Stephen A. Smith on MVP race, NBA Finals predictions & media landscape | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. As you know, this is season 2 and I am honored to have this next guest as our first guest of season 2. A brother of mine, a mentor of mine who needs no introduction. He actually has a memoir coming out January 17th. Make sure you go preorder that and check that out as I am extremely excited. It is called Straight Shooter. The No Mercy Podcast with Stephen A. Smith. First Take host, co-host, I say the star of the show, however you would like to refer to him, you do yourself. But I'm honored to have this next guest. Thank you for coming on the show, my brother Stephen A. Smith. What's going on?

What's up, Big Tom? How you doing, man? How's everything?

I'm fantastic. How about you?

I'm doing great, man. I wanna applaud you, man, because you know, you always been a brave brother. I mean, usually you got cats like LeBron with the Shop and other shows, they run from somebody like me. They don't want me on, you know, but Draymond brought me on, you know. Nah, I'm just playing. What's going on, man?

What's up? Oh man, nothing much. It's funny that you say that. I was just gonna say I'm nervous as hell for this interview. I've probably done more, preparing for this interview than I have. And the reason being, I think you respect greatness. And when someone is great at something, you only want to bring your best to that. And so I understand and appreciate you as the GOAT. And when I say the GOAT, it's from a different perspective than most people will look at it. I think when you think of sports media, you're right up there at the top with anybody. But I personally think you have created a lane for yours that only you live in. And I think, you know, I've watched other people try to come in that lane. And to me, it honestly, it doesn't look as genuine. But when I say the GOAT, I look at someone who's went about staying true to themself and yet creating a lane like you have. And I think my first question would be, How did you, and coming into this business and especially coming in in the '90s when you came in, how, was it almost impossible or hard, I would say, to stay true to yourself and ascend into the greatness that you have?

Oh, no question. It was very, very difficult. See, what happened is that there was no social media. So there was no Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or anything like that. To be a person that would ultimately have a license to express your opinions, you had to work through a minefield in media. You had to write, you had to report, you had to break stories, you had to cultivate contacts and resources. And then after you did all of that, you had to hope and pray that there were bosses, editors, et cetera, that were supportive enough to want to elevate you. One of the things that I tell people all the time is that, you know, a legend like Mike Wilbon, a true legend in our business who's been around for many, many years, along with various others. The reason why Mike Wilbon was such a legend is because Mike Wilbon was one of the first to ever get an opportunity to express his opinion. You know, guys like the late Ralph Wiley, God rest his soul, and others. Had the late Brian Burwell, who was a friend for USA Today. They were pioneers because they were put in a position where they got a license to express their opinion. In 2003, Draymond Green, I became a general sports columnist. Columnist is the highest title that you can have because it's the license to give your opinion, not just report.

Mm-hmm.

I was the 21st African American in American history to get that title. That means there was only 20 before me. Now you can look at it and say, "Wow, that's a great accomplishment." But there's a negative to that. That means in 2003, as recently as 2003, throughout American history, America never saw fit for but 20 other Black people to be—

That's incredible.

To have a license to express their opinion. So understanding that, I always wanted to express myself, which is why when guys like you and others came along later and took full advantage of the ability to express yourself, I was like, "Hold up, hold up, hold up." [LAUGHTER] You think I got a problem with it? This is what I wanted. I want you to express yourself. I want you to have that freedom. I don't want you to feel— because you couldn't control the message back then. You had to hope and pray that you could cultivate a relationship with somebody well enough to express so they could express themselves on your behalf. You don't have to do that today. And I'd like to believe I had something to do with helping that happen.

I definitely think so. You know, I've, over the course of the years, you've been one to welcome the banter. You've been, you know, the candor. That's something that you've always welcomed. Where do you think that come from? Does that come from growing up? In New York, or does that just come from, you know, your makeup and your build in media?

Well, it's a combination of both. I'm from the streets of New York City, bro. You know, on my best day, I could never ball like you. You know, Steph is an idol. You know, LeBron is somebody I idolize. I'm an MJ dude all day, every day. You know, I mean, the list goes on and on. But you know, you talking sports and, You gotta remember, and I often tell people this, when it comes to the world, when it comes to the world of sports, everybody thinks they're the expert. That's what people don't realize. See, with news and politics and stuff like that, we are deferential to people because you might know things about policy that I might not know.

You know?

Absolutely. Laws, legislation, all this stuff. We don't know. That's the fear that people have in getting involved because you don't wanna open your mouth and be completely ignorant. 'Cause you know, you don't know. What's going on in Capitol Hill, right? But in sports, nobody could tell you anything. If you saw a dude playing, he shot 2 for 20, then he shot 2 for 20.

And so— Absolutely.

So to me, my aspiration was always to be a commentator/columnist. The reason why is because I knew that the news was the news. Okay, here it is. And then if you had enough, if you cultivated enough sources, all right, fine, you could put that out to everybody. But people wanna know how you feel in the world of sports because they want one or two things. They wanna know that you agree with them. And if you don't agree with them, they wanna know why. So they can argue with you. You play, you're a 4-time champion, and you have people that will come to you and literally try to tell you what's going on with the Golden State Warriors, even though you the one in the locker room and you the one upstairs and all of this other stuff. They're like that. They're not asking about you. They're not asking. They're literally telling you, "Nah, that's BS. This is what's going on." And they have no clue. And so for me, I've often— I knew that I was never that way. I always prided myself in being a guy that was an instigator and a provocateur of dialogue. I'm the guy that got you talking about what needed to be talked about, as opposed to people who wanted to create narratives to escape what really needed to be talked about. That's what I've always prided myself in doing. And I've been that way since I was young.

I think that's incredible because I think over the years, one thing that I've watched with you on TV is when you've brought other athletes like myself on and a Kendrick Perkins, Matt Barnes, Patrick Beverley as of recent, JJ Redick. You don't go on and claim to know more about the game of basketball than JJ Redick, or sit there and try to discuss an X and O with Patrick Beverley. You don't do that. I've almost watched you take a back seat on television to those guys when it come to basketball. Now, never shying away from the dialogue and the debate and your point of view, but yet not quite arguing the X's and O's of it.

Draymond Green.

And I've seen that on TV with quite a few guys and it doesn't make sense to me. Why has that been your approach and going about it in your career?

'Cause it's the right thing to do. The fact of the matter is on far too many occasions athletes are not appreciated for the greatness that exists within y'all. I'm talking about mentally. The hard work, dedication, and the knowledge that comes with doing what y'all do. It's stupid to want to refrain y'all from doing, from expressing that. That's number one. Number two is respect. You know, JJ Redick comes on the air and there's a lot of athletes that have come on the air and they expected a confrontation. And I'm like, the confrontation is real, but not volatile. I want you to know I'm challenging a specific point you're making, but that doesn't mean I'm challenging you. I know that you know more than I do. I'm just challenging this point that we're debating about because that's what it's about. Number 3, I'm coming from a place of journalistic integrity because that's my foundation, right?

Absolutely.

So I'll tell an athlete, You know, the difference between me and I'm just, you know, is what I know just based on what I see. Not that I've ever had this conversation with my contemporaries, so I'm not throwing anybody under the bus here or anything like that. But you have people who think they know and they wanna show the world they know what you know. When guys come on First Take or they talk to me, one of the reasons I can be so hardcore in my opinions is because I'm saying you have every opportunity to talk to me. Draymond Green, who can't get a hold of my number if they want it?

Who can't— Everybody can get a hold of me.

Who can't fail to reach me if they want to reach me? It's ridiculous. So my point is, is that if you know how to reach me and you know I'm going to listen, it ain't my fault if you don't want to talk. That's your problem. But if you do want to talk, here's what I'm going to do. I'm not going to challenge your information as much as I'm going to challenge whether or not you're telling us everything we need to know. So if JJ Redick comes on the air or Patrick Beverley comes on the air, somebody— I'm like, wait, wait, wait a minute now, you know? And that's me saying, oh, you know more than you saying, or you got more to say than you actually saying. Give it to me. It's my job to bring the best out of them, not to make them look foolish. And that's what I don't try to do that I don't try to outdo them or be right. I believe I have an opinion that's better. Sure, I'm gonna bring it. There's no doubt about that. But at the end of the day, you know, and that's why JJ Redick was a colleague that's now become a friend. And the list goes on and on for football players and basketball players, 'cause I want First Take to be that kind of conduit. I want cats to know, oh, the door, the door's open. Here you go.

You wanna sit?

You wanna sit across from me? You got something to say? Let's go. And that's what it's all about. And hopefully, Thankfully, rather, a lot of them have gotten that message, if not all of them that have come on First Take. I haven't had one single problem with anybody that's ever come on First Take or sat down and had been interviewed by me because that is a message that I make sure that they receive, that it's coming from a place of respect. I might be challenging this point, but I'm not challenging you. There's a difference. Mm-hmm.

I think that's incredible, and it actually leads into my next question. So my wife is an actress, As she's continued to go deeper and deeper into her craft, I've watched her like drop into these moments to like, you know, just get into these certain mind spaces that she need to be in for a particular scene or audition. And my question to you is, in debate TV, is there ever a point where you personally feel attacked or disrespected And does it ever, like, does it ever really get heated, um, in those conversations? So obviously we just had the discussion about you with other basketball players and about basketball, but that's not, that's not all you debate about. You don't just debate with basketball players, and it's, and it's definitely not just about basketball. Is there ever a point where it really gets heated? Because I've been watching some debate TV, in which we'll get into it about, and to me It looks like at times there could be some acting, number one. And at times it truly does get personal and really heated to where once those cameras go off, there may be some words exchanged.

Well, I would tell you this. I wouldn't go as far as saying when the camera went off, there's an exchange of words because I'mma say what I have to say on camera since you wanted to say what you had to say on camera. I ain't gonna wait till we get off the air if you say something on the air. All right, you wanna bring it? Okay, here I am. For better or worse, I would tell you that there have been instances, Jay Williams and I have gotten into heated discussions, but it's never affected our relationship 'cause we're pretty tight. I love my brother and it's cool. Will Cain, who used to be on ESPN and is now on Fox News, we got in a lot of heated discussions where we were very, very serious about what we were saying, but it never extended to off the air because I understood I knew that he was different than me politically. His political makeup was different than mine anyway. So I expected those heated discussions. I remember the one time where things almost got— This is the one time I almost, almost lost it, when T.O. came on the air and said that Max seemed Blacker than me. Now, I addressed it on the air, but where it almost got dicey There's a lot of stuff that has been involved with T.O. over the years. And it took everything in me not to go all in, not to really like, you know, because let's be very, very clear. I'm sorry if it offends anybody or anything like that. When it comes to what I do for a living, which is television and debate and stuff like that, Dray, I ain't gonna lie, I think I'm the best on the planet. I just do. I just do. I don't—

I agree.

I literally don't worry about a human being when it comes to debate. I just don't, especially on my platform. It's like, you got to be kidding me. And so when he walked into that lion's den, I had to remember my humanity. I had to remember, listen, I'm a brother. This is a brother. I disagree with him. I don't like it, et cetera, et cetera. And there are things that I could have brought up, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. But that was the closest that I had ever come to like getting medieval. And there's a different element that was about to come outta me, but I stopped myself.

Now that's, I think that's self-control, especially in what you do. Like I think it teeters that line, right? Of like, 'Yo, like you said, I'm not quite disrespecting you, but I'mma go at you.' But the flip side that I think people don't realize is there's another human being involved and that have actual feelings. These are real people talking.

Right.

And you don't know how they may feel. So although you may be so grounded in your emotions and how to control those emotions, how to stay in that space of I'm debating and it's just that, but you don't necessarily know how that other person may feel.

Right.

And how do you combat that per se?

Well, for me, you gotta remember, "First Take" is my show. I mean, Molly Karen works with me, she does a phenomenal job, but I'm the star of the show and now I'm the executive producer. That's incredible.

Congratulations, by the way.

Thank you. And everybody that's come on the show been handpicked by me. And so what happens is, what I do, Draymond, is, I make sure I spoke to every single person on the show before they come on. This is what the show is. This is what it needs to be. I'm gonna challenge you. I want you to challenge me. We gonna make fun of each other. We gonna laugh. We gonna have a good time. And I said, when shots are fired, shots are fired. It's all in fun.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, and when you make sure that you couch, you know, debates with that, not on an everyday basis or anything like that. Like I said, it was only one conversation with these folks. But they know, they know when I come on the air, listen, I've been blessed, I've been fortunate, I've been very successful at ESPN. They know I'm trying to make them successful. They know, you know, JJ knows I wanted him calling games. Richard Jefferson knows I wanted him calling games. You know, when Kimberly Martin or Monica McNutt, beautiful females who do a phenomenal job for us, they know I want them doing what they do for the league. Shania Ogwumike and the job that she's doing at NBA Today, phenomenal. Matt Barnes doing his thing, Kendrick Perkins. I know y'all had y'all issues, all that stuff. Don't get me wrong, but that's my man. I love him and I want him to do great things, just like I want you to do great things. I want Molly to do great things.

Appreciate it.

And when you have somebody that's in front of you, that's in my position, that's not just rooting for you, but telling you and showing you I'm rooting for you and putting you in a position like, you gotta remember, there were times in the past on many occasions, whether it was with Skip Bayless, it was with Max Kellerman, or anybody else, Draymond Green, I could have touched on issues, but I left it to them because America needed to hear from them, not me, on that particular issue.

Facts.

It's television, but you also gotta think about the audience. You gotta think about who that audience is and what kind of message you want to send and who's best to send it. And so all of those decisions are made in real time. And when you have somebody that's the catalyst like myself on First Take, that's letting you know, look, I'm going to disagree with you. Our opinions are not phony. It's authentic. We're giving the audience what they want without giving them the vitriol, without giving them the animosity or the hatred or nothing like that. Patrick Beverley comes on first, get up in First Take, and he going off on CP3. Patrick Beverley, my man, like a little brother to me. I love Patrick Beverley. Know him, know his mother, know everybody.

Known him for years.

But I know he's not CP3, and I know that you can't talk about CP3 like he's some scrub. You can't do that. I mean, he's a Hall of Famer. What are you talking about? You know? So, so in other words, so I had to sit up there and challenge him on that without disrespecting him, because I understand part of it is their history together. It wasn't him just talking. They have animosity towards one another. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

And that's the difference. It's understanding that, and then it's pulling him to the side and saying, look, bro, you got a future here. Don't waste your time being dominated by that issue. You can talk NBA. You don't have to talk CP3. Those are the kind of things. You helping them because I want him to be successful when his playing career is over. So I think about that. And I just share that knowledge because to me that's my responsibility.

I think that's, I can appreciate that. Before I get into my next question, one thing I wanna say is, number one, in just listening to you name all that list of people that you just named and like all the careers that you've touched already. And quite frankly, I'll throw myself into that bucket, all the help and knowledge that you've given me. Over the course of these years. I appreciate it and I thank you. 'Cause I think, you know, a lot of people don't see that. You know, a lot of people don't see me have a rough moment and you call like, "Hey man, I know you going through this. Here's a way you can think about this. Here's a different way." Never saying, "Draymond, go and say X, Y, and Z." But here's a different way you can think about this. And here's how the voice or the ear of America may hear this. You know, and just giving me a different perspective. You being someone like, like I said, who's teetered that line of controversial.

And made my mistakes.

Absolutely. Opinionated, right? I think most of the times people, I wouldn't necessarily say controversial. I would say very opinionated. And people confuse opinionated with controversial. And I don't think they're the same thing. We know controversial, that's someone that's going out there to make hot takes and they're making their hot takes just to create controversy.

Right.

Not what you do, and I don't think a lot of people understand that. And so this is me, number one, I just want to give you your flowers and say thank you, not only for myself, but also for that group that you just named.

Appreciate it.

A lot of that group that you just named, I have a lot in common with, whether it's athlete, whether it's young African Americans trying to continue to break into this space, you know, or whatever the case may be. And so I just want to say thank you for who you've been to myself, for who you've been to all of us, and how you've trailblazed the path, but continue to give back to everybody who has a question to you. Thank you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate that, man. Thanks a lot. That means a lot because that's what I wanna do. And I really believe it's my responsibility. If I wasn't trying, you know what, I've often said this. I remember sometimes people have asked me questions, you know, athletes come at you and people dislike you or whatever the case would be. And I say, they said, why don't you change? I said, there is no athlete. That can ever look at me and say I was somebody who wished they failed. You can't find one. That is a lie. Anybody that ever says that about me, it's a lie because I want everybody to succeed. I want everybody to eat. But when you're covering sports, there are winners and there are losers. There are those who are elite, there are those who are not. There are those who struggle, there are those who don't. And you gotta chronicle that story.

Mm-hmm.

While still allowing them to maintain their humanity. I understand that better now than I did when I was younger. But I'd like to believe for the most part throughout my life, I've always tried to walk in that path.

I think it's incredible. And just moving forward in everything that you've done in your career with this new background. Now for everybody out there, we're recording this and I'm the first to see this background, just so y'all know.

Yeah.

However, y'all won't be the first to see it because there's no way I would debut this background before it debuts on the No Mercy podcast. I have way too much respect for you for that. But No Mercy, No Mercy, No Mercy is definitely a play on words there. Explain, can you explain to us where the title, the naming of your podcast, Who came up with that and how did you come with that?

Well, my team came up with that, Terry Fox, Rashawn McDonald, you know, and of course myself. Although I have other folks working for me, it was primarily those two. And I loved it because it was a double entendre per se. When no mercy, N-O, is warranted, I'll be in that mode. When K-N-O-W, no mercy, is warranted, I'll be in that mode. And so I look at it from that perspective because, you know, you have people who genuinely make mistakes, who do some things that they regret, and that's K-N-O-W. Then you have some people who have no compassion, no sensitivity, no mercy, no thoughtfulness, no anything, and they require N-O. You see what I'm saying?

Yes.

So I looked at it from that perspective, and it's not a sports podcast. It's not something that's via ESPN. It's owned and operated by me. I own it. I'm responsible for it. I'm 100% in control. Control of the content that appears on this podcast. And it ventures, it has no limits. I talk politics, I talk sports, I talk pop culture and entertainment, I talk social justice issues, I do interviews, I do stuff by myself. The list goes on and on. I've interviewed politicians, I've interviewed the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, I've had Snoop Dogg and LL Cool J on, you know, I'm gonna have some folks on in the future. And I just want to be in a position where you know, just like I've made a difference in the world of sports, I wanna make a difference in the world beyond sports. And I want my voice to be something that resonates so significantly that if you want to do a podcast and you want to make sure you get a message out, you think about coming through No Mercy to do just that. That's the kind of impact that I've always aimed to have. And that's the kind of impact that I expect to have with this.

And you've been doing that. And speaking of No Mercy, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this question. A guy who I don't think people will ever be able to separate y'all names just because of the history on First Take. Skip Bayless.

Yeah.

Recently made some comments, and when speaking of no mercy, recently made some comments about Damar Hamlin. And the comments that he made live during the game, I think, Everyone knew immediately in that moment they were wrong. Like, this guy just passed out. We just watched CPR be administered on live television, and you say a game should continue? That's no mercy. That's not having any, number one, feel. I think the feel there is just off.

Yeah.

But no, secondly, That to me, I always speak about how people view the athlete and that's having no mercy at all for just the athlete, for the mindset. You know, when you think of today's day and age and everyone, the awareness around mental health and all of these different issues. And to say that someone who, you know, Steph Curry's a brother of mine, like Klay Thompson, is my brother. You, you, you, you, blood, sweat, and tears with these guys. You experience some of the highest of highs in life with these guys and some of the lowest of lows in life with these guys. And to say that you can just witness that, number one, as a player, let's not even look at it from Draymond Green's standpoint in his life. Let's just look at it from the standpoint of players, athletes in general.

Okay.

To say that Josh Allen can witness that and then just go call a play and throw a football? Like, what about the compassion for the athlete? Now, I don't even want to go to the compassion for Damar and his family because that's a totally different thing.

Yeah.

And that, I mean, that really goes to an entirely different category. So I'm really just trying to keep it sports. But when speaking of no mercy and someone that you've worked with, what was your opinion and Thoughts on Skip and then to double down and say, "Oh no, I stand on that." Even after knowing the condition that he's in. I guess for me, I can respect you saying you stand on your opinion. I can respect that. But at the same time, it feels low.

First of all, let me get this out the way. Skip was wrong. Plain and simple. If we were on First Take together, and he was sitting across from me, I'd have told him he was wrong. There's no doubt about that. And that needs to be said. At that particular moment in time, you can use a phrase, feel in the room, you can use whatever other phrases that you want, but at the end of the day, it reached a point where it was not about football. It was not about games. It was about a man's life, a young man's life being on the line. So there is no defending that. And I agreed with Shannon Sharpe's position on that. Having said that, what I will say, and there were people that wrote articles that Stephen A. came to the defense. No, I didn't. But I did explain. What I mean by that is, number one, it's important that I preface any comment about Skip Bayless in terms of saying this. Draymond, I'm not here today if it were not for Skip Bayless. Skip Bayless is the one that brought me on First Take. And I will never walk around like I don't owe that man a lot. But I disagreed with him after I owed him that. On First Take every day. So why can't I disagree with him now? And why wouldn't I disagree with him in the future? I'm sure he would disagree with me. I promise you he disagrees with what I'm saying right now. That comes with it. But remember when I talked about attacking what someone does as opposed to attacking them?

Mm-hmm.

I've known Skip for 20 years. I know people who despise him. I know people who think the worst of him. I know all of these different things. I'm not one of those people. And I will always have love for my man. I think he was wrong, but I also knew what mistake he made. Draymond Green, he's looking at the game and here's what he's thinking about. He's seen Jack Tatum paralyze Darryl Stingley. He saw Michael Irvin on the turf at Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, believably paralyzed. He just recently saw Tua Tagovailoa get carried off the same field in Cincinnati by ambulance and was concussed. I mean, his body stiffened up like it had rigor mortis, like rigor mortis kicked in. And throughout NFL history, which Skip Bayless has been covering since the '70s, he's seen the game continue. And a lot of times people are not taking that into account. You can say we're living in a different time. That is true. We are living in a different time. But you also have others who hold on to a certain culture. Now, sometimes they hold on to certain cultures in the world of politics. We don't like that. World of news, don't like that. Social justice issues, we damn sure don't like that. But in the world of sports, there's tens of millions of people who hold on to the way things used to be.— which is what the new media, as you like to call yourself, right? Like to, like to bring up how you got cats that hold on to it. What I'm saying to you, Draymond Green— well, that's who you're talking about. That's the guy. The guy that is like, this is the way that things were done. This is what customarily happened. So he wasn't tweeting like, the hell with this guy's well-being or health or anything like that. I know Skip Bayless enough to know that he cares whether or not DeMar Hamlin lives or dies. And people that extended themselves to accuse him of that, I think are totally wrong. But was he guilty of, okay, well, this is— well, serious stuff has happened before. Because remember, we don't see, we don't know how— we know it's serious. We know they're trying to resuscitate him, but We don't know the particulars. Well, okay, they're going to take him out in the ambulance and then the game is going to continue. I know a lot of people who felt exactly that, but not necessarily because it should. They're saying it because that's been the history of the NFL.

Mm-hmm.

But times have changed. And I would've said to him, fair enough, thinking that he believed what I just articulated. I would've said, "Fair enough, but you know better." And that same tweet could've been put out 24 hours later.

Mm-hmm.

And it would not have been treated with the same vitriol as it was. But unfortunately, he didn't have someone in his ear to tell him that. And, you know, it is what it is.

As I can honestly sit here and say, I'm not one to shy away from an opinion, as you know.

Sure.

I don't like Skip Bayless. I'm not a Skip Bayless fan at all. I don't think Skip Bayless is smart enough to have got me to see another side the way you just did. The way you just got me to see the side that he could have possibly been seeing, Okay. Um, it's special in itself, but it's also, uh, it needs to be heard because if I'm being honest, I didn't see that side at all. I did not, not one bit. And I thank you for that because number one, that will help me continue to grow, uh, in this space. But I think, like I said, the world needs to hear that because, and, and I think another thing that I really didn't appreciate was Even after the fact on Undisputed the next day, it still wasn't this. It was like, "I stand on that and that." Right. And it's just like, ah, and that's where I think—

Well, that's where we're aligned. That's where we're aligned. Because see, I was more disappointed in the next day only because, all right, this is what everybody's feeling. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

It's like, listen, because I was saying, Skip, I know you. You know, you better than that. You see what I'm saying? Regardless of what anybody else wanna believe, I know sides of him I've seen, and I know he's better than that. It's like, yo, just give it up. You know, I shouldn't have sent that text last night.

Yeah.

That wasn't the time and the place to do it. That's all. But, you know, I can assure you, some people think that it's a prideful thing where he can't admit that he's wrong. I take it a step further. I don't think he thinks he was wrong at all. I think he was right with what he was telling Shannon the next day. And usually I don't have time to watch it 'cause I got my own show to do, but they came on a half hour earlier and I knew what had transpired the day before. So I had to see if it was all right. And then I reached out to him. I said, "If you need to talk, I'm here." but he hasn't reached back and I understand he's going through a lot right now.

Yeah, no, I respect that. And you being on the other side of that table and sitting in Shannon's spot, you know, like you said, Skip brought you onto the show. So at one point, you know— At one point I would believe he probably had more say in the show than you did. Then you kept— Absolutely.

No, no, no, totally, totally. I always deferred to him, Dray, because, Even though I got there and my star had ascended, and again, he had been beyond that point of going to games. He had done that for 30-some years or whatever. He wasn't doing that anymore. You know me, I love going to games. I love being inside that locker room. I can't as much as I used to 'cause I got the daggone show to do and my obligations. But anytime I can show up to a game, I'll show up just so brothers can see me and talk to me.

Absolutely.

But with him, you know, so my star was ascending. But I was always mindful he brought me here. That's his show. That's his show. And I never, never once took that away from him.

So do you think a part of Shannon feels that way now? Whereas like, I could see that Shannon felt disrespected. I could see that Shannon was kind of hurt. And you could just see that it was so personal to him being that he's been on that same football field. He's been tackled that same way for 15 years. But I'm asking more so from the grand scheme, like, so Shannon took the day off, right? And Shannon spoke about why he took the day off. But do you think Shannon is more handcuffed that Skip has more say in the show and that he has to suppress a little bit more? Or do you think that's just growth?

I think that's natural. I think that's natural. I think that anybody in Shannon's position would feel that way. But what I would tell you is this, you know, listen, I've been blessed and fortunate enough to— for First Take, we've been, you know, we arrived, I arrived in the spring of 2012. We've been number one since. I've been number one for 11 years. And Shannon and Skip have been the competition for the last 6. Let me be very, very clear with what I'm saying. I don't know Shannon that well. We've spoken a few times over the years.

Mm-hmm.

I have a lot of respect for Shannon Sharpe. I know it's not supposed to be popular to say because he's the competition, man. Damn all of that. He's a brother. I got love for him. I respect the hell out of him. And every time I see him, I greet him very fondly. And I will remind everybody, he's one of the greatest tight ends in the history of football.

Yes.

And he's a Hall of Famer. This ain't some scrub like I was. This brother was something special. Okay? And so, to watch him in this business, trying to do what he's doing, I respect the hell out of him. And I can only imagine the kind of position that he found himself in, in light of Hamlin's injury. The only thing that I would say, if Shannon had come to me and asked my advice, for example, Here's the only thing that I would say. That's your chair. You don't give it up for nobody. That's yours. You see what I'm saying? I don't give a damn if you were in the chair and had nothing to say. You see what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

And you just wanna give it to him. You don't miss sitting in that chair because there's an audience out there that expected to see you.

Yes.

But I understood him, like every single NFL player, present and former, that I've spoken to. Hearts was in the right place, going through a lot. I remember that time Kenny Smith, during the whole social justice movement, walked off the set of TNT because he didn't feel it was a good idea for him to be there. You remember that? When Kenny Smith got up—

Absolutely.

And turned around, right? Right? Well, Kenny Smith will tell you, I called him and I said to him, my brother, I love you. You know, that's my queen's brother. His brother Vincent Smith used to train me for crying out loud, at Lost Italian Hall in New York City when I was trying to be half the player Kenny "The Jet" Smith was, okay? I idolized Kenny Smith and I love him like a brother. And I called him and I told him, which he would tell you. I said, brother, you sure that was the right decision? And he's like, Stephen A., I just felt like it was the right thing to do. I said, I get that, but that chair matters. We need to see you. And I often think about that when I think about myself. When you turn on First Take, it's one thing if I'm going on vacation or I got a day off or something like that. But when some real stuff hits, you turn on First Take, you expect to see Stephen A.

100%.

And Stephen A. gonna show up. I'm gonna show up. And that's what I would encourage Shannon, Kenny Smith, or anybody, Shaq, Barkley, anybody else. We fought for centuries to have a voice. You got it, you don't give it up. That's my point.

Absolutely. And we've been here for 41 minutes. Honestly, I could sit here and ask you questions for 2 hours. I know you the business, man.

I got all the time in the world for you, bro.

We good. I appreciate you, but I do want to ask a, a couple more questions before I get into the basketball side of things.

Sure.

Number one, your memoir is coming out January 17th, Straight Shooter. Can you tell us a little more what we can expect when I open that cover and I read through? What can I expect to read and learn about you, about the business, just about your perspectives? What can we expect from your memoir, Straight Shooter?

Man, my life, my trials and tribulations, my relationship with my dad, my relationship with my mom, my career, the trials and tribulations, getting fired, getting rehired, you know, the cynicism, the controversies that I've been in, whether it's Ray Rice and domestic violence, whether it's Shohei Ohtani and the Asian American community and Asian and Asian American community. Steph Curry, Ayesha Curry. Wait till you read about that chapter. You know what I'm saying? I mean, there's a chapter about Mrs. Steph Curry in my book. You'll know it. You'll be very familiar with the story once you read it. All of those things. And of course, Skip Bayless, Max Kellerman, the history of First Take, my career at ESPN. Quite frankly, the list goes on and on. I've been involved in a lot of stuff over the years. And there's a lot of things that you couldn't say because you were working for the worldwide leader and it involved them. But major, major props to them because while I'm still working for them, I wrote what the hell I wanted to write. And I showed it to them ahead of time. And they were like, okay. And they gave me no pushback at all. And I admit, I was kind of shocked by that because I expected pushback. Mm-hmm. They gave me zero. And so it's long overdue. I would have written it years ago. But I promised my mother, I would never write the book until she passed away. She never wanted me to write the book while she was alive, because she knew that there were certain truths that I was going to tell, particularly as it pertained to my relationship with my father and why. And she did not want to be alive when that happened. So I had promised her years ago that I would never do it until she passed away. And so when she passed away in 2017, I waited a few years and then I finally decided to do it. And they say it's gonna be, they say it might be a best, they said it's a bestseller already. They said pre-sales, I've already sold over 10,000, 11,000 books, something like that. And they expected, they expected to be on the bestseller list. So we'll see.

That's incredible. So this book is also like, it's also therapeutic for you. Like you getting some stuff off your chest. Also, by the way, before we go into that, I ain't taking no Steph Curry and Ayesha slander now, Stephen A.

Nah, nah, nah, come on now, Draymond Green. Let me tell you something right now. Look, I'm ashamed at how much I love Steph Curry. I'm ashamed. And you know me, I would never, ever, ever come close to disrespecting somebody's woman. I would never do that.

Of course.

It's just a story that directly involves her that had an indirect effect on me. And that's where that comes from.

Ah, okay. I'm interested in reading that.

Yes.

No, but so this book is also some therapy for you though. Getting some stuff off your chest. And also as someone who's like, I plan on doing that one day as well. And as someone who has had dad issues in a way, I would say. So as a part of this, sharing your story and also understanding now that other guys may be going through that same thing. 'Cause I know—

Absolutely.

As I've started to talk about my dad issues more, I realize you start talking to someone and you like, Man, I wasn't the only one going through that, but you feel like you were when you going through it. Is it some of that in this moment? Of course.

Of course it is. Because, you know, when I was going through the issues I was going through with my dad, my brother Basil, God rest his soul, he passed away in a car accident in 1992, but he was there for me. And so, you know, I'm the youngest of 6. That was my brother. And he helped me out like that. So what happens years later, The Allen Iversons of the world and various other cats, along with the Draymond Greens of the world and others who come to me talking to me, even Shaq and others, y'all may be bigger, but I'm older.

Absolutely.

So it's like, so my experiences and just being able to help in any way I can. And once again, that's where part of my defiance come from, where I can stand up toe to toe with any athlete and have a discussion because I know I'm not trying to hurt nobody. I'm doing my job, yes. I'm gonna be fair-minded, yes. But off the record, off the court, what do you need? You see what I'm saying? Whatever you need, I can help you. You know, for example, a guy like, for example, I just put out there, a guy like DeMarcus Cousins, he can't stand me. I don't know why. I don't know why.

That's my brother, by the way.

But listen, he hates me. I don't know why. But the point is that what he never realized, Draymond, when I came to talk to him in the locker room and he refused to talk to me that one time, when we were all in Philadelphia. I was coming to offer him an opportunity to be an analyst. I watched him do an interview and I liked him. And I went to the bosses and said, "If they don't do X, Y, and Z in the playoffs, we can use that guy." Literally, that's what I was coming for. But, you know, he put me off. And so, okay, you know, opportunity lost. And that's the way it goes. But the point is, you bring names like that up, along with various other athletes that I've had issues with from time to time throughout the years. Not many, not nearly as many as people think, 'cause by and large, I get along with most of y'all. But the point is, is that I want y'all to do great. If I—

Thank you.

Have nobody that I can point to that I helped, I didn't do my job. I didn't do my job. You had an obligation to give back, and you got cats that really, really wanna be in this business.. And they have an opportunity to. I went to T.O. years ago. Yo, bro, you realize who you are? You're a top 3 receiver on the planet.

Absolutely.

You could be making millions doing this. Let me talk to these cats. He brushed me off. I'm like, okay. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying, you okay? I mean, it's like, I mean, it's like I'm not asking cats to come on for free. You know what I'm saying? I'm looking, I'm looking at, because I'm watching, you know me, I'm looking at guys, I watch the way they articulate themselves, I watch the way they project, see what they bring to the table. And then I'm like, imagine if you had the right platform to do it. Imagine what you could do. And unfortunately, far often than not, they don't see that opportunity. And you just, you're looking at them and you're saying, guys, think about the big picture. Let's wake up. Because those who are successful, sort of big picture before the rest of us. Pay attention.

For a guy like DeMarcus, who I think, you know, I have a relationship with.

Who, by the way, belongs in the league. No excuse for him not to be in the NBA.

No excuse. 100%.

No excuse.

I think that's a no-brainer. Like, when I even look at some guys in the NBA, and there's no disrespect to any NBA player, any guy you see in the NBA, can play basketball. Like no disrespect to any, but there's a lot of guys in the NBA that is not as good as DeMarcus Cousins. Absolutely true.

Like bar none.

Everybody thinks I'm crazy. DeMarcus Cousins still to this day.

Everybody thinks I'm crazy. I think the Nets could use him.

The Brooklyn Nets. I agree. A lot of teams could.

Yeah, but I'm just talking about, I'm talking about, he could be the difference for a championship because he's not a jumper, we know that, but he can bang, he can move bodies. What are the Brooklyn Nets lacking?

Girth.

Yeah. That's what I think. But you know, hey, what you gonna do?

We had to adjust our game plan last year in the playoffs to guard him in the second unit with Denver.

Yeah.

And I think people don't, when you're still adjusting your defensive game plan for someone, Right. In a playoff series?

Yeah.

Not many people get, like, you don't make adjustments in playoffs for many people. For instance, I go back to the podcast after we lost game 1. We didn't make any adjustments. We didn't make any adjustments for Al Horford or even Marcus Smart. Those are like damn good basketball players. I'm not taking anything away from them.

Right.

But there are some things that you just have to be willing to live with in a basketball game. And so we adjusted for DeMarcus Cousins still.

Yeah.

Because he was hurting us that much. You can't tell me he don't belong on an NBA team.

There's no excuse. There's no excuse. I mean, we got, but it's also a lesson and I don't know the particulars and I'm not trying to pretend that I should, and I'm not even talking about him when I make this next statement. It's a lesson for any aspiring athlete or even a modern-day athlete that not just your skill matters.

Mm-hmm.

Attitude, relationships. Unfortunately, all of these things play a role. And a lot of times they don't tell us. But when we see it, we have an obligation to promote second chances. You know what I'm saying? Whatever you feel about DeMarcus, like I just told you, I have no relationship with him. I don't want this brother out there unemployed, not having an NBA job when he deserves it. I mean, what did he do that he doesn't deserve to be in the NBA? You know, I mean, I think about that because even though you find yourself at times looking at certain athletes and how they may act, you know, even, you know, me with Kyrie, with the whole, you know, Kyrie, man, I don't wish no harm on that brother. I'm proud that brother is spectacular. We may never speak again in life because our differences are between us.

Mm-hmm.

Nobody here, they'll never hear from me what to do. He knows what the hell happened. I know what happened. But the point is, what you gonna hear from me is, he's a superstar. This brother's spectacular. He's a champion. And guess what? As long as he show up to work, he deserves his money. 'Cause you walk through the turnstiles to see that brother play.

He's something special.

Absolutely.

Yes, he is. And I think we're seeing that. With the Nets season and their turnaround, by the way. With DeMarcus, do you, is there ever a chance to mend that moment in that locker room? With DeMarcus Cousins, that moment in that locker room?

Yes. Oh please, he's the one with the issue. I ain't got no issue with him. If DeMarcus Cousins came to me and said he needed me, what you need? What you need, bro? It's that simple to me. I'm not that guy. You understand what I'm saying? I really am not that guy. Life is too short. You know what I mean? You know, he ain't hurt my, he ain't hurt me, he ain't hurt my family.

He didn't do something, you know, he didn't do something unforgivable.

I'm cool. It's not a problem. And I don't have any issue with him. I don't know what his issue is with me and don't really care. But I can assure you, I have no issue with him. I've had, there's been a plethora of players throughout NBA history, Hall of Famers, had a problem and then come to me years later, yo, Stephen A, we cool, man. Mm-hmm. I was just— I just felt this way at this particular moment in time, but I'm all right. Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson, for years we had problems 'cause I didn't like the fact that Randy Ayers got fired the way that he did. I felt that cats like him just did the wrong things. But then it got too far. It's like you got people wondering whether or not we were gonna try to do something to each other and stuff like that. Whoa, whoa, whoa. But then I saw his son, and I saw his son at a game. Yeah. And I walked up to his son and I said to him, "I want you to know whatever beef your father and I had is my fault." I said, "At the end of the day, I'm the one sitting in this chair and I could have quelled all of that and I didn't. Regardless of what our differences, how valid they may have been, the bottom line is I'm older, I'm the professional journalist, I'm in this position. There's a level of maturity." Mm-hmm. I should have showed. And I want you to know that because I don't want you walking around thinking that, oh my goodness, you gotta watch every little thing you do because Stephen A. is here and he hates your dad. No, I do not hate your dad. I said I was angry about something, he was angry about something, but the second I see him, I'll apologize to his face. Don't you ever worry about nothing like that with me. And I told— I walked up to his son in Houston. And voluntarily, he had a game in Houston and I voluntarily told him that because I just felt bad. Like, damn, this is his son and Lord knows what he's thinking because me and his father's beefing. Let me put an end to that right now and assure him you don't ever have anything, you nor your dad, don't ever. I respect your father who was a hell of a player. I just didn't like something that happened in Philadelphia. But the bottom line is I could have squashed all of that. And my immaturity contributed to how it regressed. I have to own that. That's being a human being, man. And it's the right thing to do. And I'm certainly not right all the time, but when I am wrong, I will not hesitate to apologize and to try and make amends.

I will not hesitate.

I respect that.

I respect that. That's incredible. That's something, that's something honestly I've been learning over the last few years of my life. My wife actually been helping me a lot with that. It's just seeing like, When you wrong, it's okay to say sorry. I think we all grow up in these environments where it's like, nah, like for instance, when I was speaking with Skip, like I gotta stand on everything that I do and say, and like I gotta stand my ground. And like you're made up of that. And it takes for us some, a lot of us to go through life and realize like, nah, it's okay to apologize. Like actually being a bigger man by apologizing.

But also remember you never lose when you do that because either you're right Or you learn and you're edified because you learned about what you were wrong about. And so when you have that kind of attitude, it's never the case. I've known you for years. One of the reasons you were one of my favorite people, like, I mean, to me, I go back ways. Look, man, I was tight with Oakley. I was tight with Derrick Coleman. I was tight with Rod Strickland and people like that, you know? And these were cats who could play, but in the same breath, would be quick to slap somebody upside their damn head. They didn't like too many people, but they loved me and I loved them because they were real brothers. And I said something or whatever, and you rolled right up on me in the locker room, "Come on, Stephen. Come on, Stephen A. I mean, come on now." And you quoted me and I was like, damn. I said, "All right, bro. My bad, my bad." You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And I was like, yeah, it's that simple to me. If I did something wrong, Tell me what I did wrong. If I think you're wrong, I'm gonna say so. But if I know you right, and by the way, if I apologize, I'm not gonna say something publicly and apologize privately. If I did it publicly, I'm gonna apologize publicly.

Mm-hmm.

And you'd be surprised how many people, they're like, what the hell you apologize for? Why you let folks know? Because you let folks know about something that was wrong. So why wouldn't you correct it? Why wouldn't you correct it? And I think that— I think it's incredibly important, particularly in this day and age, because even with social media and the reach that y'all have and stuff like that, the bottom line is you got a lot of cats that feel done wrong, but they make the mistake of not having anybody to talk to. Like, when I think about— when I think about Russell Westbrook, for example, man, you see the stuff that Russell— Absolutely. Westbrook is doing in the community. He probably own biz. I mean, this dude, he's a special dude, man. But he walks around with this big attitude a lot of times and he looks at media and he doesn't— I believe that a mistake that somebody like him makes is what LeBron doesn't do. Russ walks around like a lot of people are the enemy, not giving enough people a chance to see his greatness. And his contribution to our community because he's from a different cloth, y'all. He cares about our community.

Yes, he does.

It's about us. And so he does stuff for us and he thinks along those lines and is unapologetic about it. But so many people don't know. Whereas with LeBron, LeBron, through the brilliance of Maverick and Rich and everybody else, people have no choice but to learn about the greatness of LeBron James on so many levels. And that's the difference.

I think that's incredible. And definitely, obviously, you know, I'm very fond of both of those guys and everything that they've done.

So am I. So am I. Even though I still stand by the fact that, damn it, listen, Russell Westbrook's a future Hall of Famer, phenomenal player. I just wish he had worked on his jump shot. Period. That's all. That's all. Nothing else.

Nothing else. He's shooting it better this year.

That's right. You listen, I think, I swear if I get, you know what? Russell Westbrook might be my leading candidate for Sixth Man of the Year.

I ain't mad at that at all.

Listen, man, you see this dude come off the bench and do what he does and the role that he has accepted. We talked about his ego, we talked about his stubbornness. We lamented all of these things. We never dreamed he would do this. And look what he's doing. It's phenomenal. And LeBron just speaks for himself. LeBron just speaks for himself.

Yeah.

I'm done. LeBron is so great. I ain't giving him no edge over Jordan now. I ain't doing that.

I am, for sure.

I'm not doing it. But LeBron is so great, Draymond Green. I almost think it's damn blasphemy to be talking about him during the regular season. He's like earned the right to have a discussion about him in April. Because so many things he's done from October to April. It's just the truth. It's just the truth. And Steph is on that level too.

Steph Curry. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. Steph has definitely reached that level. I think it's absolutely amazing. This is a great segue. Before we get outta here, I just wanna ask you a few basketball questions. So obviously, like I said, everybody will hear this next week, but today, The first returns for the All-Star ballot voting came out and Jason Tatum is not starting. What do you make of Jason Tatum not start— being a starter initially as an All-Star?

That's insane.

That's insane. Who would you remove out of the 3 guys that's in front of him?

Who do we have? We've got Giannis, we've got Embiid.

Joel and KD.

And KD. I would— are you ready for this?

I'm ready for this. I think I need to hear this one.

I would have to remove KD. And it's not because— and let me— and that's saying a lot for me, 'cause I think when KD's healthy, he's the best on the planet. And I think he's a leading candidate for MVP. Here's why I would remove him. I can't remove Joel and B, 'cause they ain't a center on the planet, as far as I'm concerned, better than him. Not particularly in the Eastern Conference. I can't remove Giannis because that's your power forward, who, by the way, is a champion and a 2-time Defensive Player of the Year and is balling out, averaging 47 and 17 over the last 6 to 3 to 6 games or something, right? I can't do that. Here's where I can pick Tatum over KD. Similar stats, but a better record. And by the way, the last time we saw y'all two against each other, Tatum swept you. That's why. That's why.

I wouldn't want— But the whole Kyrie thing played into that, or whatever.

I know, I know, I understand it. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, well, listen, what have I said? When you and I have had conversations, what have I said to you, Dre? I said, excuse me, I ain't expecting no damn points from you. It's good when you give me points. I'm looking at the rebounds and assists. I'm looking at your defensive prowess. That's a fact. But more importantly, I'm looking at your leadership. Mm-hmm. In other words, when the leadership ain't there, when things run awry, I'm looking at you because you're that guy that galvanizes them. You're the guy that allows Steph to be Steph, 'cause Steph don't have to be preoccupied with a bunch of stuff, and Klay don't have to be preoccupied with a bunch of stuff. That's what you do, right? So if you're not doing that, then that's problematic. When I look at the Brooklyn Nets, I love KD. I love him as a player and a person. I love KD and I love Mama Durant as well. You got swept and the distractions that no longer exist for now, right now, give them credit where credit is due. But the distractions and everything else, all of that happened on your watch.

Yeah.

So I gotta hold you accountable for that. If I gotta pick between you and Tatum right now, But here's the question though.

Here's the question. And Kevin has said this himself. Everyone expect Kevin to be this big leader in the sense of like, if I remember correctly, I don't wanna misquote him, but I think he said in Rolling Stone, I'm not good at saying, hey everybody, come on, follow me. That's never been who I am in my life. So why? Does that have to be so synonymous with who he is as a basketball player? Because everybody's just not a natural born leader. And again, I'm not taking no shot at K, but he himself has said, that's not kind of my strong suit. Why is his basketball game judged based off of that? And he himself has said it's not like, I'm not strong there.

Well, first of all, I'm gonna challenge you on that because I don't, you're not accurate because— he's a league MVP.

And he is a league MVP.

He's a league MVP and a two-time champion. So clearly—

And a Finals MVP twice.

And a Finals MVP twice. And well-deserved. And y'all would have three-peated. You'd have swept Toronto. Don't get me started with that. You'd have took them out, okay? Because of KD, all right? With the rest of the crew. What I am saying is, where I'm challenging you is that he wasn't the lead it in. Nobody blamed him for it. We still praised him. We still recognize the greatness. We're recognizing the greatness now. But you asked why Tatum instead of him. That's entirely different than not appreciating the greatness of KD. We know he's great. We know he's phenomenal. We know he's unmatchable. You can't guard him. The brother is on another level, and he's a league MVP candidate. But right now, halfway through this season, the consistent team has been the Brooklyn Nets. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the Boston Celtics. Mm-hmm. And this is in spite of their drama.

He made you dope and all of that. Absolutely.

Absolutely. So the point is, is that all of that comes into play. And if you have to choose between KD and Tatum for the starter's nod, that's where that would come from. That's not throwing shade on KD. It's simply pointing out that's what it is. And oh, by the way, I understand you might not be that dude. Fair enough. There's a lot I might not be. There's a lot that you might not be. But when it's costing us the chip, whatever our definition of the chip is—

Okay.

All of a sudden, you gotta modify. You can't be married to what you ain't and don't even try to be something more just because that's not you. You gotta try, you gotta keep pushing. And that's what I would challenge KD to do. And that's throwing no shade on them, 'cause I got mad love and respect for KD. You know that.

Absolutely. I, I respect that. And, and if I'm being honest, I'm, by the way, I'm not making an argument against JT because if I'm being honest with you, I think JT's probably top 2.

Yeah.

Maybe 3 in MVP voting. No lower than 3?

I had him number 1 until a week ago. I had him number 1.

Yeah. And like, he's definitely, so he's definitely should be a starter. I think with, and we'll see how it plays out. Like none of us know how it's gonna play out yet. We'll, I think we'll see that over the next few weeks of how it actually plays out. But I think that's a very interesting take on, 'cause no, especially after the first road return, KD come back the leader. I don't think anyone's gonna expect, or would've expected that you would've said KD would be the one to get subbed out.

Nobody would've because I believe when KD healthy, he's the best on the planet. But I'm talking about the this year and the conditions faced by both of them this year. Up until 2 weeks ago, 2, 3 weeks ago, the Nets were struggling to be a .500 team.

Yeah, that's a fact.

Jayson Tatum and Boston have been more consistent.

That's a fact.

Yeah.

I agree with that. Hey man, that's a tough one. So before we get outta here, couple more questions.

Yeah.

Number one is, all said and done, we 42, almost halfway through the season. Once we get to the end, who do you think ultimately, and now in answering this question, you have to take into account Still got half a season to go. You have to take into account injuries could possibly happen. Who's injury prone? Who hasn't been? You have to take all these things into account. Who do you think is going to walk with the MVP award at the end of the year when it's all said and done?

I wanna say Tatum, but I witnessed the drop off and I'm seeing the elevation of Giannis.

Mm.

I don't know how he's going to be stopped. Giannis is a special breed, man. And I'm not talking about his ability. He wants it. He wants it all. He wants it all.

He will.

He wants it all. He's not playing. The nights off that KD and JT may attention, may unintentionally or occasionally take, even a Joel Embiid, That ain't Giannis. Giannis might have a bad shooting night. That's his night off. But the energy, the tenacity, the want it factor, that's with him. And Middleton's questionable health puts Giannis in a position where Giannis is like, give me the ball, man. I gotta take over. 'Cause Middleton's missing one game. Drew Holliday's missing another. Man, he, he's on the court last night with the Grayson Allens of the world and Carters of the world and people in West Matthews, where people like— and he is destroying people.

There he is.

That is going to be hard to ignore. I would tell you Tatum still got a shot, but Tatum has to return to being what he was a couple of weeks ago, and there can be no drop-off. Otherwise Giannis is gonna get the 9.

And taking it to the end of the year, who do you got in the finals?

The start of the season, I had y'all, the Golden State Warriors versus the Brooklyn Nets.

Okay.

My prediction, I don't think is looking that bad right now. See, I'm not worried about y'all the way everybody else is. I'm saying my attitude is if you can win at home, you'll figure out how to win on the road. That damn, that damn Klay Thompson. And I say that damn Klay Thompson, 'cause you know I love me some Klay Thompson. I think Klay Thompson, one of the top 5 shooters in the history of basketball. And this brother, you know, all of these— not over the last 3 games, averaging over 25. He looks like the Klay I know and love. I don't know what the hell was going on with him the previous 17 to 18 games. I'm like, what the hell is up? You know, Jordan Poole, I believe in him. I expected more from Wiseman. I expected more from Kuminga and Moody. The fact that those are question marks I think the Memphis Grizzlies deserve the nod over y'all right now. And I'm not sleeping on the Pelicans, but I say that with this caveat. If Klay Thompson and Steph Curry get going, I don't give a damn who goes up against y'all. Y'all taking them out. Y'all taking them out. And Boston is the most complete team. They're the better team. I think Brooklyn would beat Milwaukee. I don't know if they beat Boston. They gotta get a big body to deal with the likes of the Robert Williams of the world. They gotta get a big body. But KD, Kyrie, shoot, even Watanabe, Seth Curry, I mean, Patty Mills, these brothers are marksmen. And I'll go as far as to say this. I think y'all at y'all best as marksmen. I think the only team that would have a shot to beat y'all at your best is a Brooklyn Nets team at their best because they can shoot too. It will take that in order to knock y'all off. I would tell you Boston and Memphis deserve the nod today, but I'm holding on for dear life to my preseason prediction. UOL versus the Brooklyn Nets.

I think that's a strong preseason. You think Memphis is ready? You think Memphis is ready to take that jump to the NBA Finals?

Are you ready for this? I think Memphis is ready.

Absolutely.

And I think it's your fault.

Why is it my fault?

Because, you know, you whooping it up with the crowd in Memphis, you get them going. You understand what I'm saying? You got that going. You know, Ja's your boy, but you like talking to him. Y'all like talking back and forth, 'cause they like talking.

They like talking.

Absolutely. Throughout my life of covering sports, the one thing I've always paid attention to are those truly knocking at the door. Memphis is knocking at the door. Now, I know there's a part of y'all that believe Ja getting hurt, it was, shoot, it was more difficult of an adjustment for y'all, 'cause y'all didn't know what they were gonna throw at you once Ja got hurt. Which is why they blew y'all out in Game 5 before y'all came and won Game 6 and ended the series. But Jah is something to behold. And by the way, I want to throw him in the MVP conversation as well because he deserves to be in there. And I'm here to tell you something right now. This brother, Jah Morant, if he's healthy and he's going against y'all and they got home court advantage and you got a Game 7 in Memphis, Draymond Green, that's a tall cat. That's a tall task.

And I— Good task for them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree. But I'm just saying, I'm not sleeping on them, bro. I'm not sleeping on them. They are Memphis and they can shoot. They've got athletes. They ain't scared. They aggressive. They go for it. They go for it. See, New Orleans to me is the new Memphis. Memphis is knocking at the door. They tipping at y'all heels.

So I'll tell you how I see that because I think Memphis is knocking at the door as well. And I think, I think they are to be reckoned with. Like I don't look at them and be like, that's nothing. Like, no, we gotta deal with them. I know that we will deal with them, but we have to deal with them. But the thing that, that Memphis, the problem that they're gonna have, and I'm gonna say this because it's my little brother and I say it to him every time I see him.

Right.

Jaren gotta stop fouling. They can't, they cannot compete in a playoff series.

That's fair.

Especially with us.

That's fair.

If Jaren does not stop fouling.

That's fair.

Jaren can't end up in foul trouble.

That's fair.

5 of the 6 games in the series.

You need him on the court. You need him on the court.

He has to be on the floor because there was gonna be times Steven Adams, who, who's incredible, plays his role better than anybody in the NBA.

Without question.

There's going to be times just in this NBA where you have to take Steven Adams off the floor. Like, it's just going to happen. The matchups, Steph Curry get going on the screen and roll, and you like, ah, we gotta get Big Stevo out, right? The person who may be able to defend that is Jaren. But if he's always in foul trouble, number one, you can't play aggressive.

Right.

And number two, You can't play at all. You're on the bench because you're always in foul trouble. So I think the key to them really being able to compete at that level is, it's actually not Ja. Like we know who Ja is, we know what Ja gonna do. And like you said, quite frankly, if we had that team figured out last series, if Ja didn't get hurt, I think we beat them in, I know we beat them in 5 'cause they was figured out, no problem.

And—

But the key is not Ja. Ja is Ja. Ja's, that's like saying the key to the Warriors winning is Steph Curry. No, Steph Curry's not the key. We know what we're going to get from Steph Curry. Now, Steph Curry has to be Steph Curry and Ja Morant has to be Ja Morant.

Right.

But the key to making it all happen and like to giving them a legitimate chance to compete is Jaren Jackson. If Jaren can stop fouling, then they can really contend. But if Jaren can't stop fouling, Jaren's your second best player on that team. If your second best player can't stay on the floor, they're not gonna be able to win. So that's my challenge to them. That's my challenge to my little bro, my Spartan dog, Jaren. He has to stop fouling.

No disagreement.

If they're ever gonna have a chance to win.

No disagreement. I have no disagreement with that, but I think he will.

I don't know. Jaren, you also gonna hear this. I caused us a championship with the Golden State Warriors. I stand on that. I'm gonna live with that for the rest of my life. Jaren cost us a national championship at Michigan State 'cause he couldn't stay outta foul trouble. You can't keep having the same problems. 6 years later, you a pro on the verge of being an all-star when healthy. You can't keep falling. So that's just my challenge to Jaren. And I hope to see that from him. 'Cause like I said, I love that competition. Like see young guys knocking at the door, let's get it. So I love that. But man, I've held you for an hour and 15 minutes. I know you the busiest man in showbiz.

Last.

My last question before we get outta here. What is some advice that you would give to your younger self about this business or in this business or just about life and your career?

Appreciate what you accomplish along the way because there's always going to come a point in time when you have an opportunity to reflect on what you've accomplished. And you're gonna want others to have the same reflection that you have. But because you waited so long to truly appreciate it just internally in the privacy of your own mind and thoughts and to really lavish in it, it passes you by. And then you feel like there's this itch that you constantly have to scratch because when it was scratched, you didn't appreciate it. Mm-hmm. You ignored it. You got to make sure you don't do that. You got to make sure that you understand tomorrow isn't guaranteed to any of us. We just learned, thank God, that Hamlin survived. But my God, we were scared that he wouldn't. And he was 24 years old. The one thing we seem to forget or take for granted as human beings is that, you know, God doesn't promise us tomorrow. Never did. None of us. Mm-hmm. And we walk around like tomorrow's guaranteed. We gotta get beyond that. Because when you do, then you'll appreciate the todays more. And if you appreciate the todays more, then you'll appreciate everybody that you've been around today. And you'll celebrate them more than you'll do anything else. The truly, truly happy people in the world— take for example Steph Curry. Steph Curry. Look at his wife, look at his family, look at the stuff that he chooses to do and doesn't do. You never look at Steph Curry and see a guy that you think is miserable, ever.

Facts.

Facts. Ever. I've never seen it because he's lived his life in a way that does it for him and the people around him. And so by virtue of the people being around him seeing all of that, They're usually happy because they're with him. That's the kind of effect that he has. And I think that when you look at guys, the great guys like LeBron and so many others that we see in this game and throughout the world of professional sports, look at their family and loved ones. Look at what they surround themselves with. Look at the support base that they have. They're happy. They're good for the most part. Yeah. Nobody's perfect, nobody's flawless. Everybody has bad moments, but for the most part, they're living a good life. It ain't because of riches and fame and wealth and money and success. It's because they surrounded themselves with the right people and they know how to enjoy everything they have. And that's the key.

That's a fact, man. I appreciate that. I think that's one thing we all can learn from. I think that's one thing we all have to take into consideration. You know, you get in these moments sometimes and you forget to live in them. You know, it's one, like I always, when I go to concerts, one thing I hate to see is somebody who's recording the concert the whole time on their phone.

Yeah.

And they're looking at the concert through their phone and it's like, hey, you're actually missing the moment.

That's right.

You know, you missing, like you gonna go back and be able to watch all this on your phone and realize I didn't even get a chance to watch this in person. Because I was so busy trying to show everybody else where I was and what I was doing as opposed to being in that moment. So I think that's something we all can learn from. Stephen A., my brother, I can't thank you enough for your time.

Thank you, man.

But like I said at the top of the show, your mentorship, your brotherhood, and what you've given to sports as a whole, not basketball, just sports and entertainment as a whole, Future Hall of Famer, if not in Hall of Fames already. The GOAT, like I said, my brother, I can't thank you enough. I appreciate you, bro. Much love.

Appreciate you, always. Much love to you, man. Keep up the great work, man. Go there and handle your business and get another championship for the Warriors. You know I'm always here for you, whatever you need, man. Thanks so much.

I appreciate you. Yes, sir, we gonna do that. Much love, bro.

All right.

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to The Volume's YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward.