482: The Great Medical Insurance Con: Why Telehealth Can Be Your New BFF with Katy Whalen

It probably means you don't feel good because let's face it, like in our country, normal is really not that healthy. It's like I'm tired, I crash at 2pm, I wake up with racing thoughts. I don't. I'm probably a little bit overweight. Like normal in our society is not really that great.

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Thank you, Natalie. I'm so excited to chat today.

So I want to go back a little bit. You had mentioned when we were chit chatting before we recorded yesterday, you had said that you noticed when you were in the process of having a baby and fertility, you felt super supported. And then it was kind of like after that you're thrown to the wolves. Like now there's no support. And that kind of turned on your mind to like, we need something better for women. Can you share a little bit about that and what you figured out there?

I mean, you nailed it. I felt like when I got married at 35 and all I was focused on was having my family and sadly, it just was way harder than I knew it was gonna be. Looking back, I'm like, geez, I was so naive. I thought, you're gonna get pregnant, it's gonna be great. Life is awesome. But for me, it was unfortunately like a series of miscarriages. I did all the IVF stuff, talked to surrogates, and then finally did have my own babies in my early 40s. There was so much support during that whole thing. I mean, obviously we spent so much money on like the fertility clinics, the drugs, the blah, blah, blah, and so many appointments, checking all the things. And then to stay pregnant, then to have the babies, so supportive. And then I remember going back at my six week appointment and just being a mess. You know, all the things I like, the brain fog, the anxiety, the. I was overweight, I had, I just felt awful. And them going, like, you're fine, great, I won't see you again. And then I'm like, okay, but where do I go now? Because, like, there's a lot to fix here. There's a lot to put back together. And there was, there was, there was just kind of silence, like, you know, next time you're pregnant, I'll see you again. You know, And I was like, holy moly, what do I do? And I knew I needed to do something. And so for me, it was kind of like a light bulb moment of like, there's something missing for women and it's that support. Exactly. You know, where I was, which was mid-40s. And so that's what I, that's what I kind of tried to create here is that support for, you know, midlife. And after you're done with all the, the babies and all those doctor visits and so that you know, that's who we support here at Joy.

What do you think goes wrong in like, because, you know, I've tried to really wrap my brain around what goes wrong because I feel like so many doctors, they go to medical school with such great intentions. Like, we want to help people, we want to heal, we want to. That's the right intention. And then somehow along the way it turns into, and I'm not saying all doctors.

Doctors.

This is definitely not all doctors, but many. And at least what women share is it turns into these quick, you know, like the five minute appointment situation, like there. I mean, what do you think is what's going on there? Like, because that's where I think they're feeling not heard and understood.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. First of all, by saying, like, doctors are well intentioned, they're good people. Like, I have nothing bad to say about doctors. I think it's the system itself, right? It's the system that doesn't teach them the right things. So they go to school, they learn the curriculum, and then they're off on their way. And we know. I know you know this, that like, what, it's 1 in 5 OB GYNs are trained in menopause. And I will even argue that, like, that training is probably so out of date, even the, you know, the one in. The one out of the five that is trained, it's probably not up to date. So they just don't know what they don't know, like all of us. And so we're sitting there as the patient thinking, this person is gonna just fix me, tell me what to do, I'm gonna listen and life will be good. But in reality, they can't help you with stuff that they aren't taught themselves or stuff that they haven't been through or understand. So I think it's the system. I don't think it's the doctors. And I'm hoping that this huge menopause movement will change that for women because it's been a disservice for women for, for a long time. And it's, it's, it's time.

When you think about what went right with the fertility stuff, like, I want to. I'm kind of. And I know I'm going back here a little bit, but you said you felt so supported and taken care of. Is that because that was more concierge medicine or like, what is your take? Because you were spending a lot of money with that. Like, what. Why did. Was there so much support and so care.

So much care There honestly, like that's such a great question that I've never been asked or really thought about. But you're, you're spot on. Like there was, I mean first of all, you're right, I was paying a lot of money. Most of it was not covered and so, and honestly they did so much testing, right? It's like you go in there and you see.

You know, all these different methods and all these different tests, whether it's like the blood test or it's, or it's like just exams and the dye tests. So they're literally checking on every different system that could contribute to what's going on with you know, not being able to, to keep a pregnancy. So when I think about it that way, it's like they're very thorough, you know, and they use a lot of science backed evidence and I just don't think that's ever, it hasn't to this day been that way for women in menopause.

You know, I honestly never connected to the dots until we were just talking about this right now. But it's wild that they've literally have figured out a system, right for how to get pregnant, how to get, get through fertility. It's like very well oiled machine really. Like, it's like you, the support, all that. And we really do have a lot of that information. With menopause and perimenopause it's just not being shared in a way that it needs to be I feel still and it's not thorough. And one big frustration to me is even if somebody is trained on menopause and perimenopause, sometimes they're trained on a very black and white thinking way. So it's like only this way. So then what happens is when a woman is like, well that doesn't feel right for me or this might be different for me, they're also met with this like this judgment like I'm the doctor, this is, we know that.

Oh, oh my gosh. I share that same like passion and same like I guess hatred for that kind of way of thinking about things. Because I can tell you like for me I can tell you what I do as a company, I can tell you what we do and what we believe in. But you know, as a woman who has many other, you know, friends, female friends, I can tell you that like what works for me doesn't work for someone else. And you know, one example I love to give is that I have a dear friend who will tell you that a pellet saved her life and you know, at Joy and Blokes, we don't believe in pellets because they could, you know, they have different risks and benefits. We don't do them. We're also telehealth, so that's one reason. But even if we had brick and mortar, we would not do them. However, I will never shame someone for doing it if it works for them. I will never say you shouldn't do that because, like, clearly it does work for some people. So I really believe that we're all different. We all have unique lifestyles, we all have different DNA. We all have different toxins that we are exposed to. And so really the key is to understand all your options, to really work with someone who can give you the risks and benefits of everything. And then it's really up to the woman to decide what path is right for her. And you can also decide one thing and then change your mind too, which is often the case, you know, as you know something, you got to try stuff and see if it works sometimes.

Totally. When you think of menopause and perimenopause, what do you know to be true? Being who you are, you know, your mid-40s in sort of the throw of it. I'm post menopause. I know you're Perry to menopause. We're not. We were. You were saying you might be menopause. You're not quite sure yet. What do you know to be true now, like, personally, just as a woman, and I know you obviously have a company that works with so many women, but what's like your truth around menopause and perimenopause? What do you want women to know?

Great question. So it's funny because I will say that I, in general, I've always viewed myself as a very natural person, like organic person. Like, my husband and I constantly fight over what meds we can give the kids because I'm like, no, I don't want that. You know, Tylenol, fever med, whatever. Like, like their immune system is going to kick this. But. And so in general, like, I don't take much either, but I will tell you, I am on all things because I do believe that.

I believe that perimenopause and menopause is. Can be very tricky. Not for all women, but for some women, like, even if you're healthy and do all the things and you have that, like, holistic, like, I don't need it. I've seen those women. I've been one of those women. And it's still. It can kick Your ass no matter what. So, like, I think it's just. It's such a time for women where you have to go, all right, how am I. What am I going to do? Like, how is this looking for me? And what's my path forward? Because likely whatever you're doing before is not going to work. So you really have to take care of yourself at this. At this time, I think.

What are your thoughts on just hormone replacement in general? Like, do you think, like, every woman should be doing it? Do you like, what's been your. And I know you work with so many doctors. Like, what do you. Do you like, is it like, I wish women. Women all knew that this could benefit them. Do you see it as. It's very personal. Like, I'm just curious your thoughts around that.

It's so personal. It's not one size fits all. I want every woman to have access to the data, have access to the data on themselves, have access to the education and all the options, and then also have access to clinicians that can kind of guide them and help them and give them the options. I think the access, the education is so important because with that information, I think.

Women should be empowered to make those decisions for themselves, again with the guidance of a clinician. But, you know, I understand it's not for everyone.

I'll hear lots of people say, oh, my God, it changed my life. And I believe them. It's certainly been for me as well. But there's other women, I can tell you. Even yesterday, I got a message from one of our health coaches saying, this patient's been with us for two years. I actually remember her name because she has been with us for a while, and she has tried switching the different things. And it's like. It's just. There's something else missing for her. She's just not feeling like she knows she deserves to feel. And so in those situations, I'm like, well, we got it. First of all, you got to dig deeper. Like, what else can we do to understand, like, what is missing? But the reality is some of these things just might not be right for that person. So it's really personalized. And one of my other passions is just saying, like, look, let's not lead with fear. There is no black and white. It is really a journey that's up to the woman and her provider to figure out.

So it's interesting. I've noticed that especially with the onset of a lot of different peptides. And I'm not just Talking about even GLPs, like, things like BPC157. And peptides seem to be a big new conversation with a lot of midlife women. I see a lot of people doing their own online shopping, like just going online and finding peptides and buying it and not going to a doctor. What are your thoughts around that? Because that, I gotta be honest, that freaks me out a little bit. I think hormones, everything needs a doctor to evaluate. Like, I'm curious your thoughts around that.

Yeah, peptides are powerful Tools and I 100% align with you that they should not be, you know, just bought off the Internet with an unknown source and not under medical supervision. And you know, I think what you're mostly referring to is what you call research peptides. And they literally say not for human consumption on the vial. And that's because they haven't been tested, they aren't regulated. And so like the purity, the sterility, we just don't know. So you're, you are gambling. And that does scare me. And what scares me about it, besides for someone getting hurt, is also that it just gives actual like, you know, Rx peptides a bad name.

You know, what's wild, I kid you not. And I'm not gonna call them out. Cause I love all my guests, but I had a few guests on that were. It was like a different story. Like, we suggest research peptides because I.

Was like, wait, what?

What do you mean? It's almost like a different marketing spin of people saying that research peptides are good. Because like, what. I had never heard that. But that is super scary to me.

That's funny because I guess you could. That's a great way to twist it. Because research is a good word, right? That means like, there's science back. Yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's a fancy marketing probably tool. I mean, really, they're just not tested. And, and that I think is kind of scary.

Let's talk about lab testing for a minute because I know you're a huge proponent of lab testing. And we, we've had conversations before about like, is it blood or urine? Or why. Talk to me about why.

Blood testing is sort of why you feel this is the, this is the golden standard. This is what we should be doing. And then also what markers should we be looking for that maybe are not being tested regularly when we're looking at panels.

So we do think blood is the gold standard. Although I don't poo poo any other tests as well. So how I feel is most women can really benefit from going deeper with a Blood test. So we test hormones. And what I hear all the time is like they fluctuate. And it's true, they do fluctuate, but you can still get a pretty good idea of where they're at. And then we monitor constantly, right? So when you're on hormones or you're on a therapy, it's not just one test and you're done. We're monitoring sometimes quarterly is the normal cadence. So you really can understand trends at that point. We also don't just test sex hormones. We do a lot of different biomarkers. We have our, our most accessible test is something like 56 biomarkers and then it goes up to 110. So you're not just testing your estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, you are testing for your full thyroid panel, you're testing for your liver enzymes, your kidney health, your vitamin deficiencies. So when we're treating the person, we first of all map those blood marker biomarkers to your symptoms. So it's really important to kind of combine the two. And with the two of those things then you can really get a full picture of things that can improve and what you can work on. And that's how we kind of create the plan. Is those two really crucial pieces coming together now? I think where other tests come into play, like the Dutch, the urines, whatever, is when something's not working for someone and you've tried different things, you've tried to switch the application methods, you've tried different dosing, you've tried, you're doing the right lifestyle things like the detoxing and the non processed foods, all that kind of stuff. If you're doing all the things and it's not working, I think it's wonderful for people to dig in deeper and try other things. I don't think it's the first place to start and I don't think it's necessary for all.

What about.

When we're testing and a lot of women will go to their doctor and they'll say, I, I just ran a hormone panel, my doctor said they did it and they said everything is normal. I want to ask you about that word, normal, especially perimenopause and menopause.

That's so dismissive, isn't it? That's the whole point. That is why we are here. I hear that every day still. And I'm hoping at some point that like whole thing goes away because it's just ridiculous.

And what does normal even mean?

What is it?

I don't even.

Well, it probably Means you don't feel good because, let's face it, like, in our country, like, normal is really not that healthy. It's like, I'm tired, I crash at 2pm, I wake up with racing thoughts. I don't, you know, it's, I'm probably a little bit overweight. Like, normal in our society is not really that great. And I hear that all the time. I think there's a couple things. One, we don't want to be normal. We want to feel optimal. And so we like to use optimal ranges. And optimal is, you know, you really feeling alive and having the energy to do what you want to do. And then the other thing is just having your doctor or clinician being trained in what the ranges should be. The ranges that the labs give you are so broad and they're based on a lot of people that go in there not feeling well to see where their levels are. So normal, again is not where you want to be, but you need someone trained in, like, where do most people feel good? Like, what's that level to be above where I'm going to be? Like, yes, like, my vitamin D is high enough or I'm going to have that immune system response. My, you know, my estradiol is enough to be protective for me. You know, where are your optimal levels in each of those markers? So it's a big, giant leap between normal and optimal.

You know, it's funny, I know a lot about labs now, but I didn't for many, many years. And I was looking back on my labs before I knew what I know about labs. So, like, looking back four years ago at labs, and I, when I looked at them now, I was kind of shocked because I saw this huge, huge decline in estradiol, for example, and just all markers. And I remember my doctor at the time saying, you're normal. Like, but now when I look at it, I'm like, okay, what I was normal for was a, at the time, close to menopausal woman with declining hormones. So I got what, why she said that. But what I didn't understand is all the things I was feeling didn't have to be that way. So, yes, typically it's normal for a woman not changing or doing anything or correcting. Right. Normal for that age group, so to say. But it's not normal for how I was feeling. So what I love for the word to is say optimal. Like, so I even say when you go to your doctor, like, is your doctor helping you figure out what's actually optimal so you can feel and Function your best versus just like what's normal? Because that normal word just means we're looking at the average.

I, I think that normal, to me, when you say normal, that just means you're not dying. Like, you're not dying, you're fine. Like, you know, but mean, you feel good. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I even think like the same with you. Take like a 5.7 A1C, right? That's like borderline pre diabetic. That's your blood, your blood sugar's over three month period and somebody might say you're normal because you're not quite 5.8 pre diabetic, for example. But to me that would be still a red flag. Like, no, you're on the higher side of this is not optimal.

Yeah. And we would say like, what can we do lifestyle wise to get that number down so that, you know, because you're, it's teetering on that edge. And so what you, what we want to do is be preventative and proactive, which is totally different than the traditional healthcare system. The healthcare system is like, you're fine, you're not dying, and come back to me when you are dying and then we'll see what we can do.

Yeah. So I know you obviously founded a telemedicine company based on your own personal experience, but what do you. There's a lot of misconceptions about telemedicine. Can you help us like with that? I know a lot of times.

When a woman is struggling with finding somebody in their area or going to doctor, when they hear the idea of a telemedicine, they don't fully understand it. What is that and what should somebody like truly be looking for with something like that?

Well, I mean, it's fairly new still. Right. And honestly, so we founded. My husband and I worked together and we founded this company during COVID And so of course at the time we were like, well, telehealth's the way to go because nobody's leaving their houses.

But I do think it gets a bad rap just because it's new and because Zoom is weird. It's weird to talk to a doctor over Zoom. But it's really important because it really helps with accessibility. One of the problems in the system is you can have one really great doctor in Des Moines, Iowa, but only a small percentage of women can go to that doctor there. So what I think is great about telehealth is that that it can really reach a lot of people and it can in some ways standardize what we're doing. You had mentioned before, like, there is no real standard care for menopause. No one has really written, you know, the protocols that every and everyone follows them. It's a little bit. Every practitioner is doing what they believe is the best way. And so what you know is good, I think, about telehealth is that it can help some of that be more consistent.

And I will also say, like, we're not AI. We are real people, and we've got real people behind the zoom and behind the scenes. And so you're not talking to a robot. You're still working with real humans.

How did you find your doctors? And how do you know? Because obviously you've got some serious standards here, like your beliefs, your husband's beliefs, what, you know, just even how you want to care for women. Especially walking through a lot of this, like, how do you even. That's like. And you've got some amazing doctors, but how did you even go to that place of being able to find that?

Well, my husband, actually, I'll have to give him some props. He was the one who really started it because he went through some hormonal issues before I did, and he was a healthcare entrepreneur. During COVID he actually had regenerative medicine clinics, so four brick and mortar stem cell clinics. And so, you know, that was his space. He'd been in that his whole career. And so he really knew the business side of being clinical and what to do. And so it was funny when he went through his own health issues, he felt like, wait a minute, like, I'm in the system. Like, I know the system. Like, how am I not finding help? And so that was the light bulb moment for him to be like, I could do this better. And then, of course, again, like I said, it was Covid. So that's why we went the telehealth way. And then I didn't come in to do joy for women until six to eight months later. I was not going to be involved. I just wanted to have babies and be happy. But ultimately it was like my health struggle after having my kids that I felt like we were just missing the boat by not helping women. Because going through the men's side of the program, which we had first, just was life changing for me personally.

So when you're, like, looking for clinicians to help your clients and stuff in here, are you kind of looking for, like, do they ask these questions? Are they that thoughtful person that's like thinking outside of the box or like, how do you. Because this is what I'm trying to wrap my brain around too. Like, even when people say, like, help me find a doctor, I'm like, I always think, well, I don't know how your doctor thinks or how it's hard for me to recommend somebody because I don't. I only know who I work with. Right.

I'll tell you, in the beginning, I think it was a lot harder because in the beginning it was like you. We weren't finding the right people that were like, really trained from like a holistically functional, you know, really good with women's hormones. It was tricky. I feel like, thankfully now it's getting easier and easier because, you know, there is this movement and there are people that are on their own going to study more and learn more to serve the people that they are seeing as underserved. So it is easier now to find people who are trained that way. We also created, created our own, you know, training program we called the Joy and Blokes University, where we put our clinicians through so that they make sure that they are up to speed on all the things and how everything kind of relates to each other. You know, we started off like, more narrow in just hormones. And then we've broadened because we've seen just the needs of clients. Like for instance, we never started doing thyroid, but we've, gosh, we found that like 70% of our women, you know, in perimenopause menopause does also have thyroid issues. So like, that's something we've added, you know, we added later on to include stuff like that.

Yeah, you and I want to share. You, you're actually the first founder of a telemedicine, a telehealth company I've ever interviewed. And the reason is, and I, and I've been looking to interview one for quite some time, like wanting to, wanting to have a place to like, tell. And the reason I, you're the first one, honestly, is I had not found one that kind of aligned with that initial conversation too. Like that initial conversation of, of thinking outside the box and wanting to partner with a. A patient. So a lot of times I, I've heard from people, they'll say, well, this is what our doctors do. This is the only way, basically they do it. But what I, what stood out to me about your approach is you. I don't remember it was you or somebody on your team mentioned, like, we partner with patients. Like, we like to be. It's like an extension. You want to have a conversation with a patient. And that to me is what has been missing unfortunately, for too long with so many doctor patient relationships that I. That at least that I hear dealing with midlife women, I can't speak for every doctor, but I really hear that it doesn't feel like a partnership to patients.

Yeah, that's so important to me because I. One of the biggest things, I mean, women just want to feel heard. And it honestly makes me cry sometimes when we get these, like, reviews where they just say, like, I Finally, after 40, 50 years, I finally feel heard and listened to. That's such a big deal. And that's like, oh, we're doing something right when we hear that. So we always, I mean, we're pretty collaborative. We have 30 minutes or an hour, depending on what lab, you know, how many biomarkers you get. We have 30 minute to one hour clinician visits. So there's a lot of time to like, go over all the things, right? And, you know, listen. Like, we've got probably about 50 clinicians right now, and they, we still make mistakes and they'll still be like, complaints. And I can. I see a lot of them. A lot of times people will come to me, be like, my doctor said this, like, I don't agree. And I'll, you know, I'll be like, all right, let's figure this out and work together and we'll talk and we'll review stuff and we'll, we'll figure out how to, like, make sure that that person feels like they're getting the solution that they really came here for. Because that's so important to me. It's just so important that people feel like they have hope and a solution and a plan to feel like themselves again.

What do you think about. I mean, this is going to be a big question. You're probably not ready for me to completely ask this, but I have a big, strong opinion about insurance dictating treatment. Because I know as soon as I recommend to somebody, like, tell go. Like if I were to say, go to Joanne Blokes or go like, go here. First question is, well, does insurance cover it? Does it what? I'm curious your opinion around insurance that I'm gonna. I'm gonna share mine because, yeah, I have a big one, but I'm just. I want to hear what you have to say.

Oh, I loathe insurance. It just is not set up for us to win. And we don't generally take insurance. We don't work with insurance. First of all, the thought of trying to figure out how to do all of that and how it bogs down the system and how many people you have to have to just do that and how much cash you have to have, because, you know, oftentimes they. They won't, you know, pay a provider or they'll hold back money. And it's just a whole huge game that I do not want to play. And. And I get that it's a sticking point for people because that's the system that we are used to, but I swear to God, people will come to me and say, my labs. They'll cover my labs, so please let them cover my labs. And we've done it for patients. I've warned them, and we've done it. And the labs will come back that they'll owe thousands of dollars. So we'll have a lab for, like, 250. That's it. And then instead they'll say, nope, my insurance will pay. And nope, their insurance doesn't pay, because they're not. The insurance is not set up to do. To run 100 biomarkers. Insurance is set up to be like, what's wrong? I'll run one or two, and if something else comes back, I'll run maybe another one again. But they're just not set up to really, like, look at things holistically and try to figure out how you feel better.

Okay, I'm gonna say this because I'm not a doctor, and I don't own a telehealth company. Like, I'm gonna. I'm just a person with a mic, and I have a very strong opinion about insurance. So. And I understand that we've really been trained to think and take insurance to dictate our treatment, but insurance is fully a business. It does not care about us. It does not care about our health. They are looking for a bottom line, and I always knew that to some level. And then I had my own experience where I looked at what we were paying for my family insurance. It was ridiculous. Like, a crazy amount. And it never covered anything. Like, literally never covered anything. And if it did cover, the amount of hoops you had to go through to get it to cover was obnoxious. So I had a personal story. I lived in San Diego. I moved to Arizona. I had paid extra for insurance that actually would cover out of state. And then I spent. I probably spent 13 or 14 hours on the phone trying to get him to pay me back for a colonoscopy. It was, like, the stupidest thing, a preventative colonoscopy after age 50. And after that, I just. In a temper moment was like, I don't want this anymore. I cancel. Like I literally canceled. And it's the best I could have done because when you looked at, when I looked at what I had spent on insurance for a year and what it actually paid for, it was nothing. And instead I'm just a huge fan of health shares for anything like whether you're using, you know, so I went to. There's a million health shares. People are going to message you go, what? I don't, I don't have one specific for you. But health shares are a way that you can, you're basically, you're being responsible. Like you're paying a certain amount in for an emergency and then you out of pocket pay for your wellness checks and things. And I will tell you, me and my husband have saved so much more money. We just pay out of pocket for the labs that we want or the doctors we want to go to. And that's. And it's less than it. So I just have a thing. I, I think insurance is a very business driven. Like they're just looking at bottom line. It's. They're not actually looking to help us currently. And it's so, it's wild. So I would say what I want women to know. And I understand people are gonna go, you're preaching from a place of privilege or whatever. And I understand they're gonna say that. But I'm gonna tell you, you're probably spending more on the insurance and your costs. You're spending more on your actual. What it's going to create in your health versus if you can find a way to pay out of pocket and, and take care of your health. That's just, that's just my opinion.

That's honestly like soapbox. That's honestly like the best biohack. Because I don't, I actually don't know much about health share, so I'm gonna look into that as well. Because what scares people is the, the o. I don't know if I can. The oh shit moments. Right, where you're like, or I broke a bone or something's seriously wrong. I need a surgery. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you need it for, right? Yeah.

But even if you do insurance, major medical. Right. It would still do that. So like, to me, I would almost like you'd ra. If you need to do regular insurance, do it as a major medical. And I'm not, and I'm not meaning to turn this into a whole insurance conversation here, but you have major medical. You still can pay out of pocket for what you actually want. So when you go to the doctors you want, you go to the telehealth that you want, you, you do the things you want. And then if there is an emergency, like, like emergency medicine is something I'll always believe in, obviously, right? You have an accident, you need a surgery, of course, but that's when it would kick in, you know, that's how I feel.

It's beautiful. And I will agree with you that like I run into this a lot where people, honestly people want the free, you know, and it's not free. You are paying and getting bad service. So if we can take that out of it and go like how valuable is, is your health? Like health care should cost you money because in the end, like you can want all the things in the world when you're healthy, but when you're unhealthy or there's something that happens, that's the one thing that matters to you, right Is your health. If something's wrong, that's like, oh, what do I do now? Because there's nothing else matters like the fancy jewelry and the clothes. None of that matters if you're unhealthy. So there is a real value to health care. And, and we shouldn't just be going, what's free? Like what is my insurance paying for?

And the thing is, if you think of how you think like if you all of a sudden break hurt something, you have a lump, you have something going on and you're like I need an MRI or whatever. And they're like, well you have to go to this doctor first and you have to wait for that appointment, then you have to get a recommendation and then you got to get it pre approved for your insurance. By the time you actually get the mri. We could have exacerbated, created the problem where if you're cash pay and you say I'm not going, you get, you like cut the line. So yeah, am I saying this? I don't believe know that it's fair. I'm not saying that at all. That's a whole nother conversation. Like I think there's a whole health care crisis here. But in general I'm taught right now for women listening that are not in that part, they're not, it's not like.

I'm on, I, I can't afford like you're in a place where you actually have the income, you're okay, I'm talking to you right now and you're worried about your health. Please stop letting insurance dictate your treatment.

Treatment.

Let's still make better choices for ourselves. Get the help you need if you can, but don't let insurance dictate your treatment. Different conversation for somebody that's. I'm not talking about that right now. It's a whole other topic about struggling to even get food on the table. And I, and that's a big, that's a big topic. But that's another conversation. But I think most of my listeners that are listening right now about hormones or things like that, they are in a space where they could do it. They're just thinking they're brainwashed that my insurance has to pay. So.

Right.

How to bring that up? My tan. I love it when you. I want to, I kind of touched on Peptides for a second here, but I want to bring that back up a second because Peptides is a big long category. It's, it's, there's all kinds of things. They're like BPC157 is something I use post surgery for recovery. GLPs are getting a lot of attention especially in the weight loss world, especially in the inflammation world. There's, there's a lot there. What is Joanne Blokes like thoughts on GLPs? Where do you see that going? Do you think this is like a, how does that have to be handled with women?

Well, we've been a fan and been prescribing them since like probably four or five years ago. I think we were before the whole craze came where everyone's like holy moly. So yeah, we've, our medical director has been using them for a while and I can tell you personally they've also helped me, kind of helped me on that post.

Pregnancy, post journey to really get back to feeling myself again. I think that they're a powerful tool and everything we do is that exactly a tool. So they need to be used in the right way and for the right person and with the right guidance and the right check ins. But I do think they have a lot of great, you know, we're seeing a lot of great results if used the right way. So I'm a big fan. I just believe that you, you know, you want to make sure you're getting them from the right place. Again, no like research place. You want to get them from someplace that's, that's tested for purity and sterility and you want to work with a clinician that can help you because again, it's a tool. You have to do a lot of other things with them. I, you know, I would, I hate it if Someone's just like, I'm just using this to not eat, to lose weight. It's like, no, like, you need to do all the things to really make the best use of it and make them work for you.

And then do you have a preference on, like, semaglutide or tirzepatide or retuotide, or is that, like, do you do all of them, or how do you even help somebody navigate that conversation?

Yeah. So ultimately, I think tirzepatide is a little bit more superior than semaglutide in terms of how it works and the less side effects and stuff like that. However, there are some people who, you know, were on sema, switched to tirzepatite, and then the tirzepatide didn't agree with them. So again, it's still one of those things where it's not one size fits all. It's very personal. I'm excited to see what the. The retra comes out to be, but we haven't tried that yet because right.

Now that's a research peptide. Right? That's, like, in that category.

I'm sure it's coming soon, but I.

Think the reason a lot of, like, influencers are selling it and saying it's a superior. Again, Natalie's opinion, I don't know for sure, is just because they can. Because it's a research peptide, it's not going through. So I. So I feel like the. But you can only get, like, obviously semaglutide and tirzepatide through an actual prescription. And so I don't know. That's my theory of maybe why. But I'm hearing a lot about it being superior. I don't know.

Yeah, we'll see. We're waiting for the studies and the science to actually come out on that one, but I'm pretty hopeful that it's. That it is better. Yeah.

And then do you also help prescribe that for people that I know a lot of, especially women listeners, they've learned about possibly doing small doses of it or microdosing it? I know my good friend Tina Moore. She. She introduced us to the idea of microdosing a long time ago for inflammation, like tiny doses. Do you do that with women? Have you seen that working for women?

Yeah, that's working great. And I tell you, for me personally, it's working great. And for our patients. And I also love Dr. Tina Moore. I've had my clinicians go through her training on that because she really.

That's even better. That's incredible. Her Training for sure.

And then what we do too is also we pair people that are on that journey with a health coach and that coach is there for like monthly check ins to be like, how are you doing? How are your symptoms? What have you changed in your lifestyle? Are you getting the protein? Like, are you making sure that you're eating enough and all that kind of stuff.

Okay, wait, I just, you just made me love you and your company so much more because Tina is a good friend of mine and you all, for those of you that haven't listened to her on mine, she's a big fan of true microdosing. Like, so she talks about tiny doses, like literally like such a tiny. And one of the big things that we, her and I have talked about is most doctors, many of them do, they say they're microdosing, but they're not really. Like they're still doing an over prescription. So the fact that you just said your people go through her training just made me so happy. That's awesome.

Does she know we're all big fans? Yeah, we've, we've talked. Yeah, I talked to Tina too.

That's incredible. Yeah, so see, she, she says GLP's done, right? That's, that's exactly that. That makes me happy. That makes me happy. You do something else unique and I have not through the app and I'm excited to try it. I was doing it through another company for a while, but I haven't done this in a while. You do custom supplement packs? Can you talk about that for a minute?

Oh, yes.

Super cool.

Yes, it is cool. We call it, it's a little bit funny, but we do call them the smartest supplements in the world. But the reason is because, you know, we were never a supplement company. We didn't start out selling any type of supplements, but because we were doing these big labs and then taking people through the results, we just kept seeing all these deficiencies on the labs. And so we used to just say, okay, find this on wherever. Find this here, find this here. Go out and buy eight different bottles of pills. So really we wanted to make that easier for people and make it make more sense. So what we do and why we think they're smart supplements is because what we do is we pack six to eight supplements into one, like grab and go sachet. That is based solely on your biomarkers. So if you go through a big lab with us, we can go like, these are your top deficiencies. We'll put them into a pack and we'll ship them to you. And then you can retest, you know, six months or a year later and go, like, maybe things have shifted. You're getting what you need there, so, you know, you can change out what you have in your pack. And we really think this is, you know, supplements is such a huge industry and it's like the wild, wild west. And there's some good ones and then there's some not so good ones. And most often people are just buying based off, you know, oh, some someone said this is great for something or someone else is taking it. So we think it's really a great thing to be able to see your labs and go, you know what? This is what you're actually missing. And that way you're doing exactly what your body is, is, is telling us.

Katie, I struggle with this because I'm, I'm going to own up. I'm part of the problem here. I, I, and it's me and my ADHD curiosity brain. I get very caught up in like a new supplement or this idea. And I, I don't, I, I have never shared a supplement with my audience if I hadn't personally, like, learned about it and tried it and used it. And I do stand by what I share. But I've also told my listeners and my audience that I switch out my supplements a lot. It is never like, I've been on this for my whole life. It's literally based on blood work and understanding and how I, and what's going on. And I'm rigorous about testing every, for me, every 90 days. So I always tell women, you don't need everything you're seeing online. You don't need everything that I'm sharing on my podcast here. It's take a listen and you try it on. If it makes sense for you, you add it in. That's, that's how I feel. But what I like about those packs, and again, I haven't used your packs and I haven't done packs in a while, but when I was doing packs, it was cool because you could see and you're, you're actually low on vitamin D, you're actually low on vitamin C, you're low on manganese or whatever it is. And instead of you having to open up all pills every day, you have it right there to bring to your breakfast or your dinner or whatever. And then I would supplement with kind of like the add ons, like some things that I actually am adding in that is maybe not part of it. So I love the whole idea of the testing and then setting It.

Yeah. And what's also interesting too is if you test and, like, say you're on a vitamin D, because that's an easy one to talk about, and your levels aren't increasing, then, like, why aren't they? Like, what's going on? You need to look at your gut health, right? So it's kind of like a really nice loop to be able to actually fix the problem instead of just like buying expensive supplements and maybe peeing them out and, you know, them not being useful.

You can really tell what's your vision for women in the future and what you see for joy and blokes. Like, if it's five years from now, 10 years from now, what do you want to see as being possible?

You know what my mission, my vision is just more access for more women. I really want, you know, we do serve men, of course, too, but, you know, who cares about them? I'm focused on women really feeling their best and having the information, the education, and the clinicians to guide them to really have a really nice second half of their life. Because we do so much for so many other people. And I feel, you know, most of us, especially me, didn't always take care of myself in my earlier, you know, my first half of my life. And I feel like it's really our time to do that so that we can not only live a long life, but like, those days are energetic and happy and joyful. And so that's my mission, to reach more people, empower them, and really be a part of their health journey.

Would you.

What about.

Would you have the best clinicians? Like, who do you think? If you looked at your team in five years, like, who do you. You're walking, you're. You're meeting with your whole team. Like, who are they?

Who. Who are the people? You know what's funny? Like, I love people that care, first of all. And I'll tell you, we had this one clinician. She's now our. She leads them all. She's our top team lead. She came to us as a patient, but she got off the call, and I immediately got a message from my other clinician that was on with her, saying, this person works at one of our competitors. So I guess she's just, you know, I don't know why she came to us. I just want you to know, like, maybe they're trying to check you out or something. I'm like, okay. So I actually reached out to her. I'm like, hi, can I answer any questions for you? And she was like, actually, Like, I actually just like the way you guys practice. And so I wanted to order what, you know, I can't get at my curtain. And I was like, why don't you just come work for us? And she's like, okay, done. And so, like, it's that kind of like people that share the same vision, people that really care and are invested in people and education, like continuing education. Right. On what's the latest and greatest on how to help people feel better. So it's those type of people, people that I really want on our team.

I, I know you're not going to negatively talk about any companies. I'm not going to ask you to, to name anyone specific, but there's some specific companies that everyone keeps hearing, like, use this one or we hear a lot of ads for it or whatever it is. What do you want people to know when they're, when they're deciding, like, seriously deciding, because it's confusing for women. And obviously Katie was super generous and I'm going to give you guys a way that you can do this really inexpensive to try if you want to go through and try, join blokes, which I'm going to do myself too, by the way. But what do you want women to know? Because it's confusing. Like they hear an ad for such and such or whatever. Like, what do you want them to know or consider?

I don't want women to be confused and I don't want them to be fearful. I think, you know, honestly, I love my competitors because they make me better. And so I think it's wonderful that more and more places are popping up to help women because so many are underserved. There's enough women to go around. And so I have nothing negative to say. I think we're not going to be for everyone, just like my competitors are not going to be for everyone. So I think women are very smart and can kind of figure out what they need for themselves based on, you know, based on what they know is good for them. So we're one great option. And then I know there's several other great options as well.

Can I share my Natalee list for a minute?

Yes, please. Okay.

This is what I look for. And this is why, like I said, I've talked to many different companies. Number one, I like woman owned for this particular topic. I'll tell you why. And I know it's you and your husband and I got all. And I'm no offense to him, but I like that you're. I asked you, I said, how old are you are you actually. Because I want someone that's actually walking through. And I'm not looking for someone just running a business. Like, that's the first thing. So I was like, who is. Who's behind this? Like, who actually are you, actually? Because then you get women. So that was the one thing. The second thing, I look for companies that test. There's a lot of them out there that don't test, test. They're just going off of how we feel. I don't like it.

Yeah. If you don't mind me interrupting. Like, we've been testing since the beginning. And that was one crazy thing that was actually really hard for us was a lot of the doctors at that time were saying, don't test. It's a scam if people are testing you. And in my. I'm just like, holy moly. That's creating fear and it's false. I'm. If anyone thinks it's a scam, I want to put them through one of our labs and show you not to.

It's a scam.

Yeah.

So anyway, no, that's like saying, I'm gonna help you anything. Like, you gotta get on the scale before we can start. Like, what the heck?

You have to test.

I don't. I put my foot down on that one.

Yeah. And it's changing now. I believe it's changing now for the. For the right, for the better. So. Good.

Okay. So that. So Natalie's thing is I want a woman that understands two. I want test three. I don't, I don't want. I want people that are actually learning and care. So I love, like you said about Tina's course, I love that you said. Said that. That you go ongoing training. I also, I love partnerships. So I don't want any doctor that talks over us or down to us and doesn't work as a. As a partnership. I had an experience recently and I got really into it on a review. I don't ever leave bad reviews, but I left a bad review. I was mad. I was. I had to do a pre surgical clearance. And that doctor was so dismissive of me and told me my patch was going to give me blood. Like, just stuff that was not true. And when I challenged it, it. She, like, I'm the doctor. It was very. It was bad.

I want a partnership. We're not idiots. You know, like, as midlife women, we've earned our stripes and we know, we know deserve better. Yeah. So that's kind of my list. But I love it. Katie gave us a very generous if you go to. It's so it's. I'm going to write it in the show notes but it's Joy and blokes J O I and blokes B L O K E S. That's for your husband. If you want to do for the men Joy and Blokes. Joyandblokes.com also known as Joy Wellness but joyandblogs.com forward/natalie forward slash Natalie. And the reason you want to do that is it's 50% off your labs. Can you share about that? They get labs, they get a consult. What is, what do they.

Yes, all of our labs, we've got three different lab options and all of them come with a clinician visit which is like the key and I don't think we do a good job of like you know, saying that it's included. So we've got a most accessible lab which, which is the complete hormone 56 markers. It's 149. And that's again with the clinician visit. 30 minute clinician visit. And then we've got an advanced which is in, you know, something like 300 something and then we've got a comprehensive for like the biohacker or something if you can't figure out what's wrong. Like that big one is a great test that tests 110 biomarkers and that.

One I think I'm getting. I think that's the one I'm getting.

That's the one you're getting. And that also comes with a 60 minute clinician review. So it really depends like where are you at with, you know, what you can afford and based on who you are. Some people don't want to talk to a doctor for an hour and some people do. So. Really? Yeah.

20 million questions.

So there's options.

I feel like we need to. I want to understand. I mean I want, I like asking questions.

I do too. I do too. Yeah. I want to know.

So okay, so it's. Oh, so I said so Joanne blokes joiandblokes.com Natalie Jill or if you just go to their website and you forget that, that make sure you use the code Natalie Jill because I want you to get the 50% off the labs. 50% off plus smart supplements if you want to do that. 15% off their other products. So you really get some, some great hookups and connections there. I am personally going to be going through the process you all and I will share about it. So don't you worry because I share, I share my whole life. So I'm going to share about it because I haven't personally gone through their process yet, but I'm really liking it and I'm excited to do this. So thank you for doing this with me today. Thank you for chatting.

Yeah, thank you for having me. You're awesome. You're so fun to chat with and I absolutely love the Natalie opinions. Beautiful.

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