Tristan Thompson on Cavs 3-1 comeback, LeBron & Kyrie, and Lakers workout | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to The Volume's YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. What's up everybody? Welcome back to The Draymond Green Show. This next guest I am excited to have. Number one, he's a guy who has a voice, who's not afraid to use their voice. But as you know, come on The Draymond Green Show, you gotta have a resume. That's just how it goes. That's just what it is. You gotta have a resume. It's exclusive. You gotta have been there, accomplished something. And this guy right here, not only did he accomplish something, he actually beat me in the NBA Finals, provided the biggest comeback in NBA Finals history, coming back from down 3-1. As you know, the Cleveland Cavaliers, they came back. This guy was the starting center. Leading rebounder, setting the best screens, defensive anchor, voice. If you're actually out there on the floor, like you hear how much communicating he does. So important to the championship team. I'm honored to have this next guest, my brother, Double T, Tristan Thompson. What up, my brother?

What up, bro? Appreciate it. That's a good little rundown right there. I like that.

I like that.

It says a lot there. I like it.

Appreciate it, Draymond.

Absolutely.

No, no doubt, man. I appreciate you coming on. I've been looking forward to this. You know, like I said, you're someone who I have a tremendous amount of respect for. The way that you came into the NBA, number one, coming from Canada. Basketball started to become big in Canada just as you were growing up. And to take hold of that, come to America, own your path, go to Texas, get to the NBA, fourth pick. Absolutely amazing. And I just really wanna start off by talking to you about that. Like growing up in Canada, I saw the Carter Effect, the documentary, The Carter Effect, and how much impact Vince Carter had on basketball. But growing up young in Canada before all of that started happening, did you even have a thought of like, I wanna play basketball, I wanna play at a high level, and I wanna go to the NBA?

No, to be honest, you know, being a Jamaican background, my first love was soccer. So growing up as a kid, you know, 6, 7, 8, 8-year-old, you know, it was all about soccer. It was soccer, soccer, soccer. And to be honest, I didn't even think about basketball or even NBA. And to be honest, it wasn't really until Vince Carter when I was like, you know, I started hitting a growth spurt. And I said, you know what? You know, keep getting these handballs on the soccer field. I said, you know, let's try basketball. It looks fun. Guys are jumping high and dunking. So I said, why not try this sport out? And then, you know, how popular Vince Carter was and the Nike commercial with the Nike Shox. Yeah. See how electrifying, you know, always windmilling or dunking on Tim Duncan. I was like, I wanna play basketball and I wanna make the NBA. So that's how it was for me.

And at what age did you actually start playing?

The 6th grade. So that was that, that's like 12 years old, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So kind of compared to all the kids in America, you know, right now you have AU 8 and under, 9 and under. So for me it was kind of a later start, but, I fell in love with the game. And then ever since the 6th grade, I've been in love with the game and been playing.

You know what's crazy is I see guys who start later. Like I started playing basketball when I was 4 years old. I played on my first structured team at 6.

Wow.

And I was playing with like 3rd and 4th graders. So 1st grader playing with 3rd and 4th graders, it's a totally different feel. And I didn't play much, but to get that experience for me, was huge. And you know, so you start playing at 12 and one thing, and you tell me if you agree with this, one thing I feel like I've noticed is guys who start playing at a later age like yourself don't really build bad habits. You know, you start young, you start at 6 years old, you can't really shoot the ball, you fling it like this.

Yeah.

You know, like you're pushing the ball. But guys who start at like later ages yourself, Joel and B, don't really have bad habits. Do you agree with that? Can you speak to that a little bit?

No, I agree. I think it's because, you know, when we start playing basketball, like you said, myself, Draymond Green, and other guys, you feel like you're behind the 8-ball. You feel like you have to catch up to the other kids that have been playing, you know, since like— there's like a guy like yourself, like, you know, since you're 6 years old. So for us, it's almost like we treat every practice or every drill like we have to get better every day and we have to build the right fundamentals because, you know, we feel like we're 10 steps behind. And then like you said, you know, you watch kids now, the first thing they do is go to 3-point line. They're just, they're just chucking the ball. They're not, they're developing so many bad habits. And, and just even my son Prince, you know, you know, well, like, you know, I've been teaching him, like, you know, left hand dribble. No, don't use two hands. No double dribbling. So, cuz like you said, like the kids that start super early, you, you develop bad habits. But you know, for a guy like myself and people from international, we know that, listen, we're not American, so we're already behind the 8 ball. Mm-hmm. We're already looked at as not as good. Why pick a kid from Canada when I can go grab a kid from somewhere in the States? So for us, we knew that every day in the gym, it had to count.

Man, speaking of Prince, like you just mentioned, your son, who I have the honor of knowing and having a relationship with, he's such an incredible kid, bro. Like, and I know I've said this to you before, like such an incredible kid. Speaks so highly of his father. He sit there like, "My daddy play on— my daddy play in the NBA too. My daddy on TV too." He tell me all that. He be so happy, man. I think it's so dope. And, you know, for you to mention him here, this wasn't where the interview was going, but I actually was telling Farrah. Farrah was like, "Provide me with some questions." And I sent her some of the questions that I have, but I said, "Farrah, I just wanna let you know this isn't gonna be the typical interview." I like to go where the interviewee takes me. And you speaking of your son, like, speak to me about fatherhood. We've had discussions. And speak to me about fatherhood, bro, and like what that's done for you as a man in your life and how it's forced you to grow.

Yeah, well, I think it's important for everyone to know is that, you know, Prince and DJ, they love each other. They best friends. And they, you know, gone on vacation. And you're an amazing father and an amazing role model to your kids. And what you've done for when I'm not around for, for Prince being there for him, especially being on the West Coast and being able to come back and forth to LA. So I appreciate that. I think it's important—

Absolutely.

—as men to show their appreciation for other fathers because it's tough. It's not easy, especially with our schedules. It's not really in favor of our families. So the fact that you're able to be there for DJ and even there for Prince, it means a lot. So I appreciate you for that. And I think fatherhood, I think it's part of the journey. I think, you know, me growing up not having a father figure, having my dad around, you know, being him being in and out of jail, incarcerated. So for me, having kids, it was always important for me to, especially with boys, you know, we gotta make sure we, you know, teach them the right things and kind of be a leader. And I think that's how you shape, you know, try to create these young men and kind of break the cycle, you know what I'm saying? And I think that's important.

Absolutely. No, absolutely. And 100%, bro, I appreciate you. And also the openness to that, you know what I'm saying? Like Prince is my nephew, as you know. Yeah, of course. And like, you know, do beach days. We've done all type stuff. And I have an appreciation for that too because I understand the grind. Like you're in Cleveland, you're in Boston. Whereas on the West Coast, you can get back and forth. And I think that's important, you know, for us. Like you said, your father was in and out of prison. My mom and my dad divorced at 12, you know? And I always talk about the things that I did not learn. Like, so I'll never say I didn't, like, grow up with a man in my life. Like, I grew up with some great men in my life. But I had this conversation with my mom before. I said, "Ma, you were incredible. Like, the things that you taught me were great. But there are just some things that I didn't learn." Mm-hmm. Just because I did not grow up in the house with another— with a man in the household. You know, it's like certain traits that you pick up that are those that a woman would teach that a man wouldn't necessarily teach, or some things that you will pick up from a man in the house that you didn't necessarily pick up. And I now, growing up in my life, I've realized like, man, there's some things that— Mm-hmm. I just didn't get due to that. And so in a situation like yours where you're halfway across, you're all the way on the other side of the country, like not that Prince is growing up with a man in the household, but just to have a man around sometimes when your father can't be there, I think that's important. You know what I'm saying? And I try to do that when I can because it's a tribe, man. Like we all were raised by tribes.

Mm-hmm.

We weren't just raised by our mom. Raised by tribes, you know what I'm saying? And so I can appreciate that. And then speaking of mother, you recently lost your mom. Now, number one, I wanna say I'm sorry about your loss. I couldn't imagine. Like, you know, my mom is everything, you know? And so I couldn't imagine. So I wanna say, number one, I'm sorry about your loss. But just like, how are you coping with that? Like, what— Yeah. What do you lean into? Because you have to lean into something to kill the time. Like, what do you find comforting to lean into?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's definitely tough. Like you said, like, you know, our moms, especially what I know is like a lot of us hoopers, like our moms are rock, you know, because they're the ones that, they come to the AAU games, they come to the high school games, come to the college games. They're rooting for us, they're in the stands. They might cuss a fan out. They might, they'll go to war for us. So, you know, my mom was like that for me. Losing her, it's been tough. I think it's— there's always— there's good days and there's bad days. Some days are easier than others. What I try to do is keep myself busy, but try to give a lot of my love and my time to my kids just because they give me peace of mind and they give me a purpose. Of course, we all have a purpose in life. But I think when times are tough and things are dark, when you look at your kids and see them, that's where you get that light. Like, all right, I can do this. You know what I'm saying? I got to do it for them. Mm-hmm. I got to be strong for them. You know, like, my mom was the type of woman who says, you know, you know, there's no time for sitting around. You got to get up and be active. You know, men have to have ambition. Men have to get up every day and keep it pushing. You know, you can't be lazy. You know what I'm saying? So—

Absolutely.

That's what I took from her, her work ethic. And I just try to do that with being in this state. Because it's not easy. It's tough. You know, I get so used to waking up in the morning with her living in Toronto, the 3-hour difference. You know, wake up to text messages from her and, you know, not getting that no more. There's times where I have pictures, like even when Prince had his school recital, like school recital, I, you know, I text my mom and I'm like, you know, like, so it's still tough, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, obviously she was very big in the church and very big in faith and she was a— she preached. So, you know, I just pray a lot and, you know, just get just the closer I feel like I get in with the spiritual side and with God. And, you know, everyone has their own beliefs and whatnot, but, you know, I just try to get tapped into that so I can, you know, help me through these times.

Absolutely, bro. Man, I couldn't imagine. And your mom took care of your brother. I grew up having seizures, epilepsy. You had seizures? Yeah, I had seizures. I was actually born having a seizure. So I was told this story. I was born and my grandfather said, "Why is that baby shaking like that?" like, baby shouldn't be shaking like that. They never figured it out. I think when I was like 6 or 7 years old, I had like a real seizure and I went on medicine. And I was on medicine till I was 28 years old. I had my last seizure when I was 14, 15. And I was on medicine for it until I was 28 years old. I started talking with a neurologist and he was speaking about, like, he was talking about, "Hey man, I think you can stop taking the medicine now. Like, we should start weaning you off." I'm like, "Actually, I already weaned myself off." Wow.

Fuck. Yeah.

And like, I happen to, like, I'm blessed and I don't take that for granted at all. You have a younger brother who has a much more serious case, epilepsy. And now you taking on that responsibility. I wanna shed light on that, not to share your business, but more so to show what type of person you are. 'Cause I think a lot of times in the media, people get so caught up in someone's personal life that they— and what they do with their life, that they forget to see the good in people. And just speaking of the type of guy you are, you've taken that on. Like, speak to me about that, because that's challenging.

Yeah, no, it's, you know, I'm the oldest of 4, oldest of 4. You know, my brother, that's 27, so he's on his own in Toronto. And then I have the middle child, he's 18, so he's living with my brother right now. And then I have Amari, who's, who's 16, who has epilepsy, and he's with me full-time and under my care full-time. The type of epilepsy he has is called LSG. It's basically, if you want to put it in a nutshell, basically what, 1 in 100 people have epilepsy, but he's 1 out of 2 million that have this type of epilepsy. And I guess if you have to rank it, it's one of the worst-case epilepsies out there. So— Yeah. For him, he's disabled and we have to have 24-hour care for him. So I have to have caregivers and nurses that have actually dealt with cases like this just because his seizures are very severe and if they're not treated right, it could be very bad. So for me, I take that responsibility at the end of the day, that's family. And my mom always told me, when you're blessed, you bless others and you always take care of your family regardless of the situation. And then to me, you know, the reason why, you know, I'm so close to Amari, to me, it's like that one piece of my mom that I have left, you know? And 'cause she basically, once I got to the NBA, she retired. I told her, you know, no more working. She was a school bus driver. I said, just take care of Amari, focus on Amari, and I'll take care of everything else. So, you know, I've taken on that with myself right now. And he's done much better being out here. It's always better when you have sun. But it was the snow, the snow and gray clouds.

Absolutely.

It's too depressing. So Amari's out here, he loves California. He's starting to gain weight and he's smiling more and more happy. And it's just, you could just see his energy and spirit. You know, of course it's, even though he doesn't talk, you know, of course people always feel, he might not be able to talk or be able to articulate how he's feeling, but you could tell when this first happened with my mom, you could tell he was more and more depressed, didn't really want to eat, was more bundled up in a ball in the bed. That he's, you know, as time has passed, he's, you know, and that is a big shout out to the caregivers that I have, the nurses that are taking care of him, that are giving him the love in addition to the love I'm giving him and my family's giving him because, you know, they're, even though they're getting paid to do a job, they're going above and beyond. And we have him going to, you know, birthday parties with the nurses to like, it's so, so it's great. So it's challenging, but it's, you know, it's part of my journey and, you know, I'm trying to make my mom proud.

That's special, man. That's special. That's special. You know, like you— I think your mom said it best. We get put in these positions, and the reality is you're placed in these positions to bless and help others. And for you to do that, like, you don't have to do that. You could easily have someone else do that. You know, you can have someone else take care of it. You can pay for someone. Like, you— that's honorable, man. And I feel like those are the stories. Like, that was— When I started this podcast, it was for stuff like that. It was for to let, like, let's talk about Tristan Thompson playing basketball and not like, "Oh, well he had 13 rebounds today, but he only had 7." Like, yeah, my son can see he had 13 rebounds on the stat sheet today. That's another reason I started. But also like the good in us, you know, no one ever really wanna talks about the good because they say it doesn't sell. Right, right. You know, controversy sells, they say.

Yeah, 100%. No, that's lazy. That's lazy. Yeah, that's just lazy. They don't wanna do the homework. They don't wanna do the work.

Exactly. No, no. Talking about Tristan Thompson and Amar'e sells as well, you know? And it's refreshing and people need to hear it. And so I thank you for sharing that story with us because you didn't have to, but I can take something away from that. And I think everyone else can take something away from that. So I think that's absolutely important.

—I agree. I think that's the one thing that I think with your platform and what you're doing is like changing the narrative. And you know, you're— and one thing I love about you is that you'll get on that mic and you'll— and the good thing is that the difference between you and other people that we won't mention their name is that, listen, you can stir the pot and you can light a fire under someone's ass, but you actually have the knowledge. You have both, which makes it— which makes you a fucking problem. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate it. And that's why the media is afraid of you because It's like, you know, even with myself doing ESPN, like, they just think we're just like, you know, Black basketball players that just go play basketball, don't know nothing about the game. But they don't realize that like, we study the game, we have knowledge, and we study what goes on in the world, and we see the trends. Like, we see that if a GM from— let's just name it— if a GM from Cleveland, a rumor comes out and people be like, oh, well, if a certain reporters are cool with certain GMs. So, you know, if a report comes from this guy, you know who's talking. And I think you called that out. You called that out. And it's just like, you know, the fact that we know that stuff and we're changing the narrative of how people perceive us, they can't stand that because the guys that have these positions that we're in are usually the guys that never played basketball.

Yeah.

Probably were maybe the GA or the ball boy. But the fact that we actually hoop and we have the knowledge and we have the feel, Like it just scares them. That's why they're furious. So, you know, I ask them to keep doing your thing, bro. Like we gotta change that narrative. You know what I'm saying? We have to.

And we are. The new media, baby. You know, I'm gonna tell you one that I hate. Basketball players that start acting like they didn't play basketball. They start acting like they not one of us. Like, bro, like— I get it. Like, being a part of the media, I am a part of the media now. You're a part of the media now.

Mm-hmm.

But one thing I'll never forget is I played basketball and how that feels. You know what I'm saying? Like, what that's like. And like, it irks me when I see guys get up there and forget. Like, yo, you sat in that same locker room. Like, you dealt with these same issues. You dealt with these same thing. That irks me more than the guys that didn't play and talk stupid.

Yeah, I know. Because it's like that brand new, you're like, bro, I, I literally played against you 2, 3 years ago and you were never like this. And like, don't act like you've never been in these positions before. Or don't act like you've never had a, a bad month, a bad shooting month, you know, or not being able to show up because who knows what was going on. But I agree with you when guys, it's funny because it's like, you know, doing media, Everyone thinks that you have to figure out like which villain or character you're gonna be, and it's like, no, just be yourself. And if you just have knowledge and you just know what— if you stand on what you believe in and you just know what you're talking about, people are gonna fall in love with you because people want organic people. People don't wanna deal with the fake. Listen, you wanna— if certain guys on TV, they wanna just stir the pot, and that might last for a couple years, but to have longevity, you're gonna have to have more than just, you know, Absolutely.

You're actually gonna have to analyze something, right? Not tell us what the stat sheet— oh man, this guy shot awful. He was 5 for 21. Well, I can see that. All right, what else you got for me? Why was he 5 for 21? What did that defense do to make him 5 for 21? Did he just miss shots that he normally makes and he was 5? What actually happened to get him to 5 for 21?

Yeah. Break the film down. Break the film down. Show us what's going on. You know what I'm saying? A lot of guys think it's like Stashy just taught. No. Show us what's going on. Maybe it's a matchup that this guy has struggled the last 5 games against. When he plays against this guy, he struggles. Like, give us more, man. Give us more. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And in speaking of these things and family, and I wanna move into your career because I think, like I started this thing off with, your career was amazing. But before we actually get into the meat of the career, I wanna ask you something that I will watch and I know all of the pressure that we're under. Like we are under an immense amount of pressure all the time. Schedule is absolutely insane.

Mm-hmm.

Two things that you did that I thought was absolutely amazing. One, you dating your child's, your second child's mother, second, through Khloe and her fame and attention that she draws. I don't think people understand the draw that that then has on you, right? Like, for you could— because you have to take on that schedule. You have to take on like that fame. You have to take on— if it's this event, I may be in the middle of— I may be in the midst of a stretch of 5 games in 7 nights. And on one of those two nights we have off, there's an event that she has to go to and I have to attend that event, right? So now I'm 6 and 7 nights. Like taking on that, how did you adjust to that? Like, you know, everyone wants to talk about your relationship. Like, I don't give a fuck about that. Like that ain't got nothing to do. But how did you adjust to like having to take on another person's schedule that's so busy and so much and so out there 'Cause that's a huge thing. And to stay locked in and focused like you did, like, how did you take on it and, like, channel that?

Yeah, I think it's definitely— yeah, you know, like you said, dating someone that's a high profile and dating someone that's in the public eye and whose career is very public, you know, you take on that. It's no different than with your wife. You know, like, now she has to take on to your NBA schedule. And, you know, like, Chloe should take on to my NBA schedule. I think the great thing about, you know, about your wife and about, you know, when I was with Khloe is that they understood how much we love the game of basketball and how much we are invested in it. And they, you know, during the season, she put a lot of her stuff on hold because she wanted to be there for me and support me. And that shows a lot about her character and it shows how much she's invested in the relationship. So during the season, it wasn't, It wasn't tough at all because it was more so like the way we viewed it was during NBA season, it's about the NBA. And then the summertime is more focused on her because, you know, for us, our summer, it's more kind of freelance. You know, we freelance, we work out, you know, I can get up at 6 and be done with all my stuff, you know, get 2 workouts in and treatment. I can be done by noon. So during the season, it wasn't so tough just because she sacrificed a lot to be in Cleveland with me. She was in Cleveland with me majority of the season and she'd go back and forth. And that was a sacrifice that she made that I give a lot of respect to. But during the summertime, like you said, there's definitely events you want to go to because you want to be supportive. At the end of the day, when you're dating someone, the way they support you, you want to support them. And that's what a relationship is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a union. It's supposed to be a— it's a team. You know what I'm saying? It's no different than hooping, having your brother's back. So during the season, it wasn't tough. During the offseason, it was much easier just because we didn't have a crazy schedule. Yeah, would there be times if we were playing the Lakers and we were on a 4-day trip, like we played the Lakers and Clippers when I was with Cleveland, the West Coast trip, There'll be times where we have an event, but it's tough. But you make those sacrifices because you love someone, and they would do the same thing for you. But in terms of just being a public guy, it's a bigger microscope. But you got to be prepared for that. You got to— listen, I've made more mistakes than for enough men's lifetime. And so I've learned the hard way. But I take accountability. It was on me. At the end of the day, as a man, you got to look in the mirror and say, I made these, I made these wrong decisions and I hurt someone I love and I hurt loved ones around, you know, because, you know, if you make a mistake and you hurt the initial person, you're not just hurting them, you're hurting yourself, you're hurting my mom, my brothers, her family, you're hurting everyone that has any bit of love for you because at the end of the day, everyone just wants to see you happy. And when something, you know, negative happens that you put yourself in, everyone feels bad and they wish it never happened because they know you have a good heart. It's part of the growing pains. I think growing up as a kid, you always have your OGs and your older guys that'll tell you, hey, like— I remember Rich told me, like, hey, you got to grow up. If you're going to date someone, you got to be fully locked in and two feet in. And I'd be like, OK, yeah, yeah. You listen. But as kids, you put yourself in positions, and you make mistakes. And sometimes we got to find out the hard way. And it's just part of the journey. And of course, do I wish it never happened? Of course not. But you got to be accountable at the end of the day. And the love is love. A lot of times where, you know, a lot of the mistakes I was making, it was because, you know, I never had— I never— I was searching for something that it was just always in here. You know what I'm saying? Like, I realized that. I realized— and that's almost the part of our game that's the part of sports with athletes is the sad part, even though I'm going off topic, talking more like just—

You're never off topic here, brother. You're never off topic here.

Yeah, I think the sad part about being an athlete, or the tough part, is that we're always taught to like, you know, kill or be killed mode, my way or the highway, you know, my shit don't stink, I could do whatever I want, I don't care who— because we're taught that because we're always in competition to get to that next, you know, it's like the pre-draft, you want to move up the spot, so you got to take this guy down. He might be the nicest guy, he might be Jordan Perdette, who's a heavy Christian, but you gotta, you gotta go and destroy this guy because you want his spot, you know? And Absolutely. And developing that mindset as an athlete, it sometimes hurts your relationships because you don't, you don't understand how to view someone else's side or feel what someone's feeling. You almost say, hey, I'm just gonna do this and I'll live with the results. But then shit happens where, you know, you fuck up. And my bad for cursing, but you fuck up and—

Curse as much as you want on here, champ.

Yeah, so you start, You know, you fuck up and you're like, fuck, like, why do I keep making these mistakes? And I know right from wrong. I'm not a dumbass. I know right from wrong. But then you got to like, you know, for me, I did a lot of therapy and like self-help and self-growth. And I realized that a lot of shit that I was doing was from what I've seen what my dad was doing, or, you know, like I said, breaking up, breaking the cycle, because I don't want the mistakes I made. The mistakes my dad made to my mom is the mistakes that I made to women that I've been with in my past. I don't want Prince. I don't want Prince to do that. I don't want— I want to break the wheel. And the only way to break that cycle was I had to stop that. I had to fix that being controlled because I don't want him to do what I've done. And when I'm 60, I see him 25 or being with someone or married, seeing him make the same mistakes I make, that means I didn't do my job as a father. So until I understood that and put myself in a vulnerable position to, to, to, to to kind of let myself open up and figure out what was triggering me to make these kind of stupid actions, you know, doing stupid immature shit. Once I figured that out, then I was able to grow and kind of like blossom and mature. And that's what's helped me so much. And I think with this time not playing on the NBA schedule, I've done more time to help myself be just a better human being because— Mm-hmm. Majority of my life is gonna be non-NBA than NBA. You know what I'm saying? Being a professional athlete. So I gotta start at some point starting to grow, you know? And with having more time on my hands, I wanted to do that.

Yeah, that's special. I think that's great. You know, it take so many people, most people so long to find that, you know? Like to find that from within, to find like, I wanna go get some help. If I wanna go talk to somebody, I'm cool. I'm gonna go talk to somebody. I'm gonna go get some help. You know what I'm saying? I applaud you on that. But, you know, and switching gears and moving forward to your career, because that's a whole book in itself and everything that's going on. I wanna start pre-draft. There's this common misconception that LeBron James is one of the first, is the first Clutch client. It's actually not true.

No.

You are actually a Clutch client before LeBron James. When you decided to go with Klutch, I mean, pretty much at the inception of Klutch, yeah, at the inception of Klutch, what made you trust in Rich and trust in Farrer? You know, they're at the beginning of their journey and you were projected top 5 pick right away. What made you trust in them so early on before anybody could see, before at the time when it was just, that's LeBron's boy and he's starting the agency because of LeBron. What made you have the comfort to trust in Rich and Farrer and Klutch Sports?

How did that work? When I met Rich, he was under CAA with Leon Rose, and that was LeBron's agent during that time. And I never— for me, I committed at Texas early. I committed at 10th grade because I don't care to talk to these older men and just have them lie to you. Like, I commit early because I don't want to— first, I don't want you college coaches calling me, OK? I'm in high school. I want to be on AIM. I want to kick it with my friends. So I commit early. AIM.

You AIMing yourself, G.

I know, right? The sidekick. The dollar day plan. Absolutely. But it was the same thing. Yeah, it was the same thing for like picking an agent. Like, it was for me, it was like, you know, I trust Rich. I'm comfortable with him. He wants the best for me. I don't have time. I don't care to talk to the— I don't want to sit down and eat with you guys. No disrespect, but I'd rather just like hang with my friends. And like, because I had that relationship and connection with Rich, I said it's a no-brainer. I remember— telling my mom, you know, I want to sign with Rich. And this is how much my mom trusted me, where she let me decide what school I wanted to go to. She was not involved at all. And it was the same thing with picking my agent. We sat down, and Draymond was there. And, you know, Draymond was talking. We weren't really like— we weren't even paying him. We're like, Rich, what are we doing? Like, let's just sign. Like, we already know— we know what we're doing. We're family already. We're already past— we're at second base already. So let's just get it going. And everyone has them— like, when Klutch first started, everyone's like, oh, it's just LeBron's boy, and da da da da. And then all these other agents who are not African American would use, would tell other African American potential clients, hey, you don't want to do, you don't want to sign with Klutch because it's all about LeBron or he's not gonna be investing in you. He's up LeBron's ass. He's not gonna care about you. And that's totally false. That's fake news. That's 100% a lie. People just say that because they were afraid of Rich, the same way the media's afraid of you. And it's just because they— nobody likes to change or a new wave. The new— no one likes a new media. Nobody likes anything like that. It's like everything in life. Like, they get mad at LeBron for leaving Cleveland. Michael Jordan stayed in Chicago all these years. Everyone— there's not a blueprint, and no one— nothing in life, none of these categories in life, there's a blueprint. Everyone writes their own script. And for Rich, what he was able to do, I believed in from day one. And as Clutch continued to grow, then you came and joined the family. Other guys came and joined because it's only so long that these older 60-year-old agents can just hate. And there's only so many times you could use that, he cares about LeBron or do it. Like, it's only so much you can use that. And you're like, you know what, bro? You don't even come to my games. You just wait for me to come to LA and you come to my game against the Lakers and Clippers. You're not even coming to the games in OKC. Like, All these agents, they just, they do, they just want their 4%. They just want their cut. And Rich was different. Like, he was invested, texted me after games. Let's watch the film. You gotta get the floaters up earlier. You gotta do this. Like, and that's the, and when you're picking people to have in your, in your team and, and building out your professional tribe, you want people that are gonna always be real with you, hold you accountable, and, and, and love you for who you are, not love you for what you could provide for them. Mm-hmm.

Facts. Facts. That's a fact, man. I've gotten the opportunity, I've known Rich for much longer than I've been signed with Clutch, but I've gotten the opportunity to see that as well. Like, you know what's crazy? And you just mentioned it. One of the things that actually like was the stamp on me switching to Clutch, like I knew it was something I wanna do. I'm like, yo, I think this is something I wanna do. And then I just start like floating the idea around a little bit though. Like floating it to a few different people, a few different agents. And when I saw how agents was speaking about him to me, I'm talking about I had agents like, some agents cursed me out. Like, like, that's fucking ridiculous.

Yeah.

How dare you sign with him? How could you even mention me and him in the same sentence? Like, now mind you, this is 2016, '17. Like, this ain't, This ain't too long ago.

It's like, you know, it's right there. It's like right, you know, it's like—

5, 6 years ago. This ain't a long time. Don't mention my name in the same sentence. But, and when I start hearing things like that, I said, "Oh, that's the guy I'm supposed to be with for sure." Like, if you feel that you need to speak about this man like that, and y'all doing the same job, and you need to speak about him like that, That's the guy I need to be with because you're afraid of him. And if you're afraid, you actually know more about this agency business than me. You're that afraid of him? That's the guy I need to be with. And I figured that out, like, and it's continued to grow. And now the world knows, right? Like, now it's on Front Street. You can't deny it. But for so long, that was denied. Like, I mean, it was constantly thrown. Yeah. And that brings me to a question that I actually wanted to ask you. In 2015, you held out. You didn't go to training camp. You were up for a contract extension and you held out. You eventually end up getting the contract you wanted. We actually signed the same exact deal.

Good thing you signed 82. Good thing you signed 82, 'cause I was like, yo, I'm all done too.

Signed the same exact contract.

Yeah.

But in doing that, I know that you had to trust Rich, like in going through that process, you had to trust him. But what I wanted to ask you was, in 2015, when you were going through them contract extension, do you think being a part of Clutch and the stigma that it had, did it hurt you or did it help you? And the reason that I'll explain why I'm asking this question is because, everyone would try to say, man, you were Cleveland. LeBron's in Cleveland, so Rich can get any deal he wants in Cleveland, right? I happen to believe that's false. I actually think it works against you, but that's just my opinion. But I wanna know from your vantage point, you're going through it, do you think being with Clutch at that point helped you in your negotiations or were they actually trying to use it against you?

They were using it against me. And I think, Listen, if I didn't, if I wasn't with Clutch, I would've probably ended up signing maybe a deal similar like Marquise signed. I think it was like a, it was like a 4-year, but it was like 80 a year, maybe the mid-level or, because even I, I remember at the, at the deadline, cuz you know what, I think it was like October 30th is the deadline.

Yeah.

If you wanna get the extension. Right. And I remember they came back to us at 4 years, 52, the Rubio deal, what Rubio got. And I, and I, I remember we just played the Bulls and I had 60, I had 16 rebounds, and 14 of them were offensive rebounds.

That's crazy. Yeah.

And that's when the Bulls had Pau Gasol, Joe Kim in them. So the game's over. We play— it's an ESPN game. Rich calls me, and he says, it's 4 years, $52 million. And really, to be honest, most agents would have said, son, take the deal. And you know how they talk to us like we're kids. Son, take the deal. It's a big deal. I represented Mr. Durant. I represented Al Harrington, and he only had a— 4 years, $32 million, or I represented, uh, Jermaine O'Neal, his second deal, and it was only, uh, $52 million. Like, they try to sun us because they think we don't know better and they think we're just idiots. So I'm on the phone with Rich and he says, man, 4 years, $52 million, what do you want to do? And I said, what do you think? He said, well, do you think you're going to get better this season? I said, yeah. He said, well, then why don't we take the deal? I said, all right, but then we're not taking the deal then. So, but most people So the fact when I was holding out, people were using that against me, almost saying like, Rich is uneducated, or Rich is over his head, or Rich don't know what he's talking about. But those people that were talking shit was because they had their insecurities because they know they couldn't do better. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

Yeah, and listen, it got to a point when they called, when Rich calls you with the 5-year 82, At first I said no because prior to that, when we have our meeting at the end of the season, that's the year when you guys won the first championship.

Mm-hmm.

When Kyrie broke his kneecap. At the end of that, we did like almost like an exit meeting and Rich said, you know, we want the max. But if anybody asks you, say you want the max. So the max back then was 5 years, $90. But what Kawhi got with the Spurs. So in my head I was so, and if you talk to Rich, I was so into that mode where whenever I saw somebody, they'd be like, What are you holding out for? Chris Milton just got 5-year, 70. I said, no, I'm going for the max. Like, I remember even coaches would call me, like, coaches that we know. And you'd be like, man, he really called you trying to get a feel for it? I remember a coach called me, and he's like, you're not going to take this deal that Cleveland offered you at 70 or 75? I said, no, I want the max. Max only, or leave it alone, or don't call me. And I was so locked into that maximum. When Rich called me, he's like, 5-year deal? Nah, Max. He's like, no, no, Double G. That was just part of it. To get the number up. To get the number up. We out. We at the penthouse now. We at the Pearly Gates now. Just gotta take the deal. So having a guy like Ritz, the media would almost say he's over his head, but really it's because he knew the market. He knew the game. And at the end of the day, it's could Cleveland find a replacement for Tristan Thompson? And the answer was no. So what Rich always said to Dan Gilbert is, what's the cost of winning a championship? Is winning a championship worth $82 million? And Dan sat there and he said, yeah, we gotta pay. We gotta pay. We gotta raise tickets. Rich said, figure it out. Raise ticket prices, raise parking, figure it out. But you'll make it up somehow. It's no different than what you were Golden State. And I always tell people this and people will say, well, Draymond Green did that. Listen. There is no Draymond Green walking through that Golden State door. That's why they had to pay the 82. And guess what? They paid 82. And then when they gave you the extension, the 4 years, 100, they had to do that because guess what? You guys were in a position at that moment. You guys were in a position where you guys were just in the finals. Everyone is still in their prime. Steph is still playing at a high level. You have to keep competing. You can't go from being in the finals to now just being in a lottery. And you just built a new arena and you spent billions of dollars. You have to stay competitive. So you have to bring your glue guy back. It's no different than Marcus Smart. People say, why did Marcus Smart get that extension? You have to. When the guys are at their peak and playing at a high level and competing for a championship, and when the city has that expectation and, and the media's created that, you have to keep paying the players. You gotta pay to play, baby. You gotta pay to play. Absolutely. And that's why you got your deals. And listen, if you're not on the Golden State Warriors, there's no— there's none of those 4 chips. There's none of those rings. Those 4 rings don't exist if you're not on that team. And I tell everyone that every single day because that's the god honest truth. And listen, even Game 7, you had 32 points. You led the game in scoring. I think you led the team in scoring that game.

I did.

And I said, yeah, you led the game in scoring. So I'm saying, like, people got to understand that. It's building a team and these contracts, it's all about fit. Just because we got, just because I got 82 doesn't mean I'm gonna be, doesn't mean that if I was on the Raptors I would've got that or a different team.

Yeah.

Because at that right moment I fit that puzzle piece and that's what it costs.

Absolutely. And, and I think another thing, and another thing that people don't understand is this, the Cleveland Cavaliers, because they had your bird rights, could actually pay you that $82 million. Whereas opposed to if you wanted to go to another team, they would have to use salary cap space to pay you that $82 million. Cleveland can pay you whatever they want to pay you because they have your bird rights. They can go into the luxury tax and pay you. However, what people don't understand about this situation is because they are in a luxury tax, if they let you walk, they can't just go sign someone else. With that money because they then don't have that person's bird rights. So what they could then sign because they're in the tax is a taxpayer mid-level, which is like $6.5, $7 million a year. Well, who are you getting for $6.5 million a year that's giving you the production Tristan Thompson is giving you? The answer is no one. And that's how you negotiate.

Exactly.

And that's— and hey, man, you did exactly what you're supposed to do. You got what you were supposed to get. And quite frankly, let's face it, y'all won the championship the next year.

And it was worth it. It's worth it. At the end of the day, it's worth it. When you look at it and you realize that we broke the 52-year curse, you look at all these deals, all the contracts, you're like, man, it's worth it. 'Cause business is business and we gotta take care of our business the same way they take care of their business. They don't mind a 7-game series 'cause they gonna make more money. And we don't— we're gonna fight for all our cheese and all our coins because guess what? When it's all said and done, When it's over, when basketball's over, you gonna wish you had that extra coins.

Absolutely, 100%. And that takes us from 2015 to the worst year of my life, other than DJ being born at the very end. As you know, Prince was born a week and a half before.

Yeah.

At the very end of 2016. And I also kind of, That's a story for another day. At the very end, at the very end of 2000—

Are you crazy? We can't give him everything all at once. We gotta run it part by part.

That's a story for another day. But at the very end of 2016, I was signed. But 2016 was treacherous for me. And so let's talk about it. 2016, we're in the NBA Finals. We're up 3 to 1. I get suspended from Game 5. But like, talk to me about y'all mindset. Like, you go down 3-1, you're coming back to go to state. What's the conversation like to even get y'all back to a mental space of like, we're down 3-1, we're going here for Game 5, we need to win. Talk to me about the conversations in that locker room.

I think what was key was like leading up to that, that Game 4 loss because Game 3 was in Cleveland. We won that game and Game 4 we lost to you guys in Cleveland making us down 3-1. But the way we lost that game was something very simple where you guys were running a 1-2 pick and roll with Klay and Steph and, and Klay would keep slipping and it was Kyrie and JR. Kyrie and JR was the matchup on, on, on Klay and Steph.

Mm-hmm.

And they kept slipping and Kyrie and, and, and JR, I guess something, the miscommunication was off. So it wasn't where, so like, we felt like we beat ourselves that game just because we weren't, the lack of communication with those slip outs. And you guys basically started a whole trend with these slip out screens, right? So, so we felt, so I remember after that game, Bronson, the text, I'm like, you know, like, we're right there. Like, listen, don't come on the plane if you don't think we can come back and win this, win this, win this series. 'Cause we felt like even though we lost game 4, we felt like we could, it was a winnable game.

Mm-hmm.

It was something that we, it was self-inflicted wounds where we felt like, okay, we can, we can do this. So going into game 5, now our mentality was like, listen, we know how long that flight is. We know these boys do not wanna come back to Cleveland. They do not wanna come back to Cleveland. Nobody wants to take a 6-hour flight from San Fran all the way back to Cleveland, Ohio to play a basketball game. So we said, listen, If we win Game 5, this is going 7 games. And the reason why we believed in that was because during that time, I believe Iggy's back was hurt. His back was hurt.

Mm-hmm.

I remember we actually had practice. We did a little snooping too. We had practice at your guys' court. We walked in and whoever your trainer was at the time had all your guys' names down with all your guys' injuries. And I remember you, you were on like, you were on a bunch of medicine. You were on like ibuprofen. You were on a bunch of shit. I was like, I'm like, man, you're like on 4 medications. Then you see Iggy's back. You see Klay's. Remember Klay had the sleeve on his calf.

Yeah.

So his calf was acting up. So we said, oh, these guys are breaking down. These guys are breaking down. So if we can, if we can get Game 5, we don't, we know mentally, 'cause you know, basketball's a, it becomes like in the playoffs, it's all a mental thing.

Absolutely.

So we're like mentally, these boys do not want to come back to Cleveland for a Game 6. Absolutely not. So if we can get Game 5, we could push this to 7th. 'Cause we know we can win at home. We're at home. We know we win it at home. So that was our mindset. And Bron, who's the leader he is, he said, don't come on this plane unless you could believe we could come back. And sure enough, everyone showed up. We believed that. And you know, obviously Timu talks about a story about putting a $100 bill up in, in, in, in the vents and we'll come back and get it. And so once we win Game 5, you know, Kyrie, Bron both have 40, right?

Yeah.

So that's crazy. And the finishes that Kyrie had, I think he had the and-1. With the lefty layup and one, like, from, I think it was like either Rupert O'Callaghan or something. Yeah. I was like, that stuff that Kyrie could do with his wrist game, it was just like crazy. So, so now we're at Game 7 and, and we just believed in each other. We just believed in each other. And obviously we knew that you guys had injuries and, you know, obviously without you in the game, which helped us a lot, you know, you getting suspended, that was huge. And obviously we started noticing Steph getting frustrated, you know, with the throwing of the mouthpiece. So, We noticed those little mental, 'cause you know, like those are, those are mental errors. Like, you know that you can't do that stuff, but we saw, okay, these a little, these a little chess pieces. Like mentally they're, they're getting frustrated. You know what I'm saying? And I would be frustrated too if I'm up 3-1 and, and it's like the game, Larry O'Brien's right there. So those little chess pieces of your guys' frustration let us know we had a chance still, which helped us believe even more. So that's kind of like, it was like a mental game at that point for us. 'Cause the basketball, we, we, we could figure out, you know what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm.

But we knew mentally you guys were getting frustrated and you guys were actually banged up or hurt. So we said, okay, like, let's just keep applying the pressure and extend the series, you know?

Absolutely. It's crazy too. Remember Bogut was out with the rib. Yes, yes, yes. Bogut had a broken rib and he missed the game.

Mm-hmm.

We were beat up.

Yeah.

And then obviously the suspension was what it was. But you know, you guys come back and you come back You win the 2016 championship, which was huge for y'all, for yourself, but also in NBA history, like, was huge. I'm actually not mad about that at all because then we come back in 2017 and we got Kevin Durant. What's the thinking then? Like, what's the thinking? We come back next year with Kevin Durant.

Man, I— when you guys came back with Kevin Durant, I said, I said, these guys are out of control. I said, I was joking around. I'm like, man, these guys sold their soul to the devil. How the hell you guys pull this off? I said, how do these guys pull this off? You guys are 73-9. You lose in the finals. And you get Kevin Durant. That's the gift you get? I mean, that's not a bad trade. Two champions. You give up one championship to get two? That's kind of— we call that a deal. We call that a steal. We call that a steal. So that was actually a good trade-off that you guys did. So I appreciate that. Because I wanted my one ring. At least I got one, right?

No, absolutely. And by the way, most people don't know. Don't have that.

Yeah.

And no one's talking about, "Oh man, you're a one-time champion, four-time." When you get in the meat of it, you talk about that, you're a champion.

Exactly.

We talk about resumes coming on the Draymond, you're a champion.

Yeah, exactly.

We ain't buying none of that. But, and speaking of, you just spoke about LeBron and his leadership. Mario Chalmers recently said nobody feared LeBron.

That shit pisses me off, bro. That shit pisses me off, man. Like, you know what I don't like? It's like people will, like, if I play, like, the fact that Mario Chalmers, at one point, you were probably texting LeBron to get on the team and get a job. So, so 'cause he couldn't get you a job or get you on a team— and I'm— listen, I'm just assuming. I'm not saying that's what it is. I'm just saying, listen, when you play with certain players and you get a point in your career where things are tough, you're going to make a call. Yo, look out for me, or see what you could do. Just because you might not have got your way, like, how can you say that about a guy that you went to war with, who believed in you? There was times where D-Wade was on your ass chewing you up. Chris Bosh was chewing your ass. LeBron would always push Mario to be better, push him to be, you know, talk great about him to the media, said all these great things about you. And then you're going to come and say no one fears LeBron? Like, this is the best player you've ever been on the court with. How are you going to say that no one fears— first of all, Miami LeBron is the most scariest LeBron we've ever seen in our life.

That part.

You know what I'm saying? Like, that LeBron was— he was like 290, running a 4-4 and jumping over John Lucas and stuff. Like, that was athleticism at a whole nother level. Like, how can you say that? And that just shows you that, like, man, like, guys be on some sucker shit. And I don't like that kind of stuff because it's just like, bro, like, why you start switching up? Like you said about earlier, how guys get in media and they act like they never sat in the locker room. OK, now guys are retired or not playing basketball. Now you want to talk shit about a guy that you won a championship with. I would never— talk bad about any of my teammates that I've won a championship with. I would never even fix my mouth because me and you went to war and we accomplished something that's after family and kids and God, winning a championship is probably the next best thing in life. You know what I'm saying? Like winning NBA championships. So the fact that you do that and you come out and talk about that man after he just, you know, got the scoring record and he's in year— 16. 20 and like, come on, bro. Like, really? And it's just like, if your own people talk shit about you, then now you know why people talk bad about you. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

We are the people, like myself, any of Bron's teammates, we can't be the ones to talk bad about Bron because then it further fuels the fire for all these other people that have hate for our brother. And I have hate for our family member that will talk shit about him. So we can't, from within, can't talk shit. Because if we talk shit, then all of them, you know, they're going to know there's a weakness in the tribe. So like, the fact that he did that, like, it's like, bro, like, that's not cool. Like, I don't respect guys that do that kind of stuff. That's not the way I operate. I've never talked bad about none of my teammates, especially when I win a championship with. You know what I'm saying? And it's not like you guys had beef or issue. Mm-hmm.

No, I respect it. And one thing I respect is how you ride for Bron, because I catch a lot of flack for the way I ride for Bron. And you know, people will say like, "Oh man, you said this about LeBron. That's disrespectful to Steph." And it's like, actually, the love that I got for Steph and how I ride for Steph, Steph knows how I ride for Steph. And Steph know I got the love.

Right.

Like me, Me giving credit to LeBron or supporting LeBron or fucking being happy for LeBron, that doesn't dim Steph's light. Like, you know, I always tell, like, think about it and tell people like, that's your losing ass mentality that you think if I go say something about this, if I go say something about LeBron James that's positive, that it's dimming Steph's light. That don't dim Steph's light at all. Just like if— If I go say something about Steph, that's not dimming LeBron's light.

No, at all.

But that's the— and I agree with you and what you're saying is, but that's the mindset they want us to have. I always like compare it to slavery where they try to turn us against each other. You know, where it's like, no, it has to be one or the other. It can't be Steph. Steph can't be great and LeBron can't be great or stuff like that. Like, I hate that. And so I agree with you 100%. We have to ride for each other because at the end of the day, it's all we got. Like, you know, everybody always talk about like, oh, it's this basketball fraternity, NBA fraternity. Like, man, that shit is fake. Like, guys do not support how they say they gonna support. They do not look out how they say they gonna look out. None of that. But the ones that you do have in your corner, and that's one thing that I can really appreciate about Clutch as a whole, the guys that you do have in your corner, man, you gotta ride for, you gotta ride with. And I disagree with Mario's statement from the standpoint of obviously, like you just said, it's your teammate. You know what I'm saying? That's the guy you went to war with. That's the guy you won championships with. And like, don't get me wrong, you had to carry your own. Like Mario was a damn good player, so I ain't taking nothing from him. But on the flip side, like, bro,— I personally know people that were scared of LeBron James. So I just, I all out just disagree. Yeah. Because I know a bunch of people that were and still are, in fact, terrified of LeBron James. Like, I've seen it. At times I've had teammates that was terrified of LeBron James. Like, and so I just didn't really understand I just really didn't understand the statement. I got a lot of love for Mario. You know, he's super tight with B. Rush. B. Rush was one of my OGs.

Yeah, one of your vets, yeah.

Yeah. I just didn't— I didn't understand.

I was very shocked. I was taken aback. And listen, you know, people might be having bad days, so you never know what someone's going through. But I was very— I was disappointed because, you know, like you said, it's a former teammate of yours. There's no personal issues between you guys. There's no hate. It's not like you guys had a back and forth on Twitter. It's just like, it came out of left field. It's disappointing. Disappointing.

No, for sure. I agree.

Yeah.

Uh, and also, and speaking of that, um, you recently were on ESPN, which I want to get into, but you were recently on ESPN and you spoke about LeBron and Kyrie getting back together. Um, do you see that happening? Do you think, like, do you Do you think that there's a chance, or not a chance, we know there's a chance, but do you think that happens, that they get back together?

Man, brother, I've been—

And on top of that, what do you think ultimately made it go south?

Yeah, brother, I've been pushing that reuniting, you know, coming together for so long because I saw the, But with Kyrie and LeBron, it was almost like a match made in heaven. Like, they brought the best out of each other. It was like the things that Kyrie does great is different than what LeBron did great. Like, it was just such a beautiful— like, it was beautiful to watch the two-man game side pick and roll because they're so dynamic and great at so many different things. But together, it's like they're like— it was almost like almost unstoppable. Like, it was like an amazing two-on-two, you know what I'm saying? So—

Absolutely.

I think in terms of, you know, could it happen? Yes. Will I continue pushing it when I'm on TV? Most definitely, because I think Kyrie brings the best out of LeBron, and LeBron does the same thing, brings the best out of Kyrie. And I feel like it's almost like a story that— it almost feels like it wasn't finished. It wasn't finished the way it was supposed to, you know what I'm saying? And a lot of duels have had that. Maybe Shaq and Penny, or Kobe and Shaq. You know, there's so many, like, stories that I just feel like it's not over yet. You know, like, there's still—

Mm-hmm.

There's still a couple more chapters between them two that they can make some magic happen. So, you know, I hope it can happen. To answer your second question, you know, what went south, I think, like in sports, you know, everyone goes through different things. And I think during that time and period, I think, you know, maybe something with the front office and Kyrie. Maybe didn't see eye to eye, you know, maybe we could have did a better job of addressing whatever he may have wanted because at the end of the day, he deserves a right to have a say in the organization. Like, you know, like you—

Mm-hmm.

It's nothing wrong asking for something. You know, he earned the respect and the right, and he put that banner up there. He can come into the office and ask for something. Whether it happens or not, that's to be determined because I don't own the team. I don't make those calls, but I think we could have, as a franchise, might have figured out a way to make it work or dedicated more time to try to make it work. I feel like we might have rushed the trade a little bit, especially with the fact with, with, with IT. I love IT. He's a great human being. I love IT. That's my dog. You know, with him coming, going, being injured.

Mm-hmm.

I was, I was told that, you know, if a player's injured, you could kind of void the trade.

Yeah, you can.

Yeah. So, so for me, it was more so of a sense where like, if he's technically not cleared or that hip is not all the way right, why are we in such a rush to make this trade? Because we still have Kyrie under contract and Kyrie loves the game of basketball. I mean, look at with the Nets, there was times where he probably hated being there, but he still went on the court and he proved himself. And to be honest, he probably— he's probably been frustrated with that Nets organization for the last 2 years. But guess what? Those last 20 games with Nets, he looked like an MVP caliber player. They were going— I think they were like 12-4 or something. And they had great road wins against top teams. Like, so one thing, Mokari, he's a hooper. He's gonna buy in and play. If he's happy or not, we don't know the answer, but he's a hooper. He's gonna go and play. And— And with the business of basketball, if you're a signature line player, you get royalties. You're not gonna get the royalty check if you sit on the sideline. So he's gonna play. He wants to be an All-Star. Like, I just felt like the franchise might have not handled it, maybe rushed it a little bit.

Yeah.

We could have took a better time. But you know, that happens. You know, I hope, you know, I love Kyrie. I love LeBron. I would love to see them together in purple and gold. I'm sure you wouldn't mind seeing that. It would be some good TNT games, ESPN games you guys would have. —be some good ESPN TV.

Absolutely.

Golden State versus LA. It'd be a good one.

No, I'm definitely not against that. We had, as you know, you being a part of it, we had some of the best battles in NBA history. Not just of our time. We had some of the best battles in NBA history. Obviously that Game 7 being probably one of the most classic games the NBA has ever seen. Yeah. To have those battles, as you know, to play in those games, like that's, that, those are the games that bring the best outta you. It's the Tuesdays against the terrible teams that I'm like, man, y'all can have this shit. Like—

Oh man. Oh, I tell people a soft Tuesday is where you catch us slipping. A soft Tuesday in Detroit. I'm like, man, I know you from Michigan. I know you from Michigan. And when you come home, you like to have a big game. I know every time, every time you play against the Pistons, they always talk about you on the Pistons airway and they try to get you in a trade. They try to trade for you to bring you home. I had to get it. But like, Cleveland Cavaliers versus Detroit Pistons on a soft Tuesday, man, Detroit, y'all can have that shit. Like, I don't want to be there. I'm ready to get home. So I, I, I get it. But yes, those game 7s that we get up for, like, like, and then you would agree there's certain players in our league that are regular season players and there's certain players that are playoff players. And I believe myself and you, we're playoff players. We, we, we, we are, we are in the game when it counts and when it matters because you've seen a lot of guys that, have great regular seasons and then when it gets to the playoffs, man, they tuck their tail and it goes, it goes, they go from, they go from sugar to shit.

That part. Yo, so speaking of the purple and gold, I got a couple more questions. I'm gonna get you outta here.

Yeah.

You recently just had a workout with the Lakers. Everything that I've heard from reports to talking to people, I have a bunch of relationships around this league. Like, everyone came back, like, talking about the shape that you're in. Like, how great of shape at your age, at having not playing basket— having not played all this year, but how great of shape you in. Like, speak to us about the workout and, like, just what you went in there and showed. And are you expecting that to come to fruition? Yeah.

Yeah, you know, I'm praying every day that, you know, that it comes to fruition. You know, I've been doing 2-a-days all season. You know, it's very easy for guys that are not playing to sit back and relax. But for me, it's— I'm so used to— I'm a routine type of person. I'm a routine guy. So for me, it was like, you know, I'm always going to stay ready and stay right because when that phone call rings, I need to be ready because I want to prove to the world and prove to these teams that, Listen, I can still play at a high level. Like, I'm watching these bigs and these backup bigs, and I'm like, I will kick his ass. I will— I'll play this guy. But, you know, for whatever reasons that, you know, my phone never rang, it is what it is. And I can't control that, right? I'm not in position of that. All I could do is stay ready, be a pro. And when I came to the Lakers workout, you know, I wanted to make sure I was in better shape than I've ever been. And I made sure I had my shirt off on purpose. I had my shirt off the whole workout. I got there an hour early, like I was going to practice, because in practice, During season, I'd get there an hour early. I did my warmups. I got a little activation in. I was on the court, got my touch beforehand, 'cause I wanted to make sure with this workout, I left it all on the floor. Because listen, there's only opportunity so much in life. I'm not gonna let an opportunity like that slip because of something, 'cause a lack of preparation from me. You know what I'm saying?

Right.

And that's part of being a pro. I'm gonna prepare myself like this is all or nothing. You know what I'm saying? 100%. So when it came to that Lakers workout, I made sure I was in great shape, dunking the ball, windmilling. But I was doing stuff where I was like, Bron, Bron, the center, like, man, OTI, I ain't see this since Cleveland. I'm like, yeah, because I'm ready. Like, fucking ready, bro. Like, I'm ready. Like, I'm ready to make this happen. I'm ready to help you guys make this push. And I feel like what I can bring to the table to help that team is an area that I think they don't have right now. And I think—

Yeah.

With a team that like, like the Lakers that are trying to make a run, I think you always, especially at the center position, you need a guy that's gonna be great at what he does, be a star in his role. And for me, one thing you know you're gonna get is some good-ass screens.

Yeah.

A motherfucker who's an offensive rebound, play hard, switch 1 through 5 and compete. And then in the playoffs, those little things like a good screen can get a guy open, get a guy like D'Angelo open, get him going, get him hot. Uh, offensive rebound. Haven't scored in 4 minutes. You get offensive rebound, keep the possession alive, deflating to the defense, wear down the defense. You know what I'm saying? Or loose ball, an offensive rebound, loose ball foul. But a guy in foul, uh, foul trouble, a big that can switch 1 through 5 where if a team's going small like you guys, I can switch on the Steph. I can switch on to Wiggins. I can switch on to, to, to, to, to, to Clay. You need a big that could do those things because all those little things matter. In a playoff setting because every possession counts. And I know what I can— I know what I'm great at. I'm not saying I'm coming to Lakers to come shoot corner 3. No, I'mma— you guys know what you're gonna get. And in the locker room, I'm gonna be a guy that's gonna hold everyone accountable. And because you have new guys that are younger and you kind of have the veterans with AD and Bron, I can be like that middle guy that could kind of unite everyone together because I know D-Lo, I know those young guys on a per— I know Vanderbilt. I know those guys on a personal level, spent time with them. But I also, you know, AD and Bron are my brothers. I can be that guy to continue to gel and bring that unity. And that's what I can bring to the table to that team.

I know what you bring to a team. I personally think this Lakers team is very good. I've actually, for 2 years, everybody would talk about the Lakers and I say, well, they got LeBron James and Anthony Davis. They already got a chance. And now they've traded for these other guys. Like they're a real team now. So no disrespect, my brother, but I personally hope they leave you at home because I know, I know, I know what you bring to the table. I know. How you help a team, like all of those things you just mentioned is what win you championships. And so the impact that that will have on that team, like I, people can say what they want, talking heads can talk, they are a serious threat in the West right now.

Mm-hmm.

Talk about the record all you want, they just gotta get in. They get in, they a serious threat in the West. And so I'mma just tell you straight right here on Draymond Green Show, So there's a hope that you do not sign with the Lakers, my friend. But I would tell you this though. The other day we played Houston and you're talking about a team that doesn't have a single vet on the team. And so like, I look at a guy like yourself where you like, "My phone didn't ring." And then I asked the question, Houston didn't even, like Houston didn't call? What you can bring to even that locker room. See, we always look at it and we like, and that's the competitiveness in us, but that's also this business, which is like, if I'm gonna bring a vet in, it has to be a championship team. Now, at this point in career, probably only wanna go to a championship team. But in saying that, like, a team like Houston, they got young talent, man. Draymond Green, Jabari Smith Jr., like the list goes on. Tari Eason. I'm a big fan of Tari Eason.

Yeah, he plays his ass off. He plays his ass off.

I like him a lot. KJ. They don't have any vets. And you look at a guy like yourself who's been through the wringer, true professional, true professional champion, understands it all. And it's like, what are they doing? You know what I'm saying? Like you ask yourself the question and not what are they doing drafting, because I think they're drafting well.

Yeah.

But who's teaching these guys habits?

Yes. And, and that brings back to what you said at the beginning. If you start playing basketball at a young age, you draft these young kids and listen, I think they're drafting well and they're drafting good players, but it's like anything, how are these kids gonna learn how to be pros and how to win meaningful basketball games if you just throw them out there? They need vets where they can— vets that first of all they respect, that actually have a resume and that can actually go out there and, and lead by example. We're not saying, we're not saying bring in vets and, and start them, but you gotta put some vets in where they could play 10 to 15 minutes so the young guys can see. Like, if the young guys are bullshitting, you pull 'em out, put some vets in, they see, and they're like, "Oh, wow. This is how you do it." And that's the problem with our league. And I started to notice that about, like, maybe about 4 years ago is when they stopped— they stopped bringing vets. Like, these teams that are, like, at the bottom, they stopped bringing vets in, and they just rather— I think a lot of teams are hoping to find that hidden gem, which I get, because there's a lot of guys that, like, the Manu Ginobli's of the world, or Isaiah Thomas, the last pick of the draft. A lot of teams wanna take chances with these young guys to hopefully find the next gem. But in order for these young kids to blossom to be the pro that you envision them to be when you draft them, they gotta have some guidance.

Mm-hmm.

That's why a team like Sacramento for a long time struggled because they didn't have the right vets. But it was, you know what, they brought Mike Brown, who, who, who's, who, you know how Mike Brown, I, I played with him for one year in Cleveland. He was my coach. He was with you. For, for, for some time in Golden State where, you know, he's a film guy. He's gonna drill it. He's gonna drill it. He's gonna drill it until you understand, you know what I'm saying? And that's what that franchise needed. And now you see them playing at a higher level. They didn't do nothing great. Like they brought Sabonis and like, okay, but look at the record when they made a trade for Sabonis, uh, last year, the record wasn't good. They were probably even worse, you know?

Mm-hmm.

But, but they brought a leader in, in Mike Brown who instilled his, his, his, his his fundamentals and his philosophy. And even though his film session might be 2 hours, you're gonna understand this, you know, you're gonna understand this. You are gonna do all these pick and rolls and you're gonna hedge, you're gonna be in a deep drop. You're gonna do these drills for so long and be pissed off. But guess what? It can lead to wins. And that's why that team is playing at a higher level. So these young, these young teams, you think they gotta, you gotta bring vets. You gotta have a little mixture of both. It's the only way that you, you're gonna, accelerate the process of hopefully having that team go from a lottery to being competitive.

Absolutely, man. Last question. I appreciate you. This has been incredible. You're insightful, you're smart as shit, and you're not afraid to hear your own voice or not afraid to say anything. I love it. I know everybody gonna love this interview. It's incredible.

It's gonna be a good one.

You've been on ESPN lately. Is that what you plan to do, like, when you're done? Is it coaching? Is it— or is this something you're just testing out? Or is it coaching? Is it GM? Because I know you're gonna wanna stay around the game. You love basketball too much.

Yeah, no, I love basketball. You know, talking to Rich, it's a good problem to have in terms of you can almost— because of, you know, the resume and me being articulate and knowing the game of basketball and having relationships, I can almost pick out of the three where I could be like, go into coaching, or you want to do front office, or you want to do TV. And for me, you know, doing the ESPN stuff, I love it. I love media. I love talking about sports because it makes me feel so attached to the game where it's authentic. You know, like, when it comes to front office stuff, it's a tough— it's a slippery slope because you got to— I mean, We mean you alike, where in terms of like, if I'm in the front office, I'm assistant GM or I'm a scout, and the guy that's ahead of me is a dumbass, and I have to sit there and just look at him and just like, I can't fake it. I'm not going to fake this. Front office is a tough thing, where it's like, for me, if I was going to go front office, it'd have to be a situation where I either know the GM or the president, and we like see eye to eye. You know what I'm saying? Like, we understand.

Absolutely.

Like, I respect you, and you know what's going on. Fake the funk to be under a guy that was a media guy or doesn't have no basketball experience. So for me, like, that's one reason why I was like, ah, I don't know. I'm not too sure about front office. Coaching, you know, coaching is great, but it takes a lot of time away from family. You know, it takes a lot. And think about this. When we have— if you have shootaround at 10:00, we'll show up at 9:00, but the coaches be there at 8:00 for coaches meeting. This is a little tough. This is a little tough, buddy.

It's tough.

Don't get me wrong. It's not about the money, but I said, you know, like, I've had so much time with my kids right now, and my kids are of age where they're growing up. Like, I kind of want to be around that. So like, media is almost like that perfect balance because it's— the hours are not as hectic as the NBA. And it's still staying involved with the game. And media is growing. The new media is growing. It's growing at a high level. And it's like, you know, they're going to need more guys like us.

Yeah.

You know, obviously, you're still playing at a high level. You're still playing. So— and you're doing your podcast, which is basically— You keep your toe in there. So I love that you're doing that. But for me right now, it's like, yeah, I love the ESPN. I love doing it. It's fun. It's good to get after it. And it's something that I really want to continue to explore if I'm not playing no more. Of course, playing is number one. That's why I stay in shape. If I didn't care about playing, I might have looked like some other retired guys that be looking like— They go from skinny to thick, like big like this. I'm like, holy— I was like, shit, you haven't played for 2 years. That's how big you got. Like, jeez. So of course, you know, if I'm not on the court, I would love to continue doing media, whether, you know, ESPN. I have to give a shout out to them for— thanking them for giving me the opportunity. I loved it. I had a great time. And, you know, hopefully I can continue doing the media stuff while I'm, you know, while I'm not playing.

No, it's great, bro. I've watched you. Like I said, you're very insightful. You're very smart, like, and you're candid, and I love it. Not that I'm some guru, I just see what I see on TV, and you like what you like, you like what you don't, you know what you don't like. And I think you have a very bright future in it because, like I said, and most importantly, you care. Like, you can tell when you're speaking, you care about what's going on. So I thank you, bro. Thank you. Coming on the podcast. This has been one of the best shows we've had. And last but not least, before we get outta here, let's talk to these people about you punching me.

Oh my God. I thought we was gonna go into that. Listen, man, listen, all that to the phone, but listen, that was in the past. Listen, you know what? You know, it's so funny because like, you know, like when we in the finals, bro, it got after because listen, me and you are both, we're both the glue guys. We're the muscle for our team. So, you know, obviously, you know, shit happened in the past, but it's stupid. Like, you know, I'm like, man, we so past that. It was just, it was a crazy night at Delilah. Fucking Delilah. Delilah and tequila.

Delilah and tequila. Hey y'all, I go up to Double T. I tell Rich, this is how this happened. I tell Rich, I'm like, Rich, I should just go over there and fucking punch him right now. Rich and Mav like, no chance you doing that. We've worked way too hard to get here. That story is gonna tear us all down. No chance you doing that. What you gonna do is you're gonna go over there, you're gonna talk to him, y'all gonna talk it out, and we gonna move forward. I'm like, that's bullshit. I'm gonna go over here and I'm gonna punch him. They like, okay. You do that shit if you want to, we gonna have a problem. So after about 30 minutes, I'm like, "All right, Rich." And he just keep telling me like, "You ready yet? You gonna go talk yet?" Like, I'm like, "No." So finally I'm like, "All right, Rich, I'll go talk." I go up to Double T, like, "Hey, bro, what's up, bro? I'm just coming to holla." Dog charged me. Charged right at me. Now mind you, It's Delilah, tequila, drinks, floor slippery as hell. Some dude charge at me. I'm sliding back.

Yeah, the tables are getting pushed. People are screaming. People are grabbing me. I'm like, man, what the— we were just so lit. I was like, man— but guess what? The good thing is that we made up that night, and we had some more shots. We had a great night. And even though I lost my 2-carat diamond earrings, Good thing I had him insured. Insurance dropped me after, but it's all good. It's all good.

Oh! So there y'all have it. There you go, people. My brother Double T, I appreciate you, brother.

My brother, thank you for having me. I'm super proud of you. Best of luck the rest of the season. Keep doing your thing. Don't let nobody ever change you, even though I know that's not gonna happen, because you as stubborn as a fucking— as a fucking nail. So I know that's not gonna change. So keep doing your thing. Thank you for having me on your show. Hopefully— Everyone's gonna enjoy it, love it, and we keep the good times going.

I appreciate you, my brother. Thank you for coming on the show. What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward.