447: Metabolic Freedom: How to Burn Fat at Any Age with Metabolism Expert Ben Azadi

In. In the US we spend $4.6 trillion on health care every single year.

Wow.

Which would be the fourth largest GDP in the world if it was a GDP. Yet we rank 37amongst countries in terms of health. So we're sicker than ever before and these pharmaceutical companies are richer than ever before.

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Welcome to Midlife Conversations. I'm your host, Natalie Jill, and I'm passionate about having amazing conversations that matter to us midlife women. On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated health topics and breaking them down simply so that we can optimize aging. Together, I share actionable steps to help you thrive in what I believe are our best years to come. Join me as I interview the most inspiring people living their best midlife years and dive into essential topics like hormone changes, health optimization, weight management, blood sugar, emotional well being, relationships, beauty, and so much more.

What if your body isn't broken? It's just been following maybe the wrong instruction manual. Could your metabolism actually speed up with age instead of slowing down? And if you knew how to flip on the right meta metabolic switches, would you? And could you? And what if your fat gain brain fog, hormone chaos. Maybe those are not the actual problems but symptoms of something a lot deeper. Today's guest, Ben Azadi is on a mission to end the metabolic health crisis and help midlife women like us listening in break free from outdated health myths. After he himself released 80 pounds completely rewiring his body, he became a global voice in health, fasting and hormone balance. His latest book, Metabolic Freedom is a much must read for everybody. It's already called a lifeline and we're going to unpack a lot of this today with some common questions that I know you have navigating midlife. Thank you so much, Ben for being here.

It's an honor to be here with you, Natalie and your ladies. We're going to have an amazing life changing time today. I'm excited for it.

I can't wait for this. Okay, Ben, I got to start with your story because it's seldom I really want to start with someone's story, but I've got to hear yours because 80 pounds is not a small feat and this is something that you truly navigated becoming your own health detective. Can you take us through that story and what you thought before you entered that journey?

Yeah, my, my journey, I struggled with metabolic diseases like unfortunately, so many people out there. And for most of my life, I was obese. That is not a understatement. Excuse me, an overstatement. That is the fact. I was actually physically obese as a kid. I ate a standard American diet. I had bad behaviors. I was a really bad teenager. I did drugs, I sold drugs. I was addicted to drugs and video games and sugar, toxic relationships. And When I was 23 years old, back in 2007, I was rock bottom. I was going through a really difficult breakup. At this time, I weighed 250 pounds. I was physically and also mentally obese. I was depressed. And that, that is an understatement. I was actually on the Internet looking for ways to end my life. I was exploring that because I was in so much pain. And I kept thinking about my mom. Every time I explored taking my life, I kept thinking about, man, if you did that, like your mom would just be so devastated. And I, I love my mom. She's my, my superhero. And I, I didn't want to cause that devastation for her. So it's the only Reason I didn't take my life. And I knew I had to figure things out. I was blaming everybody for my problems. My slow metabolism, my enabling family members, my bad genetics. None of that served me. None of that serves you. Your excuses don't serve you. And I finally took responsibility. It didn't just happen like, oh my gosh, I'm responsible, let's do this. It was me reading books. I started with self development books. I started with Dr. Wayne Dyer, Bob Proctor, Tony Robbins, Lisa Nichols, Zig Ziglar, these incredible authors that really helped me take ownership and responsibility. And the amazing thing about taking ownership is that it's the first step towards great change. So for me, nine months after that decision to take responsibility, I went from being 250 pounds at my highest to 170 pounds. I went from 34% body fat at my highest to as low as 6% body fat. Completely changed my physical appearance. And yes, I had six pack abs, which is, which is great for some people. But more important than that, I achieved a mental six pack in my depression, suicidal thoughts and all the issues I was dealing with. Mental illness started to subside and go away. And you know, Natalie, that was 17 years ago. I, I've kept the weight off. I was a personal trainer, which I know you could appreciate for many years. I had a gym here in Miami for many years and now I am writing books and I'm on your wonderful podcast, Ben.

I got, I got questions because it's interesting when someone was once fit and I tell this to my women all the time, if they were once fit and they kind of lose their way in midlife, sometimes it's a little bit easier to get back to it because they have a vision of what it was like to be once fit. So, so if someone's never fit, it gets a lot more challenging because they don't have a vision. So when I say, you know, get clear on what you want to create for yourself, it's really hard for them to imagine it now. You were like never fit. It sounds like you had this childhood struggle with weight and genetics and all of these things. So just reading a book or just starting in that and making that decision, that couldn't have been easy. So I know you're telling it like it just kind of happened, but how did you get yourself like that first initial thought process of like, you know what, I've got to go start changing my attitude here because that's very uncomfortable. I would imagine, like you've learned a new one way your whole Life.

Yeah, it's a good point, exactly right. I was never fit. I was always unhealthy. So this is a new completely. It's a paradigm shift for me. And the self image played a big role, the way I viewed myself. Because the way I viewed myself, the self image I had of myself, was an overweight and obese person. So I made a conscious decision to take responsibility and change my diet and move my body. But I noticed I kept finding ways to sabotage myself to match the self image of an overweight person. And I think a lot of ladies do this. They identify with their disease, their diagnosis, their autoimmune, their being overweight, whatever it is. And we might make that conscious decision to change, like I did. But if we don't work on the self image, we will find a way to. To course correct, essentially sabotage ourselves to match that self image. So I kept finding a way to eat the donuts, to eat the cookies, to gain the way back to match the self image. I had to replace the old self image with a new self image of a healthy, lean person. And it wasn't until I did that that I was able to break through and make sustainable changes.

Do you remember that first, and this is. I know this is a kind of a deeper question, but do you remember that first moment when you had that realization? Because I think people especially that are overweight and have always struggled, they're not dumb. Like, Right. You know, like you've heard this, like you had heard before about change your mind or change your attitude. But what was like the moment that. That it really kind of sunk in and made a difference? Because I think it's not like you were walking around naive like you'd never heard this, but how did that connection actually change?

It was getting some momentum, making a. I call it a tweak a week, and just get stacking some habits, some positive habits, and not doing all these changes all at once. I was just making a tweak, mastering that tweak, getting some momentum, and then adding something else to that routine. And as I gained more momentum, I gained more confidence. My self image continued to change. And, you know, the rest is really history. I know I wrap it up in a short story, but that's really how it went. It wasn't in a day, it happened over time, but it was the reprogramming of the subconscious mind. And that's how we make lasting changes. And I can tell you one thing that I did and one thing that I still do, and I talk about this in the New book is to literally write down that new image of yourself on a card. I have this here that I have my current self image of myself, and I repeat it every day in the morning before bed. It's this new idea that I need to read enough times that you need to read enough times for those listening and watching to replace the old image of yourself that is not serving you with this new idea. And as you do it consistently, then you replace that in the subconscious mind, and then you start to become essentially unstoppable.

So good. So good. You know anyone I interview that I've been. That I've interviewed even before I had a podcast that has had a successful transformation. They say the same things in different ways. They made a decision and they got clear on their vision. And when I teach fat loss, I talk about decision, vision, and then action. But somehow when people are stuck, they don't want to hear about decision and vision. But I want to just point out that literally you just said those things. And I think anyone that's had a transformation does start with that foundation. It's just. It's just. So if you're listening and you're like, I haven't had a transformation. I'm doing all the things I'm going to say. You got to start with those two things. It's like you just. You literally just laid it out. That's what you did with your card, with everything.

Yeah. Well said. I love that you teach that to your ladies. It's the truth. And you might not see the results physically in your physical world right away, but there's an unseen world changing. I like the way Price Pritchard mentioned it in his book called U Squared. He said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Oh, so good. Isn't that good?

So good.

We've been brainwashed, Natalie, to believe that. When I see it, then I'll believe it.

Yes.

It's not the way it works.

Gotta believe it and then you'll see it.

Exactly. We believe it, then we see it. So you might not see physical changes happening yet, but there are things happening in this unseen world. So just remember that. You gotta have the faith. And the interesting thing about faith and fear, it's the same thing. It's both. Is demanding you to put energy into something you cannot see. Why don't you choose the positive outcome?

So we're going to get into some really specific tactical things. But I'm glad we started there because I don't love when people just skip to the tactical stuff. Because if you don't have that foundation. It doesn't matter. Like, you could. You could. You can rattle off the best tips ever, which you do in your book. I'm going to get into some of them, but if you do not change that piece first, it's like building a house on sinking sand. I mean, it's just.

It's going to collapse.

Okay, so let's talk into. I'm going to get into some mythbusters here, because you really just call them right out. And I want to. Let's. Let's start with some of the ones that are the most controversial. Okay. Are you. Are you down with it?

I'm down. Let's go. Let's cross those myths.

Let's talk about calories in and calories out. Why is that a scam?

A scam? Yeah. You know, it's so deceptive, isn't it? Because when you cut your calories and either exercise more, just put yourself in a deficit. Most people, even women, might lose some weight in the beginning. It does work short term for some people, but never long term. It. It's actually doing a lot of destruction at a. A metabolic level. Because first of all, the premise behind cutting calories and being in a deficit to lose weight, the. The premise is this. I need to get you to lose weight in order for you to be healthy. That's the exact opposite. For. In terms of how the metabolism works, meaning we don't lose weight to get healthy. We get healthy to lose weight. And as a matter of fact, if you're overweight right now, like I was, you don't have a weight problem. I never had a weight problem. There's no such thing as a weight problem. It's a weight symptom. The real problem is hormones and inflammation. So by focusing on calories, it's another way to treat the symptom. Another conventional method that doesn't work. It has failed us time after time. The metabolism is not a bank account or a math equation. It's a very complex chemistry lab. So when you start to get healthy, the weight starts to come off, and it stays off. And in the book Metabolic Freedom, I referenced two studies. One study looked at the Biggest Loser TV contestants. For those who don't remember, this was a TV show in the U.S. it was very popular many years ago where they took these overweight, obese individuals, put them in a calorie deficit, they lost a ton of weight. They celebrated them on this final episode. This study looked at 14 of those contestants after the show ended, and it showed that 13 out of the 14 contestants gained all the weight back, and a portion of them gained even more weight than when prior to beginning the show. And they looked at their hormones, and their hormones tanked. Their ghrelin, their hunger hormone was through the roof. Their satiety hormone, leptin, had plummeted. Because you cannot just outsmart the metabolism. Eventually the calories coming in, the metabolism will match and it'll slow down to match that. You could only cut so much, and most people think, I just need to cut more or exercise more. Do a combination of more of both, and it might work short term again. And then you plateau. It's this yo, yo, vicious cycle of never ending weight loss, weight gain, weight loss, weight gain. And just one more study that I referenced showed how important the gut microbiome plays with fat loss. And it looked at two groups of obese individuals and they. One group was given fecal microbial transplants from Lean Donor, so they repopulated their gut bacteria with healthy bacteria. The other obese group was not given that fmt. And the group that got the fecal microbial transplant started losing weight with the calories stayed the same. So it's a distraction. We need to focus on what really matters, which is hormones and inflammation.

Okay, I'm going to get into hormones and inflammation in a minute, but I want to. I want to go a little bit deeper on the calorie thing. And I'm sorry, I'm going to be nitpick here because I. This is. I agree with you on everything you said about calories. And I know the questions that people start saying. And this happened just actually with a good friend of mine where she's an expert and she looks amazing, but she's still really into the calorie thing. And she said, well, what? You have to create a deficit. So what do you say to that? Because do you believe you have to create a deficit in your body in your calories expenditure or consuming to lose weight?

I've seen people increase their calories by increasing whole foods, protein and fat, and decreasing carbs. And even though there was a surplus in their calories, lose weight, because it was the inflammation and the hormones that determine the fat loss, not necessarily the calorie input. So. Good.

That's a mic drop right there, Ben. Thank you. That's what I wanted you to. That's exactly what I was hoping you were gonna go. So that's good truth.

You know, it's. It's the calories in versus calories out. It does people disservice it does your ladies a big disservice. I know you don't teach that, which. I love, that we're aligned here, but it's a distraction. And I did it for many years, and I realized I was doing people a disservice. Yeah, we've been there, right?

No, And I will tell you, I'm down £19 in the last two years, and I didn't change one thing on my diet. It was nothing. It was everything else. So it. It's. I don't buy the deficit thing. Yeah. And I. And it's hard because people, they almost will discredit a conversation because you're saying, I don't buy it. So you have to almost, like, meet them where they're at and then explain.

Yeah, no, exactly. It's about the quality of the calories, not the quantity. Bottom line, calories matter. Yeah. We're not denying calories existence. They matter. But it's about the quality, not the quantity of those calories.

Totally makes sense. Okay, let's dive into some other, like, hot topics here. Let's talk about fasting and what you define as sensible fasting or not sensible. Where does it play a role? Should everybody be doing this? And how do you define it? Like. Like somebody will say, intermittent fasting is eating all your food in a certain amount and not the other time. What's that time to you? Or is it skipping days? Like, help us understand that.

Yeah, there's different ways to do it. All of that is fasting. It's all technically fasting. There's. There's intermittent fasting, which. Let's say 16 hours, you're fasted, which means you just have water, and then eight hours, you have your eating window where you have all your calories, similar to the example you gave. And then there's more, like, extensive fasting, which are days. It has its place. But it's important to understand that fasting is a stress to the body. And that doesn't mean it's bad for you. It doesn't mean stress is bad for you, as long as you adapt to the stress. How do you know if you're adapting to the stress? Well, there's a few things you could look at here. And for women, you are definitely practicing fasting differently than us men. That's important to understand. And women who have a menstrual cycle also practice fasting differently than women who are postmenopausal. So there's customization here.

Okay.

And I do hear some health experts say women should never fast because fasting is stressful for women's hormones. I think that's similar to saying women should never exercise because exercise is stressful for women's hormones. It's not the, the stress that's bad, it's if it's too much. So we want to know, we want to pay attention to the body. We want to see if we're adapting to that stress. If you are stressed out right now, meaning you have a lot of stress in your life, mental stress, work stress, relationship stress, and then you throw in a 24 hour fast. Probably not a good idea, probably will be too much stress for your body to adapt to. But the best way to know if you're adapting to the stress is to pay attention to two things.

Okay?

The first thing is your sleep. Are you getting good sleep? And if you fast, does it interfere with your sleep? Is your sleep sacrifice? Are you waking up feeling more groggy? That could be a sign that you did too much fasting, too much stress. The second thing would be looking at your heart rate variability. Your heart rate variability is a good gauge for your nervous system. And you find your average. I use an OURA ring to track mine. And you find your average after seven days or so of looking at your hrv. And if you have a day where you do an 18 hour fast and you see your HRV drop, it signaled that stress was too much for your body to adapt to. But I have to say all of that and say this. When you find your sweet spot for fasting ladies, it is transformational. It's incredible for the body, it's incredible for the brain. It's incredible for your gut health. It's incredible for building muscle when you do it the right way. So you have to find your right, what's called your hormetic zone. And I talk about that in the book.

So, Ben, one thing I say, and correct me if you think differently too, I'm always up for having a new perspective. But I think another thing that sort of has gone wrong with midlife women is a lot of US in the 90s, we were taught eat every few hours. Like, keep eating every few hours. And if you don't eat every few hours, your body's gonna eat its own muscle. Like, I don't know if you remember those conversations, but that's like, right? And to me, if you, every time you're eating, you're secreting insulin. If you're secreting insulin, you're not in fat burning mode. So just the logic behind it. If we are eating every few eight Hours. And we're grazing. Think of a cow grazing. We're going to have a cow body. I mean, I'm just. That's just. If you give it the space and you're not doing that, you're going to not be secreting insulin and you're going to give your body a break. So to me, it's almost like. Am I oversimplifying it there?

No, you're spot on. I like the idea that you just said when you're cow grazing, you're going to. You're going to look like a cow. Yeah, that's true. You're going to gain weight. Insulin will spike your. Well, glucose will spike. Insulin, you'll store fat. We're not designed to graze, so you're correct. And a simple thing, if you're brand new to this in terms of fasting, is to start with three meals a day and keep it within 12 hours. Yeah. And then you could start increasing that fasting window from 12 hours to 13 to 14 and see how your body adapts to it. But I'm with you. The whole grazing, eating every two to three hours, it's one of the fastest ways to age yourself and create inflammation and destroy your gut. I'm not a fan of that approach.

Yeah. And I think it. And honestly, I think it came kind of from the bodybuilding world because if you think about, like, trying to put on muscle that made sense, like you've got. You can only process a certain amount of protein. So it's like that's, I think, where it came from. It just somehow moved to mainstream and it just got off track. When you talk about eating frequently ages you rapidly. You just said it again. Can you explain that?

Yeah, there's a couple things. So there's something called the hay flick limit. The Hayflick limit shows that your cells that we have inside of the body could only duplicate a certain amount of times before it can no longer duplicate. And then it goes rogue. It turns into a what's called a senescent zombie cell, which then starts to infect other cells around it and it leads to cancer and other diseases like autoimmune disease, especially when they're in the immune system. And when you're constantly spiking glucose and insulin, as you just mentioned, through grazing and processed carbohydrates, you reach that Hayflick limit much faster. So you start to develop these zombie cells, essentially. That's one way. The second thing that happens is when you're constantly spiking glucose and insulin glucose, when it's elevated chronically through grazing starts to deplete certain things in your body, like nitric oxide. Nitric oxide is important for something called vasodilation, the opening of your blood vessels. And when you restrict or deplete nitric oxide from grazing and high blood sugar levels, then you create vasoconstriction where the arteries narrow. Then your heart has to pump harder, and that's what high blood pressure is, which is one of the leading causes to heart disease. So that is what's happening. It's not the salt, it's the sugar that's causing high blood pressure. And the third thing here, if you want to look good in terms of your complexion, you want to have good amount of collagen. Sugar is going to strip collagen away from your skin, your tissues, and it's going to age you in terms of the esthetics, and nobody wants that. So those are the three ways it ages you.

If you've listened to my podcast for any amount of time, you know, there's been lots of guests and lots of talks where we've chatted about what to eat, getting enough protein, eating healthy, the importance of it, why we want to eat organic. But I want to share that as we age, it's not just what we eat, it's what we digest. Even if we eat super healthy, clean, organic food, we can still not have the best digestion. You see, our natural ability to digest food declines with age. This is because your body produces fewer enzymes, which are the proteins responsible for digesting food. And when you have fewer enzymes, this means more difficulty digesting our food. So even organic, healthy, or what you think are perfect foods won't provide enough enzymes to properly digest them. So this is especially true if you cook your food, which most of us do, because cooking kills the enzymes. So if you've ever wondered why you might have digestion problems even after having a healthy meal, it's because your body just can't produce enough of the enzymes to get the job done. So this is where supplementing with high quality enzyme supplements can be a huge help. So I personally use and recommend a specific digestive stack from bio optimizers, which includes their mass Zymes, which is a best in class supplement loaded with full spectrum enzymes for digesting proteins, starches, sugars, fibers and fats. So when you take this enzyme daily, and I personally take them with each meal, and replace the enzymes your body is no longer producing, you're able to eat all sorts of things and digest them quickly without the bloating without the feeling, you know, puffy without the leaky gut issues, all of that. So when you digest your food properly, you're actually getting all of the nutrients. So I've got an exclusive offer for all of my listeners if you go to bioptimizers.com nataliejill again, bioptimizers.com natalieJill you can also use Coupon NatalieJill to save. You'll see my recommended stack which includes the mass times, the hcl and the probiotic. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, you. I want to go a little bit on that. The nitric oxide that you just mentioned, because this is, is, I think that's the reason people mouth tape too, like because they want. Can you help with that connection there? Just because I know this is another topic that's come up recently and I just want to explain that a little bit more. So just go back. You said about nitric oxide. I don't think people are really connecting what that is and if they should be taking it or having their body create it or like. Can you just elaborate a little bit on that? I know that's a little off topic, but I don't want to skip over that part.

Yeah, of course, yeah, I'm happy to. So, yeah. Nitric oxide is one of the most important molecules in the body. It's what's considered a gaseous molecule. It helps cells communicate with other cells. The one of the primary roles is what I said, where you want your arteries to open up and what's called the vasod dilation because that allows blood flow, nutrients and oxygen to deliver to tissues for healing, to lower inflammation, to burn fat and feel good. When you strip nitric oxide through mouth breathing, to your point, high sugar diets, grazing, et cetera, then your, your arteries narrow, your blood vessels narrow. Now your body has a harder time delivering the same nutrients, oxygen and blood flow to tissues. And when that happens in your arteries, the heart has to pump harder to overcompensate, which raises your blood pressure levels.

Okay.

That is the number one cause.

So where did the salt conversation come in? Why did people think salt is connected to this?

Because there were some French scientists in the early 1900s that had six patients. It was a study done on six patients that showed these patients had high blood pressure and they consumed a high sodium diet. And that was the origination, the hypothesis that it's because of the high sodium that led to that. And then everybody just took it and ran with it.

Yeah. And the thing that's so ironic to me is the people that. That don't have a healthy diet and have high blood pressure. So I'm talking not about the ones that have the healthy diet. Those that don't, if they're eating a heavy processed food diet, that's like, the wrong kind of sodium. I mean, we're talking, like, an overabundance of it. But, like, the whole. I'm gonna avoid, like, Himalayan rock salt or, like, that's crazy to me. Like, we need that to stay hydrated. So it's.

It's 100%.

It's wild.

Yeah. So that's a good point, because I'm not referring to table salt here, which is fake salt. I'm referring to real.

Yes.

Sea salt, Himalayan salt, a good quality source of salt. Very different. We actually really need that salt. It's important.

So we'll put the salt theory along with the eating every few hours theory, along with the don't eat eggs for cholesterol. There's a whole bunch of stuff we have to, like, unlearn. Right. That we were. That we learned as, like, these are fact. Which is wild.

So true. Alvin Toffler used to say, the illiterate of the 21st century, it's not those who cannot read and write. It's those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.

Oh, gosh. So true. The unlearning thing. Wow.

Yeah.

Like, I can't tell you how many cholesterol conversations I have to have. It's like when I'm waiting for it to unlearn that, like, this is this. It's just not.

So it's crazy.

No. Shrimp and eggs do not make your high cholesterol. If you still think that. I don't know what to say.

And if you have high cholesterol, it's not necessarily a problem.

It's not even a bad thing. It's not even.

Yeah. Builds all of your hormones, including your sex hormones. Cholesterol does.

That's a whole story there. That's a whole other topic. Okay. I know you are critical of seed oils. I am, too. But you say that they're harmful to cellular health. Can you elaborate there? I think there's a lot of confusion around seed oils. People wonder, does that mean I can't eat seeds? Like, they don't really know what that means. Can you help us understand that?

Yeah. Yeah. So seed oils are a big problem, and it's become more mainstream, which is great. This conversation that seed oils are a problem for us. Seed oil. I speak about cedars in chapter four of the, the book Metabolic Freedom where I get into processed foods and seed oils, falls right into that Cate story. Seed oils are found in 80% of our food supply and they are found at whole food supermarket. The hot food bar has it, it's found at your fancy restaurants. They are really inflammatory. I'll tell you why. When you consume these seed oil. So what are they? They're not actually eating the seeds like pumpkin seeds. I'm not referring to that. It's the extraction process. They're called polyunsaturated fats. In other words, omega 6 fats.

Yep.

And the reason why they're so harmful is because of the way that they're processed. The way that they extract them from seed oils or from seeds. Excuse me, they use high temperatures, they use pressure, they use heat, these chemical agents, they put it in a bottle and then we heat it up. When we fry it and cook with it, they're inflammatory. And studies show that when you consume these seed oils within hours they immediately embed into your cell membranes your body fat. It's called lipid membrane reorganization. I talk about this in the book and it's there for years. Natalie, the half life of these bad oils, these bad fats is 680 days. Which means if you stopped eating them today, and I'll give your audience an entire list in a minute, but when you stop eating them today, two years later, half of them will still be in your body fat, creating inflammation. That's crazy. One more study from Dr. Martin Grootfeld that I put in the book showed when he was looking at french fries cooked in vegetable oil, which is a seed oil, it produced the same amount of what's called aldehydes, which are cancer causing than tobacco cigarettes. The study said one french fry cooked in vegetable oil is equivalent to a tobacco cigarette. Smoked wild is wild. It's insane. So for your ladies, I'm going to give you a list of the eight that you want to avoid and the healthier swaps. Here are the bad seed oils you want to avoid. We have canola oil, cottonseed oil and corn oil. We have sunflower oil, safflower oil and soybean oil. Then we have rice bran oil and grape seed oil. Those are the inflammatory eight that you want to avoid. Instead we want saturated fat. The boogeyman, Right. We want butter, ghee, beef tallow, coconut oil. And then also monounsaturated fats are great too. Like avocado oil and olive oil. Yeah, exactly.

So this gets really confusing for people because some of Them are obvious to people now. Like, we hopefully, you guys know not to have Crisco or not to have canola oil, cottonseed. But where it gets confusing is like, rice bran and grapeseed, because you'll see that in sprouts or whole foods or you'll see that in these natural food stores and in a lot of labeled healthy foods. Why do you think that is? And do you. Do you. Was that, like, an innocent mistake? Like, I'm just trying to understand, like, I understand why canola and cottonseed got. But some of these other ones, like rice and grapeseed, I think people put them in as a health food oil.

Yeah, yeah. The people think it's healthy. Now, there's some caveats here. That's where it's difficult for the average person to understand this. That's why it's important to break this down. I love that we're having this conversation. There's some caveats here because. And some nuances. Grapeseed oil, for example, if that is organic, cold pressed, and not heated, is perfectly healthy for you.

Interesting.

All right. Same thing with sunflower oil, but that's not how we're finding it in these products. It's already processed, it's already heated, and they're touted as being healthy. But the reason why it's still in these foods at these healthy places is because it's cheap. And when they are producing massive amounts of these products at scale, you know, they save a lot of money by. By using these inflammatory oils versus coconut oil or olive oil or avocado oil.

Yeah. And you guys, I don't know if you're not aware, like, restaurants are, like, the worst culprits. So, like, even if you think you're going to a nice restaurant, they are cooking in these oils. So even if you think you're eating healthy, you are not. So I am currently. Ben, I don't know about you. I'm the weirdo that brings my own olive oil to a restaurant.

Oh, I love that you do that.

And then I actually found this app. It's called Seed Oil Scout.

Yeah, it's a great app.

Yeah. Do you use it? And you guys, you can put it in your. Your phone and it just. It's still working out some kinks on this app here, but it's the best one I found. At least that you can. You can look for different restaurants in your area, and I'll give you the green light. If it doesn't, they don't use seed oil or they'll tell you, like, Red, stay away. It's. It's definitely helpful.

Yeah, it's a fantastic app. So what I do. I love that you bring olive oil to the restaurants. Good job. When I go to restaurants, I should have told this to you or gave this to you when I saw you here in Miami. But I use. I have a seed oil allergy card.

That's awesome.

I literally bring to restaurants, and it says, dear Chef, I'm allergic to these oils. Can you use the healthier options? Bring it back to the server. They show me what's safe on the menu, and they. They accommodate. So you could just tell the server you're allergic. That's what I do. And they really pay attention.

I feel like they would be like, incoming pain in the ass because I'm also a celiac, so I'd have to be like, okay, can't. I'm a celiac, and I'm a seed.

You treat them nice. You tip them well. I mean, they're going to accommodate. So it's important. We don't want to. I don't want to take.

Yeah, is true. And you can also just. I mean, I have definitely requested. I'll say, hey, can you please just not use any oil and just cook in butter instead? Or I'll just. I'll just say what I need.

Exactly.

And say. And I also learned recently. I didn't know this either, but, like, olive oil has kind of been given a bad rap too, where if you. We've been told you can't cook olive oil in a high heat, but if it's a good, pure, quality olive oil, you actually can. So there's, like, a lot of unlearning we have to do around oils, too.

Yeah. So there's a lot. Yeah.

So you have a very strong belief when it comes to most medications. And I want to go there for a minute, and I just want to. I want to share that. Those of you listening. He is not. I am not. He is not telling you to stop any medications. I just want to share. We probably have some similar perspectives on just, like the over prescription. Can we talk a little bit about things like medications prescribed for diabetes?

Yeah. Diabetes is a really important topic. Here's why. I mean, I lost my dad to the complications of diabetes back in 2014. So I saw what it did to just destroy his health. And.

And we're talking type 2 diabetes, y'.

All.

Not type 1 juvenile, by the way.

Yeah, yeah, type 2. Exactly. Which is the 90% of them are type 2 in. In the US we spend $4.6 trillion on healthcare every single year.

Wow.

Which would be the fourth largest GDP in the world if it was a GDP. Yet we rank 37amongst countries in terms of health. So we're sicker than ever before. And these pharmaceutical companies are richer than ever before. And one out of every four dollars spent on healthcare is spent on diabetes, primarily type 2 diabetes, which is 100% preventable, 100% reversible. Diabetes medication is treating the symptom, which is the high blood sugar. And it may lower the blood sugar level by causing the body to pee it out or lowering it through metformin, whatever it is. But the condition actually gets worse and the diabetes starts to progress. And it's actually pretty rare to die from diabetes. It's what the diabetes leads to, the cancer, the heart disease, the strokes, et cetera. It's not getting to the cause. When my dad had type 2 diabetes, there was never a discussion about, let's find out how we could reverse it. Let's talk about his lifestyle. It was all about managing it, increasing. His medication never got to the cause, and he suffered a stroke and unfortunately, it took his life. I see this the same way in America with those who have diabetes. So we're not saying to get off your medication, like you said, but we're saying to get to the cause, which is inflammation, it's hormones, it's the things that we're talking about here.

I'm going to go a little deeper here, and this is personal to me, too, because my mom is type 2 diabetic. And I will say for 10 years, we were able to delay her being on medication. So by diet. So just by changing her diet, no metformin for 10 years. But then it's, you know, she's. She's 78 now, so creeps back up. And she decided that now, I mean, her blood Sugar or her A1C was creeping up. Now, I personally would go deeper with her and say, well, let's look at your gut. Let's look at, like, what else is going on. She's at that point where she's like, I don't want to look at any of this. I just need my blood sugar down. Do you ever think there is a place or spot for, like, I just want to. Where do you stand on that? And what do you feel like? Do you. Do you think it's. Do you advise people delay as long as they can? Is it a balance? Is it, like, where do you. If this was your family member right now, that was still with us and they were navigating this. Where would you stand on it?

Well, there's always a time and place. Well, I shouldn't say always. There's sometimes a time and place for medication, but you do it in combination with the lifestyle work. I love that you did with your mom. You know, you delayed that for 10 years. That is, that's awesome. And it's so good. And whether you have been recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or you had it for 20, 30, 40 years, there's some things you can do lifestyle wise, to maybe completely get off the medication or at the very least take less of the medication. I know that diabetics, and I work with a lot of diabetics, they're, they're tired of pricking their finger. They're tired of having to remind themselves to take the medication. They're tired of the neuropathy, which is the tingling pins and needles in their feet. It progresses into vision loss, it progresses into the kidney starting to dysfunction. And if there's a way to delay that or reverse that, I mean, we gotta try that way. And we can do that with lifestyle changes. They have to be open to doing it. I know a lot of diabetics are a little stubborn. My dad was as well. So, yeah, I think what you did with your mom is great to delay it. And there's some things you can do with her right now to, to wean her off or just have her take less medication.

This might be a little bit off track, but it's bizarre. Like in the biohacking space, a lot of people take metformin and it's funny. And we're talking about not taking it as a medication. So how do you feel about that?

I don't. I'm not a medication guy. I have some colleagues of mine that take it because it helps to lower glucose. And the better you could master glucose, essentially the longer you're going to age. But berberine is something I would take. Berberine acts very similar to metformin without being a medication. It's an herb. So I'll use that cyclically on my high carb day. So I'm the natural route myself. I am not a medication guy, an ozempic guy. I'm not about any medication personally. It's not my style. I'm all about lifestyle.

Okay, so since you just brought that up, it's very popular now. GLP1s, ozempact, tirzepatide. Whether people are doing it for weight loss or they're even microdosing it and for biohacking and inflammation. And I know you're not a medication guy, that one is considered a peptide. How do you feel about peptides? Where does that fit into you?

Yeah, I'm good with peptides, but I have never used any of these GLP1 drugs or yeah, Ozempic, any of them. Personally, I always find different routes to get healthy. Now there, from what I've seen, there are pro and cons to it, right? I've seen people say like low dose Ozempic or low dose GLP1 drugs have really helped with my brain fog and mitochondrial health and inflammation and weight loss. And then there's some people that have taken it and we've heard about the ozempic face, the Ozempic butt, right? You lose muscle. There's some studies showing the organs are starting to fail. So is there a sweet spot in a certain duration you can do with those drugs? Maybe, but I've never done it, so I can't say and I don't recommend it for any of my students.

It's interesting because I feel like if I had asked you 20 years ago, like let's say this is. I was interviewing you 20 years ago and you were obese Ben, and you were standard American diet Ben, you would have had, you would have had different answers. You'd been like, I'm gonna try it. And then you might have had the results. So it's interesting how far, because you're speaking from you were that. Because some people will say, well, you don't understand because I'm here, but you do understand because you were there.

Yeah, that's a good point. You're right. I've been there myself and I get it. Like, you just want to feel better, you want to lose the weight and you can, you can do it without these drugs, without any of these side effects. You could do it naturally. I know I did it when I was young and I'm a man and it's different. But I've seen time after time 6 year old woman do it, 70 year old woman, 55 year old woman. And I'll say this, I think this is relevant for what you teach and your audience. I hear so many people, men and women, say, what's the point? My metabolism has slowed down because I'm 40 or I'm 50, there's nothing I can do. My metabolism slows down with age and I keep packing on fat. And when I was writing the book, I wanted to find out if that's actually true. Like is our metabolism declining because of age? And there's nothing we can do about it. About it. And I found this study from Duke University, and It was a 2021 study. It's the most comprehensive study done on the metabolism. There was 6,600 people in the study from age 1 to age 95 and everything in between. And it involved multiple countries. And they did the most. They did a gold standard testing for metabolism, which was this urine test. And here's what the study said. It said between the ages of 20 years old and 60 years old, there are no significant changes in the metabolism. Meaning your excuse for getting older and why you're gaining weight is not valid, according to this study. And the study also said once you reach age 60, they notice a 0.7% decline in the metabolism every year after that. And you might be watching or listening and you're over 60 thinking, damn, that's bad news. But, yeah, the study said the reason why that happens is because of loss of muscle mass.

Wow. Makes total sense.

So if you follow Natalie and her advice of getting fit, building lean muscle and preserving that by age 60, or if you're over age 60 and you're working on that, you could be 75 years old and have the same metabolism as when you were 25 years old. And to me, that's super, super cool.

That's super powerful that you just shared that. No, you gave me a statistic. So. By the way, you all. I know, I know. We've been. I'm drilling him on a million questions here. His book Metabolic Free, and I'm like, it goes deeper on all of this. I'm just touching on some of the, Like, I gotta disrupt this stuff right now. But his book goes so deep on all of this. You said a statistic in there. You said only 7%. This is shocking to me. Only 7% of Americans are metabolically healthy. That's flipping nuts.

It's insane. So that means 93 of Americans are metabolically unhealthy. That's a 2022 study.

That's crazy.

Yeah, that is crazy. That means when we look at a hundred people out on the streets, 93 of them are unhealthy. Metabolically unhealthy. Which is. Which is sad. And it doesn't have to be this way. It's not the way that God designed the body. We were designed to thrive.

I call them being in a keto deficiency. They forgot how to burn fat. They're stuck burning sugar. There is hope, though, whether you're 25, 75, as I mentioned, there's a way to restore that metabolism, burn fat and feel good. Unfortunately, it's the information we've been given. It's the exact opposite of how to get well and get healthy and burn fat. It's the stuff we're debunking on today's conversation. So, yeah, that's a crazy stat.

So you and I are in like a weird club that we didn't really sign up for, but we are. You, me and Amy, like, we noticed. We were all together. We were all wearing like our Lila Quantum. We all wear the Viva Ray glasses. We have our aura rings. We got all these, these things, right? And like I walked into Ben's house when I was in Miami and I'm like, it's like walking in my own house. You have all. And I was showing my husband. I'm like, see, I'm normal. We have all these the same things. Like the same. The sauna, the red lights, all the stuff. Where do you feel that all that plays a role with. With what you teach and our health?

Yeah, they're all great add ons. They're all great add ons to doing the fundamentals, which is what we're talking about here. I think your air quality is probably the most important thing. So having a high quality air purifying machine. I have four of them in my house.

Yeah, we had the same one of that too. We were like twins. Yeah. You're my brother from another mother.

I love it. I love it. So, yeah, a high quality air purifying machine.

The rest are add ons. Like red light therapy, sauna. They're all add ons to doing the actual work. They're sexy though. They're fun to get. The necklace is great, but they're add ons. They're. You want to take care of the foundations of health, which is sleep. It's. It's your mindset, it's the movement, it's the things you talk about. Natalie. And then you add those on. You don't skip the fundamentals and just go straight to those.

I'm glad you said that because I think people think they're just going to buy a thing and it's going to like, solve all their problems. But I wish it's the foundation. But I think you're right. It's like this is. These are. I call it like age optimizing. Like, it's the, it's the, it's the icing. It's the, it's the healthy icing on the cake. The sugar free berberine friendly icing. It's like, it's like the, it's the next level. Right. And I do think it helps, but I think it's these fundamentals that you're talking about. So when you really boil it down, what I love about what you teach and what I love about your book is you're really bringing it back to basics. Like nothing you teach is not common sense. We've just forgotten it. Like it makes sense that fasting would make sense. It makes sense that no sugar would make sense. It makes sense that calorie counting doesn't add up. It makes sense that we need to do nature and natural before medications. Like so I feel like everything you, you teach really is common sense. But we're not. But people are not doing it. They're forgetting they're looking for the sexy trendy thing. Right?

Yeah. And we have that mentality of, you know, microwave thinking, instant results and the body's.

Speaking of which, I'm sure Ben does not use a microwave. We should not be using microwaves.

No, we should not be using a microwave. I never use a microwave. Unfortunately when I go to my fiance's parents house, like I was there for Easter, they use the friggin microwave.

But my gym has one. Like if you buy your meal, I'm like, really?

That's, Jeez. Yeah. So anyways, we want instant results, instant gratification. We're in that day and age. But.

You just got to remove the interference. The first half of the book talks about. These are the interferences, remove the interference and then here are the solutions and then it's all tied together in a 30 day plan. But once you start removing what's interfering with your body, your metabolism, the inner physician, this innate intelligence will go to heal. It's the greatest physician in the world. You have within your body right now, it'll go to heal itself. It'll heal your body. There's no supplement, sauna practitioner shot or anything that's external that could replace the healing capabilities of your own body. You just have to remove the interference.

Yeah. What do you think of extreme extremeness, Ben? Like when people are like, I'm only carnivore or I'm like strict ketosis 24 7. Like how do you, where do you fall on that?

In general, I'm not a fan of only doing carnivore and long term ketosis, but there are some people that tell me, hey, I've been doing it for over a year and I feel incredible. My lab work feels incredible. So who am I to tell them that it's not good for them. But those are the exceptions, those are the outliers for most people.

You don't want to do anything long term like that. And I love keto. I mean, my company's called Keto Camp. You've been here now, the big sign, Keto Camp behind me. But I'm a fan of metabolic flexibility. Yeah, doing keto and then getting out and using carbs, back and forth. This is metabolic flexibility. My colleagues in the keto space don't really agree with me and sometimes they'll make videos about how I'm wrong about telling people to go in and out of ketosis. And I've, I've spoken at a lot of like low carb keto conferences and I've been on panels as well where there's maybe six people and five other people. I'm the sixth person and they're all telling people about the long, the benefits of long term ketosis of Carnivore. And I'm there saying, actually I think we should go in and out. And it's completely opposite to what they're sharing. But I believe, just like you, that we're designed to go through different variations of our diet, go in and out of these metabolic states. And that to me is metabolic freedom.

I love your whole approach and it's rare that I bring on somebody that like, I fully agree with everything they say. But the thing that I love most about what you teach is number one, it's simple, it's logical. That's number two. Three is that it is based on real life. Because saying you're going to be in ketosis 24,7 the rest of your life, I just, I don't know how that is a healthy, positive thing to do. Like, I just, that's like, I'm never gonna have a bite of birthday cake. I'm never gonna, like, I don't know. I just don't. I think that when we fall into extremes, it's dangerous. So what I like about what you teach, it is absolutely lifestyle friendly and it's what you do the majority of the time and it's having the knowledge and it's being grounded in that and it's not about like I'm going to, you know, create these rigid roles. So I love that.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Now Leah, we, we. It needs to be sustainable, right? It needs to be something you do for the rest of your life. Long term ketosis and the carnivore diet. I love keto and I love Carnivore, but it's really socially restrictive and you want to be able to be metabolically free, enjoy yourself, and to have the piece of cake or whatever it is, but you do the work first and you get to that metabolic freedom that for most people in the beginning you're a little strict, you get some momentum and then you get to a point where you've built up this metabolism and then you have more flexibility. And I will say one more thing, the more muscle mass you have, the more flexibility you'll have as well.

That's true. You all. His book is metabolic freedom, a 30 day guide to restore your metabolism, heal your hormones and burn your fat. And I'm going to say don't just buy one, buy like five. Because you got to give it to your friends too. It's like, because you know how it is. Ben, I say this to anyone anytime I find a good book. You don't want to be the lone soldier. Like, don't just get a book and be the one. That's like preaching to your friends. Like, be part of the change. Like, get. Get five of them. Like, give them to your friends, Give them away and share. Because this is how we make change. Because, you know, it's funny because I think hear so many people, they start getting healthy and then they complain. They're like, well, how come restaurants or how come stores or how come my friends or how we have to be part of the change. So even if you listening or not planning on writing a book or starting a podcast or starting a blog or whatever it is, when you hear things that resonate, share it. Like share this episode, buy the book for others, like, don't just learn and gatekeep information, share it. And that is how we create change. Like, the reason that seed oil app is working well is it's creating change. Like restaurants are responding to it. The reason, like, even no matter how you feel about Maha right now and what's going on, like, change is happening. Like food coloring is coming out. Like things are happening, but that comes from us sharing. So where do you want them to go to buy the book? Amazon? Anywhere else? Like, do you have a place to send them? Where would you like Ben?

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate your support. Natalie. It was so much fun hanging out with you here on my podcast here in Miami a few weeks ago with Dr. Amy Horneman. And you're right, you know, when you learn something and you teach it to somebody, you actually learn it more. You retain that information more. So don't be selfish. And I'm not saying you have to buy five copies of my books, that would be nice. But when you learn it, teach it to somebody, that would be amazing. The book is available anywhere, all bookstores. But if you go to. And I just got the author copies, I didn't have any here, but here's the author copies. If you're watching on YouTube, Dr. Mindy Pels wrote the forward. And if you go to metabolicfreedombook.com and order it, there's. There is different retailers for you to purchase it, but on that page, when you order it there, there's a special gift for your ladies where they'll get an entire course on the metabolism that I built out.

Okay.

Along with some exclusive interviews in that course with Dr. Jason Fung, Gary BRCA, Megan Ramos, Cynthia Thurlow, and Dr. Daniel Pompa. So when you go to that page and order the book there, you just put your name, order number, and email, and you're instantly sent access to the course with the interview. So it's Metabolic free freedom dot com.

Okay? And then, y', all, I'm gonna ask what, Two more favors. Because we're all. We're all in this together. Like, everyone listening. Like, we are trying to get people healthier, right? Like, because think about it. You all listening. If your friends are healthier, you're healthier, your family's healthier, you're help. Like, more restaurants are like, we. We gotta spread the word. So if you. If you liked this episode, please leave a review. Like, a nice one, please. And then also help leave a review on Ben's book, because that's how people find it, too. So I know I was. I'm a published author twice over, and that certainly helps when you get the reviews. It's helped more people find it. Share the love, y'. All, if you enjoyed this and leave.

Some reviews, that'd be amazing. Yeah. No, thank you for that, Natalie. I love the work you're doing. You're. You're offering your ladies so much value, and it's an honor to be a part of it. Thank you for bringing a guy on here to talk about this. I. I'm so grateful for you.

Thanks, Ben.

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