Ty Lue on LeBron's Cavs, Kobe & Shaq Lakers, Kawhi & Clippers | Draymond Green & Baron Davis

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show with my dawg BD.

What's up my bro?

Chilling bro. Before we get into this episode, please subscribe to the Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis so you don't miss any episodes.

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And as we get into today's episode, I told y'all therapy works. And you know, I've been through a lot in my life, a lot in my career. And to bring this, this guy on with some of the wrong he's done in my life is a big step for me in my journey. But today's guest, he's an 11-year NBA veteran, 2-time NBA champion as a player. He is an NBA champion as a coach, which we do not want to talk about here. He's one of the best coaches in the league for sure, bar none, I got a lot of respect for, quite honestly, um, one of the coaches I hate playing against, and we'll get into that a little bit. We have our little banter. I talk junk to him, but none other coach of the Los Angeles Clippers, T-Lou. What's happening, Lou?

My guy, what's happening? What's up, coach? What's up, coach? Look at my dog. My dog is the coach, you know what I mean? We came in the league together. You got all them gray hairs.

20, 21 years old and I'm here coaching now. That's 26 years later, I'm coaching. Like, I would never thought I'd be coaching, man. But it's been a blessing. You know, the game of basketball, like I said, it's been a blessing for all of us. And then just to, you know, turn the chapter from being a player to being a coach, man, it's really put me in a great position. Like I said, basketball is everything, you know? So. You know, I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't play ball, like I said, or if I wasn't coaching.

So it's everything, man. Just, you know, just to speak about coaching, you know what I mean? You know, you one of the best coaches in the league, man. You're an NBA champion. And I would like to kick the show off by talking about, let's get into this Cavs-Warriors situation. And is this the first time y'all ever talked about this?

Yeah, that's crazy. Come on.

Sorry, Dray, come on. You know that was coming.

Listen, the amount of—

That was a fastball.

The amount of times I see T-Lou, like I see T-Lou at private events. We are part of the same family. Like, and like we've never spoke about this. And the fact that we starting this podcast and that's what you wanna talk about.

Man, I'm on one today.

Y'all could have took Draymond Green out of the show today. This just could have been the Baron Davis show today. If that's what you wanted to start this, this show off talking about it. But since you want to talk about it, let's talk about it then. I got something to say too.

Let's talk about it. Uh, T-Lou, were you worried the first two games? Especially the last time y'all saw the Warriors in the finals, they won the last three games. And then Draymond, you can talk about, you know, in the finals how y'all felt the first two games. But You know, Coach, walk us through this series, you know, what was the mentality? And feel free, Coach, you can say whatever you want.

You know what I mean? I mean, you know, no, like, well, for me it was like, you know, you go through the, you know, you go through the Eastern Conference, you know, and you know, it's a different style of basketball until you actually play the Golden State Warriors and see the speed and the pace that they play with. You can't duplicate it. You know, we had a lot of time to prepare, but you can't prepare for the speed, can't prepare for the shot making and how hard they run their stuff, you know? And so when we got to Golden State for those first two games, man, we couldn't keep— like, we were just like, they was just playing so fast, so fast. And what happens is a lot of people get, you know, they go crazy about the threes that Klay and Steph, whatever, gonna make, but you lose sight of, shit, they got 60 points in the paint.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean?

Because You wanted to step him, you trying to do, and now you got Draymond Green, you know, one of the best passers in the league. You, soon as you go out to help step, they slip, they getting dunks, they getting layups. And so you kind of lose sight of everything else because you're so worried about Klay and Steph, you know, coming off screens. And so those first two games, like, it was hard to make adjustments because shit, it was a blowout. Like, we get beat by 25, you know, 24. So like, how do you really adjust? But you know, I think, the adjustment we made was, it was really good for us because, you know, when you play 'em, you think about, we want to switch everything, you know, we want to, and they just pick you apart.

Yeah.

Like any mistake, gonna pick you apart. So, you know, look at the film over and over and over again. Uh, when game 3 came, I said, you know what, we're gonna, we are only gonna switch Steph and Klay when, when they come together in splits. Mm-hmm. Everybody else, we're gonna just drop back, you chase and follow. And then we'll protect you. Like if Barbosa pops back, if Iguodala pops back, if Shawn Livingston pops back, we'll live with the results. But you can't like switch everybody. They were just too good.

It's too much chaos. Yeah.

And if you got J.R. Smith chasing Steph full speed and now you gotta stop and try to go back, it was too much. And so like, listen, if Steph and Klay come together, switch. If not, you're on your own. You got Steph and you got Klay. And that really helped us out, you know, a lot. And so What people don't understand is like after the first 2 games, I didn't show film. Like, because, you know, 'cause sometimes Bron will be upset and he'd be in the back rolling his eyes. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna stay positive. You know, I'm gonna stay positive. Everything we do, we shot half-court shots. We just did a lot of different stuff. And then when we won game 3, then that was a game I kind of showed all our mistakes, what we need to clean up, what we need to get better at. Because when you win a game, it's easier to kind of show that stuff. So they came back and won game 4. I didn't show no film. And so David Griffin was like, man, what the hell is Ty Lue doing? I'm like, bro, you don't understand. Like, she just, just relax. Like, I got it, you know? And so, but it was, it was, I mean, playing them every single night, man. Like, you know, it's just tough. Like the pace they play at, people don't understand until you actually in it.

Yeah. And then, you know, speaking of, well, Dray, I'll let you talk in a minute, but speaking up on game 4, One of the biggest turning points of the series, you know, and then you find out Draymond wasn't gonna play Game 5. Like, what was the adjustments like, you know, going from Game 4 to Game 5? 'Cause once y'all tied it up, I like watching the series because I felt like every game after Game 3, it was like, Somebody went back and made key adjustments to make the game that much stickier, right? Yeah.

I mean, so, you know, they win game 4, you know, and I thought we played, you know, good enough to win, but they win game 4 and then we gotta go back to Golden State, you know, for game 5. And then we get the news that, you know, Draymond Green was gonna be out. So for us, that was something for us like the automatic pick our pressure up, like, You know, now we gotta pick our pressure up. We gotta deny, we gotta extend because they didn't have like, Eagle Dog could make plays like in transition, but Dray was more of the half court passer, you know? So he's basically the point guard. And so when he was out, we knew we had to pick our pressure up to try to take 'em out everything they try to, like they try to do, you know? And so it's a funny story when we get to game 7 and I think you probably don't remember Draymond, but you, but if you go back and watch the game, so at the end of the game we were up, 3. And we went over like, y'all's out, y'all's a knee 3 plays. We went over every single day for 3 weeks straight. But one of the games were close. So we did, so me and Kyrie and Bron, like, man, we doing this shit again. I'm like, man, you never know. It's gonna come down to something. And so for each play, we had different guys guarding different positions. And so when they came out to run a knee 3 play, you know, Draymond Green was taking it out.. And we jumped into our formation and Draymond Green was kind of looking like, what the, like, what's going on? So we deflected the ball outta bounds. So then they go to their second knee 3 play, they switched it and our players was guarding somebody different and we was able to take it away. And then so Bronson, man, it came down to game 7. You never know, like you gotta work on it every single day because you never know when you're gonna need it. Mm-hmm. And so every day we work on the knee 3s, they like, man, ain't none of the games been close. Why are we doing this? And then game 7, it came down to it. Big forms.

Yeah, man, that was crazy. What up, BD?

Welcome to the party.

Come on, Draymond Green.

I appreciate it. Speak your piece.

I don't have much to say. We lost. Um, but what I will say is, now it's crazy because in playing in those series, like, it prepared us in moving forward to, to know how to make those adjustments because it was a chess match. Like, every time we would play from game to game. They make this move, we make this move. They move they queen, we move our rook. You know, they—

Mm-hmm.

We move our— like, that's what those series were. Obviously, when I got suspended for Game 5, it changed everything. But also, you know, their adjustment, it's interesting because their adjustment to pick up the pressure is obviously how they took over and won the game. Because when you get in a lot of series, and a key piece like that gets moved, normally your game plan stay the same, right? Because you like, ah, we've been playing this team, your game plan stay the same. And then you come out there and you get blasted. Like it happened to us a couple years ago when we won a championship. We played Memphis in game 4, game 5 or something like that. And Ja was hurt. Oh, it was game 5. They beat us by 60 because we didn't, like there was no adjustment. Like you didn't know what team you was about to play. Whereas opposed to you've been preparing for this one team. Right. And you know the adjustments that you need to make. It's a different team now. And so that's, that's an interesting adjustment. But no, when game 5, it changed everything. Like we're going home and obviously they're gonna make an adjustment, but you know, for us we're, we going home to close out this series and, and that's the mindset. Then I get suspended and I'll never forget, I was watching that game next door at the, at the A's game and I had on all black. I had on some black Nike combat boots and I had my route down and everything. I'm like, yeah, we gonna win this game. And I'm taking the long route to the court so I can walk past all of the Cavs when they walk into the locker room with they head down. And I'm in all black and I'm mobbin' in there. And it just didn't work out for us, man. I was sitting in that, I was sitting in that suite watching the game and I didn't realize, I didn't recognize the team I was watching.

Yeah.

Like it was, it just looked like a different team to me. And so then to come back game 6, like we lost game 6 in game 5. Like game, there was 0% chance we were going to Cleveland and win game 6. So we had already lost game 6 in game 5. And then we end up in game 7 and T.Lou game plan is to make me beat them.

And—

[LAUGHTER] I had the game of my life and ultimately—

He had 5 threes in the first half.

Man, I was there. I was at that game. I was at that game.

But you know, like something about coaching, you know, Dey Dey, is like when you got the control of your team and they respect you and they trust you, like, you know, you have 5 threes at halftime and then not one player come in crying about like, that's the game plan. Like, you know, like he can make shots, but if we keep stepping Clay from, you know, making 7, 8 threes and we keeping the ball outta their hands, like that's what we want to do. And you gotta think for the best team in NBA history record-wise, like we held y'all to 89 points in game 7.

89 points.

You know what I'm saying? So like, and we just, they just, we just stuck with it. Like, and JR, like I said, JR Smith was huge in that third quarter coming out then. But like it just, and you had to balance that, the best game of your life, you know?

But—

You know what's crazy though, T-Lou, is that game, It was a mixture of that game and then also KD coming. And so the mixture of that game and me like shooting the lights out, scoring at will, having what I scored, 31 or 33 or something like that.

35.

35. And we only had 89 points and I have 35. And so me being the player that I am, which is 70% cerebral, KD coming in, which means I have to kind of take more of a backseat anyway, right? Like, but at the same time, that's coming on the heels of me just having 35 and we lost. And so now my mindset ends up turning to, well, they want me to take this shot because I just had 35 in Game 7 and we lost. So then I stopped shooting, right? Like, because I'm like, oh, they want me to take the shot.

Yeah.

In turn, I didn't spend 2 and a half years with zero confidence in my shot and just DHO and find creative ways to get Steph and Klay involved. 'Cause I ain't wanna shoot because I lost all confidence. But a part of me losing confidence was that game and not taking the shot and taking the shots, right? Like, and actually making them. But we ain't win. So I'm like, dang, what? That's the mindset. They want me to shoot, so I'm not gonna shoot because they're game planning to make me shoot. So why would I shoot? And then it led down to this whole path of like then being like afraid to shoot, like, and losing my confidence in my shot and like hesitating and then having to get over that mental hurdle. It all started for me there, which was crazy because it was your game plan. But then it became a part of my mind of like, that's the game plan. Why would I shoot?

Yeah., but now you back to shooting 40-some percent from 3 again.

And turning to T-Lou, telling him, "Don't let me shoot tonight, goddamn!" Man, this is therapeutic.

Yeah.

Man, this is therapeutic, man. That's a hell of a moment. A full circle moment. That's hella therapeutic, man. I'm glad T-Lou— see, we got that, the hardest part, we got out the way. We talked about it. Now we can go home.

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The crown is yours.

So I have to ask this question. And speaking of that Game 7, you know, I've heard all of the stories and quite honestly I've ignored 'em because that's just a dark moment in my life. But there was some story about you collecting money that you left in the ceiling or, So I'm like, let me in on this story. I need to know more. 'Cause next time we play y'all in a meaningful series, I'm going in that locker room the night before and taking that money.

Oh man. So, so after we won game 5, so you know, all the owners and you know, the GM, everybody's in the locker room, they celebrating, whatever, everybody's happy. So I go in the locker room and said, everybody give me $200. They was like, what?

For what?

I was like, I'm gonna take it, wrap it up, I'm gonna put it in the ceiling and we come back and get our money for Game 7. And so where I got that from was from, you know, Doc Rivers. We played the Lakers in 2009. We played the Lakers during the regular season. It might have been Christmas and they blew us out. Like they killed us. Mm-hmm. And so Doc went around the room and collected money from everybody, put the money in the ceiling, said, we coming back for the NBA Finals and we come back to get our money. And we came back and we played in the finals. They beat us that year, but we came back and played in the finals and, uh, the money was still up there too in the ceiling. And, uh, so I got that from Doc. And so we came back game 7. I'm gonna tell you what's crazier than that. You know how cheap LeBron is.

So, oh man. Golly.

So PD, we win a championship, you know, game 7, I go open the ceiling, the money still, it's like $4,700 or something like that, right? So shit, I pocket, you know what I'm saying? And so Bron, we, we, they throwing champagne, they whatever. So Bron said, hey T-Lou, where's that money at, man? I said, man, I went up there, it's missing. I don't know where it's at. We just won a championship and he's worried about getting $200.

The great, the great LeBron.

That is hilarious 'cause that is exactly how he is to every, That's crazy.

He frugal, huh?

No, I mean, I mean, he generous too. I'm just saying, but like—

He want his money back.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

He earned that. He need his cut. Out of pocket it too.

In the middle of popping champagne, you just won a championship and you ask where the $200 at?

Hey man, don't forget about that. But I was just about to say, but interestingly enough, it's less about him being frugal and more about like, dude don't miss anything.

Like, yeah.

He don't miss nothing.

Nothing, man. And like I said, him and Kyrie, like I said, they was special. That final, they was special. Like I said, Game 5, both of those guys having 40. And just like I said, once we got to Game 7, like Bronson said, give me the Game 7 and I'll do the rest, you know? And so, but bad, bad, man.

Yeah. Speaking of Game 7, I mean, everybody talk about the block. And then obviously Kyrie's shot. But there, is there another play that you feel people miss that helped secure that title?

Kevin Love, when he switched out on Steph.

Ooh, he sat down.

Hey dude, he sat down. He sat down.

Woo!

That's one of the ultimate sit downs in NBA history, dude. That was crazy.

Because it's crazy because it wasn't supposed to happen. So, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? I don't want K-Love on Steph. Yeah.

You don't want that.

You know, something happened and breakdown where he ended up on Steph. And I mean, K-Love, I give him credit, man. He sat down, he sat down, he guarded 4 or 5 different moves. Like, you know, forced Steph into a tough shot. But that was a big play. I think we might've been up 3 or maybe 4.

I'm not, maybe 3.

3.

Yeah, 3. Yeah.

Yeah, big stop. And, I think that's when Bron got the rebound and got fouled and then went to the free throw line. Oh no, no. Got the stop, Kyrie went coast to coast, threw it to Bron and he fouled him. And then he went to the line and made a point. Yeah, but that was K-Love, man, moving them puppies, man.

Yeah, he was. It's crazy because we watched, we seen like, oh, this is it. Like we up 3, y'all up 3, Steph about to tie it, this is it. Like we got K-Love on the iso, it's over. And he was moving.

I think it surprised Steph. I thought he was gonna lay it up. Yeah, I thought he was gonna lay it up.

It probably surprised Steph too, for sure. 'Cause like, I mean, he was there, he was there, he boom, I'm like, damn, okay, K-Love. But I was nervous, I was nervous as hell.

Like, I didn't, I'm like, how did he get on Steph? That was a moment, dude. I thought Steph was gonna drive 'cause he had got a layup, I feel like, the play before on the drive. And it was enough time, you know what I mean? But that switch was like, okay, Steph getting to the step back. And shout out to the Bruin great, Kevin Love. You know, we Bruins.

There you go.

Sit down, bro.

Stop it. Y'all don't know.

Sit down.

I got a couple people from UCLA that sit down. You, Russ, and Drew.

Keep going. Norm.

Norm don't sit down no more.

No, no, no. He don't wanna sit down.

Wait, hey, hold up. Norm don't sit down no more.

Hold on.

Hey, Norm was just on the show talking about defense.

No, no, no, no. Just keep talking about offense.

Come on, Norm, what happened? He all offense now, T-Lou?

All offense, all offense.

And Matt Barnes, that's it. That's all y'all got to say.

Oh, Loon.

Loon.

Loon. Come on, Payton Watson, Zach Levine, Lonzo Ball.

But Zach Levine, man, if you don't— Zach don't play no defense. Also, how many in that whole group you just named, How many are defensive teams in that group?

Oh man, we always get, uh, holla.

Oh, all right, bet. So we gonna move on then, T-Lou. Yeah, yeah, we gonna move on. We gonna move on. We just not gonna speak of UCLA like they defense you.

Big Ten, baby. We gonna see when that matchup happen.

Y'all don't wanna play us. Yeah, it's nice weather where y'all go to school.

Okay.

Y'all don't wanna play us. Don't do that. It's crazy because T-Lou was just saying they decided to switch Klay and Steph stuff. And the way they were guarding us, it was then like, man. And even a little bit before that, like we struggled a bit with OKC, but then we end up coming back and winning that series. And then it obviously reared its ugly head against the Cavs in a great year. But teams were starting to figure out how to guard us. And so, you know, at that point we gotta figure out what's next. We gonna sign KD. What's your reaction to that, T-Lou, when you see that?

It's over. Like, it's like, you know what I'm saying? You game playing. Like, 'cause I mean, like you said, we thought we figured y'all out. You know what I'm saying? Instead we went back the next year, it could have went either way again. But like, we thought we had the blueprint on how to guard and how to attack, you know, how to attack y'all offensively. 'Cause y'all was always top 5 in defense. You know what I mean? A big shout out to Ron Adams. You know what I'm saying?

Like— Yes, sir.

But when y'all got KD, it just made it so, I mean, come on, you blitz Steph and now you got Klay and KD on the weak side. You know, you short rolling, you got Iguodala for the lob and you got Klay and KD in the corners. Like it just became—

Come on, dude.

Yeah, it just became too hard. Like it just, it was too hard to really, like I said, match up offensively. And y'all was always great defensive team. So once y'all got KD, I mean, it was like, I mean, that's—

Yeah, and he can get his own money. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

He can get his own money too. That was so, that's what made it so unfair.

Yeah, so what you do, BD? You blitz KD and now you got Steph and Klay, you know, like, come on, man.

Yeah, what are you doing?

But it was just like, it was just too much.

It was too much. Nah, it was interesting because that's what ended up happening. Then teams was like, oh, we gonna switch here, we gonna switch. And so we would run our stuff. It's literally how our offense would go. We would run our stuff. And either KD getting spot-up shots off the, off, 'cause teams blitzing me and now I'm kicking to them or getting a lob to Draymond.

Yeah, you put a short roll up for him.

Or the team starts switching it and then we just get a ball to K and K go one-on-one. If you double, if you double, we hitting Steph. All right, so then they start doubling off me and then that's where we start doing the handbacks. You throw it to me, I'm catching, I'm handing off, I'm catching, I'm faking, I'm going to the cup. I got Andre on the lob now. That's where that came from. But it all started with us getting K and then like, all right, y'all switch.

Good luck.

Right.

It just, it was too much.

Playing on the Lakers, winning the championship with those two Laker teams, playing against Golden State, losing in the finals, beating them in the finals. Where does those Lakers teams stack up against the Cleveland Cavaliers championship team, the Golden State Warriors championship team with KD? You probably the best person to give some insight 'cause you played on the Lakers and won a championship with them.

Man, I just don't see nobody like beating the Lakers team. Like I said, when they got KD, I gotta go back and reassess. It just the, what I'm saying, the biggest factor like is Shaq. Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean?

Shaq was just, I mean, no, I'm saying you can't stop him. Like you can't guard him. You know what I mean? You had, God rest in peace, one of my guys, Mutombo, like I said, Defensive Player of the Year. You know, Shaq averaged 36, whatever, in 14 that series or something. But like, I mean, it just wasn't no answer for Shaq. Like, okay, say, you know, you had, you were double-teaming Kobe or Kobe had a rough night, whatever. There's just, there's no answer for Shaq and you could foul him. But now you got 3 centers playing the game. So you're now your 3rd and 4th string center are playing against Shaq. Yeah. Because everybody else gonna foul out or in foul trouble. And now you in the bonus with, you know, 6 minutes to go in every quarter. Like it just, I just don't see an answer for Shaq. And that's like, that's what people don't talk about and understand is his dominance was, was, you know, unmatched.

I agree. And then you get that backup center, the third string center, they ain't shot blockers. They not, you know what I mean? They, they may be a little different. So it just kind of soften up the defense. But, You know, I always say it's, you know, I pull favoritism to our era just because of, you know, you got Shaq. Shaq was just a dominant player. Kobe was super dominant. But then all of the other players on the team were high-skilled cerebral basketball players that could play basketball, that love to play basketball, that can make adjustments on their own.

You know what I mean?

Um, as opposed to, you know, a lot of the modern-day basketball is more so adjustments from a coaching standpoint. You know, the coaches have to make the adjustments because I think the players are young, right? And so there's a, there's a gap of veterans to young guys, and there's a learning curve that feels like— that's why y'all got so many damn coaches over there on the sidelines to try and help. Is that, is that the case?

I mean, it's a lot of player development going on, you know? And so I do think, like I said, these player development groups that you put together, you see on every team, I think it's very important because you got guys coming in 19, 20, 21 and don't really know how to play the game, you know? And so like our guy, we got Sean Fine, he's amazing. Like, you know, he's him and, you know, Dante Jones and, you know, Jeremy Castle. Cookie, Bo, Comin' Connor, all the guys, they put in work every day. Like Chris Holguín. And you see it paying off. Like, you know, just with our young guy, Kai Jones, like he's got better and better and better. Like, you know, so it's important. So I think when you're drafting these young guys, you gotta have guys that is willing to be in the gym, do the, you know, the hard grinding work every single day. And then, you know, mold and get these players to where they want to be. And so I think it is very important. Mm-hmm.

I just want to, I just want to say something about, uh, I don't even want to talk about the Lakers thing. I gotta say something about that. I mean, I just gotta say something about that. I find it interesting because, you know, it's a very interesting one. I'll tell you why it's very interesting, because quite honestly, Shaquille O'Neal is my favorite player of all time. So It's a little challenging for me to be like, yeah, somebody gonna stop Shaq. 'Cause it's very hypocritical to my childhood beliefs and like what I, like how I actually feel. So it's very hypocritical of me to say that. And quite honestly, I don't think any of us could have stopped Shaq. Just like no one else in Shaq's era could stop Shaq. I just don't think that was happening. I do think we then pose some challenges on the other side for Shaq that you just can't stand in the paint against us, big fella. Like, and you know, I'm a, again, I am the biggest Shaq fan you gonna find, but you can't just stand in the paint against us. Like, we gonna exploit that. And so what y'all gonna do defensively? And then at, you know, also depends on the time that we playing because, you know, when y'all were playing that, couldn't play zone in the NBA then. Obviously now you can play some zone, but you couldn't play zone then. You know what I'm saying? So that, that also changes it to where we can really get at Shaq. But in saying that, no, I think, um, I don't really have much of an argument just on the sake of it being Shaq. So I'm gonna let y'all have that.

Okay.

Just on the sake of it being the Big Diesel. Because you right though. Ain't nobody stopping Shaq. And it actually pisses me off, man, when people don't try to give Shaq the credit that he deserves. Like, And like, don't talk about Shaq in the light that Shaq is. Like, it's the most dominant player we've ever seen.

Nah, ever.

Hey, here he is right here, BD. Hey, hey.

What's up?

Say that. Say that.

Oh, D. Jones!

What's up, y'all? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. That is one of the biggest hacks in summer basketball history. Hey, T-Lou, T-Lou, remember how mad we used to get at Dante dude for playing and following people in the gym? Hey, Draymond, you seen nothing like this, bro. You seen nothing like this. You shoot, he stays. See, there you go.

That made my heart warm. Like, if you, if you ain't—

all defenders are hacks.

That man on the other side of the camera said, hey, Draymond Green, one of the biggest—

That's crazy. I don't even foul that much. The referees just don't like me.

He in here working out.

Chris Dunn.

Chris Dunn out here.

Okay.

Another hack. Another hack. Chris definitely a hack.

Teach him your ways, Dante. Teach him your ways.

He definitely a hack.

I'm sorry, what now?

What happened?

What was going on?

Nah, so yeah, I'll give y'all that. Although I don't think y'all team was as good as ours, but in a matchup, nobody stopping Shaq. But I'll tell you what, you got to come out that paint, big fella, and you might just be looking crazy. That's all I'm gonna say.

Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, talent-wise, but like when you got the two best players in the world on the same team, like you said, You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, we, I mean, only team I saw even do a halfway decent job on Shaq, like you said, was San Antonio. Like, you know, the front and back with David Robinson and Tim Duncan. But still, yeah, he still averaged 27, 28. You know what I'm saying? But like, it just, man, it just him and Cole, man, together. Like that, I mean—

And Shaq could move. Shaq could move. He wasn't no stiff.

He wasn't a stiff.

He was not a stiff.

He wasn't a stiff, but he wasn't moving like Shaq had been moving.

What years?

Shaq started getting them later years in LA. He wasn't moving like that no more, man. Shaq started getting heavy. Shaq started rehabbing on company time. Shaq wasn't moving like that no more. That's what he do.

That's what he do. You think about the 3 stops after that when he went to Miami, Cleveland, and—

Well, of course he was completely done moving in Miami.

Miami year 1, he was straight.

Year 2 is when— We gotta stop. I gotta stop. This is gonna come off like I'm hating on Shaq and that'll break my heart. So we gotta stop.

Oh, you ain't hating. I'm saying, like, you got the Phoenix, Cleveland, and Boston.

You know what I'm saying?

With the Lakers, he was still—

Of course he was still dominant. But again, coming to move them puppies on the wing with KD and Steph and putting them in pin downs with Klay, that's— He wasn't moving like that. He was not doing none of that. He wasn't moving like that. That's all I'm saying.

Gotta have guys that's gonna get through the screens for sure.

Kobe will chase over the screen. Let's see, T-Lou getting nailed by the screen.

No, I'm kidding. No, T-Lou getting over the screen, man.

That's why Shaq loved playing him, 'cause he had to come out and drop. He had to worry about, I'm getting through the screens.

Hey, man, that's right. I ain't saying playing against that dude.

It's how I lose the game. Like, 'cause you know, he ain't gotta do nothing. You know what I'm saying? But you know what was crazy though? Back in those days, and we was talking about the other day, me and B Show, you know, it was automatic because back in those days you had a 4 and a 5 on each block. You know what I mean? So when the ball hit the wing, whether it was a pick and roll or not, you was automatically in an ice stance.

Yes.

Because it's gonna be a big on the block. And that's what made it easier to guard back then. You know what I'm saying?

Yep.

You know, you have a 4 on the block, a 5 on the weak side block, cross screen. But when the ball hit the wing, you automatically jumped in a no middle stance and set it down whether it's pick and roll or not. And so that was crazy. That was real crazy, but it was easy. But you know, it made your life a lot easier for sure.

All right. All right, switching beats to the Clippers. You talked about Norman Powell and how he stepped up this season to become pretty much a go-to player on this team. Talk a little bit about Norm and, you know, who does Norm's game remind you of in your playing days?

Okay, first let's start with, I mean, with Norm, like just to see the work he puts in every single day, you know, BD and Dray, like, I mean, he works too much for me. Like I said, to me, I mean, but he works hard and he's wanting to be a starter, you know, having PG and having Kawhi. You know, it was hard for him to start, you know, but this man works every single day since I've been here. Like, just seeing the amount of work he puts in and, um, you know, his slogan is UTG, understand the grind, and he grinds every day, like, working on everything. And so, um, for him to get this opportunity to play the way he has, like, I'm just happy for him because, you know, he puts in, like, he puts in, like, real, real work, you know. And so I'm just happy to see him like have a year he's having, people starting to recognize what he can do, you know, as a starter. So that's really good. As a player, more like a microwave, but I didn't get a chance to play against microwave, but I've seen a lot of them. Just that build, you know, he's still more norm. I tease him 'cause I say he's 6 foot, but he's 6'3". If you straighten his legs up, he might be 6'7". Yeah, he'd be 6'7". But I would say like you're saying like microwave, like can score at all levels, man. Just instant offense. And he did it last year for us off the bench, you know, averaging 16 points off the bench, led the league in fourth quarter threes percentage-wise last year. You know, he can just, you know, come in, he's an instant scorer. So I would say more so like microwave if I had to, you know, say anybody.

Y'all got James playing at a, and when I say y'all, I mean obviously coaching, but you know, he's doing it. But James playing at an Austin, Texas star level this year, back looking like the James that we all have grown to know, you know, going through them battles with, you know, them Houston teams. Like, that's the James that he's looking like now. What's it been like? James once said, "I am the system." You know what I'm saying? I am a system. Like, and seeing him play this year, it's like you as a coach and y'all staff, has put him in all his pet sets that he like to run and have twisted some things to, you know, sets that you've incorporated. But putting him in those situations that he like to get to, that he's thrived in and became James Harden as we know it, what's that adjustment been like? What was those conversations like to go to him and be like, all right, listen, obviously PG gone, Kawhi, out and taking a team that most people seeing like, dang, PG left, Kawhi out, this team gonna be bad, and got this team rolling and he playing at that level. Just what, what was the kind of the build up to that? And you know, just the adjustments that you've had to make in getting him back in that role.

Yeah. Well, the good thing for us is he's been accustomed to playing that way, you know? So we got him last year. Um, he more so just tried to adapt. And you know, he was a playmaker and, you know, ran our, you know, with Kawhi and PG, like you said, he didn't come in. I think James averaged like 8 or 9 shots a game last year. You know what I mean? And he just kind of just, you know, got everybody involved, pick and choose his spots. But this year it was a different conversation. Like you said, with Kawhi being out, with PG being gone, like we need him to turn back the clock. Like, you know, Absolutely. The same position he was in to carry that burden, you know, offensively. And you know, our front office has done a good job of acquiring Derrick Jones Jr., who's a defender. You know, Chris Dunn, who's a defender. And you put those guys around James where he doesn't have to, you know, guard every single night. And now he can just focus and lock in on scoring the basketball and making guys better. And he's flourished, like I said, and he's used to and accustomed to this role. But like, it started in training camp. Like, it was a hard training. It was a throwback training camp. You know, like, mess up on the line, 6 or 10, you know, like, but. Yeah. No, every day. And I give him credit, you know, like he, he did it every single day whether he liked it or not. And, and that's what's kind of got us to this point. But like just every day practicing, playing every game where he missed one game, uh, you know, the whole year, um, playing every night, you know, all the training camp stuff. And then taking this young team, like I said, and just put them on his shoulders and just showing them how to work, showing them how to win, showing them how to do things the right way. And like I said, he's been great for us. Like you said, all year long.

Nah, I think it's dope to just see him back at that level. And where I give you credit and him, it's like, I didn't even know he still had that level in him. You know what I'm saying? Like, to even get back to this level, it's special to watch. But one question I also wanna ask you is, in coaching Bron and then coaching James, I always say, obviously the way they went about it, two completely different, ways, but talk about how both of them can control the entire pace of a game. And having a guy like that, that every time down the court is capable of getting you a good shot, because I don't think people understand in this league, there's not— your favorite player can't just do that. Like, there's only a select few of guys that can make that happen in this league. And obviously, you know, now having James playing at the level of doing that and then having Bron— Right. Just what are the similarities in them controlling the games and then what are the differences?

And that's what, that's one thing, like you said, is why I think he should be an All-Star this year, but just, you know, things he's done so far, just making guys better. But like you said, to generate a good shot every time down, you know, whether you make it or not, you know, it's a make-miss league, but you know, he generates a good shot every single time for himself or for his teammates. And just look at all the people when you talk about him and Bron, like, how many people they done got paid. Yes. Throughout the, you know what I'm saying?

That's where it's coming from. Clint Capella should still be washing James' cars.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm just saying like a lot of people, you know what I'm saying? The same with Bron. Like, you know, they made people better. They gotten guys paid, they gotten coaches paid. Like Bron got me paid. But like just to control a game and knowing that you gonna get a good shot every time down the floor, like you just don't find it everywhere, you know? And so people don't respect that part of the game where you got a guy that can generate a good shot every single time.

When the last time Mozgov came and watched you and Brian Kars?

I seen Big Moz, I seen Big Moz, uh, South Beverly Grill, uh, 2 weeks ago.

That's hilarious. Man, you one of the best coaches in this league. You know, we've said it before on this show, uh, we say it all the time as far as in-game adjustments. Just talk a little bit about, you know, your philosophy around in-game adjustments. And then when did you notice like, hey bro, I'm kind of nice at this coaching thing? When did that hit?

Man, well it started back, like you said, you know, Doc and Danny Ainge, you know, gave me my first opportunity and it started when I played for Doc in 2003 in Orlando. And he told me, he said, listen T-Lou, when you done playing, you can come coach. I'm like, man, I ain't coaching, you crazy. Like, hey, you know, coaching wasn't in me, you know? But when I finished in 2009, like, That's all I knew. And so I give a lot of credit to Doc because like, you know, when we lost a tough game or a hard game, you know, how I used to go back and sit in the back of the room when he did media and just listen to how he handled himself and how he handled the media. You know, just all the ATOs at the timeouts. Like Doc was, you know, the best in my opinion, you know, back in Boston, just running ATOs. And I was able to learn from Thibodeau. Mm-hmm., you know, in Boston. Then I learned from Lawrence Frank, you know. And so I had a lot of guys that I could learn from. You take it like, you know, Doc back then was the best coach in the league, you know. So you learn from Doc, you learn from Thibodeau, who was the best defensive coordinator in the league, learn from Lawrence. And so I had a lot of guys that I, that I learned from. And so I give them a lot of, uh, respect, you know, for me being where I'm at today. Um, but it's, it's hard, you know, it's hard, BD. It's a hard job.

Yeah.

You know, as a player, you know, you just kind of basically worry about yourself. You know, as a coach, you gotta worry about everybody, the assistants, the medical, the, you know, the equipment managers, the players. And so when you lose a game, you know, you gotta go back and look yourself and be like, man, what could I have done different? What could I have done better?

Right.

And you know, like, it was a tough grind, but I learned a lot along the way to be in this position and putting a lot of hard work to be in this position. There's a lot of great coaches out there. And so just to be mentioned, you know, in the same breath with a lot of these guys, you know, it means a lot, you know, especially being a young coach.

You said something that I actually wanted to address anyway. You just said it. You said LeBron get a lot of guys paid. He got me paid. And I wanna ask you about that because coming in, obviously you, you take over a team, you go on to win a championship. And a lot of people knew you were great in what you brought in that situation that even the coach that, you know, you were assistant under couldn't bring. And everybody just knew like there was a specific thing that was gonna be needed. Nobody felt that he had it. No disrespect to him, but everybody felt you had it. And saying that, you come in, you take over a team, obviously Bron's playing and Bron is always gonna get much deserved credit that he gets. But you said Bron get a lot of us, Bron get a lot of guys paid. He got me paid. A lot of people tried to say that initially, like, oh man, he was coaching Bron. Of course he gonna come in and win a championship. As if that's just a given. You then started to be known as, and rightfully so, as one of the best coaches in the league, period. How was it for you to kind of break that tag of, yo, he's LeBron's coach? Because you know, everybody always try to make it a stigma of like, oh, he's LeBron's this, he's LeBron's that. He coached Bron, so that's why he won a championship. So much so that even then the Los Angeles Lakers want to give you a contract that aligns with LeBron's contract. How was it for you to break that stigma? Of Bron and knowing how great you were, or how great you are, but how great you were as a coach?

I mean, the outside noise really didn't bother me 'cause I don't have social media and I don't really get into all that. You know, everybody has their opinions, but he really helped me. But the biggest thing for me is I sat down with him, Kyrie, and K-Love, and I told 'em, this is what I need from you guys. Like, if y'all wanna win, if we wanna win, this is what I need. And I give those 3 guys a lot of credit. But when people say that, you know, Bron's been in the league, what, 21 years? He had 4 championships. So I mean, they act like he won 21 championships. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? He's won 4 championships. And so, you know, he hasn't won every year. And sometimes it takes, you know, a special person or a special situation to get to that point.

Mm-hmm.

But like I said, Bron deserves all the credit. But what fulfilled me was, when he came to me and said that, you know, I was a great coach and, you know, one of the best coaches he's ever played for. And so that enough right there meant a lot to me. And so I think, you know, once, you know, he went to, to the Lakers, then I had a chance. I go to the Clippers, I think, and coach that team. We go to the conference finals when Kawhi gets hurt, you know, and I think that's when I finally got my respect. You know, once I, you know, my first year with the Clippers, we go to the conference finals. And I was able to get out from under LeBron's umbrella, you know. But it shouldn't be like that, like you said. And I know that he's brought a lot to me, you know, as a coach, made me better because he's so high on execution, doing things the right way. And you got a guy who's the best player in the world that had never been late. Like, he's the first one, like, you know, shootaround, practice, leave. And then, you know, a lot of times you even have guys who of his stature, Coming to the bus 10 minutes late, the plane 20 minutes. Man's never late.

Never.

Yeah. Like, respect everybody's time. Respect everybody, what they're doing. And like I said, without him, like I said, I wouldn't be who I am today because he made you better. Because when I come in and present, you know, a scout report, how we wanna do something, I know that he's not gonna miss a beat. And I know I gotta be sharp on what I'm doing every single day, every single night because he doesn't miss a beat, you know? And so he's made me better for sure. So I'm not, I'm always gonna give him the credit because like he's made me better at who I am. And so hopefully one day he can say, you know what, T-Lou was one of the guys that got me over the top when I got back to Cleveland, you know? And so, you know, I give, like I said, all the credit to him. Like I said, Kyrie, K-Love, be able to sacrifice, you know? 'Cause you gotta think K-Love came from Minnesota where he was the man.

Getting 20 and 20, 30 and 20. Yeah.

30s and 20s. Yeah.

Ask K-Love like, hey man, could, you know, being a third option, you know, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna feature you when you're on the floor, outta timeouts, different situations. And for him to buy in like that and to win a championship, like it just says a lot about them and who they are too. But I give, like I said, all the credit to Bron, but for making me a better coach, you know, every step of the way.

No, I think that's dope. And I, and I, and I respect it because again, to have the influence, to have the impact that Bron has, obviously, You know, it's a great platform, but then you have to be capable of living it like on that platform. Like you can't, because if you're, if you're not capable, you get swallowed up fast in anything that he's involved in. And it's, it was, it's, it was like the same thing with Rich. I think the same thing with Mav, you know, where all the guys that has grown with him in a certain aspect, it's like, oh, they're only this because of him. But it's like, nah, A, there were some people along the way that weren't able to take advantage of that opportunity, right? B, they don't get to this, to the situation without being special anyway, you know? And, and you know, when Rich first started Klutch, it's like, oh, he's LeBron's agent. Like, oh, he's only— And it's like, no, I've, I've actually built the best sports agency in the business and you to see you kind of break that same stigma in your own way.

Same thing. Yeah. Like Rich, like you said, what he's built, what Mav has built, you know, what I continue to go on and build, you know, but it's all, like I said, it stems from LeBron. But just because I give you a million dollars and tell you to invest it, that don't mean you gonna make the right investments. You know what I mean? Like I could be broke in 2 years or I can make, I can have $10 million in 2 years. You know? So like, No, what you do with it, and that's what I say about LeBron, because when they fired Coach Black, they could have went with anybody. And Bron had the confidence in me to say, you know what? Nah, I like T. Lue.

And so that says a lot. That's big, yo. That's big.

That says a lot.

That's huge.

For a coach, 38 years old, to step in there and fill some big shoes. 'Cause like I said, Coach Black went to the NBA Finals the year before. And when I took over halfway through the season, we was the number one team in the East. You know, that was a lot that came with it too, you know? So, but like I said, for those guys that had a belief in me to do it, you know, it says a lot. So I'm happy about that.

1000%. And then, and just speaking of guys that you've done it with, your relationship with Steve Ballmer, how has it been, you know, and working with him, you know, just the type of owner that he is, resources that he's bringing to the team and building that incredible arena. You know, and I obviously, the only other owner that you've coached under as a head coach is obviously Dan Gilbert. But just what is it that Steve has brought as an owner of that team and it being a joy to coach, you know, and having an ownership group like that?

You know what he's brought? It's family. Like, you know, when you get a chairman that, you know, that really cares about your well-being, your family's well-being, the team, everybody works in this organization. When you get somebody who really actually cares, it's genuine. You could tell when somebody's bullshit, you know what I mean? But like, when you could see when it's genuine, you know, like when COVID first hit and we were in a bubble,— you know, and Black Lives Matter. And, you know, we started that slogan and trying to, you know, help our communities and help our culture. He stepped in and everybody on the team and even Doc Rivers, the head coach, he donated $1 million to everybody's charity.

Wow.

Or community center or— yeah, everybody to, you know, to put it to wherever you want to put it to. You know, he told us we're gonna— when he first took over, I'm gonna build a new arena for us. Like, you know, he could have invited another team like the Lakers to come play here so he can generate money. But it wasn't about that. It was about us, you know? And so like this man, crazy story, which Ryan West gets on me, got to tell it all the time. But it's, for me it's huge because during the season a couple years ago, he said, you know, what are you passionate about? I said, I'm passionate about my family and I'm passionate about where I'm from, which is Mexico, Missouri. Mm-hmm. He said, I said, I wanna do something special there, but I really don't know what to do. Like, you come from a small town, 11,000 people, not a lot of money in the community. So he was like, I'm gonna go take a trip with you one time and I'm gonna take a look at it. I was like, all right, yeah, right, whatever. So the summer hits, he called me, hey, when we gonna go to Mexico? And I was like, what you mean? He's like, we gonna take a trip to Mexico. I'll give you 3 dates, pick one. So I gave him a date. Long story short, we fly private on his plane. We fly into Jefferson City, Missouri. Go down to Mexico, Missouri. We know we walk around, tour the city, just, you know, brainstorming. And, um, the next year, I mean, and the man sleeps in the best Western hotel in Mexico. Wakes up the next day, wake up the next day, Dey Dey says, the best sleep I had in a long time.

Wow.

The 7th richest man in the world. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's just how genuine he is. And then, so we started a program, my C2C program, which is Cradle to Career. Commitment to community. And, um, he donated $3.5 million the first year, uh, which we was a— it was a, um, a 5-year plan to raise $10 million. In the first year and a half, we raised $18 million. But like, he put me in contact with PRI, he donated $3.5 million, like, and so he's just been putting me on the right path to do a lot of things. And like I said, we've changed Mexico so much right now, but we still got a lot more to do.

Wow.

But just like I said, his vision And like I said, every single day before the game comes in for 10 minutes, checks on me, how you doing? You know, just so positive. And he's like that with everybody. Like, it's genuine. You can feel it. And so that's like, I mean, he's one of the best people I've met in my life, man. He's unbelievable. He's incredible.

That's incredible, man.

Shout out to Bomber, man.

Absolutely. That's fire.

BD, you had a lot of interactions with Mr. Bomber?

Yeah, he, when he started the Baller Vision, Clipper Vision.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's been great. I mean, you know, one, passionate about the game, love talking about the game. I say even for, you know, Clipper alumni, you know, we got kind of like this starting to build a once a Clipper, always a Clipper kind of fraternity, which is cool and bringing a lot of guys back. So, you know, I respect him for what he do in LA, in the community, with the courts, with the foundation, with the investments. Like somebody who really came in here not just as, a owner who owns a team that's just all about the team and all about trying to get resources to the team. You know what I mean? He's been about the entire city, bro. Like every park, every inner city, like the amount of people that shout his name on the foundation side and the way he's helped, you know, mobilize this community is like, you know, that was like my dream, but I ain't got no Steve Ballmer money. You know what I'm saying? But it's just good to see like, And it's good to see the Clippers like care about the inner city and care about LA. And then that's why you starting to see that Clipper fan base, you know, grow in LA for real.

No, that's fire.

And then, and then, and then T-Lou, since you've been in LA, you know, you heard a lot about Kawhi and his health this past year. The critics have been super loud. How are you? My question is, how excited are you that he will return in— just kidding. I mean, I thought she was gonna give me a date. Uh, I was like, how excited are you he will return?

Yeah, I know, I'm very excited, man. It just, you know, the big thing Um, and BD, like I said, you was one of the baddest point guards in the league. When I talk about guys like hard for me to guard, it was always you, Gilbert Arenas, AI, you know what I'm saying? And you was, and people don't get a chance to, you know, to see your, your full career because like I said, you got injured.

Yeah.

You know, but that doesn't mean you weren't putting in the work. That doesn't mean you wasn't, you don't wanna play. That doesn't mean you wanted to be on the floor.

Totally.

And so like you have bad, you have you have bad players that like, you know what I'm saying? Like our elite players are perennial All-Stars or, you know, are superstars. And just because like Anthony Hardaway, like, you know, Penny Hardaway, like he doesn't want to get hurt. Like you don't want to be hurt.

Right.

You know? So like it just hard for the criticism to come his way. But I know I see him every day grinding every day in the weight room, grinding on the court every single day. And it just like, it's just unfortunate that You know, he can't control what he has going on. Like, he just can't control it. If he could, he would. Like, you know, so it's hard to see all the criticism that he gets, you know, because he's hurt, because he's not playing. Because if you got a guy that's hurt and they're not putting the work in to get better and get back—

That's the difference.

Yeah. That's totally different. This man is grinding every single day.

Yep.

You know, every single day, all summer, every summer to get to where he want to get to. And it's just unfortunate. Like I said, it's times when he just can't control it, you know? And so That's just the part that's hurtful because he's not a guy that's gonna lay down. He's not a guy that doesn't care. You know what I'm saying? He does care. And that's what people don't understand, you know, from the outside. And it's just tough, man.

And you see former players that been through this spewing like, oh, like, man, don't give me stuff.

Well, they not real. No, don't give me stuff. They not real. 'Cause you gotta really go through injuries. I mean, T-Lou, you remember when I was hurt, playing in Vegas and, you know, trying to get back. Like, man, you trying to get back and then next thing you know, you may overcompensate a little bit. You may lift one or two reps and some tear, you know what I mean? And so you never right. Like once you get hurt, you are never right because you're never 100% of what you were before you got hurt. Draymond Green, you talked about that. Right. With your injury earlier in the year, right? And it's just like, man, you gotta work to get— you gotta work to almost get to 85%.

Facts.

Right.

Right.

Facts. And you'll never get to 100%.

Nope.

You gotta work to get to 85 and hope you don't get to 75, right? Because your tired meter, your wear and tear and all that. So, you know, I think, you know, a lot of times fans don't understand that. The mental part of it, the hard work part of it. But like, if somebody's not on the court, it's definitely not the result of them not working.

Yeah, just think about the organization, you know, as a whole. Like, you think they would continue to give him $50 million if he wasn't in there working, trying to get back? Like, if he was a lazy, you know what I'm saying, lazy dude, they wouldn't like, okay, all right, cool, you hurt, you done, we done. You know what I'm saying? But like, this man dedicated every single day, man, to try to be on the floor. Yeah. And like I said, it's painful to watch because like I said, he wants it so bad, man. And like, you know, and he's doing everything. And so I'm happy he's getting close, man. And for me, like I've been hurt a lot too. I had 3 knee surgeries, microfracture, and sometimes just it's the mental part. Like, can I do it? You know what I mean? Can I get over this hurdle? Can I do it? You know, can I get back to being who I was? And people don't understand that, that, man, it's a grind, you know? But he's been grinding. Like I said, I'm happy for him.

Fun Guy is one of my favorites, man. You know, I heard him rapping before.

Oh really?

Yeah, I had Fun Guy in the studio. He was rapping.

Oh man.

He may be mad, he may get mad at me, but you know, I had Fun Guy in the studio. He got bars, he got bars. He be spitting.

People don't know. Yeah, people don't know he's a funny dude, man.

I was gonna ask you, one, last two, Kawhi questions, 'cause you know, I'm a fun guy fan. I need a Kawhi, I need a Kawhi-ism for sure. And then the second question is, describe the similarities and the differences between coaching a Kawhi and coaching a LeBron.

Well, Kawhi-ism, a funny one. So me and my boy, Boogie Cousins, you know, that's my— and so I was mad at him one day and you know, he kept going back and forth. I said, man, Boogie keeps doing this. I was mad at Boogie, right? And so Kawhi came up to me, said, man, he can play, he's good, he's good though. I said, yeah, I know. I said, he's getting on my nerves, whatever, whatever. He said, I said, man, I'm just tired of looking at him, whatever. He said, just don't look at him. Like, how am I coaching players, don't look at him, you know what I'm saying?

Leave him on the court, huh?

Don't look at him.

Yeah, we know who he is, Boogie's a bad dog.

'Cause you know, he's one of the, you know, most talented centers been around this game. You know what I'm saying? You know, and so we had got into it one day. Well, that's my guy. But Kawhi's like, just don't look at him.

You figure it out. But he good right here.

You figure out what you gotta do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the comparisons between like him and Bron, like I said, the hard work, Like you said, is, is lined up just like this. Like both putting in, like you said, the work, you know, every single day. Um, like grind every single day to get better and just think about, you know, where they come in their career. Like Kawhi, when he first got in the league, he wasn't a shooter. Mm-hmm. You know, and he expanded. He was a, he was a corner shooter. Then he became better at the wings. You know what I'm saying? Then every year he's gotten better and better. Now he's a 43, I mean a 40% shooter., you know, 3-point shooter, you know, um, he was able to take steps of being a post player, getting better and getting better. Same with Draymond Green, came in the league, he wasn't a shooter. Now he doesn't shoot 40% from 3, put the work in. And so, um, they remind me a lot of each other. Like I said, when it comes to that work ethic and, you know, putting that work in to get to where they want to get to.

Kawhi is funny.

Yeah, he's funny. I mean, Bron's funny, but Kawhi's funny because he don't do a lot of talking, but when he talks, you know what I'm saying? So that's what, that's what makes it crazy, man. He be saying some crazy shit. I love you, man.

Our coaching staff this year, we added Jerry Stackhouse to take over our defense. One thing that I found that he does is he get these grades out. It's funny because he had something on the grade today. I had a conversation with him. I'm like, Stack, man, like you grading me on this based on how you grade somebody else. But I intentionally did this. Like I'm covering 2 right here. And he like, "Yeah, but you supposed to do this." I said, "Stack, but you ain't gonna tell Steph Curry to drive to the rim because someone else drives better. He gonna shoot the 3." So we had this whole conversation and we went at it for 15 minutes. It was great, me and him, just me and him. It was incredible. Y'all have brought JVG in who, and you know, I've heard a lot about just kind of his approach. You know, what he's brought to the staff and defense looking incredible. Is there something that he's brought that you would say has been different than maybe y'all were doing or a different approach than what you had before? Just bringing his coaching style, which is more of an old school coaching style than kind of the coaching style of what coaches do today.

Well, one, he's brought us a, he brought us a purpose defensively. You know, a lot of people just go out there and play defense. And like I said, I always hate playing against you because you always read the, you know, you know what's coming with ATL. You know, you take him over there, I got this. And now y'all switch, you blow the whole play up like, and have that IQ. But he's brought us a purpose defensively. And if you look at our team, like if you start James and Norman Powell, like, no, I give Norman a hard time, but they're not really defenders. And so if you can get top 5 defensive team in this league, you know, starting those two guys, we're small, we're little, we're scrappy. But he's brought us a purpose. And what he's, what he has done, Day Day, is that, you know, you know, most teams, they don't want to leave the corner, you know what I mean? Or, you know, you guard a great shooter. But our thing is, if you're close, go get it. And like, so most time, you know, you drive the ball, you know, a guy in the corner, he gonna stunt and get back. Like, nah, if you close to us, we going to get it. And you don't see people in the corners, you know what I mean? Or if you go to the basket, you spin, the next guy's right there and we'll figure out the rotation on the backside. He's made us more aggressive. Like if you close to the ball, no matter who you guarding, who it is, if you close, go get it. And like you said, generating so many turnovers, but he's brought a purpose. He's brought a mindset to our team. Um, you know, I come in early, you know, every day and I come at 5 o'clock in the morning. He's already here, you know, he's passionate about what he does every day. Like he takes it hard. Like we win by what, 37 last night. Yeah. Utah scored 107 points. He's pissed off. Like, he's mad. You know what I'm saying? Like, come in, I talk to the brother, he's, we just didn't finish the game the right way. You know what I mean? We got Draymond Green here. You know what I mean? So, but he's passionate about what he does. He brings that mentality, like no nonsense. Like when he's on the floor and we going through defense, it ain't no messing around. You know what I mean? He's locked in. And so it's been really good for us. And shout out to Stockhouse too, 'cause he's done a good job. And I played with Stack in Washington when we played with Jordan together. You know, so I love Stack.

That was the '51 game, Draymond Green. Hey, I was guarding him. T-Lou, was I not guarding you?

T-Lou, was I? Hey, they put Lee Mayline, they put Lee Mayline on Stacey Augmon, you know what I'm saying? And then you know what's crazy about that, Day Day? I looked it up the other day when, you know, he had 51 points or whatever. So I looked it up, man, I played 18 minutes, I didn't score.

Hey bro, you gotta watch the tape 'cause me and you are talking.

Yeah, yeah.

Like you gotta watch the game 'cause we just having a conversation like, oh, I'm not gonna help. And you like, well, I ain't getting the ball. I'm like, well shit, let's, I wish we had some popcorn to watch this.

Why he was mad that game, right? The reason why he was mad that game is because the game before we played New Jersey Nets and they put Kenyon Martin on him and like he struggled to score, you know, and at this point MJ's 39 years old. They was like, all you gotta do is put length and athleticism on him. He can't score, you know, bigger 6'8", 6'6", you know, they, they, he can't score on those guys, whatever. So the next night we played Charlotte and they, you know, put Lee Mayline, a couple guys on him.

Wait, uh-uh, Lee don't play defense.

Huh? Y'all had David Wesley.

Torts.

Lee Naylor, PJ Brown, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, he was on one. He was mad because, you know, he didn't play against Jersey.

You had an opportunity this summer to coach the Olympics, you know, as a part of the staff. Steve, And I'll be honest, I was one of the main people, one of the main guys saying, I don't understand how in the hell Jason Tatum's not getting any minutes. I didn't understand it. Obviously y'all going to win, but in looking back at that situation, was there something that could have been done differently? To where Jason Tatum— because now he got this vengeance against us, and I'm not sure he got that same vengeance against y'all, T-Lou, but now he got this vengeance against us. We don't really need— Right.

Um, that's my little cousin, you know.

Really?

So, yeah, from St. Louis. His dad is my, yeah, first cousin.

Wow.

Yeah, that's my— he kind of— my function's in Mexico when he was younger. So that's my cousin. So I feel bad for him, but, um, you know, we talked every single day. But the biggest thing for me, like, I ain't gonna go against coach's decision. If I'm a coach, I'm gonna stand in, you know, whatever the head coach decision they make. Um, you will have— you will never hear me say I disagree, you know, not to a player, not to anybody, because, um, you know, that's not my response. Like, my job is to be all in, you know. And so, um, but I will say, um, I like the way JT handled himself. Yeah. He was professional. He didn't try to go home. And like I said, as a guy who's been first team All-NBA 3 years in a row, you know what I mean? Coming off winning the championship, you know, won a gold medal back in, you know, '21. Like I said, it was tough for him, you know? And so I just try to talk to him. I just try to be positive with him, keeping the right head space. And like I said, I'm just glad he got through it. I'm glad he got a gold medal, like you said. He was able to play, like I said, that last game in the gold medal game. So, but I'll never be one of those guys where it's family or not. If I'm, you know, in the trenches, I'm in the trenches. You're gonna play. Yeah. You know, that's what it is. And so, but I am proud, like I said, of Lil Jay, how he handled himself and how he conducted himself throughout the, you know, the hard time and adversity of what he had to go through.

Nah, I think that's dope. Do you ultimately, I don't think Steve's gonna do it forever. Do you hope to ultimately one day take that over and be the head coach of the USA team? Is this something you wanna do again?

Yeah, I mean, I would like that opportunity because, you know, as a player, you know, you grew up with wanting to be on Olympic team. Of course I wasn't good enough, you know what I mean? But like, you know, like that's what, that was your dreams, you know, winning the NBA championship, you know, being, you know, Olympian, being able to represent your country. But now I have to do it in this capacity has been great, you know? So to be able to, you know, one day be the head coach, if that was possible, and to be able to be a young Black man to, you know, win a gold medal for your country, I think it says a lot about our youth, about, you know—

The evolution.

Kids looking up to us and, you know, seeing that, you know, young Black coach, you know, winning a gold medal for your country and representing your country, there's no better feeling than that.

If I'm still playing in 2028—

Me and Draymond coming to coach.

Uh-uh, you coaching 'cause you can't move no more. If I'm still playing, I'm in there.

Hey, hey, T-Lou, next year I'm getting invited to go to State Warriors training camp. What do you think my chances are of making the team if I'm in shape?

Well, don't guard Steph.

I'm not messing with Steph. Yeah, yeah.

How do you not love it? You gotta be 42 now?

Yeah, I'm like 38, 42.

It's over. It's a wrap. I don't know, love.

I'm like 37-43, you know.

I don't know, love. I ain't speaking on that. I never kill nobody's dreams, you know what I'm saying?

I'm telling Draymond, hey, you think I'm playing? Watch me make that fucking team next year. Back to business. You watch Steph Curry go off in the final minutes of the Olympic championship game. Against France. One, how did it feel getting a gold medal in that fashion? And like, talk about the experience now, you know, coaching Steph in the Olympics.

To finally be on this team, I felt like Bron, like, you know what I'm saying? We went to the Olympics so many times and came up short, you know? But it was really good. You know, the thing that I like the most, take me out of it, is that just KD, Steph, and Bron. Yeah. Like, you know, 3 guys, and it's like saying, our generation, like, to be able to play together on that level, you know, to represent your country, to win a gold medal together, I think that was one of the coolest moments I've seen.

Yeah.

You know, just seeing those 3 guys come together. So that was great. And then my time, like I said, I've always dreamed of being, you know, in the Olympics, you know, represent my country. And to win a gold medal, like I said, alongside of Steve. How Bron felt about Steph, I felt about Steve, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Battling every year, you know, battling, battling, you know what I'm saying? And Steve's a great coach. And to be in there with Spo and then having Mark Few from Gonzaga, who was on the staff as well, man, it was just great to just, you know, learn so much and see so much, pick each other's brains. It was an amazing experience, man. So I'm just happy that, Like Steve, you know, extended the invitation as well as Grant Hill. And it was beautiful.

Now we gonna talk a little bit about your playing career. You grew up in a small town, went to Nebraska, which we talked about, Mexico, shout out Mexico, 11,000 people. Where you wore the number, where you had a 23rd pick in the 1998 draft. You had the red, What was that, the Navigator on the '22s? Yeah. Gold, you had gold rims too, huh?

No, no, I didn't.

You had no gold rims? Oh no, no. You had them Midwest bumpkin.

Hey, hey, relax yourself, man. Relax yourself. You ain't even gotta go there.

You know Midwest, they ride golds, man.

I thought he had—

That's true.

That's true, but you—

Yeah, but no, I didn't have gold. I didn't have golds. I had the silver joints. I give shout out to Mark and Darnell, 310 Motorin'.

That's right, 310 Motorin'.

Remember that?

We was kicking that. That was going up. But '98 you got drafted. What was, who was your favorite player growing up? And then looking back on your journey, like talk about like what made, what was like your happiest moment?

My idol growing up, I mean Jordan was everybody's idol.

Yeah, for sure.

I couldn't be like Jordan, you know, I couldn't be, he's 6'6", you know, I couldn't be that. But you know, Michael Jordan was definitely everybody's idol. But someone that I loved and tried to pattern my game after, it was 3 guys actually. It was Kevin Johnson. I love KJ. I love Terrell Brandon and I love Kenny Anderson.

Mm.

Like those were my 3 guys that I looked up to and, and, um, like idolized and wanted to, you know, pattern my game after. That's why I like, I love the midrange so much because of KJ and Terrell Brandon, two of the best at doing it, you know, especially when I was coming up, you know, watching the game. And so what was your next— what was your second question, BD? Oh, my favorite moment was— it's gotta be when I got drafted and was able to buy my mom her first car.

Yeah.

You know, we never had a car growing up my whole life. And to get drafted and buy my mom that Cadillac Escalade, Fine. Sheesh. Her first car.

Big baller.

You ride to Mexico with a Cadillac Escalade, you know what I'm saying? You big baller. But that was one of my happiest moments, getting my mom, you know, the car, you know, house, my grandma house. And like for me, it's always been about just taking care of others, taking care of my family.

Yep.

And that's why I wanna do it. That's what made me so hungry. And so, you know, you think back, like I said, 20 years old, 21 years old.

Yeah.

You know, red Navigator. You know, you was at UCLA. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Having a little, At the Blue Expedition, remember that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, Draymond Green, you gotta be careful. You gotta be careful driving there, you know, around here, whatever. I said, what you mean? You driving a red Navigator? I'm like, man, I'm from the Midwest.

I ain't hear nothing. Hey, Dray, he all in Inglewood. He just going places. I'm like, bro, you can't be, you can't just be driving this red Navigator on 20s. With the, with the thump coming out of it. Oh man, I was— Yeah. Yeah, you look like—

Hey Dre, I'm like Draymond, I'm 21 years old from the hood in Mexico. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know, like I'm hanging with Pete Pierce. We worked out together every day. You know, we go and play at Rogers Park. You know, I'm, I'm just hooping. Like, I don't know.

Hey bro, he is in awe. Remember I took you to the Drew League? What'd you tell me when I took you to the Drew League? Don't ever do what?

Bring you back up here ever again. Yeah, he did. Hey, D-Day, we go down to Drew League, man. He down there, you know, you know, of course I ain't scared to go nowhere, you know, I'm, you know, I'm young, whatever. But he like Jordan down there. So we go to, he, he dropped me off. He's all over, he's talking to people. I'm by myself the whole time, man. You get Crips and Bloods and you know what I'm saying? Everything, they mugging me, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, AI just stepped over me, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? He got me talking, they talking stuff to me, you know what I'm saying? Exactly, he was not feeling that.

We was not feeling the Drew.

It was all love though. It was all love.

It was love, but it was early too. Remember you was mad 'cause it was early in the morning. You was like, "BD." Yeah.

"Come on, bro.

You got me down here. This is a gamble." And Jay, that was back, but old Drew at Drew Middle School.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

So the gym like this big, the gym like this big. So everything somebody say, you can hear.

Yeah. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. Whispering on the sidelines. But T-Lou, that was my guy, man. You held me down when I was in college. And then I wanted to share the story, you probably don't even know. Roy Williams recruited me, and when I was with the— y'all came out here for the Best in the West.

Uh-huh.

And, uh, at the time I was 5'3", and I used to watch, uh, y'all— you play for CMH. Yeah. So I was like, that's my guy. That's who, that's who I can be. When I saw you play on CMH, I was like, yo, I can be him. 'Cause I'm gonna be a little dude. And I played on Paul team. I don't even know if you remember that. I was on Paul's team.

When we played y'all in the Slam 'N Jam?

Yes, bro. Roy Williams and everybody in the camp thought I was a handicap kid.

What you mean?

Because I played with a limp. I was fresh, I was 3 days out of a broken ankle and I showed up at the Best in the West 'cause I just wanted to get recruited. So I only played garbage time, bro. And I had a limp.

I love that.

And I had a limp. I was the little dude on the team with the limp and everybody thought I was handicapped, even Roy Williams. He was like, "What happened to that handicapped kid? He was so good." I was like, "Bro, that was me." But like, you are my guy, man. You are my guy. And I never forget that. I watched that game like, damn, I'm gonna be like him, man. That little dude got game. That's right.

And he became 6'3", a perennial All-Star, max player. Praise.

Was that like one of the most shocking things that you had to deal with in like coming from a small city and like moving to like LA?

Yeah, so, I grew up in Mexico till my sophomore year in high school. And then my sophomore year in high school, I moved to Kansas City with my Uncle Kevin.

Okay.

Um, and so, 'cause like in Mexico, wasn't being recruited, you know, there's a lot of politics, you know, as far as who plays, who doesn't play. And people wasn't coming to Mexico to see, you know, see kids play, you know? And so it was hard on my mom, you know, because like to let your son go as a sophomore in high school to move, you know, to Kansas City. I went to Raytown High School. It was hard for it, but if I wanted to get to where I wanted to get to, it was the right move. You know, it was the right move. And so I played in Kansas City, went to Raytown High School, and then I played on the AAU team BD talking about with Derek Hood, you know, Jamal Walker, Manny Dot.

Yeah.

I think our whole team went D1 and the younger team underneath us that played up sometimes with Earl Watson, Corey Maggette, Jerron Rush, Coley Ognonghye. You know, so we had a good team. And that's when I got my first look because I wanted to go to Georgia Tech 'cause I was, you know, Kenny Anderson. And Bob came to one of the games and he ain't looked at me one time, you know, but it took Steph that year. It took Steph, you know, but that's when I kind of like got my name and got on the map. And that's when I started getting recruited and stuff. So it was huge for me.

Yeah, we know you played with Shaq, who's a big prankster in LA. You gotta give us a wild Shaq prank or give us, you know, I know he's one of the best teammates ever, dude.

Yeah.

Oh, one of the best teammates ever. Somebody gotta genuinely giving and taking care of people like Shaq was that. But I remember one time he asked Devin George to do something and Devin didn't do it. And so, you know, Devin, you know, late, didn't do it, whatever. So Shaq's like, all right, cool. So the night before we had a game, Devin's, you know, I think on the court shooting, whatever he's doing, the training room, whatever. So Shaq goes in the stall and he takes a shit in Devin's shoe.

Oh my God.

And so he takes it and he knocks it, he knocks it, you know, so it goes all the way down to the front of the— And so Devin comes back, goes put his shoe on, Draymond Green, And he stuck his foot in some—

Oh my God, that is crazy.

That was crazy.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Yep.

Hey, that Shaq is wild. Wow.

He's crazy. Super wild.

Devin George is a rookie at that point?

Yeah.

Oh, dude, he probably devastated AJ.

Wow, that's brutal, man.

Shaq is the biggest kid in the world, dog. Shaq is the biggest kid in the world.

You know what I give Shaq credit for is I give Shaq credit for being a megastar but living his life.

Yeah.

I mean, you, 'cause you come across guys that, you know, they won't come outta the house, you won't see 'em. Like Shaq was out every day. So then it became, oh, that's just Shaq, you know? And that's, that's why you should do it. You know what I mean? Because— like he was amongst the people. He did everything. Everything.

So he was a hero.

You can live a normal life, but if you just, you know, like locked in, you come out every now and then, people don't see you, like it's harder for you to live that life. But Shaq like, man, I'm just gonna live. And it's probably the smartest thing he ever did. You know what I'm saying? Because he was larger than life, but just to live everyday life, like, you know, like me, like he just went out every day, did whatever he wanted to do. And people was like, "Oh, it's just Shaq. We saw him last week." You know what I mean? It was cool. Like, that was crazy.

Shaq had the city on fire.

Oh yeah.

Oh my God. He had the city on fire.

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Game time. You get traded to the Lakers on draft night. First 3 years don't go your way. Fast forward to the 2001 playoffs. You find out that you guard Iverson. How was that conversation with Phil?

To backtrack, The year before, the year when Phil got there was in 2000. That's when I had messed my knee up and I got a microfracture. So I was out for 10 months. So I was out the whole year we won that first championship. And so coming back the second year, it was kind of like back and forth because they were just trying to figure out who was a good match and good fit. And so they brought in a guy, Mike Penberthy. Yeah. Who was a sharp shooter, like he could make ball all over the place. So, you know, back then if you go on IR, they, they, you gotta sit out at least 5 games. It wasn't like you were dressing. So if they put you on IR, yeah, you had to sit out 5 games. And so it was like a whole year of just back and forth with that. I'm like, I was getting so frustrated. And then one time they came and put me on IR and I remember I came in, my cousin Doodle, I threw a, you know, them like little marble fishbowls like that. I threw it through a glass table, man. He went, man, what the hell is going on? So man, he put me on IR again. I was mad, I was, you know, whatever, going crazy. But the craziest thing is, back in those days, if you go on the, um, if you get on the playoff roster, you had to be chosen. So we in the war room and he feels going around the room telling everybody who's on the playoff roster. And so at that time we had Mike Penberthy, JR Rider, myself.

Yep.

And so When he called my name in the war room, man, I jumped crazy. Kobe and them going crazy. Now everybody was happy. I was hyped. You know what I'm saying? Left Mike Pemberthy and J.R. Rider off the playoff roster. So once you off, you can't play.

It don't matter.

You can't play. Yeah, you done.

You can't play.

Wow. You can't play. Yeah. So throughout the course of those playoffs, I was playing like, you know, 10, 12 minutes a game. And what people don't realize, it would've never been me and AI if Milwaukee would've beat the Sixers in the Eastern Conference because it'd been Sam Cassell, Ray Allen.

They beat us. They beat us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't have played, you know? So, so now we get to the finals. And so the first game when I check in, like, you know, I'm AI for 2 weeks, I'm playing AI, you know, running around fast, doing all this stuff. And so, I didn't know if I was gonna play or not, but first game with 6 minutes to go in the third quarter, he had 36 points and I hadn't played yet. So the first time I checked in was 6 minutes ago in the third quarter. He had already had 36.

Oh man, that's brutal.

He was cooking that. He was cooking that game. He was cooking that game.

Oh man. So you gotta think like as a young dude, you know, growing up, same height, like I analyzed AI too, you know what I'm saying? Like even we close in age, like, That was like the culture, you know, stand up for, you know, who we are as a culture, who we are as people, and to live it on the level that he did. I mean, that was huge to me, you know? And so when I had a chance to go in the game, like I said, to step over and all that, like at the time I ain't even know it was a big deal. Like, it like he crossed me over and I fell down and, you know, like he made a shot, I contested it and I stepped on his foot, stepped over, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

But to have the But if it wasn't for that series, if it wasn't for AI, um, making it to the finals, I might be outta league that next year. Wow.

You play, you play, you balled though. You balled.

Yeah.

I mean, but that put me on the map.

That put me on the map because if I didn't have, um, that matchup with him, like I ended up playing 27 minutes a game in the finals. You know what I mean? But if I didn't have that matchup with AI, I wouldn't have had a matchup against, Toronto, who had Alvin Williams and Vince Carter. Milwaukee had, you know, Big Sam and Raymond Green and those guys, you know, BD. So I wouldn't even had a matchup. So thankfully, you know, thank God he made it to the finals and like, okay, we need a different, you know, we need a different guy to guard, you know, and that saved my career for real. So it was a blessing in disguise.

So the stepover was worth it.

It was well worth it. I'd do it again.

'Cause you know, they doing it in football. I was gonna ask you, you know, how you feel about all that, you know?

I mean, for me, I don't feel bad. Like I said, it was a part of history. It was a moment in history, you know? But like, it ain't like I got crossed over and fell down.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I contested the shot, stepped back on his foot, and I kind of rolled my ankle, you know what I'm saying? But they make a big deal of it. But like I said, hey, I was my man. Like, if I can win a championship, I'll let him step over me. Hey, Daddy, I go get a hat. Right now, come step over me right now. That part, for sure.

That part.

That part.

Oh man. You end up leaving the Lakers after that, going to the Washington Wizards. End of that September, Black Cat MJ, the Michael Jordan, decides he is going to return and play for the Wizards. How did you learn about MJ making his return and was there any indication before he announced it that he was gonna be coming back and playing that season with y'all?

So it's funny how it happened because at, you know, during that series with the Philly Lakers, you know, after that series, you know, Doug Collins, he's the one that made that stepover famous. If it wasn't for him, people probably would've made a big deal out of it. Oh, he— but then it's funny because he became the head coach the next year with the Wizards.

Wow.

And so after After him watching that series, like that's my biggest payday, you know, they gave me 2 years, $4 million, you know what I'm saying? At the time I was only making $400,000, you know what I'm saying? So like, no, $600,000. So I was like, okay, I gotta take this deal. But it was rumors that MJ might come back. But you know, MJ was part of the front office already. And so a guy you idolized and looked up to, if I could be a part of MJ, like, you know, and getting $4 million BD.

Come on, yo, come on, sign me up.

Yeah, I'm gone. You know what I'm saying? That's what happened. And then when I did sign, you know, MJ came back and like to have a chance to play with MJ, like, come on, man. Like you go from Kobe and Shaq to MJ. Like, come on. You couldn't have, you couldn't ask for, I could have retired after those 2 years of MJ. I could have retired there and been the happiest man in the world.

You know what I'm saying? For real.

Nobody would ever think you'd be that blessed to, you know, to have that, you know, play with Kobe, Shaq, and Jordan. Sure.

That's crazy.

Come on.

Only you and Horace Grant.

Oh wow.

Yeah, yeah.

I know we talked about MJ dropping 51 on us, but I was happy MJ came back that year 'cause I had 30 the game before and I was MJ that night. So I just show my kids that, you feel me? Hey, if Jordan don't come back, I don't get 30, I can't tell my kids that I played. They wouldn't believe I even played if it wasn't for that damn dunk. But like one of the most iconic plays, one of the most iconic plays of MJ's career was the chase down block on Ron Mercer. What was that? That was crazy.

Oh, so you just around chase down blocks? That's just your thing?

Nah, I mean, I guess, I mean, I missed, I mean, I was part of it 'cause I was there when Tayshaun blocked Reggie Miller.

That's crazy.

Layup, 'cause I was watching for championship. That's your Pistons day there. Yeah.

Wow, you were there.

There for that.

Just bad luck.

There for Bron. Bron. Bron on Iguodala, and then Jordan on Mercer when he hit it against the glass, two-hand. Wow.

Yeah, that was crazy. And Ron Mercer was like an All-American. I thought that was the thing that killed his confidence after Jordan did that.

He was the only one in our class too.

Yeah, he was, yeah.

Yeah, him and KG, him, KG, Steph, you know, but like Ron Mercer was, shout out to Ron Mercer.

There was a legendary 2010 pickup team.

Oh, in Vegas, yeah.

There was a legendary pickup team in Las Vegas, Impact, known for trading, no, it was a league. I think they trying to give y'all credit.

It wasn't a league.—

It was just runs, but y'all cheated all the time, bro. Y'all cheated. You, Chauncey, y'all was cheating, bro.

Dey Dey, let me tell you what happened. So in, you know, in the league, I was a solid player, but in the summertime—

Oh my God. Oh my God. Hey, bro. Oh my God.

Him all alone.

And so we had— you gonna like this story too because he's your partner, Dey Dey. So we played best of 7 series every day for 2 months. We had the same team. We didn't lose a series for 2 months. And the team we had was just all guys that were just like middle of the pack players, you know what I'm saying, in the NBA. But like together it was me, Tayshaun, Jared Dudley, Patrick O'Brien, and our best player was Allen Anderson.

Wow. Oh my God.

Draymond Green.

Oh my God, dude.

Jordan that summer. Hey, hey, Dada, he was Jordan that summer.

Diabolical, bro.

Like it was just running thing. Like we never got beat. So they brought in Beatty and Steven Jackson and Matt Barnes, Ron Artest. Guys was flying in LA like, are we gonna beat this team? Nobody beat us the whole summer. Chauncey, Kyle Lowry, J-O. We, hey, everybody.

Y'all read, y'all read, y'all read, y'all read the show. I ain't gonna even lie. We could have beat y'all, but remember I had Tony Allen on my team. Ain't dog. And T.A., oh my God. T.A., pass the ball, bro. I'm out here working on my game too, OG.

Like nah, not today, bro.

Get up. Hey, Dey Dey, we blitzing, picking rolls.

Hey bro, they call it sets.

Yeah, we rotate, J-O catching the post with Patrick O'Brien. We come double team, he kicking the ball. Yo, double team!

Hey, dawg, dudes was mad, frustrated.

Hey, that's funny. I can't remember if it was that summer, but I know I had been up to Impact when you were up there, T-Lou. 'Cause I remember the day that I was up there, Big Baby was up there. D. Jones came in yelling to the top of his lungs, talking shit to everybody. Then you came in, 'cause Joe D. Yeah.

Yeah.

Joe D. had sent me, Jordan, a couple more of our friends out there to train for like 4 or 5 days. So we was out there training at Impact.

Yeah, on the little side court.

Hey, relax yourself, bro. Like, we got main court work. Joe Dumas sent us, we got main court work. Court work.

Stop it, man. Remember the little side court and then the defunct court on the—

All right, it's cool, it's cool. Y'all both, y'all both old as hell now. How about that?

I'm feeling it too, I'm feeling it.

Hey, T ain't gonna say that when I make the team next year.

Y'all both old as hell now. You wanna, nah, take the side court.

But Joe Bounassar, man, he had, he ran a good, he ran a hell of a—

Yes, he did.

Shout out to Joe. He, with Impact, man, that was huge though.

That was good. Yeah, nah, he did a great job for sure. T-Lou, what's your biggest coaching what if?

What if Bron stays in Cleveland and what if KD doesn't go to Golden State?

Oh, that's a good one. What player is the hardest to game plan for?

It's always been Steph. Like, you know, I think, you know, Steph is, I mean, is one of the hardest, I mean, the hardest guy in the game playing for, because of like everything he creates. He creates everything off his movement.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, and people always wanna try to duplicate, you know, what Golden State does, but you can't duplicate that because your best player who was a Hall of Famer, who was top 5 player in the league, like that's how he wants to play. You know, so they gotta, they come, man, why we don't like, you know, No, Kawhi's not gonna run around like that.

He not.

Oh, Draymond Green gonna run around like— James Harden ain't gonna run like that. Like, you know what I mean? So you can't duplicate that. And that's why I always say like, you gotta coach to your personnel, not to your system. You know what I mean? Your personnel has to fit your system. If not, you gotta change and do different things. Like every year I coach different. I got a different system, you know, every year. But Steph is the player that loves to play that way. You know what I mean? When you have your best player that wants to play that way, it's easy to do because everybody falls in line. But if you don't have that personnel and have the guys to do that, it's hard to play that style of basketball. Totally.

No, 1000%.

I totally agree.

We always in for a good list before we get outta here. Appreciate you taking all this time, by the way. I hope I, I hope I cost y'all a loss so we can catch up with y'all. But you know, that's another, that's another story.

"We gonna play for a couple days." You know what I'm saying?

We always love a good list. So I'mma ask you this question. I also love that it's become more of a thing. Like there's more of us and like that's the way it should be. Your top 5 coaches that are players that turned coaches of all time.

Man.

What are the qualifications though? Do it just— dudes who coached or—

No, they were NBA players.

And good coaches.

And then, and they are the top 5. They were NBA players.

Oh, got it.

The top 5 coaches that were players turned coaches.

Got it. I would say Doc Rivers.

Uh-huh.

Doc. I would say Al Adams.

Oh, the great Al Adams. RIP.

The great Al Adams.

I would say Bill Russell. Oh my God. Casey Jones. And then probably Lenny Wilkins.

No Phil? No way.

Oh, Phil, yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah.

I mean, great coach, but I, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But like Phil, like Phil's like kind of grandfather. Then like we talk about the most, Shaq. No, no, you don't count Shaq. We don't, you know what I'm saying? Like you in your own stratosphere. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, I mean, yeah.

I feel like Phil and Pat is in like their own, In another ballpark.

Yeah. You put me on this, yeah, forget about Pat.

Yeah, Pat Riley, that's another one, huh?

You gotta ask me, I gotta write that down first and then I gotta, you know what I'm saying?

Here's the thing though, T-Lou, I love Pat, I love Phil, but it's the same thing kind of ends up happening with MJ where you like, yo, he in his own ballpark. But like, nah, but like people can catch up. You know what I'm saying? Like people have put Phil again, and Phil and Pat, Nobody's caught up, but, ah, maybe Pop. Nobody's caught up, but we always put these guys in these categories like they can't, their stuff can't be touched. But like, it's guys working towards that. Like, I feel like when people talk to GOAT debate, for instance, a lot of people just say like, Brian, like they ain't gonna say it's Brian or they ain't gonna say it's Kobe because they come after MJ. Not saying that they are better, but just because you come after, don't like, What is it that has to go on for someone to be like, okay, they are in that category with Phil and the Godfathers, Phil and Pat?

You can win. You know, I think the biggest thing when you look at that, no matter who's on a team or who's playing, like you gotta win at a high level, you know? And so I look at Pat Riley, when I look at Phil, like they won at an elite level. Like you said with Pop, 5 rings. Steve Kerr, 4 rings. You know, so like they've won at an elite level. And so I just, I base everything off winning, you know, me, you know. And so when you look at Pat Riley, you look at Red Auerbach, you look at, you know, Phil Jackson, like it's, I mean, I know you shouldn't exclude them, but like they're just in their own league.

Yeah, for sure.

You know what I mean?

For sure. Then, and then you just kind of go from there, but. Man, now we gotta start all over again then, Dede.

Let's go, go for it.

We got about Steve Kerr.

Stevie Kerr.

Yeah, Steve Kerr.

I was going to Stevie Kerr next.

But you forget like the players that actually coached, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like, so Steve Kerr, Doc, Doc.

Lenny Wilkins.

Lenny. Are you basing it off like—

I was basing it off of your hoop game and then how you won as a coach.

Yeah, was you like, was you a solid player? Like, was you a solid player in the hoop game and solid as a coach, you mean? Yeah. Like, is that, I mean—

All right, well, you know what we gonna do? We gonna go mixing the player and the coach. The greatest of all time, Stevie Kerr, you drop out, my friend.

Oh no. Oh no.

He made one of the biggest shots in the NBA.

He did, but he made the shot. Like, come on.

Steve Kerr got me socked.

I love Stevie Kerr, that's my guy.

Who just like— Steve Kerr got me socked in my chest in San Antonio.

He gonna flash his championship rings on me.

And he had— and he had the highest 3-point percentage I think in NBA history.

He did!

He did it's Steve Kerr was tough, Dre. I ain't rolling this stuff.

Players you got Steve Kerr, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley.

Doc all-star?

Doc... Bill Russel of course. Got Vinnie Wilkins who was my number one pick. Right, Lenny.

Yep, Lenny Wilkins won one as a player and a coach too.

It's tough. Then he won, yeah.

It's tough.

Yeah, it's tough.

It's tough. Those lists are always tough, man. We respect all them GOATs, by the way.

This is just for us. Magic Johnson.

Magic was an awful coach.

No, he wasn't an awful coach. When you have great players that try to coach, they don't have the patience.

That's a fact.

Zeke, we see you.

Yeah, like, yeah, like Magic, I'm never gonna be you. Like, you can't get mad at me because I can't throw over the head.

You can't do that.

When you're great like that, they don't have the patience to, you know what I'm saying? To do it. They didn't think everybody's gonna be as great as them, but it don't work like that.

Nah, for sure. We respect all these greats. We love 'em. T-Lou, man, we can't thank you enough. Thank you enough, my brother. This was incredible. Hey, and by the way, I gotta share this story before we go. I had, I was going through my stuff last year and I talked to T-Lou face to face, fresh on suspension. And T-Lou told me something very interesting and I'll be trying to practice that. And I will say I've taken steps in the right direction, meaning I pick and choose. T. Lou said, "Draymond, you gotta still be you." He's like, "You ain't special not being you." He's like, "That's what make you special. You have to be you and you have to play with that same fire and you have to be that same guy." He said, "But it can't be everybody. Like it can't be you going at your teammates and then going at your coach and then going at the referees and then going at players on the other team." "It can't be everybody. You gotta like, maybe you at the referees. All right, cool. Move on." Right? Like he said, "But you can't, it can't be everybody." And I just wanted to share that. And I just wanted to say thank you because that at that time was huge for me. And it's actually a lot better for me and implemented in that, you know, some games I'm like, "Yo, I'm at this dude today." Some games I'm like, "Yo, it's a referee. I really don't like him. I'm at him right now." Like— Right. You know, but, but it is like, yo, pick and choose. Like, it can't be this, can't be that, can't be this, can't be that. And so I, number one, I wanted to say thank you for that gym, um, that free game. I appreciate that, my brother. But that was, uh, that was big for me.

Yeah, I mean, because he brings so much to the game. And like you said, you know, when you, when you're, when your mind's everywhere, you can't focus on, on what you're trying to focus on. And so you can't be mad mad at the players, mad at the refs, mad at the other team, mad at the fans.

You know what I'm saying?

And now it's time for you to swing, swing, you got a shot. You so wound up, like you ready to fight everybody in the building. By the time you get a shot, you can't even land the shoot. You know what I'm saying? But no, like I said, I do, you know, appreciate what you bring. Like, you like a brother to me, you know? So I just wanted to, you know, it wouldn't be right if I didn't tell you like, you know, what I thought. And you can take and do what you want with it, but like, you know, "I just didn't feel like I would've been a brother if I didn't tell you like, you know, this is how it should be." So I'm glad you're able to implement that and kind of go from there.

I appreciate you, brother. In the words of BD, the T-Louisms. It's a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green Show. Shout out to you fans. We appreciate y'all tuning in. Until next time, the Draymond Green Show with my dawg BD. It's a wrap.

Yeah.

Peace.