The Excitable Introvert Jacquline Shaulis ES063

Hello and welcome to EverySing. I'm your host Nancy Bos. The focus of this season of EverySing is personal narratives or personal stories. Personal narrative is a big topic and we will try to cover it from lots of different angles here in EverySing. You can also learn more about it by reading my articles on my blog at lifestorydesign.com. Blogspot.com. That's lifestorydesign.blogspot.com. I also publish all the articles on my LinkedIn each day, so follow me there for updates. Everything is made possible through the support that you give my publishing work at Studio Boss Media and my events company, Celebrate Singing. If you can attend one of our regular Celebrate Singing online education and community events, and you can purchase recordings of past sessions, that's a great way to support Everything. The website is celebratesinging.com. .live. As for my books, just go to Amazon and type in my name, Nancy Bos, and they should appear. I really appreciate your support. Thank you. So today's guest is Jacqueline Schaulis, the excitable introvert. Her company is Awesome Enterprises, LLC. Jacqueline says introversion is not a flaw to fix or an obstacle to overcome. It's an invitation to live deeply and impact greatly. Jacqueline Chalice guides introverted women and intersectional introverts to get seen, heard, and respected by embracing their awesome. She is an introverted woman of color and navigated an accomplished but challenging upbringing of abuse, suicide ideation, and eating disorder to become an international speaker, global bestselling author, and advisor to Fortune 500 executives in nearly 20 countries, all while honoring her introversion. When not globetrotting with coffee in hand, sharing her expertise and her shenanigans in national media, or loudly singing out of tune— oh no, no, no, loudly singing tune adjacent at home, you can find Jacqueline getting lost in a good book or audiobook or hugging her son, his 9 cousins, or the nearest tree. I think you're going to love this. Here is Jacqueline Schaulis. Hello, Jacqueline. Welcome to EverySing. I'm so happy to have you here.

Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation.

The topic that you are exposing to the world, that you're making your mission, is super important to every person who can identify with that, or people who know people who identify with that, but also especially to singers. You can have a deep and incredible passion for singing and still be dealing with some of the topics that you have as your specialty. So starting with that idea, last week's episode of Every Sing, episode 62, Petra Raspil-Borzanski— got it right— from Scotland, and she was discussing origin stories and how those impact our reactions in the present moment. So with that in mind, can we help everybody get to know you a little bit with your origin story?

Absolutely. Well, my origin story, I guess like most people, begins in childhood. I've always been a slightly off-center child. So when other kids in kindergarten and 5 or 6 wanted to be doctors or lawyers when they grew up, I wanted to be a New York Times bestselling author. And so my aspirations and kind of what I knew to be true about myself was quite different than not only most children, I would imagine, but especially for my environment. I grew up in a I'm the oldest of 3. And so there was nothing in my environment that pointed towards any of these aspirations that I had. There was no one who's like traveling the world. And yet I knew I needed to study these different books on cultures and religions because I was going to need that when I grew up. There's no one who's looking forward to being in London and being, you know, anchors. But I would stay up late at night, actually get into trouble for it, so I could practice enunciating like BBC anchors. And I could practice like, you know, I could, I could be poised like them, like in preparation. So I had very big aspirations from single digits, um, and nothing really to reflect that, just an inner divine knowing, okay, this is, this is what I'm going to do. So I need to be prepared. Like the sky is blue, the grass is green. And so that kind of where is where everything started. The part that oftentimes gets glossed over is while there were still these aspirations. I'm an introvert, very much so. And so I need that space for making sense of my world through thinking and reflecting and observing. And these two things don't go together according to everyone else's conventional wisdom. If you are going to be on these stages, you can't be quiet and reading books. You have to be loud and boisterous and opinionated and That's not my jam. But I knew early on these two things have to be true. I just don't know how. And so in growing, it was really trying to figure out how do I honor both. I know it's possible to do both. I just don't know how to do both. And it was trial and error. And there came a point during my high school year— I ended up graduating early from high school, but I had an opportunity when I was recruited to join a debate team at a completely different school, knew no one except kind of the debate coach that was recruiting me. And I only knew her because she would chase me, literally chase me, and like hound me for a full year every time our schools had competitions together. And so she, she convinced me by her faith in my ability that maybe there was something to this, like maybe I could do something with these, these visions that I had of myself, with my I have a skill for debate. Maybe, you know, let me just see where this goes. And so going into that with a complete blank slate, knowing no one, having no ties to anything, having nothing to really lean on, it was the best thing for me because it gave me the chance to say, you know what, what if I was just this person in my mind? What if I was just her? If I was her, what would I do? Well, I would say yes to being in the school play and I would audition for the lead. As opposed to avoiding the whole thing. You know, if I was this person, then I would say yes to joining this journalism club as opposed to being behind the camera. I would want to be in front. And so I started testing the waters of what it's like to lean into this while still honoring that introspection, honoring that reflection, honoring that depth. That's just part of the introvert's experience. That is what formed the path for everything else. Everything since since then has just been more or less rinse and repeat from that high school experience. So all the things that I've accomplished, all the people that I've helped, everything else, it came from the 15, 16-year-old me. What if I just tried this? Like, what if I, what if I was really me and not who people think that I'm supposed to be? What if I was just her? Let me try it out. Maybe it'll go wrong. Let me try it out and see what happens. And I'm living what happens when you lean into that.

I'm just fascinated by— you said, "If I was that person," and then later you said, "If I was really me." And that sense of identity of, oh my gosh. Well, for one thing, in high school, we're finding out who we are, right? We're sorting out all the different options and figuring out what is appropriate. And so you were making, if I'm hearing you right, a conscious decision to be— I don't know, how would you put it? Uh, high school, what were you doing with, with the, um, if I was that person? Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Sure. I've always had this vision of who I'm supposed to be. Like, I've, I've already— I've always known this. Like, I know that I'm going to be speaking in front of thousands of people. I knew I would be traveling all over the world. I always had this vision. I don't— honestly, I don't know where— I don't know where that came from. No one in my family travels. It's not like I came from a traveling family. There was nothing. Like, our big family trip— I grew up in Dallas, Texas. Our big family trip was my— I think it was my next to last year of high school. We went from Dallas to Austin. That was our big family trip. Like, that was—

that's like 3 hours.

Yeah, so that was the extent. But I knew that I was going to be around all of these different cultures, and I needed to know what was happening. The funny part about that is so much of what I read and learned about, I actually put to use as an adult. So learning about, um, the different types, like the differences in, um, like embroidered— oh, I forgot the word, just left me. But between Austrian, Polish, and Swiss, there's like, like this little space where there's overlap. The, um, the original group that later spread out to these different countries, they have very similar apron-like dresses.

Okay.

But the difference, the way that you tell the difference if you just see them, is by the type of embroidery that they do.

Okay.

Why do I need to know this? I don't know. But at the time I read about it, I thought it was fascinating. And later on, when I'm having conversations and I'm having these conversations about this, and he will say, oh wait, this has— your grandma is wearing the— I've long since forgotten what it is now, the blah blah. And people are, what do you mean? How do you know about that? Oh, I remember reading about this. Like, she's like, yeah, knowing all of the provinces of Canada. Like, why do I need to know that? I went to graduate school in Canada and blew people's minds because I actually remember an American who knows when none of it did exist. None of it used to be part of the Northwestern Territories. And so random, random, random. So this vision that I had of myself, I knew that this was true. Like, if, if for me, if God gave me the vision and told me this is who I am, then that's true. Everything else is either not true or almost true. So if this is who I am, if I am someone who is going to be writing these books that will go around the world, award-winning, if I'm going to be on these stages, if I'm going to be traveling the world, that's true. How do I get there? Mm-hmm. Who's going to help me? No clue. But this is true. So what can I do to take steps towards that? That was like the mindset. The challenge and the friction was between my own introversion and needing that space to make sense of my world and to delve in like with mastery for all of these topics I needed to know, um, which later came in service. You know, that necessity was there because that's how I'm wired. That's how introverts are wired. That's our gift is to be able to dive deep into these subjects and to reflect on them and connect these disparate dots. How related to me being on these stages, I just had no clue. I had no idea, but I knew both of these things are true. Yeah. So somehow they're gonna come together and make sense. And so for me with kind of testing, I call it testing the waters, um, because let's just see how this goes. Maybe I'll bomb, maybe it'll go great. Either way, I'll either be where I am now or I'll be a little further ahead. So if it's going to be the same either way, Why don't I just try it and see if it works out? More often than not, it has worked out. And even the times when it didn't work out the way that I wanted it to, it did eventually work out because it put me where I needed to be to connect with the people that I needed to get the resources that I needed to get to the place I was going to anyway. Um, so I don't know where the vision of this came. I just know this is truth. Awesome.

Awesome.

Truth.

I love it. That's, that is a fantastic origin story. Thank you for that. So we better jump into introversion and personal narrative. And I listened to a neurologist podcast, his name is Huberman. And he's talked recently about neurology of introversion being that you are simply satiated by exposure to other people more quickly than extroverts. For instance, if people were candy bars, an introvert would maybe need half of a candy bar, where an extreme extrovert would need 3 candy bars before they were satisfied, right? And, um, so that's a new spin on extroversion to me. I would love to hear how you define it. You must have it thoroughly defined for your business, right?

And I would— there's one caveat that often gets left out of a lot of the conversations around introversion and extroversion. It's often put into the context of social engagement.

Right.

But it's this, this, um, satiation is not just with us, with— it's not simply a matter of us socializing with other people. This level of engagement comes from stimulation that we're receiving. So for introverts, let's just take a situation. We're at the mall. You're at the mall. You're at a food court, someplace where it's loud, it's boisterous. There's lots of people, but no one's bothering you. You are sitting at a table by yourself. The extrovert will want to engage with all of the things that are going on. They'll want to have chats with people like, hey, is that good? Oh man, I should have done that. Oh, that's good. Like just all of this type of engagement. This is like their jam. All of this stimulation. For introverts, us just sitting there by ourselves with no one bothering us, we're overwhelmed. We're overwhelmed not because anyone is doing anything with or about us, but we're taking in the conversations that are happening. We are looking at how people are interacting with one another. We're thinking about why did we even I didn't come here. We should have brought a sandwich. Am I really hungry? Maybe I should have gone to the other side. Oh, what if my face is showing what I'm thinking and now people think I'm being rude because I'm sitting here and I'm scowling while I'm thinking. All of this doop is what's going on with our minds. No one has talked to us. No one has looked our way. No one has anything to do with us. And we still feel that sense of sorting through everything because we're taking in so much stimulation. Extroverts need to engage with their world to make sense of things. And so them just sitting and watching, it's like, just beat me with a baseball bat. Just, that's horrible. Like that's a fate worse than death because in order for them to make sense with their world, they need to talk it through. They need to walk through, they need to engage with it in order to figure out what's what. We see all of it and have to have time away from the stimulation because we see everything, we feel everything, we're processing everything and it It takes time for us to sift through what's actually important as opposed to what's just what we observe or what we are feeling about what we're observing. So hopefully that clarifies and expands a bit. It's not only with how we're engaging with other people, it's with stimulation, period. Yeah.

So I— what I'm hearing is, say, say you want to— you're a professional speaker, or speaking about the professional singer, there's nothing stopping the introvert from being the professional speaker. The pressure— just because they don't love to be in the conference room with 10,000 other people doesn't mean they can't get up on the stage and do a smashing job.

Completely safe. Yeah, completely safe.

And it's not the same as shy.

It's a completely separate thing. Yeah. Yes. It's not— shy is completely different. Right. Right. Introversion is how you're processing your world. Shyness is, I want to engage, I want to talk to these people, I want to do it, but I feel like I'm inadequate. I'm worried about how I'll be judged. I'm not, I'm not enough to be able to engage in this situation, so I won't participate at all. That's very different than I'm seeing everything, I'm hearing everything, I'm thinking about it all. Oh God, I just, I want everyone to disappear so my brain can rest. So two completely different things.

The white hot spotlight in your eyes blocking everyone out is actually very much a gift then. That's good.

Very much so. And, and one of the benefits of introverts as we're in these really high-energy, like, forward-facing professions, like being actors, public speakers, musicians, even business leaders, is we have plenty of introverts that are in all of those. The benefit of what we do, because we are able to take all of these disparate pieces and connect the dots, it helps us to be able to craft a vision of what needs to happen and then find the people or resources that need to be plugged into it. So we may not be the ones who are leading the conversation or who are, um, the ones who are going to be in the photos and everything. We may show up for the photo and then we will disappear into the ether. And we will blow your mind with what we have to share and how we're able to speak so in depth to your particular soul in this sea of thousands of people. And then we will disappear. Like, we'll, we'll be like Prince. Like, a purple cloud will show up, it vanishes, and so are we. Like, just, we are able to do that as part of our gift. That's part of the benefit and really the invitation of introversion for us to be able to share that. Now you have people like Beyoncé who— she's an introvert and she's spoken numerous times about how her introversion has served her being the success that she is in her music and her artistry and her directing, how she even forms her different creative endeavors. Like all of this, her introversion plays into that. Simon Sinek is another introvert who has spoken quite a bit on the fact that he loves being able to serve, but he has to prepare himself for that. He has to prepare his energy for being able to pour into people, not because it's a challenge to do that, but because people want to engage with him afterward. And so getting that energy up to transmit what we have to be of service, that part is the easiest part. Right, because being able— for us to be able to deliver with service and with value, that's something that is very common for introverts. But the energy that's needed to engage and to take in the surroundings before and after the service, that's when we need the time to, to, to decompress. We need that time to re-energize. And a small caveat to that, um, and we were talking a bit about this on the social part Many times people talk about introverts like not needing to, to be around people in order to re-energize. That's not quite true. We can be very much re-energized if there are people who understand us, that we don't have to take the energy to explain ourselves and to justify ourselves. And for people who want to go in depth with their conversations, you start an introvert talking on something they're passionate about, they will go for weeks, like talking nonstop. Like if they are a wealth spring of information, but it's in those moments where they are able to connect with people who have a similar— not even a similar view, but a similar appreciation for like depth and nuance and want to explore that further. That is a wonderfully energizing experience. And so even with those high energy and really outward-facing professions, Being able to have those kinds of connections, very engaging. And I'll go back to Beyoncé for a quick moment. In some of her live concerts, she'll have these moments, and Adele is another introvert who does this, who has these live moments where they're engaging with the audience. You know, they stop and they talk to them. They may bring someone onto the stage, and they're having these touching moments. These are ways for them to incorporate re-energizing. They've poured out all of this. Now they have this moment to not only create connection with their audience, but for them to get that little boost of energy so they can continue on with the rest of this concert before they disappear into the ether. Wow. So there are lots of ways for us to engage. There are lots of ways for us to reenergize. But if you're thinking of introversion in terms of this is something that you need to be away from people, that you need to fix it so you can be successful.

What I'm wondering now is, I— what I heard from your youth is, is that you were, um, maybe a little confused yourself about introverts don't belong in the New York Times bestseller list. And, and now what I've heard you say as an adult is you totally realize that's not the case, that it's a completely different definition than that super simple and silly one that we've had in the past. But I'm wondering about the narrative that people have that you're trying to touch, their own personal narratives, the stories that they're telling themselves, and you help them understand that there is a choice. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Absolutely. Well, a lot of, a lot of my own experience, I didn't have the language for what I was experiencing. And so like, as an adult looking in hindsight, like, I know what was happening. I knew that, I knew this was true, and they knew this was true. I don't know what to call any of this, but I, I know these two concepts. I know I can be successful. I know that I I need my time to like be away from people, be in. No idea of introvert being a word for this experience. No idea of like solitude or re-energizing, like no concepts of these things being what I was doing and what I needed and how I processed. So as I got older and learned these terms and began to play around with it, one, it helped me to know like, okay, I'm not alone. I'm not the weirdo because I'm the introvert in a family family of extroverts on both sides.

Oh no.

I'm one of maybe, I maybe have, I have an aunt that's more ambivert, um, and maybe a cousin that I'm forgetting, but that's like it out of all of my mom's brothers and sisters and cousins and nieces and nephews and my dad. So very lonely island. Very lonely island. Yes. To be the lone one, um, who, who wants to go into deaf families. And so So there was that aspect of it. But then also there's this, with the conversations for women that I've had with interviewing them and as clients, some of the narratives that they have are very similar where they have been told because they're quiet, asking them, you know, is there something wrong? I mean, you're just so quiet. Is there anything wrong? And they're having the time of their life. They're just sitting here. Somewhere I've been in that boat. Why does something have to be wrong because you're quiet? 'Never mind,' or asking if there's a problem. 'Do you have a problem with me because you're not talking to me?' This comes up quite a bit for— this has come up in my own life and also for the women that I've worked with with interviewing, and this tends to happen more for women of color who are introverted as opposed to other introverted women or even introverted men of color. This notion of someone simply being quiet, it can be that you're reflective or that you're very reserved or that you're thoughtful, or it can be that you're aggressive and that you're combative and that you seem to have a bad attitude towards people. Black women tend to have the latter associated with this same expression as opposed to their introverted white women extroverted white women, men who are introverted, like just across the board. Everybody. Yeah. Yeah. And so the challenge with that comes with not only trying to recognize this is how I process, I don't need to change, but also how do I then navigate the world when most of, at least for Western society, points towards extroversion as being the gold standard. If you're wanting to succeed and you're wanting to do well, you need to get out of your shell. You need to stop being an extrovert. You need to stop being such an introvert. You just need to go out and put yourself out there. When it's not that simple. I often equate it to asking someone to take their arm off. You know, you just need to take off your arm. You need to take your arm off. You would be able to— what kind of nonsense is that? But it's just as absurd.

You're telling an introvert they just need to stop being so introverted or they need to stop And, or, or even then what comes along with that is, is this incredible blame game, blame game, that there's something wrong with you, you are deficient. Oh, and then to, to not own that, to push that back and say no, that's—

yeah, that's, that's the unspoken, uh, law that's passed, and it's difficult to get past that. And for me, the struggle was not so much with me living into this vision, but how do I live into this vision when everyone is telling me I can't? Because even if you never say the words to me, the fact that everything is saying you need to be loud, you're supposed— as a Black woman, the stereotype is that you're loud, you're going to parties, you're doing— I'm not doing any of those things. And so now there's this added layer. This is where intersectional introversion becomes so important. And that's deeper into the work that I do of how being a woman, how being a woman of color and being introverted altogether creates this whole new dynamic. And it's a very different world than if you're simply addressing issues of introversion. So similar to when we, when we were talking about processing stimulation and how things are often put into the context of being in a social environment, you're at a party or you're in a crowded bus or something like this. Introversion has something to do with that, but it's a lot more complex than that. And similarly, when we're looking at the typical advice that's given, even the ways that people approach or internalize the stories of introversion, it's not as simple as saying, okay, now that you're an introvert, now you just lean into your introversion. Yes, that's true. And also you have to recognize that part of what you'll be doing as leaning into that will be education for those around you. So setting boundaries is going to be difficult for the people around you because typically an introvert, to avoid any type of confrontation, will say, okay, I'll take that on. Like, if you just stop talking to me, if I say yes, anything to make you go away.

Yeah.

And so now, now when, when we individually— and I put myself into that as well as we're setting these boundaries and saying, okay, I do not want to do this, and it's not necessary for me to do this, so I will opt out of doing this. That's not a blight to anyone else. It's us setting boundaries. But for someone who is looking at all of these other intersections and take it as, okay, now you're being insubordinate, as opposed to just setting boundaries, It creates a completely different dynamic, completely different conversation, and completely different and much longer-lasting ramifications of that. Now imagine going through all of that and beginning to internalize it. It's a very complex ball of wax that it's important to look at some of these nuanced layers of it and recognize that introversion, like extroversion, is not That's simple. It's not just a simple, "Okay, you smile today. Check off a box." Yeah.

Oh my gosh. I'm kind of blown away. I mean, of course I'm blown away. This is huge. And it's so essential. So I believe then, especially with Black women who are experiencing, or women of color who are experiencing this extroversion in such a discriminatory fashion, that you are providing first, I see you, you're not alone, and I hear you, that there are these things. Yes, I acknowledge that this has been really difficult. Are you also able to help them find a way forward into finding— I think you call it their awesomeness?

Yes, yes, that's really the, the crux of everything is embracing your awesome. Because, and very briefly, AWESOME is an acronym. It stands for Amazing Works of Expression Serving Others with Maximum Enjoyment.

Amazing Works of Expression Serving Others with Maximum Enjoyment. Oh, there's joy in there. I love it.

So absolutely. And you need all three for anyone, but especially for introverted women of color, it's essential you have all three. What are the three? First is your your amazing works of expression. That's all the ways that you show up in the world. You're a woman, you're a mother, you're a friend, you're a coffee lover, et cetera. All of these different identities that we have, each of these identities gives us an opportunity to show up in different ways, but we can't silo ourselves. I can't just be an employee and not be a mother and not be a wife, not be a sister. Because all of that together is what makes me who I am, for one, and it allows the nuance that allows every aspect of me to be honored and to be beneficial. So recognizing all of these hats, they're all different amazing works of expression, all different ways for your soul's purpose and calling to shine through. That's one. The second one is serving others, like so. And that one is understanding that your life is a lesson and it can be a lesson of aspiration or it can be a cautionary tale. Either way, your life is a lesson.

Don't do it this way. I love it.

We all have people who we've never met, we will never meet, but we look at what they're doing. Man, I can go on another few. Oh my God. Wow, are you fit? I will never. Like we all have those people who we've watched. And lots of ones who are in between. But the recognition that your life's a lesson and that it's a lesson not just for others but for you too. Your experiences are ways— they're cobblestones and breadcrumbs for you as you're going along the way and for the people coming behind you. They're a way for others to see, oh, I didn't know how I was going to make it through this. She made it through it. Oh my gosh, if she made it through all of that, my big little problems are going to be okay. So these are, yeah, these are all ways that we serve others through our lives. So that's so, that's the second part. And the last one is maximum enjoyment. And that is the recognition that you need to have things that are for purely your own joy, your own joy, your delight, your pleasure, because your joy then becomes a service. It's the difference between someone walking into a room and it's just, things feel lighter. Like you don't interact with them at all. It's just like, what, what shifted? And you notice like they're coming through the room or someone who came in and just everything like did, like just did. Being able to be in that space of maximum enjoyment allows you to be more of the former versus the latter. It allows you to, just because you occupy space, you are in the room that you are able to bring that sense of lightness and of light to any aspect in any area that you're in. That's from your joy, not because you did something for someone else, but you did it for your own pleasure. So when you need to do those things you don't wanna do, changing diapers, taking out the trash, firing a client, et cetera, you can do so by tapping into that internal joy that's just for you. So those are the 3 areas for your amazing works of expression, serving others with maximum enjoyment. For us introverts, we need these more than the regular because there are so many places that we are, we are really pushed to compromise ourselves as introverts. We can't always find a place to recharge, and so we have to keep pushing through on fumes until we can get a moment to recharge. So how can we work this awesome so that we have less of those moments more of those moments of engagement, more of those moments of refreshing, more of those moments of joy for joy's sake, however that looks for us, so that when we do show up in the areas through our work, at home, within our own, how we view ourselves, we show up from a place of power that honors how we influence as well as our introversion.

Awesome.

I feel like that was a lot. Wow. Thank you.

In a nutshell, and unfortunately we have to wrap it up there for the sake of, you know, trying to honor the time of the podcast. So there's got to be people here who, I mean, like me, I'm so excited to know you now, especially before you've gotten your New York Times bestseller book. I mean, I knew her when, and yeah, it's on the way. So where do people get more of Jacqueline Chalice?

Always find and connect with me at iembraceawesome.com. So when you go to iembraceawesome.com, you'll find out the work that I'm doing. You'll have some tools there that you can use to support you on, across the social verse, all the platforms. I'm at JK Shawless, which you'll see at iembraceawesome.com. Yeah, go there. You can find everything about me there. Awesome.

And, and tell me, how can, how can people benefit directly from the work that you're doing? Doing? Do you work with individuals? Do you work with group coaching, public speaking, books, articles? What, what have you got out there for us?

The whole enchilada. My jam, my jam is being able to work with, um, high, high potential women. And so if you have a vision of who you are, you're not sure how to tap into that, be sure to go to IEmbraceAwesome.com and reach out to you. But if you're looking to bring a dose of awesome to your organization or to your company, I do workshops and I do seminars as well.

Awesome. Oh, and now I'm stuck on that word. But thank you so much for being—

It's like once you're exposed to it, it's difficult, right? It's difficult to say something else.

It is.

Okay.

This has been terrific, Jacqueline. I have really enjoyed talking with you. Thank you so much for being on EverySing, and I can't wait to see what's next for you.

Thanks so much.

Oh, I love talking with Jacqueline. If you want to listen to it again, you have a choice of the audio podcast or the YouTube recording on the EverySing channel. EverySing is two words on YouTube and everywhere else. Follow up with Jacqueline on her website, which is jacquelineschaulis.com, or social media where she uses the tag J @jkshaulis, J-K-S-H-A-U-L-I-S. That wraps it up for today. Thank you for being here. Thanks to Steven and Shannon O'Bent for the great theme music. And let me leave you with this: May you find joy in singing. May you feel the blessings of singing in your body and soul. May you share your voice without judgment. And may you sing with love in your heart. I'm your host, Nancy Bosco. I'm Nancy Bos. Thanks for joining me.