Ep #127: How to Instruct People How to Treat You: A Real-Life Example

Welcome to the Get a Six-Figure Job You Love podcast. This is episode 127, How to Instruct People How to Treat You, a Real-Life Example. Hey there, welcome to the Get a Six-Figure Job You Love podcast. I'm your host, Natalie Fisher. I'm a certified career mindset coach who also happens to wanna skip all the BS and get to what it really takes to create real results for you in your career. On this podcast, you will create real mindset shifts that will lead to big results and big changes in your career. and your income. No fluff here. If you want to get a 6-figure job you love and create real concrete results in your industry and make a real impact, you're in the right place. Are you ready? Let's go. So I'm recording this podcast. My baby is sleeping, so if you hear her, she might squirm, but I had to come on and record this because something just happened. And I wanted to talk to y'all about it, and I thought it was a great opportunity for just some, some spontaneous sharing on my part. So I was on LinkedIn and I just got into, I would say, my very first kind of disagreement in the comment section of somebody's post. And I don't normally like to get into disagreements. I normally shy away from drama, and I'm not really Like gonna respond, but this one really called to me because I felt like it was, it was standing up for all the people who tolerate mistreatment. And I used to be one of them. So I felt like I really had to drive this point home. And I got to tell you, it felt really, really good. So, so here's the post. A lovely job seeker had posted about the disrespect that she had felt and received During her process. And this is what she said. She said, I get the market is tough, but the disrespect I've received over the past few months since being laid off has been jaw-dropping. Company A, on my 4th round of interviews with the director, he took the interview in an Uber stating he thought he'd be at the airport by now and barely gave me the time of day. The next company, after presenting a mock QBR, the interviewer stated, I would hire you now, but If another interviewer does better, we'll probably hire them. Company C, number 3, said mispronounced her name 5 times, even though she has a voice note option on LinkedIn. And she corrected the person during the call several times, and they didn't even seem to care or apologize. And then she says, remember, candidates are interviewing you just like you're interviewing them. Treat us with respect we deserve. And so, I was like, yeah, totally. So I thought, okay, I could be helpful here. I can write some, some useful comments for anybody reading this and for her maybe in the future. So I said, I'm sorry for this ridiculousness. And I typed it out and I said, here are some possible things that you could say for you to be able to stand in self-respect. I said to the Uber guy, I think it's best we set up a time where you have the ability to give your full focus to this interview. So I'll let you go and we can totally reschedule for a time when you can be fully present. And then I stated, or whatever your way of saying is, I deserve your full attention. So let me know if and when you're ready to give that. Otherwise, I'm not going to be available for this. Thanks anyway. And the tone can't always be conveyed in the, in the writing. So I understand if somebody maybe, maybe thought I was like being really defensive here. I'll get to that. But anyway, this is the tone that it was meant in. And anyone who knows me knows I'm not really a defensive person. So I'm just, I'm just really trying to get the candidate to show up in a way that they feel good about. I said, okay, to person 2, you could say, hey, thanks for your honesty. It's true. I may not consider this offer. And if I get a better one, or when I get a better one, I'll for sure take that one. Right? And then I said, or that's your way of saying, yeah, well, I might not even want your offer anyway. We don't know that yet. And I would take a better offer if I were to get one. So it is business. Yeah. To person 3, I suggested they say, hey, before we move on, I'd just like to make sure that you're able to pronounce my name, because if we're going to work together, it'll be important that you know how to say my name correctly. If that's not something you can do, then no worries, but I don't know if this is a fit. So those are my suggested responses. And then I said, or your way of saying, hey, there's a certain standard of how I want to be treated, and if you can't meet that, then that's cool, but I'm probably not going to be a fit for working here. Right? So these are the things I said. And then I had a bunch of lovely people chime in and saying, these are really good and these are gold and this is awesome. And then we have our arguer and he goes, he comes in and he says, hey, Natalie, as a career coach, you wouldn't really suggest people say this, right? Each of these responses seems filled with disdain as if everyone is trying to offend you and you are counterattacking on Twitter. This will not get you job offers. And then he proceeds to lay out his responses. And And they're very, very like submissive, subdued, kind of empathetic in the package of empathy. And he goes, Number 1, oh bummer, I see you're stuck in a car. I know you have difficulty with interviewing and how it's thrown at you and you're still managing all your other life. I prepared extensively for this, so I want to make sure I'm able to be present and my best self. So, and I also want to get input from you on the potential job. Do you know if there's a better time we could shift this to? And this is not a bad response either. Like, this is fine too. It's still respecting The person, right? But it gets better. 2, he says, I totally understand how competitive the market is right now. I also want to be transparent in that I'm interviewing with multiple locations right now, and I'm eager to start in my new role. If you think I meet all the needs for this role, let's talk about next steps as soon as you're able, because I don't think that I will wait that long to make my decision. This is also actually a good answer. 3, I'm sorry, I know that it's tricky. Then give them a helpful antidote to remember The correct way to say your name. You have an unfamiliar name, that might be an asset. And then, yeah. So anyways, I'm reading over his responses now and I'm like, you know what? They're not bad responses. Like they're actually fine. But the point of them is not the actual words themselves. The point is how the candidate feels when they are responding. So, and we had people come in and say, after that, respond to this guy and saying, I'm not sure I would suck up to just get the job. Interviewing is a 2-way process, and I rejected an organization the other day as a consequence for how poorly they sold themselves in the interview. And then I responded with, my examples are not meant from disdain or defensiveness, but from a place of self-respect. That might not come through in the tone of writing, but they are meant to kind of jolt the person into thinking, oh hey, I'm really not giving this person the respect they deserve, or, oh yeah, I do need to be more mindful of how I'm treating people because obviously, you know, they respect themselves. They might not consciously think that, but when you respond like I've suggested, I do see that people self-correct and they do kind of perk up. They're like, oh, hmm, yeah, okay, maybe they have a point. And the dynamic instantly shifts. Whereas if you respond with just that empathetic, very subdued response, like lots of people do that, it's very expected. So everybody's like, oh yeah, yeah, everyone's understanding. And it kind of reaffirms that the employer is the powerful one in the position of power. It doesn't really level out the playing field for the candidate to then say, hey, you know what? I'm high value. I'm in high demand. So if you want me, I'm being really nice about it, but you're going to have to treat me a little better. And it does change the dynamic and where the person receiving that feedback and where their head goes and how they feel. And I've had clients do this and people really do take notice. They apologize. They realize that they need to make more of an effort in the interaction. And it does make this person that says the thing feel more high value and be more of a higher perceived value. So my point is for the person, for the candidate to respond however feels the best for them, right? And I don't know about you, but to me it's never really felt good, even though I've done it a whole bunch of times. And I— it just doesn't feel good to say, oh, I'm sorry, yeah, I know that's really hard for you, okay, yeah, I'll just wait until you can interview me, like, it's okay, I'll just wait, like, I understand you're the one who has all the power, you're the one who can, who can make the decision, so I better just, you know, please you and be nice to you so that you can, you know, go on with your life because it's so busy, right? Right? That doesn't feel good to me. So I like to, I like to kind of say it in a way that would, would hopefully get them to take notice of, hey, you know what? You're going to miss out if you don't act a little bit more respectfully. And you know what? It doesn't mean I don't like you. It doesn't mean I don't respect you. It just means that I'm just not going to handle that. Like, and I understand that your life is tough and all that. Like, I get that, but I'm still just not cool with it. So Being empathetic and holding your own boundaries, being empathetic and commanding respect are not the same thing. And I think that's maybe what was getting mixed up in this thread here, because he— and he just kept coming back. So I think it's just kind of funny. Like, it was a really good way for me to kind of demonstrate my point and be like, hey, you know what? I actually do really feel strongly about this and I'm going to stand up for it. And I'm going to, I'm going to die on this hill. And anyways, so somebody else had said, Oh yeah. He also said, you will not get job offers from this. He felt very strongly about this too. Anyway, so somebody else had replied into the thread and they said, these responses are submissive, which may be fine if you're willing to set that tone from the beginning with your employer and with the company. But if that's the case, you also have to prepare for how you're going to be treated moving forward. This is why most people are not happy in their jobs because they choose the submissive route from the beginning. And then she says, from my experience, I've been much more successful when I've put people in their place from day one. And if I've been disrespected, then that's necessary. They tend to actually respect you more because to Natalie's point, they are jolted into recognizing how they have behaved and they will usually self-correct. This is a way of giving people the benefit of the doubt without accepting disrespect or ongoing abuse at work. Also results in better pay and promotions. Absolutely. Anyways, I had lots of people jumping in and agreeing with me and nobody was agreeing with this guy. So he was losing the argument and eventually he stopped responding. Then somebody else had said that too. They're like, yeah, no, I wouldn't put up with this crap either. And, and it's just kind of like how the post was written. Like she just felt disrespected. And I, I believe that she was. And this dude, right, it was like the candidate saying, oh, you're being an asshole, but I understand. Cause you know, everything's really tough out there and your job is so tough and, and you know, you're being an asshole, but I get it. So I kind of said that. I don't know if I read that part out, but then anyway, he responds with, none of them were being assholes, especially when you have no context as to what they treat normal people like. Person 1 could take phone calls from the car all the time. Person 2 might be completely new and have no training. Person 3 might just be forgetful. And then he said, I don't think responding in sharpness is the call when you don't have context around the person's intentions. And I said, Totally. And the candidate has to judge that on a case-by-case basis. And I said, we don't know. And that's the whole thing, because neither of us were there in that person's shoes. All we know is what she said and how she felt and how she described her experience. And I believe her. And that is her call. That's the person's call. And then, yeah, I think he stopped responding. No, I think he— there was one more. It went on for a while, which I don't want to bore you with, but I was like, you know, because I'm getting bigger on LinkedIn. So I have approaching 13,000 followers and I'm like, lots more people are seeing my stuff and this is gonna happen. I'm gonna have opportunities to get into controversial discussions, gonna be more seen. And a lot of people that really scares them and that's why they don't want that. They don't wanna get too big cuz being seen is hard. And I'm, I've been working on that cuz I know that that's part of what I'm building here is like, if I'm gonna make a big impact, I'm gonna have to be seen by more people. And so anyways, he says, He responded to that other person who said, you know, put people in their place from day one and you're kind of setting the tone. And he goes, you explain it like you're an animal trainer losing charge of your pack. I don't think it's the way. I realize that sometimes people do intend to be disrespectful, but I think these were misunderstandings. And when you respond with no, not taking offense, you are better off. Putting people in their place in a professional environment doesn't result in a net positive. It doesn't make that person excited to work with you in the future. They will just avoid you. And, oh, there's just so much wrong with what he's saying. I'm just like, we don't have to have completely no empathy for the person, but we also, like, at the end of the day, need to, need to be okay with how we're being treated. Like, that is the most important thing. Because if you're not treated well, if you're not feeling good, it's like he's putting so much onto the other person. Like, oh, they need to be considered. It's like, no, that's people pleasing. It's like putting everyone else first before you. It's like, that's not going to help you or, or them because you're not going to do your best work anyway. So Another commenter says, Natalie, I'm happy to see that there are career coaches out there telling people to stop putting up with this crap. Keep spreading your message. Empathy and accepting disrespect are so not the same thing. Anyway, so he stopped responding and I just said, you know what? You got to do you. Each person just needs to do what works for them. Your thoughts are valid, but not everyone needs to agree with you. Keep doing what works for you. Because I think what he was doing was just trying to push everyone into this direction of people pleasing. And it's weird because it's like, okay, and I don't want to make it about gender, but like, he's a man, so maybe that will work better for him. Maybe he needs to go— like, maybe in bro culture they should all be really considerate of each other, right? But like, I know for me, I put up with a lot of disrespect for a long time, and you know, I was very empathetic for like 10 years, and it's like, that got me nowhere. And it's like, you can be empathetic, but you also need to command how to treat you. And That will uplevel your life. You will get paid more, you will get more opportunities, you will get seen differently, you will be respected, and it all starts with respecting yourself. So I hope this wasn't too much of a rant. It's a little bit of a different episode than I normally do, and I hope you enjoyed it. I just had to come on and do it right away because I was like, this is too good not to share with y'all. All right, well, I'll talk to you next week. Bye. Bye-bye. If I were to sum it up, I would say the most common thing people come to me with is, I'm going on interview after interview after interview and I'm not getting the offer. What am I doing wrong? So I've put together a freebie where you can get this download completely free. It has the 8 reasons that this is happening, and I break down each reason very specifically And how to fix it. So to grab that download, the link is in the show notes. You can click on that link. You just have to enter your information. It's called The 8 Reasons You're Not Getting Hired, and I will help you figure that out. I will see you in the freebie. Okay. Talk to you soon. Bye.