my dream guest would be probably, I would have to go Dave Chappelle.

Wow. For me.

That's a good one. For me right now, 'cause I mean, it's a lot of dead, it's a lot of ones that's dead right now that I wish I could have, you know, Medgar Evers or somebody like that, Malcolm X, some people like that, but alive, definitely, no question.

That's incredible. I think for me, I gotta, I hope to get Jay-Z because number one, obviously he is the epitome of Black excellence. He is, you know, when you look at a guy who came from drug dealing, which you and I know far too well, we know a million drug dealers coming up where we come up at. That's kind of like, I remember playing in the Civitan League which was a recreation center in our neighborhood. And guys didn't play on the high school team because they wanted to play in the Civitan League and didn't do anything else but wanted to sell drugs because that was the thing to do. Like you cool, you hip, you sell dope and you play in the Civitan League. That was it. You know? And so just looking at Jay-Z going from drug dealer to rapper to businessman to, all of that to owner of an NBA team, to his own agency, like you name it, he's done it all from clothing, spirits, champagne. Like he covers all the tracks. And I just feel like the game that I can soak up and the knowledge that I could soak up sitting here talking to Jay-Z and listening to Jay-Z, a lot like the knowledge and game that I can get soaking up from you. That's big for me. And Jay the GOAT, so.

Yeah.

Yeah, Jay. I would love to have Jay.

He definitely the GOAT, and he always dropping some gems. I got a gem from you that I don't know if you ever heard that he said that I've held with me over the years. That's probably why I'm still rich. A nigga Jay-Z say, "If you can't buy it twice, you can't afford it." Yep, yep. And that make a lot of sense. And I even think about that. I used to even think about that when I go out to clubs and stuff like that. Like, if I can't spend $10,000 on a section today and tomorrow, you know what I'm saying? I don't need to be doing it. But just that mentality and hearing somebody like that, that we both look up to, Jay-Z, say things like that, with where he at and where he come from, you gotta respect that, bro. You gotta listen.

You know what I'm saying? Absolutely.

Absolutely. I respect little things like that when he come like that.

Nah, it's incredible. And I appreciate that. You know, we all need them gems and just to keep on pushing with it. But in terms of the, obviously following in the name of the show, All the Smoke, which like you said, came from, you know, you and Matt like to smoke. The NBA recently, marijuana's no longer on the banned substance list. And I know that was something that you guys have fought for, for years. For a while. And it's finally happened. Do you think, like that's here to stay because it happened through the pandemic, right? Like we're going through the pandemic and it's like, hey, we not testing for marijuana right now. Do you think that's here to stay with the progression of everything we now know about marijuana? And is that a good thing? Because I think, you know, some guys, I mean, let's just face it. You and I both know some guys may abuse that, you know, maybe not. But do you think that's a good thing for our league moving forward? Yeah.

I think it's a good thing because a lot of these medications that they push on players, and players gonna start speaking up against a lot of those things and would rather be more natural. I think the reason why they stand on that side of it is because Michelle Roberts is her name, right?

Yeah.

She actually sat down and had a meeting with Al Harrington. And they did the pros and cons. They did the good and bad about all these things. So they understand that it's more benefits than the negative sides of it, right? That's one thing. Two, it's big business now.

Yeah.

So everybody, don't nobody wanna be cut out the business. Right? That's, so it's always about business. But then, you know, like with us, I mean, to ask your first question, I just think if nobody gets to a point where they abusing it. See, the reason why it took so long while we were in the league, because it was guys like me that smoked my whole career. Never missed a game, never was suspended, never got caught with it because I did it the right way, Draymond.

Absolutely.

I wasn't smoking for people to see. You know what I'm saying? My street cred is 1,000, so I wasn't smoking for people to say, "Oh, Jaxson smoking weed." I was doing it to calm down and be able to cope. You know what I'm saying?

Right.

With these games and playing with injuries and stuff like that. So, but it was guys, a lot of guys around that time getting pulled over with it, failing drug tests during playoffs and big games and just embarrassing the league. And that's what took so long to get to this point. But see, now the generation we have now, Y'all respect the game better than we did.

Yes, sir.

A lot of y'all, you don't see guys getting caught, pulled over and all that. You don't see that as much as we did when we were playing, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, we had to take some of those licks for it to be the way it is today. We understand that, you know what I'm saying? But to be able to be one of the guys that was speaking up, to have it legal now where guys can, if they not feeling well and they don't wanna take a whole bunch of pills, they wanna go home and smoke 'em a joint, they can do that peacefully now. I'm glad that I was one of the faces and one of the guys to speak up for that. But as long as guys, like you said, don't start abusing it, getting pulled over, getting criminalized for it in places that they shouldn't be with it and stuff like that, it should be fine.

Yeah, no, I think so too. And I think, like you said, guys are just in a much different space. And I think a part of it is also social media though, right?

That too.

We all know you have to be more on your P's and Q's than ever. Because in any, like, you just have to assume at all times you being recorded. Whereas y'all didn't have those same, those same things, those same pitfalls and things to worry about. Nobody's recording you every second y'all walk because camera phones weren't a thing, you know?

At the time.

And social media wasn't a thing. So news didn't travel as fast as it could. And so I think the awareness of that and understanding that definitely helps our generation. As opposed to y'all.

It saved us.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I've heard all the stories. I've definitely heard all this. Speaking of which, and hearing all the stories, like obviously I played with Draymond Green my second year in the league, my OG. And he would share all the stories about y'all. And just going back to the Malice of the Palace, obviously we all saw that, that was great. But y'all were actually getting into stuff that was way crazier than the Malice at the Palace. Way crazier. I know you had a situation at a club.

Yeah.

That didn't quite go the way you thought it was going when you went out that night.

Absolutely not.

Talk to us a little bit about that. 'Cause the thing that people don't know, y'all was tough as hell on the court, but y'all were probably tougher Off the court.

Yeah, 'cause you know, we all come from that demographic of where you had to be tough or you was gonna get swallowed up. You know what I'm saying? By your environment. You had to have a chip on your shoulder. I think with me, I think the reason why I survived that is because my heart was in the right place and I was just being a loyal friend. Like, the two incidents I've been in in the NBA was me being loyal to a fault. I'm leaving, we had a strip club in training camp. I'm me and Aaron leaving the club and we about to go to another club 'cause the strip club wasn't that popping. It was more men in there than anything. Anything. And as we're leaving the club, Jamal Tinsley is running out the club and some guys are chasing him. So Al didn't see it, so Al kept going. I ain't that type of dude to see that and be like, "Man, I ain't finna get in no trouble." See, he's finna— and just keep going. That ain't in me, bro. That's just not in me. So I stopped, I backed up, I took my tool out 'cause I had just got my gun license. I took my tool out, put it in my pants, and I ran over there. And by the time I got over there, they was about to try to hit him or whatever. So I let off a couple warning shots. 'Cause one thing about me, when it's stuff like that going on, I'm not finna get hit from behind or knocked out from the side or something like that and get stomped out in the parking lot. So they had about 25 guys with 'em. So guys just start coming out the club, right? So I let off a couple warning shots, pop, pop, pop in the air. And as I did that, security grabbed me. I'm like, "Get to your car, Jack. Get out of here." 'Cause this was a club we always go to. That's what all I did was go to strip clubs. So as I'm running to my car, one of the guys that they was with had already had plans on hitting me with his car. So I'm running to my car, all I hear is, "Eh!" He peeling out. He's going from his parking spot to this little— we in a small parking lot. He peeled out going about 30 miles per hour, and he's coming at me. So I wasn't drinking. So in my mind, I'm thinking like, I was quick thinking. I didn't wanna just stand there and let him take my legs, just run completely over me, kill me. So I kinda turned my back, Draymond, and hopped. When the car got close, I just hopped where my butt was on the hood. But my head hit the windshield and I flew in the air from the momentum of the car. I land face first. All my teeth come out. My lips are shattered. And I'm just hitting the ground, boom, boom, boom, boom, from the momentum. But I stand right up, right? And as I stand up, I'm dizzy, but how the parking lot is, for him to get out to get to the main street, he had to bust a U. So when he bust the U, his lights hit me dead in my face and woke me up. I pulled my gun out and chased him.

Wah, wah, wah.

Tried to blow his head. Wah, wah, wah. And as I chase him, I shoot my last two shots, and I realize everything that's going on, 'cause my adrenaline is all— I was all adrenaline. I just got hit by a car, I stood right up, then I passed out. Boom. Boom. I wake up in a police car with Marquise Daniels. They got me and Marquise in the back seat hemmed up, 'cause Marquise was on the other side and he held me down. He the only one held me down. Everybody out there got guns. Marquise the only one held me down. So they got us in the police car, but I'm knocked out, I'm unconscious in the police car. I hear him kicking the window. He think I'm dying because he see my mouth just, blood just pouring out my mouth 'cause my teeth gone, my lips shattered. And I'm unconscious, but he don't know if I'm breathing or not. So he kicking the car, like, "Let my boy out or he die!" And as he kicking one of the windows, I wake up. I'm like, "Bro, what's going on?" And then as I say that, I instantly feel my mouth. I'm like, "Oh, fuck." So they end up letting us go 'cause we had our gun license and the camera showed everything that went on. And they wanted us to get outta there before the cameras put— the news cameras came, which was love. They showed us love on all that.

Right.

Right? So after that, I had to go, I had violated probation 'cause I was on probation for the brawl.

Yeah, yeah.

I ended up doing 10 days, 10 days of some jail program in Detroit, violated probation in Indiana, all kind of stuff. Well, I had to, I had that night, I had to have plastic surgery on my lips with no anesthesia, bro, for 2 hours. No anesthesia, cutting the skin off my lips, digging debris out my mouth and my lips and my gums for 2 hours with no anesthesia. And the reason why they couldn't add any, because my lips was so swole, if they would've added some, my lips probably would've burst.

That's crazy.

I slept for 8 hours. As soon as he cut that last stitch, I went, I slept through X-rays, MRIs, everything. I slept for like 8 hours straight 'cause I was fighting pain for 2 hours. Most pain I've ever been in in my life.

That's insane, man. That's, as someone who play in the NBA, I can't even fathom going through, it's just not the way life is anymore for an athlete, you know, like, and I think David Stern did a lot of cutting that out, right? Like cleaning the league up and making sure nothing like that happen again. But that's insane, bro. But I know you gotta go. Like I said, I appreciate you taking the time, but I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you this last question.

Oh, wow.

Just like I said, speaking of our connective tissue in the beginning of the show, you came to the Warriors, had one of the best years here. And I don't know what y'all was doing here, man, but the way they love y'all around here is crazy. I have to hear stories from Eric Howson about you guys all the time. He worshiped the ground you walk on. He worshiped the ground Matt walk on, Jay Rich. Draymond Green, Monta, Al, that whole group. What was it that brought that team together? It happened at the deadline, right? Like, wasn't expected to make the playoffs. What was it that brought that team together to put y'all in a position to have the year that y'all end up having, beating Dallas in the first round, and kind of bringing life back to this organization? Because they hadn't seen anything, any winning, any sort of winning for years.

Well, I think the biggest thing is something that y'all highlight today with the team now. We cared about each other. You know what I'm saying? That was big. I think I had already knew, me and Matt were already best. I mean, Al was already best friends. I met Al at 18. He was 18, I was 20. I've been knowing BD since 16. I've been knowing Jay Rich for a while. And so these were a lot of guys that I knew, but we were all journeymen. We were all guys that were still trying to get together to prove something. And with Indiana, that was my second time being in trouble there in a year and a half, 2 years. They like, "Man, we gotta get rid of this guy. I mean, enough is enough." You know what I mean? So it was a blessing in disguise. Al didn't wanna go 'cause Al had just got traded back to Indiana.

Yeah.

He had just got traded back there and he had just bought a house. So they— but the only way for the trade to work was they had to put Al in the trade. And it was a blessing in disguise for all of us because things wasn't going right there. They didn't have a winning attitude though, you know? And I think we brought a swag to the team that was needed. You know, BD was doing his thing.

Yeah.

Jay Rich was doing his thing, but they didn't have a— we didn't have an identity. I think when we came, our identity became a scrappy team. They're not that— they don't look the best on paper, but they gonna bang and they gonna make you work every night to the point where we got confident. We started winning. I think we won 19 outta 21. To make it to the playoffs or something like that. But I think we cared about each other, but our coach let us be us. It was a number of things. The city embraced it, like the city was longing for it. Every night, Dray, we was in the city at some spot with all the regular people. Like the whole team, we in there shirt off, bandanas, drinking. We in there just like regular people every night, but it's the whole team, right?

Absolutely.

And I think, the team that the organization was losing for so long, being able to beat the number 1 seed in the first round, it felt like a championship, right?

Absolutely.

It felt like a championship to the whole Bay Area, right? And it just changed everything to the point when y'all came and won, it just felt like it was dressed up for it.

Yep.

You know what I'm saying?

Yep, absolutely.

It was a great time. Nelly let us be us. Quick story. Nelly, I was never captain on no team. Beginning of the season, Nelly asked me and Baron Davis to come to a bar and play shuffleboard with him. Never played shuffleboard in my life. It's not a Black game. Nobody plays shuffleboard.

Yeah.

So he brings that, we playing shuffleboard, we drink, he gets us drunk off 2 bottles of scotch and doesn't talk about basketball the whole time. And as he's leaving, as me and BD about to fall over on the bar, he tells, "Oh yeah, by the way," "I brought y'all here to tell y'all y'all captains." And walks out the restaurant, bro. While we sitting there trying to figure out how we gonna get home. He just walks out on us, man. He was the best, bro. He allowed us to be us and we gave him our all because he didn't try to change none of us. And that's the best compliment I got from a coach. Don Nelson is one of the winningest coaches ever.

Yep.

And the compliment after we beat the Mavs, he was like, "Well, one thing about Steven Jackson." If I had to pick a team, if I had to pick my starting 5, I wish I could have 5 Stephen Jacksons. So that's my whole deal to me.

That's incredible, man. And I definitely know how it is to be in Oakland and that love they show. Like I know with, like I said, the way it was going, no winning, and they can grab onto y'all and y'all as real as y'all are and showing them love, partying with them. I know how they grabbed onto that, 'cause I know how they grabbed onto me, you know, and just show you that love and kind of just adopt you as one of their own, man. Ain't no—

You gave that feel back over there. We gave them, you gave them, you brought that back. Yeah, the winning was cool, but that grit that the city is basically built off, you brought that back. You know what I'm saying? And so it was easy for them, like that's what they was looking for.

Absolutely. Nah, it's an incredible place, man. And they represent their own. Like nobody else, but Stack, man, I appreciate you coming on. Looking forward to coming back to All the Smoke, bro. Thanks again, man. Much respect and much love.

Nah, love for life, bro. Anytime you need me, you know I'm coming, man. Well, I appreciate you.

Wow, what an amazing interview with Stack Jack. Definitely wanna thank Stack again for coming on as a guest. Like I said before, they obviously hosted me on the show. So to have him on the show is incredible and just, You know, when you go on All the Smoke, they're picking my brain and asking me questions. And so just to pick his brain and kind of get some of that history, uh, some of that game, uh, I never take that for granted, you know. So when I'm, when I'm having these conversations, uh, with these guys, I'm learning just as much as everyone out there listening, and I am enjoying it just as much, you know, hearing these stories, hearing these guys' points of view. You know, they're a little older than me, so their time in the league and their era in the NBA is a little different than some of the eras I touched. So, you know, just being able to take all this information in this game, man, is extremely special. So again, I wanna thank Stack Jack for coming on to the Draymond Green Show. That's gonna be a wrap for this week. Looking forward to everybody tuning in next week. Make sure y'all continue to subscribe. Subscribe. Check out the Draymond Green Show on The Volume. That's a wrap for episode 5. Tune in next week. But while y'all at it, circle back through and keep checking that game out I'm giving y'all. Much love, Draymond Green Show, peace. Peace.