Bring It On! Hollis Citron ES66

Hello and welcome to Every Sing! I'm Nancy Bos. The focus of this season of Every Sing! is personal narrative or personal stories. Personal narrative is a big topic and we'll try to cover it from lots of different angles here in Every Sing! You can also learn more about it by reading my articles on my blog. I also publish the articles almost daily on LinkedIn. So you can follow me on LinkedIn for updates as well. Everything is made possible through the support you give my publishing work at Studio Boss Media and my events company, Celebrate Singing. You can, if possible, attend one of our regular Celebrate Singing online education and community events, and you can purchase recordings of past sessions. The website is celebratesinging.live. Celebratesinging.live. As for my books, just go to Amazon and type in my name, Nancy Bos, B-O-S, and they should all pop up. I really appreciate your support. Today's guest is the one and only Hollis Citron. Hollis is on a mission to make creativity accessible to everyone by exposing them to new possibilities. She is passionate about helping people build the confidence to recognize, encourage, and express the innate creativity that they are born with. But it's not what you think for creativity. Creativity goes beyond the pencil and the brush, she says. Creativity is your unique and original exploration, expansion, and expression of your imagination. Even if you are not an artist, yes, you are a creative being, and you are creative because you are the only person that can add your gifts to the things that you create. You are creative because only you can express your ideas and greatness with the world. Hollis Citron is the founder and CEO of I Am Creative and Express Yourself Publishing. She and I are like-minded sisters in so many different ways, and I think you are going to love this Here is Hollis Citron. Hollis, welcome to EverySing. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thank you, Nancy. I'm so excited to be here. Can't wait to dive into this conversation.

I can't either. We were, we were introduced to each other by Jacqueline Chalice, who was on a previous episode, and she is so right that you and I needed to talk because we are working on the same concept from different angles, and I really want my audience to hear about your angle, especially regarding creativity. So let's jump in with Hollis Citron. How do you define creativity?

Thank you for that. Thank you for putting my own question back on me. Yes, I appreciate it. So I define creativity as expression, and expression meaning in every way. It's basically how you show up. So it's how you use your voice. It's the words that you choose. It's how you— the clothes that you put on your body. It is the hairstyle that you choose to wear. It is how you express yourself, how you show up in life.

Perfect. And, and you have interviewed so many people and asked them how they define creativity. I'm sure that's had a big impact on you and how you define creativity. You've learned so much, I'm sure. So how does creativity show up in your life? Again, spinning one of your questions right back at you.

Again, it's really this understanding. And like you said, thank you. Like, I have— I've spoken to so many people, and what I've just learned through the whole process is just reiterating and reinforcing that creativity is life. It's life. It's every component. So how do I incorporate into my life? I incorporate it into how I wake up in the morning. What is my morning routine? Um, a morning routine doesn't have to be I'm doing ABC every day. What it can be is just like, okay, what are these things that I am going to implement and stick to because it does make me feel good? In the sense of, okay, Hollis, take a breath. Don't look at your phone. Look at like put on Abraham Hicks and listen to something, get it in, get something in there right away that is like an affirmation, something that feels good for a mindset. It's when I brush my teeth, do I dance a little bit while I'm doing it? Yeah, I like kind of like sit there and brush my teeth and just kind of like dance and move along. What's my drink in the morning? I make sure to have my water. And then I make my chai tea. I have my, you know, I steam my oat milk. I, you know, I could go on and on. What clothes am I putting on my body? Like, what feels good to be wearing today? Always wearing earrings. So my earrings, if I'm not wearing earrings, I'm naked. So I'm like, what do I feel like wearing today? I just kind of like scan over my earrings and then what am I wearing today? So that's kind of a hint, if I'm answering, is that it's just all of these moments. That are about expression and about me and what honestly I'm in the process of learning and becoming more aware because I'm very good at doing this for other people. And of course, as, as we know, it can be harder to do it for ourselves. So I'm the first one to be a bat for anybody with a client, a person that I care about, my children, my, my husband. But then when it comes to me, I'm like, oh, what's the big deal? I, I just do it. It's not a big deal. I mean, do I need that anyway? So it gets draining.

So I, I think you're, you're starting to head a direction that my mind was always going. If every little thing that you mentioned is creative, what's not creative? What, what is it that, that saps our creativity or doesn't feed us into a creative place?

I personally think it's that mindset that We have so many boxes and we have so many labels. There's this societal concept that, which is what I'm on a mission to change and have an impact on, is that creativity goes beyond a pencil and a paintbrush. So we get into this idea that in order to be a quote-unquote creative person, then you need to know how to draw, you need to know how to paint, you need to know how to speak on stage, you know how to need to, you know, act, to sing, to play an instrument. Like these things. And yes, it's all well and good, and it's not taking away from people. I went to art school, like you have, you sing, you do like all these amazing things, and people deserve credit where they deserve credit. But I think it's very important for people to recognize that in showing up every day in your authenticity and the talents that you have empowers someone to change their perspective on who they are and see themselves as a worthy they have something to contribute. And in, in that mindset, I have seen it, it changes how a person shows up in the world.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, mindset. And that's something that you've become quite the expert on. And fortunately, you've just— you're in the middle of publishing a book, partially published. I'd love to have you tell us about that book. What's in the book and what your mission is with that book.

Thank you. So Invisible No More: Stepping into the Spotlight, 17 incredible contributors. And the mission is, is just to bring this whole idea of— and the prompt is, so each chapter, people name their own chapter based off of what does invisibility mean to you? What does Invisible No More mean to you?

Okay, invisible. What is invisibility? What is invisible no more? Can you define those a little bit? Can you tell us what you got from your, your 17 contributors?

So much. So there are stories of trauma, there's stories of being shut down for so long. Trauma in the sense of didn't have to be physical abuse, but of being told children are seen, not heard. Getting support from parents, but at the same time, this is how you should— this is what the expectation is for you, not what you want. This is the expectation for you. And then when this one person was 13 years old, she realized that there was a disconnect. She realized it, and she wrote a letter to her father trying to fix it, and he never opened the letter. Never opened the letter.

Ah, that hurts.

So it's these journeys that we take. So then learning about— with Jacqueline, learning the difference between shyness and introversion, that was a whole new light for me. This whole idea of invisibility, of what does shy mean and what is an— what's an introvert? An introvert doesn't mean that introverts need more processing time. It's, it's about where an extrovert is more about putting it out there more quickly, but an introvert needs to, to take it in more. So often an introvert can be seen as shy. Um, so it's, it's redefining these definitions. It's another person in, um, it's assuming the roles. He was childhood friends, he from childhood to 30 years old childhood friend. They were in— they always had some kind of dynamic where they were leading something and he was always second fiddle.

That's where he—

yep, he was the sidekick. He was the good sidekick up until— literally, that was from like 9 years old up until they were in their 20s when they were working in the same company. And then still a sidekick, but then he was let go from a position which all of a sudden left him and the other person wasn't. So he all of a sudden was left to kind of stand on his own. And then all the thoughts of, can I do this on my own? That wasn't my job. I, I'm not good at that. All these things. But then how it gets to a point where a person steps into that spotlight, into that worthiness, into that, it scares the hell outta me, but I don't care anymore. Or I will learn how to do that better. Or, oh, you know what? I actually could do that all along. And I didn't know that I had the skill because I allowed myself, I gave myself the permission.

That's what, that's what I'm hearing is that, is that it sounds like Invisible No More is a conscious decision on most people's parts to change the way the world perceives them and to be seen. Does that sound right?

Yeah, yeah. How the world sees them and how they see themselves. Oh yes, I think that's really the most because how we see ourselves is everything, right?

It is, it is everything. It makes all the difference in the world. Yep, yep, absolutely. Um, just like an extreme example of that is if you go to a, an entertainment hypnotist, okay? So I don't know if you've ever done that, but the hypnotist, that they will pull up 10 people from the crowd and say, you know, you're hypnotized, and they're all hypnotized, and you're Elvis all of a sudden, and this person will show up to the world completely different, and the audience is going to react with enthusiasm and excitement. And then the minute that they're no longer hypnotized, they go back to being themselves, or what they perceive of themselves. You see limiting beliefs when they clearly— they were capable of being entertaining and outrageous, and then you see them pull back in.

Mm, I love that example.

I think it was in 1993 in college when a hypnotist came and did that. Now it just popped back in my head. So that's just an extreme example of how these limiting beliefs, how we have to accept our own change. It's not about he thinks I'm wrong or she thinks I'm not worthy. It's like, how do you feel yourself?

Yes, yes. Because if you're not Lately I've been saying, if you're not expressing, you're repressing.

If you're not expressing, you're repressing.

Wow.

And expressing is creative.

It's using your voice. It's showing up. It's not being kind of mamby-pamby about things and just being like, yeah, person says, oh, well, Nancy, I think that you would be good at this. And in your head you're like, no, I wouldn't be good at this. But you're like, well, maybe you're right. Maybe I would be. And but maybe every part of you is kind of like every synapse is shooting off saying, no, that isn't the right thing for you. But you're not using your voice to stand up for how you feel. And not everything has to be— it doesn't have to be rude. It doesn't have— but it can be like, you know what, I don't think that's the right fit for me. I appreciate you seeing that in me, but no, I don't think that's the right fit. There's a strength, there's a power in, in just empowering and speaking, in speaking our thoughts and not just taking a back seat and, and, um, not saying what we feel.

Hollis, can you go personal with us? Can you tell us how this transformation has clearly happened at some point in your life? You've been on both sides of this.

Yes.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, sure. I was incredibly shy as a kid. So shy. Like, I would turn purple. I say purple, even though it wasn't purple. It was pink and high V and blotchy, and it was not attractive, and it would just be everywhere. It'd be on my face, my chest, and it kept me really small for a really long time because it was my barometer of, oh, she's embarrassed. Oh, and then people say these really intelligent things like, do you know that you're like all red? I'm like, seriously? Like, I'm on fire.

Knowledge does not help.

Yeah, just like, so, um, you know, oh, I like this person. Oh, maybe I don't feel worthy enough. I'm nervous. Like, that was just a barometer for everything. So I kept myself small for a really long time because I just didn't want to show up in that way. Public speaking? What? Are you serious? Like, no way.

Um, so you're not just talking as a kid, you're talking in your adult life. You were not interested even up until—

so things started to change when I went to art school and I got a degree in ceramics. Love what I did, but okay, Alice, what the hell you can do with that? So, um, so did that, and all of a sudden these like teaching opportunities were being given to me. And I'm like, are you serious? Like, me? I'm gonna teach?

Like, in front of a room?

Yeah, I can't get up in front of people. My mom is a teacher for 33 years, so I grew up kind of around that. Um, so anyway, I started to be like, okay, I'll do it. And I worked through it. I started with kids, and that felt more doable. And And I started to get into that and felt good. And then all of a sudden it was like I got a residency at a local clay studio and they're like, well, you need to teach adults with this. I'm like, seriously, I'm 21 years old. What do I have? Why would they listen to me? And then I had this lightbulb moment and I could go on and on, but I'll just stop.

Please do. No, please go on and on.

They It— the light bulb moment was I saw two adults standing. So it was a beginning, um, potter's wheel class that I was teaching, and they're standing across from each other, and one said to the other, can I borrow a paintbrush? And the other said, sure, as long as you give it back. And I was like, oh my God, they're kids! Because whenever you're starting something new, you're coming in with that beginner mindset mentality. So yes, it doesn't matter my age. I'm ageless in the sense that they're looking at me as I went to school for this. Mm-hmm. And they can learn from me. So I was like, oh, that's an interesting moment. And then there was like things that happened in there that, you know, one of the guys, like he actually ended up going back to school. He didn't like his job. And I wrote him a, like a letter for him to actually go back to school to take ceramic classes. Like it was powerful.

Wow. You changed a life there. Wow. Yeah.

So, so much transformation. So, but of course these little things happen, but then, you know, me, I question myself and I'm like, huh, well, am I really that effective enough? And da da da. I got my master's in art education. I have taught for 30 years in lots of different spaces and settings and doing professional developments. And then for up to 30 to 50 teachers in a room of how to incorporate more art. How to— for general classroom teachers incorporating art into the classroom, and then art teachers and brainstorming how to, um, different ways to expand, um, bringing art into the room that we already do. So again, there was tons of questioning on my end of like, am I worthy enough? Am I— why would they listen to me? Why would they— just so much of that. But then when it all becomes about the mission is bigger than me, Hollis. So when I left teaching at 51 from the official formal classroom—

30 years of doing that.

30 years, yeah. Well, so when I started I Am Creative and Express Yourself Publishing, I became so much more passionate and confident along the way because it's not about me. It's never been about me, even though it feels like it's been about me. It's my growth and understanding that I'm so passionate about reaching people to share this mission because it will empower and change their lives.

So it was never about you, it was never about art, or even specifically ceramics. No, it was always about empowerment.

Yes.

What did you see that, that people needed to change? Like, in general, what was it that you, you were sad about that you wanted to help people change?

Again, like those boxes that people see themselves in these spaces of like, let me go to just business in general. Well, I'm a salesperson. I'm not a creative person. Well, oh my God, do you realize that you use your voice every day? Let's just look at it from that perspective to sculpt conversations. You are communicating with people. You have interpersonal skills where you need to read body language. You need to understand and listen to people to understand what they need, to see when is a good time to bring something up, understand, like, when you're warming into— don't just, like, jump into something where people are going to be like, ah, no. There is a whole dynamic and understanding and creative process in that. And it's just even that little bit of that is a creativity. And when people hear that, they're like, oh, I never thought of it that way.

Yeah, and your Creative Conversations podcast, you have talked with people that don't think of themselves as creative.

Yeah, those are the people I want to talk to.

Yeah, can you give me an example of one that really surprised maybe the interviewee, like, oh, I am?

Yeah, somebody I went to high school with, he's a biologist and teacher.

Okay.

And yeah, and he lives in the world of science and facts and Training. Yeah, exactly. So at one point he's like, Hollis, I have no idea why the hell you asked me to be here. And I'm like, you, Barry, are the one I want to be talking to. Like, give me that person who doesn't think and give me that challenge and give me that. And you're the person I want to talk to. I'm like, why do you even— why do you want to— why are you a biologist? Okay. And he said, I think it's kind of sexy when you look through the microscope and you see the way the colors come together and the shapes and I was like, that is why we're having this conversation. And by the end of the conversation, he was like, wow, can we do this again? This was really fun. Like, I didn't even realize— I didn't realize those aspects of myself and that I do have this in me. And his whole voice changed. It really did.

Oh, that's so cool. So inspiring that way. I love it. Yeah. Well, what do you think, um, Hollis, as far as, um, creativity in your own life, how you use your voice? I know you've got your podcast and you've been publishing these books for people. How else does creativity show up that, that empowers you, right? You talked in the beginning about how everything's creative, but nonetheless, there is something that you're doing that gives you much satisfaction and joy because you're being really creative doing that. Are you able to name what that one or two things are? Or is it just— you're such— maybe you just live in creativity all the time. Well, you mentioned your earrings too, which are fabulous.

Thank you, thank you. I'm thinking like, I think what I'm learning about myself and understanding is really stepping up to what scares the hell out of me.

Yes, yes, yes. What scares the hell out of us is probably where we're supposed to go.

It's like I have a TV show now, so on a local network that's called I Am Creative with Hollis Citron. And when someone asked me if I was interested, I'm like, scares the hell, hell out of me. Okay, I'll do it. Because I never like seeing myself on video. I don't like pictures taken. In the past, I haven't. That's been my paradigm. That's been my mindset of don't take a picture of me. Don't— oh, I just— again, the blushing. What if I blush?

But it's not about you, Hollis.

But it's not about me. And that's why— and I find myself— it's funny because on a recent— on the— so on the back end, before we go live on the show, I get— I'm nervous. So in my head I'm thinking, oh my God, you know, what if— like I say to my daughter, which she's going to Bali tomorrow for 5 weeks, and I'm like Oh my God, she's my makeup artist. Oh my God, she's been warning me for saying, Mom, I'm going to be leaving soon. So I bring this up because I'm like, I need to cover up if I'm getting flushed, if I'm like watching, if I'm like— so recently there was one interview and I found myself getting warm and I'm like, hmm, but you know what, screw it. I can also blame it on menopause. Like, it doesn't matter. I bet you can.

Hot flash!

Hot flash! Like, I truly am to a point where, yes, admittedly, the thought goes through my head, but then the newer Hollis version of thinking is just like, screw it. Like, who cares? Yeah. It doesn't matter, Hollis, because it's not about you. Yeah. Yeah.

That was actually a big realization for me. I had severe performance anxiety as a singer until I was 35, and that was Part of my cure for my performance anxiety was, it's not about you, Nancy. You are a vehicle for the message. You're a vehicle for the transformation that's going to happen. So get out of the way and just be that vehicle. And it's really worked for me.

But what's beautiful in what you just said is people would be like, what? You were scared? Like, you sing. You sing. So you have performance anxiety? Like, what are you talking about?

Yeah, yeah. And you have a podcast and a TV show and you have performance anxiety. What are you talking about? So I don't think of it as imposter syndrome. I don't feel like I'm unworthy. I don't think you do either. It's— I think it's more of an ego thing that I have to take that, that step to get my ego to back out of the room. Or you've mentioned a couple times these negative voices that try to talk you out of something. What— can you give me a little more on that? What's your interpretation? I'm sure you've heard a lot of people talk about those, so what's your takeaway? Is that spirit? Is that part of our right brain being— our left brain being logical with us? Or what do you think?

I think it's our stories. It's, it's like past experiences. It's like, well, that's how it's always been, or that's, that's how I've shown up in the past, or that happened before. So it's human. Of course our subconscious wants to protect us. So our subconscious steps in and it's just like, well, remember when that happened when you were 5? And yes, we want to protect you from that because we don't want you to go through that same thing again.

Wow.

And then it's like, well, you being an adult now and 30, 40 years later and saying, you know what, I really am. I'm okay and I'm safe.

Yeah, and you're taking it and spinning it now that if it freaks the crap out of you, here we go. So it's like if you hear that voice now, that's like an invitation to go beyond that.

Yes, it's like bring it on, baby. Bring it, bring it. I don't know about like the zip lining or anything like that, or if you put a snake in front of me, that's like a whole—

that's it, that's a whole—

yeah, that's, that's— yeah, but a lot of other things, bring it on.

Well, I know there's no chance that my audience is done listening to you because this is a short podcast and you are fascinating. You've got so much to share. So first off, I want you to tell us who can watch your TV show. Where do they have to be? How's the TV show part work?

Well, thank you. It's, um, uh, I'll share the link with you. It's, uh, a local station called RVN. Local to where? What? Um, in New Jersey.

New Jersey. Yep.

So yeah, in South Jersey. So it's called RVN Network. And so I'll share that where it streams, where people can go specifically into my library. But when you go to RVN Network, it also streams on Roku.

Awesome. I can watch it myself and that'll be in the show notes. Fabulous. And your podcast?

Creative Conversations with Hollis Citron. And yeah, everything is really on my website, which is iamcreativephilly.com. And everything about me is, is there. Yeah.

And on social medias, I know I've seen you a lot on LinkedIn. Are you on other social media as well?

I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, I am on— where else am I— Instagram. Not so active on Instagram, but yeah.

So those are good stuff there. And your books, give us a little bit about the books that you've published already and what what you've got coming down the pike.

Thank you. So, um, two multi-author books. Um, first one, Creativity Is Whatever You Want It to Be. Um, 20 amazing contributors sharing their take on what creativity means and their journey with it. Um, Invisible No More: Stepping into the Spotlight, and, uh, we talked about that. And another multi-author coming out this Friday, April 29th, called Struggling Well, Thanks for Asking. It is 19 stories, uh, from widows and real-life experiences that is not a depressing read of, oh, woe is me. It is a growth and expansion and realness, and these women are pretty amazing.

Awesome, awesome. Anything else we should know about, or is that pretty well cover it?

Um, some solo books that are going to be coming out this year, and I'm filling a new multi-author book called Being— um, Creativity Is Being You. Okay, so yeah, so there's more information. People can choose, uh, multi— many ways to come in, whether you want to write 500 words, 1,000 words, 3,000 words. And right there, just talking about— I have a creativity— the second book in the creativity series, and just again expanding on that idea that creativity is kind of defining what creativity means in just You being you.

Wow. I know you're touching thousands of people's lives, constantly putting out amazing work, changing how people perceive themselves. And I'm just really grateful to you for being here on Everything to help touch my audience so that they can learn more about this and empower themselves. Thank you so much, Hollis.

Thank you so much, Nancy. And thank you for everything that you do. You are rocking it and making— talk about we're doing this, we're in this together, you know. We are We are inspiring, and the goal is to inspire and impact and, yeah, change as many lives as we can for the better. So thank you.

You bet. I am so glad that I got to share Hollis with all of you. She is doing awesome work. I've included all of her links in the show notes. And as for this podcast, if you want to listen to this podcast. Again, you have a choice of the audio podcast or the YouTube recording on EverySing YouTube channel. EverySing is two words. So follow up with Hollis Citron by visiting her website, iamcreativephilly.com, and I think you're gonna love her podcast. Or you'll find her on social media where she uses her extended name of Hollis Gross Citron. That wraps it up for today. Thank you to Stephen and Shannon Aubent for the fun theme music. And let me leave you with this: May you find joy in singing. May you feel the blessings of singing in your body and your soul. May you share your voice without judgment. And may you sing with love. In your heart. I'm Nancy Bos. Thanks for joining me here on Every Sing.