435: How Our DNA Predicts Our Health with Kashif Khan

What does that mean? The mind and neuro.

Meaning if I have your DNA, I can describe your personality to a T. I already know who you are. I don't need to talk to you.

It's so true, y'.

All.

When I first got on the phone with you, you, it felt like I was talking to a psychic. I'm like, what? How do you. Welcome to Midlife Conversations. I'm your host, Natalie Jill, and I'm passionate about having amazing conversations that matter to us midlife women. On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated health topics and breaking them down simply so that we can optimize aging. I share actionable steps to help you thrive in what I believe are our best years to come. Join me as I interview the most inspiring people living their best midlife years and dive into essential topics like hormone changes, health optimization, weight management, blood sugar, emotional well being, relationships, beauty, and so much more. By midlife, our DNA has already set the stage for how our body responds to everything from food to stress to environmental toxins to. The genetic blueprint we're born with does not determine our just our eye color and our height. It's actively influencing which health challenges we might face in our 40s, 50s, and beyond. Today's conversation with Kashif Khan. He's bestselling author of the DNA Way. He explores how understanding our unique genetic code can transform our midlife health journey. Now, Cash discovered firsthand that mysterious chronic conditions affecting millions in midlife often have genetic roots waiting to be decoded. Now, after overcoming five chronic diseases himself by aligning his lifestyle with his genetic needs, he's now helping thousands, if not a lot more, rewrite their own health stories, including mine. Cash, thank you so much for being here today. I have so many questions. You really opened my eyes. You really enlightened me about what was going on with my own body, why certain supplements are affecting me strange. So thanks for being here today on Midlife Conversation.

It's a pleasure honor. That's that. We'll jump into it. It's great.

So if those of you that have been listening to the podcast for a while, you know that I am really adamant about us in midlife being our own health detective, Meaning we don't just eat healthy and move our bodies and decide we're going to be healthy. We've got to really understand what is going on, whether that's exploring our gut, whether it's exploring our hormones, our thyroid, all the things. But there was a big missing link for me that Cash recently really came full Circle in helping me understand. I couldn't understand why some supplements or some suggestions that all the gurus were doing were just not working for me, were making me actually not feel well. I'll give one example, nad, which is a very popular thing that people do as an injection or an iv. It was really giving me anxiety. If I did any nad, I would get so much anxiety, which made no sense to me. But Cash, through what he taught me about DNA and his specific testing method and how he interprets, really opened my eyes to why that was happening, why I was presenting as ADHD in a lot of ways, a lot. A lot of different things that he really closed the loop on. So, cashier, I think you're just absolutely brilliant here. Can you take us back a little bit? How did you even get into this? Where did this come from?

So I, like you, was confused about why certain things didn't work and why I was sick. You said it. I had five chronic diseases. So I actually don't come from the space. And I think that's exactly what was needed, because at the time, genetics was this ivory tower academic exercise of deep PhD level thinking. But the many billions of dollars that were spent on research, nobody got better. It didn't actually get to you and me, right?

No.

So I got sick. I actually ran a technology marketing company. So I used to help tech apps and technology companies grow. I'm in Toronto, kind of had like a mini silicon Valley here, just outside the city.

So nothing to do with health or science or Nothing.

Formal training, nothing. I just got sick. And I think the best training you could get is somebody hitting you in the face, and then you got to fix it, you got to get back up again. Right?

Yeah.

And I got diagnosed with five different things. First time I ever needed a doctor, and I didn't understand what doctors did, and I thought they would figure out why you got sick and tell you what you did wrong. And what they said is, here's your diagnosis and here's your pill. And there's five different doctors giving me five different diagnosis of five different pills. And when I would ask, well, this can't just be serendipity. There's all this stuff happening. I've never been sick. Everything all at once. What did I do? What did I eat? What did I breathe? What did I touch? And if I were to paraphrase, their answer was like, we don't do that here. Right. Really prescribed. So figuring out why you got sick is not their job. So I went on this discovery journey of figuring out what made me sick, went to naturopathy, traditional Chinese medicine, osteopathy, homeopathy, you name it. I looked at it all and eventually found out that my unique genetics were broken. And there was very important biological processes that just weren't happening for me. And so the exact same thing that my business partner was doing with me every day, food, movement, work was fine for him, but making me sick, Right? And so when I started to learn what those pieces of broken biology were, I changed my habits. And I realized I didn't actually have five chronic diseases. I had a massive amount of inflammation that was resoundingly, you know, triggering all these different symptoms. But if I dealt with the central hub, all these spokes of symptoms went away, and that's what I did.

Okay, this is wild as you're saying that, because I just, you know, made a comment that, okay, you didn't come from the health industry or the wellness industry. You came from a tech background. But when you. When you really think about it, that's what you figured out with genetics and DNA is because in tech world, you're, like, looking at each thing and how it connects to the next thing. And that's literally what you did in health. So your background is actually perfect for this. That's. That's so wild. It's doctors, to me, so many times they always test blood. Like, that's the most common thing. They test blood, and then you'll have others that will test stool or urine or saliva. But why is DNA not in genetics, not something that's typically tested?

Because the tests are designed for the diagnose and prescribe model. Why do they test your blood? To know if you need a pill or not. Not to ask you what caught what's in your blood that's making you sick. Right? So the. The markers that are being looked at at the MD level are all around, hey, your class. This is a simple example. Your cholesterol level is high. Time for you to start taking Lipitor.

Right?

And in that equation, does anyone ask, why was my cholesterol one level a year ago and a different level today? What changed?

Right?

What potentially changed? There's genetics around hardware quality, quite literally. If you look at things like your cardiovascular system, if I have your DNA, I know how. What the quality of the material is. Is it resilient and is it, you know, able to cope with environmental toxins, or is it more sort of paper thin and highly prone to inflammation? So if that's you, and then you reach a certain age where your mitochondria start to deplete. So you don't have as much cellular energy, which is why midlife is where these things start. It's not because they're ages of their diseases of aging. They're diseases of poor mitochondrial function, which happens as you age. Right? Less cellular energy means more inflammation. Now all of a sudden, you have this bad hardware, genetically predetermined, and you might have bad detoxification pathways genetically predetermined. You might be touching, breathing, smelling something that's toxic in nature, causing inflammation in this tissue. What does your body do if you have inflammation in your arteries, it will actually use cholesterol as a hormone to fix the inflammation. Cholesterol is a repair tool.

Okay, wait, back up a second. Because this is. This is where you really got my attention before, because this was literally me. So can you say that again? Because some people, People automatically put cholesterol into bad toolbox. Like this is bad. Not supposed to have it. Say what you just said again of why what it's being produced for.

Cholesterol is literally the soldier your body sends to go fight inflammation in your organs and tissue. It's a repair tool. Think of it as like Vaseline smoothing out dry skin, right?

Wow.

That's literally what it's doing. It's fixing tissue. It's also the foundation for your sex hormones. You can't make testosterone without cholesterol. Your brain is a ball of fat. And no surprise that with the prescriptions of Lipitor and statins, you also have diagnosis of Alzheimer's, right?

Because when you remove the cholesterol with the medication and you just. Without understanding this whole picture here, you're removing the protection variable. Is that. Did I hear you right?

You're removing the protection without asking why did you need the protection? And why you needed the protection is some environmental toxin cause inflammation of the tissue, Cholesterol is deployed. Now, cholesterol comes in contact with the toxin, it also starts to get damaged and oxidized, and the cholesterol receptors don't recognize it anymore. And there's genetics around how good your cholesterol receptors are. So if you have bad receptor genetics, then it's very easy for that cholesterol to build up and get left behind because the receptors already don't do such a good job. Right? So you might have a perfect storm that equals if I'm exposed to the wrong environmental toxin, I'm going to end up with a cholesterol blockage buildup, classification plaque of some sort because I can't tolerate the on suing Repair my body's trying to do. And the cholesterol isn't the disease. The cholesterol was the repair tool oxidized by the toxin that eventually doctor says what I'm allowed to measure is a cholesterol level because that allows me to prescribe a pill.

And if I'm hearing you correctly and I'm connecting the dots, some people, if they don't have that problem with how their body is going to adjust or use it, it could be very helpful to have that higher cholesterol.

This, this was actually so the, the bad receptor gene where you don't do a good job and so it's easier to develop. Plaque was actually a beneficial trait for our ancestors because our ancestors didn't experience chronic everyday inflammation. They experience acute once in a while going to war and getting stabbed. And so the person who had the bad cholesterol genetics had free flowing cholesterol molecules available to repair the tissue. So they were more likely to survive the battle. Wow. This was actually a genetic trait that was meant to benefit us. But now we have chronic everyday inflammation where it's too much. That's the difference.

Okay, so if you, so first thing, if you. This is just a complete example of where my mind was blown about these various things like that we've been misled to believe about cholesterol, for example. But I don't want people to jump to the conclusion that you know, you just have high cholesterol, just ignore it. It's still going back to. But why and how is your body using it when it's producing it? So this is different. So how much. So a lot of people have avoided getting genetic testing or DNA testing because they're scared of it. Like, they're like, I don't want to find out I have this bad thing and then it's doomsday or I don't want to. And I've heard that a lot, especially people with like the BRCA gene or they don't want to know what are your thoughts around that.

So that used to be true. Because keep in mind, even genetics, you have the most personalized thing you can do, which is read your human instruction manual to understand exactly how every cell, every hormone, every detox pathway works. That's literally what it is, an instruction manual. But that then got in the hands of pharmaceutical research trying to use genetics to just make pills to solve rare genetic conditions. So it turned into, okay, cardiovascular disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, these are all lifestyle things. They're not genetic. Right. Let's just focus on Things like sickle cell syndrome and rare breast cancers like brca, for example. Because eventually you'll be able to make a pill to turn a gene off. Now, pharmaceutical sort of methodology works, but the truth is that none of these gene markers that are being looked at actually cause the disease. When you study in a pharmaceutical model, you're studying sick people, so you're studying in a disease centric context, you're studying somebody that already has Alzheimer's now trying to figure out what gene is related to Alzheimer's. They don't study people with that exact same gene that didn't get the Alzheimer's and ask them what did they do. Right, right, right.

Makes sense.

That's the actual information we need. So the prescription around this gene causing something, and that's. So you mentioned brca, let's use as an example, right? So BRCA is a scary four letter word for women. The Angelina Jolie effect, where she literally cut her breasts off. A doctor said, you have the BRCA gene, go cut your breasts off. Right. And how many men are told, go cut your penis off. Right. How many people are risk for brain cancer? Go cut your brain out.

Right.

It's, it's, there's a reason why this is happening. And now young women are being told, cut your fallopian tubes out to avoid ovarian cancer. Wow. Right.

Wow.

So why is this happening? The BRCA gene doesn't cause cancer. The BRCA gene is a tumor suppressor. So God forbid any woman ever gets breast cancer or any sort of cancer. BRCA is the gene that then comes along and tells your body to go fight and kill the cancer. Right. Now, if you have a bad version of the repair tool, you don't do a good job of recovery, which means whatever caused the cancer, you're more, you're less likely to survive. And so when you study someone that's sick, you're going to consistently find this BRCA gene issue because they're not recovering. But you're not studying the healthy people to ask why didn't.

So what's really going on is some women, and this is one of many examples I can give you if you want to know the actual why, I can test a five year old girl and tell you exactly where her breast cancer would come from and help her avoid. Right. As opposed to the BRCA gene, go cut your breath off. So here's an example. There's a gene called CYP19A1, and it's responsible for a process called aromatization, which is taking your testosterone and Converting it into estrogen. Every woman does this every single month. And some women have an ultra rapid version of that gene. So they make way too much estrogen. Right. And so they're what we refer to as estrogen dominant. That's step one of three. Step two is after you make the estrogen, there's three potential forms of estrogen you could then convert into two hydroxy estrogen, four hydroxy 16. You don't need to know what those mean, just know that 1 is good, 2 cause inflammation. Right? The first one is good for you, the other two cause inflammation. Now if you are estrogen dominant and you are making one of the toxic inflammatory versions, we then have to look at your detox genes to understand the very specific detox pathways that are responsible to eliminate that toxic thing that you made inside your body. Right. How well is that working? So you might have the perfect storm of estrogen dominant, estrogen, toxic, bad detox pathways. Now, on a monthly basis, you're making something in your body that's not leaving because the detox pathways aren't there, that is causing inflammation. Eventually your body recognizes this threat and says, I prioritize my organs. I'm going to keep this stuff away from the organs. I'm going to keep it away even from my vasculature, my veins to keep all the good stuff safe. Let's go park it in my fat. Because fat is deemed as safe by your body. Where do women have fat?

Breasts.

Right. So now all of a sudden you have this monthly deposit of toxic metabolite that you're making inside your body in your breast tissue. But even then, every woman doesn't get sick. Well, 85% of North American women will go on the birth control pill for five to 10, 15 years, overloading that estrogen story. Yeah, women will go on bioidentical hormones. And I'm not saying hormones are good or bad, but the wrong version in the wrong genetic profile, overwhelming that system, not understanding hormone disruption, etc, from chemicals to yoga pants to frying pans, all of it overloading this. Now you have the perfect storm of genetic profile. Set me up for inflammation. My habits overloaded the system. This stuff is being deposited in my breast tissue, causing inflammation, eventually damaging cells, leading to cancer. And after all that, the BRCA gene is supposed to do something.

Got it. So you're so it's like the gene is there, you have the gene, but you still, still the environmental things and the other things that we're adding in that will say how it's expressed and what Happens with it.

And now the difference is if you test the genetics of BRCA gene, the answer is go cut your breasts off. If you look at things functionally with all these different pathways, I said, you now come up with a set of habits. Remove this, add this, add this supplement to stop making the toxic estrogen. Remove these yoga pants because they have phthalates in them. And now all of a sudden you balance things where you don't cause the cancer.

That makes a lot of sense. You know, any time.

If I ever post anything in the fitness scope of things like if I, if I show that I have abs or that I'm super fit or whatever it is, the comment that will come up is it must be great to have great genetics. Like, a lot of people will go to that, right? I just want to share with you all, when Cash did my DNA, I have some of the worst genetic markers on things. Just to give you an example, he said things like my, my methy was, was terrible. My detoxification genes 50% less effective than normal. I have an APOE gene which is associated with cholesterol transport. I have severe. He. This is what it said, severely compromised mitochondrial function, 70% reduced efficiency. This is the reason I'm bringing this up is lifestyle really can play a role in this. And I, and I saw it, I didn't understand why until I, until I did this with you and understood more now. But just to give you one example, I want to take mitochondrial function. Let's talk about that for a minute. Because mitochondrial function tends to be trendy lately. It's like the new, the new topic people want to talk about. Lots of supplements coming out to help with mitochondria. What Cash made me aware of is depending on where you are in your genes, depends on where you can start to repair mitochondria. So can we talk about that for a minute? You can use me as an example. You said I had 70% reduced efficiency.

So very important consideration when it comes to aging. If you think about aging and disease, it's really an equation of energy and inflammation. How much inflammation based on environmental toxins, stress, food, whatever is causing inflammation. And then how much energy do my cells have to be resilient against the inflammation? The net result of that is how fast are you aging and what diseases do you have right now? Which disease is based on hardware? Like I said, bad arteries, you're going to get cardiovascular disease. Bad brca, you're going to get breast cancer. Depends on which one, right? So when you have poor mitochondrial function like you do, you might decide to go exercise and run on a treadmill like people think you're supposed to. And for you that will actually age you faster. For you, that will actually make you feel horrible. You won't recover because you don't have the capacity at the cellular level to produce the energy that's required for that type of activity. And when you get into what we call oxidative stress, which is running on a treadmill, taking in a lot more oxygen, which then gets funneled through your mitochondria. So your mitochondria are constantly using oxygen and nutrition to make energy. They combine both of those things to make energy. In the process of using oxygen to make energy, you make something called an oxidant. And oxidant is a free radical, it's inflammatory in nature. So this whole process you don't do well. Which means those oxidants that are being made don't leave the cell, they're kind of stacking up. This pollution, the smoke is choking the cell and aging it prematurely from the oxidative stress, which is also leading to lack of recovery. So a bunch of friends go on a five mile run. One person's ready to do it again the next day. You're, you're in bed the next day because.

And you didn't, he didn't say don't work out by the way. He, his answer is never like you can't have a healthy lifestyle. His, your answer was do what I've known innately to do. And that strength train, that' things like a carol bike. Like, like the short intervals like you. So it's not about. No, you can't exercise. It's like you find what works with your DNA.

Yeah. Everything you do with a good intention, you're able to hyper personalize the choice. There's options for everything. What do you eat? Should I be vegan? Is keto going to work for me? You know, do I take hormones? Every single one of those things, there's a right or a wrong answer that's not the same for each one of us.

So why when some people have. And this was definitely me with mitochondrial supplements, I couldn't understand why like nad would be so great for some people and for me it would make me super anxious. And I know some of you listening have had that same experience. So how does that happen with mitochondria and then the various supplements on the market to help with mitochondria.

So it's a combination of mitochondria and your neurochemicals. And I Think. One place where we really, you know, not to sound arrogant or brag, but where we really made a dent in the interpretation of genetics is the mind and neurochemicals. So this was ignored.

What does that mean, the mind and neuro.

Meaning if I have your DNA, I can describe your personality to a T. I already know who you are. I don't need to talk to you.

It's so true. When I first got on the phone with you, you felt like I was talking to a psychic. I'm like, what? And he didn't look at any labs. He didn't interview me ahead of time.

You didn't. You.

You only saw my DNA.

Yeah. Neurochemicals don't lie. Serotonin, dopamine, brain drive, neurotropic factor. These are all the chemicals that allow you to perceive your reality and also drive your motivation. How irritable you are, how much things mean, how emotional you are, how much trauma do you experience. These chemicals create these perceptions. And the genes drive. How much do you make? How much do you bind? How long does it last? So let me get. So this is why I'm saying there's a combination. If it's not just a question of your cells not being able to benefit from the nad, they get overwhelmed, but it's also. The inflammation you experience is also neural inflammation, brain inflammation. And your brain is wired to experience the world at a much higher level of detail than average people. Right? And there's no good or bad when it comes to neurochemicals. It's more like, discover who I am and what is my human design and go do that. And I'm going to thrive versus discover who I am. And now I understand why there's friction. I don't get along with them, or I hate my job, or it's. It's because you're not doing what you're designed for. So this is what's going on is you have this already, this propensity towards. I see everything, I hear everything, I smell everything. Which also makes you irritable, frustrated. Right, because other people don't see the world that way. So it's constant disappointment. Constant. You believe this 120% of is what's going on. And they believe the 80% is what's going on. And then you're trying to talk to each other, make sense of it all, right? But now you're able to walk in a room and notice that, okay, I'm the. You know, I can see it all, but I should only expect 80% from people and then we get along.

So what's wild too? Is there anyone that's neurodivergent? So you're adhd, you're autistic, like all this shows up in your DNA. So when I did this with him, like I'm, I'm adhd, that's what I've been my whole, my whole life. But he, without knowing that, without us talking about that, he literally picked up all those things about hyper focus, about not interested, about fight or flight, like all the things shows up in our genetic markers. So. Which is completely wild. So when you, you mentioned, when I asked about mitochondria, like why do some people like supplements feel different in them? And then you mentioned there's a, my, a NER a mind connection with that. Can you. What did you mean by that? You said there's a, there's a piece that go with.

In mitochondria, the highest density in your body is in your cardiovascular system. And number two is in your brain.

Okay.

Number three is your eyes. And for women there's a very close tie to number three, which is the utero lining. Right. Which men obviously don't have to deal with. So because there's such a high density of mitochondria in your brain, there's a bigger delta value of what you would feel when it goes up or down. And so keep in mind that as you age, your mitochondria deplete. So the average person that hits the age of 50, and by the way for women, it starts a little earlier than men. Your mitochondria start to deplete, so they actually shrink, they become less resilient as the individual mitochondria and they actually die off. So that the average person loses 70% of their mitochondrial capacity by the time they're 70 years old, unless they've done anything to maintain. So you have to do that maintenance. And then the resistance training is a great tool for that that you're doing right Joth. When you have this mitochondrial depletion, it's felt very significantly in the brain, in the heart, it's. The impact is there, but you don't feel anything. This is still why cardiovascular disease is the number one killer drop in mitochondria, inflammation hits your harder. The brain, we notice it. Can't remember where I put the keys. I'm more irritable, can't sleep at night, things are anxious, the anxiety. So the neural inflammation, maintaining the same load while not having the same level of cellular energy in the brain. And that's going to lead to inflammation, it's going to lead to high cortisol and it's going to lead to this fight or flight type state where the body doesn't want to repair and recover. And so there's a cast. So fixing the mitochondria is one thing, but also understanding what your brain is capable of at any given age is another thing.

Now, maybe I jumped to conclusion with this analogy, but I'm going to. This is where my brain went because again, you just said I'm hyper focused on details and then people want. But what, what I thought of is if you eat a bunch of junk food and then you try to eat a salad on top of it, you're not going to be able to get the nutrients necessarily from the salad because you did all the junk food. So if you've got dysfunctional mitochondria, you've got other stuff you've got to clean up first. Just piling on a very heavy supplement, like an nad, which is extreme, is going to not necessarily work. You're just going to feel it, you're just going to feel the anxious or the anxiety without it doing all the good work because it's almost like too strong. You want to start more basic, like you had mentioned to me, like polyphenols are just getting, you know, just regular things, not going to these extreme levels first.

Yeah, well, there's two things to note there. First of all, all the people that you hear about online that are talking about the extremes have already been through the, the stage one of dealing with their acute problems, Stage two of optimizing and figuring out what supplements to take. And they're seven, 10 years into their journey. Right? When you hear this biohacker online, when you hear some influencer, they've been doing it for a long time, so the terrain, head to toe, is ready for the thing they're talking about, right. Step one is not what they're doing. It's like when you go to the gym, you don't start by deadlifting 400 pounds. No, right. You, you'll break your neck, you'll break everything. Right. So you have to start with where you're at and then keep going. This is a big gap in the, the info that people are getting versus where they're at. Second thing to consider is our healthcare industry has taught us to think about the body as separate and siloed individual puzzle pieces. And that is a great way to keep somebody sick, because you never actually get to the root cause, because the root cause is never a single lever to pull, it's always multiple systems fails. The body is resilient. The body is designed to repair and thrive. The body is not designed to be sick. It's when many, many things are going wrong that it's overwhelmed by the total burden that eventually becomes symptomatic. And to your point, it's like, okay, mitochondria over here. I need to work on it. But you can't just work on that. What else is going wrong? Are your hormones doing well or are you making a toxic estrogen? Is your glutathione pathway off or is your dopamine levels low? So you're burning yourself out because you work too hard. You have to do all of it and optimize all the systems. And what are we seeking? Homeostasis. The middle. We're seeking that all systems elevate to the middle. So think of your body as a chain as opposed to individual systems. And if there's one weak link in the chain, every system is slowed down to that level. That's the maximum capacity because they all are intersecting and working together. So if one system doesn't work, they're all working to that maximum level of that poor system.

This is something that Cash said that I recorded when we talked before. This was my specific DNA, but I know others have this similar thing with mitochondria. You said you're loading up a system that doesn't work well when you go to extreme supplements. And so really you have a system that doesn't work well, and then you loaded it with a horsepower and there's nowhere for it to go, which is. Makes total sense. So if you, if you were taken something that somebody else told you, oh, I don't feel anything when I take it, or it's, it's fine with me. But you're feeling that it's because of how we genetically are. So it's, it's, it's just different for us. We talked a lot about fight or flight state, and I know a lot of my listeners, they deal with this and we hear a lot about cortisol. And I think just our society is really driven towards this fight or flight with the constant stream of, you know, text messages and social media and a million TV shows to choose from now and all of that, how is that affecting our DNA or how is our DNA affected by that?

So quite literally your DNA is affected, but also how is your health affected? I can tell you that, you know, I work with a lot of pro athletes, celebrities, CEO type people, and it doesn't matter where they're at. I always start with fight or flight anxiety, trauma. Even if they think they don't need it, because they all do. And they don't realize until we start talking about it. It was very hard to be alive in 2025 and not have some kind of plan, strategy around your nervous system. Nervous system needs support and regulation. Given the influx and of what we're dealing with versus what we're capable of. The human body is designed to be in high stress 5% of the day. That's what it can tolerate.

5%. And we're doing it like 20 hours of the 24.

It's literally the flip opposite. Right. We get 5% recovery. It's like lying in bed at night flipping through Instagram trying to get some me time. That's all that's left. And the body was designed for. Think about what a cave person's life looked like. Our DNA hasn't changed in 250,000 years. There's no change. We're wired like K people. So that's. What did they experience? Everything was the same. Once in a while there was a storm. Once in a while, some wild animal walked through the village. Otherwise things were normal. Right. So having said that, your nervous system has. There's genes that play a role in how you actually experience trauma. Some people do it more than others. Adrenaline surges through your system and creates a change in biology. And if you live in this state where adrenaline is always surging and the imprinting is always happening and your serotonin is always being triggered to react in terms of your mood, then your cortisol kind of stays on, it stays up here. And when your cortisol stays up, which it's not supposed to, it's supposed to be 5% of the day. Right. Then you eventually end up in a state that we call a cortisol addiction. And cortisol addiction feels like a high functioning anxiety. It says, drive this. I can't stop. There's no rest and recovery. As soon as I.

That was exactly what he told me. My problem is this is what you said about me.

Yep. And when you're sitting there, it's disorienting to feel rest and recovery. It's like you start to immediately. Should I check my phone? Should I check my email? What's on the to do list? Which is not the way the brain's supposed to work because.

Is it because we're searching for serotonin to regulate ourselves or like what's happening there when you.

The cortisol is staying up here. The adrenaline is staying up here. So your body literally thinks you're in battle. It doesn't reconcile why this is happening. And it didn't happen to our ancestors other than when they were in battle. Right. Go watch the show about Vikings and see how. Yeah, but then they were in the farm just eating and playing around and that's how people lived. Right.

And so what do we do? Because it's a lot. It's. We can recognize that. And I think there's more. A lot of people navigating this. Like, it's a lot easier just to say, put your phone away. But it doesn't really work that way. We're still searching for other places. Like, what do you do?

So there's two layers to it. One is not everybody gets there for the same reason. And this is why it's very important to understand individual genetics and what the risk, like what drives you there. It's not the same for everybody. Like for you, serotonin. For me, it's more dopamine. I can't experience pleasure. My ability to actually experience the wow factor of things. And it clears way too fast. So I have this sort of reward seeking, risk taking behavior. I always need more, more, more, more.

You said that to me too. I had that same thing. I had the same thing.

Okay. Well, no surprise given, you know, we ended up. Right. So now this equals like frying my nervous system with burnout. Right. So for me, that's my priority around my mood. So it's not the same answer for everybody. Some people have bad brain drive, neurotropic factor genetics, which means they don't do a good job of neuroplasticity, which means they don't develop their brain well. Which means when they experience things that are a big deal, it has way too much weight and meaning to them. So that may be the challenge is that everything that's going on feels like a. It's like driving a drama queen response. Right. So crying or spilled milk. So that's step one is like, who am I and why am I feeling this way? It's not the same path for everybody.

So know why first?

Yeah, no, why first? And that's the whole point of genetics is not again, not treating the symptom of. I'm in fighter. Because you could, you could spend the next 20 years and talk therapy with a therapist and never fix it. Literally. Right.

What about external supplements that will shut that down. So like, like I'll know my brain will crave like CBD oil or you know, or and you actually told me to get 85 HTP, which I did. So like, things like that. What. How is that helpful when we're adding stuff like that in to shut that down? Or is that hurting us more by. Not like I want to understand that too.

Yeah. So there's, there's regulating the nervous system, which is just in, in practice incorporating into your day. The reality that your nervous system needs maintenance, which is not, you know, grandma's reality wasn't like that. It wasn't something people needed to do. We now need to do it. The overload of stimulation, we need it. So whether it's breath work, sauna, yoga, you know, meditation, whatever you're doing, the best way to rinse cortisol off of your cells is meditation. There's nothing that works better than that. You know, exercise, I would say is number two. You're the best antidepressant medication that exists today. Works 40% of the time. Exercise works 80% of the time on.

Depression, which I think is why a lot of us with that brain crave exercising and movement. Like we don't sit well. We. It's like that's like part of our self doing there. So. And meditation. When I, when he told me that, I was like, oh, I tried him, it's not my thing. And he what, what you said to me was, you find a way that works for you. So like, I know like with me, what I figured out will work for me. And I think we're also unique here. But like I can do more like a brain tap with a vibro bed kind of thing like that. Or even for me, this isn't like traditional meditation, but walking with, with, with bilateral beat music or something like just, you have to, it's finding our way, whatever that means for you to be in that state. So it doesn't mean sitting there going without any music or anything. It's. Right. That's kind of what you said to me, right?

Yeah. For some people that is the way. And given your wiring this extreme reward seeking behavior have this extreme propensity to detail. Your brain can't empty itself, your brain can't stop thinking, it can't stop ruminating with the inner voice. Right. No, you need something to do. And that something to do can be a form of meditation, which is disconnect. I'm not in. It's, it's not reward seeking time, it's recharge time. Right. Now your question about supplements, the two things I was saying, one was, you know, regulate your nervous system. But yes, there are supplements for each one of the neurochemicals. And this is why self discovery is so important as opposed to everybody heard you say 5 HTP, they might all go running wifi.

Yeah, I don't want you to do that. Don't, don't do that right now. This is individualized and we're going to talk about how we can individualize in a few minutes.

But, and that's, that's the whole point is that there, there unique individual answer for everybody. And this is why so many people will tell you, especially when it comes to the brain, that I tried, it didn't work. I tried, it didn't work. I tried, it didn't work because that person doesn't have that. Even though the symptom looks the same.

Right.

The path that they got there from the specific neurochemical that made them feel that way was very different. And so if you hyper focus on what you actually need, then it's like wow, this worked amazing.

It's, it's, and I'm guilty of this too. Any of us that can relate to that, like dopamine seeking, cortisol, whatever, we are typically a quick start personality. So you hear one thing and you go get it. Like you're like I heard that, that I'll do that. But what I've really been learning from Cash is we really do need to customize a lot more. Like there are some general things that work for everyone. Like you can say eat unprocessed food, get some sunlight, move your body. Like those are general. But then how you're doing each thing is going to affect us very differently. So it, and so is it when that personality, the fighter flight personality has a tendency to be, get, be addicted to things. Whether that's, that's phone or whatever it is. How when you, when we're there, where people are aware of that, that can create more stress that you, you have, you know, you have this problem with that and you have this more stress or and then you hear you say we'll go meditate or go do that and then they don't know how to do that and it creates more stress. What do you advise that person to do that, that in itself just telling them what they need to do is going to create a bigger problem. Do you know what? I get what I'm asking.

And I can tell you which genetic profile usually experiences that it's the opposite of you and me where there's too much dopamine. So that person is experiencing, they're living in what we call Contentment because it's so easy for them to experience satisfaction that it's hard to feel motivated to do anything because nothing feels important. And that person, often a great artist, a great researcher, they're good at binging, they're good at doing things for a long time. Yeah, they're very bad at doing things that they don't want to do. They might say yeah, nod their head, no problem, but they're going to procrastinate, procrastinate, procrastinate. And then eventually create the anxiety of having to do something that was taking a week in two hours. Right. So this very common outcome of that profile and so really what that person needs is structure. It's not about a supplement, it's not about a pill. What they need is, is that profile. Your profile, my profile. We respond to outcome. Show me the shiny object and I will find my path. I'll go chase it. Right. The other profile that we're talking about responds to clear instruction with a deadline. The outcome isn't as important as the instruction and the deadline because I need to know what to do when it's due and then I'll figure out how to do it. So what they need to do is take that outcome with the clear instruction and break it into micro which is Friday at 5pm the report is due. That means Monday at 5pm the research is due. Tuesday at 5pm the imagery and the formatting is due Wednesday at 5pm Appear reviewing it and then so on and so on. Right. Because if they give themselves the instruction and deadline, it becomes so much easier to do the thing that they procrastinate which causes them the anxiety and they don't realize the anxiety is just because they actually have a very healthy state which is contentment. I'm good, I'm satisfied, I don't need it. Right. And when you give them a low that they don't want anxiety.

Okay, when you, you mentioned a little bit earlier that our genetics also will determine the best way to eat for us. And I know like me, you agree that unprocessed natural real food is, is key, but you have some. They're not just your opinions, they're science backed based on DNA and genetics. Why some people would thrive more of as a carnivore or keto or vegetarian or a vegan. Can you talk little bit about that and like what you typically see and when with genetics. I've also heard people say like a certain blood type would do that. Is there any correlation there? Help us understand a little bit more about food there.

So what we've seen is that these different types of foods need different enzymes to break them down. And we can predict with your genes how you produce these various sorts of enzymes. And so I've seen many people who, you know, have for example, a completely wrecked broken gut and they're doing all the stuff around gut repair and supplements and fasting, but their gut still just won't get repaired. So there's certain enzymes you need to break down plant foods like kale and spinach and broccoli, et cetera. And those foods happen to be very rich in oxalates. Oxalates are, you know, oxalic acid is found in certain foods. It forms this little glass crystal. If you don't do a good job breaking those foods down, that also means that you're exposed to the oxalate for a lot longer, which will completely destroy your gut. And so it kind of speaks to oxalate intolerance. But these people don't do well as vegans. Right, right. They also, some people don't do well utilizing plant proteins, beans, lentils, chickpeas, etc, the enzymes required to break them down get the value that you're supposed to get. Don't do it. And so bloated, gassy, losing muscle mass, you know, skin doesn't look the same. All that happens within a year or so, sometimes months. But the same is to be said of any diet. Now there are people that thrive. There's some people where I literally look at their DNA and say, you would do well as a vegan.

I think you told me I was that warrior profile, Warrior is more meat based type of thing. Was that? Yeah, that's what I thought. I also believe that I think us, all of us, everybody listening, when we are in our healthiest state, when we are doing the things that we, the best that we can to be our healthiest state, we intuitively feel and know a lot of these things that our genetics are showing us. Like for example, if you know, you feel better thriving eating a certain way, that, that intuitively is really important because I do think there's a connection there. And is that, am I crazy to say that Cash. But I think there's a connection between what we believe and, and like innately too, remember?

So you asked me earlier, I didn't, didn't answer your question because we just kept ripping back and forth which was you said, so does it affect your d when people have, when they're in a bad state or their mood is off, etc. The truth is yes. When you are in a state of love with a clear intention. Think about sense of purpose. I feel passion because I love what I'm doing and I have a good intention about it. There's about a 30% up regulation in your genetic capacity, meaning your genes do a better job. And the beneficial genes, the detox genes, the hormone genes, the neurochemical genes. When you're in a state of fear, anger, disappointment, etc, all the bad stuff, there's about a 30% down regulation in your genes because your body starts to deprioritize thriving and recovery and it starts to prioritize what it thinks again is battle fighting recovery as opposed to sorry, acute injury versus constant recovery. Right. So there is a, there's truth to your genes get affected. Now your DNA is also a communication tool. And this is where it doesn't get spoken, not so much, but there's literal. DNA is a physical structure. There's signaling sites on your DNA that allow your body and your cells to communicate. Your mitochondria are also by the way, communication tools. We think of them as energy devices, which they are, they produce energy, but they also are surveying the environment around you and communicating. You know how you can kind of sense somebody's coming up behind you, right?

Yes.

You don't have eyes behind your head, but you know they're there. That's your mitochondria literally serving and telling your neurology. Turn around, there's something going on.

Yes.

That's how these senses work. There's actual wow to prove it. All right, so why to your point, the healthier you get, the less your DNA is oxidized. The last your DNA is oxidized as a physical structure, the better it can actually communicate. The better it communicate, the healthier you get. So it becomes a massive snowball forward and you find these people that are all of a sudden yogis that are floating in the sky that feel connected to the. Where did that come from? Because there's quite literally an elevation in your cellular signaling in your intercellular communication and outside. Right. And you start to feel like I intuitively know.

Yes.

That intuition, remember you have, have quite literally brain cells in your gut, that intuition that we experience. And for every one signal that your brain sends down to your stomach, your stomach sends eight signals back up. So your, your instinct has eight times more influence over what your brain believes to be true than your conscious words.

That expression, a gut instinct, that's where that comes from.

That's a whole real thing. You have brain cells that line your gut wall that, that the instinct you feel is a form of thought that through your vagus nerve is being sent up to your brain so your brain knows what's going on. And the healthier you are and the more you are aligned with your having habits aligned with your DNA, the healthier DNA becomes. And this signaling communication becomes healthier. And then you feel like you have intuition.

Wow. Wow. It makes total sense. See, you all want to. Every time I talk to Cash, I feel like I'm talking to a psychic, literally. Because this is really brilliant what you figured out. Now I want to just kind of warn everybody of a few things. It is very tempting just to say I want to go get my own DNA testing or my own genetic testing. The interpretation matters big time. It matters. I'll know. I'll tell you. I've had four different tests over my lifetime for DNA and interpretation has been different many times. It wasn't until I learned your method like that it all made sense to me. Like before I was like, this doesn't really make sense. I don't really get that. I would just equate it to oh yeah, that makes sense. Someone in my family died of that or. But I didn't really understand what I could change here. So this is important because we thought about like we could just link to you guys getting a DNA test. I don't think we'd be doing you a the ideal service from that because there's a lot more explanation that goes with that. So what I want to invite you all to and I asked Cash beforehand if we can do this because I have so many more questions I want to ask and I know you all do too. We are going to host a live workshop, like a webinar type workshop on April 9th. On April 9th. And I'm going to invite you to it. Now this is literally free. You're going to get a lot of great information.

But.

But in that session, not only is he going to teach you a bunch of information, we are going to share how you can actually get your own DNA testing and learn how to interpret and go deeper here so you'll have an opportunity for all of that. Which is going to be way better than just going buying some random test or just asking your doctor to get it for you because then you're really leaving it up to. It's not. It might not serve you the best. I wasted so much money on previous tests that really meant nothing for me. So if that's something you want to attend, I'm going to link that all below in the show notes. And if you're watching on YouTube, it's below. But if you go to midlifeconversations.com forward slash DNA. So midlife conversations.com forward slash DNA. I will be on the class with Cash, but he is going to be teaching. This is his expertise. He'll teach, he will share way deeper than we went today. And he's also going to stay on as long as needed to answer all of your questions. So if you all are like, okay, I resonated with Natalie, or I have my own questions, or why has this not been working? Or how do I avoid this one genetic thing? You. This is gonna be really important. You can get all your questions answered. So we will link all that below. Cash, anything I miss that you want people to know, and why do you want them? Why. Why is this better for them to come to the class versus just, you know, taking this little information today?

Yeah, I think you're right on. I deal with this a lot. Like a lot of pro athletes in, you know, biohacking influencer type people. They're all my sort of. Of direct clients. Like, I'm not a practitioner of any sort, but I interpret in a way that nobody else can because I came from the outside and solid. So I work with a lot of these people and I hear the same story over and over again. I did three or four DNA tests already, didn't learn a damn thing. Right, Exactly. And so it's because the. There's the people that Design, you know, DNA tests are designed by PhDs for PhDs. They're not designed for you and me to be told, here's what's broken and here's how to fix it. That's all we need to know, right? Tell me straightforward, what doesn't work and what do I do about it? And so that requires interpretation because it's also what's going on in your lifestyle. Where do you live? How much sun do you get? What do you eat right? What does your family look like? Do you have mold in your home? Every little consideration makes a difference in terms of what the recommendation should then be. So I do believe, and I've seen it many thousands of times over now, where chronic disease is quite literally optional. Optional?

Yeah.

The pace at which you age is also optional. And I tell you this because I've worked on it myself when I was sick, when I was telling you in the beginning, I was 38 years old and I had five chronic diseases. My biological age was tested as 43. So you can test your biological age through epigenetic expression to know how old you are on the inside. And I was five years older than myself, so that was the big red flag for me to do something. So not only through the work that I've done did I get those five years back. I'm now, by the way, 45 years old. So I've been working on this for. My biological age is now tested as 33.

Wow.

And it's been 33 for three years in a row now.

That's amazing.

I got it back. The lost time. I made up for more, and I reversed time. And I'm not vain and trying to live forever. I just. This is what I do. And I'm going to keep pushing and seeing what else so good.

You know, I didn't even. I didn't even know that I was doing a lot right. And my biological age does show 13, 18 years younger than my. Than my age. So I'm feeling good about that. But what I've really learned from you is just so many other things that could have been headed in a bad direction. So y' all for. And I'm just. I have genetically high cholesterol. I have my whole life, but innately, I knew. I'm like, this is not a bad thing on me because. And I Even to any doctor that said, go on statins, I went and did a coronary artery scan. I went and did it. Clearly, I show I have zero plaque. So to me, I'm like, okay, yeah, if I was getting plaque, if that was happening, I would take this more seriously. But no, I. I see what's happening. I am that stressed individual. My cholesterol is coming out to protect me, like, just like you said. So. So understand. I also realized from doing this work with you why I crave vegetables. So, like, I literally crave vegetables like a brontosaurus. Like, I want raw vegetables. I want. And it's my body naturally looking for antioxidants. I also from you understand why I can't do nad, but I could do urolithin A or I could do polyphenols. I could. But I can't do NAD because of what you explained. And you also really set my mind at ease about a lot of other little genetic markers I had. Like, my whole family has cancers, type 2 diabetes, all of these things. And I see, okay, got it. Have those markers. But lifestyle things are different. So to me, you really empowered me to look at things different. You also really challenged me of why I need to take the stress part seriously, because I've Ignored that thinking, oh, that's a superpower. And Cash flat out said, this will kill you. Like, you literally said, this will kill you if you do not take this seriously and fix it. And you woke me up with this.

That. Yeah. And I see this over and over again. We work with a lot of high performance people thinking that because there's no symptom, things are okay. But this. The symptom is 10 years after the disease started.

Yeah.

And so what we're trying to do is look out into the future, see what's coming, and then take a detour and just avoid it. Right. And that's life extension. That's like, we are genetically designed to live 120 years.

And there are many cities on this planet where people do live. 100, 110, 20 quite regularly. Americans don't.

Yeah.

America. The average life expectancy is 78. And that 78 is also with the assumption that you're in chronic disease. Right. So there's a lot to be said about minor, minor tweaks. Like, the things that you're. That I told you to do aren't crazy. They're just. You're already taking supplements. We're just going to get it right. And then all of a sudden, your story changes that you. You're taking that detour and avoiding problems.

And I just want you to know I did everything you said, except for one thing, and that'll be a later conversation. So I said, you are not taking my hormone replacement. Absolutely not. Not happening.

So.

So we didn't agree on that. But, you know, it's. It's like a. It's like a. You can do most of the things you don't have to do everything to. I said. I said, nope, not taking my estradiol patch off. Not happening. I will. I'll give up five or 10 years.

That's very important because now you're. If you. That's the decision.

Then. Okay, I'm not going to take the advice. I'm not going to change. Now let's go add something to protect you from.

Which I did. He told me, add Deke lucranidate dm. Like, so I. So there's things you could do. So we're not. It's not all extreme. It's like you. You get the information, you make better choices, and then you figure out, what do I need to do to make this. To make this work. Well, Cash, this is fascinating. I can't wait to have our class on April 9, y'. All. April 9. If you look at the link below. You can register for free, save your spot and then show up up move mountains. If you have something else going on, this is a class you're not going to want to miss. I'm excited to go deeper here. It will not be me teaching. I'll be on Cash is going to teach. So it's will be about you guys. And thank you so much Cash for being here today. Thank you.

Pleasure. It's awesome.

Thank you for joining this midlife conversation today. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with friends and family and be sure to tag me on social media. Natalie Jill Fit the biggest thank you you can give me if you love this show is to leave a review and hopefully a nice one at that. Now as a gift, if you do leave me a nice review and screenshot and send it to supportataliejill.com we will happily send you our digital DSR journal as a thank you to advertise on this podcast. Partnerships on this show are done by partnerships by category 3 media group group. To advertise or to inquire about that, reach out to salesadmin at Category three Cat.