429: Blood Sugar, Diet Trends, and the Cortisol Connection – Midlife Health Part 2 with Keri Glassman

Yeah. So cataracts is basically just the clouding of the lens and eventually as people age, they're going to have clouding of the lens of their eye. And so surgery can be done in different ways. And it can be done using a laser or not. It's a super simple surgery.

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Welcome to Midlife Conversations. I'm your host, Natalie Jill, and I'm passionate about having amazing conversations that matter to us midlife women. On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated health topics and breaking them down simply so that we can optimize aging. Together, I share actionable steps to help you thrive in what I believe are our best years to come. Join me as I interview the most inspiring people living their best midlife years and dive into essential topics like hormone changes, health optimization, weight management, blood sugar, emotional well being, relationships, beauty, and so much more. Do we give up carbs? Do we add a lot more fat. Should we count calories? Should we be doing keto, carnivore, vegan, what's the right way to eat? And other midlife topics like cataract surgeries and how food rules have changed over the years. And what is all this stuff happening with aging? Today I'm continuing the conversation with one of my best friends, Carrie Glassman. She's founder of Nutritious Life with. We did a part one a few weeks ago where we covered all the juicy topics like glp, seed oils, alcohol consumption, how much protein we should be having. And that episode was so well received. If you didn't hear that one, that part one, you might want to listen to that first so you're not left behind. But we've got a part two today where we're diving into more juicy topics and I'm pretty sure we'll have a part three because we could go on for hours and hours and hours. So if you are here with us today, we're welcome. This episode is not just airing on my channel, Midlife Conversations. It is also airing on Living a Nutritious Life, which is Carrie Glossman's channel. Thanks for being with us today, Carrie. Welcome back. I can't wait to have this chat today.

I'm so excited to chat with you again. Like you said, we had a part one and you know, you and I could just chat, nutrition, wellness, all the things all day long. So always so fun to see you. Always better is in person. But I'll take, I'll take it this way too. And yeah, just love chatting with you. So excited to continue.

So we're going to start with a topic that's not really nutrition related, but it is an age related thing and we're over 50. So if you're here with us, you are probably somewhere in midlife, we're assuming. So Carrie just had something that I thought we wouldn't need till we were like 95, but I guess she had cataract surgery. I. Yeah, tell. We tell us about the cataract.

Yeah. So if you're watching a video, no eye makeup. I can't wear any makeup right now for a week because of the cataract surgery. And also something else happened which I was talking to you about. One of my eyes is drooping a little, which came from the. That was the first surgery I had. So I have never had good eyes. I started wearing, I started wearing glasses in ninth grade and I started wearing contacts probably by the time I was a freshman in college because I played lacrosse and I Couldn't see the ball well. So I started wearing contacts. And I remember when I first started wearing the contacts all the time versus just glasses to, you know, see the blackboard. Back in those days, I remember looking around saying, oh my God, like you can see the little lines in between bricks and buildings. Like, I'd been used to seeing fuzzy for so long because, anyway, so I was very nearsighted, so I could. I'm sorry, yes, nearsighted. I couldn't see far and really bad for very, very long. Uh, you know, for all, all these years. And every few years, you know, my prescription would get a little more intense, but it's fine. Used to wearing my contacts, I actually didn't even start using readers like many people do. They're in their mid-40s. I didn't even start using those until really about two years ago. So I actually like held off on that for a while. But far, forget about it. I couldn't, I couldn't see anything. So anyway, I went, I felt like my prescription, I needed it, I needed to like increase it again. I felt like I still couldn't see very well. Things just felt a little fuzzier. So I went to the doctor and the. About a couple of years ago and the doctor said, new prescription is not going to help you. You've got cataracts. And I'm like, cataracts? My, I mean, my 81 year old dad just had this done. So I said, what? And he said, yeah, it can happen. It actually is a lot more common in people starting over the age of 40 than people think. So people just. It's that most people end up having it at some point in their life. So by the time most people, most people hear people having it, you know, in their 70s, in their 80s, but it is actually not so unheard of for people in their 40s and 50s. Definitely. I'm on the younger side, but it's not as crazy.

What is it? What are cataracts and why do we get them and is it easy to remove them?

Yeah, so cataracts is basically just the clouding of the lens. And eventually as people age, they're going to have clouding of the lens of their eye. And so the surgery can be done in different ways and it can be done using a laser or not. It's a super simple surgery. I mean, I have to say I went in and me being the morning person that I am, I elected to have the first surgery surgery of the day. So I went in, I got there at 6am they do they give you a little bit of drops to numb the eye and then some anesthesia, but you do not go under general anesthesia. And I walked into the operating room, sat up on the table, and they, you know, you start to relax a little because you are relaxed. You do have some anesthesia. So you're relaxing and they tape your eye open. And I was just like, relaxed. It felt like 10 minutes. And then go into post op, you don't feel one single thing. And the craziest thing is, is that the second you're done with the surgery, you see better. It's not like there's no, like, recovery. I mean, there is a recovery. I'm taking drops now for the next month. Anti inflammatory and antibiotic, but. And a steroid just, you know, drops. But there's absolutely no recovery as far as, like, you can't see well or there's pain. I mean, you feel great. It is the easiest. It is the absolute easiest thing.

I have trauma from having LASIK surgery like four times where I had. I had LASIK surgery and I did not do well with them taping my eye open. I like, remember all of it. I was super stressed about it. And then I got something called epithelium overgrowth. So they had to go in and correct it like several more times. And like, my left eye is terrible now. So it's. And I'm not having them touch it ever again. I have like that rare trauma from Lasik. So it wasn't like that. Like you didn't feel.

No.

Okay.

I actually feel great about it. The only thing that did happen happen was that. And this is rare. I think it only happens in like 2 to 16%. I think that was the stat I saw of people. But my. So the first eye that I did three months ago, I just did. So I just did the right eye last week, but the other eye I did in November. And my eyelid, you can see, if you're watching YouTube, you can see this. My left eyelid is a little bit drooping. And that's called ptosis. It can be triggered by cataract surgery. It's a little odd to me because it doesn't. Like, they're not doing anything with the eyelid. Why would that happen? But it. Again, it can happen. Cataract surgery can trigger it. And it's.

Is it permanent?

So supposedly it can get better. It usually would have been better by now. And if it doesn't, I'll have to. I'll have to see if it improves at all. And where I end up. And then I may have to have surgery for that. So that won't be fun. And that's a little bit of annoying thing that came up, but I do think that that is very. Again, that is pretty rare.

And it's called pitosis. And it. So why do they do one eye and not the other eye? And then first, why do they ever do them at the same time?

So I think there's multiple reasons. Well, one, I think they just want to make sure that, you know, just you react okay to it. I mean, I think. But the other thing is that oftentimes people want to see how they're seeing because you sort of. You choose. So this also corrected. Now I'm not wearing any contacts. Oh, wow. So now I'm not wearing contacts at all. But I could have done it where. So now, like, I'm not seeing 2020 far, but almost. So I don't need to wear a contact. I could wear a contact to see, to have 2020 vision, but I don't have to correct that. But I'm. I still need. I'll need readers for, like, really up close, fine print. But, you know, looking at the computer, I won't need readers at all. So you can kind of decide how you want your site to be. So I could have made one perfect for far and. And one perfect for upfront and, you know, close up. So they kind of like want you to decide how are you feeling? And after I had the first one done and then I was sort of off kilter. I was off balance. I said, I do not like this. I don't want to have one eye one way and one the other. I want to be perfectly even. But that, you know, not everybody feels that way. Some people want one eye to do one thing, one eye to do the other. So I think it's sort of also like figuring it out and doing one at a time. So I started with the left eye, which was worse, and then I went to the right eye.

And then if the. You have ptosis in one eye, when you do the other eye, is it likely to happen in that one too?

I think that's just. I think it's just as random as. Oh, really?

So you could just be one versus the other.

Yeah.

And then how do they fix it if you have to have surgery to fix that?

I mean, I think it's similar. I actually haven't. Like I said, I haven't dug into it because I'm kind of waiting to just see if it. If it gets better. But I think it's similar to. I mean, this from my little bit of investigating so far, I think it's similar to, like, a bleph surgery, which you know all about.

So they just lift.

I mean, they really are, like, lifting your eyelid. Yeah, that's what it is.

Interesting. Right now you just, like, you're giving me a little wink. It's kind of cool.

My daughter's like, you look like you're, like, exhausted or high or something in one eye, like.

Well, I feel like it wouldn't be. I honestly didn't notice until you pointed it out the first time. And then I was like, okay, now I see what you're talking about. But I wouldn't have noticed it just randomly, but I feel like if they both matched, you wouldn't even care. So it's. It's more that. It's just that they're both different. That's where it. That's where you're noticing, I guess.

I mean, I guess if they match perfectly, but still, I'm used to kind of feeling, like, bright. Bright and awake, and I feel like I do look a little bit like. I don't know, like I'm half asleep. So I don't really want to look like I'm half asleep. That's not. That's not my vibe. That's not my vibe.

Pitosis is the same thing that happens when people do Botox too low and it migrates and it like. Or that's something different.

I mean, I think it has the same look. I don't know if that's what they call it, but I think that has the same look. Yes, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, I think ptosis is really just the drooping of the eyelid, so. Yeah. And I think. And pitosis, by the way, it's not just triggered from cataract. There's lots of reasons. I mean, I think a lot of people just, you know, with age, that can happen, too. So.

Yeah, I mean, it was all these.

Fun things with age. Right? All these fun things that can happen with age.

Well, at least we're not talking about bladder leakage yet. That. That might be later. We could talk about that after you have babies that happen, but I. Apparently that gets worse with age, too.

Fast forward. Fast forward a few years. Natalie and I are going to be talking about. We're going to be sponsored by. Sponsored by. Oh, come on. This is getting depressing.

I know.

We're depressing enough. Yeah.

We're going back to food. Let's talk about nutrition and Food. And I want to.

Let's.

There's so many different topics. I don't even know where to start. But let's start with. Okay, let's start with the different diet trends and what we've seen changing over the years. And by the way, if you're. If you had not listened to our first episode. Harry and I are good friends, but also. So I'm a. Where I'm a licensed master sports nutritionist. She is a registered dietitian. Dietitian and a nutritionist. And she has trained and helped countless our registered dietitians and nutritionists, build businesses and work with clients. She's really behind a lot of that. Carrie has also been the face and the spokesperson on many talk shows coming in to talk about nutrition. Now, what's interesting about me and Carrie is if you were to really just generalize like a generalize and look at.

Not all. So don't nobody send me mean emails. Not all, but a general bunch of registered dietitians. They maybe are trained a specific way to follow, like, government guidelines and specific things there. And they're trained for hospitals and school cafeterias and things like that. And sometimes they're very different opinions than nutritionists that think a little bit differently about things. They're thinking more functional and outside of the box. What I love about me and Carrie is we have pretty much always been on identical pages. So when we talk nutrition, we have a lot of alliances and agreements on things. So that was one of the things that kind of bonded our friendship originally. Originally. And I just want to list, tell you, the listener, that, like, even though we're not. We're certainly not doctors. We're not trying to be a doctor. You always want to listen to your own body on things. So we're sharing our opinions here and our experience working with many, many, many clients. So these are our opinions. So don't. Don't get mad at the messengers. We're just sharing our opinions. Okay.

All right.

So that being said, let's start. I mean, Carrie, you kind of start. What's your feel feeling about all the different diet trends and changes that have happened over all the years that we've been on Earth?

Okay. So I actually have a column on my site, nutritiouslife.com called Diets Decoded. And I start that column regardless of what diet. I'm covering with the same intro each time. And what I say is that all diets, all healthy diets, and we. And by the way, when I say diet, I don't mean going on a Diet to lose weight. I mean, a diet, we all have a diet because we all eat the.

Way we eat the way we eat.

Exactly. So all diets, all healthy diets, from paleo to vegan, are pretty much the same. And people say, well, what do you mean? Paleo, you're eating, you know, all this meat, and vegan you're eating no meat. But here's what I mean. They basically are going to, and you don't even have to call it a diet. It can be your own diet. Whatever you call it, they are your way of eating, your way of eating. They are going to, they are going to emphasize fruits and vegetables, lots of vegetables, so you're getting lots of fiber. They're going to emphasize staying properly hydrated. They're going to emphasize very little, as little as possible, highly packaged processed foods. They're going to have as little added sugar as possible. They're going to have a good amount of quality protein, whether it be animal and, or plant. They're going to have lots of healthy fats. So all of those, all of those traits of a healthy diet could be applied to, you could call that many different diets. Like that could be the Mediterranean diet, that could be a Paleo diet. I mean, that could be a lot of different diets. So those are the things that I like to think about and say, like, whatever diet you're following, you just want to make sure that you are, for the most part, checking all of those boxes that I just mentioned, and if you can check those boxes of, you know, again, as little packaged, highly processed foods as possible, as little added sugar, a good proportion of high quality healthy fats and healthy amount of carbohydrates with like, also emphasizing lots of fiber, et cetera, et cetera, to go through it all over again, then that's a great healthy diet. Whatever, whatever you want to call it. I don't care what you want to, you know, you don't have to call it anything. You don't have to have a label.

So here's what I want to say on this. First and foremost, if you're feeling good and you're healthy, your lab markers are good, you're feeling good, you've got focus, you've got energy, you feel like you're optimizing your aging process, you're aging well. I'm not challenging what you're eating. That's the first thing I want to say. So whether you tell me you're a vegan, you're a carnivore, you're paleo, Your grapefruit diet, I don't care if you are feeling optimal, you are healthy, it's working for you, you're at an ideal body weight. All those things I won't even challenge, like, that's great. That's great for you. What I do want to say, commonality wise, is that, and I know you agree with this, Carrie, so obviously chime in if I'm wrong here, but we both feel that eating primarily unprocessed, natural, real food and getting in all of your macro, your nutrients, so getting in protein, getting in carbs, getting in healthy fats. And a big thing that her and I are both an alliance on is phytonutrients. So fruits and vegetables. So anytime I look at a plan that it's completely eliminating fruits and vegetables, the alarm goes off for me.

Totally agree.

Because number one, like, let's talk about oxalates for a minute. A lot of people all of a sudden talk about oxalates. It is very rare for somebody to have an oxalate allergy. Like it's a thing. It is not as common as people. People talk about it being. And fruits and vegetables are how we're getting our antioxidants. They're how we are helping to optimize aging. It's healthy long term. So when somebody says they've completely given up fruits and vegetables, like maybe they're carniv. Not against it, if that's working for you. But what I question, if you're saying you feel amazing and you feel terrible when you eat fruits and vegetables, I actually would love to know what's creating the problem that you feel terrible eating fruits and vegetables. I think there's something deeper there, typically with your gut health or something that we're not aware of, because that should not be happening. That's my Natalie's opinion. Again, don't come at me just my opinion.

No, I agree. And I do think, and again, that's why I said healthy diets should all incorporate those things. If you have a diet that doesn't have all of those things that I mentioned, and again, it's going to be slightly different for everyone, but then that's not going to be a healthy diet. Like you just said, carnivore diet, where you're not having any fruits and vegetables, I think you're missing out on a lot. And like you said, if you don't feel good having those fruits and vegetables, but why don't you feel good with any of these? And of course people are going to have different sensitivities to certain things. And some people can't handle certain things and they have again an intolerance to something. But for the most part, you know, we need our fruits and vegetables like you said to get those phytonutrients. So all the different. The micronutrients and phytonutrients found in fruits and vegetables are going to. Many of them act as I say, they act as antioxidants which fight free radicals which are those bad guy compounds in our body that cause everything from inflammation to aging, heart disease, cancer, neuronal degeneration. So a huge way that we protect ourselves and help us live longer and better and optimally is by getting in those antioxidants. And you know I wrote a whole book on antioxidants. So I'm a. I'm a big antioxidant fan.

What's funny is we both, we did it kind of separately. You what's in it? Your book is O2. What is the name?

O2 diet was my antioxidant book and.

Then mine was Aging in reverse and we both same. We both. It's like a lot of similar stuff around fruits and vegetables that we kind of came up to with on our own research like researching independently figured these things out. So when I look at. Because my whole goal is how do we age optimally like so I'm not trying to. I actually this was a terrible title. I wish I could take that calling this Aging in Reverse. I would not call it that now because I don't want to age in reverse. I want to age optimally. Like I want to age well and be able to have that focus, that energy. I want to look good at all those things. And I don't see how we could do that healthy wise without plant based foods too. I just don't. When I see somebody who swears by carnivore like they've been. I don't think they look that good. I just going to be true. It looks like they're aging more rapidly sometimes.

Well I think people don't. That's almost like they. They look oftentimes I think gaunt. But also I think there's just like a. There's a. There's maybe a glow again. I don't, you know, I don't want to.

Okay, so then my other.

Don't come at me.

Don't die. I know My other thing is I'm also not a fan of vegan and I want to explain why again with this, we're asking for some mean people Right now I already can see where we're going with this again. If it works for you, great, keep going. Here's my thoughts with vegan. I think some people can do it very well and it's, and they're thriving. And I actually know a few people that are. The majority of people don't do it well if they're trying to be vegan. So when you're vegan, you're basically giving, I'm not saying vegetarian vegan. When you give up all animal nutrients, all animal nutrients. So you're not having fish, you're not having meat, you're not having dairy, you're not having eggs. Yeah, you're not having any of it. To me, to get enough protein, you could do it, but you have to start incorporating a lot of beans and quinoa and other carb heavy foods. So you're creating other issues on top of getting rid of that. So some people do thrive okay with that. A lot of people don't. In fact, I've had many clients, I've had many guests that at one point tried to be vegan. They did it, they didn't feel good. Their labs changed, everything changed after a few years. So they were not doing well. So I understand ethically when people want to do that. I understand religious reasons. I don't believe health wise it's ideal. What, what's your opinion, Carrie? Not opinion.

Okay. So my opinion is that I, I think personally I could never be vegan. This is, this is just personally for me, I can never be vegan. I am never satisfied. I know that I need a certain amount of animal protein. I generally don't like to get animal protein more than once a day, sometimes twice a day, but I really try to minimize it. But. And I also get lots of plant protein, but I have to have a certain amount animal prote my diet and including some good grass fed and finished steak. So for me personally, for many of my clients, I feel the same way. For many of the people, many of the people I've worked with over the years, I really do feel the same way. I think it's very hard to be satisfied and it's very hard to have that right proportion of nutrients where you're not overdoing it with things like with carbs. It's very difficult to have that right proportion if you don't have any animal protein. With that said, I will say there are some people who do feel much better on a vegan diet and they take the time and energy to really be prepared. Yeah, because you do have to really prepare. You can't be a pasta, diet coke, pretzel, vegan and think you're going to be healthy. No, I mean, I think, you know, there are many people out there that literally eat things like pasta four nights a week and drink, you know, diet Cokes and still think that's a healthier diet when it's absolutely not.

So if you're doing an unprocessed vegan diet, like if you're really taking the time to get in your, your fruits, your vegetables, your grain, your, all the things you need high fiber, right?

I think it can work for some people, but I think even doing it that way, it's still not necessarily going to work for many people because I think it's still hard to be satisfied. And for many people that really need to get in a certain amount of protein to maintain muscle mass especially so they prevent sarcopenia and muscle loss. As you age, I think it's even. I think it becomes even harder. So I think for women our age especially, I think being vegan is even harder to maintain your health. And that is not to say that you should not be getting in lots of fruits and vegetables and plant foods and you need all of those things for your fiber as well to feed your microbiome. But I think that a diet that incorporates some animal protein can go a very long way in terms of maintaining muscle satisfaction. So you don't overdo.

Other foods. It can be very helpful. And the other thing is even going out to meals. When you go out to meals, sometimes it can be really hard to find a lot of vegan options that are actually satisfying and healthier. Sometimes you end up just going for that pasta because that's all that's available. And you know what, that's just mostly empty. It's just empty calories. So you're missing out on getting other higher quality nutrients. So you just have to be very responsible and you have to make sure it's really working for you and you're not just doing it to do it.

Also, if you have an autoimmune or like I'm celiac and Hashimoto's, if I were to look, I would have both those, I have both of those things in me. So ideally you don't want to eat inflammatory foods. So some things that are inflammatory, obviously sugar and dairy are inflammatory, but so are grains. Grains are very inflammatory. So someone that has autoimmune is not going to ideally do well with greens. And when you look at a vegan diet, You've got to include a lot of grains. So that's. Right there creates another. Another thing. So I think if people feel amazing on it. What I don't understand is why some people get so heated around this topic. Like, there's some people that are so. They're like almost. They get violently mean to people that are not. And I. That is. We're all.

I totally agree. I totally agree.

We all have different nutrients that we like. We all. You got to listen to your body. So that. That is. That's been a bit of a trigger with me. I will also share that I stopped when I was 12 years old. I stopped eating red meat. For me, personally, I did not eat it for over 31 years.

31 years.

I did not know that.

How do you ever know that about you?

Yeah. And then I, about a year ago, started craving it out of nowhere, like my body needed it. And now it's like I can't. Like that's what my body needs and wants and I feel better.

You were eating fish.

I ate fish and chicken. And yeah, I was eating a lot of that, but I've. I still do eat that, but I. It took a long time for me to add red meat back in, but I feel better. It just. I feel different adding it in. So now I crave it.

Wow, that's so. That's really interesting. I did not know that about you with the red meat. Maybe we just. Maybe because. I don't know. That's so funny because I guess I just. Maybe I assumed you ate it because I've obviously seen you eat things like chicken, but. Yeah, I've always been a meat eater. I probably have increased the amount of meat that I eat.

Yes.

In the past, probably five or so years, I think just again, focusing on very high quality meat. And.

Me too.

And. But. And trying to have less of it out, more of it at home because then you can control the quality. So I usually do. I usually do have more red meat at home that I'm cooking than out. But. But I think it's just one of the. Again, the most satisfying things you can.

Yeah, it's. I think I feel like my body. But again, if you're listening and you're like, you are strict on one thing, it's. Do you feel good on that? Are you getting the results that you want?

Do you.

Are you. Your labs are your. Is your focus, all of those questions. You have to listen to your own body and be your own health detective to make sure that's. That's fitting.

Right.

For you?

Yeah.

My other issue with some, some of the, the when you say a trendy diet. So like when we go, some of the trends come and go is, is I look at, is something sustainable for life. So if you are doing something just for a period of time, that's not the ideal. The ideal is to find a way to eat that works for you, that you can continue to eat, which gives you food freedom. So when you are eating out, you're at a friend's house, whatever, you're not constrained to that. So like when we look at fasting, for example, like, let's talk about intermittent fasting for a minute. There's a lot of benefits to fasting and I know when we talk about blood sugar in a few minutes we can talk about that more. But there's a lot of benefits to fasting and different extended periods of time or whatever it is. But if you are doing strict intermittent fasting and you eat all your foods within four hours or six hours, my concern with that is, can you do that for life? And if you can't, that's where it starts feeling like deprivation and restriction. And that is another issue I look at with some of the trendy diets. Is, is it a lifestyle method? What are your thoughts there?

I totally agree with you. So what I always say to someone, is this something that you can do 360 days a year, not 365, because there's always going to be, there's always going to be a handful of days thrown in there that something is totally off. But that's why I always say, can you really do this 360 days a year? And when you think of it like that, yeah, this is totally manageable. This is totally doable. I go out to dinner three nights a week and I can still eat this way. I cook home. And this isn't too much time to cook. I can still incorporate this in. So if you can look at it and say that, which is really exactly kind of what you're saying, then it's a sustainable diet for you. But if you're doing something that is, you know, it's even like when people do like some meal delivery programs or something, and I say, okay, they can be helpful as a reset and they can be helpful to teach portion control and the types of foods. But the one thing that I always like, remind people is you have to then really plan on setting yourself up for what are the changes you're going to make going beyond that so that you actually take advantage of that. Time that you have that you, that you put in and the money you invested in doing that meal delivery program. Otherwise it's exactly what you said. You're just going on something and then off. And it's kind of a little bit of, a little bit of a waste. It can be a jump start, but it's a little bit of a waste. So you really. Even when I do a cleanse, I always, every book I've ever done and for many, many clients, I do a four day jump, a jump start type of a cleanse. It's just a four day little like I always say, you know, it gives you just a little bit of a boost. Yeah, but, but it is not it the reason it's a boost, it's a framework for your plan going forward. So it's not a, you're doing a cleanse and then you're completely switching your diet and doing something else. It's literally the framework for it. So you're still eating breakfast every day. You're still eating, you know, three meals. You're still getting a snack. You're getting protein, carbs and fats. You're getting all whole real foods. It's just. So you're. Then what you do is you build on those four days. So it's still setting up a structure even if it is an extreme thing that you wouldn't technically do forever. So that's, and that's really my, my whole thing whenever I'm setting up someone on a plan is you really want to create a lifestyle that is really, you know, a sustainable plan for you.

Yeah. One thing we didn't talk about in here, we talked about fruits and vegetables which definitely have a bunch of nutrients and fiber. What are. And then we talked about protein because both of us are on board with getting in more protein, I think. I know you said you have one animal protein meal a day. I definitely have more than that. I definitely have at least three of those a day. And I've switch even my protein powder, if I'm adding that into I'm switching to a beef isolate versus I won't.

I won't count eggs with that though. I won't count eggs. So that doesn't count. I mean.

Okay, got it.

Yeah.

What about fiber? What's your take on fiber and how much we should be having?

Oh, I mean we, we are. First of all, none of us are getting enough fiber and we. Fiber is critically important for so many reasons. So one fiber helps fill us up and stay and keeps our blood sugar stable. We know that fiber is found in foods that also have all those other things we mentioned, the phytonutrients, antioxidants. Because fiber is found in things like fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, many, many different healthy foods that have many other healthy nutrients. So that's another reason fiber also feeds our gut microbiome. And we know our gut microbiome has our good bacteria, bad bacteria. Fiber is going to feed that good gut bacteria and help create those, the byproducts that we need to that control and help so many of our different bodily processes. So we need fiber for our good gut health, we need fiber for our immune health. We need fiber for that gut brain connection and our mood. So fiber also moving out, cholesterol, moving.

Out, saturated, moving things out of our bodies. We need it.

Yep. Yeah. So fiber feeding our gut microbiome and having a healthy mutual gut microbiome, again, critical for everything. I just mentioned immune brain health.

Again, our digestive health, obviously. So it is just, it's absolutely critical. And something that I think when we are on something like a carnivore diet or keto diet, it's really hard to get enough. I mean, you're not, you're not getting enough.

How do you, what do you have in a certain amount of fiber you aim to get for, get a day for you? Personally?

I mean, I'm never counting it for me personally because I know that I eat, eats, I eat foods that have fiber really at every single meal. Even if I'm having, you know, high protein breakfast like eggs, I'll still at least get some fiber in some raspberries with the, with my eggs. So and then I know that I'm getting lots of fiber in vegetables at lunch, lots of fiber and vegetables at dinner. There's going to be some nuts and seeds in there. So like, I feel pretty good. There's gonna be some grains in there, some legumes at some point. So I get, I'm pretty sure I know my diet so well at this point that I know that I'm getting in a decent amount for me. And also, like you said, do you feel good? Like, I'm going, I go to the bathroom regularly. Yeah. So, like, I feel good. I'm eliminating, like, I know I'm getting a decent amount when it comes to someone, you know, that I might be working with. If it, if I look at their diet and say, wow, you're really not getting enough fiber here and you're having, and they're having issues going to the bathroom and they're having other, you know, other things going on. They're getting sick or we don't. We think they've got some gut health issues going on. Then I will actually take a look at exactly how many and it will depend if someone's getting 10 grams of fiber, we're not going right up to 35. We're going to work our way up and then we're going to get to a place. Well then, okay, are they now at 30 or 35 and they're going to the bathroom consistently and they feel better and they better energy and their, you know, blood sugar's more stable, you know, so there's a, there's a lot of different things you look at and you build someone and you, and you build someone up slowly.

So I think my fiber primarily, same thing, I don't count it. But it comes mostly from fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds versus because I don't really eat greens and I don't eat beans. For me personally, for me, it's very inflammatory when I, when I eat those things. So I typically will avoid that. But I. So I'll eat lots and lots and lots of fruits and vegetables, working to get that in. And same thing I look at how am I feeling? Are things moving along? Am I, am I going to the bathroom every day? So same same idea there. So on that topic of that, there's another couple things we didn't mention within food we were talking about. And I want to bring this up because these are. Some people don't realize how important this is. And I want to open the conversation about how things like artificial sweeteners might be affecting us. And then also your thoughts on GMO and organic, like how important those things are. I don't even know where to start here, which, where you want to start with these. If you've listened to my podcast for any amount of time, you know, there's been lots of guests and lots of talks where we've chatted about what to eat, getting enough protein, eating healthy, the importance of it, why we want to eat organic. But I want to share that as we age, it's not just what we eat, it's what we digest. Even if we eat super healthy, clean, organic food, we can still not have the best digestion. You see, our natural ability to digest food declines with age. This is because your body produces fewer enzymes, which are the proteins responsible for digesting food. And when you have fewer enzymes, this means more difficulty digesting our food. So even organic, healthy, or what you think are perfect foods won't provide enough enzymes. To properly digest them. So this is especially true if you cook your food, which most of us do, because cooking kills the enzymes. So if you've ever wondered why you might have digestion problems even after having a healthy meal, it's because your body just can't produce enough of the enzymes to get the job done. So this is where supplementing with high quality enzyme supplements can be a huge help. So I personally use and recommend a specific digestive stack from bio optimizers which includes their mass Zymes which is a best in class supplement loaded with full spectrum enzymes for digesting proteins, starches, sugars, fibers and fats. So when you take this enzyme daily, and I personally take them with each meal and replace the enzymes your body is no longer producing, you're able to eat all sorts of things and digest them quickly without the bloating, without the feeling, you know, puffy, without the leaky gut issues, all of that. So when you digest your food properly, you're actually getting all of the nutrients. So I've got an exclusive offer for all of my listeners if you go to biooptimizers.com NatalieJill again bioptimizers.com NatalieJill you can also use coupon Natalie Jill to save. You'll see my recommended stack which includes the math times, the HCL and the probiotic.

Yeah, these are all big, big, big topics. So.

What was the wait, what did you say?

Artificial sweeteners.

Artificial sweeteners, yeah, let's start with that. So artificial sweeteners and I think for anyone that knows me and has been, you know, listened to anything that I said for over the years, they know I'm not, I'm not so black and white. I don't say you can never ever have that and always have that. I'm really, I for the most part artificial sweeteners is one of the things that I say it should be a never. That should be one of those things that you should aim to remove from your diet always.

So what do you put in the box of artificial sweeteners? Like are you, because you, are you counting monk fruit and stevia there or just more like nutrasweet and what are you counting in there?

Yeah, so those would be more natural non nutritive sweeteners. Artificial sweeteners are going to be things like saccharin, aspartame. So think like the blue packet. Yep. The you know the pink packet it a sulfame K which you see sodas. So sucralose I would put in there. Absolutely. So all of those. So those are artificial sweeteners. So they're non nutritive, meaning they don't have calories, but they're, they're artificial sweeteners.

Why would you say the never.

So they are. So the reason I say never to those is they are about 200 to, I think up to 800 times sweeter than sugar. They, they, what they do is they still trigger that insulin response. So even though you're not getting calories from them, you're, you're, but you're still like your body still thinks you're getting something sweet, so you still have that insulin response. And then also since they are so sweet and your body thinks you're having something sweet when it doesn't have the calories that follow that sweet taste, your body goes looking for it. And I've seen, and you know, there are studies that can show both sides of this, but I've just even seen it anecdotally with clients like you will look for sweets later on in the day. If you're drinking Diet Coke all day, you're going to crave sweets at night. So that's one, that's one reason. Also we just talked about how the microbiome is so important and I think that the micro, we just talked about for so many reasons why the microbiome is so important. And there's also research that shows that those artificial sweeteners can disrupt the health of your microbiome. And then you got to think also like artificial sweeteners are found in unhealthy foods. They're in some kind of highly packaged processed food. So there's the, and the other thing is you just crave, like I said, you crave more sweets. You're kind of getting yourself used in this behavior of craving sweets. So I think like there's really, there's just no benefit to that reason. There's really no benefit. And so, and even people say, well, what about someone with diabetes? And I say, well, if you're someone with diabetes and you're eating a balanced whole food diet and you have a meal that has protein and healthy fat and your blood sugar's balance, there, there is generally room if you're want to indulge in a little dessert, in a small portion of a real dessert, you know, with again in conjunction with a balanced meal, your blood sugar will be able to handle that. You should. So I'd rather someone do that every once in a while and learn how to do that in portion control than have all of these artificial sweeteners in their diet.

Yeah. It's such an interesting thing when people say something like that. Like when you said, what about if you have diabetes or so I. This is completely unrelated topic, but when I had my implants removed and I talked about when you have anything foreign in your body, you are going to create a response in your body that's not necessarily favorable because you put something foreign in your body, it doesn't mean you can't choose to do that. But putting a foreign object in your body has its risk. Like, just like if you put metal in your body.

Right.

You might, that might be a medical device that is necessary, but you're still going to be at risk for more metal toxicity in your body. That's a, that's just a fact. That's a real thing. People get very defensive and like when I would say that about the explants or having something in your body, they would say, well, what about medical necessary? Like I'm unfollowing you. Well, okay, fine, I understand that it's medically necessary, but it's still, it's still a foreign thing going in your body. So it's still important to be aware of. That doesn't mean you don't make the choice, but you have to be aware.

Well, it's risk reward. And the risk for not doing it for somebody if it's medically necessary is obviously worse than totally risk of like some toxicity, so. Right, exactly. Risk reward, always.

But it's the same thing with artificial sweeteners. When someone says, well, what, my, my kid has type 1 diabetes. So, so what about for them? Well, this is an even more important thing for you to be aware of. They already have an autoimmune disease. This is an important thing to be aware of. So now do we want to give them artificial sweeteners on top of that? I'm not going to say yes, you should just because to make them feel better, that is still not the healthiest choice. So it's just the fact. It's just the thing.

You're absolutely. It's such a good point. It's like you already have something wrong. Like why do you. Are you going to aggravate something else unhealthy? Yeah, yeah.

So. But then that brings me to. Okay, this is another concert. We're going to all the different topics today. Okay, I'm going to be careful here. I don't even know if you're going to answer this, but then someone says, well, the FDA said it's safe. Do we have any comments on that. Like what? Yeah, because I don't, I don't even know what to say there because it's like, well, yeah, but it's.

Yeah, I mean, well, so. So I always say, I go, but does it make, does it make sense? Does it make sense? Is there a reason to have it? So when I said, when someone says that the FDA says it's safe, I said, okay, so, so it may be safe, but can we say that there are foods on grocery store shelves that are unhealthy? And most people say, of course there are. Right, so there's foods that are unhealthy. Does it mean if you eat that food once in a while it's going to kill you? Absolutely not. It's not.

The question is shape for what.

But just because that food, having it once in a while isn't going to kill you, you know, it's not a healthy food. And if you're already somebody that has a disease, why do you want to put things into your body that you know are unhealthy?

Exactly.

So again, this doesn't mean that you can never, ever have it. But if you're trying to build, like we were talking about, building sustainable habits. And if you're somebody that has, whether you have diabetes or you're just trying to eat less sugar, if you're trying to build habits that are sustainable and healthier for a better, healthier, longer life, why not try to make those changes and do it in a way that it is actually healthier? If you're having art artificial sweetener instead of the sugar, you're just replacing one thing, one unhealthy thing, with another unhealthy thing. So why not improve, Reduce the amount of sugar dramatically. Get it from healthier places, like maybe a date with some peanut butter in the date. Maybe that's really satisfying to you. So have something like that, make it healthier versus just swapping one unhealthy thing for another unhealthy thing. So that's how I feel about artificial sweeteners. I really, it is one of those things that I say and that doesn't mean, like, if you're someone that's doing, you know, all, you know, sometimes I have, I've had clients in the past that, you know, have 10 packets of sweetener and a coffee every morning. And I say, like, I don't say take it out altogether tomorrow, but we're going to really work to take that out. We're going to get down. We're going to maybe cut it in half at first or maybe go to seven packets and then go to five and then go to three. But there's no reason not to work towards reducing it altogether.

And I'm going to say it's the same with artificial anything. So you look at food colorings, you look at all of these things. Again, when someone says, well, it was told it was safe, but you have to also say safe for what? Like say for what? If you're looking at long term age, optimizing aging well, staying healthy, being out, being off, not having to rely on a ton of prescriptions and all of these things, we have to be really aware of this. So I'm not going to argue with somebody that says that they, you know, they're like putting their foot in the ground, like, I'm going to have this, okay, awesome. But then are you at optimal health levels? But if you're complaining that you have migraines or you don't feel good or all these things and you're not willing to look at that, then that's on you. Like you, you got to look at this stuff. You can be defensive all you want, but if you're wondering why you're not feeling well, you're gaining weight, you're aging rapidly, all these things, you have to look at these things.

Another thing was you said, well, you know how when people say, well, the FDA says that's okay. Or you know, I also say, but okay. They also say a lot of things are okay for us that are not okay in Europe. So like there's, so there's that, that's a whole other thing to consider.

Yeah, so, yep. So I'll say it's the same thing with food colorings and a lot of other things there. Let's talk about the organic for a minute and gmo. I do eat primarily organic, grass fed, free range, non GMO foods. Now. My reason behind it is I don't want the added pesticides, I don't want the extra antibiotics and all the stuff that's getting put into things. But also, and this is going to maybe sound a little woo woo and weird, but just the energy of things. So if I feel that if an animal was caged and trapped and not living a good life, like, like that is the energy transfers. I believe that. So like I don't want to eat something that was raised in that environment. So to me, grass fed, finished, like they lived an actually enjoyable life. They had, they roamed, they. That energy transfers. That's just my, my little woo woo thing. Which your thoughts on all that.

Yeah, I mean, aside from that part, I mean, I didn't really. I don't really think about it for that exact reason. I just think of it as being healthier animals. And healthier animals, there's going to be. It's healthier meat. Not to, not to like, freak people out saying that. But. But it is. It's just they're healthier animals. So that's how I think about that. But the rest of that, I totally agree with you. And the one thing I'll say, when it comes to organic, I do aim to have as much organic as possible. And, you know, there's always that argument. Well, you know, organic, if you're. When you tell people that, then there's so many people, it's. It's not affordable. And then you're really veering people away from having fruits and vegetables. I am not saying that it's organic vegetables or no vegetables. I'm saying that is a goal, right? Is I'd rather have the organic if you can afford that and do that. And so. But I will also say that there's many people that, you know, think they can't afford the organic vegetables, but they're spending more money on these other highly packaged processed foods. So I say if you stop buying the highly packaged processed foods and you prioritize organic, even if it's. You're buying local from a farm stand, so now you're buying it local, it can often be more affordable because. Well, a couple reasons, but one main reason is that many local farms, you can find local organic farms that are not certified organic because that is expensive, but they're actually organic farms. So you're getting, you're getting sort of those organic vegetables with. Not necessarily as high of a cost of, let's say, buying organic vegetables at Whole Foods. So there's ways to do that. There's. You can also buy organic frozen vegetable fruits and vegetables that's also much more affordable. So when you look at, like, how you're spending and prioritizing, there are ways to do it that are more affordable. I'm not just going out buying, like as much organic whatever, not thinking about it. Like, I'm not, I don't spend on a lot of the junk. So it's like, that's true. You. You just have. Because I, I do feel like some people get, you know, they, they say, like, well, now you're gonna. When you say only buy organic, then, you know there's all these people out there that aren't going to eat their.

Vegetables kind of like, who are we blaming her? You're mad at somebody for saying that or are people mad at because they don't want to? Like, it's like, you got it, you tell it. We tell the truth. Like, you tell the truth. Is organic better? Yes, that's just a fact. Like it's, we're not spraying pesticides on it. There's not, you're not getting extra chemicals. So that's the fact. Now we have a bigger problem. Like, why is it more expensive when it's not? Like, that's a different problem.

It's a different problem.

Say the truth. Like, I'm not going to say, oh yeah, go buy pesticide foods. Because like, I'm not going to say that because just so I don't offend somebody 100%. Totally not the best advice.

So ideally we do look for organic and non gmo. Like you want. Exactly that.

Absolutely. And I mean, another problem is unfortunately, just because all of, you know, all of just the way our food system and our agriculture system is, even, even organic food unfortunately still has a certain amount of pesticides and they're still. So which is, is, I mean, that's, we can't completely avoid it. So do the best you can when you can avoid it.

Right.

You just, you know, you do want to, you do want to do the best you can. And then there was something else we mentioned when I was talking about the frozen fruits and vegetables. I wanted to mention about it, but. Oh, I know what I wanted to mention. Also one thing with frozen fruits and vegetables too, they're flash frozen, so they often retain more nutrients than fresh fruits and vegetables that have, you know, maybe been shipped across the country. Yeah. So you can also actually even get some more nutrients in them. So sometimes people think of frozen as not being as healthy for you and which also is making me think that organic foods in general, some people say, well, no, you're getting the same amount of nutrients, so you're. So yes, you do get nutrients from non organic fruits and vegetables. But actually there are multiple studies that do show that the antioxidant levels in organic fruits and vegetables, certain organic fruits and vegetables is higher, better, so they also taste different.

You can do a taste test yourself. I know when I first was with my husband, he was not an organic person initially. And I remember we would buy berries and I would buy the organic and he'd buy the non organic and he would always challenge like the price on them until I did a little taste thing with him and he could, once he tasted the Difference. He was like, I'm never gonna not eat the organic again because you literally can taste the difference. They taste fresher. They taste, taste sweeter.

They take.

That's what you're tasting.

Tastes like food.

Yeah, they taste like food. They taste sweet.

They taste like food.

When berries don't taste sweet, there's something wrong. There's something wrong. When they don't. They are supposed to taste sweet. So that's an important, important thing. So let's touch on gmo. GMO means genetically modified. You know, I have like some interesting thoughts here because on one side I understand gmo. I'm like, okay, well, we can make more accessible food. This is, we could help, help developing countries. There's a lot of things you can do with the benefits of being able to grow, like to create. Because even if you think of greenhouses, right, wouldn't that be mostly genetically? I mean, you're, you're not putting it in its real environment. So I see a benefit there sometimes. But then there's this unhealthy side of it that we're messing with the structure of the, the, of the, the product. We're cross pollinating things that shouldn't be mixed together. What are your thoughts on genetically modified?

I, I think that there's, there's, there's, there's good genetically modified foods and then there's not good. Then there's not healthy options there. But there's absolutely ways to genetically modify foods that are, that are healthy, that are not. Like you said, because it can, it can sound kind of creepy. Right?

Right.

It can sound very like, you know, Frankenfood. Like. But yeah, there are, there are many ways that genetically modified foods are actually.

Yeah, I can think of like heirloom tomatoes. Like growing them in a greenhouse can make. So I don't know, like, where do we draw the line on like, where it's helpful and healthy and versus, like this is freaky? I don't know the answer to that.

I, I know. I agree with you. I think exactly. That was actually a really good example. The, the tomatoes one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, I don't, I don't, I really don't know the answer there. I'm kind of asking, like, I don't, I don't know. Like, I, I think it's some, some foods. I'm like, absolutely not. Like, when I see them trying to genetically modify meat and I'm like, oh, that's kind of creepy.

I think it's totally creepy.

Yeah. But then I, but then I see like, A greenhouse in an area. So I don't know how, I honestly don't know how I feel that they look. I'm like, it's just that one of those. I don't know.

I think, I mean I don't think there's, I don't really think there is a perfect answer. I think it's really like an individual thing. Like you said with certain things with meat and fish that we've seen them doing, like it can kind of be really creepy. And you think like I don't want to have meat that was lab grown. Right. I don't want to have meat that just, that's like what you just said. No, if I'm going to have meat I want it to have come from a healthy animal that roamed and ate grass. Yes. Right. So like I think it's, I think it. And I think we're going to see a lot more too in the, in the coming years and there are going to be those fine lines. I mean I think like an heirloom.

Like a slippery slope, right? It's like a slippery slope. Like a little is just like AI, a little is good, but a lot is not. It's kind of creepy. I don't know.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. So I don't, I don't really have a good answer there. I want to talk about blood sugar and glycemic index because this has gotten a little bit trendy lately. CGMs and I'm going to have, I want to. Well, I want to talk about all of it and what's important and what's. And first, and let's talk about the why behind that first and foremost. Like we have learned that blood sugar is linked to a lot of age related declining diseases all the way from, from diabetes. But either even cancers, dementia, Alzheimer's. The higher your blood sugar at any given time, the more at risk we are for other things. And when we look at blood sugar, A1C is the test you would look for on your. It's one of the tests you would look for which is your blood sugar over a three month period. So we know when we're over 5.8. In traditional Western medicine that would be considered pre diabetic. I think in more the functional space we look at even lower numbers as kind of the, the warning sign there. We don't want to be higher than, much lower number than that even. But in you go to Western medicine doctor, they'll say over 5.8 you're pre diabetic. We also want to look at your fasting blood sugar, which is different for different people, but it could be anywhere from 70 to 100 considered, you know, somewhat normal in the functional, in the biohacking space, we'd want much lower. And then we also wanna look at our insulin response, because when you're secreting insulin, which is what's countering the blood sugar, this is an important variable. But the more you're secreting insulin, the we're not fat burning, the more we're secreting insulin. And I'm explaining this very basic. Carrie will have probably another layer here. But the more we're secreting insulin, we're not in fat burning mode. So if you look at traditional fasting, the reason this came about is to give your body a break for a lot of reasons, like if you're not digest, your body's healing and doing other things, but you're also not secreting insulin, which keeps you in fat burning mode. So this idea of blood sugar control came up, which is actually a great thing because I think coming off the trends of the 80s and 90s, especially if you are Gen X, we learned you have to eat every two hours. It was like this constant feeding and this constant rise in insulin levels. And no wonder we have this problem with blood sugar disregulation now. So the opposite went to another extreme. Let's, let's fast, let's cut it out. But what this brought on was the idea of carnivore and keto and fasting, but also the idea of wearing continual glucose monitors. If you've seen people, it looks like a little white circle they have on the back of their arm and then, and even finger pricking. So I want to, Carrie, kind of get your take on all of this. Like, like where is it important? Where is it overkill? Like what, what is your thoughts around all this?

Okay, so blood sugar control, like you mentioned, it is absolutely critical for everything, for mood to preventing heart disease, cancer, like all, all of the things you mentioned. So you're completely spot on. I completely agree with that. Having healthy blood sugar control is absolutely critical to our overall metabolic health. Absolutely critical. And there are too many people in this country that have poor metabolic health that put them at risk, risk for all kinds of diseases in the future. So when we talk about longevity and we talk about our health span, having good metabolic health with top priority, good blood sugar control is, is absolutely key. So I'm so happy that you brought that up. Okay, so when it comes to continuous glucose monitor, I think that let's just, let's Just talk about them to start. So I think that they play a very good role in getting people to be aware of how their bodies react to certain foods. So it gives people a lot of really good knowledge. They may have been e. Just use the example. I feel like oatmeal always gets thrown under the bus in this example, but I'm going to throw it under the bus again in this example. So, so let's say someone's been eating oatmeal for breakfast and you know, and then. But they have a really healthy lunch of maybe a salad with salmon and healthy dinners. And they're like, but wait, oatmeal has fiber. And I put some nuts in it even for some protein. Like, why? But they see that their blood sugar skyrockets on those.

Or even worse, they've added a banana to their oatmeal.

Right? Or maybe. Exactly. But I'm saying even someone that maybe like knows to even add a little protein, but their body's really reacting. Their body doesn't react. And maybe they learn that their blood sugar from, from using the continuous glucose monitor, they learn their blood sugar really skyrockets after oatmeal. You could have another person who learns that, wow, I can really manage that. And if I have a hard boiled egg on the side of some oatmeal that's like actually really balanced, my blood sugar stays really stable. So it's going to vary. So you really learn what works for you. And all of that information can be super powerful. The one thing that I don't love with a continuous glucose monitor is there are many people that use it and they're not using it under the care of, let's say a nutrition coach or a dietitian or someone helping them. And so what happens is they see, oh, my body reacted to that oatmeal that I was having. I'll use your example. It was oatmeal with bananas. And maybe they even had like a little orange juice on the side. They don't know. And so all of a sudden they say, oh my God, I can never eat oatmeal again. Or what am I doing? And they switch it up. They, they, and they don't realize, like, no, it's just, it's not balanced. Maybe it's not even the oatmeal. Maybe it's that you're having orange juice. And so they start to try to make changes without actually understanding the role that protein, carbs, fats and fiber all play in terms of managing the blood sugar. So I like People to do it, if they're really looking, if they feel like maybe their blood sugar's off, their look, they're not sure why, they're not able to lose weight. They're looking for some information. Maybe they were told that they were, you know, pre diabetic. Like there's many different reasons that someone would use a continuous glucose monitor. I just like someone to use it under the care of someone so that they really can actually benefit from the information and it not just like scare them.

Yeah. Okay, so here's what I want to add to that. So the way your body's supposed to work is you eat, if you're healthy, you eat something that has higher sugar contacts. Let's take that oatmeal with the banana example. Okay, Your blood sugar should go up 30 minutes, maybe to an hour, and then it should go back down. If it goes back down in that two hour window, your body is working the way it's supposed to. So if your blood sugar is 90 before you eat the oatmeal, you eat the oatmeal on banana, it goes up 130, 140, 150, even 170, I don't know, it goes higher, it goes higher, but it comes back down. Your body is working the way it's supposed to. That being said, there's nuances within that. So if Carrie and I both eat the same oatmeal with banana and orange juice like you just said, which is a high carb, high sugar meal, we.

Are not recommending that meal.

No, we are not recommending it. We are not recommending it. So if we recommend to both eat it and we both have different metabolic, our bodies are working different, maybe our bodies are both going up and back down, but maybe mine, for example, goes up to 200 and carries, goes up to 130, but we both go back down, what does that mean when that happens? Well, what that means is our body is working the way it's supposed to. However, one of us is having a different response to how we're eating and we need to pay attention to that. I'll throw myself under. In this example, when I started learning, I had a massive metabolic thing going on with me. So I would notice when I would eat higher starch, higher sugar, at one point my blood sugar was going up 200, 250. Now a traditional western medicine doctor would say, oh, but it went back down. So you're completely fine. No, that was a red flag to me because why is it going up so High. So high. So does that matter day to day over the year? Maybe not. Does that matter over five years, 10 years? Absolutely, that would matter over that time. So that's when it gets really important to be really aware of your body and know, okay, when I combine with protein and fat, when I go a little bit less on the sugar or the starches, I don't have that same response. That's important. Another nuance to, to look at. CGMs are not as accurate as a finger prick period. End of story. They're just not. Yeah, they could be off 30 points, 40 points. This is important to be aware of because if you're using a cgm, you want to look for variances and trends. But if you're really looking at I want to manage my blood sugar, you've got to calibrate with a finger prick to make sure I' tell you I had times. CGM is literally 40 minutes off, 40 points off of a finger prick. So you want to make sure you're checking both the most important measures to me on blood sugar, what's your fasting blood sugar? What are you waking up in the morning with? What is that? What would you like to see ideally for people fasting, what would you say?

I mean in the morning, first thing they should be 90, 85. 90.

Okay. Yeah. So I would say anywhere from like 70 to 90. Low 90s would be, would be fine. Okay. So anywhere in there you're good. I would like to see post meal. No higher than like 130. That's just what I would say.

Yeah.

When you're getting up to the 200s, not, not a huge alarm if it's going back down. But just to be aware your body's not doing as ideal with that type of thing. I know like my husband and I could eat the same sugar bomb and his will not go as high as mine. So that's just something to be aware of.

Right.

And then a 1C. What would you like to see yours at? Or what do you, what do you like to see for an A1C? A three month period.

I mean, I like people to be at like 4.5.

Okay. Oh, wow. Okay, that's, that's really low.

Pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I would say less than like, I guess it's somebody that's really working on improving that because I would say like less than 5. Less than 5 is like the first place. But I think if you can get it to even like 4.5, you're.

That's amazing. Have amazing Metabolic control is yours personally that good?

So I think I'm at 4. 8 right now.

Wow, Carrie, that's amazing. Okay, mine, my Last test was 5.1, which I was super proud of of because I was at the 5.8 before I started really tracking all like before I started understanding and tracking this. Now this is important to note because, like, I've thought of myself as, gosh, I know nutrition. This is inside out. Why is mine that? Yeah, a lot of it is your genetics and your insulin resistance, all the stuff. This is why it's important to know. So how do you get a cgm, by the way? You can ask your doctor to get you one from the pharmacy. You also, if you don't want a cgm, you can buy a finger prick test on Amazon. You could buy it. They're not a big deal. Like you just. It's.

I.

They're like $20. 25 to get a finger prick one to, to take that and test. But really look at your A1C. Now, what are some other little tricks you can do to lower your blood sugar? I'm going to share a few and then, Carrie, if you could show like, ideally balancing your food, but I'm also going to say adding berberine with your meals will help lower blood sugar. You also can look at walking after meals will definitely lower it. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, and managing stress is what people don't really think about. Managing stress is huge. And I do just want to say the 4.5, I was saying, like, I thought that's like, that's aggressive.

Yeah, but that's like, that's definitely good. That's like.

No, no, no, it's. But it's, it's very aggressive. But I thought you're saying, like, what is your like, optimal idea? Like if you can have like that and go for that. But like I said, I'm not even there and I'm. This is like what I do. So it's more like that would be like really amazing control. So I just want, I just want people.

Yeah, no, no, that's good.

And that's why even when I was saying like waking up in the morning, like you said, Even like the 70, I just want to go that one second. It's like for, like, that's great for some people, but some people, like, will never really even be that.

I'm not at 70.

Yeah, they can even be 80, like even a little bit higher. But like that 80 to 120 always like, you know, like 80 to. Or 70 to 130 fasting to eating. Like if you can stay in that.

Range like that you're fasting, you don't want to be 130. But you're mean.

No, no, no, I don't mean fasting. I'm saying that after eating, I'm saying, I'm saying from fasting to eat, you can always kind of stay in that range like before you eat 70, after you eat to 130 and go like that's like amazing. And that done consistently over time can get you to, I'm saying like that real ideal aggressive number of the 4.5.

Totally. Now you also want to be aware that when you. So don't freak out when you, if you eat and you, you're like, I ate and my blood sugar went up to 200, 250, like super high. But it comes back down within two hours.

Right.

What I want you to know is this isn't like, like sound the alarm, oh my gosh, emergency. Your body's doing what it's supposed to, but you do need to be aware that you have a, an aggressive response when you're eating those things. So that's where it gets really important to be aware. The other thing I wanted to bring up is when you, when you're stressed, how does that relate to blood sugar? So when you're stressed, your body produces cortisol. Cortisol raises blood sugar. This is actually a good thing in some ways. If you think back like years and years ago, there's an emergency. Like think back to lions, tigers and bears.

Like you're, I always say a boulder, a boulder coming after you're coming at you.

You need that sugar rush so you can get up and move and run. So your body gives you cortisol to do that. Now we don't have these emergencies in our everyday life. We shouldn't, but we, we start reacting like that. And that's why we have these cortisol spikes. So where this is good is when you need to handle an emergency. When it's not good is when it's three in the morning and you have this wake up that is likely your cortisol because you are probably dipping lower on your blood sugar at that point and your body produces cortisol to wake you up. That is one reason that that could elevate right there.

Yep, absolutely. And I mean, it's just not healthy for you. It throws off your whole cortisol curve. And you know, you're supposed to. Cortisol is their stress hormone that is supposed to be high in the morning and it's supposed to be giving you energy. It's supposed to be high in the morning, like when you're waking up six, seven in the morning and then it's supposed to dip back down at night as melatonin is increasing your sleep hormone. And so they sort of work in opposite of each other. But when you're having that cortisol like spiking, you know, at, throughout the day, at other times like that, that's also again not healthy for you.

Let's, let's talk about that for a minute and then we'll, we'll, we'll have to add a part 3 at some point because I know you still have a million things to talk about. How do you, what's your guidance on how you've managed, manage cortisol and stuff? Because I know you and I both like immediately had that, that going on. I know you made some changes with your coffee and your timing and then I'll share some things that I've changed.

Yeah. So in order to have that good sort of cortisol curve, I always say, people always say I have to lower my cortisone. Like it's not lowering it. You need to improve your curve. You actually want it high in the morning. Like I just mentioned, it's, it can be anti inflammatory. It's actually not, it's not all bad for you, it's actually good for you. It gives you energy like cortisol does a lot of good things. It's just when the curve is out of whack, it's not good for you and it's too much. So in order to have that good curve where I said like again it's, it's high in the morning and then it dips throughout the day and is lowest at night when melatonin increases, there's a few different things you can do. One, stabilizing your blood sugar level throughout the day. So eating really consistently throughout the day can be, can be helpful for that because balancing your blood sugar, sugar, it's going to help control your cortisol and your stress levels. Managing your stress, obviously managing your stress, doing your meditation, doing those things that calm you and doing things throughout the day, doing some breath work throughout the day. So doing that another thing is getting some, I always talk about that waiting to have your coffee in the morning. So waiting about an hour and a half to have your coffee in the morning can be helpful because then what it's doing is you're sort of resetting your natural rhythm because Instead of you're setting, you're. You're letting it rise and then start to drop on its own versus having your coffee and kind of giving yourself that jolt. And then it also. Because that will also raise it. So then you're. So you're sort of letting it do its own, its own thing. And that's a little bit, again, that has sort of. There's a little bit of research on both sides there. But I just know from doing it, it has been helpful. And it also has been extremely helpful in terms of having better energy in the afternoon. Not having the coffee first thing in the morning is helpful for the afternoon, and my sleep is much better. So if you can do some of those things and then you notice that you're not waking up at three in the morning with a jolt, because usually if you're waking up at three in the morning, one of the reasons it could be is that your cortisol is increasing at that time, the wrong time, not six or seven in the morning. So if you're noticing that that gets better and you have more energy in the afternoon, like that's. Those things are all working, working.

So I'll just add to that. So typically, and maybe this is more my ADHD personality. Like, typically if you're adhd, you do have a dysregulation with like serotonin and dopamine and cortisol. So that's something I've had to navigate. And with midlife, that's always going to get a little bit worse too. So really paying attention to some things like light. Light is a whole nother level on cortisol and melatonin. That's super important to be aware of. So when you look at like how it was in the 70s and 80s and even early 90s, we didn't have the LED artificial lights, we didn't have all the screen time. We didn't have all the things that we're adding in now artificially. So we used to, I don't know if you remember, like in the 80s, you had Amber lights in your house and they were not overhead. So now you add in where most of us live, you have the LED, bright white lights. Then you have computers, TVs, iPhones, iPads, like all these things with this fake artificial light coming at you. That is all disrupting your cortisol and melatonin. It's disrupting it all of the time. So what are some things that are just like, easy to do? Number one, we've started to slowly change out lights and have AM like use red lights or amber lights at night. This is a gradual change because we were the big fan of the daylight bright lights in our houses. Right. But really being aware that after sunsets, whatever, wherever you live, whatever time that is, whatever time of year when sun sets, being really aware of blocking that blue light. So what I use, I use blue light blockers. I use viva rays, the ones I'm using right now. But I'll put the orange lens on after the sun sets. So I'm blocking out that and getting, it's more like mimicking that natural amber light. And then at night, right before bed and I'll putting the red lens on, but being really aware of changing that, the light, what's coming in. And then not having a cell phone near my bed, not having, if I'm watching TV at night, I'm watching it with those glasses on just to be really aware. That will also change how your body is producing melatonin and cortisol. Also making sure your last meal is not high starch or high sugar. Why is that? Well, when you do that at night, your body is going to then secrete insulin to counter that and you're going to get back into a low blood sugar which will wake you up. So like I'll notice at dinner, if I have protein and a big salad and fats, I don't necessarily have this, that, that 3:00am Wake up. However, if I were to have a baked potato at night or higher starches, I will likely get that wake up. So paying attention to how your body's responding to that last meal too.

One thing I'll just say on that though, because that can be very personal because sometimes some, some grains at night, again, I'm not talking about a big bowl of pasta that's all sugar, but something like, let's say a portion of farro with your salmon and your broccoli rabe.

But that's different than a white potato. That's different than a white potato. Potato that's got the fiber too.

Absolutely. But I just, just want people to know though that some of those carbohydrates. And again, this is what's all individual, still helps your body release serotonin, which is then helpful for melatonin and it can actually be helpful for you for sleeping. So that, but that's all individual. If you notice that that doesn't work for you like that and you wake up, then like again, that's not working for you. But I do see that some people having that starch at night can actually actually be helpful. One of the other reasons.

But she didn't say ice cream at night. You didn't say.

I did not say gummy bear. I didn't even say pasta. I said.

Yeah, she said, she actually said like healthy fiber car is what I heard you say.

It was more fiber.

Fiber carbs. Yeah.

Yeah. At least, at least a, A source of carbohydrates that even has, you know, that has fiber to balance the blood sugar. But you are getting still some of that. The carbs. Serotonin to help release the serotonin. But one of the reasons I actually have to say also that I don't love people even getting their carbs like that at night too. If this. And this would be another reason that it wouldn't. Wouldn't. That. That wouldn't be the case. Is that like, it's very easy to overeat your carbs at night like that. It's easy to overeat them. You're. The end of the day, you're eating or even, especially if you're out to dinner and then you have a serving of something, it's going to be a bigger portion. But you just may notice. I just wanted to kind of give the other side that.

That.

Yeah, I love for people too. So.

Oh my gosh. Okay, we're here. We are.

We.

We went a lot longer than we already thought and we're not even done like most of our topics, so we're gonna have to. We're gonna be adding on. We'll do the.

Gonna keep doing it.

Yeah, we. I love this.

So.

So, okay, so if you are liking this, if this is helpful, if there's something you want us to deep dive that we haven't talked about yet, please comment. Let us know whether you comment on my YouTube video or you go to either one of our podcast channels and let us know or through our Instagram. But let us know what you're thinking of this conversation, what we have not addressed that you would love for us to address and we can't to. Can't wait to deep dive even more with you. Thank you all. Thank you for joining this midlife conversation today. If you've been found this episode valuable, please share it with friends and family and be sure to tag me on social media. Natalie Jill Fitz, the biggest thank you you can give me if you love this show is to leave a review and hopefully a nice one at that. Now, as a gift, if you do leave me a nice review and screenshot and send it to support NatalieJill.com we will happily send you our digital DSR journal as a thank you to advertise on this podcast. Partnerships on this show are done by partnerships by Category 3 media group. To advertise or to inquire about that, reach out to Sales Adminategory 3 cat.