Ep #245 - What The Hiring Manager Thinks About You

Hello and welcome to the Get a Six Figure Job You Love and Thrive podcast. This is Natalie Fisher. This is episode 245, What the Hiring Manager Thinks About You. So stay tuned. Hey there, I'm Natalie Fisher. I'm a 6-figure business builder, a mom of a 2-year-old, the recoverer of a 10-year narcissistic relationship, and now in a super healthy one. And most of all, I'm a human who's figuring this out with you. This podcast is about how to use your mind to thrive in your career and create the subconscious breakthroughs that you need to get there. The subconscious blocks that you don't even know you have to achieving your highest levels of earning and your best zone of genius moments and days in the flow. That is my goal for you. Let's dive into the episode. And before we dive into today's episode, I want to remind you that I'm the coach who is always going to point you back in the direction of your own wisdom. And so before we get started, I want to remind you, listen Listen to your own wisdom first. This means listen to yourself first and me second, and anyone else for that matter. Take what resonates and throw away what doesn't unapologetically. I won't be mad. I won't be offended. In fact, I will be proud of you for doing so because I know from a lot of personal experience that anything is only as effective as the amount of resonance that it has within your uniquely built brain. And something is only going to work if it feels right to you and if you believe in it, or if you want to do the work to believe in it. And that's what I'm here to help you do. Your inner wisdom is infinitely more valuable than mine when it comes to getting your outcomes and for what you are here to do on this planet. So I'm here to help you steer that wisdom in the most powerful way possible. I'm so happy you're here. I'm so glad you're here, part of this. I'm so glad we're here on the planet at the same time. Let's dive into today's episode. I am so excited. I have so many podcast episodes coming up for you. Many of them are success interviews with clients, and I might just sit here all day and record podcasts because I had a flurry of things I wanted to share with you. But today, the one that came up really clearly was this epiphany I had for my clients. And then I saw this pattern really clearly of how over the years of coaching, this is a main thing. And I'm like, I can't believe I've never talked about it before. So what the hiring manager thinks about you, or what any one particular person thinks about you for that matter, is like what you think they think about you is basically what you think about yourself. Because it had to come from somewhere, right? Because we don't know what they think about us. We made it up. So that's the problem, essentially, we make that up. So for example, you make up the fact that they're going to think you're inexperienced, or they're going to think you have— that your career gap is going to be a problem, or they are going to think, you know, or what if they think, right? Fill in the blank, whatever it is for you. What if they think you're too introverted? Or what if they think you're not skilled enough at this? Or what if they think you don't have enough experience? Or what if they think, what if they think, what if they think, right? And whatever goes after that is what you think about yourself on some level deep, right? 'Cause we don't have any evidence of knowing what they think or what they could think. And in many cases, you haven't even met them, so you can't even have any clue what they would think, right? I had this one example that came to mind. One of my clients, she had been in Cuba or another country where she moved with her husband or something, and she ended up taking a job for her husband's family's company, but she was in quite a high-up position and she had done a really amazing job in that organization. It just happened to be her husband's family's organization. And she was really worried about what people would think about that arrangement. So when she came back to the US and she was now looking for work as a chief of staff in the US, she was like, oh, but this doesn't count. They're gonna think that I was just hired hired because I was, you know, my husband's wife, not because I was skilled or any good at this, this is not going to be something I want to talk about. And so I challenged her on that and I said, but how do you know that they're going to think that? And she's like, well, I can't know 100% for sure that they're going to think that, but I mean, that makes sense because I would think that. And it's like nepotism and people just don't like that. And it just, she thinks it undermines her or undervalues her thinking that, you know, it was a family thing. And so I challenged her and I said, but we don't know that. And then we got really present to what the truth was for her as far as the fact that she got that job. What, like, it wasn't just because she was part of the family, it was because she also had the skills and she was also gonna be adding a lot of value there. And she also did a great job and she had some great results to show and prove for it. And so she came back to owning those results. And that's one of the key things that I always talk about. One of my key philosophies is you have to understand and own and acknowledge your own value on a deeper level than most people know how to do. And then other people will start to become impressed by it. The right people, right? And so anyway, so we worked through that. We had a few sessions on, we coached on that. It was very precise. I'm really good at just looking at what the problem is and really going in there with laser-focused precision to figure out what, the concern could be. Because I mean, if she took that off her resume, she didn't talk about it at all, then she's doing a disservice to the people who are going to hire her, right? Because she's not giving them the full picture, she's not giving them the full information. So she decided, okay, I will leave it on, I will talk about it, and I will own it. Okay, so she took my advice and she's like, I'm gonna be open about what that person could think. I don't know what they could think, I have no idea, I'm just making it up. So if I own it, you know, the chances of the person thinking positively about it go way up because she thinks positively about it, etc. It's how it works. So anyways, she had an interview, she talked about it, and you know what the person's response was? The hiring manager's response when he heard about this, he said, wow, you did all this and you were working for family? He said, he's like, it is even more challenging to work with family because you have to handle not only the work, but then all the other dynamics that are present within that situation. And he was like, I'm so impressed that you were able to accomplish all this and do all this while working in a family organization. And he was even more impressed by it. And imagining that she was like predicting what he was gonna think before she even met him or before she even knew, right? And so with that, she was like, Okay. Because she gave herself the validation first. She was like, okay, I'm gonna change my thinking on this. I'm gonna decide, I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna be proud of it. I'm gonna own my results here. And then I'm gonna talk about it and we're gonna just give the person the opportunity to have an opinion or to have a response, right? And then what she saw reflected back to her was he was impressed too. And he even added another point that he was impressed by that she hadn't even thought about. And then she started thinking, oh yeah, you know what? You're right. It was more challenging because of all these reasons. And I am even more of a badass because I did handle it. So there's just one example of the roadblock, the problem that you could run into if you start thinking things for people ahead of time. Right? So one of my most popular videos on YouTube is how to be confident at work. And I talk about a client who was really nervous about asking questions at work and asking for help because she was afraid that if she did that, they were going to think she was stupid. Right? And one of the key moments in that video, I think, is where I say, if you think that they think that you're stupid, Then you show up in a in that way where you don't ask questions, you avoid, you hide. You don't actually get the work done. You don't get the information that you need, and then the result is that you end up showing them that you're stupid because you didn't answer the questions, or it was dumb. She didn't use the word stupid; she used the word dumb. She's like, "They're gonna think I'm dumb," and you end up acting dumb. Because you don't do that stuff that you need to get the information. So then the, the, the result is that the likelihood of them thinking you're dumb goes way up, right? So it's such a reflection, like as within, so without. It's so true, right? Like you're a mirror for what you get back, right? So if you think you're dumb, like whatever it is you think about yourself, you're gonna project that onto somebody else and then the likelihood of them thinking that is gonna be greatly increased. 'Cause you have power about what people think about you. Okay? So I'll give you another example of how this becomes truthful. So I had to do my first public speaking, in-person public speaking a while ago. I was invited to do a talk at this marketing conference here locally. And I was thinking, I was careful 'cause I'm like, okay, I know what I think about myself becomes real, right? I know that whatever I think, I'm gonna put out there and it's gonna happen. It's gonna be real. So I decided very intentionally on my thoughts. I said, I have good information to share. I have a lot of experience. I have a lot of data. My main thought was I have a lot of value to share with people and people are gonna have at least one really good takeaway from this presentation. And so that made me feel confident and it didn't mean I wasn't nervous. I was still like having to take my deep breaths. I was still, you know, my body was still feeling the nerves and I was sitting there waiting to go up and I was like, okay, this is normal. You know, use all your own tools. This is normal. So I'm sitting there. sitting there, I'm like breathing deeply, but kind of excited, but kind of like nervous. But my main core thought was, I have value to add here. I'm valuable. And I decided ahead of time like what the audience was gonna think of me. Basically, I was thinking they're gonna find this valuable. They're gonna have at least one takeaway because thinking those thoughts intentionally was making that increased, right? And then I was the second person to speak at the conference and there was the guy who was before me and he was so funny. He was making them, the audience, Laugh left, right, and center. And then I thought to myself, this is the thought I had. I was like, "I'm not funny," and I was like, "Oh no, I'm not funny." So then I was like, "Okay, I don't want that thought. That doesn't feel good." So I decided to say, "I'll probably think of something funny, and I won't even know what it is, and then the audience will laugh at least once." That was what I decided to change my thought to. This is what happens when your brain is like really skilled at self-coaching, and it does it really, really fast. This happened within the matter of two minutes, or because I was sitting there watching his presentation. Which was like, I don't know, 20 minutes long. And so I had to have this all, all ready before I went onto the stage in front of like 200 people. So anyway, I decided to— my intentional thought was, I'm going to say something funny, but I'm just not going to know what it is. And that's exactly what happened. All my thoughts became true, right? Right in the moment. It was so cool to see. So I'm like, I'm just going to say something funny. I don't know what it's going to be. So So now I can tell you what I said that was funny. So the thing I said that was funny was I dropped out of college. That's my— one of the stories that I tell is I went to college because my dad said, you either go to college or you get a job. And while I didn't want to go to college, I also didn't at the time know how to get a job that was going to fully support me to move out. So I said, okay, I'll go to college. And so I ended up dropping out because I got a job from a student there who I helped out, and he worked for a big company and he ended up getting me an interview. But anyway, I dropped out of the college. The funny thing was the room we were in, the location we were at, happened to be the college that I dropped out of. So I stated that because that was part of my presentation. I was telling them how I dropped out of college and how I got that job, and now how I help people get really high-paying jobs and, you know, how my career progressed. And so I said, The very college that we are in right now is the one that I dropped out of. So that's kind of a full circle moment for me. And everybody laughed. That was when I heard the collective audience laugh. And then my brain said, check, see, I told you you were going to say something funny. And I didn't know that was going to be funny or well received. I had no idea. And it just kind of came out because that's what I told myself would happen. And after the presentation, There was a little networking thing, and but there was like this networking bingo thing we were playing, and we had to go find somebody who had done something on the bingo card and then mark it off. And I had so many people coming up to me, and because they knew about me now because I just presented, so they were coming up to me saying, "Oh, I know that you go on LinkedIn every day," and that was one of the boxes they had to check. Or they were like, "I know that you have a podcast," so they they were like, "I'm gonna check you off for this one," and then I would have a conversation with them, and and then I would have people coming up saying, "Oh." This was the thing that I took away from that, or this was the thing I couldn't stop thinking about that you said. And so then I started seeing that come true, right? Like people are actually having the takeaways that I planned for them to have, right? So, and it all started with my thoughts, right? And so I wanted to share with you this because this is something I coach on so often is people believing ahead of time what people are gonna think. And so if I had gone in there thinking, 'cause I could have had the choice to go in there thinking, oh, I haven't spoken publicly, I'm such an amateur? How is this like, they're probably not gonna get anything interesting from this. Like these other presenters are so much more impressive. They have so much more to say and they, they have so much more experience. Like, what am I even doing here? Like, like I don't even know. I could have let myself go down that path, right? But I didn't. I just solidly decided I have value to offer. I have a lot of experience, a lot of data points, a lot of things to share, and they're gonna take value from this. And they're gonna have at least one takeaway. And that's exactly what happened. But I could have gone down the other path, and then like, imagine what that other path would've created, right? It would've created me showing up nervously, me not making jokes, me not even trying to make jokes, me like— it would've— I would've shown up differently and I would've had a completely different result, right? And I could have even had better thoughts and had a better result, right? I'm happy with the result I had, but There's always room to change. And what I want to show you is I'm just a human. I'm not special whatsoever. I didn't even finish college, right? I've been super imperfect my whole life. Like, I was trying to think of, figure out, like, who am I? What's my personal brand? And I'm like, the first thing that came to mind was messy. I'm like, I don't know if that's what I want to project, but I'm like, imperfect work has gotten me where I am, right? Like, my first YouTube videos are crap. You know, so it's like I'm just someone who kept trying, who figured out these tools, who started using them, who used them again and again and again, decided to commit and see how they were going to work for me, and just keep getting up and doing that over and over. And you are no different. You are no different from me. In fact, you're probably a lot smarter than me. You probably have a lot more than me to show, and you have the same human brain functionalities that I have. Right? So it's not complicated. It's just a matter of knowing differently, right? So I learned these, like, I started to learn the life coaching tools that I know in 2018 was when I first discovered a podcast that taught me what I, the Life Coach School one. And after that, my life, it took a couple years, but then I changed everything in my life. I changed my relationship. I changed How I was showing up at work. I changed everything, and from that point was when, like if I look at it, like I zoom out. I'm like, wow! I did a lot in that in that time, like from 2018 to to now. I'm like insane, right? Like I did so many things, and if you know my story, you know a lot of things about me. But when you start to learn these tools, master them, use them, like commit to them, you can do so much more, so much faster with your life. Right? So if you are concerned about what somebody is thinking about you, catch yourself. That's the first step is becoming aware. Okay, am I in their brain again? Am I making up things they might be thinking again? Am I like, especially if it's a hiring manager, a recruiter, or just like hiring managers in general, we do this a lot. We're like, okay, all the hiring managers are going to think that I don't have enough experience and that's just going to be it. Every single one in the whole world. Which is ridiculous because they can't all think the same thing. It's like when we catch ourselves doing things like that, thinking like, what are you actually going to think that they're going to think? You can change that, right? So the first step would be by saying, I have absolutely no idea what they're going to think. I can't be 100% sure of that, right? And this was actually something I learned from my dating coach, She was really good at bringing me back to this because I would often be like, "Oh well, he's gonna think this. He's gonna think this." And she would just bring me back to: "We don't know. We don't know. We don't know." Yeah, we don't know. Maybe, but you can't know that. And so she just she brought me back to that so many times that eventually I was like, "Okay, I'm not gonna make assumptions anymore about what people think," and that's changing my life, right? It's like no, you're either gonna. Decide powerfully what you think first, then you're going to project what you want to project. Like you want to project that confidence. I talked, I made a video about career gaps recently and I was talking about how you project that career gap is defined in what you think about it. Right. And if you like, this is where people get confused. They'll think, oh no, no, but I don't think it's a problem. I think they're going to think it's a problem. I'm like, no, no, no, but you do still think it's a problem. Otherwise you wouldn't even think that they think it's a problem. It has to come from somewhere because in our mind, when we are imagining someone else's reaction, it's all us. It all comes from different parts of us. So there's a part of you that still thinks that someone's going to react negatively to it, right? And by the time this podcast comes out, that video should be out. So check it out. It's a video on career gaps on my YouTube channel. It's really good. So when you're projecting what other people are going to think of you, and it's negative, then you increase the chances of them thinking that thing. And so you might say, okay, but what if they really do think it even though I don't? And so that's when I say, well, there are still people who are going to think whatever they're going to think, right? Like there, there are still people who are going to be very rigid. So let me give you an example. Let's say you're like, okay, so I went in there, I owned my career gap. I like to use the example of my client Carol, who took 2 years off to raise her kids because she was really struggling with that career gap. She really felt, had a lot of thoughts to process around it. And anyway, she— after she did that, she was able to get her job and she's doing really well now. But she was really having trouble processing that. So let's say she owned that and then she went to go talk about it. And let's say she had cleaned up her side of the street completely. She completely owned it. She's like, yeah, I went, I raised my kids for 2 years. It was an amazing experience. And now I'm ready to go back to work. And these are the things I want to tackle and these are the ways I can help you. And let's just say she did everything that I told her to do. She reframed Framed her thinking she was feeling amazing and she went to go talk to someone about it and they still looked at her and said, hmm, I don't know. I mean, taking 2 years off to raise your kids, I mean, that was pretty irresponsible, don't you think? Like, if somebody were to have that response, even after you owned everything and you were happy with your decision and stuff like that, then the answer is that. that says more about that person. That's simply that person's problem. That's on them, right? And they're just wrong. And we can let people be wrong. So this is an example that, uh, one of my, uh, mentors used, um, that I heard about recently. She said, imagine you graduate high school and you have the best college application essay in the world. Like, it's the absolute best. And this was her words, not mine. Uh, it's Haley Hoffman Smith. She is the one who used this, and I listened to her podcast. So if you want to check her out, she's awesome. But anyways, she said, imagine you have the best college application ever in the whole world. Imagine you had a letter of recommendation from the Dalai Lama and from Taylor Swift. Imagine you have a 5.0 GPA You have an Olympic gold medal. You have been the president of every single initiative that your high school had. You, like, literally, there's nothing wrong with your application. Like, it's the best application that any school could ever hope to receive. Okay, let's just say that's true. And then you get a rejection, or the school comes back and says, I don't know. I mean, really? Like, they would be like, You mean you didn't get a recommendation from the president? Oh, maybe that's wrong. Bad example. Bad example for where we are right now in the world. But let's say they, they were expecting something even more, right? Something even more ridiculous. Like maybe they were like, well, you mean God herself didn't write you a recommendation? I don't know, right? Like, like, what are you gonna then think? You're gonna be like, um, Okay, obviously there's been a mistake. You're— there's a misunderstanding. Or seriously, this is not good enough? Like, and then you would just be like, okay, well, that's fine. That's not meant to be. Like, you wouldn't think it's something wrong with you, right? That's my point. So when you truly end up owning, when you truly learn to own like what you have and the validity of what you have and the value of what you have and everything that you have is enough for you, and you know that, and you own that, and you exude that energy of, you know, I have what I have is amazing. Then when people come back and don't agree with you, you don't take it very seriously or very personally. You just think to yourself, oh, okay, well, either that was a mistake, it wasn't meant to be right now. Like, truly, there was a good reason why I'm not supposed to have this. And like all those platitudes of rejection is redirection. And you know, those, you truly feel those as true right away. You're like, okay, this is happening for me. Like this is not a big deal. Um, when you really truly own your value, right? Like when you don't get a result you want, but you know that it's inevitable for you, you don't take that personally. You don't take that so seriously. You're just like, okay, well, that wasn't the way. This wasn't the person, right? But you don't make it mean that that person's right. You don't make it mean that their opinion is now more important than yours, right? So when you start thinking about what other people might be thinking about you, here's what I want you to do. I want you to be aware of how you are interpreting that. Like, be aware that that's you, that's your thought. So if you're like, oh, they're going to think this, they're going to think I'm immature, they're going to think I'm inexperienced, they're going to think I'm too assertive, they're going to think I talk too much, they're going to think this, they're going to think that, recognize that that is a part of you that thinks that. And that part of you is the one that you need to talk to and tell that part of you why it's okay. Right? And this is where coaching really comes in handy because you might not have the thought accessible to change it in your head right now. And this is where some support's really, really helpful. But if you could say it's possible they might not think that, and then even come up with 7 other things that they could think, right? That's one another trick I had. It's like, come up with 7 other possible things that they could think, and they all have to be positive things. Right? You can also do the trick of, well, what if a friend that you see in a completely different light and you think they're amazing and you think, you know, that their career gap couldn't possibly be a problem because look at how much they've accomplished and look at how great they are, then decide what you would think about them and what you believe hiring managers would think about them. Right? And that could give you a new perspective, right? It's like, it's about finding all the different ways to give yourself a new perspective on how Other people might or might not see you, right? Because remember, what you think about yourself and what you think other people think about you is just another version of a part of you that thinks that same thing about yourself. If you go out into the world believing those things, thinking those things about yourself, the chances of other people thinking them skyrockets. In fact, it almost becomes certain that they do think that about you. And yes, there's always the exceptions. Some people will think that— people can think whatever they want, no matter what. But then you get to discern, okay, that's obviously not the right person. That's obviously not the right opportunity. That obviously doesn't align with what I want. But you get to be certain of that because you decided what you were going to think about yourself. And you were so solid in that, so solid in how you decided to see yourself. That it truly doesn't matter if somebody doesn't see that back, because you know the truth, and your truth is more important than their truth, right? Ultimately, you're the one who lives with you. They are just like a temporary actor or actress in your story. They're like a guest star. They come and go. So we can't allow their thinking. To take over and then become like you, because that's not— you're the one who lives in your life every day, not them, right? So it doesn't matter. So let's recap. The problem is people often jump to conclusions about what other people may or may not think about them. Oftentimes these conclusions are negative. And the problem with this is we don't know If they are even true, and 90% of the time they're not true. The problem when we go out there thinking these things is that we increase the chances of people thinking this about us, and then we get the result of them thinking that about us, and we get that reflected back, and our brain says, see, I told you. Whether this be a good or a bad thing, So like with my speaking engagement, I decided I was going to tell myself, I will say something funny. I won't know what it's going to be, but I will say something funny. And then I did. And then my brain said, see, I told you. If I had said to myself, you're going to bomb it, you're going to freeze, you're going to lose your words, and you're going to totally screw this up. If I had held that thought, then I would have probably done that a few times and my brain would have gone, see, I told you, you were going to screw it up. Right? But the same principle works both for negative and both for positive, right? And if I had gone into that auditorium and people had not taken value and they hadn't liked what I wanted, what I shared, then my thought wouldn't have been like, oh, I'm terrible. I was wrong. I don't have any value. My thought would have been, this wasn't the right room for me. This wasn't the right audience. Obviously, they weren't interested in what I was sharing. I wouldn't say, oh, that's a problem with me, right? So that's where you have to stand firm, stand your ground on what you decide to believe about yourself and all the parts of you that are in your head, because we have multiple parts of ourselves that think that someone else might be thinking this or think that someone else might be thinking this. And this all comes from our childhood growing up, like what our parents told us or what our elders taught us or what our teachers or people of authority told us, right? And those are all made up things that we now believe, and they all come from our past experiences. So what we need to do is we need to define what we want to think and believe about ourselves. And sometimes it's not so easy to just be like, I'm brand new, I'm going to decide to think this about myself, right? So that's why in my program I teach something called bridge thoughts, where you can have a thought where you are moving towards it. So you could say it's possible, I have no idea what they're thinking. That might be a bridge thought. And if that makes you feel a little bit lighter, like, okay, I might not know. I think it would feel lighter to go from, they're definitely not going to hire me because I don't have the experience, to thinking, I have no idea what they're actually looking for. I might be the perfect candidate. I just don't know yet. Right? It might feel lighter. And you're not saying I am, you're saying it's possible that I could be wrong. And I love being wrong personally, because it just means that I have a place to grow, an opportunity to learn something. Like, it's— I think coaching shows you you're wrong all the time. And it's great because sometimes you really want to be wrong because that's why you're not getting where you want to go, right? So I could tell you right now, you're probably wrong about what most people are thinking about you, unless you think everyone thinks you're amazing. All right. So what you want to do is you want to get very intentional about what you think about yourself, and you want to clean up all those other parts of you that think that other people think this or other people think that or why. And then And you wanna practice that new way of walking through the world. And you wanna know that your belief about yourself, it doesn't actually count as a full belief unless it stands up to tests. And of course it's gonna be tested, right? So you are gonna have somebody who comes back and doesn't agree with you or doesn't see your value. And that is where your belief has to stand firm. It has to, right? It has to be the one that wins. You have to be the stronger energy. It's your life. It's your decision. It's your choice. Not theirs. They're just like a guest star, fleeting, fleeting, come in, come out. Didn't never see them again. Right? Especially if they're like, if they're like the wrong person, they're not going to hire you. Like, who cares? They're just gone. Right? You had an interaction with them. It was probably short. Done. Right? And that's a beautiful thing because we don't have to actually, we don't have to have these people in our lives. Right? And not in this scenario anyway. If you do have to have someone in your life that is unpleasant, then there's other tools to deal with that. But anyways, that is essentially today's episode. What hiring managers think about you is largely up to you, especially if they haven't met you yet. And especially if you're thinking that they might be thinking something negative about you or something that would make them not want to hire you, you have more power than you think about what other people think. So You instruct people how to think about you, and your belief about yourself influences their belief about you more than you could ever imagine. And that's what I'll leave you with. Thank you so much for listening. Check out my YouTube channel if you want answers to specific questions. You can leave a comment on one of the videos and submit a question to me if you'd like. I've been using the podcast for more of a I get to just chat with you, kind of maybe update you on my life, tell you about my, like, the thoughts that are coming up, the themes that are coming up in the coaching calls with my clients, such and such. But the videos are more to the point. There's a specific thing I'm talking about. There's a specific thing I wanna share so that I'm just kind of using the podcast a little bit differently. So go check out my YouTube channel if you need some specific guidance for some specific questions, or you have a specific question you wanna ask. All right. Thank you so much for listening. I will talk to you next week. Hey there, thanks for listening. If you're new here, I'm Natalie Fisher. And if you wanna take this work even deeper than the podcast where I help you apply it and I help you dig into your own personal situation, you have 2 ways to do that. The first is in my signature program, The Six Figure Curriculum, where we go through everything you need and I personally help you week To land that 6-figure premium role. If you want to take the work on the podcast deeper, the links for those are in the show notes below. To go right away, you can go to www.nataliefisher.ca/start.