Taye Diggs & Draymond Green on 'Fab Five' Doc, All American, Broadway, & Hollywood’s Jalen Brunson

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. We are here today at Odyssey Soundstage. Have the honor and pleasure of doing an in-person interview with someone who I'm a huge fan of. Now, as you all know, this show have pretty much been strictly basketball. And you know, I want to start incorporating just more culture into it, more entertainment, entertainers, actors, actresses, artists, and kind of show some of the parallels in between our lives, how a lot of things correlate, a lot of the things that we go through, how, you know, they're very similar to each other. So our guest today is an actor, an incredible actor, one who I've been watching literally Feels like my entire life. Producer, author whose career has spanned Broadway, film, and television for nearly 3 decades. To put that into perspective, when I say my entire life, I'm 36 years old. You know him from "Rent," "The Best Man," "The Wood," "Brown Sugar," "Private Practice," "All American," and countless other projects. He's built one of the most versatile careers in entertainment. And I'm so excited to be joined by the one and only Taye Diggs. Welcome to the Draymond Green Show, my brother.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. It's always awkward. It's always awkward to hear some of the things that you've done. And when I'm watching podcasts, I always get anxiety for the person that's being introduced. And yeah, it's interesting.

It is interesting.

Yeah.

I think, and I wanna ask you this because for us, you know, I've currently gotten into the film space, production, doing things in front of the camera.

Okay.

And just yesterday we wrapped our first project that under our production company that we saw from start.—

to finish. Congratulations.

Thank you. And I said all that to say yesterday I got the feeling of like, and I haven't seen it all, like it hasn't been released yet or anything. But yesterday I got the feeling of seeing that thing from start to finish. And you know, from 2 and a half years ago, the initial idea.

Right.

To, from an idea to pitch meetings.

Yeah.

To getting a budget.

Right.

And a director and the entire thing and seeing it from start to finish.

True.

And it wrapped yesterday. And I said all of that to say, it's like your season. It's like your championship.

100%.

You know? And so I, how I can correlate that with you is, I hate talking about my career because I'm still in it. I'm still doing it, you know? And so, you know, someone wants to say, oh man, the championship.

I never thought about it like that.

You know, let's talk about the championship.

You're still in it.

Ah. You know, and it's like, yeah, we can talk about the championship, but I don't really want to talk about the championship unless I'm on a podcast.

Right, right.

Which is, Is it like that for you when you're talking about the different films because you're still in it? Oh, oh, okay. Or can you remove yourself from them?

So interesting. So I feel like the embarrassment, because I mean, we all want people to like us, right? For the most part. And I love hearing that somebody else said something positive about me. But if I'm in the moment, like you in front of me, Saying all the things I've done, that, for whatever, makes me feel uncomfortable. And I think it might have something to do with the fact that you said I'm still in it.

Yeah.

When it comes to compliments. My teeth came out. But when it comes to discussing the craft or why, I have no issue with that. That can be fun, whether it's here or, you know, you know, hanging out with friends or even fans sometimes. If the questions are kind of intelligent enough. So yeah, it's a testament to me having done it for so long and still being able to have fun.

Yeah.

It's fun to talk about it. It's fun to talk about it. And I'm always, learning, can I cuss?

Of course.

I'm always learning new shit and being, you know, shoved into new experiences. And I'm at an age where I can really appreciate that. And it's great to kind of talk it out.

So yeah. Absolutely. Born in Jersey, growing up in New York area, Rochester and Syracuse, getting your start on Broadway.

Right, right.

The New York Knicks just won a championship. Are you a Knicks fan?

I mean, no, but I'm a New Yorker.

Yes.

So I will be for this. Like, I was so more happy for just the people that I know who are Knicks fans. My son's coach, James, he's like a New Yorker through and through. And I can't, I'm sure he was just in a puddle of tears just 'cause it was like a miracle.

Yes, absolutely.

And you know what I mean? And that's like, I'm not a sports head in any way. My kid plays and anything I know, I learned from him. My manager, you know, used to play in the NFL. But I know enough to know that that's one of the things I love about sports is that you have, at certain points you have no idea what's gonna happen. And that kind of evens the playing field. And I think that that was a great moment and like proof that, you know, how amazing sports can be.

Absolutely. I mean, it just like, it ignited that entire city.

Man.

Like, and every Knick fan around the world.

I'm saying, that's crazy. It was an energy thing, you know what I mean? You, as an athlete, I know you put in the hours and when no one else is practicing, you gotta be practicing. But at some point, —there is an energy there, right?

Oh my God. The energy is so important. By the way, on game days and in the playoffs.

Right, right.

In the playoffs, I almost, I shut myself down to just about everyone. And only the people I know gonna be around me that I know they ain't gonna mess up my energy. Because I don't have, during the playoffs for these 2 months, I don't have any energy to give to anything that does not my energy. And with energy at times, look, you take on other people energy.

Sure.

You know? And so—

Yeah, exactly.

Like, you know, and so for me, when you talk about energy and you talking about the Knicks, like I've been fortunate enough to win 4 championships. And every now and then you find, like you strike lightning in the bottle.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's this magic and you know when it's there. Okay. You know, and you could see these Knicks throughout this series and all of a sudden they struck lightning.

Yep.

And there was like, you look at the 29-point comeback, like, and then when you watch that, you like, yo, that lightning in the bottle, like it's destiny.

I think so.

It's destiny. I think so. And so just, you know, I was fortunate enough to be able to do the NBA Finals for Inside the NBA in New York.

Yeah.

And just seeing the energy in that city, like how thrilled people were.

Yeah, it's real.

Now seeing the parade and like, it's honestly a joy to watch.

That's great. And you can, you're able to remove yourself. Like how long does it take before you're like, That's not us. I'm pissed that we did whatever we did. We're not in it. But you know, you can set that aside and you can actually be happy. How long, does it ever go away or can you completely kind of remove yourself and, or is it a little bit of an act?

I'll tell you what's a little bit of an act. The act is when you put on an act is when you don't wanna see people do what, like kind of wipe out your stuff. For instance, right? Like you're gonna put on an act and be like, ah, you know, I don't really care if OKC win again or not.

Right, right, right.

Deep down inside.

Right.

You don't wanna see another team go back to back. Like we did that, you know? And so we were the last team to do that, right? Like I want, you wanna hold on to some of that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So some of that, becomes like the act in it.

Right.

However, I think for me personally, when you initially lose and you're done, you're feeling that, right? Like just the competitive fire in you.

Sure.

It's like, goddamn it, we're done.

Right.

For me personally, and it could be different for me just because of the trajectory of my career, right? Like I don't, I'm very, I'm so fortunate and blessed that I don't have to, spend every playoff season with the pressure or feeling of I have to get a championship.

Okay.

Because I've experienced it. You know, I've done it 4 times.

Sure.

So I don't deal with the pressure that most athletes that hasn't won one deal with when it comes playoff time, which is like, I need to win. I need to experience that. I need to feel it. Because of that, I think is why I'm able to separate and be like, all right, like it's cool.

I got mine, man.

I got mine. You're right. Because I'm gonna tell you this, when winning the first one, it's like this feeling, you thought you wanted to win.

Right.

And you thought you knew what it feel like. Right.

Right.

You thought you knew like the triumph and the joy and like what it feel like. Until you feel it and it's like, holy shit, it actually surpassed every wild dream that I ever thought winning this championship would make me feel like.

Huh.

It completely surpasses that. And so with that, and then like I said, being fortunate enough to win a second and a third and a fourth. And even when I watch today.

Yeah.

And it's not my teammates, —but I, and winning the second and third and the fourth, you get the most joy then out of watching the guys who's now doing it for their first time.

Really?

Because it take you back.

Ah, okay. All right. To your first time. Sure, sure.

Right? And so when you hear, when you see them, you're like, oh man.

Oh man, yeah.

I know how you feel.

He's right.

You know, like, oh my God. Like I know that feeling. I love that feeling for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, Like literally we win our second or third or fourth and I literally stand off to the side.

Yeah.

And watch our guys who's winning it for the first time and just watch their emotions. And it's just like, that's so fucking amazing.

That's great.

And so I can separate.

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Pretty quickly of like, and even like being an active player, having an opportunity to do the NBA Finals, right? I can separate that.

Right, right, right.

That's a job for me.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

And this is a job for me.

Right, right.

I'm a little outta my mind when I'm on the basketball court.

Right.

That's it.

Right.

Once I get off the court, I'm a lot more sane.

Okay.

And so I'm that person when I'm not.

I see, I see.

And I can accept it.

Sure, sure.

And so that part of it.

Oh, that's interesting. So it actually brings you together as opposed to separates you when you can, look at somebody winning and remember what it was like. That's something you have in common.

100%.

I see that.

100%. Like watching, I was watching Jalen Brunson the other day. Right after the game. By the way, I watch interviews. I love watching interviews. After post-game interviews, you just learn so much. So I'm watching Jalen Brunson and Lisa Saltzer, she said, "Man, you got the championship. Put it into words for me." And he said, My first thought when she said it was he ain't got no words? He started trying to— I don't know. And I'm like yeah exactly! So when I talk about that for— I knew right away like he's not bout to... He don't have words for you. He don't have a clue of what he's feeling. You know? And so just from that perspective it's always fun to see the next guys do it.

Yes. And then from like why 'cause I remember that moment. And you would think that somebody, people out there would be like, "Oh no, what a terrible interview. He didn't have anything to say." But as an actor, I'm more, and I'm sure other people can agree, it's more entertaining and it's more kind of connected to realness when you see somebody be 100% real as opposed to somebody, "You know, we did our thing. Oh, you know, everybody wanna do the right thing. We, you know, we just—" "Uh, we hit the spots, we need the spot." You know, sometimes all that stuff that is rehearsed, it sounds cool and it may feel cool to the player at the moment. But for us, it's like everybody, that's what everybody always says.

Yep.

And it's not, it's fine, but I'm not, I remember when I was watching him, I'd never seen anybody have that reaction. And I remember as soon as you said that, it made me feel something. And in acting, that's what you're aiming for. It doesn't matter, like a lesson you can tell like students, it doesn't matter what you say or if you forget your words or if it's real, people can connect to that. And that, and that, that was a, that in itself was a lesson for me. Just watching him, I was like, wow, he's not saying, he's having difficulty. And it wasn't like I felt sorry for him. I was just like intrigued. What? Because that was such a real moment.

Mm-hmm.

So I was, I'm learning, I'm learning sports is teaching me as well. You know what I mean? That's crazy.

That's amazing.

That was a great interview.

Absolutely.

That was a great interview.

1000%. I hate to say this.

Oh boy.

The Five Five. Honestly, one of the best sports documentaries I've ever seen. I went to Michigan State.

Okay.

So I don't like, I don't like that other place. But I learned that, or, and obviously heard you narrated the story. What was that experience like? How did that come about of you getting involved with that project?

If I'm being honest, when it was just a gig at that time, I didn't really start messing with basketball until my 40s. Just playing strictly for exercise. I was awful. So I got like a coach and just, what was it? I started playing 'cause there was a celebrity game.

Okay.

And I'm athletic, but I'm not an athlete. Like my son is an athlete.

Yeah.

Y'all are athletes. I could jump high, I could run fast, I could catch a ball. But basketball, you need to, you know.

Mm-hmm.

So I went to this, celebrity game, and I forget who it was, but they were like, "Ooh, Tay, you suck." Like, right in my face. They were like, "You can act. It's all right. You got acting. You can't do everything." But that got under my skin. So the day after, the day after that game, I took my ass home, got a coach, and just started. And you know, I got my game up to somewhere I could be proud of. But when I did that gig, it was just a gig.

Mm-hmm.

And I was learning. I had no idea. I went to Syracuse. I was into theater. You know, I hardly went to any games. So I didn't come into the game until much later in life. But it wasn't until afterwards, after I did the gig and started getting feedback, you know, how important that was. And then I was grateful that I did it, but pissed that I didn't know more while I was doing it, I would've appreciated it more. Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely.

It's like talking about a historic situation that you didn't even know existed. It's like if I was from another planet and was talking about slavery or, you know, Frederick Douglass or Martin Luther King, I had no idea who these people were, but I was just, "Oh, interesting, this person." You know, without this person, Black people, I didn't really know except what I was reading. I wasn't connected to it. Now after the feedback and now with my son and being more into Hoops, I'm like, "Oh man, I wish I had known while I was delivering it." But luckily people still related to it. You know what I mean? And that's the important thing.

So that was strictly just off the art?

Totally. It was a gig. Literally a gig.

Wow.

Yeah. I had no idea that people cared so much. I had no— and then it's, ah, then I didn't even know. Then years later I watched the actual— what did I see? Oh, I watched it. Didn't know it was me. And was like, it was that bad. I didn't know it was me. I didn't even recognize my voice. 'Cause it had been so long ago when I saw it. It was on a repeat or something. And I was intrigued, you know, I had met a bunch of the players and it wasn't until afterwards somebody else had to tell me. Isn't that a trip?

That is crazy.

I'm not proud of that part. But—

I'm actually proud of it because that means you have no fucking connection to Michigan and that makes me so happy.

No, I dated a girl from there. Yeah, but that was it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm happy you're not. I thought she was probably like, "Yeah, man, I was a Fab Five fan." Not at all. Fucking black socks. Not at all. Long shorts. That's great.

Not at all. I mean, I wore all that stuff just 'cause it became trendy.

Yeah.

But it had nothing to do with them. You know what I mean?

Interestingly enough, I love black socks. I, unless it's very outfit specific, I don't wear white socks often. However, at Michigan State, Coach Izzo came up like as a head coach, assistant coach, like right around that time. Yeah, yeah. And there's this crazy beef between him and Michigan and Chris, one of the guys, I think it was Jalen Rose, like act like he shit on the Spartan. So Coach Izzo hates, we're not allowed to wear black socks in college, like at Michigan State.

Like that?

We can't wear black socks. You come into practice, a game, any, there aren't black, they don't exist.

Really?

Because of the Fab Five.

Wow.

They don't, do not exist.

And I didn't know that's where it came from. I had no idea.

They were the first team.

Wow.

Everybody doing white socks. They were the first team that came out with the black socks. Black and white. I'm drawing a blank on the Nikes right now. The Force. Yeah. Hey, black socks, we can't wear 'em.

Geez, I had no idea. Y'all are serious.

Very. I hated that.

Yeah.

Because I love black socks.

Yeah. Are they allowed? They're allowed to do that?

By the way, don't come just moseying in his office either on a random day with some shorts on, with black socks on either. It does not work. It just doesn't work. So interestingly enough.

That's funny. I'm learning.

Yeah.

Right?

Who would you say? So Jalen Brunson, second round pick, right? Overlooked guy, small, always won though, right? So high school. —won.

Right. Won. Yeah.

AAU, kid won. If he went to an All-Star Game, the kid won. Goes to Villanova, wins 2 championships, second round pick still. Gets to the NBA, goes to Dallas. They don't even sign him. The Knicks steal him and he becomes the king of New York. Who's that in Hollywood that kind of, you could see it like, we've seen you win over and over and over again and yet, You don't get to do, you don't, and then finally you just go fucking put this role out and you take it and you're the king of New York. Who is that in Hollywood?

You know, it's tough because the general public doesn't know. They don't know the valleys.

Yes.

If somebody knows who you are, you've already won. Do you know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

But because I know, I'm gonna use Will Smith because I know his history, it was him. He started out, people thought he was kind of corny and, but at the beginning of rap, when he did come up with the rap, people thought it was too clean. And then he killed the game, like sold all these, then lost all his money.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I don't know, I've read his book, "Family Issues." and then decided almost on a whim to do this TV show. Nobody had done a TV show like that with Fresh Prince. He was so bad. You could see him and he's like on camera, you can see him mouthing the other people's lines. But he willed himself. That show broke records.

Mm-hmm.

And then he literally decided, I'm gonna be the biggest, movie star in the world. For him to say that at that point in his career was beyond delusional. And slowly but surely he did it. So to me, that's like proof that when you got drive, right? I don't know, magic, energy, whatever it is. But he is that cat. He is that cat to me. Yeah. That's amazing.

Yeah. That's incredible. That's such a good comparison. It's a trip, right? The magnitude of Jalen Brunson and who he is and who he's just become and Will Smith and wow.

I love those stories, man. I love those stories. And you know, I got a little 16-year-old and he's cocky as fuck. And you know how I was raised, it's hard to, he's at an age where you can't really tell them shit. You know what I mean? So I don't wanna, but I realize at this age, he's becoming a man and I wanna let him, I wanna let him feel like he's a man. You know, I don't wanna drag him down. I don't wanna tell him he ain't shit and wait until whatever. So I can't wait until he's old enough to kind of realize how cool it is to come from behind. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

And to not be the cool dude and to not always have the right things to say and to be humble. Humility today with kids, It's like not cool to be humble. You know what I mean? And I love that he is a proof that, you know, you can still be so good, so good and humble. You know what I mean? Yeah, he's a trip.

I got a lot of questions about your career.

Okay.

But I wanna ask you a couple questions about fatherhood before we get into that. Okay. Your son, 16 years old. You're not married currently.

No.

Correct? So does he live with you? You co-parent? Like how does that whole thing?

We co-parent. Luckily with me and his mother Adina, we love him so much. And then he has a stepfather. My ex-wife remarried Jerry. We call him Jerry. We are lucky enough to just have a great relationship because we love Walker so much. You know, when we first split over 10 years ago, you know, at first it's a little dicey.

Mm-hmm.

'Cause it's tough not to take things personally. But it didn't take us long at all to realize, all right, we both love this human being so much. We just want what's best for him. And there's no way we can give him what's best if we are still holding onto our own personal shit. And we didn't want him to take on our stuff. You know what I mean? So that was pretty easy. That was pretty easy. And she's just, she's the engine behind who he is just because without her, the whole store shuts down. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

I get to just play ping pong with him and watch movies, but she's, She's got the schedule, you know what I mean? She finds, you know, the tutors and, you know, whatever school she suggests, I trust her. You know what I mean? So I owe a lot of who Walker is to her, I have to say.

Your son having a stepfather, how was it adjusting to that initially? Like, you know, we have a son. By the way, I have a son. Yes. So my wife, we have 5 children.

Oh wow. Okay. I come from 5.

Okay.

Yep.

My wife, we share a daughter that was hers from a previous relationship. We share a son that's mine from a previous relationship.

Okay.

Then we have 2 girls that we both share.

Yes.

And a son, young, 6 months, that we both share.

That's like the Brady Bunch, isn't it?

Absolutely.

Is it literally the Brady Bunch? They got 5 kids?

It is absolutely the Brady Bunch.

Yes. Okay.

Now me and his mom hasn't been together now for, he's 9.

Yeah.

About 9 years.

Okay.

You know, and you know, he has a stepfather.

Right.

Like how was it adjusting to that?

Ooh.

Because as a man, right?

Sure.

You want—

Of course.

You want your son in your image, right? Like you want, your son to be everything that you've gone through. Like, I wanna teach you that so you don't have to go through that.

Sure.

And then another man comes along.

Sure.

That's gonna play a role in his life.

Yes.

How was it navigating that for you?

It was awful at first. It's like the worst. If you get caught, naturally, if you get caught in your ego, it's the absolute worst. Worst thing that you think could ever happen to you. You are off something that is so amazing to you. Something, it was my first child, so I'd never experienced that type of love, the excitement of, you know, what laid ahead. All of that, if you let it, you almost have to, not almost, you have to give it over to someone and you have no control over it.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, this dude, I don't really know him. I hate him just because he's with, I don't know what happened between those two. So I didn't have something that he has, whatever. And he gets to, he didn't earn the right to be with my offspring. He was white. He's a white dude.

Mm-hmm.

So once, I started going down that rabbit hole, I had to just release it. Because if I thought about it too much, it would've like made me evil and resentful. And I get it. I get how people badmouth, you know, their exes or the— You have all of those feelings.

Mm-hmm.

You know, if you're a human being. But I knew where it could take me. So once I let go and then thought how lucky Walker was to have somebody who was into him, to have somebody who loved his mother, to have somebody who was cool to me, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

So once I started seeing him as almost like a tool in Walker's life, then it took a minute, but it definitely helped, you know, gradually be cool with him. And now I'm cooler with him than I am with his mom sometimes. 'Cause we're both dudes and we both know her. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

You know, let her do her thing. You know, we all as the men of the house, you know, can kind of be like, okay, we're all together. We get what's going on here. We all appreciate it. But you know, men are men and women are women.

For sure.

She's the mother. So of course, you know, what she says goes and we all, you know, kind of fall in line. But I'm really happy that I was able to do that. But I won't lie, it was not easy at all.

At all. That's an interesting journey, man. 'Cause you know, my son, like I said, we have pretty much been together better part of his whole life.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I actually found out my son had a stepdad like, uh—

Oh boy.

Okay. Okay. Randomly. Like, maybe not randomly, but it was just like, you know, you do exchanges at the airport.

Yeah.

In the summertime.

Yeah.

So we live here in the Bay Area and like he came to pick him up.

Okay. And nobody alerted you? Nobody?

Who's that?

Right, right. Ooh.

You know? And I'm like, all right. And he has an older sister of a child that she had from a previous relationship with me. And she was with him, right? So it's like, all right. The idea of like, oh, you'll send him with them.

Uh-huh. Them. Exactly.

Right? But I was just, I've never met this guy. I don't know his name. I didn't even know he exists except, I'm gonna die. You know, whatever I heard recently.

Right.

You know, and to his credit, real man. I was like, yeah, he can't go. Like, I'm not letting him go on a flight. But, you know, would love to talk to you, by the way.

Sure.

You know, like.

Sure, right.

To his credit, real man, he stayed.

Okay.

Stayed the night.

Okay.

We, Well, that time I'm lying.

Oh boy.

That time it was sprung up on me so crazy.

Yeah.

I never wanna see my son panic or let him see me panic.

Oh, okay.

So it sprung up on me so crazy.

Yeah.

And because his sister was there, she's 17 by the way.

Okay.

You know, so I'm like, DJ, you good? He like, I'm good. I'm like, all right, go ahead.

Okay.

The next pickup exchange, she then sends him alone. And I'm like, all right, like neither time did you alert me that this, but I just can't allow him to go alone.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and to his credit, he stayed the night.

Okay.

And we went, I took him home. We went and met, we talked for 3 and a half hours.

Oh wow.

It was great.

Wow, okay.

It was great. I also found out he's been in my son's life for 4 years. I'm like, well, that's fucking interesting. Okay.

Excuse me, anxiety.

Yeah. I mean, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so it has not been as, Great as your situation is. No, it is not. And when I hear someone say that, it's gotten better, hopefully. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I hear someone say that, it brings me joy.

Okay.

Because my wife, baby father and I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To your point.

Right.

We get her.

Okay.

We cool as hell.

Okay.

Like really good friends. Oh, cool, cool, cool. And you know, we've built a great relationship. We have a lot in common and it's great. And so it's always been interesting to see those two sides.

Sure.

The two dynamics.

Sure.

'Cause it's two completely different dynamics, but I can always have an appreciation for—

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Your dynamic. I feel you. Because it's not easy.

No.

But it is what's best.

Yes.

It's just what's needed.

Yes.

So I appreciate you sharing that.

Oh man. Sometimes, like, yeah, like I can, obviously I can talk about my experience 'cause I've been through it, but I can't, I can't even imagine. I don't, I, yeah, I can't even imagine like how you felt because at least, like for me it's like if shit isn't fair, if you're not playing, like we both at a certain point, we played by the rules.

Mm-hmm.

And when you play by the rules, it does make things smoother. You know what I mean? Like she told me, okay, this new, this cat is in my life now. I'm gonna move, okay, I'm gonna marry. So I knew all along.

Mm-hmm.

I didn't like it, but you know, she played by the rules. When people don't necessarily play by the rules, that's, I mean, I'm reading this book called "Letting Go," like spiritually, just how, you know, how much easier your life can be if you try to let go of the things that you consider important. Important, following the rules, being a good person, you know what I mean? Logic, all of those, I built my life, you know, on these solid rocks.

Mm-hmm.

But when they start, when the rocks start to move, since I've built my life on them, I don't know where to go.

Mm-hmm.

So reading this book, learning how to let go of these things that I thought were so important to me really helped me deal with those types of situations when you don't have control over something, but you have to behave in a certain way and your behavior is directly related to the most important thing in your life.

You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely. And when you don't have control and then you act in a way that isn't conducive, like it's really difficult to take that back.

Yes, it is.

So good for you. And I'm still learning on how to just be like, okay, well I have no control. Let me just put some positive energy into it and keep it moving.

Absolutely.

Oh boy, it's tough.

And then that's ultimately what I had to do. And by the way, on this 9-year journey, it's been hell. I'm not gonna sit here and act like I did everything fucking right. And I was like—

How could you? How could you?

Like, but—

If you're a human being.

You know, but he's a great kid.

Yeah.

Incredible kid. Almost too good of a kid sometimes.

All right, I feel you.

And so it's—

Yeah.

It works.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, it's fine. And as long as he's okay.

That's what matters.

It's okay.

Good stuff.

I wanna move into your career.

Sure.

You know, starting off Rent, It had such a cultural impact. While making that film, did you understand and know that it would have the cultural impact that it did?

By the time we made the movie, we did, 'cause it was like a stage, it was a musical, a stage play first. And that's where we won all of the awards. And, you know, all of us got the record deals and the TV deals. And so the movie was kind of like the cherry on top.

Mm-hmm.

You know, not many people that were able to kind of have that lightning in a bottle also do a movie, you know? So it's almost like a love letter to ourselves. You know, whenever I'm feeling nostalgic, I can watch the movie and it takes us, you know, just like you said, when you watch the younger people win the championship.

Mm-hmm.

When I watch that movie, it takes me right back to, to how lucky we were and how new all of those experiences were. So it was a great way to kind of tie a bow on that experience, that movie.

Absolutely. And you know, you just hinted at, you know, it being a Broadway show originally. What is the difference like in between a Broadway culture and Hollywood culture? Are they similar or are they completely different?

Oh, I wanna say completely different. The Hollywood culture is slowly seeping into the Broadway culture. But what I love about the Broadway culture is like theater is built on, I feel like there are no smoke and mirrors. Yeah. There's a stage, there are real-life people on the stage. You can't pretend. There's no AI, there's no special effects, hardly. And it's drama that you get to feel in the audience. It's a real audience. You can hear them, you know, you can feel the energy. And with, you know, TV and film, it's the exact opposite.

Mm-hmm.

You know, whatever you see, you don't know what's on that screen. You don't know, you know, where that person was before. You don't even know if it's a real person these days.

Yeah.

So, and that's cool, and that's its own technique. You don't know how many times that person said that line. It was edited. It's all smoke. A lot of it can be smoke and mirrors with TV and film. And almost none of it is with, theater, and I love that. And just the way talent is appreciated more in theater as opposed to— 'Cause you can't really, you can't fake presence on stage.

Yes.

You can in film and TV if you have the right lines, you have the right look. And if you have the right editor, you can turn somebody into a movie star. You know what I mean? Somebody who's awful.

Wow.

All they need is one great take for every scene and you can, you know, and that's cool for them. But I can't lie when I say I respect, I just respect the game of the stage more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that makes sense though because You did the whole thing. Like you went the entire route, like going to Syracuse.

Right, right, right, right, right.

Studying and being in theater. So you've gone the whole, that makes sense. It makes a ton of sense because it's like, I think for us the correlation would be, man, that guy, he jumps high.

Right, right.

You right? So, but he ain't got no game.

Right, right, right.

But he jumps high.

Right, right.

You put him in a game, he get a few dunks. This guy looks like, oh man, he got star potential.

Right, right.

Meanwhile, I've had to perfect these things.

Yes.

You know, I've had to like—

Yes.

Because I can't jump like that.

Right.

And so I don't wow.

Right, right.

Like, but then, you know, y'all going like put all the money and marketing behind this guy 'cause he can fly. But he can't really hoop.

Or Instagram. Yes.

Instagram. Absolutely.

You can, you know, you see a person's, a person that has so many, is a basketball dude and you see all of his best shots.

Yeah.

And then he's got 40 million and then he gets these commercials. But then you put him in a game. That's a fact.

Yeah, right? That is a fact.

That's a fact.

Put him in a game, he can't play that.

But then he's the one who's getting all the attention or the commercials. Yes.

That is a fact.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Thanks.

I know you have a film that released today.

Oh, that's right.

I forgot. Look at that. Stepfather. Where you're also a villain.

Yeah, yeah, yes.

How has it been with these roles? I forgot. Congratulations. But you know, you've kind of come up in the, rom-com. Sure. You know, you made your name in "Stella Got Her Groove Back." You're the likable, lovable, everybody.

Played the good guy.

Yeah, right? Like you've played a lot of those roles. Recently these two roles, villains. How have you seen the difference? Myself who's viewed as this crazy villain, right?

Sure.

How have you seen the difference in how the villain is received, especially on Broadway, right? Like when you're getting that real-time reaction.

Sure.

How have you seen the difference in how The villain is received as opposed to, you know, how you're received in how Stella Got Her Groove Back and The Best Man.

Sure.

Brown Sugar.

Let me ask you, and excuse my ignorance, were you always seen as like the way that you play? Was it easy for people to put you in that category always? Or were you a certain way and then like something happened and then people saw you?

Or were you kind of— In my NBA career, I've kind of always been in the middle.

Yeah, see, so I don't, you don't have the, you didn't have the luxury that I did where if I started out as the darling and then as I got older and kind of, you know, more experienced, I was able to, and people were willing to take a chance and see me as the other, then they appreciate it. So I don't know, it'd be different if I was always seen as like, you know, the darker, the, 'cause that's different. But as you know, it's almost, it's kind of not fair 'cause you should get more of the credit 'cause you've come, you know, you've had to deal with it the entire time. But now it's kind of cute.

Yes.

Oh wow, did you see him? I saw him in a whole different light. And when I'm probably more like the evil guys than I, you know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

'Cause they're more human and, and more realistic. But it's been great. It's been great 'cause I get almost all of the positive and none of the negative. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

'Cause it's the type of stuff I've been wanting to play for a while. And now I have the life experience to dip into, you know, those darker places. And people have been around long enough and trust the work long enough to give me the opportunities. It's all good.

It's amazing.

Yeah. I feel very lucky.

So I watched starting during COVID and obviously went back, but I watched "All American." Okay.

Okay.

Which I loved it.

For real?

It was incredible.

Thank you.

Incredible show. I love the realness of the kid and the coach from Crenshaw. You know, in a sense of making it out the hood.

Right, right.

You know, and going to South Beverly.

Yeah.

But then every day going back to the hood.

Yeah.

And then, you know, you allowing him to live with you and your family. Yeah. Like I grew up in Saginaw, Michigan.

Okay.

And there's no LA close by, but it's a lot like Crenshaw.

Okay.

And—

Right, right.

There's no mainstream LA close by.

Okay.

Beverly Hills.

Right.

It's a lot like Crenshaw.

Right, right.

And I was blessed and fortunate to meet Joe Dumars when I was 16. And I would go to their home and it showed me a life outside of Saginaw that I didn't even know was possible. And I remember my first time meeting Jordan, his son, ironically, Jordan was just like—

Yeah.

His son Jordan. And I'm just asking him questions about Joe D. And he's like, "Man, he from Natchitoches, Louisiana." And he's pretty much telling me like, "Hey, a nigga just like you." Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when he told me that, I'm like, "What? Like, huh? You serious?" Like, "You'll meet him when we get off this trip." And I would go to their home.

Yeah.

And it showed me so much. There's no way I'm here talking to you today and where I am in my basketball career, even if I don't meet them, because I just had no idea. I wanted to get to the NBA, but I had no idea how. And like this home they live in exist and we're driving their Bentleys and I'm like, man, this is mind-blowing stuff to me. Like it was life-changing. So to see that kind of on film where I'd go down to their home in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, lot of money down there. Sure. And then after the weekend, I go back to Saginaw. And so I could relate to some of that, you know, to where it's like, you get to live this great life.

Right.

You get to live in this neighborhood where a family, you see two-parent families, and then like two-parent households.

Sure.

And then you go back to the hood. Yeah, yeah. Number one, just talk to me about that whole process, building the character Billy Baker. Talk to me about that. And also, did you play football growing up? Like, what was your in to figuring this character out?

Oh, well, I got, I knew nothing, hardly anything of football. I was attracted to the project because of the writing. And I myself, I grew up in the hood and was bussed out to private schools and to performing arts high school. So I had that same feeling, you know what I mean? There was this joke Chappelle has where he said he would go over his white friend's house and then come back and tell his parents, "Y'all gotta get y'all shit together." Everything works at his house.

Mm-hmm.

And it felt like that. And then added on, which I think we kind of dealt really well with on the program, you don't take into account what the people, your other siblings and other friends in the hood, you know, how kind of threatening that is to them. And when they see you come back with these new words or these new styles or, them thinking that you're not keeping it real anymore and how it feels like you're kind of betraying, you know what I mean?

Absolutely.

You know how it feels like you can't not appreciate where you are, but if you're appreciating this, does that mean that you hate that?

Exactly.

And nobody really lets you know that you can have both. So all of that I kind of brought with me 'cause it was great because, A lot of that character, since I didn't know football as well as I would've liked to, who the character was and where the character came from, that was what I was clinging onto because that I knew from experience. I knew what it was like to come from a place, work really hard, get to a higher place, and then be able to help other people from that low, you know, from that higher place that were in that, you know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

I knew, so that's what I kind of, grasp onto. And then, you know, we had people on set that would help us with the lingo and whatnot. And thank God, you know, they helped me, you know, not look silly.

Yeah.

I was really leaning on them. So it was really a situation where, you know, life was imitating art imitating life. You know, I was raising my kid and a lot of what we were, me and Walker would watch the show together and he would see how my character was dealing with his son. And a lot of the issues that we were dealing with on the show, we were dealing with in real life 'cause my kid was going to a private school. And it's one thing nobody tells you, and I'm sure you can attest to this, it's like people like us, It's gonna sound obnoxious, but we've done it. Like we've come from nothing. We've worked, it's worked for us. We worked hard and now we have something.

Yeah.

So we, it worked. When we have kids, as soon as our kids are born, they have way more, they have way more than we did.

Absolutely.

So it's like, well, how am I supposed to teach him what I learned naturally? So that's the challenge without making him feel like he's less than. 'Cause I never think it's fair when parents that have money try to force their kids to understand what it's like to— you can't teach a kid how to not have money.

Exactly.

To him, it's just regular life. You know what I mean? And when they're like, you walk to school with no, you know, you need to not do this and I'm gonna take this away from you. Or that the kid is just like, why are you? I don't know. Why are you doing this to me? You can't teach that. They've gotta learn it on their own. I think, or you put them in situations where, like I heard somewhere, I think it's just really great to have your kids doing, like giving, just give.

Yeah.

They know what it's like to take something that they like, give it away, and they can see the effect that it has. That's something that feels more natural. But nobody told me that that would be such a challenge. Do you know what I mean? And I'm still, I still struggle with it today. But, and you know, that is something that the character that Billy Baker deals with as well. So, it was great 'cause we were kind of, the character and myself, we were kind of learning from each other.

Yeah.

It's great to be able to take from real life and immediately use it in your craft 'cause you know it works, you know it's real. And any opportunity to be as real as you can, as opposed to kind of making it up and imagining, You know, is great.

Absolutely. No, that's my everyday struggle.

Right?

You know, it's like, man, I want, the whole goal was always for my kids to not live like I live.

Yeah.

You know, like that was the goal.

Yeah.

But man, it's another side to that goal.

Totally.

That it's a fine line of like, you're not living this life that we live. But how do I get you some of these morals and values that came from—

Clean your shit up.

That, you know?

Ah.

Like—

It's so great that Keita, 'cause I, but the thing, 'cause I was, it was fear for me. Like if I didn't pick up my, if we didn't pick up after ourselves, we got beat. So I don't, I definitely never ever want him to be scared like that. But pick up your fucking— Did you get that açaí, boy? Pick it. Again, I don't get why wouldn't you pick that up and put it, but he just doesn't know. And I love the fact that he's not scared. He's not afraid to get beat. But I gotta be like, listen, just don't, I'm not your maid. Clean up after yourself. And the great thing about him is he does realize, he does realize that he has more than others.

Yeah.

And what he hates being called is spoiled.

Okay.

And that's basketball helped him with that. 'Cause what's so great about hoop is that you get all different types of kids from all different kinds of places and they're honest with each other and they'll let you know.

That's real.

Nigga, you need, oh, you got this silver spoon. And so I love that 'cause it's like that is the equalizer. So all I need to do is hint at the fact that maybe he might be spoiled and they'd be like, So it's fun, but it is a challenge.

Yes it is. Yes it is.

A side bowl. I didn't know what a fucking aside. You need breakfast? No, I order an aside bowl. Oh, did you, nigga? Yeah.

Okay. You know what?

Yeah, man.

The first time I ever had one was in Oakland, California. I was in the NBA. Never heard of it before. It's the first time I had one. And by the way, you know the first one I start having? It's sweet as hell.

Right.

Unhealthy.

Unhealthy.

But you couldn't tell me that. I saw fruit and I'm killing this shit. Like, why am I getting a little chunky right here? Oh, it's the amount of sugar in there.

Exactly.

Yeah, I guess.

That's funny.

Speaking of your son coming to age, one of my favorite movies, "The Wood." Oh man. First off, please tell me you, Big Mike, and Ro are still friends. Please.

They are. I mean, the actual people or us?

No, y'all.

Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. I'm trying, I wanna, you know, everybody did these reboots and we haven't, We haven't done any sequels with The Wood. And I've been calling the director trying to get him to— Rick? Yeah, yeah. Okay.

So I told you I got in the film and producing, started a production company. And last year, one of the projects I was selling—

Yeah.

Or trying to sell, which by the way, people don't have a clue and I didn't either. Of how hard it is to get an idea to a TV screen. Like, it's insanity.

That's what I'm saying. If they know you, you've already, if they know your name, you already have made it. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

You're already ahead of the game. Go ahead, sorry.

But we were working on a project together. We were selling a project and ultimately we didn't sell it.

Right. It was Rick Famuyiwa.

Yes. Oh, well tell him to, I'm gonna hold you to that. I told him, I said—

What'd he tell you?

You need to do it. He was like, "Ah, you know, I don't know." All right, with his low voice. Yes.

I don't know. But we need that.

We need that.

Yeah, I think so.

That was a hit.

I mean, I only say it 'cause other people keep bothering me about it. And then when I see the other, like Best Man, we did 2 and 3.

Yes.

But I don't know. I'm curious.

Do you worry that the project is too old to reboot it? Because I don't.

No. And normally I would.

Mm-hmm.

But the fans, like, they— I don't know. I feel so lucky. I'm an asshole 'cause I'll be the quickest one to complain about something when I shouldn't. Like, most of them— a lot of the films that I've participated in, people talk about these movies to me just as much as they did when they first came out.

Mm-hmm.

Just as much. And it's the same— Once. So I just know by the amazing fans, people would be right on it.

Yeah.

You know, and like people's children have watched it. Now their children and their parents. So yeah, that would not be, he wouldn't, nobody would skip a beat. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So, you know, we'll see.

Fingers crossed. Do you think Omar would do it?

I don't know why not.

So you think everybody would be on board?

100%. I do.

We gotta get this done.

I would think so. Even if it's— I never did that in my life. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a great experience and it resonated and it would be, and I'm just curious, it would be a really great acting opportunity.

Bring Sanaa Lathan back.

Totally. Totally. LisaRaye. Yeah.

LisaRaye.

Like— Ah, man, that would be fun.

Melinda.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

We need that, Rick.

I don't know what's going on.

We need that. I would've—

Yeah. But I had to stop 'cause I was bothering him for a while. So I had to lay off. So, you know, we'll see. It's out of my control.

When doing a film like that though, how much are you interacting? How much are y'all three interacting with the real Roland, Big Mike? How much are y'all?

Not a lot, but we were able to meet them.

Okay.

And they're actually in the movie, the actual cats in the drugstore scene when they're getting robbed.

Really?

Yep. So it's Rick. Rick was the lead. Rick was Omar's character. And then was Slim. Slim was a— basketball player, he's behind the counter. And then my character is the light-skinned dude also behind the counter when they're getting robbed. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So that was cool. That was cool just to see how geeked they were to have, you know, actual actors that they knew playing them. You know what I mean? And to make them, to be able to make them laugh at me play, that was awesome. You know what I mean? Yeah, that was, those days, it was a special time. That is amazing. Yeah, it really was. And Rick just let us, he let us just have fun. You know, it was one of the more fun experiences.

Let's see, I think I got one or two more questions.

Yeah, we good.

Oh yes.

You asked me some stuff I've never been asked before. That's great.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah.

I appreciate it. I saw, and by the way, We're running through 'em. "Best Man." Hahaha. I saw you speaking about that before. And you said you didn't expect Nia Long to slap you. She just did it. And I guess my question is, in a moment like that where it gets real and a great actress like Nia Long— Yeah. Slaps a great actor like yourself and it's completely unscripted, A, after the fact, is there a conversation of like, yo, you slapped the shit outta me, I'm a little pissed off. Is it like, yo, that was nuts. Like do you revisit that? And then also after the fact, because as we all know, I've been on some sets, not, nearly like yourself, even commercial sets.

Yeah.

And take 1, take 2, and 5, and 9. And you like, "Yo, you didn't get the shot yet?" Yes, yes. When something like that take place, is there a take 2 or is it like, "I hope you got the shot because I'm not getting slapped again." Well, I was hope—

Okay, first off, let me very quickly, I have gotten the story wrong. I've been telling it wrong. Nia called me last year and was just like, "Just so you know, it was scripted. A slap was scripted, but normally..." Excuse me. "You have a..." What are they called? A stunt person.

Yes.

That teaches you how to fake the slap to make it look real. And that person was there, but we never used the person. Usually you shoot the scene up until the slap. You cut, you come, you do the slap, then you cut, and then you finish the scene. We just went all the way through and she just slapped me without the stunt person. So it was scripted.

Okay.

I just wasn't expecting it. Oh my God. So I had just come out of, It was my first, second really big movie. So I had never, I was like the new cat on the block. So Nia Long had done all this stuff, you know, Morris had done stuff, Harold. So I'm thinking, you know, in acting school you rehearse and I was so just offended that, you know, she would go against protocol and just out of nowhere, So I was expecting everybody to be on my side, but everybody was like, "Oh, that was amazing. Moving on." And I was like, "What? Nobody could have—" I thought she'd get chastised. I thought, you know, we were supposed to meet. "Do you understand how you disrespected?" Okay, none of that. Like, and thank God that was the case because that made that scene. Yes, it did. But I remember being like, "Oh, this is how the real world is." Like, what? Nobody really cares about me. He's not thinking about me. Malcolm wasn't thinking about Malcolm. He's thinking about the project. And Nia was being in the moment. So I just had to swallow my little pride. And then when I saw it, I was like, I get it. I would not have done it any other way now. But at the moment, I remember just being really feeling myself and thinking, oh my, look at these heathens. How dare they? They don't know how to run a movie set. You know? But that usually happens when you get caught in your feelings. But once I was able to see it from their sides, it made perfect sense.

Wow.

Yeah, it was a trip.

That's incredible. And Nia Long is one of the titans when you're talking—

Yeah.

I say actresses in general, but—

Oh, 100%.

There's an era of '90s actresses and she is one of them. Like absolute tight.

Yeah. Yeah.

Your first film or big film, it's with Angela Bassett.

Yeah.

"How Stella Got Her Groove Back." Yes. I mean, what was that like? To me, that's like, You make it to the NBA, go guard LeBron James in 2012. Good luck.

Yeah.

Like, that's like just being thrown into the fire with like the best of the best. How did you have the confidence to go stand next to Angela Bassett that early in your career, be her love interest, and actually like, Like you bodied that character.

I appreciate that.

Like how was that whole experience and prepping for that and showing up every day, being number 2 on the call sheet behind Angela Bassett? What was that experience like starting off?

If I'm gonna be so honest with you and even if I'm, if, okay, it makes me uncomfortable and kind of sad to even say this. But I don't know who I thought I was back then. But at that point, when I got "How Stella Got Her Groove Back," I was feeling myself. And the reason I'm sad is because I don't have that confidence now. Like somehow, not somehow, the business can beat it out you.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? Life can beat it out you. And I'm confident. I know what I can do. But you know how they say you need to be delusional?

Mm-hmm.

I must have been delusional.

Yes.

Because even though I got that movie so early, like my career happened so quickly and I'm so lucky and like I hardly had to work at all. It just was just given to me. And even then I was like, And when I was in "Rent," I was like, "Okay, I need, when's my next movie coming?" Wow. Like when I got "Hostile" or "Grooveback," I was like, "Well shit, it's about time. Where the fuck y'all been? It should be Angela Bassett. I should be, she's—" I had that attitude. And luckily I had that confidence. It wasn't an attitude. Luckily it helped me get, 'cause if me today, I would've fucked it up.

Yeah.

But because I had that confidence, I was on set like I needed to be there. I saw her as equal. There were even times when I'm like, I was in my head, is she gonna do it like that? Like I was that cocky, you know what I mean? I was wrong.

Wow.

I was wrong. But there's something to be said for that delusional sense of confidence where I really was like, I'm supposed to be here and I'm supposed to go further. So this is just finally, now I'm on my way. It happens to be Angela Bassett. Who's next?

Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. So I don't know, I need to figure that out, but I need, I wanna get back to that cat 'cause it was working back then.

Listen, I can relate to that so much.

Ugh.

Like coming into the NBA.

Oh boy.

I feel like I had that confidence and delusion as well. I can, I don't feel like that at all. And you're right, it can get beat out of you. Like I guess even people think I'm boisterous now.

Yeah.

Go watch a fucking interview from 2014. You think I'm boisterous now? I'm so scared to say something now? 2014, what? So I can relate to that. Yeah. I can absolutely relate to that.

Times have changed too.

They have.

We can't get away with as much and oh my Lord.

Yeah. Yeah, I can, trust me.

Yeah, it's a trip. It's just a trip, right?

Yes it is. Yes it is. And by the way, you probably see it just like I see it. I see some of these young kids coming today, delusional as hell, completely outta their rabbit ass minds. And I'm like, look at this dog.

Uh-huh.

And somewhere inside I'm like, I wish I was like that again.

Yes. Not caring.

Yes.

'Cause that's what it is. If you don't care, it's all so much is in the head. You know what I mean? And if you don't care, then no one can tell you. No one can tell you. You know what I mean? You're making up your own rules. So there's something to be said for that.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And, Before we get outta here. So I was telling you about a project that I had worked on. It'll perform as a mental health project. I more so wanted to do the project because as opposed to champion mental health, telling someone, "Yo, you should." Yeah.

Yes.

I just want people to see this project and those that need it say, "Oh." Yes.

"I need that." Thank you for that.

You know.

Thank you for that.

I need that.

You know, I'm so tired of people trying to tell me what to do on the— Thank you.

Absolutely. And saying that, You've been outspoken about your sister.

Yes.

And dealing, and her dealing with schizophrenia.

Uh-huh.

And you know, and being outspoken about that, have you, and being an advocate for mental health, those battling with schizophrenia, helping your sister the way that you do, Have you seen a great reception of people that wanna help or do you see it and you like, man, not enough people getting behind this, not enough people understand the severity, not enough people are doing other things to help themselves, to help others that may be dealing with these struggles.

Yeah.

How has your journey been?

That's a great question. And if I'm being honest, this is one of those situations where I have to make a choice to just do the work. And then like I said, let go. Because it's one of those rabbit holes where if I think too much about it, it'll be self-defeating.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? And I need to be up so that I can speak. But there are so many opportunities to see the negative side of things. Even in something as— it's really humbling because, you know, in life you wanna kind of enjoy the Ws, right?

Mm-hmm.

So my sister was brave enough to put herself out there. We were able to do it together. We worked— the people that we teamed up with were wonderful, and everybody was showering us And it's really great to get caught up in, "All right, we're doing it. We're making a difference." But even then, and while we're on camera saying that, you know, it's this challenge never ends, like mental, there's no endgame with mental health. It's something that you have to keep working at. You know, when my sister and I would go through our peaks and valleys, I would get, pissed like, wait, I'm still, we still gotta work at this 'cause we did the commercial and everybody was.

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't work like that. You're still in it.

Absolutely.

So you gotta, you know, for me, I just gotta try to keep myself on an even keel and know that the work that we're doing is working, but there's still work to do. And I can't be like, oh, I did that. Now everybody congratulated us, it's done. Moving on to the next. No, it's, we're still working on it. And now through talking about, you know, what she's working on, I'm realizing stuff about myself. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

I have a lot of what she has and didn't even realize it. So I was like, ah, it's like, you know, you open up the, who's the box? There's a box, Pandora's box. That's a negative thing, right? Yeah. You open up, And now I'm learning way more about myself and stuff that is not fun. You know what I mean? But I just gotta let go and just keep doing the work and kind of accept everything that comes with it.

1000%.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And try to remove myself from thinking I know how it's supposed to work out. So good for you, man. That's great stuff.

Thank you. No, that's amazing. Yeah.

If you need me for any of that stuff, I'm 100% down.

Okay. I appreciate that. Yeah, man. Thank you. Thank you. And lastly, before we get out here, I appreciate you being so gracious with your time.

Thank you.

I also want you to know, like, I'm playing it cool, but I'm not okay.

Oh, okay.

This is—

Good. Hey, to me, that's okay. That is okay. When you can say you're not okay, that is okay for me. It's when you don't say that, that's when I'm like, okay, let's just wait. Watch. For sure. Yeah.

You know.

Good for you, man, to be able to say that.

This has been an honor for me.

Hey, man.

You know, my childhood self would've never imagined that like I'd be sitting here speaking with you. And so I wanna thank you.

Likewise.

As like one of the first guests that like after 5 years, that really moves outside of basketball. Hey, I appreciate that. Sports.

That's an honor.

I can't thank you enough for doing that. That's an honor. And before we get outta here, like I said, "Stepfather" released today exclusively on Tubi. Can you tell us about that project and what we can expect? I'm gonna go check the project out.

Oh, thank you, sir.

Can you tell us about the project and what's there to expect from it?

Ooh, it's, yeah, it's something different for me. I played, speaking of like schizophrenia, I play a character that is dealing with multiple personalities and it was quite a challenge. Tamar Braxton was right alongside me and we had a ball. It was work, but it was something that I, Every once in a while I'll take on a project I won't have any idea how I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna trust myself, you know, my team and the director, be in the moment and see what happens. And this is one of those projects. So hopefully people dig it. And yeah, it was definitely a challenge.

It's amazing. Y'all make sure y'all check it out.

"Stepfather." My man.

Exclusively on Tubi. Man, thank you so much.

Thank you, sir. Keep it up.

Yes, sir.

Keep it up, man.

This has been a complete honor.

Yeah.

And you know, I, it's been a whirlwind, but it's been an honor to step in y'all's side of the business.

Yeah.

And learn. Yeah. My wife is an actress.

Oh, okay.

And so she, I first gained interest during COVID Yeah. Because I had to read and tape her. And I'm just like, man, I'm watching this product be made. And I'm like, this is interesting. And like learning more from her about behind the scenes stuff.

Yeah.

I'm like, this reminds me of basketball. Like the way this thing is being put together.

Yeah.

It's reminding me of how we put a play together. How we put a season. And it really has, she's really drawn me into it and watching her kind of go along her, go through her journey.

Yeah.

And like how she can be told no so many times and just get back up and do the next audition. And I'm like, man, that's brave. 'Cause I fucking hate being told no.

Yeah.

And it inspired me. And now, you know, she's, we have a 6-month-old. So she had been taking class for the last 2, 2 and a half years.

Yeah.

And she stopped taking class. Like her last class was 2 days before the baby was born. Wow. Wow. Like she literally did. And she's had 2 auditions now in 6 months. She just started back auditioning about 6 weeks ago. She's booked both roles. Both roles.

Something happens, they say, after a woman has a baby.

Absolutely.

With their work. And they're like, they're different. I hear that from every actress that has had a child.

So she's actually—

Good for her.

She's doing great. And I said all of that to say, just to, like, I don't know the half of what you've gone through. And yet I have such an appreciation for just the small journey that I've started on and actually lifting up the curtain and seeing how it goes.

Right, right.

To you and every other actor that's become a producer, you know, and like continue to grow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

I just want you to know and all of you all to know, like so forever grateful because what TV brings to our lives.

Yeah.

And what we learn.

Yes.

Through these films and these shows that you all have put your blood, sweat, and tears into.

Right, right.

And like, it's so beneficial to us as human beings and our growth.

I appreciate that.

And— But the journey is brutal.

Yeah, it can be.

You know, and I just want you to know I'm forever grateful for this interview, but I'm forever grateful for your work.

Thank you, sir.

What the pieces have meant in my life. I can't thank you enough.

You're gonna do well, as I can tell just from the way that you come at it. You come at it with a certain respect and hunger and desire and, like wonderment. So, and that's, especially later in life, like when you've already had success in one area and then you still have the energy to be inquisitive about the, like, yeah, it's not for the faint of heart. So I, we gotta do something together. We gotta do some stuff together, man.

Would love to.

Yeah.

We will for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. That'd be an honor.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It's an honor.

Thank you.

It's an honor. Yeah.

That's a wrap. Thank y'all so much. Appreciate it. It's a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green Show. Wow. What a time. I'm pinching my young self.

Yes. Thank you.

If you're rocking with the Draymond Green Show, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. And while you're there, go ahead and drop give it a 5-star rating and leave a review. I wanna hear what you think, and it would also mean a ton to me if you share it with a friend that you think would enjoy it. Let's keep this thing growing. The Draymond Green Show is presented by Audacy and executive produced in conjunction with The New Media. Our executive producers are Leah Reese Dennis, Danny Friesinger, and Greg Holtzman. Video production and creative design by Curt Courtney, Tim Meekle, Lauren Vieira, and Evan O'Brien. Special thanks to the team at The New Media and the team at Odyssey. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Shuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Rose, Colin Gaynor, and Jake Gally. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]