EP 274: She was waiting for round two. They sent an offer instead.

Hey there, I'm Natalie Fisher. I'm a six-figure business builder, a mom of a two-year-old, the recoverer of a ten-year narcissistic relationship, and now in a super healthy one. And most of all, I'm a human who's figuring this out with you. This podcast is about how to use your mind to thrive in your career and create the subconscious breakthroughs that you need to get there. The subconscious blocks that you don't even know you have to achieving your highest levels of earning and your best. zone of genius moments and days in the flow. That is my goal for you. Let's dive into the episode. And before we dive into today's episode, I want to remind you that I'm the coach who is always going to point you back in the direction of your own wisdom. And so before we get started, I want to remind you, listen to your own wisdom first. This means listen to yourself first and me second and anyone else for that matter. Take what resonates and throw away what doesn't unapologetically. I won't be mad. I won't be offended. In fact, I will be proud of you for doing so, because I know from a lot of personal experience that anything is only as effective as the amount of resonance that it has within your uniquely built brain. And something is only going to work if it feels right to you and if you believe in it, or if you want to do the work to believe in it. And that's what I'm here to help you do. Your inner wisdom is infinitely more valuable than mine when it comes to getting your outcomes and for what you are here to do on this planet. So I'm here to help you steer that wisdom in the most powerful way possible. I'm so happy you're here. I'm so glad you're here, part of this. I'm so glad we're here on the planet at the same time. Let's dive into today's episode. We're going to get into the good, bad, the ugly, everything that Colleen has been through since she came to me and our journey working together. Colleen, introduce yourself. Tell us a bit about what you do and anything you want to share to kick us off.

Awesome. Thanks, Natalie. I can't believe I'm here doing this. This is so exciting. I am a— currently I'm a UX designer, and I basically transitioned careers. I was a teacher for many years, and I knew I got to this point where I was like, this isn't for me, but what do I do next? So I found myself on YouTube like I tend to, and I eventually landed on UX design. And so that led me Signing up for this bootcamp program that had a money-back guarantee saying if you went through the program and you applied to jobs every single week for 6 months and you didn't get anything, you would get your money back. I'm like, okay, let's do it.

Sounds like a good deal.

I graduated from the bootcamp program and then I was applying for jobs. My first interview came in January and oh man. But thinking back to what I was thinking, the way I was feeling in that very first interview was just mountains away from how I feel about it now. I found you, Natalie, because I was rejected from that first interview and I found your YouTube channel, which led me to your podcast. Your podcast on rejection, that was life-changing for me after that. Interview, and then I managed to sales my way into a second interview with that company, although it was for a different department. I managed to continue interviewing with that same company. I landed myself 3 more interviews with that company, but it ultimately ended in rejection. When I was rejected after those 4 interviews with the same exact company, that was like a new low for me. I didn't know what to do with myself. I was toying with that idea of signing up for the program right around then. I told myself that if I didn't get it, that I would sign up. And I had reached out to you on LinkedIn and I, I think I had asked you something about that. I ended up getting the no and signing up.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up cuz I feel like a lot of people have that same thought. They're like, I'm waiting to get a yes. I'm not sure if I will. The program is so much more than just your getting the job. Tell us a little bit about how you've evolved and how you've facilitated that evolvement of who you were when you joined and now. That's more than just you getting the job, which we will talk about your celebration, of course, at the end. Tell us a little bit more about the evolvement of you as a human.

I know it's come a long way because I hear your voice when I'm in other situations, or this isn't even a work scenario. I'm like, Natalie would tell me this. I know also because I tell other people the same things that you tell me or that I've heard you say that I now know are 100% true and are completely helpful in getting me to be successful ultimately and to be hired. And when I think about what it is besides getting a job, it has to do with confidence. I've definitely noticed even in some of my mentors, the way that they speak, even people who did get hired, I would hear peers of mine. Say things like, oh, I don't know why they hired me. I can't believe they hired me. And I found it shocking because once someone hands you the thing that you supposedly want, right? But these people I knew who had what they wanted or thought they had what they wanted, and they were still having these thoughts and these, saying these things and feeling really down. And I was surprised and I was thinking, by the time I get hired, like, I don't feel that way or I don't talk that way because I wanna be way more confident. And I know that I am now.

It's great that you brought that to the conversation because so many people think that once I get the thing, then I'll be happy. Once I get the job, once I get the pay, once I get to my goal, then I'll be happy. And I noticed something really clear there. It's not about that because there are so many people that you saw that had that already and were still not happy, but their next level of problems. Well, now how am I going to do it? How did I even get it? Was it a mistake? imposter syndrome kicks in. And it's because they haven't managed that root problem of their thoughts and their feelings aligning. And then that confidence and sense of certainty that comes from themselves, which is something that I know you worked on really hard because you implemented the work, especially in the beginning with the intentional self-confidence. And that's where you set the foundation for being able to handle whatever happens with your success, or if you get rejected, because it's really about your thoughts and feelings that create. How you feel, not the external circumstances.

I saw so many people on your website commenting, they're giving the rating on the program and they're commenting, I was at this level of job, or I had this executive level position and I was still dealing with these things. And I was thinking like, wow, that's pretty profound, right? Because here I am trying to break into this industry and get a junior level design job, right? I'm thinking, wow, when these people are in charge, or I hear people on our calls who talk about negotiating million dollar deals, I'm like, I can't. Wrap my mind around it, but yet in the background they're still having these issues. And I think, wow, like—

Yeah. And it's totally preventable. You can feel happy in any situation. You can feel confident and certain in any situation. It's not about the external circumstance. And that's really what needs to be addressed. And that's what isn't really being addressed in other programs. We're always talking about changing the circumstance and taking the action. Instead of focusing on the thought and the feeling.

And that's exactly why I knew that it didn't matter what field I was interested in or what I was going to do. Humans are humans, jobs are jobs. My thought was, she might not have even heard of this field I'm trying to do, but does that even matter?

Good point. It did happen a lot where people were like, well, have you ever coached someone in data science? Or have you ever coached a lawyer? Or And I would say I haven't, but you know your profession, you know that. I help you get the wisdom out that you need to kick ass at your profession.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That is a great point. It does not matter, people. If you're thinking like it's not for you because you have some weird job somewhere, I'm gonna say right now, like, that's not true.

It's definitely the mindset. So what do you think your biggest fear was that you had to overcome in saying yes and joining us inside the program?

Yeah, I, whoa, good question.

Maybe you didn't have that many fears.

I think for me it was, I wanted to believe that I was smart enough to do it on my own. I am that person that I've got a master's degree. I'm like, I'm going into this program, doing this bootcamp thing on my own. Like, I'm super smart. I can figure it out. I spent hours on YouTube, on these blogs, everywhere you could look for free. And then it clicked. my mind, I'm still not where I wanna be. I could probably learn something from this woman and a lifetime membership. I totally think that's worth it. I can figure it out.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you said that you're super smart. I love people who say that about themselves cuz that just makes it so much easier for you to come in and be like, I'm really smart. I can make that work. Now with the right tools, I can make it work even faster and I can be even more efficient. I think that's one of the biggest things too. A lot of people intellectually are super smart, but they're still not where they wanna be. And I think that's the key distinction. If you're super smart and you know you're not where you wanna be, that's when you know that you need support. An outside perspective from somebody who resonates with you, someone who can give you something different than what you have already been going around in your own head with.

Exactly. So that's what it was for me. I'm really glad that I decided to jump in and jump in I did.

So what do you think is, was worth most of your, most of the time? So the program has a lot of different components. It's got the modules, it's got the weekly live coaching calls, it's got the community. Where do you think you spent most of your time? How do you think you made it work the best for you?

That shifted. So in the beginning it was definitely in the videos. It soon very quickly shifted to The live coaching calls because that's where I was showing up and that's where you were doing such a good job of holding up this mirror of what I was saying to you. And then able to, from a video is great, but I didn't really need those videos until I was in that stage. I needed the interview videos, but I wasn't there yet. I heard the confidence module in the beginning, but just hearing it wasn't enough. I had to come to the calls and I had to. talk it through with you. I've definitely watched that first call replay of myself talking with you and what you said to me. I was like, wow, I can't believe I didn't see it at the time. Now I can see it from a mile away. I know exactly what she's talking about. In the moment I was nodding my head. Yeah, I guess. And it took a while for it to click.

Yeah. And that's very normal.

And I thought it came outta left field, but you're like, no, it's right on your face. Like I can see it. I'm like, Oh, I thought I was hiding that so well, but clearly I wasn't.

I think of coaching as like, if you're sitting in a jar and you're trying to read the label from the inside and it's upside down and backwards and blurry, you can't see it. But if I'm on the outside of the jar, I can see the label really clearly and then I can just read it to you. And then you can be like, oh, okay. 'Cause an outside perspective is helpful. If you've been in your own head with the same stuff for a long time, that outside perspective is what people need to just shift. So let's move to talking about your job offer and what you think the key was that ended up sealing the deal for that.

Thinking back since I've joined, I thought back to, there were really 4 main turning points for me. One of those was definitely figuring out what I was doing wrong in my interviews. As I mentioned, I had over 4 interviews in the beginning. Looking back, it was really that I had really solid materials. Portfolio resume all that was getting me really good results. So in those four interviews, looking back at what I did wrong was huge. Giving myself the feedback that I didn't get from them. Then she called me and I assumed I didn't get it because I assumed if I had gotten it, someone else would have bothered to reach. By the time she called me and told me the news, I asked. what it was, she really didn't have any feedback for me because I had invested all this time and energy and I felt like I'd killed it and, and then it just fell flat. You released those 8 videos.

8 reasons why you don't get the job.

The 8 reasons why. And yes, exactly. And then I was able to identify which of the reasons, and again, they were different each time. That, that result was different from the first interview. And the energy I had in that interview was way different. And the thing I identified as what I, quote, did wrong in the first interview was different from what I think I did wrong in the fourth. Having that knowledge alone, it gave me so much control. I was so out of control of everything that was happening. I had a list of the things I wanted to say. I was about, oh, I have these stories. I want to make sure I tell them these teaching stories. And this was an educational company. They were hiring for designers. I was like, I have to make sure I talk about this. I had 2 goals. I said I wanted to land 2 interviews. I wrote that down. There was a Facebook post in a group I belong to. It's like a meetup group locally. There was a post where someone was basically looking, it was a small business. He's the CEO. He's looking for senior designers. And he replied. The interview. Was great. It was really chill. I didn't feel like he was drilling me in any way. He asked me really basic questions. By the end, you know, I remember using the word fun a lot.

Yeah.

Oh, this is fun. Yeah. Or he would say something and I'm like, oh, that sounds like fun. I remember saying that word a lot. And I remember that at the very end he asked me if I had any questions for him, and of course I busted out. The ultimate recommendation question you give in the program. Should I say it?

Yeah, go ahead and share it.

So you told us to ask for the person who's hired in this role, what would this person need to do in order to blow your mind? And I asked it and it noticeably made him smile. We were on the camera call, but I saw him smile and I laughed. He sat back and he thought about it for a minute, and then he basically told me his answer was I want my customers to be blown away. I want to under-promise and over-deliver these changes I want to implement. I was like, great, I'm totally on board with that. And I could just tell he really cared about his customers and was a quality person in that sense.

I do think that it's a question that people do not hear very often, and it really shows that you're thinking about them and you want to see if you align, because the answer to that question is obviously going to tell you a lot, which it did. And then you were able to get on the same page about a key value that you both had. Which was putting the customers first and having that under-promise, over-deliver, which is not something that all companies are focused on.

No. So I was like, yeah, I'm totally on board with that. Even though I was lost in terms of the business itself and what they do and, you know, who their clients are, that part was totally foreign to me. But of course I've had to figure it out these past few weeks and learn it. It's no big deal.

Exactly. You're not expected to know all of it before you go in.

I'm being pretty gracious with myself and asking questions when I need and taking the approach of, I want more understanding, asking for what would help me do my job better. None of that was in my mind before this program.

Oh yeah. It's just your next step of growth and your next step of evolution. One of the strengths you have in the program is evaluating yourself effectively. One of the things that you came to the calls and said that you had done was, I watched myself back, or I took note of what I said, you were able to pinpoint those reasons yourself.

Oh man.

It's good.

Um,

yeah. So yeah, talk about your mindset and what got you to make those shifts so quickly.

Yeah, real quick, I wanted to say that interview we did lasted a little over time. I guess in his mind we were only gonna talk for 45 minutes or so. We were talking for like an hour. He said, he was like, oh gosh, we're like over time. I remember asking him, are you gonna do another round or what is, you know? And he said, yeah, I think so. It was like 3 days later I got an email and they were asking me what my rates would be. And I was confused cuz I was like waiting for a second interview, but instead that came. And then I went to your program cuz I was like, I don't know what to say. I remember there was a module talking about this. I responded with what you said. Then I Set up a meeting and then it was like, okay, if it comes to this, like we can talk about it. And then the next day there was an email with an offer. I was a little confusing to be honest, cuz I was ready for round 2, like cool, then if they wanna bring me back, right? But yeah, that's how it ended up happening.

But is this your first UX/UI paid contract since you transitioned into the field? Amazing.

It is. I know it's so weird to call myself that now. I'm

like, it's happening. It's happening. Yeah. And then, and yeah, this is the first of many opportunities that you'll get to work In this field and to uplevel and to learn and do more. It's such a big thing. You, you made this big switch, education to UX/UI tech. Huge.

I had signed up for coaching and other things. I was like, back when I was a yoga instructor. And so I had a mentor and I knew the value of mentorship. I knew if I signed up for this program, I knew I would be coming every week. I knew I would be emailing you. I would be doing that in order to really get The value and the benefit. The value you get out of it is so much more than what you end up investing in the beginning. This being a contract position I have right now, I know I'm gonna have to go out and find another position eventually. I know I've done it and I know I could get more coaching.

This position is the foundation for the next better position with everything that you're doing here. What would you say to people who are not in the program? They don't really know how it works. How would you share what it's like?

Even if you are a person who doesn't want to be in the spotlight, you're gonna reap many benefits. Just watching the replays of the calls was a big one for me because I dug into the vault and I dug into when you first started doing the call and watching these random strangers talk about their problems. And I would put that on in the background on the days that I didn't feel like 100% in mentally. I would listen.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm thinking about all those The coaching calls. And I'm thinking, wow, there was a lot of calls there. And it's also, it's really cool because you get to see some of those people who now did podcast interviews with me. They shared about their success. You get to go back and see they did this, they had these shifts and seeing someone else's journey. It also cements in, that is going to be me. That is going to happen for me.

That was a big part of it. Believing it was going to work. Trusting it was going to work. And those people, those success stories, all the people on your website that had great things to say about you. Those were the things in the end that made me just really sit back and say, they did it. They got what they wanted. That means there's gotta be a way that I can have the same thing.

Especially cuz you're super smart.

Mm-hmm.

I had one of my clients say, I started thinking, why not me? Why not me? Then it started becoming like, yeah, of course me. Why not? And then there was no reason why not. And then it just starts. You took what you needed. When someone joins, they don't have to listen to all the past calls. They don't have to watch all the videos. They can come and get one shift from a coaching call. Watch other people get coached, get what they needed, or they can raise their hand and get coached themselves. What do you think is next for you? What are you looking forward to? What are you most excited about moving forward?

Oh man, it's just cool that I know I have something really solid. There's so much going on around us right now and people losing jobs left and right and economy that, economy that, and I feel extremely Solid in what we have.

And your ability to get something else, cuz it's true. And I'm glad you brought that up. There's a lot of scary stuff in the news. While those things are happening,

I've seen both, I've heard both. And right now I am honestly just too busy to pay any attention to my— For sure. At all. I am pretty darn focused on what needs to happen at my job and how to be the best person that they hired and how I can Like he said, blow those clients out of the water in the end. It feels really—

and with that mentality, you will always be in demand because no matter where we're at economically, people are still going to need value.

Yeah.

So being in your new role, how is life different?

I'm in this room now that we essentially, we turned into an office.

Okay. So you got an official, designated an official office space.

Exactly. We found this great desk at Costco that like fit perfectly.

You're getting paid now, so you're, you're bringing in income.

I am. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Now instead of listening to your podcast, I'm listening to these books or these things that relate to my work. I always like to listen to something. It keeps me motivated. I always still listen to this podcast when you put it out there, but I'm not going through the archives like I was. It's really different and it's, it's just really cool. I feel like it happened. So quickly, but also it felt like forever at the same time.

Yeah, it does that, doesn't it? The thing is, you're thinking all day anyway. You could be taking a physical break from doing actions or sending physical messages, but you're never taking a break from thinking. You might as well be thinking in a way that's gonna make what you want to happen. And that is something the program supports everybody in, is helping them align their thinking From the beginning so that then when they go take those actions, the actions are gonna be effective. You get to skip a lot of the emotional suffering that a lot of people are going through.

Yeah.

And you're supported through it, so you're not alone.

So

that's a big part. It's not a problem that it's there sometimes either, because we are humans and that's okay.

It got to the point where like my husband can only say so many things to me. I'm emotional or I'm feeling really upset.

Yeah. So actually that's a really good question I have for you, cuz you sound like you're really social. You've got lots of friends, you've got a great husband. What would be the difference between advice your friends or husband could give you versus being in this program and taking in what is offered in the program?

Oh man, I'm all about smaller bites. Circles of quality. So I feel like a lot of what you get to is the why. A lot of what people will tell you is the what. Applying for jobs sucks. Everything sucks. It's really hard. Or yeah, you got rejected. Like, I'm so sorry. That's the what.

Mm-hmm.

But the why part, I remember in your podcast when you were talking about being hard on ourselves, that was a big one for me. Because you were talking about how to talk to yourself and why we're hard on ourselves, why we put pressure on ourselves, things like that. No one, no friend, no family member, regardless of how much they loved me or what their intentions were, no one could identify that for me. That was the why. And so that for me, yeah, that for me was like where the gold was lying in the value of the program.

I love that. Yeah. Why are you getting those results? Yeah. I. worked with a lot of other coaches in the past that would tell me like, do this, do this. The what? Like, send out more applications. Oh, you got rejected? Oh, that's fine. Just get over it. Send out more. Do more. I did that. I was one of those people who would do like 100 things and get more frustrated because it wasn't working. And I feel like that's what led me to this deep journey on, I need to figure out why. Why? Then I could help other people discovering that for them, and that's what could set them free and in getting their own results. Thanks.

Yeah.

I'm glad I asked you that.

Yeah, exactly what it is. And I remember saying that to my husband one day because I heard some interview podcast you did. And, and yeah, you talked about why we're hard on ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

And of course he's telling me like, well, don't beat yourself up.

Yeah.

Well, I am.

Yeah. It's like, just don't do it. Just don't do it. You could just, if you could just stop doing it, then we would all just stop doing it. Thank you so much for sharing. All that you have shared, and congratulations. And I'm super excited to see what's going to be next because the possibilities really are unlimited. All right, so we're gonna sign off. Thank you so much for listening.