Ep #196: How to Move from a Low-Value Environment & Identity to a High-Value One: A Client Success Interview with Lizzie Campanella

Hello and welcome to the Get a Six-Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast. This is episode 196, How to Move from a Low-Value Environment and Identity to a High-Value One. And I'm chatting with my superstar client, Lizzy Campanella, today for the second time on the podcast. So last time she was able to get a part-time UX job where she was making more part-time than she was full-time as a teacher, just in that part-time job. And now she has transitioned to a full-time job for her dream company, working in such an aligned space for her. Can't wait for you to hear this story and how she got there. And this is for you teachers out there who are underselling yourself. I really think Lizzie's done a great job here of providing an example of what's possible for you all without having to do anything different. She'll talk to you about it. Listen into this one. You're not going to want to miss it. Welcome to the Get a 6-Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast, where I, Natalie Fisher, am teaching you weekly how to land your premium role that you love And thrive in it. Let's go. Hello. Hello. Excited to have a special guest back on the podcast today. She's been on once before and she's just created another big success. And I'm excited to have Lizzie Campanella with us today. Lizzie, start by reintroducing yourself and telling us a little bit about you for those listeners who don't know you.

Yeah, so I'm Lizzie. I am now a customer success manager, but I've had quite the journey. I started My career off as a teacher, elementary art teacher. I did that for about 9 years and, you know, started to feel like I wanted to try something else. I wanted to do something a little more, maybe something with higher pay. So I shifted into UX design. I took like a boot camp and I left teaching and I started, you know, contracting. And now here I am today. just got my first full-time job.

Full-time? Yes, because the last time we spoke you had gotten a part-time, which was pretty exciting at the time. And now you've essentially doubled what you did last time, which I think you were on the podcast maybe it was like 3 months ago or 4 months ago.

Yeah, it was back in November.

Yeah, okay, so a few months, maybe 6. But yeah, in a short amount of time what you've been able to do is very inspiring and awesome. And so yeah, I thought I'd take the opportunity today to dig into that shift that you had to make from being a teacher to now being a customer success manager and whatever you did in between that to get to where you are now. So first thing I wanted to ask, did you talk openly about being a teacher? Did you have any concerns about what people would think about you being an art teacher and that history that you brought to the new jobs you wanted to do?

Yes, you know, I did talk about it in my interviews, but I think, you know, I've been through a lot of interviews, and I think at the beginning I did kind of view it as a negative thing. Maybe not negative, but that people would be like, oh, you know, she's just a teacher. And because I don't think that others really realize all that teachers really do. Yeah. And honestly, I didn't myself really realize either. I mean, I can't hide it. That is how I started. I don't wanna come into these interviews like I'm just brand new to the workforce. Like, I do have a pretty big— big professional background behind me. And so I was feeling that, but I wasn't really understanding myself of like all the skills that I brought to the table because of teaching. I just knew that like, well, I'm gonna just mention that I was a teacher. And you know, I never really got any kind of negative feedback in my interviews because of that, honestly. Not like I thought I was going to.

What was people's reaction when you told them? You talked about your teaching history.

I think honestly they were more impressed with the fact that I had this career and I was in it for so long and I decided to leave. And that's pretty like courageous, you know? And so that's really where they were impressed. Like, wow, you know, like at that point a lot of people wouldn't leave their career. So it was less about like maybe, you know, they didn't really say much about like being a teacher. They know it's hard. They know it's like there's a lot that goes into it, but maybe they're not fully aware. But I think they were just really impressed with the fact that I was like transitioning and had already kind of done so.

Yeah, yeah, that's so good. So the focus was more on like, oh, that's really impressive, that's actually really courageous of you, and they actually thought positively about you because of this decision you'd made, instead of what most people, or a lot of teachers that I— in like in our group, that's why I wanted to do this episode— was, uh, are thinking, oh, they're gonna think that I'm less valuable, they're gonna think That I don't have a lot to bring to the table. They're going to think you were just a teacher, right? And like, that's not what happened to you. That wasn't your experience.

No, not at all.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

So after, after a while, like I went through a few interviews where I feel like my main focus almost was like, well, I was a teacher, you know? And like, I started to, you know, after I joined the program, I started making some mindset shifts about who I was as a teacher and the things that I had done and like, Then I started coming in a little more confident. And I think at that point, like, it doesn't really— I don't need to like shy away from it or be scared. And I don't need to also focus on like the fact that I was a teacher either. Like, I could have just kind of mentioned, you know, I was a teacher, did all these really cool things, made the shift, and I just kind of quickly sort of moved away from it.

Yeah. But they always— it wasn't relevant to what you were doing in the new role.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Okay, it was a really good way to handle it. So did you have any other concerns about how they might kind of respond or what they would think? Or like, I guess I'm asking, how did you shift? Because you said in the beginning you did kind of have those concerns, and then was it just, I'm gonna put myself out there anyway and see what happens? Or was it like— Well, tell me what it was like to how to shift. I think you had to say you had to do it at some point. Yeah,

I did. And I remember this one interview that I went on, and I feel like I caught myself afterwards, like reflecting on it, talking about being a teacher almost like in a negative way. And, you know, not really like I'm the one who brought the focus to it and like, well, yeah, you know, I was a teacher, but now I'm doing this. I'm doing this thing and this thing. But yeah, you know, I did do that for 9 years. But, and I like noticed afterwards I was saying it a certain way instead of just feeling confident about it like I should. And those shifts really started happening after like coming to the program and just like absorbing everything and like feeling, you know, more confident in myself and like really sitting down to think about all A, B, C, D, E, all the way to Z, all the things that I have done as a teacher.

Yeah. And

that's when it started to change. And, you know, and then I was like, yeah, I was a teacher.

Yeah. That's so different. The tone, the subtlety of that. So good. So good. I'm glad you shared that. So how, like, when you did the shifting in the program, did you do it with a certain activity or a certain practice that you had? Or how did you, how would you say that happened for you?

Honestly, like, and I said this in the last time I was on the podcast as well, it was, it was really about listening to others and their successes and their shifts that they had to make. And I, I kind of learned from absorption. So

yeah,

it was like, okay. I need to think in the way that they were thinking when they had their success, and then I will too have success. So honestly, that was the number one thing that helped me the most.

So smart.

Out of anything, coming to the meetings every Tuesday and just listening to everyone like kind of talk and talk about the good things that were happening and then like kind of seeing what their energy was like and like, okay, I think that needs to be my energy.

Yeah. So smart. Yeah, I could see exactly why you quantum leaped to where you are. Yeah, like very like a strategic way to approach the information. Okay, cool. So about the salary. So now you're like all in, you're making 6 figures and you've got a good structure there. It's really very exciting. Another thing that people struggle with a lot is the going from a really low value environment to a high value environment. So I've seen a lot of teachers be like, well, I don't see any, there isn't any opportunity for me out there that I could do. I don't check these boxes. I'm not qualified officially for these opportunities. Just like a really difficult struggle getting over that, like, this could be totally possible for me coming from teaching. Do you have thoughts about that?

Yeah, you know what, I think a lot of it is just believing that you do have the value and the skills. I think it has to come from there first.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, like even this job that I applied for, I, it's, I didn't check all the boxes as far as like being a customer success manager before. I mean, I've never done something like that before, but I knew I could. And I knew that there are things that I have done in the past that the skills are going to like shine in this position. And so I was just like, I'm gonna go for it. This is a company that I've been wanting to work with for a long time, and I think I could do this. Not I think, I just know I could. So I just, I just applied and you know what? It worked out and you know, yeah, I'm a little nervous to start because it is something new, but I know that I can pull from everything that I've done before, especially from being a teacher. I know I can pull from that and I will be just fine.

Yeah. You almost talk about it like it's a superpower now.

Yeah.

You're like, I'm gonna pull from my superpower teaching abilities. Yeah. And all the things that they had you be responsible for when you were a teacher, because yeah, I've heard from a lot of former teachers and I'm definitely convinced that they're the best hires. So I think that's the work, like you said, is convincing yourself of it first, however you have to do that. So why do you think the problem exists? It's so like rampant in that like so many teachers have such a struggle to overcome it. And I mean, we don't have to just be talking about teaching here. It's like if you've been used to making a very low salary for a very long time and you want to move into a higher salary, if you want to switch careers in any form? Like, because this is a pretty big switch, like teaching to customer success or to UX. It's a pretty big different thing. So why do you think the— in your opinion, that's so hard for people to kind of embrace that new change even though they really want it?

Honestly, I think it's because, you know, especially if you're in a career as a teacher for a long time, it's all you know. And I mean, if you think about it, you start school When you're 5, and then you continue into college and you're still in school. And then if you become a teacher, you're still in school. And so it's all you know, you know, it's like you don't feel— I didn't feel like I could do anything else for a long time. It was like, I always knew I wanted to, like I got into teaching, I think it was my 3rd or 4th year. And I was like, I don't want to do this forever. But I don't know what else I could do. I mean, this is all I know.

And yeah,

that's the thought process for a lot

of people. Yeah.

Yeah, it's all I know and I don't know how to do anything else. I hear that all the time from my teacher friends, like, well, I can't do what you do cuz I don't know anything else. Like, well, I didn't know anything else either.

Yeah.

You know,

exactly.

But as a teacher, you have to figure it out a lot of, 9 times outta 10, it's just a figure it out kind of job. So it's like, if I could do it there, I could do it anywhere.

Yeah, for sure. I could figure it out. And that's the attitude. That's the winning attitude right there. And so how do, like, from the people who you know, out of curiosity, that are teachers, how many of them do you think would actually make that change or actually have the courage to, to do it?

I would say about maybe a couple of them, you know, because I, I do know a couple of them that are really trying.

Yeah, you should send them this episode.

They're trying. It's just, yeah, it's like, it's the mindset is really everything. And I've kind of been talking to them about that too. They need that little push, you know. It's like, you can have what I have, what I'm going to get to. I'm just like you. I'm no different. I— the only thing different is that, like, my ambition.

Yeah,

you know,

and the— yeah, and your willingness to take on new thoughts even if you didn't believe them at first, right? Like, sure, yeah, I don't— didn't know where to start. But I think you said something to me in one of our earlier conversations about I just decided, like, that's just what I'm doing. I was like, the concept of deciding is like, it's very different for people. Like, I don't think they really understand it, but like, you decided and now you've proven that your decision, like, it was what you were going after and you focused on that and you did it. I think people, when they're not thinking in that form, it's like they just leave room for staying comfortable, staying in what they're doing, even if it's not what they really want.

Yeah.

So what do you think would have happened if you had stayed in teaching? If you were still there, what do you think your life would be like?

I think about it all the time. I mean, you know, I could barely afford to live. And even now, I think I left teaching making $47,000, and that's only because Florida decided we're going to start paying new teachers $47,000. And I was on year 9 and I wasn't even making that much. So they pushed me up. So here I am, my 9th year of teaching, making the same as a first-year teacher. And it was just like, you know, and even that, it's just not livable. I had 2 jobs at one point. I had 3, you know, you have to as a teacher in order to survive. And I was like, this is just not sustainable. I mean, my mental health was like terrible and I would come home, I'd be miserable. I'm exhausted all the time, like to my core. And I was like, I've got to make a change.

Mm-hmm.

But I think when you're getting, you know, when you're a professional, I mean, Like that, and you're getting paid very little, just enough to survive. It's very scary to think about making a switch. You're holding on to that, you know, that financial, yeah, kind of stability a little bit. So you're, it's scary.

Yeah. So how did you manage that? Getting through that scariness? What was your thought process?

It was terrifying, but I, I just tried to know that like, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna figure it out. You know, I don't really have help from anyone. It was just like, I can do this. I know I can. And, you know, when things got scary, I just, I did what I had to do. I would go out and try to find little jobs, a lot of little jobs, and connect with people and see like, hey, can I help you with a website? Or, you know, picking up little jobs here and there, contracting, reaching out to my contacts and asking like, is there anything that you have available? Mm-hmm. that I can do in the meantime. But it was scary and it did get a little bit scary for me. You know, it wasn't always financially stable and, but I knew it was around the corner. I knew I was going to be able to do it. I knew it was coming. And

what would you say about the person you were and the person that you've become and are becoming now? How are they different in the way that they think?

Well, I know, I remember when I was a teacher and people would tell me all the time, like, Lizzie, you know, you You're more than this. Not that this isn't great because teaching is great, but I just, you are more. And I didn't really believe it. I mean, I would say, oh yeah, you know, but I guess I didn't really truly believe it. But now I do. I do believe that. And I feel like I've opened this door and I'm ready to just go all in and see how far I can go because I think I can go far. So

yeah. Well, I mean, you've already come so far. Yeah. Um, so how long did it totally total take the transition? Just curious, like. From teaching till your first part-time or your first job in UX?

Well, that part didn't really take me actually too long because I had made the choice at the beginning of my final year of teaching that this is going to be my final year. So like the summer before I said, okay, like I got to figure something else out. I literally Google searched, what is the highest paying design job? I found UX. I was like, okay, I could do that. Let me look into it. So I saw, you know, there's like a bootcamp that I could take and I didn't really know anything about it, but I was just like, okay, let me do that. I'm going to take this course. I'm going to, I took out another student loan, just like believing in myself that I could do it. There was no other option. I'm going to do this.

It's incredible. You were a teacher, you did a bootcamp, and then you ended up transitioning and now you're making an overall compensation of 6 figures with like—

Yeah. And that, it was about 2 years. It took me about two years in total with. I mean, you know, I had all these different contracts and stuff in the meantime until I got this full-time job. But yeah, it was just deciding I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do it, and I did. And yeah, when I finished teaching, I had already had like a job kind of well. It was risky. It was like with this really small startup, and it was like we'll hire you on as an intern, but we're gonna try to secure funding. And I said, well, I need it by August because that's when I would have gone back to. school, and I'm gonna be out of money, you know.

And

luckily, like, it just, it worked out. She did end up getting funding, and I was able to, you know, be paid. And that kind of, that's where it all started. And then from there, it was just keeping myself afloat until, and gaining as much experience as possible, being open to any and all kinds of different experience, not just UX. And it sort of led me here.

How do you think your energy played a part in it? Because I think that's been big for you, like your energy and your vibe and how you show up. How would you describe that and how you've gone through all this to get where you are? How would you describe the role of your energy?

I think because my mental health was so bad leaving teaching, you know, and it was hard, but I think I always had this hope. And so it was like it started to make me a little more positive. And I think that this positive energy, this I can do it attitude, this mantra of she can, she will, she must has pushed me. You know, I really think that that's made all the difference, honestly. Yeah, is my energy and my mental, my mindset.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it has something to do with like attracting opportunities, the right ones to you, and also like your aligned action and how you like Went and asked people. Like in the last podcast episode, you talked about how you thought none of your teacher friends would know anything, but then somebody was able to point you in the direction of the job you ended up getting. And like, so the combination of like showing up with this attitude of like, I can, I will, I must, and having that aligned action and then having some sort of trust in it working out because it had to. I think that's like the formula for that I have adopted also for big goals. So I think you can't go wrong with that. What would you say the necessary skills are for somebody who wants to do what you did, mental or tactical? What would you say they are?

I would say it's a lot of critical thinking, strategic thinking, opening yourself up to thinking on a little bit of a deeper level to get to these sort of jobs that pay a little higher. And I think that for me, and especially Teachers in general just are problem solvers because you have to be. I mean, you think on the fly, things can change at any minute, and you have to like restructure, redirect, and you just do it all the time. It becomes natural. You don't even know that you're doing it. It's just like, this is my job, this is what I do, like this is what everyone does. But I think that, that more than anything has really helped me, this figure it out sort of, of skill.

And reminding yourself in the job search, that's also what you need to Adopt.

Yeah, there's been a lot of things that have been thrown at me that at first I get a little nervous, like, I've never done that before, I don't know if I know. And then it's like, no, I know, I'll figure it out. And I always do. And then I proved it to myself time and time again. Like, remember when you were asked to do this project and you've never done it before, but you figured it out? You could do it again. You can do it again. You can do it again. And that's all of it is.

It's just figuring out the next thing. Yeah. And you're— and by doing that every time, you're building capacity and building a stronger trust in yourself to figure out Bigger things, harder things, more challenging things to the point where you built this rock solid confidence where you're like, I can handle whatever comes my way. Amazing. Yeah. And so tell us about the results that you've created now. Tell us a little bit about your new job and whatever you want to share about what you're most excited about.

Yeah. So this job is actually, it's a company for art teachers, which is so funny because I was an art teacher for so long. And you know what kind of, it kind of came to me one day because I'm like looking, you know, browsing jobs and where could I work? What value could I bring somewhere? And, you know, I have such an extensive background in teaching art and I thought about this curriculum that I used to use in my classroom and this website, The Art of Ed. And I was like, ah, I wonder like what jobs do they have there? Is there something that I could do there? Like, what is it? So I, you know, researched it, looked it up, and I actually applied to them a year ago and got to the final round of interviews. They ended up restructuring and didn't hire anyone, but I made really good connections with the people that I interviewed with, with the panel interview. The, the vibes were great, the energy was high, and I feel like I really connected with everyone, especially the hiring manager. So I connected with her on LinkedIn and she actually like gave me her phone number and, you know, just kind of tried to keep up with her throughout the year. Mm-hmm. So then after a year goes by, like I still wanted to work with them, but I, yeah, I saw the job posting, so I reached out to her to say, hey, I'm putting in my application. That's

kind of how everything opened up. So, so you did so many things right here. I just want to go back and, and just like ask about them. So you'd interviewed there, you didn't get the job, but you— sounds like you turned that into an opportunity. Like you set that up for a future opportunity in itself. What was your attitude about that, about like getting rejected back then? And then what led you to be like, okay, well, I can still connect with these people. I still had to like— tell me about your attitude there because I think that's really important for people. You basically turned a no into a yes a year later.

Yeah, you know, it's really hard to do at first. It's like, I have to swallow my pride a little bit and know that, like, it's hard to not take things like that personal, like a rejection, you know. But it was like, but, you know, these people were great, and I really feel like they did really like me and wanted me to be there. So I just, you know, I'm gonna thank them for their time and try to make a connection because I'm just that kind of person anyway. I like making connections with people and you just never know down the line. And it's not even really about like, how can I use you? It's just more about like, you know, maybe sometime we can catch up. You can help me. I can help you in some way. And yeah, it ended up coming back around.

Yeah, for sure. And then they already knew you. They're already familiar with you. Did you interview with any of the same people?

No, I didn't. It was a different team, but we did like talk about them too. And he said that was like one of the big reasons why he pulled my resume. He saw that like I had mentioned like, oh, I know this person and that person and met them before. And yeah.

So the familiarity really did help to get you to, to stand out in that next round because I know they probably received a ton of applications, right? Yeah. Like,

well, and another thing I think that really was big is finding an opportunity that aligns with me. So like, this is something that I'm like so familiar with. So I feel like edtech is a really, maybe a good option for teachers because you're pretty familiar, you've got a strong background. So the knowledge that I bring to this company is invaluable because, I mean, I was an art teacher for so long. There's things that I know that maybe other people who hadn't been an art teacher for so long, or maybe never were, who work for this company, you know, like—

Yeah. And that's such a beautiful crossover, like serendipitous, like, oh, this is exactly why you're supposed to be here. This is exactly why you made this shift to this place. And I, yeah, I've I've had a lot of other clients do that too, where they want to do like a big change, but there's a little bit of a crossover somewhere where they— where their skills are just seen as like a lot more valuable. But I love what you said about edtech. I didn't actually— I wasn't even familiar with that term, but like, yes, there's so many edtech companies that like will understand because you are now going to be communicating with people in the school system, right? So you're going to have a lot more buy-in and a lot more like familiarity already with that, with those people.

Yeah, it's a good place to kind of, kind of start. I mean, I've already started, you know, I have started. I do— I've been in tech and I've been working remotely for a couple years now, but it's a good place to like really start flying. And I can bring all that background knowledge with me. It's something that even though I left teaching and maybe teaching wasn't for me, I'm still passionate about art education. I mean, I went into it for a reason, so now it just—

Mm-hmm.

I get to bring that forward.

Yeah.

In a new way.

Yeah. That's so exciting. For the next 3 years, what is your like vision? Where do you see yourself? Do you have goals? I know that we're gonna be working on those together in the mastermind, but do you have anything in mind that, you know, just for other people to hear like where your thought process is now?

Yeah. You know, I got this one and I'm already thinking about my next step and where am I gonna go from here? And I'd really like to. Just learn as much as possible about customer success and see where the opportunity to grow is there. And just kind of, I'm going to just let it kind of open up to me what comes next. You know, I have some thoughts. I would eventually like, maybe not in 3 years, but I don't know, maybe so, like open my own company, run my own software company, learn how it works and do something like that would be really cool. But I don't know.

And then you could hire all the teachers.

Yeah, I'll hire them all.

I was just gonna say, not only are you now an example of what's possible, but you are in potential position to help them, to share your belief and your energy and your knowledge with them. So like, by you upleveling to this point, by you making the money that you deserve to make, by you doing this, you are now like benefiting everybody around you.

Yes.

So it's all a win-win, and I couldn't be more excited to share it with everybody. All right. Well, thank you so much. That was all I had. So I'm really looking forward to getting this episode out and thank you so much for being here again.

Of course, Natalie.

Bye-bye. Hey, have you left me a review yet? If not, leaving me one now comes with an awesome bonus perk. I'm gonna give you access to my $97 course. It's titled 8 Reasons Why You Get Interviews But No Job Offers. This course is normally $97. But when you leave me a review as a thank you, I will give you access to it for free. And it's helped many professionals like you land their premium job offers and make more money just by simply going through this 4-day training that I did. I received so much feedback on so many of the results just from this $97 training, and I'd love to gift you that for free. So all you have to do is leave me a review on your favorite podcast platform, preferably iTunes. ITunes, screenshot the review, email it to me. The details are in the show notes of the episode, and I can't wait to read your reviews and send you access to that course. Thank you so much.