Mindfulness for the Voice with Toni Crowder and Dr. Denise Bernardini EYV74

Hello and welcome to the Empower Your Voice podcast. My name is Nancy Bos and I am your host. In this podcast I have the delightful opportunity to help you learn more about how your voice works and what ways that we can unblock our voices or make them work better for us. Sometimes solo episodes where I give my personal advice from the things that I've read and the things that I'm learning and the research that I've done. Other episodes like this one, I get to have remarkable experts who are groundbreaking in the fields and can really help empower your voice right now, today, in the here and now. And that's what we've got today. Today's episode is with Dr. Denise Ritter Bernardini and Miss Toni Crowder. Toni and Denise have written a book that is cutting edge in the field of voice, specifically singing, but not necessarily singing. This could also apply to anyone who's a professional voice user in speaking. That's voiceover artists, actors, professional speakers from the stage. This is stuff you're going to want to know. So I'm glad you're here to tune in and learn more about the mindfulness that Tony and Denise know so much about. Now, full disclosure, I have a small publishing company focused around voice. Every book that I publish is about voice, and it is a public-facing book rather than academic. And this book that Tony and Denise have written is being published by Studio Boss. And in fact, February 1st is our big publication date, so you are among the first to get the opportunity to read the book. And the book is The Mindfulness of Singing. You can find it on Amazon. It's available in print, it's available in Kindle, and eventually they will get that audiobook out there. But for now, get the print version because you're going to want to write in this book. You're going to want to make notes and Retain this book. It's going to stay on your shelf. You're going to refer to it often. It's full of practical advice and also some great spiritual advice too. So I need to tell you a little bit about Dr. Bernardini Denise. She has taught voice and opera at the university level for over 20 years. She has an accomplished performance career. She's a sought-after clinician and teacher and presenter in the world of voice. And she's actually written a book called A Stylistic Guide of Classical Cabaret. That's pretty cool too. Denise has performed all around the world. Fabulous woman, fabulous teacher, and so excited to have her on this podcast. Toni, her co-author, is also her very good friend. Toni has a performance career to be envied. She has had some amazing, impressive performances. She enjoys singing in a variety of genres, and her first love is opera, but but she's also sung in many other styles. She has taught on the faculty of different colleges and independently, and she's also a yoga instructor, among other things. Denise and Tony have their own podcast called The Mindfulness of Singing, so please do look that up if this is your bag. You will get even more great information by listening to that podcast and the many guests that they've had on there. I was honored to be one of their first— I might have even been the first guest on The Mindfulness of Singing. Anyhow, here they are talking about this important information, cutting edge, and I'll stop talking so that we can get to Denise and Tony. Hello, Tony, and hello, Denise. It is so awesome to have you on the Empower Your Voice podcast. Thank you for being here.

Hey, Nancy, congratulations on the new name. Thank you.

It feels great.

Yeah, because this podcast reaches a lot more than singers and Speaking of that, using that as a fabulous transition, your book that has just come out is going to reach a lot more than just singers too. And as of today, the really cool news is that, uh, The Mindfulness of Singing is the number one new release in the voice category on Amazon. So way to go!

Woo!

Yay! What a great start. I love it. I love it. So Denise, could I start with you? And could you tell us a little bit about how you got into this mindfulness space?

Oh, you know, well, the thing is, is I tried meditation back when I was in, um, at TCU when Tony and I first met. And I won't say how many years ago, but how many years ago, and people can guess. But, um, and I, I just would fall asleep. Like, I just, I tried meditation and I'd just be out. And I figured that it was maybe not that I'm exhausted from graduate school, right, and all the jobs that I had at the time. But I just thought it was just my brain, like it just would not—

Something wrong with you.

Yeah. Yeah, something wrong with me. Like my brain just would not shut up and leave me alone for just 10 minutes. Like it just wanted to just, you know, constantly planning and whatever. So I gave up, you know, just was like, it's not for me. I just can't do it. It must be a special person person who can do that.

Yeah.

And then later, um, I started taking, uh, um, classes, um, in, um, mental health and in counseling, psychotherapy, and took a class in mindfulness and just loved the class and realized that I'm not different, that I'm like pretty much everybody else. You don't have to be special because it is what it is. We all have these brains that want to talk to us when we're still. And so by embracing the fact that that was just— that's just the way it is and being patient and taking time, I began to really have a mindfulness journey that I thought was so cool. But also that class, that class, I was like, wait a minute, singers do mindfulness all the time. Teachers especially, like, we, we say, what are you, what's your goal today? We, you know, and we're like, notice what that feels like in your body. Um, let's see, uh, don't judge yourself.

Yeah, we even tell— as your teacher, we even tell people to be in the moment. I can tell that your mind is straying. Will you just be present here?

Yeah, stop thinking about what you've screwed up a measure or two ago. In this moment and don't think about what you're so fearful of coming down the line. Like, be in this, you know, in this studio, in this moment. And I thought, oh my God, we totally do this to singers. So I, um, this is where Tony comes in because then I, I, I twisted her arm. Take it away, Tony.

Before we get into the arm twist, one of many arm twists— Denise is good at that, but I love her dearly, so she's able to I'll answer the question too about mindfulness and piggyback on what you just said. This morning I taught a 6:00 AM yoga class and I asked the class, what is the most important thing when you're on your mat? What is the most important thing you need to do when you're on your mat? And the answer, it's kind of a trick question, is stay on your mat. Be there, be there present on your mat. And for me, mindfulness has been a natural affiliation with all my interest in yoga and spirituality and all those kinds of things. But as that term has become used more and more in the vernacular, a common phrase, and our book says in 2019 it was one of the most popular Google searches. But I agree with Denise, we've all been practicing mindfulness. We just didn't name it that. We didn't label it. It's become more of a fad, but it's definitely been a part of everything that I do in the yoga world.

So, you know, just staying on that topic for just a minute, I just realized that, um, In my Business Energy Yoga Tai Chi Coaches group— I mean, that's one person, Business Energy Yoga Tai Chi, one person, Anna Choi is her name— and in her group, she encourages the business people in the group to learn how to be in their body, which I'm like, well, duh. But it's a singer thing. Again, I've, I've taught so many teenagers that I can ask them, you know, can— what's going on with your abs right now? Well, I don't know. It's like, oh no, go in your body. And, um, that's another mindfulness part, right? It's just to be aware of your body and not just in your frontal cortex all the time.

Yeah. And young singers really struggle with that anyway. Like, they, they— I mean, you think about what we were like when we were young. Like, I didn't really know my body when I was 17 or 18. I didn't really, you know, get all the sensations. Now I, I know my own body so well that I know when my blood sugar's up. I know when, you know, I, I, I know those sorts of things. And I think that comes with wisdom and age and living in your body. And so helping young people to figure out how to get in their body, but not having that be fear— a fearful experience for them or a triggering experience for them.

Wow.

Is where you have to sort of tread lightly. When you're teaching young singers.

Beautifully said. All right, Toni, back to you. How did you get into this mindfulness business?

Ha! Well, that would be the arm twist from Denise.

Yes.

Uh, so I apologize for any of you who've heard this story before. I feel like I've said it a lot, but it's worth telling again. So Denise and I had lived in different states ever since we graduated. She called me up one day so excited. Guess where I'm moving? At the time I was living in Virginia and I said, "Guess what I've just sold?" That would be my house in Virginia. I was off to live my wanderlust life, live the life of a nomad. I had an apartment a year for Italy and I came to see her in Virginia and I was waiting for the final process of my visa. It was a long process. And she said, "Hey, you know, while you're waiting, let's just knock out this little book. Let's let her write a book. It'll just take us, you know, a few weekends, no big deal." You'll be on your way. And I went to bed that night stirring it around because I tend to think about things. Denise tends to jump. And I wrote some things and I came downstairs the next morning and I read it to her and she said, you could write this book by yourself. Come on, let's do it. You know, so she got me on board. I didn't make it to Italy. Still hoping maybe by the end of next month. But it's been a— in all sincerity, I do joke about her twisting my arm, but it has been a gift because I also mentioned in the book that I thought I would be meeting people around the world, and we did meet people. It was just virtually. And it gave me something to focus on when my dreams were all shattered. And I've learned through this journey how to bloom where you're planted. And certainly Denise and the mindfulness of singing have been a big part of blooming where I'm planted. I was on my way to Italy and ended up in Arkansas. It sounds like a country song, doesn't it?

I was on my way to Italy and ended up in Arkansas.

Doesn't it? I mean, it really does sound like that. It's great.

I've been writing songs. Maybe that's coming down the pike. It was Denise's suggestion that got the roll.

Mindfulness is a lifestyle for both of you. And so I'd like to hear a little bit about that, not just writing the book, but how do you incorporate mindfulness in your whole life? And how did you learn this? How did you get here?

For me, you know, adversity, dealing with life situations, adversity, aspects of myself, you know, in all honesty, that I don't like sometimes, you know, my knee-jerk reaction, my first reaction is screw you. And so, you know, that's an aspect that's not very likable sometimes. And I needed to kind of really discover why that is my first reaction and why I am so sometimes defensive and why it has not served me well at times. And I— that mindfulness aspect of like living with noticing a thought or a feeling And not, not needing to react, but to rather go, okay, now where is this coming from? Why am I feeling this way? Why is this triggering some sort of like visceral, un— unhealthy or distasteful, unpleasant experience in my body, in my mind? What is it that is making this happen? And being able to just like sit back be disciplined mentally and emotionally, self-regulate, right? And you would think, you know, I should have started self-regulating at 30, but I didn't. So here we are. And to everybody that knew me when I was 30, I'm so sorry. And I, I, you know, just kind of learned to like filter things through that mindfulness lens, like, okay, this is about me. This is not about them. This is about me. And I don't need to react in this way every single time. I'm not saying I'm perfect, you know, that it hasn't brought me inner perfection. It's always a process, but it has certainly made— and things like, okay, you know, this would normally make me like want to go eat a whole gallon of ice cream, or this would make me like just go into a funk and not move my body for days. I'd become depressed or whatever, you know, and not a clinical depression. That's a different thing. But, you know, just sort of ambivalent about things because I wasn't dealing with the inner stuff. And mindfulness gives you a filter and a way to kind of discipline yourself in that way. So adversity, I think, is what really made me go, what can I do to be a better, nicer to myself and a better person?

It would be fair to say that you felt like you were a bit of a victim of your personality and your emotions, and you wanted to learn how to have some control and power over those?

No, I would say, I would say that I felt, I have felt that I was a victim of other people. Um, and dealing with that, like not pointing the finger that way.

Sure.

But pointing it here. And saying, you know, they, they are what they are. I have no control over that, but I can control my reaction to this. I can control the way that this makes me feel. And when you know why, when you've sat with some things like that and you know why, um, that can make a huge difference in, uh, your happiness and your peace in your life.

You bet, you bet it, Ken. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um, as much as I would love to go there, because that's all Empower Your Voice stuff, we got to keep moving on mindfulness of singing. So, Toni, can you share us how it is that you got to this mindfulness space in your holistic life?

Yes, and two things. First, I want to agree and disagree with my co-author here. And you know, I would just say that one thing I've learned, if you're going to write a book with somebody, it better be somebody that you have the ability to agree and disagree. And so I'm grateful for that. So I want to say I totally agree with Denise that, Denise, that, um, adversity tends to draw us to our knees and we look for answers. And whether that's a gigantic earth-shattering adversity, or I can give you an example that happened right before our call. I'm going on a trip tomorrow, found it that my friend who's traveling with me, that we somehow had 2 tickets in my name. Now that was a little bit of anxiety You know, and I realized I needed to do some breathwork and get centered before we started this call. And one of my favorite aspects in the book is about breathwork. We give some great tools and I went straight to that toolbox. I use the book. I still use the book.

I believe in the book.

In fact, side tangent, I was having sleep issues and I went, oh yeah, go to the book, get the sleepy time jello.

Oh yeah, go to the book.

Oh yeah, Tony, do you remember? So I'm trying to practice what we preach, not that we're preaching it to anybody, but sharing the things that we've learned. So I do agree wholeheartedly, but I do want to disagree with Denise. Yeah, she does not always come from a place of screw you. Maybe sometimes, but she's mindful and aware when she does, and I've seen that in her own journey.

So you mentioned yoga. What else do you do? How's mindfulness work for you?

Journaling, which is also in our book. Walking, sitting quietly, all these. I guess I'm saying everything that's in the book. I don't mean to spill the beans. But they are really, truly anchors in my life, not something, oh, let's research and see what might be good to throw in the book. No, we're living it, we're breathing it. And you are.

And did you come by this, uh, through, through a frustration like Denise did, or has this just been part of your life?

Oh wow, yes and no. Yeah, there's been plenty of frustrations that have caused me to seek answers But I also, I just am a person who, as a seeker, I would call myself a seeker anyway, regardless of trauma or, and someone who just thrives on learning and growing and trying to better myself. That's all throughout the book of how to make specific changes in your life to create a harmonious mind, body, and spirit. And I really do believe that those, that 4-step process can be used for anything. And that people will respond and say, hey, I've noticed not only a change in my voice, but an XYZ area of my life because I've been applying the Sing Method.

So yeah, right. Absolutely. It's not just going to help with singing. Well, it's going to help with singing because singing is holistic. And so absolutely fantastic. So don't expect this book to just impact your throat. This is a holistic experience. So I've got a copy of the book here in front of me. And you've divided up the book with setting the stage and planning for success, and then battle of the mind, and then spirit, and then let me guess, body. So you do— you divided it up between mind, spirit, and body. And so I'd like to take a little bit of time with each of those, just giving a little bit of a 5-minute preview of what each section has. So, Toni, could I start with you with what is the big message of the mind section and what can a person expect to cover in that area?

Well, I think the key word there is the very first word in that section is battle. It is a battle. We all have to— and so if you're in denial that this little thing up here isn't constantly saying negative things and chatting and causing problems, that's an issue that needs to be confronted. And hopefully, we believe that we give you strategies to address that battle, but it's an ongoing battle. And we speak specifically about trauma, self-judgment, and what else do we— on the spot here—

performance anxiety. Yeah.

And mental fatigue and resistance.

And when things don't go your way. All things we've lived and walked through, and these are tools that we think—

and not just that we think, but the professionals in that area also Yeah, and tricky, tricky business that we're in as singers where we are, um, vulnerable creatives who are being judged and earning our way by how others judge us. And so huge that self-judgment, judgment versus self-critique, is bam, right at the top of your book, because all of us, all of us can relate to that in this world.

Whether you're a professional singer who's going to be judged on the stage and critiqued and that kind of thing, or you're someone who likes to sing in the shower, there's still a lot of judgment. In fact, Nancy, you mentioned— I was on your wonderful podcast, not podcast but workshop the other day— and the statistics and the facts of how many people have a traumatic experience around their singing. You know, go to the back, you're too loud, or you can't match pitch or whatever, and it stifles them from singing just even around the house or for their own therapeutic benefits. And so self-judgment doesn't just have to— or not self-judgment, judgment in general doesn't have to be on a professional level. It can be about your own self-judgment. So hopefully we can provide tools to help you sing for just the sheer love of singing, whether there's ever a contract or a career, but just to enjoy your God-given voice, your own identity. And so yeah, a lot of times that negative judgment from someone else is—

it comes from that's someone else's problem. Um, I, I have been judged, um, uh, in my, uh, former— actually, I'm just going to say it— in my marriage, which is no longer a marriage, um, very early on, my former husband, um, said, uh, could you not sing? You sing too much. You're always singing. Just stop singing. And that just held true for the next 25 years. I wouldn't sing around him. Which is really hard when you live somebody and you're a professional musician. And a woman just told me yesterday that, you know, her grandma said, um, children should be seen and not heard. And at the tender toddler years when she heard that, it became part of her definition of herself, that now she— this woman is 64 and she's finally going, oh, that's not true, at least anymore. And so yeah, those, those messages, those that come from other people and come from within ourselves. And you handle those beautifully.

And I would say, you know, that we talk about performance anxiety, and I think a lot of people really suffer from performance anxiety, but they don't want to talk about it because we're— that's something you're really judged for when you go to school for singing is, what are you— why are you doing this if you're so afraid to do it? Like, change your major, do something different. Like, what's wrong with you? You should love to perform. And so, uh, it is something we talk about in the book too.

Fantastic. What about, um, spirits jumping from mind to spirit? What is the difference between those two for you, Denise, the mind and the spirit?

Um, to be simplistic here, I think mind is more about the ego, things that you learn, um, yeah, uh, skills that you know Knowing that, you know, knowing spiritual is other than something bigger, something different, something like in, in meditation, one of the questions that's asked is, who is doing the watching? When you're, when you're watching those thoughts go by, who is doing the watching?

Yeah.

If it's something other than your ego, than yourself, than your mind, then is it your spirit? Is it, is it a spiritual experience. I mean, we like to think that it's a spiritual experience. And I mean, in full disclosure, I'm a minister's daughter, um, and, uh, I've had a lot of religious trauma in my life, so it's super hard for me to go there. But as far as my own spiritual journey of meditation and things like that, that kind, that modality has been hugely healing for my own spiritual struggles.

Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because so many people need to know they're not alone. That, like, you even just started the whole podcast with, you know, that I thought there was something wrong with me. And so especially coming from the, the conservative Christian upbringing, um, which so many of us have, it's important to know we're not alone and thinking there's more, there's more than, than what I've been given here.

Right. And it's really hard to break free of judgment and being judged. And, and that can seep into your, your, your searching for your own spiritual identity, that, that can, that can really kind of keep that from helping you move forward.

So many times I think there's a big difference between religion and spirituality, dogma, um, and just seeing the divine in things. Um, and so I want to encourage people, whether you come from a religious right/wrong, good/bad, um, perspective, I think you can find lots of value in the book. And if you come from a place of that's not for me, I think you can find lots of value in the book because our perspective on spirit, we break it down that every emotion that we feel comes down to two things and only two things. You can subdivide it and break it down, but it's either you're coming from a place of fear or love. And so how does your singing— is your singing coming from a place of, gosh, I better sing or they're not going to love me because my parents expected me to do this, or whoever, or your own you know, monkey on your back? Or are you coming from, man, I love this and I've got something to share? You know, where are you coming from? So the spirit section in our book isn't about preaching to anyone about practicing a particular faith or even preaching to you about not having it. We want you to be you, but embrace— I'm going to get a little woo-woo in my words— but the divine in you. Because in my perspective, but I'm not preaching mine either, We all have that inside of us, and, uh, to unlock that.

But let me, let me point out that you give practical tools in that. Like you say, you're not preaching about any kind of religion or spirituality at all. You're giving practical tools about breathing, the breathwork toolbox that you already mentioned. Um, you're giving meditation, you know, introduction to meditation type of information, um, embracing the silence. What else you got in there? And then, um, Fear or Love Guide the Heart, like you mentioned.

So yeah, I'm busting there because you, you've, you've, as Denise said, you've hit my spot. This is my— I, we give 6 different types of meditation. So if you think, ah, you know, meditation, I mean, maybe you just haven't unlocked the one that's for you. We give tips, we give tools, we give ideas, we give encouragement. Don't give up. So yeah, it's, uh, just as you said, it's not about trying to— I hate to keep using this word— but preach at anyone about spirit, but telling giving you tools to go inside and look inside yourself and see what resonates with you. And I think the breathwork and meditation toolbox are some of my favorite things in the book, and I hope that they will feed people's soul.

I want to take a minute to get a little personal coaching from you because I— guided meditation, fantastic. I can be transported to the outer realms of the galaxy in a heartbeat. I mean, and what a difference that can make in my day. Silent meditation. I, um, yeah, I was actually really humbled. I have a friend who's even more ADHD than I am. He's a 73-year-old man, and he said that sometimes he'll go sit at the beach and just meditate for 3 hours. They're like, Michael, you, 3 hours? What? What? So every once in a while I try silent meditation. And then I'm like, yeah, maybe next week. Any advice for me with that? Is that something I should conquer? Is it—

I don't know. I— you first.

I mean, as a person who struggles with silent meditation, I'll just tell you, it's just— it's— if you have a busy brain, a brain that never shuts up, then I got you. I get it.

I—

and that's, that's, that's totally me. Like, I But figuring out some ways to maybe do some visualization, your own visualization without a guided tour for in your ears, you know, to do some sort of visualization of something you, you want to do. Like, for instance, there's a performance visualization that I do with students who are having, you know, really bad performance anxiety, and we just shut our eyes and speak spend time in some meditation space of going from them getting dressed, then putting on their makeup, like doing this very detailed visualization with moments of silence between. The creative mind, it's real. If you have a highly creative mind, it is very difficult to shut that up.

That is a very sweet way to put that.

It does not want to— it does not want to be quiet. So if you can give it, the creative mind, some things to do, like a visualization or a mantra or humming or chanting, then it's more apt to cooperate.

Okay.

I don't think medit— I don't think silent meditation is the end-all be-all. Like, it— you just— everybody's different. Cool.

Thank you.

I do. I would say don't sit down with the expectation It'd be kind of like coming into the studio and saying, "I want to sing this high cadenza, but I haven't warmed up, and I just want to go right in here to this high C." Well, maybe some prep work might be in order. So I think if you've never done anything and then to expect to go just sit at the beach and meditate for 3 hours, maybe that's too big of a jump. And in fact, I even talk about the Swamis who are seasoned meditators go through this ritual every morning of yoga first. Chanting, breathwork, meditation, and then it's dark and still and quiet and you're wrapped up in that cloak and you can just surrender into that space. Or in shavasana, think about if you're in a yoga class, I bet your meditation is much easier at the end of that 1 hour when you've stretched and had your yoga class than if you just got up. So I think it's with anything else, it's the steps, Nancy. So I'm quite sure even with the creative brilliant mind, you can still get there but do some breathwork. In fact, do the ego eradicater. Do 3 minutes and you're in such a state of bliss that you don't really care whether you're meditating or not. You're just kind of sitting there surrendered. And I found that most people feel that way about that exercise found in the Mindfulness of Singing book. And it's an excellent tool to get you still and ready to meditate.

Fantastic. I'm so glad I asked. I got my personal coaching in for the day. I appreciate it. So the last section of the book is Body as the Instrument, which, um, frankly kind of surprised me that that's in the book because I think of mind and spirit, but of course body. And so maybe we'll start with you, Toni. Could you go into that a little bit for the body part?

My shoulders, my hands, my chest, my feet, everything. Because our voice is not just our larynx, it's not just our voice box, it's everything. So what's going on in your body, in your brain, what you've eaten, what you drank, what, how slept, all has a significant impact on your voice. I don't care if you're a seasoned performer or you've sung in the shower, I bet there's no one who isn't listening to this that doesn't know the difference in their voice when they've had a terrible night's sleep versus a good night's sleep. We all know it. Our body is speaking to us 24/7. And as Denise said, you can tell me, 'I'm off my game, something is wrong.' I think, I think our body Talks to us very quietly.

Well, or loud, or loudly when it's almost too late.

No, when you've got something really terrible going on, it talks quietly first, and if it doesn't get our attention, then it begins to scream at us to get our attention. And so, um, yeah, I think the body is crucially and vitally important for vocal health.

Singers are fortunate in that we are so highly attuned to our bodies that we are more likely, especially in the act of singing, to feel these little things that the mindfulness, the, the body as an instrument brings up. But I really think this information is for everyone in this chapter, not just singers. It's just singers just happen to have a really easy way to measure the results.

Yeah, I, you know, um, This is probably the part of the book that will be the most controversial. There will be people who will hate it because they'll think we're talking about, you know, trying to be skinny or something or, you know, and that's not at all what we are hoping for. I'm not skinny. I'm not trying to talk anybody into, you know, that shameful body awareness. Like, you should love your body, whatever it is. But the idea here is to get the best sleep you can, be as hydrated as you can, um, give yourself— food is medicine— give yourself the best kind of food, um, eat a lot of great food, um, food that's good for you, food that will address— like, if you have high inflammation in your body, um, take some turmeric. Like, you know, we, we are giving practical tips for And we back it up with a lot of research and, you know, other places to do a deep dive if you want to. And inflammation in, in a singer's body is, is pretty tough because it will, it will change the way you breathe. It will change your posture. It will change the way that you sing. It will make the folds And it impacts your mood, which impacts your performance. Absolutely. All of that. And now that we know so much about the gut biome and how it tells the brain so many things, and every day there's new research in how it's linked to chronic depression and mood disorders and other things, you know, you've got to deal with your own— the nutrition and food is medicine. Instrument for your— for a singer. If you want to be a long— lifelong singer, then you have to really think about that instrument and how you need to maintain it.

Wow, awesome. You guys have given a ton of great advice here, and unfortunately we have to wrap up the conversation. Is there any last piece of advice that you'd like to give my audience, my Empower Your Voice audience, based on the, the work you're doing around mindfulness and voice?

Look for some, some mini workshops that are coming, and maybe we will— hopefully we'll be able to do some collaboration with Nancy in, in some spaces like that. And, um, and, you know, come check us out. Look at our, our, uh, webpage, mindfulnessofsinging.com, and send us an email, mindfulnessofsinging@gmail.com. It's not hard. Go to our YouTube channel, Mindfulness of Singing. We kind of stole that phrase, so reach out to us.

Yeah.

And when you come visit the site, we hope that you do sign up for the newsletter. And no matter how you're feeling, there's a little poem in the book by somebody I know, and it says, whether you feel like it or not, sing anyway. It's a So I would just encourage you to sing, and Nancy's flipping to our benefit.

I was wondering if I could— I was wondering if I could read it.

If that's the last page of the— it's the last page of the book.

Um, Sing Anyway by Toni Crowder. Sometimes I just don't feel like singing. Sing anyway, and most likely your mood will change. Sometimes I don't think my voice is pretty enough. Sing anyway. Your authentic, honest voice is pretty. Yeah. That's so true. Sometimes I just don't have enough time to sing. Sing anyway. Sing in your car, sing in the shower, sing on your walk. Sometimes I think I'm too old to sing. Sing anyway. You're never too old, too young, too fat, too thin, too rich, or too broke to sing. Fantastic. Thank you very much for being here., and I'm looking forward to the doors that this is going to open for people in the body, mind, spirit, and mindfulness of singing. Thank you.

Thank you, Nancy.

I wanna say thank you. Denise and I are so grateful to Nancy for being the publisher of our book.

That's right.

You have helped us tremendously in this journey. And when I said teamwork earlier, I was making a reference to celebrating the success of us being the number one new release on Amazon, the three of us, not just us. So thank you for your part in it, and thank you for having us today, Nancy.

Thank you. Absolutely my pleasure and my thrill to get this book out there to the world. Woo!

Thank you.

And there we have it, The Mindfulness of Singing by Toni Crowder and Dr. Denise Bernardini. Such exceptional information that they have. There are people talking about mindfulness of singing, And this information that they've gathered together in this book is the best of the best that we've got right now. It is. I'm just super excited for this. So go out to Amazon, get the book, subscribe to this podcast, tell your friends. And thank you for joining me today on Empower Your Voice. This is Nancy Bos saying goodbye for now and keep singing or keep speaking. You got this.

Yes.