Tackling Daddy Issues: Uplifting Path to Healing!

Well, hey everyone, I'm Justin.

And I'm Courtney.

And we want to welcome you guys again to Made for Mondays. I want to let you know that you're Made for Mondays. Mondays own you. You own your Mondays. And I'm super glad that you are tuned in with us today as we continue our journey of what it means to be Made for Mondays. And today we have another topic, but I thought before we jump into it, we do another fun game. I'm not great at these, but I thought we'd play this or that. Okay, so I thought this or that. In terms of cooking.

Okay.

All right, so in terms of cooking and this or that. In terms of cooking and so I'll ask you this or that and then we'll do what your winner is for this or that. Alright, so do you like organic food or like basic processed food?

That's a hard one. I think some things I like organic, but I'm okay with them.

Basic. So which one? Organic or conventional?

I guess I'm like conventional.

Okay. Conventional. Gas stove or electric stove?

Gas all the way.

Okay. Barbecue. Actually, let me back up. Oh no, this is cool. Okay, so nevermind. I messed up. Okay, let me start the game over. I'm okay with these games. All right, so. Okay, so we're gonna do this. Sorry, you guys get. Forgive me, I'm not the game person. So garden your own personal garden or the farmer's market it.

Oh, I would love to grow things in my own personal garden, but I don't do that. So I only have first market. But I pick, I guess. I don't know I much I would love to do personal garden things.

Okay, so garden groceries or eating out?

I'm team eating out.

Team eating out.

But based on your service series, I'm about to cut back, clear out and.

Sit down A hot meal or cold meals? By cold meal mean like deli food and stuff like that. Or salads or hot stuff.

Like hot. I'm a hot person.

Okay. All right, so you're a hot person. All right, so let's go back to the beginning. So conventional basic food where the hens are oppressed or your own garden.

Or my own garden.

Yeah.

My own garden.

Okay. Eating out or hot food?

Hot food.

All right, so you prefer hot food from your own garden.

Okay.

Yay. I don't know. I'm bad at these games. Oh, geez. Okay.

What?

I'm done with games. Oh, okay, let's get. You guys are here for the podcast. I am like literally trying here.

I need to get not you had a whole, like. You had like, a whole magazine quiz. Like, I'm proud of you. Normally, I'm the game. I'm the, like, game. Icebreaker. Shorter. So I'm really proud of you for, like. That was good. I enjoyed it. That was a stretch.

Today we're talking about if we're going to expand our capacity. Daddy trauma. Yeah, that's what's on my mind, I guess. I read this book called Home Run by Kevin Myers and John Maxwell, and this guy told the story. And it was very similar to my own when it comes to, like, dads. And as I am navigating through what it means to be a dad, and I have a lot of my friends now, it's crazy. I was talking to Terrence and it was funny because it was like, I remember when we first met, right? And now we're both dads and, you know, all that type of stuff. And a lot of my friends were not just like, dudes anymore. We're dads, and people went to college with all of that. And it's different being a dad. And I was reflecting on my own, right? And just part of my own story. So my father, he left our family when I was in high school and just dipped out, stayed around. He like, domestic violence type stuff. He was already gone for years. But the last day, he and I got into a massive fight. Like, a massive fight. And he came at me with a hatchet because at the time I was playing football, I was weightlifting every single day. I was in powerlifting. I mean, I was lifting weight. You know, I was offensive and defensive alignment. And he came at me with something, realized he couldn't overpower me, so they came up with that. My mom got in the middle of it and sent me out because she literally told me later, she was like, your future is too bright to end it all with him, right? And so I got into my car, drove around, called police, police came, arrested him, and that was the last time I saw my dad until some years later, I met up with him with you. That's the only way I was going to talk to him. As if you were there. And then he didn't want to talk to me, right? He didn't even want to talk to me. We got there and he didn't even want to talk when we got there.

He didn't want to have a one.

On one on one conversation. It was. It was always group conversations. And anytime we brought anything like that up, it was always my mom's fault. Mom's fault. Mom's fault and all of that and just made me think about a lot of things. Like things that he did when I was a kid, things I saw, things I witnessed. Like, I remember, like, one of the reasons, like, it's crazy to me when people talk about finances and pastors in churches. I remember the day where we went to get a haircut and he was trying to pay for our haircut with a church check. I was like, what do you have church checks for?

Wow.

And it was things like that. So, like, a reason I'm, like, so particular about, Like, I don't even want to be near it because I'm like, I don't ever want to be in a situation where I'm tempted to use church checks and hide that. Right. And all of that, you know? And so the book I was reading, I'm working on some stuff myself. But as I'm thinking through a lot of this, I think it's. I think so often. And not just black communities, but white communities as well. Like, I didn't realize how many homes have been fractured in light communities, too. So this is not just a black thing, it's a brown thing, it's a white thing. No matter who you are, for some reason, masculinity is comfortable departing. And we're just so comfortable with throwing crap at women, throwing kids at women, and thinking that we can parent our children on the weekends. And even when we're in relationships. The one thing you don't do in our home, which I really appreciate is I'm not just reserved for the fun stuff or discipline. Right. It's a balance where, like, we're both making sure he takes a bath and we're both present in everything he does. And not that we get it right all the time, but I thought it'd be meaningful to think about one of the areas that forbid us or stop or slow down progress in our lives are the things we don't talk about. And even as I think about my own leadership, there have been so many times where I have looked down on deacons or leaders, men in my churches, because they resemble or reflect or anything. My father or. They have such a tight household that I'm jealous and don't realize how. How the things we deal with on our personal lives as leaders without reconciling them can really have a harm. So I thought it'd be meaningful to discuss daddy trauma.

Yeah. There's so much in that. There's, like, so much to unpack with even just everything that you say. So for the past four Years my career has been dedicated working specifically with women are those that identify or birthing people who are carrying a child physically and working with them on all sorts of topics and coaching them. Right. To like, you know, take care of themselves. Because postpartum is the number one killer for. For moms who are of color, particularly black women in that postpartum stage, because it just gets so unbearable. Right? From physical body changes to caring for the child itself and all the stuff that goes with adding a new child to the system. Right. And for so often we've talked about in our own organization. Wow. Like, we really should like extend this to fatherhood too. Right? Like fatherhood, they need like, well being care too, and like coaching and paternal health. And what does that look like and how do we navigate through this? Because I think there are just lessons as people we just aren't taught. You're never taught how to be a parent. Right. Like, I know there's no book there because every child is different. But just like the core basics be present. Right. Or like, what are the common triggers if this is a common problem that we see throughout just families and things of like, how do we help prepare? And I think this is our time now to reflect on our own journeys through fatherhood. But then also, how do we prepare those that are in our generation or those coming up, or even those that are before, even as grandfathers, to like, be better? Like, how do we be better? Families, I think is really good. And having a goal of a healthy, not a perfect family, because there's no family that's perfect, but a healthy family.

I think one of the starting places is saw this this week and it was talking about acknowledging the elephants, right? And this guy talked about having the fine family. Like, how's your family? Fine. How's home? Fine. How's this? Fine. Not knowing that you argued all the way. Like using my own story, right? So we would go to church on Sundays. We go to church on Sundays. I hadn't seen my dad all week. Like, my dad would preach on Sundays. I wouldn't see him all week. Wow. And I'm not just like exaggerating. Like, I would not see him. My mom would work in downtown Milwaukee. We lived in the suburbs of Brook of Milwaukee, about 20 minutes outside the city. And so she would, she would get up early and take care of everything and do be gone, just gone. Not working, just gone. And we get together Saturday night or Sunday morning. Sometimes we meet up at a place near the church or we'd meet up at the house we drive to church, act like a perfect family. So how's everything? Fine. How's things going? Fine to a point. To how bad it was. He got up on time and was trying to joke and say, like, you know, he came to my football games, which he never did. And he said I was a wide receiver. I wore number 77. I was 6, 4.

I just found out this year that numbers in football correlate with the position.

So, like, my mom would be there in the snow and the rain, all of that. My sister would be there. I was number 77.

Wow.

I played on Thursdays for JV, played on Fridays for varsity. I was number 77. I was a lineman. I was a fat lineman.

You are fat.

And dude said that I was a wide receiver. I never across the pulpit and my boy Will was sitting next to me. He was like. Cuz we. He played at Vincent in Milwaukee. He was like, what? Cuz he was aligned. And we had one time we actually played against each other.

Yeah.

And so it was. What? What? And it was just so funny because it was just like, you're so out of tune. And I would beg for him to come to things, man. And he would. But it said a lot because it was like people in church asked, how are you guys doing? Fine. Pastor anniversary, come up. How you doing? Fine. Things are fine. Get up there. My mom was very careful with the words. She would never, like, affirm him publicly. My sister and I wouldn't either. We'd just be like, you know, it's really good to be here and stuff like that. But it became really detrimental because it was like, church was never, like, a fun place for us. But not just blaming church. It wasn't. Church wasn't the people. Because people were cool. They were just going what we told them. So they saw the pastor's family coming in one car. They saw us showing up. They saw all of that, but they never. No one saw. And it's not the responsibility to see. They never saw the other sides of it. And so we.

It was like a role.

Yeah. And so it was like the elephant in the room was addictions and frustrations and distance. Right. And. But I think for families, for us to address those things that we have to talk about, like, not just Daddy's not there, but Daddy's addicted to something, or Mom's addicted to something. Right. And I think we have so many elephants in our homes that when we don't talk about them, we end up getting comfortable with the elephant. And the elephant takes up so much.

Space Takes up so much space. And that goes to the bigger notion of, like, accountability. And accountability is huge in everything that we do, right? So it's like, wow. One thing we have to realize with accountability, someone. Accountability is always in the situation. Someone always has to bear the brunt of it, right? And normally it's the person whose job it is that they don't ever take it, right? So it falls on something. And it seems like even what you're saying in your life, it falls on you. And I think in a lot of families, even my own, like, it fell on my mom. You fell on, like, other things. Because it's like, I don't want to take accountability for what I have or what I did or what I said or what I drank or what I smoked or what I. What I did. So someone has to hold it.

That's it.

And as a kid, wow. I can only imagine you, like, navigating through that, right? Like, navigating and holding on to that responsibility, right? Like, holding on to that as a male child and as a eldest. As the eldest male child to be like, okay, well, I have to take the brunt up for this because, I mean, what is my mom gonna do, right? Like, how is my mom gonna cope? How's my sister, like, gonna cope? She needs a great male figure. Like, is this. Like, my mom needs a someone to step in, right? To do, like, male things and to. To help with that, like, around the house, to lift things, to. To do things. Like, all the holes I have to fill it. And then I also have to grow myself. I have to do it. And so either, like, I think in a lot of families, it's either, like, the child that has to take it on, the other parent that has to take it on, where you become, like, this super being, right? And then that just puts you in a whole different, unfairly of. Of class of, like, responsibility.

I remember that. You know, and if we're gonna navigate it, you know, it's. I said the statement at church that recognizing that it can explain behaviors, but it doesn't excuse behavior.

Yeah, right.

And one of the things. So as I'm trying to grow and continuing to grow through this, there's something. I look at my life where I'm like, man, I missed it there. Like, we talked last week about attention seeking, right? And likability traps and the things like, my dad was into, like, drugs and he's just a lot of other stuff. I didn't want to be in ministry because I'm like, I look like this dude. Right. It's just all these different things. Explain things, but doesn't excuse things. And reconciling that truth. Right. That. It's like, I used to have a really bad anger issue. Really bad anger issue. Like, I swung on a kid in middle school and I. Really bad anger issue that only got worse. And that's why I got so distant from people in college. I used to. I don't have anymore. I've had a really bad anger issue and really bad loner. And then just, like, the weight of, like, life. And I'm not. It's not even a blame thing for so long. I won't share this, like, daddy trauma stuff. We end up blaming a lot of people and blaming things on them because they're not in the room. Like, it's very easy to blame people who are in the room.

Yeah.

But it's like they. They aren't the ones who swung. They aren't the ones who spent it. They aren't the ones who went and did it. And I think if we're gonna heal from daddy trauma, we have to acknowledge the gap that was taken.

Yeah.

And the things that you had to learn sometimes from the wrong sources.

Yeah.

Right. So it's like, I'm over here. I remember college, man. Like, I'm. I'm watching other people in worship trying to figure out, like, I didn't know how to tie a tie where my dad live. Right. So I know how to tie a tie. I did not know how to tie a tie. And so it was before, like, YouTube was, like, a big thing. And so I was trying to figure out how to tie a tie. So I remember Deacon of the church. I was preaching someplace, and he tied a tie for me. And so every week for a couple months, I came to church with a different untied tie. And he tied it. I just never untied them. Right. I just kept the ties tied.

Yeah.

So that I could have a tie. Because I never knew how to tie a tie.

Right.

It was certain things like that, you know, and it's. It's being honest about it. Like, in talking to people now, it's like, well, for me, if we're gonna heal from this stuff and navigate it, it's acknowledging the elephant. Realizing it doesn't explain. Just because it explains it doesn't excuse it. It's also the realization of, like, the steps that you have to take consistently to not fall, not necessarily into the traps of what they did, because that's unfair to you and to them as well. But realizing that like, they're not living your life today.

That's it.

And that's the part, I think that growth has to happen. Right. Because if not, then we make the mistake of thinking that. Or, like, I've done that. Like, you know, they made me make decisions or they did that. No, you talked about it. You did it. You. And, like, while it was. It's informed from a base. You can change the future. Yeah, it's informed from someplace, but it's. It doesn't either. And if you don't learn from it, you end up doing the same crap over. And you're perpetuating the same system, and then you look up, and you're the same person. But I think that that's something I'm recognizing. I never. But. And also, last thing. Sorry, I'm just talking, but not trying to be the parent you didn't have.

Yeah.

You know, Cam doesn't need who my father wasn't. Cam doesn't need who my father was. Kim needs me.

Right.

You know, and that. And for those of you watching and listening, whether it's fathers or mother trauma, I think that's the truth.

That's so the truth. It's. It's important in what you're saying, too. And I think I really encourage everyone that's even listening to this, like, no matter what your relationship is in your life with your parents, whether that's, you know, fatherhood drama, motherhood drama, whatever that looks like, is to sit and what I tell my own clients is to sit and, like, do the tracing, right? You can't reach your goals and who you are. Like, hey, I'm gonna be a great parent. I want to be a great father, a great mother. You can't reach those goals unless you do the work of, like, what's preventing you from getting to that go. And so I had the opportunity a few weeks ago, too, of, like, you know, why does it bother me so much when people, like, leave my life? We had an episode about a most recent one about people pleasing, right? And, like, we went through a season of, like, losing just a lot of people, losing people through death, losing people just who have just walked out that we thought were, like, really great friends of ours that, you know, we were so, like, happy with. And, like, wow, what a great community. And it just all fizzled away suddenly, you know? And that hurt. That hurt me a lot. Like, we've dealt with a lot of church drama, right? Like, we're not new to this. It's comical most of the time, but this hurt. This Hurt, I mean, like, tears hurt, like, sad. Like, it's really hard to get me sad. I'm really always good at being optimistic, looking at the positive things in life. And granted, I had a lot of other things going on in life too, just personally, but it saddened me, right? And I had to sit down with, like, the hurt and the pain. And I was like, you know, let me trace this. Like, where I had to do a lot of work. I'm like, where is the root? Right? And I will say, like, talking to someone, like a therapist really helped me too. She gave me a resource about, like, attachment styles that was really, like, helpful to see, like, how I attach to the people in my life, given, like, my past history or that. And so I don't think I've ever sat down and done that work, right? Of like, okay, where did this come from? Why does, like, when people leave and people leave all the time in church all the time, but why did this hurt so bad? Like, why does this do that? And I'm like, I, you know, I don't lose a lot of people in life, not from my own. Like, I was. Whatever. I'll be a chameleon to, like, affect and be and please. And even if you're not good for me or even if I think you're a lousy friend, I'm just not vocal enough or like, you know, not the type to, like, I just would just, like, kind of, like, not talk. I just not the type to be like, you're a terrible friend. And like, because I don't want to cause that type of discomfort to you because I, like, care about the things going on in your life. Who needs to hear that they're a terrible friend? But okay, so I did a lot of work and I did a lot of, like, tracing back from people pleasing. And it came back to, like, abandonment, right? Where, Where. Where would I have been abandoned? Like, because you couldn't tell me, like, in my childhood, if you were to ask me, do I have trauma, I'd be like, I had a really good childhood. You know, I was raised from a single mother my whole entire life. Like, I do not know my father at all. Like, I never met the man, never seen the man. I do not know him at all. And my mom, such an amazing mom and such an amazing parent that, like, she was like, two parents and one, like, I never even knew what I didn't have. Like, I didn't know. And so going through that, though. But there's a reason why God created this, like, male and female type parenthood, right? Of creating a child, because you need both, both the masculine and the feminine of, like, raising a child. I think that's important to who we are. And although my mom was an outstanding mom, I'm realizing that just not even having that other parent planted a seed of, like, abandonment, right? Like, it planted that seed of abandonment, and that seed grew to, like, okay, what? Well, you have to please people, because if you don't please people, they will go away. And even though that's crazy, because, like, I was a baby, there's nothing that I could have done. There's nothing that I did to make him go away. There's nothing that I did of my fault. So there's nothing that I could do of pleasing to keep him or to bring him or to. To do those things. And, you know, even my mother, she has her own complicated story around things. And just, like, hearing her story, which is a gift to have, but, like. But somewhere along the way, I told myself, like, maybe if I was better, maybe if I was this, maybe if I was enough, like, he would want to stay around, maybe I'm more successful, or maybe if I'm out there and I'm seen more, and he's like, oh, wow, is that my child? I want to go. I want to meet her, because she's this and she's that and she's that. And maybe something I can do to make me have a complete, you know, parenting circle and that, you know, I had to realize that abandonment that was planted, that I'm sure my mom wanted to shield me from. But that abandonment that was planted for so long ago, that even plays out, right? And so you can't go back in time. You can't, you know, do that. But what I have now is saying, like, okay, my who's in my life is who's supposed to be in my life, and who's not in my life is who's not supposed to be in my life, right? And I absolutely. Anything that I have done, taking accountability in my actions of any relationships that I've had, like, to be responsible for that, but anything but there's a lot of things that have happened in my life that are just, quite frankly, not my fault. Right? And I don't have to change myself in any way to appease those people. And that's the beautiful gift that I had to do with myself and to do that work, right? To do that work. And so I encourage listeners on that, no matter what relationship that you're struggling with, whether that's a parent, a grandparent, family members, close friends, whatever that looks like, to do the work of saying, what have I picked up along the way? What seeds have been planted that I have watered in my own self and now have? Like. Like yielded the fruit of people pleasing, yielded the fruit of like, I'm not enoughness, yielded the fruit of depression and anxiety, yielded the fruit of all these things. Trace it back and do the work and then let it go.

And that is the marker, I think, of intense growth is when you're able to look at the very things, not necessarily that were designed to kill you, look at the very things that for years bothered you and for years you held onto and be willing to move forward, to unearth it, to find it, to kill it, to go forward. And it's not easy. You know what I mean? Last year, my mother passed away. And it's crazy. You know, guys, one of the things I said, everyone listening and watching this, this is not like scripted. So we have like, there's no order of worship. You know, my. My mother passed away. And I remember my mother passed away and I don't have my dad's number. Say my number hasn't changed since high school. So I mean, like, I've had the same phone number since 2006. So my mother passed away and I get a text message from some seven, some number, and I know who it is, right? At first. And then I keep looking at it and I do some googling and I find out where it is, and I'm like, oh, this is my dad, right? People that reached out to him that still connected to him on Facebook or something. And I know mom passed away. I know that. I'm praying for you guys. Then I found his Facebook page and saw that he had put up this whole status about pray for my kids and all of this, and then saw that he had shared pictures of us and all. I'm like, we haven't talked in like 10 years now, right? We have not talked at all. And outside of the one instance in Colorado when you wouldn't have a one on one conversation with me, we haven't talked. Like, nothing. No conversation, no nothing, right? And so he reached out and then he sends this message saying, I deleted it.

I should.

I wish I kept it. I just didn't want even know where his number was. But it was something like, if you need me present at the funeral, I'll be sure to be there to support you and Camille.

Mm. Camille, your sister?

Yeah, my sister. And I almost like I wanted to just like, go off, right? I wanted to, like, like support, like Drake, right? Like, support. You want to support now? Like what? Like, and I remember that. And it was just like I was trying to be kind. Nah, I'm good. And we had security to make sure he wasn't going to be in the building. So afterwards, after it's all over, I get this message, man. Because he found himself about the house, whatever. And so my sister, in a very wise way, you know, he reaches us out and we had this group message because we're like, cool, let's. Let's see where this goes. My sister, she's a, she's a therapist. And so she told him, I'll talk to you, but we're gonna do therapy.

Wow.

We're gonna do therapy together.

And what a beautiful gift that response was.

He had a great gift.

This was an amazing grace filled gift.

And because he was like, I have grandkids. I never met them. And Camille's like, and you won't because.

You have kids that you haven't met.

You have kids that are like. And for my sister, he left when she was in seventh grade. So this girl has had to look to her brother. Not that she ever looked at me, but looked for her brother as like the. And I felt like you said, it's like, you know, the weight of masculinity in our home because my mom's trying to find a job. My sister is going into high school and puberty with a dad I'm trying to protect her from. Right. Church that's been stripped from her childhood friends. She's not like, she's like 18. Yeah, 12. Yeah. And so anyway, so afterwards he reached out again and it was. Camille said that whole thing, it's about, you know, we're going to go to therapy because we're going to start our relationship first when we start another relationship. And he refused it. Refused it. I will not do this, not do that. Narcissism, man. And I had an anchor issue that me and God worked on back in like 2017. But yeah, you had to grab me and you saw me getting boiling hot. And you and you and Camille's husband were having another tech specialist list. Like, oh my God, is Camille okay? And Camille's having a panic attack and I'm going crazy over here. And Cam's like, what is wrong with daddy? I'm shaking. And this dude begins to just proceed to send stuff. And I did not realize all this, to say this, what had been sitting inside of me since that 17 year old came Home and saw him beating my mom up.

Yeah.

Everything from. Do you realize what I had to work, had to do, had to table, had to try to do the multiple jobs, the grades that suffered, the scholarships I lost. And it was just all this stuff built up because we went from two incomes to. No, his. He had two jobs to nothing.

Yeah.

Right. And so, like, I'm in high school, man. I'm about to graduate from high school, and it's just like, what in the world? And, you know, I remember, and it's. All of that came out. All of it came out like, do you understand the crap I've been through, the things that I've done? Yeah. For that, I. And to see that. And then, like, the reason this even came up for me in a place to heal and talk through was he attends a church now where it's a guy. I know the pastor. I know the Pat. We're in a group message like, I know the pastor. And he was in the pulpit on this guy's first Sunday, laying hands on him. And it just. It just. Something in me was just like.

I think the boy in you was like, where was that?

Hands on someone my age with. With a little kid. And then he had a nerve. Two other things. Sorry. And I'm just done. Because it's all things I'm working through. That's what Funny. I heard the man preach for the first time since I was a kid. He was my pastor for 17 years. He's my pastor. He's my dad. He's my pastor, the only man I knew. And he copied one of my sermons, which was hilarious to me. Like, one of my. I'm like, okay, I know I'm preaching now, but he copied one of my sermons, right? Yeah, right. He was good at copying sermons, and he was copying one of my sermons, and not just copying one of my sermons, but then had the nerve to have an analogy using him hanging out with his two grandkids watching SpongeBob SquarePants. And our son can't stand SpongeBob, and my nephew is still, like, watching. We were watching the ghetto ABCs. What is that? Gracie's Table. Gracie's Corner. Gracie's Table's a great restaurant. Unplugged. What is it?

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Unpaid advertisement. And so it was just a lot that came out for me about a month and a half ago. That on top of everything else we were dealing with, but a month and a half ago. And that's why, honestly, you guys, we had a month hiatus because we just literally just. And I can't wait to talk about that probably in a year. But when things boil over. But we just. We just there just all of that came out. And I remember the moment I saw that. And you and Bran were just like, do not get on YouTube to look at people's livestreams. Block the page, block this. Like, why are you watching that on Sunday? And it was just like. Because I was just like, why? What is it about? And like, for me, to be honest, what is it about him? So I was listening to this dude and I'm literally, my head, like, tearing this guy down. I don't even know. Well, I know him, but I don't know him like that. And I'm like, literally, I was contemplating going to the guys install because I was just like. And so I was in Atlanta. I was in Atlanta in August, and I was six blocks away from that church. And it took everything in me to not go. And it was just one of those things I say all that says, I'm sorry. I think this first I'm talking less about, but like, this is the. I guess on two sides. On one side, for me, this is like the first time talking a lot of this stuff out, right? And I'm putting things out because it's just. It's amazing the weight that sits on top of people, right? And I'm trying to lead others and I'm hearing of other people in our church. I'm watching men. God has called me to minister to men in the season of my life. And as I'm ministering to men, talking to men, it's just like, please be honest about who you are. Be honest about where you are. Hold yourself accountable, because you're only as successful as your biggest secret.

Yeah.

And it's like, hold yourself accountable to it in your close circles. And so that this is the effect of what it happens. I never want my son to talk about me or think about me the way that I think about my own. And the thing about it is, if he simply would have said, hey, let's do therapy, you'd probably be on a podcast with us. I would invite him in when I got installed, literally, because, like, I'm craving what that relationship. And I'm sure as you talk about yours as well, I bet if he were to be like, hey, listen, this, like your mom and you have a conversation. He reach out and like, you guys do work together. And it's like, cool, here's a picture. Like, there's, there's. We crave it because it's half of.

Yourself, half of yourself. I have your identity. And I think too, it's sitting down as, as adults now and looking back, right? And saying to yourself and having the realization that it's hard to come to grips with. But there's a powerful quote that I heard, is that like some people, especially people that are supposed to be sacrificial in their love, they love themselves more.

God.

And having that understanding that you no longer, you don't. Not no longer, you never had the capacity to love me in the way that I needed to be loved. And so freeing yourself for that, where it's like, even now, you don't have the capacity to understand or have the accountability. You don't have the capacity of who I am right now to father and to do that. And you know, sometimes I have to. When I've been looking through my life and I'm like, God, this season in our lives too has been like, laden with a lot of, like, rejection. Like, a lot of just like, rejection. No, no to opportunities, no things, no to that. And it's hard, like, not to get down, right? And not to like, even have the root. Because it's like, well, I've been rejected as a child. I've been rejected from this, I've been rejected from that, right? And it's this powerful notion that I, like, I just heard the spirit say so sweetly, like, I love you too much to let you go through that. And that was a thing where I had to even sit down with myself and like, you know, God, why, why, why wasn't I able to do the father daughter dances and the father daughter breakfasts and the father daughter things? And I never had anybody to do that. And I'm so grateful for like, great uncles that have been there and just have been like, father, like, to me, people in my church like, sorry about Auburn. Did Auburn win?

No, Auburn just pushed him to the limit. So I'm just saying, sorry about Auburn.

Okay. I've had so many great uncles, but realizing and for myself, and I just heard the Spirit say so sweetly, I love you too much to allow someone to be a part of your life that just did not have the qualifications to be a part of your life. And in the same, right in the. It doesn't make sense in the world because it's just like, everybody else has great fathers. Everybody else has this. Everybody else has like a normal family. Everybody else has this. Everybody else is that. And God is saying to us, like, oh, I know where I'm taking you. I know where you have. And I know, it's pretty bad for you in your childhood, but he had to be gone in those formative years, you. Because, like, I love you too much to have him around in those years that I was shaping you to the man that you are today. Right.

It's that I said this a while ago to our church. We sang the song, Hallelujah, Salvation, glory, honor, power to the Lord. And when you continue reading that text, in Revelation 19, he talks about them getting a glimpse of. Of the rapture that they avoided. And sometimes my praise, my gratitude is not what I went through. Yeah, it's what you avoided. No. Oh, my God. Four years of college in that. And I was getting it back into sports, and he didn't have it. And the church was six blocks away from school. Right. I can only imagine being in church, faking it while I'm in college.

Yeah.

Formative years, dating.

Yeah.

What? Purchasing things. And I haven't even gotten to all of it, but, like, money issues and drug issues and.

Right.

Connections.

We're being like a present father in today. Like, as you are a relevant pastor in the city. And putting those whole notions, like you said in our last episode of, like, the last episode of, like Our People Pleasing Ones, where, like, you know, that mindset of, oh, so you're going to San Francisco every week to get hats and stuff. Oh, oh, son, you need to. You need to be wearing robes. Oh, son, you know, his own notion and work that he has to do himself. Right. Realizing that, like, parents are human. Right. And it's a good parent is the parent that's already done the work.

I remember something my mom said to me. I don't know why. I just remember this. When she first got sick, I went home to Milwaukee. We were in the hospital, and I was working aggressively to get her out, to get her home, to get the home set up for her. And we were sitting in the hospital, and she had this moment because she couldn't. She could text, but she didn't really ever want to text because the only people she texted was me, Camille and one of her friends and her sister. She looked at me and she said, you know, she couldn't talk much as she was working. I wasn't a perfect parent. I was like, mom, stop. Like, mom, stop. And I'm like, stop talking about death. But talking about death. We're talking about this. And it's under masterclass, too. We have a lost moment. I went past masterclass, but Shameless plug. And I'll talk about that in a second. But, like, I Remember, she looked at me and she was like, I wasn't a perfect. I wasn't a perfect parent, but I tried. And I remember looking at her, and I remember walking outside and the nurses saw me, and I just started weeping. Like, I just started crying. And they came up and gave me tissue. They're like, what's wrong? I said, that's not my mom. My mom was always, like, part of presence, about perfection. You know, she's gonna wear the power suits. She had the colors, the power suits. She studied that stuff. She knew ever since my dad, like, left, she had. She had. She studied, like, power, presence, power suits. All of this Stan, like, the book I got Stan like. Stan, like Lincoln, speak up, Churchill. My mom had it first. How do you perfect your communication style? You show up in the room, you take over the room. You have presence. People remember you're there, even if, like, it's sometimes out of character. And I tried joke when I went back home to preach, and it was just like, my mom would have been cracking jokes about this, and they were like, you're my bad jokes. Because, like, the way she showed up in a room, she's gonna stand like Lincoln and speak like Churchill, right? And she said, I'm not. I was never the perfect parent. But I tried, and it broke me, man, because it was like, you really did.

It's the try that made all the difference.

And I think that's the thing I even honor for. For your mom, too.

Yeah.

See her. And just, like, the things that she does with you and the relationship y' all have, it's just wonderful. Because it's like, no, there's. We're never gonna be perfect parents either.

There. No perfect parent exists. But a trying. A trying parent is the parent that endures, right? Nobody knows. Like, we're all just people who come along and has their own individual lives that have become parents, right? And there is. Because there's no book, there's no pamphlet. There's no degree in parenthood. There is nothing. They give you this child in the hospital and say, like, good luck. Don't kill them. Get out and hear some milk. But.

And steal the rest.

And. And that's it. But that's it. That's what kids remember the most, right? They don't remember, like, when Cam grows up, like, I'm like, kim, stop. Stop jumping on my couch. This is my showroom. I call it my showroom back here all the time. And. But then sometimes I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna let him jump Because, I mean, it's a very. Yeah, Justin does like it, but I'm like, you're right. This is a very jumpable couch. And I get it. And it's the try. They're not going to remember the perfection. Right. They're not going to remember the times, but it's remembering the times. Like you're saying when your mom was, you know, getting messy in the kitchen. I remember she's making a cake with Cam. And I remember those times, and I remember, like, the times where she said something that was so funny and totally out of character for herself, and it was so, like, crazy and out of pocket that we just started all just like. Like, cracking up. Like, what? And those are the times you remember because it was the try. Right. And it's never the perfection. Right. It's like, what did you want? I'm not a perfect person. Kids, Kids. It's actually being perfect is the least of what a parent is. It's unattainable.

So we just really want our parents and loved ones to be human. Right? Right. And, yeah. You know, so if you're gonna navigate through this, I think you take a look at your own lives, hold yourself accountable, Realize it may explain, but doesn't excuse. Be honest, free with your children. Be vulnerable. And what was it? I forgot the other thing. Oh. Like your. Your. Your child doesn't need what your parents weren't. Your child needs who God created you to be, and who you are is enough. Yeah. And. And be honest about your own stories. If one thing you guys noticed today is that, you know, for me, this is some of the stuff I'm talking out for, like, the first time. And Court's sharing her story as well, that all of us have stories, and sometimes we grow the most in the ugly stories. Right. And it's the ugliness of our stories where we really can begin to see the handprint of God. I had this struggle last week where I was struggling with God about the things that we've dealt with, the things that we've gone through the course of the last year. And I was thinking about my mother. I was thinking about church stuff. I was thinking about transitions. I was thinking about summer. And I'm sitting here just like, God, like, what in the world? And he began to reveal to me the good things out of it, all right? The things have been created, the things that he was cultivating. And I hated it in the moment. Even, like, we're on the tail end of some stuff right now. I hated it in the moment. It Sucked, man, it was just long and drawn out. But the stuff that God created, the things that he revealed, the character that he built, the honesty that he called out, the accountability that he named, the vulnerability that he gave, even the series of revelation. Man, I was hard as I'll get out. I was hard to show up the pulpit. I would literally be up till 4 or 5 o' clock in the morning and then sleep for 30 minutes and go to church when you get into bed. And I'd literally be up, just can't sleep, anxious. And to be in a position now where it's like on the other side of it. And this is what God did because you grow the most in your ugly stories, long journeys. And I don't wish those in anyone. I don't desire those. I don't wish to give it. I hope my son's therapy sessions and ears, if he ever has to go, is about something that is not daddy or mommy related. I pray our best that it is. That it's nothing to do with us or what we've said or done to him, but like a bad football coach, like, not gonna worry about if I miss football coach. And hopefully not. But you know, but it's just one of those things. I. I pray that we aren't the source of trauma.

Yeah. And I think my last, like little takeaway with what you're saying in something, what we just talked about is that if you're a parent out there, whether you're a father or a mother or you're co parenting together with someone, is just to just try. Right. Like, I know it might be difficult to communicate with a co parent, but try it again.

That's it.

Try coming to the games. Try seeing. Try thinking ahead to what your child might need.

Try.

Try being there. Because one thing a child always remembers is that, wow, you try.

I remember you were. I think he went to get your nails done or something. And he was upstairs and I was exhausted. I was exhausted. And this little kid just has little Hot Wheels on the floor. And I'm sitting here like I am tired. But he didn't even ask for it. I just sat down on the floor, played Hot Wheels was good. It was the best 10 minutes of my day because I. He just wanted to play Hot Wheels. Yeah. And so what to what Courtney said, it's. It's the games. It's also just like, hey, you want to help me put the food in the oven? Hey, do you want to. I'm running to the store. Do you want to come with? Hey, I'm watching the show. Do you want to join in? What shows do you like? And even like, I sat there, I love Cam to life, but his taste in YouTube shows is just weird. And so we sat there and watched these kids play racing for 10 minutes, man. And I'm like, he's just so into it. And I'm like, but he's doing the same thing when I'm watching football for eight hours straight, right?

Yeah.

And. And I'm sitting down here literally in the showroom couch because it's the most comfortable couch in our house. I'm sitting down here watching football Saturdays.

From 9am yeah, I'm gonna laugh my.

To 11pm and I will seriously sit. I've made an indent. I found all the places where plugs are to eat and everything in this room because I'm watching football and my son will just come down and enjoy and make fun of me because I fall asleep and all that. And it's just. You're right. Remember the tribe. Let me speak to this. So as you guys heard in the last episode, we are starting an or. We have an LLC called the Luster Group and part of the LLCs you heard last week about capacity. And so this week I want to share with you guys a bit little bit about our master classes. So we have master classes that we offer in areas that we feel that God has called us to master. Right. And so three of the ones that I'm offering are breaking 200. So if you're a pastor or church leader. I have been in three different contexts. I was in Tennessee, which is. Which is the like some of the most church cities in the country. Nashville, Murfreesboro are some of the most churched and biblically literate cities in the country. Moved to Rhode island, which was number five and number seven, I believe on the most unchurched and biblically literate cities in the country. And then moved to Vallejo, California, which the Bay Area, Sacramento, San Francisco, places like that are numbers two and four, I believe Seattle is number one. And like Oregon and places like that, number two, number two. And so we have been in some of the most unchurched and publicly littered areas. And in the Mitchless places we have seen attendance grow drastically. God has trusted our leadership to grow intergenerational churches large and to break 200. And I've done that in Nashville, Rhode island and California. And I put together a masterclass to help pastors to break 200 as inexpensively.

As possible as a thousand member pastor.

Today, as a thousand Member PASTOR now we have broken 200. Our goal now is in one of our services. And as we plant, our next service is to break the. Yes, thank you for that. So the stalling point for most churches is breaking 50 is easy because you can do that. Family and friends. Breaking 100 with their family and friends is easy. Breaking 200 is the hardest barrier because once you break 200, you finally, you put the systems in place to break five. Once you break five, you're going to break a thousand. And once you break a thousand, you're going to hit three. Unless something unethical, ridiculous, catastrophic, financial, you know, so you lose a building or whatever, you're gonna break mega once you break a thousand. So right now we're preparing for three to five thousand people, even though we just broke a thousand. Right. So there's that. Right. So we're doing that another one as well. You get somebody talk about parents today. I lost my mom last year. And navigating through grief. As a pastor, I've been doing funerals for years. Years. I haven't had a preacher eulogy until hers. And there's a difference. And recognize grief in its. All its facets. And I couldn't find a resource while I was dealing with the loss of.

The parents that actually helps you deal.

With it, whether that's the estate, the wills and everything. So I have a master class preparing.

Now if you have Asian parents or sickly parents or you just want to have healthy legacy, which begins now of navigating through losing a loved one or a close loved one and how to process that through. And I wish we had a guide or book because it was. It was hard to navigate through. And so I think this masterclass would be for any of those that have Asian parents or those that are head of estates in your family or whatever that looks like for you right now, starting what do we need to plan as we go on for the future.

And so this master class talks about how you can recognize the signs of death and the language they're saying because most people who are going to pass know about two months in advance. And some of the language they begin to use for me allude to one of the stories my mom, when I started saying something is different and things like that. So I go through the master class and the last one is dealing with you guys from my book Necessary Endings. Talk about it all the time, but it's that one. The four mindsets to enrich your life to go forward. And so Courtney has a couple as well. And for master Classes. What master classes you have?

Yeah, so I'm doing a master class on if you are interested in becoming a coach, how to start into the coaching world. What exactly is coaching, how to navigate through that. And so if you're interested in establishing yourself and becoming a coach, I have coached coaches with for many years giving you the difference and how to start that up. I will be doing a master class on that. And then also just on transitions in life, whether that is from pregnancy to you trying to navigate this new life of parenthood or you're just trying to advance your career or whatever that looks like just general coaching and helping you reach to that. I also offer individual coaching. I have a free 15, 15 minute consultation that, that you can use and going through their coaching, you get a great guide that helps you to stay on track, helps you to be accountable. It helps you get to the goals that are just so hard to get to. So I would love to talk to you, I would love to meet you. More information is going to come up in, in our little description. You can sign up for that. So we are so excited.

Everything's in the show notes and it's on our Facebook pages and things like that. And we're, we're doing this in a way that I think would be conducive for us, but I think really we want to help people. Our whole goal has always been to help people. And you say this all the time. Like you say you call people magic, you say you're magical.

Absolutely, we are magical. And I don't think we realize how, how much energy that we produce like as people people and that there is no one in the world that is quite like you. And so we could either dim it or shine like the magic that we are. So we. You are magical. We are magical and super excited that you are in on the journey for your life.

That's it. So all the links and stuff are in the show notes. Please connect, reach out to us and look forward to seeing you guys next Monday. Before we go court, what's your unpaid advertising advertisement?

My unpaid advertisement is for uno. Now this new one that's like, what is it called? Show them no Mercy. That's the number. Yeah, that's my number. One Christmas on my Christmas list is called show them no mercy uno. Our son has gotten very good at uno. Like he beat me like five times in a row and I'm like going hard on him. I'm like, I'm not holding or withholding cards. He is just like winning and I'm like, oh, I got something for you. So today's. Today's unpaid advertisement is for. Show them no mercy. Uno.

My unpaid advertisement is Wisconsin sports. The Green Bay packers beat the Detroit Lions. They gave the Kansas City Chiefs a fight.

That's true. I'm so happy that Gay was on tv because you were like about to cry because you can't see Packers.

The Milwaukee Bucks have Dame Lillard.

Yeah.

Chris Middleton doesn't have knees. But. But. Okay, Andrewski, but it's over with because he's on the enemy's team now. He went to Satan's team. Satan's teams are Notre Dame, Boston Celtics and Chicago Bears. So he went to Satan's team.

So not by choice.

He went to Satan's team.

He's always.

He went to Satan's team. Stop. He went to Satan's team. So shout out the Wisconsin sports. And then also, let's see, what's the other team? Oh, the best team. College basketball. Right now. The Marquette Golden Eagles.

That's the question.

It'll be in my bracket. Yes, it'll be my bracket this year. Last year?

Yeah, last year you talked about.

The Eagles are soon to be number one in the country. Marquette Golden Eagles are final four bound. Championship game bound. Gonna put up another banner. Marquette Golden Eagles 77, 2023, 2024. By the time we get it, it'll be great. Marquette Golden Eagles. Dwyane Wade's home.

Okay, well, thank you.

My unpaid ad. Wisconsin sports.

As you can see, we have live. So see you guys.