438: The Probiotic Myth: Why Your Refrigerated Supplements Aren't Working with Tina Anderson

So 90% of our serotonin, which is our happy hormone, is produced in our gut. All these incredible neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, gaba, which is our calming hormone, all those important hormones are actually being produced in our gut and not in our brain like we thought.

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We've heard that gut health is the key to our true health, but it can get so confusing. Can we repair it all with just food alone? Do we need to be adding in probiotics and how many, how often? And are probiotics alone enough? Do we need prebiotics and postbiotics and do we need to be changing strains of them and trying different brands? And is it true that they have to be refrigerated to work? So many questions. And I thought no one better to ask about this conversation than Tina, who started in the pharmaceutical industry and saw all kinds of things that were interfering with our health. Her and her husband left that whole industry, a very well known executive in the pharmaceutical industry, to start their own company, just thrive because of what they learned and saw going on when it comes to gut health. So today we're going to dive deep into the differences between postbiotics and prebiotics and do we actually need them? Where do we start and how will this affect and change our health? Thank you so much for being here today, Tina.

Thanks so much for having me, Natalie. I'm so excited to chat with you.

Now, let's start with this backstory here because this is interesting. You're an attorney by trade and then you were working in pharmaceutical and you yourself didn't know you were having any gut problems. And here you are now the founder of a company. Focus on that. What happened? How did you get here?

Yeah, it. Isn't it an interesting journey? I was in litigation for many years doing trial work and then just started to have kids. And I decided, you know what, this, these crazy hours were just not conducive to being a mom. And it was Also not a very satisfying job either. And so I decided I was fortunate enough to get a role in a small family pharmaceutical company where I was thinking I was doing something amazing. I'm like, this is great. We're involved in delivering life saving medications to people, making people feel better. But it wasn't long being in that industry that I started to see a lot of the abuses in the industry. I was in the industry with my husband. And one particular story that comes to me that really opened our eyes to everything was we had won this huge bid for one of the largest hospital systems in the country. And the pharmaceutical rep came into my husband's office and said, you will not believe this, but we. He's like, this is great. We won this bid. And now my job, my job now is to go to every doctor in that hospital system and convince them to lower the number, the threshold to prescribe a particular medication for, in other words, prescribing a medication that wasn't necessarily needed, but just to increase sales of that particular medication.

Wait, so you, you saw this firsthand? Like, we hear rumors of this, but you literally saw this firsthand, a pharmaceutical rep telling us.

Yes, exactly. And we were like, this is not, we are not doing our life's work. I mean, this is not what we want to be a part of. And we had kind of, you know, it wasn't like that was probably like the cherry on the cake. You know, it was like we had, we had seen it, we had seen it, but we kind of like look the other way and you're like, oh, that's really not happening. But then we started seeing with our relatives, you know, we had one relative who, you know, she had like a stomach issue. And then she took some medication for that. And then she had joint issues because of the medication she was taking for her stomach. And then she took the medication for her joints and then developed skin rashes. It was like she was on a dozen different medications and never getting any better. And so when this particular incident happened, and we, like my husband and I, are like, we have got to do something that is more in line with who we are. We are very. We've always been really into mindset and, you know, using our minds to create our life. And so we read a lot of Wayne Dyer. We've always read a lot of Wayne Dyer. And we just said, we're not doing our life's work. And so we started, you know, looking into different areas of what we wanted to do. And we were very natural, natural thinkers. Anyway, we lived Pretty naturally, anyway. My parents are both immigrants from Eastern Europe. So it was really. We always. I grew up pretty naturally anyway. And so we decided to dive into the natural health space. And through a lot of prayer and a lot of meditation and being at the right time, right place at the right time, we were actually able to license these very exclusive strains out of London University. And from there, just Thrive was born. We created a whole new category in the probiotic space and never look back.

I'm going to have a lot of questions there and I'm going to get into those in a minute. But I have some questions going back to the pharmaceutical comment because I think some people, they hear that and they fall into these like either two camps. And I don't want it to be about being in this, oh, it's awful or it's good. But I do want to share a little some light on this from. From you, Tina, of course. And then also from my perspective, I was. I came from the medical sales industry. That was where I started for years and years. But Tina and I were talking before I press record that I think people, a lot of people get into those industries, meaning. Well, they think they're helping people. We think they're help. We're helping people. And they're. I'm not saying that all pharmaceuticals are bad. There's definitely some that have saved lives and can change lives and, and all of that. But I do believe, and I saw it firsthand as well, that things get over prescribed for profit. It starts to happen that way. So it may start innocent, where this is helping with an ailment or this. But then it's just the very fact that we have pharmaceutical reps right out there repping and trying to meet quotas on the drugs and sell. It should be an eye opener that, hey, they are literally trying to increase numbers here. And when they say things like we're going to lower the standards of what you can get this prescribed for, I mean that. That is a red flag right there that they're overprescribed.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I feel very strongly that there is a time and a place for pharmaceuticals and I think it's worth repeating because I mean, antibiotics, saf lives. And I would never dispute that. My big thing is that we shouldn't be looking at pharmaceuticals to treat chronic conditions. When someone has a chronic condition, we need to get to the root cause of it. And you just don't see that in the pharmaceutical space. You don't see that in medical schools, and medical schools are being funded by big Pharma. And it's just. There's just so many conflicts out there that it's just, it's compromising what, you know, medical systems are doing to help us get better.

And then what also starts to happen is we start letting insurance dictate treatment or the pharmaceutical dictating treatment. And as you just mentioned, you start one drug and it could lead to symptoms and problems and needing another one. And then it goes on and on.

It's such a domino effect. It's unbelievable. And because that's really what doctors are being taught in medical school. There's not classes on nutrition, there's not classes on root cause diseases and getting to the root cause. Really what they're learning, so much of what they're learning is based on pharmacy, pharmaceuticals and what to treat patients with. And it's just not. Not something I agree with. And I feel like we, our bodies are resilient. Our bot. That's our goal is to make our bodies resilient. And we are trying to. Our bodies are really designed to heal themselves and we just need to give our body the proper tools to heal itself.

Now, I did, I read some, I've read different statistics about midlife women being on a numbers of pharmaceuticals. And I think I read somewhere that the average midlife woman is on like five pharmaceutical prescriptions, which is. And if you look at them of those symptoms are caused by some of those. Those that then create another. For example, if you take something for acid reflux, for example, you might take it for that. But now you could create another issue. Same thing with you create. You take something for blood sugar, you can create another issue. So every time we're adding in a pharmaceutical, we got to look at what is the other thing that that might create.

Absolutely. And I mean the acid reflux example of like proton pump inhibitors and all those things are a great example of something that could be so detrimental. They basically are just treating symptoms. And when you're low, what it's doing is lowering your stomach acid. And your stomach acid is so protective. We want, I mean, people in our space are taking supplements of having more stuff. We want more stomach acid. That's what our goal is. Because when you're diminishing your stomach acid, you're actually creating so many more problems, allowing pathogens to get into your intestines and it's very detrimental. So yes, please don't take those things, please.

But however, if you are taking them right now, don't just Subtly stop listening to what we're going to be sharing and then you can talk with your doctor about it, because I understand. I'll tell you, my mom, for example, she's like, I can't function without them. And now she's been on them for so long that it creates massive heartburn when she doesn't take it. So it's going back and going, do I really need this many? Is there another way I can do natural? But before you just stop any prescriptions, that's not what we're advising here. Just listen in. We have some good information here to understand, to understand more. So you, you saw this happening in the industry and you thought, this is no longer aligned with my values. I've got to do something here. You went all the way to a big jump of creating your own supplement company. Where, where did that idea come from? Was it because you didn't see something else that you liked or where did that come from?

Yeah, well, my husband and I both decided that we wanted to do something in the natural health space. And we. My husband's naturopathic doctor and my husband had been talking for a while about doing something in the space. And he called us into his office and he said, you will of this. But he's like, I know more about the gut than probably, you know, he's like, there's probably five people in the United States that know more about the gut than I do. He's like, I am such an avid, you know, fan of the gut health and I know how important it is. And he said, we were able to get these strains from London University. And he's like, this is like the real deal. This. Most probiotics are dying. These actually survive this journey from the mouth down to the intestines. And he's. So that's kind of what happened. He presented it to us and we were like, okay. And so we took our life savings and we created to just thrive and never look back. You know, it's been. It's been an incredible journey. It's been the hardest journey I've ever been on by far. But it's also been really great because it's. We've been helped so many people. And I just think about, you know, just how important it is to make sure that we are always answering to ourselves. You know, we've never taken on investors. We've. We bootstrapped the company entirely. And it's just been really awesome to know that every product we launch is based on something that either we take or, I mean, I take pretty much every single product we launch. So it's just, it's fun to, to start something from scratch and build it.

So my audience, if they've been listening for a while, they know I'm a huge advocate for gut health. And it was, it totally fixed my own health journey a few years ago. And it was something I was missing. Why was your husband so knowledgeable about gut health? Where did that happen? Was he sick or what came up for him that he became so interested in that?

You know, it was really because of the conversations about with his naturopathic doctor. He would just talk about gut health and how important it was and how it relates to so many aspects of our health. I think we were of the mindset. It was like, oh, yeah, we don't have any digestive issues, so we don't have any gut.

That's what I used to think. Yeah, well, my stomach doesn't hurt. I'm not bloated. So what do you mean?

Like, I didn't understand. But just learning in the education behind it, it was just eye opening that really, it's like it's hard to find anything that's not related to the health or unhealth of our gut gut.

And just to add to that, when you just. Anytime we're adding a pharmaceutical, it is likely not ideal in our gut health. So even if a pharmaceutical is helping you with something that you need, it's also likely hurting your gut. It doesn't mean you shouldn't take it, but we have to be aware of that. For example, antibiotics. If you are my age, I'm 53. If you're in my age range, you likely grew up taking many antibiotics for things. And all of that over time is wreaking havoc on our gut. So even if you don't feel something's going on, we likely have some work to do in. In gu health. Now what a lot of. When people hear about gut health, Tina, a lot of times they just say, oh, well, I just, I just take a prebiotic or I just take a probiotic or I don't even know that they fully know what that means. They just go to the store and they grab a probiotic. Help us with the education here. Like, first of all, what is the difference between a prebiotic, a probiotic, a post? There's so many different terms and what are we actually getting and what are most of these things?

Yeah, I would happy to talk about that. I just was wondering if we could just kind of just fundamentally just talk about gut health in General, Yeah, of course. Because I think it's super important for everyone to understand like gut health. Like we had talked about, people associate gut health with like gas or bloating or acid reflux, diarrhea, constipation, those, all these digestive issues. And those are certainly signs you have some type of gut dysbiosis going on. But what people are just, or what now people are finally starting to understand is that, you know, our mood is directly related to our gut. So 90% of our serotonin, which is our happy hormone, is produced in our gut. All these incredible neurotransmitt, there's like serotonin, dopamine, gaba, which is our calming hormone. All those important hormones are actually being produced in our gut and not in our brain like we thought. So so many of them are, you know, so much of our mood health is directly dictated by the health or unhealth of our gut. We also think of skin issues, you know, rashes, eczema, any type of skin, acne. All of those types of skin conditions are really stemming from something going on in our gut. Autoimmune issues, allergies, those are all signs of a leakiness of the gut. And those are all, you know, situations where we need to be focusing our gut. Even like things like heart disease, cancer, diabetes, all of these types of conditions are really stemming from the health or unhealth of our gut that we want a diverse, healthy microbiome. So our gut, it's so important that we are just focusing when we're talking about our health, particularly when we are in midlife, because we know so many issues start to happen. Women go to the doctor, doctors and they, the doctor and they say, I'm really having a lot more anxiety, I'm having heart palpitations, I'm feeling all these things. Well, you know, they put them on an ssri, they put them on anti anxiety meds and really they're just masking the symptoms. What we need to do is focus on the root cause. And a lot of that has to do with the our gut and how our gut is, you know, helping us or hurting us. And so I always just like to talk about how important it is that it's ground zero when you're talking about your health, that you focus on your gut health. Because I mean, our immune system sets. 70 to 80% of our immune system is found in our gut lining. And you know, so if somebody gets sick all the time, we want to focus on that. And whether or not we are absorbing nutrients properly is really dictated by how healthy and diverse and lush our microbiome is. And so we, we really want to think about that when we're taking all of these vitamins, we're taking vitamins and, you know, like supplements, vitamin C, vitamin D, all these really important nutrients, and we're eating kale or we're eating super healthy things, lots of protein. But when we're eating all those things, if our gut is not health healthy, it's not absorbing those nutrients. So I think that's really important for people to understand. It's not just, oh, I go to the bathroom regularly, I'm fine. But it's, it's like you have to understand the gut is really dictating every aspect of our overall health. It's.

It's truly your second brain. And there's two things you didn't mention, but I want to add to that is a lot of women start hormone replacement, but if you don't have the ideal gut situation, you're not going to process those correctly either, so that it becomes still a masking thing. And then also if you, you, if you have a great healthy gut terrain versus a not so healthy gut terrain, we could eat the same infected, let's say, food. So let's say we have an organic salad that has some kind of some parasite in there. I'm just being extreme here, but somebody who has a fully healthy gut that's not going to survive and thrive in there. But if you have an unhealthy gut that might survive, you would be the one that gets sick or that ends up being a problem. So if we don't have this operating at full function, you're not just opening yourself up to everything you listed, but also infections and also not metabolizing your hormones, correct?

Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. There's something called the estrobolome, and that's like a subset of a microbiome that's within your gut that is metabolizing and detoxing your estrogen. So really, really important that you know, if you're on hrt, if, you know, even if you're going through menopause, perimenopause, menopause, that you are metabolizing your hormones properly and detoxing your hormones properly. So really great point. And yeah, just a really, really great point that. And I, I want to go back to answering your question about the prebiotic, postbiotics and prebiot, prebiotic, probiotic and postbiotics. Yeah.

Because it's not as simple as just going to the store and just Grabbing any probiotic and saying, okay, I'll just take this and I should be fixed, right? It's a lot deeper than that.

Exactly. So if you like, you think of a probiotic as the gardener of the gut. So that's the best way to describe it. So if you have a gardener garden and the garden has been stepped on and trampled on and there's weeds growing all over that garden, and you kind of compare that to your gut and your gut has like pathogenic bacteria that's kind of overgrowing. So you kind of compare those to the weeds in the garden and then you have like good bacteria that's there, but it's not really thriving in your, in your gut. And so go back to the garden. And so in the, in the garden you want to go, you want something to go in there and take care of those, that overgrowth of the weeds in the garden. You want someone to go in there and take care of those plants that have been stepped on, trampled on and help bring them back to life. And so spore based probiotics, those are the, that's the category of probiotics that we work with. And spore based probiotics are that gardener of the gut, they're going in there and they're helping get, they're attaching to this, to the, the soil in the garden, so they attach to the intestinal cell wall in your gut. They're helping get rid of that overgrowth of the, of the, the weeds in the garden. And then they're helping get rid of the, or helping bring back our good bacteria in the gut. So it effective way to help the, you know, in your gut, help our good bacteria and help create diversity in our gut microbiome. The prebiotics are like food for the, for the gut. The problem with many prebiotics are that, so if you want prebiotics to only feed those good bacteria, many prebiotics actually have trouble distinguishing between the weeds and then the good plants. So in your gut they have trouble distinguishing between the pathogenic bacteria and the beneficial bacteria. So prebiotic are really important, but they have to be the right kind of prebiotic because you only want them to target the good bacteria in your gut. You only want them to bring those good plants because otherwise you're going to feed the weeds and the weeds are going to overgrow.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, if we, or if we just use any general prebiotic without understanding what we're doing here, we could make something that's wrong worse interrupting this episode for just a moment because I want to share this for you. If you struggle at all with bloating, cramps or stomach aches, this is a common issue I hear from midlife women especially actually. And I've got a 30 second hack that will improve your gut health. You ready? Get more minerals. Now, you've probably heard about using probiotics to increase good gut bacteria, but did you know that the best gut bacteria, the ones that ease bloating and inflammation, get rid of brain fog and keep you in a fat burning state, all need minerals to work their magic. In fact, a 2020 study found that your gut bacteria need an abundance of calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron, phosphorus and several other minerals to thrive. The trouble is that most of us do not get enough minerals. According to a 2022 report by the CDC, more than 90% of American adults have at least one mineral deficiency. And that lack of minerals, it's affecting your gut, your brain and more. So this is why I love Beam minerals and have them as a show sponsor. They make a liquid supplement that gives you every mineral you need in the right ratios and it's fast absorbing. All you do is you take a little 1 ounce shot of mineral rich liquid every morning and in 30 seconds a day you strengthen your gut bacteria, replenish your mineral stores and because they absorb so quickly, you can literally feel them working. It's like your body and brain are turning back on. You can give beam minerals a try. Head over to www.beamminerals.com and use code Natalie Jill for 20% off your first order.

Yes, yes. And we've seen that over and over again where people will take a prebiotic and the prebiotics have trouble distinguishing between the good bacteria and the bad bacteria. And then you see an overgrowth, even worse overgrowth with pathogens.

And then I guess that makes sense too with pro. Like I think a lot of people, they don't even take prebiotics and they're just throwing in a probiotic and maybe it's not spore based, which I want to understand the difference between spore based and not spore based. But just by throwing in the probiotic, they are just cleaning up, but they're not actually doing anything to change it. Is that. Did I hear you correctly on that?

That? Yeah. Well, with a spore based probiotic, it's the gardener in the gut with other kinds of probiotics, with 95% of the probiotics in the market, they're made up of strains called lactobacillus and bifidobacteria, not important. But just to know that that's like what, 95% of the probiotics on the market, we intentionally did not use those strains because we know they're very sensitive organisms. They'll be killed off in the stomach acid. So the stomach, like we talked about, it's, it has, it's very acidic. It's meant to be the gastric barrier. And what probiotics, most probiotics are killed by the stomach acid. So in that garden analogy, those probiotics, maybe one may land in the garden. And so what it's going to do is maybe plant a couple new plants in that garden. But those types of probiotic strains are not doing anything with overgrowth of the weeds. They're not doing anything with those plants that have been stepped on and trampled on. They just may seed a new plant in there, but they're not going in and making a true change in the garden and not creating diversity where with the spores, what they do in that garden, like I had mentioned, is they actually help, help get rid of that overgrowth of the weeds in the garden. They help bring those plants that have been stepped on, trampled on back to life. And now you've created this lush garden, this lush, diverse garden. In order to have a healthy microbiome, it needs to be diverse. You're not creating diversity by putting one plant or two plants in there, or four plants, five plants. We are like, we're, we're looking at taking our own bacteria that's already belong, that already belongs to us and helping it become more diverse by becoming, becoming alive and thriving in our gut and getting rid of that overgrowth of the pathogenic bacteria. So it's such an effective approach to gut health, and it's why we see such profound results, because we're getting to that root cause of the problem. We're getting to the root cause of getting rid of that overgrowth and helping our good bacteria flourish in our gut.

When you say spore based, what does that mean? And are most, most probiotics not spore based?

Yes. So you're right. Most probiotics are not spore based. And spore based means that it's not like a mushroom spore. It has this endospore shell around itself that makes it very hardy. And when it goes through that stomach acid, it actually stays in their spore form, so it's protected when it's traveling through the gastric system in the stomach. And when it hits the intestines, it takes its spore shell off and that's becomes a live microorganism. And it's. This is when it starts to do its magic. So when we think about. So many people have been taught like oh, in order to be a good probiotic you need to get it in the refrigerator because. Yes, because the idea is to be a probiotic, it needs to be a live microorganism. Sure, that's true. But it needs to be a live microorganism in your intestines, not in the store shelf. And so that's the problem. See most probiotics are. They're in the refrigerated section because, oh, you know it. When you think about it, if a probiotic needs to be in the refrigerator, what. How in the world would it ever survive your body temperature? So it can't even withstand the room temperature of this shelf. How in the world would it survive your body temperature was which is 98.6. Let alone how would it survive that acidic environment in the stomach? And the answer is they don't.

And wait, this is a massive aha moment. I, I feel like we've all been lied to. This is a whole marketing thing. Well, so we've been told yes, they should be in. But you're making sense. So we've been told they have to be refrigerated because it's a lot alive. But you're right. How is that surviving in our body? So yours is more. So what you're talking about is the spore based one. It's more like a seed. So it's coming alive once you, once you. It's in your stomach. So that's what you actually want it to be doing.

Yes, exactly. And, and when you know, our ancestors evolved like they would the. We evolved as hunters and gatherers and we would. They, our ancestors used to eat off the soil. They would eat roots and tubers and they would get these, these soil. The soil, they would be consuming it. Within that soil were these Bacillus strains, these spore and they were meant to be consumed on a regular basis. And they're just very intelligent bacteria. They know that, they know that they're in this, you know, hostile environment in your stomach. So they stay in their spore shell and it's not until they hit the intestines, they take their shell off, they go into their live vegetative cell state and that's when they start to like, they stay there for about 21 to 28 days where most probiotics on the market will just pass through similar to like food does these actually stay there for about 21 to 28 days. And, and I don't want to say that we were lied to. Ne. It's like the new science has evolved and, and we do. People will say, well, I've taken a probiotic and I've gotten some relief. You will, you may feel some symptomatic relief, just like you would with, like, over the counter stuff. You might feel some symptomatic relief, but you're not getting to the root cause. And you'll see such, you know, profound results when you start to get to the root cause of an issue.

Okay, so when people talk about postbiotic, what does that mean?

Yeah, so those are the byproducts of bacteria. So things like butyrate and, and propionate, all these short chain fatty acids. So when you have this healthy gut, you will start to create more postbiotic. So you will increase short chain fatty acid production. There was a study on ours that was like increased short it. When taking these strains, it increased short chain fatty acid production by 30%. So these are all really important compounds for, you know, our, our overall health.

So, okay, can you, can they ever be combined? Is there ever. Could you. Why is there not a pill that's a probiotic and a prebiotic and a postbiotic? Is that, is that a thing or is there a reason that it's not a combination?

Yeah, we don't do it as a combination because they just are different mechanisms. Spores are very difficult to work with in manufacturing settings. So it's not to say that we're not trying to do something like that, but we haven't done it where it's going to work properly. So, yeah, I mean, you could certainly take them obviously all at the same time. There would be no problem. You could, you can even take other probiotic strains at the same time.

Okay. And I'm going to ask you specifically how you take yours correctly, but I do have a question about some other myths I've heard. So the myth about refrigeration, that's totally making sense to me now. So if a bottle says must refrigerate, it probably should be refrigerated. But what you're saying is it's not going to work the same in our body as it is in the refrigerator. So that's an interesting. But we've also heard that you should change your probiotic up frequently because of the different strains. Is that a myth? What is that? Where did that come from?

Yeah, that's definitely a myth. Another one of my Top favorite myths out there. Because you know what? The reason that this myth got started was because we know we need a diverse microbiome. I've said that a couple times. I can't stress enough. I mean, that's undisputed. All experts would agree we need a diverse, lush microbiome. And now, so they're saying, like, let's take one, one probiotic that has 15 different strains for a couple weeks, and then let's take another probiotic that has 15 different strains for another, and let's take another one, you know, a couple months later with 15 different strains. I mean, what that's doing is like envisioning like a pool. Like, think of an in ground pool, and it's filled with quarters in that pool, and you take like 30 or 50 different, like, pennies and you throw it into that pool. I mean, it's not going to make any difference in there. I mean, it's not. You're not changing the diversity. The best way to create diversity is to take the. The strains, the bacteria that already belong to you but maybe aren't thriving in your. And this is how we create diversity is taking. We. We all have a diverse microbiome. It's just that we're not nourishing it. We're not helping it come back to life. It's just, it's been, you know, stepped on and trampled on because of all of the offenders that, you know, this world we live in, that's so offensive to our gut health. And so that our goal integrate diversity is take a probiotic that actually helps get to those good bacteria and help bring them back.

I guess the analogy I'm thinking of is kind of like a desert, because I live in the desert and I'm picturing, like, cactus and dry. And then the one week that it rains and it's healthy, and all of a sudden flowers come up and the palm tree thrive. Like, it's like it gets more lush. So it's almost like we all have that ability in our gut. It's that desert, whatever it is, and we want to bring it back to that rainforest, and we need those nutrients and those things to make that happen.

Exactly.

Can this be done with food? Like, when people say, well, I'm eating fermented food, I'm doing bone broth, I'm doing these things for my gut. Where does that play a role? And is there, like, how much of that food would we have to do to do what a supplement could do?

Yeah, so that's a great question. So I Don't feel strongly that fermented foods are a replacement for a probiotic. I am a huge fan of fermented foods. I consume them regularly because I'm, you know, I know how important gut health is and I do everything in my power to support my gut health. I do know that, like fermented foods, like I said, they, the ferment is very beneficial to our gut health, but they are not a replacement for a probiotic. They aren't for a spore based probiotic because they are going to go and they're going to die. Also, fermented foods are going to die. Just like people will ask us, can you take our strains of just thrive and put it in and ferment? And yes, you could take the strains of just thrive and use it to ferment food. But really the same thing that is going to happen is now you've activated the, you've activated those spores and they're live now. And so they're going to die in the stomach acid again. So you could use it, but it's going to, I wouldn't replace, I would still take the probiotic separately in addition to taking the fermented foods.

All right, I've got some questions now that I'm going to say. Would, I would have said these are dumb questions. But, you know, sometimes I've learned that if I'm thinking it, somebody else might be thinking it too. So I just want, I'm going to ask them. When you're looking at food, then it says contains active live cultures. Active live yogurt. Like, what is that actually mean? And is that what you're saying? It's like basically putting a probiotic in a food or what does that mean? Like when you pick up a yogurt, it says contains active live cultures. What is that?

Well, first of all, you need to look at contains active live cultures at time of manufacture. Most of them will say at time of manufacture. So that's also important to remember. Like, we don't really care if they're alive at time of manufacture. We don't really care if they're alive in the refrigerator. What we care about is that they're live when they get to the intestine. Intestines, which is where a probiotic needs to do its work. So just the definition of a probiotic is it's a live microorganism that when conferred in adequate amounts, confers a benefit onto the host, which is the body. So, okay, dead bacteria is not really providing a benefit to our body. So, yeah, so again, fermented foods are super beneficial. And I would, I don't ever want anyone to listen to this thinking, not to take that or not to eat them because. Yes, but you are not necessarily going to replace a probiotic or what is a base probiotic. But with prebiotics, I will say, you know, you could eat a lot of prebiotic foods and you know, like asparagus, Jerusalem artichoke, I mean, there's lots of prebiotic foods that are probably more readily available. If we were back in our hunter gatherer days, I would say you wouldn't need a probiotic because you're going to eat off the soil and the soil would be teeming with these really beneficial spore bacteria. But of course we know our soil nowadays is, you know, over farmed and contaminated and is deplete of all those important nutrients.

Okay, I've got two more of the dumber questions that I'm going to ask.

Questions. They're great questions.

When we look at fermented food, I understand that it's not a replacement, but it's something that you add in. It gets confusing because why is this like you take sauerkraut or something that's a fermented food and we say that that's healthy, but you take something else that has fermented and it's bad for us, it's spoiled, it's. What's the difference there? And how do they know? Like, why is one food, it goes bad and it's bad for you? The other one, it's the older it is, the better it is for you. That's confusing to people.

Yeah. Like what kinds of foods are you talking about that would go bad?

So let's talk about. You take vegetables. If I just put vegetables in water, obviously they would turn moldy and go bad. But we take carrots and we pickle them and all of a sudden it's a fermented food. So why is one healthy for us and the other one not?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a dumb question at all because I don't really know that I have the answer to it. I mean, I mean, these are just.

Things I think about when I. Because when I hear people make these blanket statements like eat fermented food, I'm like, well, some things are fermented and they're, they would kill us. They're. They'.

Dangerous.

Who decided that this one's healthy and this one's not? Yeah, I really don't know.

I know.

So you don't know.

Yeah.

Inquiring minds want to know. I don't understand that answer. Okay, and then let me ask you about antibiotics now. So we need antibiotics to help us with life threatening problems, but antibiotics is basically the opposite of probiotics. So we are killing everything. What's happening there. And can you, while you're taking an antibiotic and should, should you take a prebiotic and probiotic?

Yes. So great question. And the thing is, we have to remember, like, antibiotics is probably the number one offender to our gut health. There are so many offenders to our gut health. Antibiotics, the glyphosate that's in our food supply, that's sprayed all over our produce, I mean, the environmental toxins, I mean, our gut is like exposed to so many offenders every day. But antibiotics, I'd probably say is like number one on the list. And we have to remember antibiotics are, aren't just, aren't just the antibiotics that we're taking as a capsule, but they're in our animal products. You know, if we're not eating clean, we're eating, we're consuming antibiotics from like our, you know, chickens and meats.

Makes sense. Yeah. So you might not be physically getting a prescription, but you're eating foods that are not antibiotic free. You're getting them.

Exactly. And so what antibiotics do, and which is why they save lives, is you have a path, you have some pathogenic bacteria that's really dangerous in your gut, and you're taking the antibiotic to kill that pathogenic bacteria. And that's so important. That's why they save lives. Lives. But when it's going in there to kill the pathogenic bacteria, it's also completely obliterating the good bacteria in our gut. So like envisioning, like, if you envision like your neighborhood, like your whole, this whole neighborhood and like one house is on fire in the neighborhood and the fire department comes in and just completely destroys like all of the houses because, you know, they get rid of all the houses because there was one house in this neighborhood that had a fire. And so it's, it's like that's what's happening in our gut. It's literally getting rid of all of the beneficial bacteria. And studies have shown that like a single course of clindamycin, which you know is not that crazy of an antibiotic, is like, can wreak havoc on your gut for up to a year longer. So it's super, super important that we are supporting our gut health not only while we're on an antibiotic, but while, you know, months and months after being on antibiotics.

Totally. Yeah. I'm so, I'm so scared of antibiotics. From what I've learned with this, I mean, I used to think back to being a teen or in my early 20s, and when I would take them and I would get a yeast infection and I didn't connect the dots. I mean, obviously you're taking antibiotic, you're killing. Killing off good, everything. So then you get a yeast infection, you take another prescription, which is also hurting your gut. It's like this ongoing thing. I'll know now. And obviously you all listen and don't take advice from me here. I'm just sharing. You know, when I've had surgeries and the doctors preemptively give you an antibiotic, I don't take them. I. What I say is I'm not going to take them. And if I get a sign of an infection, I will immediately start taking it. But just this whole. I'm going to take it just to possibly prevent. I don't personally do that any, because I've learned what it's. Does to me.

Yeah. And I think that's the whole point of trying to just become resilient. That is. Oh, that is literally so much of our mission is just trying to have people become resilient in all the things that you do. But we are going to be faced with things. We're going to be faced with viruses, pathogens, and the point is to try to make our bodies so resilient. And that's the key. And back to the antibiotics. The interesting thing about the antibiotics is that our strains actually could be taken in conjunction with an antibiotic. We've tested this. Most probiotics would be destroyed by the presence of an antibiotic because the antibiotic would go in there and just destroy the antibiotic. The probiotic that's in there. Ours, we've tested them with liver encephalitis patients who are on the strongest antibiotics out there. And our strain survived in the presence of an antibiotic. So with ours, I would say take it with. If you're. If you have to be on an antibiotic, take it at the same time and then take it for months after. And I would even double the dose while you're on the antibiotic.

Let's talk specifically about your probiotic and why you combine it with antioxidants and how often you should take it. And you, you said not only is your spore based, which makes a difference, but you, you said you found some special ingredients and you don't include Certain ingredients that everybody does. How did you come up with what you're actually using it? And how many times a day do you actually take them? How many times should you take them? Give me details. And I've been, I've been taking theirs since I learned about this company and product. And I personally, I mean I'm like a little kid, I like the gummy ones, that's just what I like to do. But I'm just, I'm curious, like what, how did you decide which ingredients to include, not include, and what makes these different and how often do you take them?

Yeah, so it was Dr. Simon cutting out of London University, who is the founder of these strains and it was his suggestion. And the one particular strain that you mentioned was the antioxidant. It's a probiotic strain that is an antioxidant producing strain. And so that's really, really unique because it's actually producing like things like astaxanthin, zeaxanthin, CoQ10. You know, all these really important antioxidants are being produced in the gut where they need to be absorbed. So most antioxidants have a lot of difficulty, you know, being absorbed. And so we're getting, these are actually being produced right at the site of absorption. And they also, that researchers, we did, the researchers at University of North Texas did a double blind human clinical trial on leaky gut and they believe that that antioxidant strain was so key in the leakiness of the healing up, I shouldn't say healing the, that they thought it was so key and find the, the positive results with the leaky gut study because of that antioxidant strain is actually combating oxidative stress and for that leakiness of the gut. So that's a really, really important strain. And so the best way to take it is just to take one capsule at the end of the meal. It's so easy. It's just one capsule at the end of the meal. You could open the capsules and mix it with food for kids that don't like to swallow or give them the gummies or you give them the gummies. People love the gummies. I mean the gummies are really tasty. Yes, they are. They're really tasty.

I know when I got, I'm like, I think this one's for kids, but, but I'm, I like them.

It's not for kids. So many adults have difficulty swallowing and, and they, and sometimes they're just like sick of taking so many supplements.

It's like a Little dessert at the end of my meal. So I'm like, I could have got a little gummy bear.

Exactly. It tastes good and it's good for you.

Now, why is prebiotic a different form? And why is that? Does it matter if it's powder or capsule or how we're taking things?

Yeah, so we offer it in powder and capsule. I love the powder. I also think it tastes good, but my daughter loves. Doesn't love the taste of it. So, you know, I don't know, everybody likes it different. But so it's whatever your preference is, because the capsule is actually four capsules. So that's why we did powder so that people could, you know, just have it. Yeah, just have it. But again, these prebiotic are. Are really targeting the beneficial bacteria, Feeding beneficial bacteria, not the pathogenic bacteria.

So you personally, Tina, you take the pre and the pro with every meal, or you take the pro with every meal and then the pre once a day. How do you do it?

I take the probiotic with my largest meal of the day.

Okay, so just one time. So just one meal. You take it one time.

It's so easy. And it's like. It is. The studies on this product are so profound as far as leakiness of the gut. And then the prebiotic, I do the mix and I just kind of sip it through the day. I.

You, like, put it in your water and just have. Have it in there. Okay.

I just keep it there during the.

Day, but it doesn't matter. Like, you could do it all at one time or you could drink it throughout the day. It doesn't really matter.

Actually would work better if you do it a little bit over time. If you're over time. And if you're taking the capsules, maybe take two in the morning and two later in the day, but with food or without food doesn't matter.

Okay. I have more product questions, but I want to. I don't want to forget the pooping question because this is a big one. Okay. So I've had many different experts on, including my friend Laura Fontero, who I bring on all the time, is my gut health expert. And she's. She really kind of freaked out my audience when she said, you should be pooping the length of your elbow to your wrist every single day. And she said it doesn't matter if it's once a day or three times a day, but this is the length that we need to be. So she really got me tuned into, first and foremost that us women, we could be holding up to £10£10. £10 of that in our bodies every day if we're not going regularly. And if you're not going regularly, clearly you're recycling all this bad bacteria and stuff into your system. What's your perspective on what is actually normal? Like, consistent wise, frequency wise, like what? And does this stuff help with that?

Yeah. No. So I agree with your friend, for sure. I think that's a great, you know, measure to look at. I also think, you know, like, kind of have it look like a sausage, you know, that's, you know, like little pebbles.

We don't be floaters or pebbles or any of that.

Yeah, yeah, nothing like that. And then, you know, know, I would say, like, one to three times a day is a great frequency. I mean, and I think back in the day it was actually more than that. But I think just. I think what's become normal now is like, yeah, one. And I think so many people will think, oh, you know, I poop so much more than my friends do. And it's like, we can't. Like, what's going on right now is not normal. Like, we want. Or it's not optimal. It might be normal, but it's not optimal. So we want optimal. We want it a couple times a day if possible. And just. And yes, I. Our product helps with that. I mean, the probiotic is huge in, you know, regulating our bowel movements and making them healthier. And I. I think I shared with you at the beginning was that I didn't have any digestive issues or so I thought, because I'm like, I go to the bathroom all the time really regular. But then when I started to get the product, it's like, oh, my God. Now I know. It's like you feel. My mom and I talk about this all the time. We're like, we feel so much lighter after. Yes. Because you're just like, okay, now I'm going to the bathroom so much more regularly and just. They're better poops. I mean, they're just better poop. Is there.

Can you overdo this? Like. Like, for example, like, is there. Could you be taking too many probiotics? Like, I mean, I'm going to own up to this. When I first started taking probiotics, it was before I. Even before I knew about yours. And I just started taking them. I was taking one at every meal, and I didn't know. I'm just like, oh, I'll just take them at every meal with my enzymes or whatever it is. And then it felt like I was like a dog I would eat and go, yeah. So is there a danger zone of like, you should not have this many, like, can you overdo probiotics and anyone that shouldn't be taking them?

Yeah, those are great questions. So first I would say, you know, these strains, remember I was talking about, they're very intelligent organisms, so they do something very different in your gut than they're going to do in my gut. And so you really can't. I mean, I've been guilty of taking, like if I'm not feeling well and I'm like, I really want to like pump my immune system. I might take, you know, four or five in a day. Yeah. Generally the most I would suggest people taking is two at the same time.

Okay.

One in the morning, one at night, but two at the same time. Like if you're going to be around, you know, if you're trying to like ramp up, you know, support your immune system. I would take like two at the same time and. Yeah, you wouldn't. I can't think of anybody that shouldn't be on this. I mean, I can't, I cannot think of anybody that shouldn't be on a spore based probiotic. It's the way we evolved. We were meant to consume these strains on a regular basis. We were meant to be supporting our guide, gut health.

So no contraindication. So there's not, there's nobody that's going to say that I have this crazy autoimmune or this or whatever. It's just, you're basically saying it's like food. It's like it's something that we all can add in. It's not going to hurt anything. If anything, it's going to help.

Yeah. In a lot of ways it is like a functional food.

Okay. There's a couple of your products I had not.

Let me try, let me just back up. I always, I mean, of course, like pregnant nursing moms, like, you know, yes, you want to make sure that you ask your doctor, but I mean, it is like the most important time you could be taking care of your microbiome besides midnight is when you're pregnant because you're, you literally are passing your microbiome onto your child through vaginal childbirth. It is, it is when your child is dictating, you know, whether they're going to have the healthy microbiome is whether your mom has a healthy microbiome. Maybe that's when you're inoculated with your microbiome.

So if you're in question, ask, you can ask your doctor. But there should not be an issue. It's like saying, I'm going to eat healthy natural food or I'm going to. There should be. Be an issue.

Right.

There's a couple of your products. I did not try it because I really wanted to ask you about them and I didn't fully understand, like, what's a digestive bitter? What is that? And like, I noticed that you say it supports your natural GLP1 production. Can you explain what that means and what this is for and how you should be using it?

Yes. So kind of back to the way we evolved. We, our ancestors, I mean, have been using, consuming bitters on a regular basis. They, our ancestors would have bitter foods and they have been used in natural herbal remedies as a. Basically as a digestive aid. I mean, they are so supportive of your digestion. And you want to think of the bitters as kind of taking care of your stomach a little bit more and like your small intestine where like the probiotic takes care of all of it, but particularly the large bowel. So digestive bitters are super powerful and we just, we don't eat digest. We don't eat bitter foods anymore. We don't eat, you know. Yeah, I was just trying to think.

What is even an example of a bitter food that we would. I don't, I can't think of anything.

Yeah, like bitter melon, dandelion root, you know, like, we're not eating these. Yeah. And like our, you know, we've. Our food has been engineered to be like, sweet and salty. It's not. The bitter flavor has completely been eliminated. And there are many, you know, Asian cultures to this day and other cultures throughout the world that consume bitters for the sole purpose of digestive health. I mean.

Okay.

And we know that digestive bitters, what they do is they increase our own production of stomach acid, which is super important. As we age, we're losing our stomach acid. And we know our stomach stomach acid is so important and so protective. It also increases digestive bitters, also help increase digest our own digestive enzymes. It also is helping with satiety. So it's helping. Help us produce more of our GLP1s, our natural GLP1s, you know, not that where like obviously the. Over the. Or the prescription Ozempic or whatever. Yeah, they're doing all those things where they, they sit on your GLP1 bridge receptor for a full week. Normally, GLP1s are like 20 minutes. It's. And so now these are sitting there for a Whole week. And they're creating a very unnatural approach to things. So this is a very natural way to support our own GLP1 production.

Okay, I've got some more questions there. Sorry. I want to make sure I'm fully understanding this. So like, so I have been talking a lot about digestive enzymes. I'm a huge fan of digestive enzymes. Can this be taken with digestive enzymes? Is this something you're saying do in place of will it hurt to do with enzymes?

Nope, it won't hurt to do with them. You could absolutely take it at the same time.

Okay.

And I definitely want your mom to try the digestive bitters. For sure. When you mention that.

For sure.

So.

So if you are already taking digestive enzymes, which I do at every meal, like every main meal, you can still do this. Now, what's also interesting, as you said, for occasional gas, bloat and indigestion. So if you're having that upset, I would imagine this is where your first kind of go to.

To for this. Yeah, I, I always say the probiotic is the first go to.

Okay.

I mean it is foundational. I mean, because it's going to support all of the other things that you're doing. Yeah. So I would always have people start with a probiotic. The digestive bitters I would think of as like helping support like the small intestine even more and helping support the stomach even more. So like things like ingestion, the occasional heartburn and. But all of the probiotic will also assist with the. Those things anyway. But it's. The digestive bitters is also going to help with like cravings, particularly sugar cravings, which is really exciting for people. So it's, it's like a. I. You want to look at it, the digestive bitters is like helping more like the stomach and the small intestine, which. The stomach is very overlooked. It's very overworked and it's very overlooked. But of course, the intestines with the probiotic is like paramount number one. We need to focus on. But they are such good companions products.

Okay, I'm going to ask you a little bit of a deeper question here about glp because it's such a hot topic. So glucagon, like peptides. So GLP is like, it's become a trendy topic lately and I want everyone to know GLP is not new. Like our brain, we produce GLPs. Anyway, what happened was as a diabetic remedy, people started using what's now known as Ozempic or these weight loss drugs, they were using that for blood sugar management. It was a diabetes drug. And what they found was people, people were reducing hunger and cravings and releasing weight. So then it got kind of picked up as a weight loss industry thing now where GLP injections and the weight loss drug have helped a number of people. So I'm not dismissing that. It has also gotten a lot of attention in the biohacking world for small microdosing amounts. So the same reason initially a lot of biohackers were doing small amounts of metformin, for example, or even not as not a prescription, but doing berberine to manage blood sugar. The GLP microdosing became popular because it could help manage cravings and blood sugar at very small doses. So now the pendulum's kind of swung this other way where we're looking at how do we just increase our own GLP naturally. So what caught my attention about this is this is one of those supplements that will help increase it naturally. Am I understanding that correctly?

Absolutely, yep, absolutely. That's exactly what it'll.

Okay, so this is why if you, you are struggling with cravings or blood sugar or not having the turn off gene on food, this would be an amazing thing to add and try.

Yes, absolutely. Yes. And I mean we just launched this maybe about a month ago and it's just already. We've seen so many great.

Yeah, I would imagine because it's scary and not everybody wants to jump on the glp, you know, pharmaceutical wagon. But, but there you can't deny the science behind increasing GLP products. So it's, it makes sense that this would be. So if somebody, and I don't know if you know the answer to this, but if somebody is doing glp, should they avoid this or can they take this with it? Do you know if that would hurt or hurt anything? Any advice on that?

Well, it's interesting because it actually could be a great thing to support because obviously you're having trouble with like a lot of issue you have. A lot of people are having like this, these gastric issues with it. So I mean of course I would definitely have to say to ask Dr. About because I'm super familiar with like Ozempic as far as all mechanisms them. So. Yeah.

And I do think on some levels it's being over prescribed at too high of a dose. So I think there's, there's an issue there. But, but if you are, if you're feeling good with what you're doing, it would be something to add before you Add that.

Okay.

And then I've got two other products I just got to ask about just because they caught my attention with two midlife issues. You have one called this is so cool. It's called just calm. It's just. You have one more focus and memory. And I'm laughing because like this is a such a typical midlife thing. Anxiety, not feeling calm and then saying that we're getting forgetful. So what are these and do we all need to be adding them?

Yes. So. Okay. I know. I don't like to overwhelm everybody because I know.

Sorry, I got a lot of questions here.

Yeah, no, no, no. I love the questions. I just don't want someone to think like, oh, you should be taking all of these products and just, just to.

Be transparent, you all. I've been taking their probiotic and prebiotic, but I have not yet tried your digestive bitters, Focus memory. Just come. I was waiting to ask you about them. So I have not personally tried those yet.

Okay. Okay. So yeah, and I think that's the way it's really great to have people start like that is just to start with like the probiotic. Maybe you could add the, just the, the bitters with it. But we have like health coaches on our team and they can talk you through what. Okay, whatever.

To help with what you actually need or don't need.

Yeah, I mean everyone again should be taking. I mean in my opinion the probiotic is a non negotiable because it's like where you start and then like adding the digestive bitters would be just be so helpful. Helpful with like digestion.

Totally.

And all.

I feel like that's the next one I'm gonna add right now. But I wanna, I'm just so curious about the just common focus memory.

So the just calm is super exciting. That is a, it's something called a psychobiotic. So I've been talking about probiotics.

Oh, oh, no pun intended there. Psychobiotic.

Like and I, I did not coin that term. These are hysterical. Out of Europe who came up with this term. But it's called a psychobiotic. And what a psychobiotic is, It's a probiotic strain that actually, actually helps support the gut brain access. So we know that there's this gut brain access. The gut is talking to the brain, the brain is talking to the gut. And we always thought it was like one way and or there was actually for many years no one ever thought there was any connection. But when you think about it, think about when you get like you're really excited about something. What happens? You get butterflies in your stomach or think about, you know, when you're hungry and like you get hangry. It's like it's all of these things. There is very now proven science that we know that there is a connection between our gut and our brain. And our brain is sending signals to gut and the gut sending signals to the brain. So we talked about the probiotic and we know that the probiotic alone will help if there's like an inflammatory response from our gut to our brain. That's one cause of stress and mood disorders. The other cause is when we have external stressors like we get cut off in traffic. We have this list that's too long. Like we're stressed out because there's too much on our list of things to do. The psychobiotic is actually helping bring down our perception of stress. It actually allows us to, it changes our brainwave activity to put us more into that theta wave, like that flow state. So the studies on it are pretty profound and showing how it's calming people down and again kind of getting to that root cause issue and being able to calm ourselves down.

So versus taking kind of like a band aid supplement which like I love CBD oil which would do it after this is actually getting more to the root and fixing it if I'm understanding correct.

Right. Like the ashwagandha to me is like a great supplement but it's like we're not deficient in ashwakanda. You know with this strain it's bifid along 1714. And okay, this researchers did studies on this and found that people who were just those people that just could handle stress so much better had higher levels of Bifidal Longum. 1714.

Okay.

And so this is again getting to the root cause of the issue.

So it's kind, it's totally different but it's kind of like if you're taking five HTP or something, you're like you're going to something that we are making anyway. Versus is adding an outside, outside system. Like we're not, our bodies aren't deficient in C, CBD or THC or even ashwagandha. So that makes sense. So you're just upping what we already have. And then what about the focus and memory one? This is interesting.

Yeah. So focus of memory actually does have some Ashwagandha in there. So these are all ingredients that are just helping with us regrowing our brain cells. I mean, okay, brain cells. I mean we are like so stressed out we're task switching all the time at record levels we are never used to. We didn't evolve that way and our brain cells are just being des of it and so these are like choline is in there. We've got some really important ingredients to go lion's mane, all these things to help support and regrow our brain cells. And, and that's it's. It's been really, really awesome for people too.

I love this. Okay, so full transparency all like I like I mentioned I personally have only been adding in right now probiotic and prebiotic. I was going to but I'm going to gradually just try these others because I'm so curious especially the focus and memory and the just calm. I'll try them separately and have to to report back but so interesting. I thanks for doing this today. I really I had a lot of questions and you've answered a lot. I'm very picky on the supplement companies that I want to take on or even share or dive deeper on. But I really loved your story especially coming from pharmaceutical and having that background there and why you created this. And I I appreciate that and love that. If you all want to try any of these, this is just Thrive Health. So if you go to Midlife Conversations.com Midlife Conversations.com forward/just thrive so Midlife Conversations.com forward slash just thrive it'll redirect to where you can get a discount. You could also use code Natalie Jill just on their site and you'll be able to try and get a discount there and I'll report back on on these other products. But Tina, thank you so much for having this conversation. I know I asked you a million questions so thank you for this.

I love talking about this stuff so thank you so much Natalie. I appreciate it.

Thanks for joining this conversation on Midlife Conversations today. You thank if you found this episode valuable please share it with friends on social media and be sure to tag me and our guests so that we.

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