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And what I didn't know at the time is that that excruciating pain that I had felt that day was because the actual disc was no longer just bulging, it had fully ruptured out. Welcome to Midlife Conversations. I'm your host, Natalie Jill, and I'm passionate about having amazing conversations that matter to us midlife women. On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated health topics and breaking them down simply so that we can optimize aging together. I share actionable steps to help you thrive in what believe are our best years to come. Join me as I interview the most inspiring people living their best midlife years and dive into essential topics like hormone changes, health optimization, weight management, blood sugar, emotional well being, relationships, beauty, and so much more. Most people look at me and think, she's strong, she's fit, she's healthy, she can't possibly be dealing with pain. And the truth of the matter is, I do deal with pain on a daily basis. And today what I'm gonna share with you is my long journey with back pain. I wanna tell you all the things that I have tried, all the things that I have done, what I've experienced, what I've learned about it, and the lessons that pain has taught me. And I'm gonna share some very simple things that you too can do if you're navigating pain in your body to get out of pain and start feeling better. And I'm gonna tell the whole story around this journey. Now, before I jump into this whole story, I just want to make sure you know that 80% of adults experience lower back pain specifically. So if that is you or someone you know about, just know you are in quite the company. A lot of adults experience lower back pain. And if I were to personally look at MRIs of all midlife people, we would see a theme of degenerative disc disease, DDD on many people. Now, some people with degenerative disease, they never feel it, others totally can. Everyone is so unique. But if you deal with lower back pain or pain in general, you're gonna wanna lean into this episode. So I'm gonna give you the whole backstory, no pun intended, of the journey that I have been through with my back. And I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna be doing this coming July to hopefully put an end to this whole situation. But I'm gonna take you back, my gosh, 20 years. So I'm 53 at the time of recording this for you, but about 20 years ago, it started with hip pain. I Had this continual hip pain. Now, I was the 20s that wore heels a lot and went on long walks, shopping, whatever, with heels. I was always in heels. I, I, in fact, I think about my old sales days doing cold calls and walking around in my suits and heels all the time. So I was already not in this amazing position for to, to be healthy with that. But my hips always hurt. And I remember going to an orthopedic surgeon and they would inject cortisone in my hips, and it would never really solve the problem. It wasn't until almost a decade later that I learned the hip pain was actually stemming from my lower back. Now, a little fact, if you have hip pain, you might want to check out your lower back, because when you have degenerative disc disease or issues in your lower back, your hips will take a lot of that weight. It'll take a lot of that force. Therefore, you start feeling it a lot more in your hips. So sometimes hip pain is actually stemming from your back. So I used to get those cortisone shots. It wasn't doing a thing. I then started learning that it was really stemming from my back. And this started with chiropractic care helping me, physical therapists, even orthopedic surgeon noticing that I had some degenerative disc on my MRI dry, and I even had what's called a bulging disc. So if you look at your spine and you've got these spaces, we have these little, I call it like, it's like a jelly donut in between all of the spacers. And that's your disc. So it's a very soft piece of piece of matter. So if we have a bulging disc, if you hear of a bulge or a slipped disc, that means that jelly is slipping outside of that donut just a little bit. And the reason we feel that so much is it rubs up against nerves. We can feel that in our body. We, it creates pain just having that bulge. So I had that, and I navigated that with years and learned through chiropractic care how to help manage that. But then fast forward to about eight years ago, and I was on set doing quite the extensive workout video. Jumping, hopping, doing all the things. And my back was really hurting, and it was hurting unusual. And I was pushing through, I was on set, I was in my head, I'm like, I can get through this. I can do it. And, and what I didn't know at the time is that that excruciating pain that I had felt that day was because the actual disc was no Longer, just bulging. It had fully ruptured out. All of that jelly came out of a disc. It had fully ruptured out and it wrapped around my spinal cord and it was on a whole bunch of nerves and it was excruciating pain. It was excruciating pain. I remember I got off set and I remember calling my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, and saying, I'm in so much pain, I don't know what to do. And I had. I remember in my purse, I had myodol cramp medicine. And I kept taking that, taking that, taking that, and I just could not get myself out of pain. Well, that next morning, I woke up and my back had stopped hurting, but my right leg had stopped working. I had developed something called foot drop, and my whole right leg was not working. So my, I was dragging my right leg on the floor as I walked. This was quite scary. I'm not gonna lie. I didn't know what was on. I remember, I remember thinking it was like piriformis syndrome. I didn't know what was going on. I remember traveling back to California. I was in Florida, traveling back on the plane in this really uncomfortable, weird position, dragging my leg. It felt weak, it felt numb. I didn't know what was going on with it. I got back, I messaged my orthopedic surgeon friend. He immediately got me in for an X ray and he said, we've got a problem here. You have a massive ruptured disc and this is not good. It's wrapped around your spinal cord. You're going to have to have this removed. So I didn't know anything about back surgery at the time. I didn't understand all the choices. But I ended up finding a Dr. Chul Kim in San Diego who was a specialist in laser endoscopic spine surgery. So what that is, it's a very minimally invasive surgery. They go through your back, a tiny little, little incision with a laser, and they break up and remove that disc rupture. And if you're watching this on YouTube, I'm gonna actually show what that looks like. So they, they remove that disc rupture through this laser process. This was fantastic because it instantly got me out of pain. It took all that messed up matter that was all over my nerve. It instantly got me out of pain and my nerves slowly, very slowly, but they did started to heal on that right leg. So I got almost all of my strength back on that leg. It took several, several months, took years to fully recover. But I would say it's 99.9% recovered that leg and footage from that incident. Now, at that time, I had asked about a disc replacement or a spinal fusion, and Dr. Kim at the time talked me out of that. He said, you don't really want to do either of those. This was, you know, again eight years ago. He said a disc replacement at that time is not, does not have high success rates. It was like an 80% success rate. And a fusion would mean you would lock and seal this empty space together. You would fuse the, your spine together so it would no longer move. So, yes, that would take you out of pain. The reason I didn't do that is I intuitively thought that's going to change my mobility. I don't like that. And when you fuse something together, you run the risk of the disc above it and below it or having problems. So I was going to, I was worried about my disc above that to start having problems. So I opted not to have a fusion, not to have a disc replacement. I healed, so I was great for a while. And then the pain started to navigate itself back to my life. It started to kick in again. And what I had to study and learn was that if I could create a really strong environment with my core, my abs, really, really strong, really strong, which I worked to really master, and I could really develop my glutes, then I could take that L5s1 lower back out of the equation. So that's what I did. I worked really hard to develop a strong core, which I did. And there was a lot of exercises off limits, but things that were plank based were really, really great. And I learned how to do glute exercises like glute bridges, things that were non compression, so not weighted squats, non compression glute exercises. Learning to activate them would always take that lower back out of the equation. Now if you're someone dealing with lower back pain right now, just to play a little game, if you stand up and you squeeze your glutes, like really squeeze your glutes and squeeze your core and almost like envision pushing your ribs down to your thighs, like that kind of position while you're squeezing your glutes, you'll notice that you get your lower back out of pain. It literally takes it out of pain, that motion. So I got really vigilant on how do I do that to stay out of pain. So that worked for a long, long, long, long time. But I also learned that I would still have flare ups every now and then. So this is when I learned and hopefully this Will help you too. Three really important things and this is really important. Number one, learn to activate your glutes and your core. That takes you instantly out of pain. Learn to rely on that versus the disc. And going along with that, I learned not to sit as much. The more I was sitting, the more you're getting this type hip flexor feel and you are actually pulling and putting more strain there. So learning to stand more took me out of pain and also walking more. So on the exercise front, the first thing I learned was core glute activation. Stand and walk more than I'm sitting and walk every day. That was number one. The second most important thing I picked up and learned was the critical importance of eating an anti inflammatory diet. Now what does that mean? Now anti inflammatory is how I built pretty much all my fat loss plans for people, for women especially. But what we talk about a lot in there is eating an unprocessed natural real food diet. Now there's, I'm a huge fan of talking about what do we add into our diet versus what do we not add in. I, I hate deprivation. But there's three things that really tend to cause a lot of inflammation. And if you're navigating pain, this is something you've got to take seriously. Number one, sugar. Sugar activates pain. And I'm talking about processed sugar, not your fructose from fruit. But when you eat a high sugar diet, you are putting your body in an inflammation state. You are not helping your pain situation. The other two things that really spark up inflammation and I tell my autoimmune clients this and I'm also going to tell my injury clients this, these are not great for pain. I am not villainizing these two things. I'm just telling you if you're in pain and you want some help, try eliminating these. Dairy. Dairy products are highly inflammatory for many people. And grains, grains. Now I personally don't have most grains because I'm a celiac. But in general, even if I was not a celiac, taking out sugar, grains and dairy will help alleviate pain. So those, that's the second thing that I got really, really hyper vigilant on of. So one was the movement. Two, two was the inflammation anti inflammatory. Three, the third thing I had to get really, really hyper aware of is this idea of the pain cycle. Now let me explain, when we are in pain, especially lower back pain, what happens is we go, I'm in pain, I don't want to move. And this happens to me by the way, every time I wake up in the morning, like I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I'm in pain, I don't want to move. And what happens is if we do not move, the pain escalates. And the more we are laying around and not moving, the more pain we create. And the more you're laying around not moving, the less likely you're to eat. You're going to want to eat this anti inflammatory way. So then we start eating not supportive foods and we stay in pain. So moving our bodies, breaking through that pain cycle is going to be critical to get you out of pain. So that's what I. Every day I wake up and I'm thinking, hydration, get my minerals in. Am I going to eat anti inflammatory today? I get up, I do either infrared or red light or get outside, I go walk. I want real sun, I wanna walk, move my body, I get it in motion and then I am standing most of the time that I'm working versus sitting, I'm constantly in motion. And I do work out most days, mostly for this reason. So really, really critical. So back to the journey and what I'm gonna do about this, what I'm gonna do about this is my pain escalated in the last several months, like really escalated. And it was just really one of those things where it started waking me up at night. I started feeling it in my hips again, started feeling it in my knees, my ankles, other places. And I'm thinking, what the heck is going on? I've got a strong core, maybe I need to work out harder. So what I went to, my thought process was let me develop more muscle in my glutes. If I can make my glutes a lot more stronger, then I'm going to really create this way that I'm taking that disc out of the equation. This is going to be great. Well, what happened is I started adding more weight, trying to go harder, and started adding exercises in like leg presses and squats, which are really not a good idea when you have no disc in your lower back. And when I added that, I really started to feel something's not right. This isn't good, I can't do this. Something is really going on with my mobility. And that's when I happened to tune in. I was listening to podcasts, one of the ones that I was listening to. I happened to hear Max Lagavier, if that's how you pronounce his last name. I happened to be scrolling his podcast and I saw this episode about his back pain and I thought, huh. So I listened in and he was describing my exact problem. L5s1, he had degenerative disc. Now, he didn't have the full rupture that I had, but he had pretty severe degeneration there. And he was sharing about a surgery. He had a specialized surgery with this mobile disc replacement. Now, I had never heard of this. I'd heard of disc replacement. I hadn't heard of this particular time. So I listened to the episode. I looked up who that surgeon was. I'm like, wait, this name sounds familiar. I reached out to Dr. Cho Kim, who was my previous surgeon. And I remember that he had told me back when I asked about other options, he had given me two things. He said, a fusion I'm not a fan of. He said, effusion is like driving 100 miles an hour on a highway. He said, if it works, it's fun, it's great, it's amazing. But if you crash or have an accident, it ruins your life. And that's what he had told me about a fusion. So he really was not a fan of me ever getting that fusion for me. But he said, but if you're ever desperate, if this ever escalates, if this ever starts to auto fuse in not a good way, and I'll explain what auto fuse means in a minute. He said, then you're going to want to go to my particular doctor that specializes in this specialized disc replacement, and you're going to want to go to him because he's special. So I remembered the name. So I messaged Dr. Kim. I said, can you please connect me with him? He did. And long story short, I am having this disc replacement in July, so talk about that in a second. But let me tell you what auto fuse means. When I got on the phone with the surgeon I'm having the disc replacement with, he reordered a CAT scan for me. He reordered an mri. And I was actually shocked. You all. I'm going to put a picture here. If you're watching on YouTube, I want you to see this. So this is what happens when you do not replace a disc. When your disc ruptures out and you have nothing there. Over time, that will start to collapse and they will auto fuse together. Now, I was under the belief that when you auto fuse together, that's a good thing. It's like, oh, you didn't have surgery for a fusion. It's auto fusing. I will no longer be in pain. I thought this was a good thing. It's not a good thing. It's not a good Thing. Why? Because when it auto fuses, you're trapping nerves, you're trapping tissue. You cannot control it. It's auto fusing, uneven. This is why my pain has escalated so much. So the surgery I'm having, I'm having it in July. And y' all, when I first found out I had another surgery, I was like, are you kidding me? I'm bionic at this point. I'm like literally 99 bionic. How many surgeries can a girl have? You. If you've been following me for or listening to my episodes for a long time, you know, this is like surgery 13. Now, granted, I had some serious injuries. I had torn bicep before you followed me on that journey. I'd broken a foot that needed a surgery. I also explanted and had a whole chest wall repair. And that was following five. Yeah, I know, it's stupid. Stupid. I know. I have other episodes about this, but five breast implants over 32 years. So another story. I've already covered that on the podcast. Long story short, I am bionic at this point, so I'm bionic. I almost didn't want to share with you all. I was like, I can't believe I have to have another surgery. I don't think I should share. But you know what? It's real. It's true. It's what's happening, and this is what I'm doing. So the surgery I'm having, it's called msg. It is very specialized. It is not cheap, you all. It is not cheap. I'm just going to be real. This is not easy decision for me. I don't think any of us just have lots of extra excess cash rolling around. This is something I'm choosing to do because I know how active I like to be. I need to keep that going. I plan on aging very well. So I've decided to do it. But what they do is it involves two surgeons. They're going to go through my stomach, which makes me very, very nervous. I've never had surgery on my stomach ever. They're gonna. He said it'll almost be like a C section line under my belly button. Very small line, which. That freaks me out. But they go through your stomach. They move things aside and they put this mobile disc between my spine where that disc could be. So they'll have to open it back up and put that in there. The reason I'm a little nervous is one, it's another surgery. Two, it's going through my stomach. My gosh, that's Scary. Three, you know, it's a surgery, it's a big deal and there is a small risk with, as with any surgery, when I was reading the fine print and talked to the surgeon, believe me, I've talked to him many times and I said, I'm really scared about these, these risks. He said, natalie, you have more risk of more problems by not fixing this than you do by going in. So I'm trusting the process. I am going to be having this done. So this is what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. And I'll keep sharing if you want. So why I'm sharing this journey with you right now. One, because I wanted to update and it's very hard to do this in like a quick Instagram story or a quick reel. So I wanted this to be on YouTube and have a longer form podcast so you understand what's in it for you. Like, what do I want you to take away from this? Well, there's so many reasons we can have lower back pain. So many reasons. But if you are in pain in general, I just want you to hear me really clearly on a few things. Number one, you've got to move your body. You got to find a way. You have to find a way to still move your body. I promise on the other side of that, you get some relief. Two, really take anti inflammatory eating seriously. We need fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, healthy fats, we need polyphenols, we need good for us foods and we need to get rid of the inflammatory foods. That's going to change things for you. Three, learn the correct exercises for whatever you're navigating. So if it is lower back, really take what I said seriously about core and glutes because that will help take that out of the equation. If you're dealing with a shoulder issue, whatever else you have to learn, like, what can I do around that so I can stay in motion? Next thing, take the pain cycle very seriously. Like really think through, can I break through this? And also don't give up on research and learning and asking questions and things change over time. So like I said, this was eight years ago when I originally had this injury and laser endoscopic surgery. I was able to navigate this for a very long time with very minimal pain. It wasn't until this resurfaced a lot later for a lot of reasons that I've now gone back in researching what's my best option here. So I'm excited for that. What am I doing leading up to the surgery? Well, I'll tell you I'm still very much working out. I am easing back on some of the core and glute stuff right now and the reason is is he doesn't want my surgeon doesn't want me to have things auto fuse more plus because I have to go in and open things up. The more muscle I have, the more challenging that could be. So I'm easing back a little bit. I'm also really paying attention to what I'm eating, the supplements I'm taking, cleaning things up, getting myself fully ready for surgery. So that's what's happening there. So if this was interesting to you and you have more questions on this topic, please let me know. I'm happy to do follow up episodes around this. I'm also if you are interested in seeing some of the exercises that I recommend to stay out of pain. If you go to my YouTube channel, it's under Natalie Jill Fitness. If you're on YouTube right now, make sure you subscribe here so you can get notifications of future episodes. And I do plan to record more on that and put that all on YouTube, including what I do for the diet, all the things there. So that's the update. I also after the surgery, let's make sure it all goes smooth and well. Once I know I'm healed and happy and all the things, I will likely invite my surgeon on and see if he'll have a chat with me because I think that would be cool for you all to hear that and I will share all the things. Thanks everyone. Thanks for tuning in to midlife conversations today. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and tag me NatalieJillFit and our guests on social media. The best way to support the show is by leaving a review. Send a screenshot of your review to supportataliejillfitness.com for a free digital DSR journal download. And just a friendly reminder, I'm here with a microphone, not a medical degree. Half the time I'm sharing things that I read on the Internet or learned just as you were learning it while I'm interviewing the guest. 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