453: Rewriting The Rules on How To Menopause with Tamsen Fadal

It's amazing to me what women are told. Like, one woman recently told me that she was told she went into the doctor's office, had quoted the symptoms that I had said on, you know, one of the videos and in the book, and the doctor came back to her and said, you know, this whole menopause thing is just a trend right now.

Wow.

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To be in menopause by 2025, yet most of us still feel completely unprepared. And 80% of women experience symptoms like hot flashes, brain fog, anxiety. Yet fewer than 20% actually feel comfortable talking to their doctors about it, partially because they feel gaslighted when they bring it up. And the average woman spends eight to 10 years in perimenopause, often without knowing she's even in it. This is crazy. I've got a guest on today who has she. I'm gonna call her the menopause queen. Really? Because she has brought this to light. And she currently has a brand new New York Times bestselling book, how to Menopause. So I've got the one and only Tamsen Fadal here, and I've had her on before, but bringing her back. Hi, Tamsen. You've done so much to bring this conversation top and center, and I just wanna personally thank you for it because this is something that I felt like nobody was talking about for a long time and women were truly feeling gaslit. And I want to. I'm going to ask you a little about your story, but first of all, thank you for your courage, like, even stepping forward and making this such an important topic.

Oh, no, thank you. You know, I think that this is one of those topics that we have no choice if we want to live healthier lives. We've got to talk about it. And then it leads us to other conversations as well. And I think that that's where we want to be. We want to be having these conversations out in the open, not behind Closed doors all the time.

Before I get into a lot of specifics, which I'm going to.

I'm going to ask you.

I've got a lot of questions for you, but can you just share with my audience, for those that are not familiar with them, kind of what you went through, your background, you were really in the spotlight and what started to change for you?

Yeah, I was. I was a news anchor for a long time. I anchored the evening news for about 30 years, last 15 in New York City. And I was going through, at the time, I guess, perimenopause, but I didn't know I'd gone through a divorce. A very public and very stressful divorce. And I was having like, crazy bleeding. I was not sleeping. I was gaining weight. I was looking at the teleprompter. You know, you read the teleprompter on the evening news and, like, looking at a word and forgetting it or couldn't get it out of my mouth, all that was happening and it was attributed to stress over and over again. Anytime I talk to a doctor about it, any time I talk to a therapist about it, anytime I talk to anybody. But fast forward. One night I was on the news and I wound up being escorted off the anchor desk because of what I've now learned was a hot flash, a very intense hot flash where I broke out a sweat, heart was racing, out of control. I felt like I was going to pass out. And I landed on the bathroom floor of the women's room. And when I went to go and look for help, I got a note in my patient portal eventually, after blood work that said, in menopause, any questions? And that was, wow, that was what I got. And that was my entree into. Into a conversation I didn't know I needed to have or to begin, honestly. No.

You being in the public eye and being in the news world, what was your belief before you started springing this about just aging and menopause and women in general? Like, what was your thought throughout that?

Gosh, you know, my mom. I lost my mom when she was 51 and I was 20 to breast cancer. So it was really never a conversation we had. I later learned, as I look back, that she obviously had gone through a medical menopause. But I didn't know and I don't know that she knew. I think that I thought about it like, it's when you die, it's when you're really old, when you're like, way past where we are. And I just. It was literally never anything on my mind, like, never my mind. And. And I had gone through endometrium polyps for quite a few years leading up to that, which is why I didn't know I had stopped having a period, because you bleed like crazy, you know, with that. So I never had that hallmark 12 months, no bleeding. They weren't periods, but I had no idea the difference. So I had enough opportunity for doctors to say something to me during all this time.

Yeah.

In and out of doctor's offices quite a bit dealing with it, but had never heard the word perimenopause or menopause. Isn't that crazy?

It is crazy. I mean, it sounds crazy now, thinking back on it, but you're not alone on this. A lot of. I mean, even now I feel like there's so much talk about it, but there's still women in the dark, not knowing. And I would like, I would imagine you. There's like some shame over that. Like, you start feeling like, what's wrong with me? And what's like something like, especially, I would imagine in your line of work, you're thinking, I got to get it together. Like, I got to be focused. I got to be on camera. Everyone's seeing me.

Yeah. I think the lack of confidence that it gave me during especially what we now know as brain fog. Right. But that lack of confidence was awful. Like, I really.

Dreaded going on the set. Couldn't wait for it to be over. Was anxious, you know, like, just didn't want to have a cr. Like, like this would be crosstalk, right? Just ad lib, talking to each other, completing full sentences that you would do with your partner on the set. And it was nothing that I felt comfortable doing. And that's awful. That's just not a place that you want to be. And so. But I just didn't realize it. I thought, is it age? Is it. Am I, am I stressed out? Is it focused? Am I not sleeping? You know, all those things were happening. And so I guess, you know, when I go back and I look at it now, I'm like, wow, how did I. How did I not, like, push further for. For answers? But I just did.

But it makes sense. You start, I think we all start justifying, like, well, it makes sense. It's stress, or it makes sense that there's this or. Or even like a depression thing, because life starts changing at that age. So, you know, even think of like people becoming empty nesters. So they, they're like, well, maybe it's chalking up to that. Like, I don't have. Things are changing, and I don't.

And because we don't talk about it, it's not a conversation you're necessarily comfortable having or know where to begin the conversation. And I think I've realized now, and there's so much to, like, the community aspect of it. There's so much. The lifestyle aspect of it. I mean, you. That is. Yeah. But I do think that this. As you've said, I. I think that everyone's heard about it now, and that's not the case. No. We've been doing this book tour all around the country now, and, you know, every time we. We sit down with a group of women, the conversation goes all different places. You know, it really is. It's amazing to me what women are told. Like, one woman recently told me that she was told she went into the doctor's office, had quoted the symptoms that I had said on, you know, one of the videos and in the book, and the doctor came back to her and said, you know, this whole menopause thing is just a trend right now. Wow. It's just a trend.

Wow.

I was like, what?

Dang. One billion women expected, and it's a trend.

Yeah. It makes me sad. But imagine an answer like that. Isn't that the craziest?

It's crazy. You know, this is gonna sound so sexist, and I'm gonna say it anyway, but I still have this. Whenever I see a man talking about their opinion about menopause, I get. I'm just, like, instantly triggered because I'm like, you. How do now? Like, you did not walk through this.

I know. I hear you.

So it drives me. And I know that's not politically correct to say, but it just. It makes me mad. I'm like, you don't know.

I hear you.

Especially when they're in my field, you know, fat loss for women. I see. I see men speaking into, you know, their advertising. Fat loss after menopause, fat loss after perimenopause. I'm thinking, what the heck do you know?

Yeah, Yeah, I know. I know. I feel. I. I get it. I do get it. I. Everyone saw. I'm like, that hit me the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah.

And I know I need to be more evolved than that. But it's. But it's just how I feel, especially going through it.

Yeah, you. I get you. I mean, look, I. I am. I feel comfortable talking about it because I deal with it, you know, every day myself. Like, I. It's. You know, there's a real struggle. There's no question about that.

Yeah. So you, when you were navigating this and your doctor sends you that message, like, what happened? Did you. Did you feel validated? Did you feel like I'm going on a thing now? Like, what came up? And did you have friends to even talk to about this?

No, I know I didn't talk to. You know, it's funny, I worked in news. A lot of people I work with are much younger than me. I did talk to my best friend about it and said I, I just went right through menopause. I don't even remember it.

Oh, gosh, those people are rare.

I know. And. And now that I, we. Now that we talk, you know, she read the book and she was like, I think I need to talk to you about some of this stuff. I don't think. I think I need to talk about should I be getting on hormone therapy? Should I? Should I? And so.

But yeah, no, I really didn't. I. I got that diagnosis and then I went to a deep dive myself of like, what should I do? You know, after losing my mom so much earlier, I didn't know what my options were. What options were available to me. I was very worried about breast cancer. I've always been. It's always been kind of like a.

For sure.

That's kind of hung over there of like a big fear, you know, at a, at an age, it was very early in my life, so I, I did go doctor to doctor to try to figure out what to do if I could implement the lifestyle changes and that would be enough. But I really, I was having a tough time. I'll be honest. I did not. I still couldn't focus. I could, you know, hot flashes were, you know, that.

I relate to you on that one. I have. I had the hot flashes just like you did.

Yeah. And I. And I just, I didn't know exactly what to do. And then eventually I found a doctor and I went one after another. Like, I was given pellets. I was given this, I was given that, do this, do that, don't do this, you know? And then I finally found a doctor and I had gotten two sets of hormone therapy. I got one that I just let congeal in the bathroom. I can't do that. It's not bad enough, is it bad enough? Yeah. And then finally I had another one that explained to me, like, the long term health issues. And I went, okay, Tamsen, you've got to, like, get it together.

Wow.

That's what, that's what wound up happening.

Yeah. Can we I want to talk about that for just a minute because you said something that most women start to say and I, and I want to go a little deeper here because you said, I thought, you know, I'm doing the lifestyle, I'm doing this stuff, can I just kind of go natural? And what's interesting is I think there's even still this shame around that I'm going to get some help. Like people think I've just got to go natural, but what they're not realizing is going doing the things like the exercise and the eating, it gets harder when you feel like this. Like it doesn't. When you have no energy and no focus, you can't go do that stuff. So why do you think there is this shame and what advice would you give women about that? Because they go into beat up around it.

Yeah, they really do. And I, you know, one of these events, a woman stood up and she goes, question for you. She goes, how bad should my symptoms be before I get help? Wow. And I went, if you're asking that question, they're already bad enough because you shouldn't be suffering. But we do go through this shame. We do go through and we go shame, look, we go through shame in a lot of different areas, right. No longer as quick as I used to be, I'm no longer as this as I used to be or that is. But I will say that if you can figure out a way to move forward with definitive goals and habits and what you need to be doing game finally start. You can't wake up in the morning and be like, I'm not going to feel shame anymore. Like, that's right, not gonna happen. But I think if you start on a path to discovering what is making you feel better, that finally just starts to dissipate because I did have that shame and it has gone away. And I don't, you know, I, I know it happened, but it was a real process.

Now the other side of this shame is I see some people super self righteous about I didn't have any symptoms or I'm going about it natural.

Like I know.

What do you think of that?

No, I mean, look, I, I, I think that judging people for how they go through things like that bothersome to me because there's something very, very, you know, in a very different way. And I'll also say this, aside from whatever you can suck up in your symptoms, you really need to look at the long term health consequences of some of the things. And I think that, you know, when we're talking about Bone and heart and health, you know, you and brain.

You can't say like, okay, well, I got through the symptoms, but I don't know what's going to happen long term. So really, I would really emphasize learning those things. Just assuming because these symptoms aren't bad enough that you've conquered something. You know, I worry about that.

Now you said something that a lot of women fear. They fear about HRT and cancer. And we, and I've had many doctors on that have talked about the Women's Health Initiative and it's been debunked and all that. But, but you have a real life situation where you lost your mom. This was a heavy concern for you. What did you, how did you help yourself decide that? Because there's a lot of women that are still scared because of that.

No, I totally understand and I get it. It's. It's understandably concerned about it. Look, the headlines that came out that year in 2002 totally blew what the, the results of that study were to another level of fear. It was something that people hopped on because of the fact that breast cancer is such a fear. The data did not support what, you know, what, what our thoughts are about that right now. We were looking at a different type of a hormone that was being, you know, was there. The, the population that was studied was very different than what, what probably should have been in retrospect should be if we're, we did a study today. And so the sad thing is, is that there wasn't much else done to try to dissipate those fears. Yeah, fast forward 20 years. That's why we still have them. They just, you know, I think things just kind of compile. It's almost like telephone, you know, this, this, this to this, this to this person. And you know, that's the answer. But if you talk to any expert that has looked at this over and over again, has been prescribing for, for a long time now, you will realize that so much harm was done to women by not having the information. And, and most doctors that are experts in this field will say hormone therapy does not cause breast cancer. And so, you know, look, if you have breast cancer, if you're at risk of a stroke, you contraindicators. So there are women that cannot do it or should not do it. But for the most part, even most, you know, guy, you know, most guidelines and organizations say that this is the most effective treatment totally hormone for, for hot flashes and menopause symptoms.

And even people that are being told blanket statements like they Cannot do it or should not do it. There's sometimes even workarounds like doing topical or doing vaginal or like there's other, you don't still don't have to suffer. Like there's still other treatments.

That's exactly right. And you know, vaginal estrogen, which is something that is, you know, good for all women, is helpful when it comes not only to, you know, to painful sex, but also when it comes to treating so many other things as we, that we go through as we age. So I do want women to think, like, even if they decide that is not for them, there are other options there for them. Yeah, some of the other symptoms.

So how did you start navigating the information? Because you now, now you're honestly like, you're a leader in this, but you really didn't know much about it at all. So how did you even start? And what do you advise a woman that's listening now going, wow, this is kind of the first time I'm being heard. Or like, where do they start?

I mean, I would say this, I would say that, you know, I. There was very little, comparatively speaking to where we are right now. I would say to figure out, you know, what, what the symptoms are that you're dealing with. You know, be aware of the fact that there are solutions for them and deciding whether or not you're going to do hormone therapy or non hormonal options. You. There's. Luckily we're at a place where we do have some non hormonal options for hot flashes, which is great. But I think, think understanding what you're going through, wherever you are, whether you're in your form and you've got five of these symptoms or, or you're, you know, 55 years old and say, I was never offered that. You know, we're all in different places right now, totally the same information. And so for me, the book, I, I wanted to make sure that it was for perimenopause, menopause and postmenopausal women because we, we all have something to gain from it. And then we put together a documentary called the M Factor, Shredding the Silence on Menopause. It's an only an hour, but I think it really digs into kind, the high, the high points of it from 30,000ft. And then you can go deep down and ask other questions. You know, it's not going to answer every question, but at least it'll give women a starting point to be able to have the conversation that that was really the point of The.

Of the documentary, something else super cool that you did that like really represents thriving through menopause or like truly how to menopause is here. You had this identity in a specific career and you have this setback and you use what you were learning to basically launch a whole nother identity really and career and which I believe gives you more passion and purpose and all the things. Can you just share a little insight into that? Because I think that's a lacking thing from. For women too, that they, they could pivot and do that.

Yeah, I mean, that was nothing. I was, I was planning on, you know, I was a news anchor for 30 something years and this just kept coming up over and over and over again. I couldn't stop, you know, I couldn't stop asking the questions. It was like the story that was personal for me. And so I walked away from my career about 16 months ago to do this full time. So we since then launched a. The documentary that was in October and then the book and now a podcast as well to just, you know, kind of keep diving into these taboo topics and, and to have those, you know, the talks that we need to, you know, that we need to have, we want to have. And I'd like it to be a, A learning platform to just continue the conversation we started with the book.

Do you think doing that, though, has also helped you be powerful and like, thrive through menopause? And the reason I'm asking is I feel like some people feel like they lose their purpose, you know, also in our, at our age group. So, like, for me, same as what you just described, I feel like I have a purpose. Like, I'm, I'm. I mean, we all have a purpose, but like a, A focus and energy. Do you. Has that helped you feel different?

Yeah, I used to. I mean, look, I used to have some, some days I'd be like, oh, can we get out of bed and do this one more day? And now I'm in a place where I'm like, I bop out of bed and I can't wait. And I think what's really been amazing for me is to see.

How it's really helping women. And so that I never really understood what purpose was. I understood what a job was and understand what purpose is. And they're very, very different. They're very, very different.

So when I, when I first met you and I was following you on social media, you were the first one I saw, like changing your patch, like your hormone patch. And I like literally put mine out now too. But you Went from kind of you, you had this anchor life to really showing public stuff. Did you? Were you scared of showing this stuff?

And I was petrified, yes, of course I was petrified. You know, I mean, in time, it got to be more comfortable. Like, obviously, you know, I didn't roll, I didn't roll the patch change out right away, but. But yeah, I got to a place where I was like, you know what we have? I have to walk the walk. Like, I have to go to the next step. I can't. I can't just be like, oh, and then I do my patch, but I'm not going to because that's too embarrassing. And so when I did it the first time, though, and I uploaded that video, I was like, oh, God, one way or another way. But yeah, it was, it was, it was.

For those of you that aren't following her yet, and hopefully you will after this. But, like, she did a whole series for a while. She's like, I decided if I'm going to change my patch twice a week, but you're going to do it with me. So she just started, she started sharing and talking. You did that for a while. Like, you're like, I'm gonna. Every time I change my patch, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put it on and talk to you about it.

Yeah, we did. I mean, it was like. And then people were doing it too, and so I was like, that's kind of cool. So I, you know, I felt, I felt about it. And so we, you know, I did one recently. It was an older video. We put it back up there and it was talking about showing it in a bathing suit. For swimsuit. Yep. Because. Because I was like, trying to get my bathing suit, like, up. Yeah, right. And then I was like, oh, screw it. I'm not, I'm not going to bother.

And said, I wear two patches. Like, I'm like, I'm like, I want more estrogen.

I'm like, I like that. You know what I think?

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I think that like, you know, somebody said to me recently, like, what do you, what about the glue? Doesn't look awful. I'm like, I don't care.

Who cares? I'm not, I'm not doing, I'm not stripping anytime soon.

Exactly. I am not trying to. That does not matter to me. Not at all.

I don't, I don't care about it. I mean, I think if those of you that haven't been through this yet, like, if you don't feel good with like, I was like you, I was having hot flashes. I had all the things and I tried the black cohosh did nothing for me. Like I did all the stuff.

I still try to like, you know, be supportive of that because I know that there are some people that can't or don't want to do it. But it was really hard for those changes to take. Totally with that. It was, it was. I agree with you.

I felt like for me, when you go on the right hrt, it's like you get your life back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would agree with that.

The lights Come back on. It's just like, come back on.

That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. And I. And I think that you, you know, and it's not a one and done, you know, that it's. You've got to measure it out, make sure that it's good. Like, I've had to go up, I've had to go down, I've had to all sorts of things, but that's normal. Like, that's. I'm okay with that as long as I know I'm moving in the right direction. You know, if I wasn't moving in the right direction, I wouldn't even know what to do.

Yeah. What do you think about this is kind of a different question. But I'm curious what you think of. Of the whole news world and media and like Hollywood and all that when it comes to aging and menopause? Like, what's your take on that? Do you think it's helping people or.

Hurting people right now that, you know me, the old school thoughts about it, the. Oh, yeah, well, of course, that was, that was an industry I was in forever with local news even, you know, is that it was like youth mattered. Yeah. And so, yeah, I'm hoping that we have a change. I don't think it's going to come overnight, but I hope we have some kind of change where this, like women in midlife or being heard and seen and that women in their 30s aren't fearing this next stage because it's like the best years are behind you. I don't, I don't subscribe.

No. I feel personally, like, very hopeful because I'm seeing more and more, I think, because we're so. We don't have just traditional media. Like, we have podcasts, we have YouTube, we have social media. Like, we have all these other ways for people to get their message out. And then people. It's speaking for itself because people are following along with that. Right. So I almost think, like, traditional media, if they don't catch up, like, it won't be a thing thing, because people are finding what they want to follow.

Well, and I'm glad about that, too. And it's funny, like, my feed has totally changed so much. You know, my feed is like exactly what I want. It's like menopause and conversations and fitness and working out. You know, it's like, it's great. And, and so I don't see the, like, I see great sides of it because I. The conversations that I really want to have are happening totally Right, Totally.

What do you, like, what do you want women to know, listening like that are maybe feeling really down right now, and they're, they're just like, in that give up mode. Like, this sucks.

I would like them to know that there is hope and that, but you've got to take action and you've got to take charge. And it's really why I wrote the book the way I wrote it, because I know how difficult it is. I know what it feels like to be just kind of floundering around and like, what do I have to do today to just try to feel a little bit better? And that sucks. You know, it really does. And so I want them to know that there is a way to take charge. And I want them to know there are things they can do right away to help with that. And I want them to know that, like, this other side can be pretty amazing. Yeah. And to look forward to that, to embracing that.

And then how do you feel about, like, even. And this is a weird question because I know this isn't necessarily you, but this is a big thing with beauty changing and when aging really does affect us. And my gosh, you were in the media, like, what do you think with women and the ideas of, like, all the cosmetic stuff that they're doing or trying to look youthful? What do you. What's your. Do you have an opinion? Do you have a thought? Do you have any advice around that?

That. Yeah, I mean, look, I. I try to do things that make me feel good, so I, I will never say don't do them, but I will say this. We're not going back to what we were before. So you have. This is as young as you're going to be right now. You know that that is really the truth. And when you think of it like that, you have to decide what you want to put into it. You know, I don't, I don't want to try to fight to be 26 every day in my life. That's a losing battle. And I think it sets you up your mindset for a lot of disappointment. And that doesn't mean to give up. That means to be as incredibly healthy as you can be right now. And I think that that's got to, that's got to weigh out over things because it matter how pretty you are, if you're not healthy, you know.

Yeah. You had a post, and I don't remember all the specifics that I remember the picture.

You were.

You showed a picture of yourself. You must have been like, in your late 20s or early 30s and you were pointing out like the physical appearance of you and you were kind of like talking to that girl, like what she didn't know if. Do you know which one I'm talking about? I'm like, but what, what stood out for me is that you get it and you've like evolved in this shift and I think most, most people more often than not are still stuck in that comparison. So what advice do you have for that? Because you just said something very clear like you're, we're not going back, we have to. But what advice? Like how do you get there? How do you get to that place?

You know, I think for me, because it was hard for me, I mean I was in an industry where they said to me, you're going to probably leave the industry because there's going to be a younger girl sitting next to the old guy. It's not the other way around. And it turned out it was the other way around. I was the older girl, years old with my co anchor and so, so that was kind of cool. But, but yeah, I think that you have to really understand who you are inside. And I think it comes back to the conversation we were having earlier with purpose. I think it's really embracing what you want, who you are, why we're here and what's really going to be important. And for me, look, I love being that age. It was great, but I was struggling. I thought I had perfect all the time. I had a lot of pressure. I don't feel that anymore. I feel very excited. The pressure I feel now is how do I help more women? You know, what do we need to do next and what's going to get us over a line where we feel like this is taking a turn now so all women have access. Like those are my important points. Back then it was how long do I have to stay at the gym? You know, oh my gosh, I got to get my Botox and I've got to keep my job because totally. And then balance 100 other things so nobody knows I have any stresses like those two different people. And so I would attach, have women take inventory of, you know, where they are and what's really important and what they want the next 30 to 50 years to look like. Because I will tell you that is not sustainable.

No, it's not. And it's very, it can't. That's what's going to depress people because.

We cannot control that in, in, in short lived in terms of the happiness because it constantly changes. It's almost like the whiteboard changes every. For sure. Every day it changes, you know, you start over again.

Yeah, I mean, I. I personally. I mean, I'm. I personally walk through struggling with that, too. Same thing. I mean, different industry than you, but. But, you know, the industry that I come from, like, very focused on body and looks and all. So it's like a. It's almost like you have an identity crisis. Like, well, if I'm not just that, like, what. What else is there? Who am I? So I think there's a lot of. Yeah, I think they get dismissed. Yeah, some of them get dismissed. Like, just embrace it.

And that's kind of the roadmap that we were never given, you know? And so that's why I think these conversations are so important. And I think that we can't have them enough. And I think that the more we see another woman having them is to step up and help embrace that and share that message. And that where I feel like we're going, I don't feel this competitive thing that maybe I felt when I was in my 20s.

Yeah.

And I really appreciate that because I feel like we're all moving in the same direction.

No, I know you're married and your husband was. He was basically. He was with you, going through a lot of this. This change. How did he respond? And did you have to, like. I mean, what. Did you have to educate him on? Some of this. And what about the women listening? That. Okay.

Yeah.

And what about the women whose husbands.

Are just not getting it and just not.

What do you.

What do you think?

You know, I. I'm hope willing to. If they don't get it from their partner, they're at least are willing to read something quick or watch something quick to kind of get a little bit of it. I am seeing some hope with that. You know, on the book tour, we had one guy come up to me and he said he was sitting there with his wife. He was, like, really intensely listening. And I couldn't tell if he was, like, over and annoyed or injured. I couldn't tell. Like, I was like, oh, gosh, are we boring him or, like, I don't know to be here. And. And at the end, he came up and he goes, I have a question for you. And I'm like, oh, boy. And so I go, yes. And he said, I have two daughters, 20 and 35. When should I start having them learn about this? And I. He walked back up to the front, got two more books, and not just made his daughters, he made it out to his daughter and son in law, each one.

I love that.

I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And so I was like, oh my gosh. And we posted him everywhere, you probably have seen him, but he love that thing. So I'm hopeful that once guys hear something that they start to ask more questions because it's not just partners, it's also in our workplace place. It's also unity. It's also, you know, sons looking at mothers going through this. It's you know, sisters looking at other older sisters going through it. So I think we have a lot to learn ourselves. Yeah. As long as we can start making it a normal conversation even when it doesn't feel comfortable. That's when we start bringing them men into this. And I, and I think the some, you know, some evolved men are, you.

Know, are listening something that you've done and I've definitely done and I think a lot of people have done but most people don't recognize and I think this is important is you made a decision, you truly made a decision that you were going to figure this out and you were going to have a different reality around it. You decided, you didn't say I'm going to be defeated by it. This sucks. This is going downhill. And I do think it's important for women to hear that too because I think what happens is a lot of women will commiserate with friends, commiserate with their doctor and then somebody might even say to them this is normal. It's aging. You're supposed to accept it. And it's almost like they start believing and they don't even try to have a different viewpoint. But I watch women that are actually navigating it quite and look like they're thriving. It's because they made a conscious decision that they were. It was going to be different for them.

Yeah. Oh, I think so too. I think that, you know, that mindset is a big part of this. There's no question. It's why half of the book or the third half. Third book is about lifestyle mindset. So I think that's a big deal. And I think that we could say that with anything. Right. If you're going into something like dating, I don't even care like this or.

Starting a business anything or starting a business business.

And I think you've got to do that here and I think you've got to double time it here. Yeah. Be very discouraged. There could be a lot of discouragement along, you know, in the, in this phase. But I will say that Mindset's a huge part of it. It's a huge part of being able to get the help and also a huge part of, of how you, you know, heal. If it's a. Symptoms, sure. How you move into this next chapter. Because do you want to go into this next chapter, like feeling awful, feeling needed, feeling like your best years are behind you and kind of hopeless? And I, and I think that it can go one of those two ways. So you have to make a decision, like a definitive decision of what you want it to look like. And it might not look like that right away and it probably won't, quite frankly.

Now I would imagine when you started your kind of journey with social media, like, and then even before you wrote your book, you, you were not planning on building this menopause community. I'm assuming it like came just from you sharing what you were really walking through. I'm wondering when like the vision kind of hit you that you gotta be bigger and do the book and do the documentary and all of that.

I, you know, it's funny, I didn't.

I didn't have like a plan out. I just knew, I kept asking questions and I knew they had to go somewhere. The answers, you know, because they were helping me so much, then I knew they would help somebody else. And so that's where that's what got my started on social. And then I was introduced, actually somebody, she just sent the letter to me today. I was introduced through a mutual friend to my documentary partner. And she was like, you guys keep talking about menopause, so here I'm going to introduce you to each other. Good luck, love, with your menopause conversation. Haha. And that became my documentary partner. And that's wild because we were like, we keep sharing this over and over again, but we need to share it with other women. So that's where that started. It was very like a grassroots approach. It wasn't like, let's get a film company and make it fancy. That was nothing. And then as I was doing through the course of that, I'm like, gosh, there's so much that we're never going to be able to get into that film. I like right in unison with this. And so that's what I was doing. And, and then there were like kind of those other areas of it too, of lifestyle and fitness and just we couldn't fit all that. And, and I just had so many people I wanted to interview because I love interviewing. Yeah, I've been hearing like 42 different experts for the book which was just like. A lot.

Yeah, a lot.

But I. But I think necessary, because I don't think that this conversation ends and as you know, doesn't end. Doctor's office.

It doesn't end.

I.

You know, I love this, you guys. If you have not heard of her book yet, she just hit New York Times bestseller, which is awesome. It's called how to Mentor. And you can get it. Where do you want them to go to get it? I know that's available Amazon everywhere. Is there a special place to go your books?

Yeah, anywhere.

But don't just buy one. Y' all buy like three or four and give them to your friends. Seriously. Because it's not. Because I don't think this is an alone conversation. Like, this is. And I think it is. You would be surprised, y', all, how many of even our own friends in our network, like, just don't get it or know it. And I think it's like, it's such an important conversation. So this is. I love that there's more and more coming up on this topic. Even. Gosh, I look at my podcast, like, who. What episodes? People listen to all the ones about menopause and hormones. They're like, they're. That's what people want.

I know, I know.

Well, hungry for it.

Standard. We want to look. We're playing catch up for, like, our whole lives, and we're trying to do a crash course and all that. So I think it really makes sense. In the conversations that you're having around menopause and in menopause and beyond menopause are the ones that are, you know, are critical to us right now, if I can say.

So where do they watch a documentary? Where do they think? Find that.

Yeah. So the documentary. If they go to M. Factorfilm.com there's. Okay, get it now. We were licensing it out for free for people. So some people will bring it into their communities. Others have decided that they want to, like, get the DVD so they can just, you know, keep it for themselves. We're solving screenings coming up in different places. So we had a screening in Chicago three nights ago, and I think we have a few more there. So they can find the events there. They can find amazing access. It. Yeah, it's. Thank you. It's been really.

It's been incredible. We did not expect that on the. You know, we did not expect that. What?

Did I not ask that you wish people would ask you?

Oh, no, I. I love this conversation. Yeah. I think you're. You're just so into it. With me, I feel like you and I.

But I.

But is there something that like, you're like, I need women to know this. And you like, well, I think I would.

I just want women to know this. I, I think when women say like, you know, I can't find, I can't find the right doctor, I know that can be really frustrating. And so I do want women to know that, you know, there are some resources out there. Menopause society.org is one. And then I would also say that there are a lot of telehealth companies where you can get help right away. Like, I don't want women to think they have to wait six weeks to get a doctor's where to start getting help. And that worries me. And so I would like women to. They can do that today. And so that was. That's what I would bridge. And I think.

There.

I do have kind of like a little bit of a health question. I know this is not your particular expertise, but because I featured so many doctors on here, and I don't want to confuse people either, I always say there's kind of like an order of operations and I want, I want you to tell me if you agree or you disagree. And I'm not attached, but I say there's kind of an order of operations. Like step number one, are we eating well and moving our bodies? Like, and are we in the right mind space? And then kind of step two, we got to look at all the different detective areas, like our gut health, our thyroid, our hormones. It's not just like a one and done. Like, what's your opinion on like kind of that well rounded approach because they're listening to you and they're like, okay, I'll get your book and I'm gonna talk to a doctor. But what do you want them to take into account for their own knowledge and how.

I mean, thirds of the book is lifestyle, 2/3 of the book is all of that. It's the eating, it's the movement, it's the mindset. You know, I have the three M's there. I think I want them to take this into account. They're the only ones that know their body very, very well. You can go to 100 doctors and get 200 opinions. You've got to know what you're going in there for. You've got to test these other areas too. Like, I really do believe that my thyroid has changed. I've had a lot of different things that gut health essential. It's been a huge focus right now for Me personally. And the more that I keep seeing this and hearing it and understanding what's. What's changed with me, like, you know, I can eat something I ate six months ago. My stomach exploded. I feel, you know, it changes.

Like enzymes change. Everything changes.

Things have changed. And so I would not think that this is not like, do I do hormones or do I not do hormones? That's not the. That's not only question. Like, that's.

Yes, that's the quick fix. Like, it's not. It doesn't work that way. You've got more to it.

But we have to talk about root causes with this because I really do worry.

That you can go to a lot of. You can get band aids on a lot of different.

Totally.

And so I think that that is where that confidence that we were talking about earlier comes from. That is where that, hey, I'm in charge now. And I think that that spreads out to all different areas of our lives. And that's why the. The subtitle is take charge your health and reclaim your life. It wasn't to be like, you go, but it would be like, hey, I want you to know that it's you that it has to start with.

Yes, starting. She gives actual steps in here, y', all, so it's really good. So how to menopause is her book and you want to go watch the M Factor. So I'm gonna go find that. I've got to watch that now.

I'm like, let me know and I can send you over whatever you need.

Excited about it. Thank you so much for being here tonight.

Thank you. Thank you. And I'm hoping this starts up some book clubs, so women in their own communities. I love that, that verse. So if anybody needs it, I have a. I have a discussion guide we can send over to.

Oh, that's. That's amazing.

Thank you. Thank. Yeah.

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Sam.