424: Fix Aging Cells With Urolithin A: Mitochondrial Health For Beginners with Jennifer Scheinman

One of the other things they do is they play a role in our steroid hormone production. So that includes testosterone, estrogen. Right. So it makes perfect sense that as the mitochondria are starting to decline as we have less estrogen, all of this is making up for a pretty ugly, you know, storm of fatigue, muscle, brain, all the things that we start to feel as we get older.

Hi, I want to welcome you to Midlife Conversations. I'm Natalie Jill, your host, and I help midlife women redefine and rebrand aging. On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated information and conversations around aging that are relevant to us now and breaking it all down simply with actionable steps that you can implement to level up your life, because your best years are yet to come. I also regularly interview some of the most inspiring people living in their best midlife years. On this show, I cover topics about our health, hormones, navigating weight, blood sugars, our mood, focus changes, even our relationships, career changes, beauty and more.

Mitochondria and longevity. Before you just click off and go, what does that word mean? I haven't heard that since high school or junior high. You're gonna want to lean in today because mitochondria and the function around that and how this helps how we age well has been a huge rabbit hole I've been going down, and I can't wait for this conversation today because this is something you want to lean in and learn. We're going to be talking about mitochondria function. We're going to be talking about urolithin A and how we can change how we age today. I can't wait for this conversation because I've got Jennifer Scheinman on who is the perfect person to be talking with us today. Number one, she's in mid midlife like us. She's approaching 50, approaching 50, not quite there yet, but she is right smack in midlife and all the things. She also is the combination of not only a registered dietitian, but she is also also, she has a master's degree in integrative and functional nutrition. This is a rare combination. And she also is the senior manager of nutrition affairs at Timeline. So she is the per person to be chatting with us today. Thank you so much for being here today, Jennifer.

Thank you so much for having me. And I love, love, love chatting sort of all things mitochondria and especially like, as I'm, as you mentioned, like, I'm going through sort of midlife and perimenopause and just this, this Nutrient, which we're going to talk about. Urolithin A, I think, just can play such a substantial role, not only in how we kind of go through this phase in our life, but then how we're setting ourselves up so that the second half of our life is just as even more powerful than half of our life. So.

So I want to back up a minute. When you were in school and you were learning about nutrition, or the first time you learned about mitochondria, like, what was your thoughts with that? Do you even remember the first time learning about it?

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, most people, I probably learned about it, I think, in high school biology. And I was always a bit of, like, a biology nerd, so I kind of thought it was cool, but I get that most people did not think it was cool.

But it was a very. Almost, like, simplistic thing. Right. Like, where we kind of had to memorize, like, the Krebs cycle and how that, like, might even remember. Right. And even when I went through nutrition, you know, getting my undergraduate degree in nutrition and then getting my master's, it was really all about, like, energy output. And you had to memorize these pathways and, like, promptly forget.

Yes.

What the mitochondria was. Right. Like, I joke a lot that people have post traumatic stress disorder from. I still do biology. Yeah. And so you get this, like, cringe when you hear mitochondria, and I hope we can change that even a little bit today without making people feel like they have to open up their biology textbooks and understand these complex pathways. That's not really critically important.

I'm going to go really basic with you because I'm going to assume a lot of my listeners don't remember or understand what it is. And the reason I'm going to do this and go really basic here is in preparing for this conversation and preparing for what I've been trying to learn for myself, my own knowledge around mitochondria and how that changes as we age and the importance of it. I went on a search, listening to lots of podcasts and going down rabbit holes, and I couldn't find anyone that explained this to me simply. So this is really important to me to. To get this across. I think most people tune this part out. So we're going to go basic here. So for those of you that are advanced science nerds, you may not like this, but for those of you that really want to understand, we're going to dive in. Jennifer, help us. Tell us what mitochondria actually is. And if you can explain it as basic as you can. Please help us.

Yeah, Well, I think it's almost at this point like a ref. You think? Mitochondria, powerhouse of the cell. Right. And the reason for that is in their most basic function, they are what create the energy our cells need to thrive. So I like to picture them almost as like these little mini factories that live inside our cells. And our cells actually will have potentially thousands of them depending on which type of cell and what they do. What these factory does is it starts with raw materials, and that's actually the food that we eat, and it combines that with the air that we breathe, and it goes through this complex assembly line with, you know, different ingredients and different key workers on there. And out at the other end comes what's called ATP. I don't think anyone needs to remember that. But that's this cellular energy that our cells will use. Whether it's a brain cell, whether it's a muscle cell, whether it's an immune cell, they're all using that same energetic currency that our mitochondria produce.

Okay, so when we hear about mitochondria declining as we age, is that or what does that actually mean?

Yeah, absolutely. So just like any other factory, through wear and tear, it becomes damaged. And so our mitochondria do become damaged with age. They become dysfunctional, which literally just means that they're not producing energy the way that they once did when they were younger, better, healthier, newer mitochondria.

So what gets that thing confusing in midlife is we hear everything affects our energy. Right? Like, we literally hear everything. So you're like, oh, you're in perimenopause or you're in menopause. That affects your energy. You're getting older, it affects your energy. It's like it's this constant thing. Would you say that what you're talking about is kind of eaten in the baseline before all of that is this is one caused by the other. Help us with that.

Yeah. So, I mean, our bodies are very, very complex. So it's not so simple as, like, A plus B equals C, multiple things that are happening inside our bodies. But yes, absolutely. Mitochondrial decline is part of that, as are our changing hormones as we start to go through perimenopause. So, you know, it makes sense, right? If you have less energy coming out of your cells because your mitochondria are not working as they once did, you're going to feel less energetic, and that's going to impact, you know, that's one of the one of the first things that I think we can feel in terms of, like, as our mitochondria start to decline, we start to feel that energy drop.

Now, there is.

This is. This is sort of probably a more complex conversation for a later date, but there is definitely also a relationship between the mitochondria and our estrogen levels. I literally just learned this. Like, maybe.

Tell us. I want to hear about this so.

That, you know, first of all, there's estrogen receptors on our mitochondria, and our mitochondria play a critical role. So we talked about that. They're powerhouse of the cell. They do several other important things, which, again, deeper dive into mitochondria. But one of the other things they do is they play a role in our steroid hormone production. So that includes testosterone, estrogen. Right. So it makes perfect sense that as the mitochondria are starting to decline as we have less estrogen, all of this is making up for a pretty ugly, you know, storm of fatigue, muscle, brain, all the things that we start to feel as we get older.

Okay, I want to go a lot deeper there, but before I do, I want to back up a little bit. And genetically, is there a difference with people? Like, do we all start kind of with the same mitochondrial function or is this something. We're also born with different makeups here? How does that start?

You know, that's a great question. I would have to imagine we are all unique individuals and we all have our own unique genetic makeup. So I would suspect that there is some genetic difference between people. Also your environment. You know, mitochondria can be susceptible to damage just through, like, poor diet, environmental toxins, things like Lyme disease, mold toxicity. All of those things are going to impact your mitochondria. So we aren't all necessarily, like, on the same playing field, depending on sort of what's happening in our lives. And I would absolutely bet, although I don't know this for a fact, but I would bet that genetics certainly would play a role in.

Okay.

In how our mitochondria work.

Yeah. So the reason I'm asking that, and I just want to. I'm going to be transparent with everyone here, is I was wondering why some things that are designed to help with mitochondria function were not feeling good in me. So, for example, I would jump to something like nad, which is supposed. That's what it's supposed to do. And anytime I would try nad, nad, it would make me extremely anxious, like, in any form of nad. And I couldn't figure that out. But like, if I would sit in front of a red light or have CoQ10 or like, that would not make me feel that. So. So in DNA testing I saw, or I was told how that was interpreted is that I don't have the DNA for good mitochondria to begin with. So I was trying to link a connection there. I don't know if there is or isn't, but I'm wondering, and we're going to go back down to the middle ground where we're talking about. But I'm wondering if that is a big reason people feel different on different supplements or different things based on that.

Yeah, I mean, I would. Absolutely. I personally don't feel great on NAD either, but I think, yeah, I mean, absolutely. How we metabolize these substances, how they impact our mitochondria. Another cool mitochondria little factoid is that mitochondria actually have their own DNA, which is different than the DNA that's in the nucleus of our cell. And another cool shout out to women. It comes down pretty much exclusively from our mom. So there is your own DNA inside each mitochondria. And so, yeah, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that we all are going to have our unique genetic code, which is what makes us each us.

No, how do we prevent. Can we prevent mitochondria decline and then also can we repair it? And what are the layers? Like, how do you start with that?

So you can slow it down. Right. Just like anything in aging, you can't necessarily stop it or reverse it. I know there are a lot of people in sort of the longevity community and the biohacking community that are saying, like, I'm stopping aging and. Right. I don't think the science is there yet, but there are things that we can do that absolutely can slow down what's happening inside our cells. So our bodies are so amazing, right? Like, we have these innate rejuvenating capabilities inside our body. So I don't know if your listeners are familiar with like, fasting at all. Right. Of course, this term autophagy, right. And that is this like, cellular recycling process that happens. Our mitochondria have their own special form of recycling. It's called mitophagy. Now, again, the mitochondria, as they start to get used and worn down, they send out this signal that says, hey, I'm breaking down. Our body can recognize that and do this recycling process. Unfortunately, that recycling process also starts to slow down as we get older. So we're starting to get this Buildup of dysfunctional mitochondria. We have this slowdown of the recycling process. But there are things that we can do to trigger that recycling process. Probably the two best, most accessible ones are exercise, which we should be doing for not just our mitochondria, for everything, and calorie restriction or fasting, which may or may not really be for everyone. But that is another way to help stimulate this recycling process. And we're thinking about just sort of like the foundational things. Exercise for sure. Probably one of the best things you can do for your mitochondria.

And now this is where it gets confusing after that. So yes, fasting, yes, exercise. And then it seems like everything out there now is talking about mitochondria. And I don't know if it's just because they've jumped on this, is it because that's so associated longevity. But it's very hard to. It's very confusing for people. So like we'll hear things like red light helps with that, Sauna helps with that. There's like no shortage of things that help with it. Right. Devices. And then we look at the supplement line. This is where it gets really confusing. And this is where I really leaned in on what with mitopurine urolithin A, because it's made a lot of sense to me. So I wanna, let's talk about kind of the stuff spectrum. Like what, let's start with. I want to talk specifically about food and supplements for a minute and like what happens with that in our body. So when you hear things like Coq 10 or even eating pomegranate seeds, is that the beginning stages of kind of helping with your. Sorry, helping with mitochondria.

So here's how I think about mitochondrial health, right. And how you can do different things to target mitochondrial health. I kind of throw it into three buckets, right? And again, let's picture that factory for a second. So if you need more cellular energy, you can build new factories, right? You have more factories, more energy. And that's the scientific term of that is biogenesis. You can make those factories run better or help like protect those factories, right? So like add more workers or better ingredients or you know, just keep the factory in tip top shape. Or the third way is when those factories start to break down because it doesn't matter like how perfect you take care of them, they're still going to break down. You can remove those damaged factories because you only have so much real estate to build new ones. Yeah, you can remove them and then use those Materials to recycle and create new factories. So when I'm thinking about the ways to target mitochondrial health, I'm actually putting them in those buckets. Okay, how to help? Right. So we talked about nad, for example. So I think one of the things that NAD is great for is for helping to build new mitochondria or even maybe protecting and make the mitochondria work a little bit better. Coq 10. Oh, do you want to ask?

No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah, so Coq 10, that's another example of something that is really like protective of the mitochondria and helps to shuttle along, you know, that assembly line of energy production.

So both Coq 10 and AAD on different levels would help build, build new. That's okay. Now where does the cleanup part come in?

Yeah, so that's really the unique place where there's really only in humans that's been proven three things that will do that. So I talked already about calorie restriction, fasting. I kind of lumped those into one exercise. And then the only external molecule that we have found, again proven in humans to do that recycling process is this molecule called urolithin A.

So that's really what makes it unique. And when I'm thinking about mitochondrial protection and how to make them function the best that they can, I want to clean out the junk drawer. Right. You want to get rid of that damaged mitochondria and then build newer ones and then protect the ones that you have. Right. So that to me is the foundational piece, something like urolithin A and then layering on some of these other things, like red light therapy, like, you know, Coq 10 NAD. If you tolerate that, I think they all can make a really beautiful mitochondria sort of support package. So what's the.

I want to make sure I'm fully understanding what is the main benefit of cleaning out before you're building new.

Well, you only have so much real estate, right. So if you are continuing to build this collection of dysfunctional mitochondria, they actually can start damaging other mitochondria. Yeah, like, I mean, think about like old again. I know I'm sort of beating a dead horse with this factory analogy, but this is how I like to think of things. You have a bunch of broken down factories, like gunking up the system and they're like, they're ugly to look at. They're, you know, or like think about taking out your trash. If you leave your trash there, it collects, it smells bad. Right. You need to get rid of that in order to have an environment that healthy mitochondria can thrive.

And I might be jumping the gun here and really connecting the dots in a. In a weird way. So just tell me if I'm wrong here, but I'm trying to.

Is this.

Why would this be kind of an oversimplified way of why some people don't like NAD or don't feel good on it when it's like you're almost building? Is it. Would it be because you're almost building too fast without cleaning out, or am I jumping to a conclusion there?

Oh, I follow your thought process. And to be honest, I don't really know.

I don't know if it's like. Because, yeah, like, I also, like, get like, rapid heartbeat and lightheaded when I take nad. I don't feel great on it. I don't know. To be honest, I haven't dug into it as much.

I mean, I'm certainly not a doctor or scientist here, but I'm just, just as I'm thinking and wondering, I'm wondering if there's something to do with that, because that would make sense. It's almost like if you're. You eat a bunch of garbage, then you try to put a healthy salad on top of it, your stomach doesn't know what to do with it all. It's like just, you know. So if you. If you have unhealthy mitochondria and you try to jump to some extreme biohacking thing, I would imagine that might be part of why that happens. I. Again, I don't know. It's just Natalie's hypothesis.

Yeah, I don't know. And I don't know if, like, science knows either. They might just. Because I don't know, it really doesn't mean that. But yeah, it's definitely an interesting thing to think about.

So what seems super interesting to me about urolithin A is it's again, a different thought process here. I like that you say it's cleaning out and it's helping to build new, but is it also taking things that we maybe couldn't get enough of from diet or anything and helping you convert faster? Is that help me understand that?

Yeah. So I think what you're asking, and if not, we'll ask again, but. So let's talk about what it actually urolithin A is and, like, where you would find it in nature. So, like, other nutrients that come, or it's different, I should say, than other nutrients that we get in food. Like Vitamin D, for example. Right. Or that's a bad example because you get that mostly from the sun. Vitamin C. Right. You eat vitamin C, your body absorbs it and utilizes it. Urolithiny is a little bit different. So to tie in back to the pomegranates, there are certain nutrients inside the pomegranate that we actually can't utilize ourselves, and our gut actually utilizes it for us. So the gut, we. You know, most people are very familiar with the critical importance of gut health, Right. But one of the things that is so cool about what happens inside our gut, right. We house these microbes, these little bacteria, and I like to joke that we sort of give them room and board, they get to live inside our gut, and they actually get to eat and digest things we can't digest. So fiber is a perfect example of that. But some polyphenols that are these types of plant compounds, for example, that are in pomegranates, we can actually digest those. Our gut microbiome will do that for us and they will pay us back with these. They're called postbiotics. So urolithin A is an example of that. So our gut is actually taking urolithin A, taking pomegranates, things that are in pomegranates, and converting it into urolithin A. For us, the problem is that most people don't have a healthy gut microbiome or we're not eating enough of those dietary precursors to get enough urolithin A, you know, So I would imagine, like hundreds of years ago, when we were eating, you know, a much more natural diet, and sure, like, we had much healthier guts. Like, we probably had tons of urolithin A in our blood system, bloodstream all the time. But we sort of, unfortunately, like, evolved away from that, and we don't have that nutrient in our gut. But when, to your point, like, does it make things in your body work better when your mitochondria are healthier, like, pretty much everything in your body.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

So when people hear about your lithium A, like, when I first heard about it, my automatic thought was, oh, I'll just have more pomegranate. But what you're saying is then you're. You're really banking on that. Your gut's, like, super healthy, and. And you're going to have enough of it and it's going to convert to this postbiotic. Because what is a postbiotic? People hear prebiotic or what is a postbiotic?

Yeah. So probiotic Those are the bacteria that live inside your gut prebiotic. Those are the fuel, basically, food for gut microbiome. So I'd mentioned fiber polyphenols. And then postbiotic is this sort of newer term, is basically what your gut microbiome is making that is beneficial to you. So it takes those prebiotics, it digests them and metabolize them, and then it pays us in these postbiotics. So examples like that many people don't even realize, like, some of your B vitamins and vitamin K, like, your gut helps produce that as well. You can get that obviously through your diet as well, but your gut can make it for you as well. And we're just learning. I think it's like Dr. Mark Hyman says, your gut is like a complete untapped pharmacy. Like, totally. We don't even know all these cool metabolites that our microbiome is producing that we're benefiting from.

It's fascinating how much. And for years, people just ignoring. Ignoring gut health, which is now kind of, I feel like what's happening with the mitochondria topic, like, that's the topic that we're all hearing about now.

And I constantly say, like, I think that mitochondrial health is the new gut health in the sense that, you know, 10 years ago, the science around the gut was like, it was there, but people weren't really talking about it or paying attention to it. And that's where we are. Like, mitochondrial health has been linked to almost like, so many diseases of aging, chronic conditions. The science is there. We're now learning about all these great tools that we have to support our mitochondria. But we need people like you, who have these amazing audiences to start educating. Like, hey, you don't have to be scared of the mitochondria. You don't need to tune out every time you hear that. You also don't need to be a nerd and know every detail, but you do need to be aware of the. What they're doing inside your body and how you can support them.

Well, I think what happens, honestly, like, we learn in school, you know, you learn when you're. When you're younger. It's not affecting you yet or that you know of, but as soon as you're actually aging and changing and seeing the changes in your body and how you're thinking and your focus and your energy and all that, then it gets really interesting and you're like, wait a minute. So then it's tying back to that. So that's where I think, because Midlife audience is such a. It's like the fastest growing audience, obviously, honestly. And then now that's why I think it's. This is coming up. And then the whole idea behind biohacking and longevity and all of that is where this gets important. Talk to me about, okay, so urolithin A. Why if your body's already converting to that, why do we take urolithin A?

Well, because most of our bodies are not so really only about. There's some studies have been done. Really only about 30 to 40% of the population even has the right gut microbiome to make your lithium A. Okay. And you know, there is. There are some ways it's not like for consumers to have, but there are some tests where we can test like, levels of urolithin A and like, we've had some of like, really like doctors that are known for like doing everything for gut health, right? Sure. They have tested whether they can produce urolipin A and like, they don't produce meaningful quantities of it despite doing all the things for gut health. So you can't really necessarily rely on your gut. And then even for those who can make it, you would have to drink a ton of like pomegranate juice, berries, nuts, every single day to have a concentration of urolithin in your blood. That's really gonna be a meaningful.

So having your tablespoon of pomegranate seeds is not gonna do that. And if I'm hearing you correctly, even taking any polyphenol, if I'm hearing correctly, would you would have to have the right gut environment to convert. Is that accurate?

Specifically for URL. There are definitely some other benefits of polyphenols of pomegranates. Like so.

But to make your elephant a you. Bingo. Okay, that makes sense. So when you bypass and you take. And by the way, one of the supplements I've added into my regimen is. Is mitre pure, which is urolith and A by timeline nutrient. And it's. That's what I sort of found is this middle ground as. Okay, I can't do the extreme. I've been doing the exercise and the red light and all that, but like, what's this middle ground? So I have been playing with taking this. And I know it's my understanding you do need to take it for 30 days, 60 days for it to really feel. Or is it something instant? It would start working.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. So in today's like Amazon prime world where people want things to work Tomorrow, like this is not, I don't think anything is, is really going to be that. So the clinical studies that have been done on mito pure specifically, which is this clinically validated brand of Urolithin A, the bare minimum, after four months, what we did was we did a muscle biopsy where we actually.

Which is painful.

Ye.

Yeah.

And that's really like the gold standard of how to measure mitochondrial function. So like, if any of your listeners are wondering, like, well, how do I know if my mitochondria are functioning, I want to get tested, which is not a great way to do that. So in clinical trials we do these painful muscle biopsies. We look at like genes of mitochondrial function. We look actually at mitochondrial function under like super high tech, like microscopes. And so we see it takes about four weeks for that process of, okay, the recycling to happen. Right. And then once you have these newer functioning mitochondria, it's going to take a little bit of time also for them to be shooting out more energy for your cells in order to you to actually translate that into a field.

So you shouldn't take, you're not going to take one, have this big energy burst. It's like you shouldn't, if done right, your body wouldn't even feel it and you just start. What would happen, you would start getting gradually stronger. Like what's kind of the sequence of what starts to happen?

Yeah. So everybody is different. I think what I'll share my personal experience and then what we hear very often. So I think the first thing I personally noticed was like, I don't really get sore at the gym anymore.

That would be amazing.

Yeah, so much that like I work out with a personal trainer twice a week and I don't really like pay attention like I do when I lift on my own. Obviously I know what weights I'm doing but like I don't always know. Like he just kind of like hands me stuff. I don't pay attention. And I had even said to him once, like, like, are you like putting. Giving me heavier weights? Like, I'm not sore anymore. Like, do we need to work harder? And he's like, no, like you're progressing amazingly. So that was the first thing. And then the second thing, like I had seen somebody that I hadn't seen in like, you know, maybe like, I don't know, four or five months. And they were just like, how are you feeling? Because I've been complaining a lot about like some fatigue issues lately. And I was like, you know, now that you Ask me that. I'm like. Like, I'm feeling really good. Like, so it's almost this, like, subtle type of energy where. I don't know. I think anyone who's in perimenopause will get this. Like, you feel like yourself again.

Yeah.

Like.

Crashing, burning, fatigue of like 3pm coming and, like, feeling like I need to take a nap. Like, I don't really get that anymore.

Yeah.

I might have a small dip in energy, but I get through my day. I work out after work. So I get through my day, I work out, I take the dog on a long walk, I cook dinner. Like, I do all the things without crashing and burning. So that was my experience. And so I think energy is one that we hear for sure.

The other thing, strength, and that's what our clinical studies have shown too, is. And this was at four months, so it takes some time. But we start to see significant improvements in muscle strength with 500 milligrams after four months. Why is that?

About the muscle strength? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around that one. It makes sense to me with creatine or working out harder, adding more protein. But help me with that one.

Yeah. Well, because the mitochondria are producing the energy for that muscle cell to perform. So that muscle cell has more cellular energy. Because you've now replaced those dysfunctional mitochondria, the muscle is going to be stronger.

Wow.

Yeah.

Which is huge to me because my biggest. If I were to give, like, one hack for, like, for aging well, like, the biggest hack for aging well is you have to add muscle and retain muscle like you have to. And if you don't, we start getting into. Not only our metabolism starts. We have issues, we have less muscle, we start having more pain. We also lose bone. So there's so many things there. So anytime there's an idea or something that's going to help with that strength component so we can live more, so we can do more. That's huge for me. So that's. Honestly, that's like the biggest thing I started leaning in on here is like, wait a minute. Because what you hear from midlife women so many times is either they didn't work out enough and now they're, like, trying to fight the time building it. Right. And it's harder. It starts feeling harder as we age, or they have more pain, injuries, recovery time, so it makes it harder to even do that there. So anything that's going to help with that strength is like, I'm leaning in for that.

Totally, totally.

With you on that.

You know, I think, like, one of my biggest regrets, like, is like, I didn't do enough strength training when I was younger. Like I was a cardio girl, like, stick me on the elliptical for like, you know, an hour at a time. And, and, and we now recognize, like, the critical importance for women specifically to have healthier muscles, to be strong, to have more muscle mass. And I'm with you. Anything that we can do outside obviously of like a high protein diet and strength training is totally gonna level up our game.

Is there anyone that should not take Urolithin A? Is there any, like, is this one of those things you wanna ask your doctor first or is this a pretty gentle supplement? Like, what are your thoughts there and how it, what. Is there anything that you shouldn't feel if you do it?

Yeah, I mean, the conservative person in me feels like everybody should talk to their doctor about every supplement before they take something. Right. But this is a really, really safe supplement. So. In clinical trials, there were no significant differences between placebo and the mitopure. You know, now that it's been on the market for almost five years with thousands and thousands and thousands of people, we don't really have any concerns with side effects interacting with like, other nutrients, interacting with other medications. So it's very, very safe for people to take, you know, so I think that's like, the first thing is that, is that like, I think of this as like a foundational piece, like a vitamin D and a multivitamin and an omega. Like, this is kind of like a foundational piece of health.

And do you just take them first thing in the morning? How do you personally take them?

So I, our studies all look at taking it first thing in the morning. You can take it with or without food, it doesn't matter. Your body will absorb it either way. When I wear my clinician hat though, like my dietitian hat, like, the best time of day to take it is when you're really going to remember to take it. So if, like everything at night. I love what you say. I love that.

Thank you for saying that. Because it gets confusing with so many different, so many different supplements and things that's like, like, take this an hour and a half away from food. Take this one 30 minutes.

I know, I know. Like, I'm actually going through a little bit of like a gut cleanse right now. And I'm like, there's something I'm supposed to always take, like eat. And I'm like, oh, I forgot again.

Like, no, I went down this path with peptides, I'm like, I, I don't, can't remember. Like this one's an lunch, this one's 30 minutes. But like it's so confusing.

This one, take it when it's convenient for you, but it's best to take it around the same time every day so that you have okay in your body. So even though it's giving your cells energy, it's not stimulating. So like even if you took it right before bed, you're not going to, it's not going to impact yourself.

Oh, that's good to know. Okay, got it. So, so if, if it's in your head to take it first thing in the morning or before you work out or whatever it is, that's when you take it, that's the best time.

But just be consistent. So like if you don't work out every day, like what's your trigger to remember to take it if you don't work out? Yeah, yeah.

Okay, Makes sense. Makes sense.

Okay.

What, what are some like, have you had some interesting benefits you weren't expecting that you noticed and you kind of linked back to this, you know, I.

Think just like, you know, as I said, just sort of this like general, just like feeling like myself again. And the studies that are coming out. So like if anybody here likes to like nerd out on scientific research and you went to like PubMed or Google Scholar and you put in your lithon a, you are going to see preclinical so like in animals and cell models, like studies looking at so many things like immune aging and brain aging and that's all going to be translated over the next couple of years into human studies. So I think there's just so much potential for this molecule outside of just like muscle. I think even one of the areas that we're looking at is reproductive aging. Right? Really? Yeah. Well, the number, the fastest aging organ of a woman's body is our ovaries. Lucky.

Oh my gosh. Can you imagine? That'd be wild if all of a sudden you can like delay menopause or you can.

Yeah, I mean that's like, you know, not based on any science. It's just like a girl chat. Like I. Right. Like we know that the later you go in through menopause, like that's, that's healthier and so it's sort of like my little like prayer that like God, wouldn't this be cool if this helps to keep my ovaries pumping out a little bit longer?

But even to help women who Might be wanting to start child, you know, start having children later in life. Right. This might be something that can help to support where the research is starting to go. It's, it's promising in preclinical data. I just can't say yet that like, that's for sure. What's going to happen in humans.

Is this why you kind of leaned into. Because, you know, you've got your own, you're, you don't need to be with a company, right. Like, you're, you have, you're a dietitian, you have your master's in nutrition. You're like, you're so on point with this stuff is. I'm assuming this is why you kind of leaned into that is because you saw this science and I don't.

You're absolutely right. So I actually like left my private practice. Like I was sort of balancing practice, private practice and doing like some consulting work for brands. And there's a couple reasons that I joined this. Like, number one, I think this nutrient is so powerful. I think mitochondria in general, they're like the next frontier in human health. I agree. I think getting that message out is just like, you know, like, it's kind of like where probiotics were like five years ago. Like, this is just such an opportunity to help people and timeline. Specifically, who are the makers of Mito Pure? They are like no other supplement brand I've ever been aware of and there's a few other ones I think that are like leveling up, but they did like 15 years of research on this.

I know, it's crazy.

Or there was even a product. So that's so rare.

I love that. It is rare.

Yeah. To see like published, peer reviewed, double blind placebo controlled trials, like in top tier medical journals, things like jama, things like Cell and Nature. You rarely if ever see that. And so I was like, this is something that's so different and such a cool opportunity for me to like join in and do so. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Like at this point in my career, there's a lot of things that I can do. And I think this is something that's just so exciting and so, so much potential to help people. That that's why I came on board.

No, obviously for midlife women, we're like really thinking about longevity and we're really thinking about how we're aging and we want our energy, we want the muscle, we all that. So it makes total sense for us. Does this also make sense for us to tell our kids or our like, who else should be. Should everybody be taking your lfna or do you think this is more for midlife or what's your thoughts around that?

Yeah, so I don't think like kids, kids need to be worrying about this yet, you know, and even like early 20s. I don't know if people really need to be worrying about it yet. I guess it also depends, like, if you have anything that's like really like Lyme or, you know, long Covid or something that might actually really damage your mitochondria. But for like the average healthy person, I think a great place to start thinking about it though is in your 30s, because that is when like I sort of joke about this, like the warranty runs out, right? Like all of a sudden, like you start feeling it, you feel your age and you start to get into your like early and mid-30s. So I think the thought process is if there's things that you could do earlier on, you're going to be in a better place or your 50s when you enter your 60s, when you enter your 70s.

Right.

That's why we as like midlife women are doing all the things because we want to age differently than maybe our parents aged. But I also think it's not too late. Like we've seen positive benefits in our clinical trials in older adults too. In fact, one study, our chief medical officer loves to tell this story, this woman. So the studies are blind and so we don't know who is taking what. And there was this like little like 90 year old lady and she was like a big time gardener and she would constantly, like, every time there was a follow up, she was like, I know I'm on the like mitopure and not the placebo because she's like, I feel awesome in the garden. I'm like being much more productive. And then, you know, lo and behold, she was on it. Right? That's so impactful.

That like, I love hearing that kind of studies.

Yeah, yeah. Like in your 90s, like you're getting a better quality of life. So I think this is something like I personally, like, I have my parents on it, right? Like mid to late 70s, like I want them to still be able to be as active as possible. Right. And to be as healthy as possible. So I think there's a really like, I think like the sweet spot of people who are getting interested in this is sort of like if you're not a biohacker, you're like a midlife person where you're just really starting to like feel the wear and tear. And you want to do all the things that you can to slow down the aging process. But I think it's a great thing for people who are older adults, too.

So another thing that's coming up from, again, Natalie's hypothesis, not anything I was told, but I'm thinking that we went through this hole in the last, like, 10 years of realizing there's this huge connection with blood sugar and dementia and Alzheimer's. Right. Like, if you have almost calling it the type 3 diabetes, right. You have too high blood sugar. And then we. We spent time with how that's all connected to the gut. But I'm wondering if this will be another huge thing in prevention of dementia and Alzheimer's. I mean, it would make sense to me because that's how you're keeping your brain engaged, right? I don't know.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's actually being actively studied right now, so.

Oh, that's good.

Mitochondrial dysfunction is highly linked to neurodegenerative diseases, things like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. And there's the Buck Institute of Aging is, like, probably, at least in the US if not the world, is, like, one of the top research institutions of aging and, like, the biology of how we age and many diseases of aging. And they are actively studying urolithin A. They've done some amazing preclinical trials and starting to look at it in, you know, in human levels, as well as what can it do for our brains to help keep our brains healthier as we age.

I have a lot more questions, but I gotta say, without even trying, you've, like, totally convinced me that I need to be taking this every single day. Like, what the heck? Like, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't. Like, that doesn't make any. It wouldn't make any sense not to. It's such, like, an insurance policy. Why would you not.

That's kind of how I feel about it is just like, you know.

Many people will actually notice the benefit. Like, they will feel it. But even for people who are like, I don't know if I'm feeling anything. Like, I personally, like, people tell me, like, they take magnesium and it, like, makes them sleep like a baby. Like, I don't feel anything when I take my magnesium, but I still take it because I know that I'm probably not getting enough in my diet. And that's how I think about urolith and a. Even if you don't feel it, it is still doing its magic inside.

Yeah, you've challenged me on that. Because I am that person that, like, I want to feel things. So like, anything that I take, anything I take, like, and I've talked about before, like, I. The minerals I use, like, I feel. So, so to me, I've sort of trained myself that I gotta feel it. But this is making a lot of sense to me that you don't necessarily have to. Maybe you even shouldn't. And then it's still gonna be an insurance and a benefit. That's amazing.

I mean, I think, I mean, obviously, like, you wanna feel something, right?

No, but I mean the right away thing. The right away thing. I'm talking about, like, the instant you wouldn't feel.

Yeah. I. I have had people tell me they feel things right away. I suspect that's placebo.

Yeah.

Which great. I mean, if you feel something, you feel something.

No, I'm thinking that's what happened to me. I told you, I told her as soon as I got it that as soon as I got my first bottle of Might Appear and I took it, I felt. But now I'm realizing what that was. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just call myself out here. I have a whole story around that. Nad gives me anxiety. Like, I've had this whole story. So when I took it, I was almost like, I'm gonna feel this one too. Right. So I initially thought that was connected, but the more I've taken it, that has not been the case. So I, I think that placebo thing is very real. Like, you think something's gonna affect you a certain way and it. Absolutely, you can feel that. But I hear what more I went down. I'm like, that's not what I'm. That's not what that was. And this is an insurance policy and I want to give this. I want to give this several months and notice the difference. So I think that's incredible. How are we. Here's some things I didn't ask you that I want to make sure I don't skip over. How are we hurting our mitochondria in everyday life? Like, take away. Like, if we're not taking your lithium a, we're not repairing.

Like, what.

What is contributing to the decline of it?

Yeah, I mean, the same things that are contributing to the decline of our overall health. So poor diet. Again, you think of the factories as like, they need quality raw materials to start. They need things that are. Can protect it, like antioxidants and all the vitamins and minerals that we get through food, not exercising or sleep. I mean, I forgot if I said this earlier, like, one of the other cool things that the mitochondria does is like they actually play a role in circadian rhythm. They can actually produce some melatonin. Right.

So amazing.

Smoking, environmental toxins, I mean, all the things that are just sort of like, prevalent in our. That are sort of unhealthy.

So there's the bad diet, the processed food, the sugars, the alcohol, the, the tobacco. All of that would help all of that.

Yeah.

Rapidly decline mitochondria, I would imagine.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

Yeah.

What we didn't talk about is mitochondria and skin health. Can we talk about that a little bit? Because I know that you. You even have like a topical supplement. And I want to understand more about that.

Yeah. So again, the. It all comes down to mitochondrial function. And, and other than our red blood cells, another little mitochondria factoid, every cell in our body, other than our red blood cells, requires mitochondria for energy. So when those mitochondria start to become dysfunctional, they're not producing energy the same way. It doesn't matter if it's your muscles or your brain like we were talking about, your skin as well is going to be dependent on healthy mitochondria. So what was discovered? And I believe the story went that, like, you know, when you asked about, like, surprising benefits of taking urolithin A. Yeah. People were reporting that their skin looked better.

And I'm looking at you like, your skin looks perfect.

Thank you. Thank you. So we started to study it. And while it's like a completely different mechanism and action, I think like your audience will relate to this, like vitamin C, for example. We have to eat it. It has an impact in our body. You apply it topically and you get a very localized, potent effect on the skin. And that's the same thing with mitopure. Right. Or your lithium A. You can eat it and it's going to have a systemic effect, but when you apply it to your skin, your skin cells are going to absorb it and it's going to be really potent and powerful in the skin. And so, so what we see is that when you have better mitochondrial function, all the genes that regulate collagen organization and production, they're all upregulated, so collagen. The other thing that I think is really cool about it is we did this study where we actually expose the skin to UV light. Right. So that's like the number one thing that ages our skin.

Who volunteered for that study? Not me.

Yeah, I know, I know. I would be like, no, thank you. And I think it was on, like, the back of the arm or like it wasn't on your face, but. And then we applied either just like a placebo cream or the urolithin A cream and all the, like, inflammation and the damage that happened from the sun exposure was resolved more quickly. Oh. So what happens is when you apply it topically, it, like, it attacks, like, the cellular reasons why our skin ages, which is the mitochondria, but also that external factor of why we age. This, you know, the sun damage. And I. And this is still, like, I wouldn't replace a sunblock with this. Like, I still use my totally. But, you know, when you think about, like, the other things that we use in our sort of skin care regimen, like retinol or. Or tretinoin even, or alpha hydroxy. Right. Like, like they're very irritating and you have to be super careful in the sun. Something that you can use that is not irritating and is actually going to help protect from the damaging effects of the sun.

So I don't personally use Retin A or the hydroquinone. I can never pronounce it that I don't because I saw what that directly did to liver numbers with me. So I'm sensitive to that stuff. And I don't. And what I was using on my face was I was using. I go through different regimens trying to figure this out. I was using a topical peptide, which I love, and I was using estriol cream. And I started getting brown spots from that. And I'm like, nope, because some people, if you're melasma. So like, soon as I correlated that, like, nope, not using astrial cream anymore. So I've now started using this and I had questions about that. Like, can you. Do you just use it right after you wash your face? Is there a specific order? Like, how do you want to best use it?

So we have three different products.

And okay, I have the serum right now.

That's the one I. Yep. So the serum is usually like what most people use because it plays nice with everything else. So if like you already have like a skin regimen that like, you love, but you just want to, like, integrate something to up level, I think serum is perfect for that. So all three of the products, though, have 1% Urolith and A. So that's the effective, like, powerhouse, no pun intended, powerhouse of the cell. But that's really like the powerhouse dosing is of this 1%. So the serum is like a lovely, like, lightweight, like Soaks in really easily. I think with like any of your skincare products. The way that that's best to use them. If you're using multiple serums is like the lightest, most like liquid, like water. Like you apply that first and you go up in thickness. So like I personally, I also use vitamin C and that's a water based. So I use my vitamin C first. Then I use my URL with an A cream and then a serum and then I use. I have used the URL of a day cream as well.

Makes sense. So that's kind of how you'll put your sun's block. If you do sun stuff and makeup over that. Yeah.

Or like if it's nighttime, obviously you put your night cream over that. So you know, so it really just depends what else you're using. But yes, you would apply it to. To CLE skin. I like to use the serum day and night. The thing about our products is we also integrated in there some other really important actives so it can replace a lot of things. So for example, there's some peptides in both the serum and in the day cream. So you don't necessarily need another peptide serum. There is niacinamide, which is really like a gold standard in terms of skincare health and some antioxidants in there as well. So you can. Which I've actually noticed noticed I'm like a skincare junkie. So like I used to always say like, if I wasn't a dietitian, I'd probably be like an esthetician.

Like well you could be with your skin if you would.

You, you're a walking billboard for it. Thank you. I, as I started using this and like things like I had like a peptide serum and I was like, you know, because it's not cheap. Right. Like you're like, I'm like, I gotta go to buy another peptide serum. And that's like a hundred dollars. Do I really need it? And I stopped using it and I was like, my skin still looks good. Okay, I'm not gonna use that. And then I had like another thing that it like so it's really replaced.

Wow, Good to know.

At nighttime, particularly because we want to simplify.

There's like 100 steps. Some people I. There was a time I had like 100 steps at night. I try to simplify.

Yeah, I'm totally with you. So it's really been able to replace a lot of things. And I think like, I appreciate you saying like, I think my skin, I've been really, really happy with how it looks since I've been using the products.

So for those of you listening, you know, I talk, I bring a lot of different concepts onto the show and I am constantly, I'm, I consider myself a wacky health detective. I love going de Jennifer and I'm always up leveling like what I'm learning and I like, I experiment on myself but I just want to share with my audience like what I've really been in this mitochondria rabbit hole. I really, this is like a legit thing I've been diving into ever since I saw that on my DNA. And I was so curious why nad was doing that to me. So I've been going now it's the same way I obsessed over gut health for a good year. So what I'm personally doing to improve my mitochondrial health, especially after seeing my DNA, which kind of freaked me out about it, and because I have dementia and my family and all of that is I do all the regular things you're saying. I definitely pay attention to the nutrition and the workouts and I do modified fasting, meaning I'm not an extreme faster by any means, but I do stretch between meals a lot longer and I do a 12 and a half foot window at night. The other thing I've added, I personally have added red light and sauna, infrared sauna, I alternate. So one morning I'll do just the red lights. The other, the other day I'll do my infrared sauna. I've added in mito pure. This is something I've definitely added in and I'm paying attention to that. And I'm, I'll be tracking how that's going and I'm just really aware of that. And I'm not doing the hardcore, my repair stuff. Like I'm not or not repair. It's the, I guess it's the adding as I learned from you. I, if, if we don't feel good with something, I think we need to listen to that. And so I know many of you love nad and that's great for you, but if you're someone who's tried it, I've tried it all the ways. I've done the iv, I've done the injection, I've done the swallow. None of it feels good to me. None of, none of it. So I listen to my body. I figure my hypothesis, again, not backed by science, not backed by Jennifer. My hypothesis is if you have not great mitochondria and you keep trying to add new, it's like eating a bunch of French fries and chocolate and then trying to add a salad on top. It's just not that you won't feel good. So I think that's what's happening with that. My hypothesis, but I love this and I'm going to tell all of you. I always share when I find something I love. This is what I'm doing. So if you want to try this. Also, timeline is offering 10 off your order of Mito Pure. So you can totally try it. And all you have to do is go to timeline.com forward/nataliejill. So that's timeline T I M E L I n e timeline.com forward/nataliejill. And that's how you'll get 10% off to try. I do. I command you all to try it. I want everyone to try it.

Yeah, no, it's been. I mean, it's just such a powerful, like, the skin and the nutrition, like, they're just really, like, they're so gentle, but so powerful. It's just, I think it's something that people should try.

Any other fun tips you have for us? Just because you are a midlife woman, you've been in the nutrition game for a long time, you've seen it all come. Like, what do you want to, like, what do you wish you could just tell every midlife woman?

Oh, gosh, I think.

Open forum here.

Like, what do you. What's changed with you about nutrition? What's changed? Like, what do you want them all to know?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think for me, like, what. I like to just, like, not take everything so seriously. You know, I think there was like, a time where I, I was like, you know, stressing out about, like, every little thing that I, like, put in my body, every little thing that I did. And, like, I don't know, I just really embraced sort of like, I don't know if it's like the 80, 20 or like, 9010 rule, but, like, you have to be diligent about your health. Right? But, like, there is. I just, I've started to see this, like, more and more. I was just like, working with a woman yesterday who I just think, like, has, like, severe food anxiety and like, today's, like, world of social media, like, she's just, just like, she doesn't know what to eat anymore. She's so stressed out. Like, she's not eating with her family anymore. Like, life is too short to be too stressed. It's like, to your point of, like, if something doesn't feel good in your body, like, if, like, you're losing your mind over what to eat. Like, yeah, that is not doing you any bit of good. Right. And so it's just really being in tune to yourself, not taking everything so seriously and, like, finding that balance of, like, the things that make you feel amazing and feel alive and the things that are just sort of like the baseline. Like, this is what you need to do for your good health.

I love that advice. And I know because you're close to my age, like, we saw the trends, you know, like, we grew up 70s and 80s with, like, you can pinch it in. It's like all the artificial sweeteners and the, the massive fat dieting and the counting every calorie. And I like that you said at the beginning you're not a fan of calorie counting because that's. You're rare with me. Like, I do not love calorie counting at all. So I love that you shared that as well.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just, you know, it's like I try to watch, like, my protein, my fiber, my, like, vegetables. Like, I try to count those things and, you know.

Stay away from counting all the other things.

So, so good. Thank you so much for being here, Jennifer. I appreciate it.

Thank you.

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