001: The Secret to a Billion Dollar Creator: Get Paid in Equity

We have to dare to dream and dare to ask the greater question, right? Like, what's the next thing that I could do? And it usually scares us because it's like, oh, that's going to be a lot of work. It sure is. It sure is going to be a lot of work. Attention is power and creators harness it better than anyone else, but they're not using that attention to create the biggest impact possible and are vastly undermonetized. Hi, I'm Rachel Rogers. My co-host Nathan Barry and I believe you can be a billion-dollar creator. Sound impossible? Over the last 10 years, we followed each other on our own quest to build billion-dollar companies. We've studied creators and seen how entrepreneurs build traditional audiences and use them as a launching pad for a massive business. And it got us thinking, if it can happen for them, it can happen for us. And if it can happen for us, then why not you? Billion Dollar Creator is a show teaching creators how to capture attention and turn it into real wealth. We will deep dive into brands, celebrities, and entrepreneurs who have done it before and show you how you can apply it to your business as an everyday creator. Join us weekly as we learn from both the wild successes and the missed opportunities, the grand gestures and the integral mistakes, and through that, help you become an expert at building your audience on your journey as a billion-dollar creator. Welcome to Billion Dollar Creator. A podcast by myself, Rachel Rogers, and Nathan Barry, where we are going to be breaking down how different creators can be making a whole lot more money from whatever it is that they're doing from their audience and their creativity. So Nathan, what made you write the Billion Dollar Creator essay that caused all of this to happen?

Yes. Oh man. Well, this is one of my favorite topics. I could, talk about this endlessly. And I've said that to so many people. I said that to you and other people. It's like, great, well then do it on a podcast because we want to hear these conversations to keep going.

Yeah.

So yeah, the series is just going to be us breaking down what we think creators should be doing, what they're actually doing, what works and all that. But your question of what made me write the essay is it really comes from this, I guess, idea that I have that most creator businesses are terribly under-monetized. Like when you have an audience and that audience gives you attention, you can direct that attention wherever you want. And so what we see is people directing that attention to things that you and I have both done, right, of books, courses, digital products, speaking, all of those things which are a phenomenal business. So it's not saying that people are doing it wrong when they're doing those things. It's just that there's another level to it. Maybe if that's like the 100 and 200 levels, you know, if we're going back to college classes, this is getting into like the 300 and 400 levels of like, okay, what truly is possible? And so I love studying the businesses that, or the creators who have taken an audience and turned it into something absolutely next level. So an example that I like to talk about is Mark Sisson, who years ago ran a blog called Mark's Daily Apple. And it was about paleo recipes, right? And lifestyle and all of that. You know, one of the first talking about like clean eating and everything. If you think about how he'd monetize that blog, you can get to, you know, affiliates, digital products, sell advertising on the blog, right?

There's a—

yeah, there's like a, you know, $2 to $4, maybe $2 to $5 million a year revenue stream there, which is just incredible. But what he actually did, he, well, he went down that path. And you might say like, okay, he has this attention that is very well monetized. And I agree. But then what he did that I think is just absolutely brilliant is he said, oh, well, for everyone following like a paleo diet, it's really hard to get like a mayonnaise or a ketchup or a salad dressing that matches that criteria. And so he started one of his own, he started Primal Kitchen. And he used his initial brand and his attention to launch it, to get it promoted and like placement in the first few grocery stores, and then ended up building that up into this juggernaut. I think it took just over 2 years and they sold it to Kraft for $200 million. Wow. I'm like, I'm doing the math. I'm like, it would take a very long time at a couple million dollars in digital product revenue to equal that $200 million acquisition from Kraft. And so yeah, I would argue that his well-monetized audience that he had before was wildly under-monetized because there was a higher ROI place to direct that attention. So anyway, that's the theory behind it. And like I said, I could talk about this forever.

Yes, I love it. And I'm so excited about this podcast, which is why I said yes, because I think that it's asking us to dream bigger. What's the next big thing that we could do, right? What goes beyond What's typical or what we see everybody else doing and allows us to step into the highest level of ROI, right? And also too, we could be providing more value, right? So like it's one thing to teach people how to eat healthier, but it's another thing to actually give them the product and solve what's the next problem that they have, right? And solving that problem, which is what Mark did by actually creating the, you know, food products that people can use in their homes. So I love it. And I also think there's another side to this where creators don't realize how good they are. I have some friends who have TV shows now, and one of them was telling me that creators who create online are better at creating than TV networks. And, you know, like basically all of the things we see on TV or on the radio or whatever, we are actually better at it, right? And but we don't realize that we are. And so we can see outside outsized returns, just like some of those networks and production companies do, right? We have the ability to do that. And I think this is also the evolution of the internet business growing up, right? Like, we started as bloggers and, you know, had the goal of like, if I just wanted to quit my job making $41,000 a year, I'm like, if I could make that same money from home, I'd be thrilled, right? Like, our goals were pretty small. And then when we were making $100,000 or $200,000 or $300,000 a year on our own terms, that was epic and Amazing. And we were like, oh my God, I almost feel like I'm printing money. Is this illegal? Right? Like it just felt too good to be true in some ways.

I've had that moment.

Yes, exactly. And now this industry is growing up. And so we're now starting to see the value of attention that we have acquired. Right. And we're now starting to see the value that we can create, that it goes beyond just blogging or just providing a service or just creating a course. Now we can create physical products and so much more, right? And so that's what we're gonna, we're gonna unpack on this show, which I'm really excited about.

I love it. When you were reading through the Billion Dollar Creator essay after I first wrote it, or, you know, even just refreshing for kicking off this, this recording, was there a creator that stood out to you where you're like, oh yes, I love that story in particular? Either one that I wrote about or one that you're, you know, it made you think of?

Yeah, well, I thought of— I don't remember her name, but the woman who started Glossier. I thought that was absolutely fascinating, right? The example that you put, it was the first example, and it was a great way to grab people. Yes, yes, Emily. I mean, creating a fashion blog, like, no one would think that a fashion blog can become a billion-dollar business, right? Like, that just doesn't seem likely. And if she had that vision, I'm sure if she told anybody, they were like, don't quit your day job, right? And I'm sure she was discouraged by many people because it just hadn't been done before, right? Or we just haven't seen it recently. Maybe it has been done before. Maybe Vogue started out as a printed newsletter. What do we know, right? But it's not a common thing that you're going to see. But it was so brilliant of her to say, hey, I've been studying the beauty secrets, right, of celebrities and people who have access to all of these things. And why not just create my own version that's accessible to my audience? It's brilliant and it makes so much sense. So I think that we have to dare to dream and dare to ask the greater question, right? Like, what's the next thing that I could do? And it usually scares us because it's like, oh, that's going to be a lot of work. It sure is. It sure is going to be a lot of work. But there's a huge upside as well, right? And it goes beyond just selling a service that you can directly deliver, but creating a real large company, right, where you can reach people in way bigger ways.

Yeah. Well, and there's so many examples out there, a lot of them in the celebrity world, where if you think about Ryan Reynolds is a favorite example of mine just because of what he's done fairly repeatedly. You know, you— I think when I wrote the article, maybe he'd sold Aviation Gin but was still working on Mint Mobile. Uh, and so you could see this like playbook that he was was running. And, you know, since then he's gone on to sell Mint Mobile for $1.3 billion or something ridiculous like that back to T-Mobile. It was really the biggest competition for them. And so watching it play out, I think that's really common where we see the whiskey brands or like Casamigos tequila or, right, all these examples. And it's easy to think like, well, yeah, of course George Clooney can do that, right?

Right.

Beyoncé can do this, Rihanna can do that, you know, but I'm I'm just a creator. I'm not like on their level. And so I think one thing that I really want to do is help creators bridge the gap and understand that the principles are the same.

Yes.

Right. They might be operating on a different level. We might not come out of the gate and be like, hey, tequila brand, here's $50 million a year in sales, like right away.

Right.

You know, whoever, I'm the Rock, you know, because I've spent decades building an audience. It might start on a smaller scale, but the rules and principles are exactly the same. And it just takes this fundamentally different way of viewing your audience. And it's really a shift from like short-term cash flow to building long-term equity in a business. Like, that's the one through line that you'll see in all of this is that everyone has equity. And it's not about, hey, what can I get paid for this brand endorsement or this TV deal, you know, or this one-off affiliate promotion? Instead, it's, hmm, no, I'm really only going to take this attention and direct it to things that I own.

Yes, exactly. Well, Beyoncé's famous line, pay me in equity. That's how that works. And we all need to think about like, how can I become somebody who gets paid in equity? What does that look like? Right. And even if you haven't built an audience yet, it's exciting to think about what it can do for you, right? Because people are always trying to basically buy attention, right? Run ads, advertising. And it used to be that only networks or publishing companies had that kind of attention. Now we can create it on our own. And now there's so many tools, right? ConvertKit included, that can help us actually reach people in ways that we never could before, where it would be so hard and would be so much money and so much work. Now all of that is available to us. So it's totally possible. It's just how big can you dream, right? And the other thing too that's fascinating to me about personal brands in particular is that there's like one for everybody, right? Like whether you are like a stay-at-home mom trying to connect with other mothers and talking about just like the dark side or the challenging side of being a mom and raising kids and how messy it gets and, you know, just learning how to laugh about it, for example, like you can have a huge audience from that. If you're just somebody who wants to nerd out about Star Wars and like imagine alternate universes, right? And like, you know, creating different stories for the characters, right? And building on it like that. There's an audience for that. So it's like, it's almost like whatever you're into, you're probably not the only one, right? And so you can reach all of these people and then think about how can I create value for them? And that's really what it is. It's not just about extracting value from the audience. It's actually providing real value because that's what actually makes money. And I mean, I'm sure that there are plenty of billionaires out there doing damage in a lot of ways, and maybe their whole business model damages our culture or our climate, right? Or a variety of things. But how can we be people that provide value, right? And provide so much value that it causes us to have a lot of resources.

Yeah, I think there's so many things with that. Like when people build that amount of wealth, it usually comes from delivering an incredible amount of value, I think, in most cases. But it's thinking about how to not just be a conduit for another brand to do, like, to get the attention, but for it to actually be the thing that you own and like the product that you want to make.

Exactly.

You want to dive into a few of these rules?

Yes, let's do it. If you want to create a billion-dollar brand, right, a billion-dollar company, and become a billion-dollar creator— and even if you don't, right, like, don't get caught up in the word billion, right? If that's not your goal, that's cool too. The point of it is just to make you dream bigger, right? Think bigger and think on that $300, $400 level instead of the $101 level, right? So step 1, what is step 1 to becoming a billion-dollar creator?

Well, I think the first thing is to build more than a personal brand. So now I say this as someone who— my website is NathanBarry.com. My entire thing is personal brand and I like, I think a personal brand is the best place to start. Yeah, especially early on as a creator, right? If we're getting going, well, using my own example, I started talking about design and then later I was talking about marketing and now I'm talking about building companies and audiences. And the through line, the consistent thing is that it's me. So the fact that my site is NathanBarry.com, that's, that's easy. It's consistent. I didn't have to start like iosdesigntutorials.com and then marketingfordummies.com. And then, right, some, you know, I didn't like kill off an audience each time. It was consistent with me as I figured out what I was doing. But my billion-dollar product, my, you know, billion-dollar brand I'm working on is ConvertKit, and that's much bigger than me. I use my personal brand to launch it, you know, just like Mark Sisson used his personal brand to launch Primal Kitchen, but they're separate. And I think a lot of people who are too attached between their personal brand and the thing that they sell, they're going to really struggle. So the first step is to disconnect that, find something much bigger. And actually, when I wrote the essay, I mentioned Michael Hyatt because I wanted to use real examples.

Yeah.

So I mentioned Michael Hyatt and talked about how he's, I think, limited the growth of his business because it's so tied to his name. And he actually emailed me afterwards and I did an article and he just said like, yep, I saw the same limitations. And so I started this transition of building something much bigger than, you know, just my name. And so he's built the full Focus Planner, his business accelerator products and all of that to go much bigger. And so it's just interesting watching people make this shift and go much bigger than their personal brand.

Yes. Somebody who I think we're about to see make the shift is Amy Porterfield. Because she just hired a CEO for her company. And, you know, like, it looks to me like she's on the pathway of starting to extract herself from every piece. And so once you start doing that, right, it makes sense to transition and rename. And this is what I've advised my clients forever. Never, ever name your business your own name. And mainly the reason is so that you can build a brand that's separate from you, that's more easy to sell, right? And also just from a trademark, copyright, protecting the IP, creating a, a brand is gonna have more value than just making your own name a brand. Like, your name, of course, can have value, right? Beyoncé, right? That's a name that has— that comes with a ton of value. However, being able to be in a place where you can really scale it beyond just what you have the physical ability to show up for and be a part of is key. So I think that that's another example of somebody who's probably going to start moving away from the personal brand and building it more of a company brand.

Yeah, I think we'll see a lot more of that. And what you're saying about it being brandable, there's just a big difference between like the personal brand of Nathan Barry and something that is branded like Beyoncé, right? Or saying this, you know, if you go to— that's still someone's name, obviously, and you can't, you know, there's not an umbrella corporation under that that then could be sold off or something. But there's a very deliberate branding that goes into that.

And it's quite different than Well, like, even with trademarks, you can register the trademark for a personal name if it is famous, right? It has to be famous, and I don't mean like internet famous or famous in your corner of YouTube, right? Like, you got to be a household name, worldwide famous, and right, in order to register a name, right? So celebrities can register a trademark for their personal name, but the rest of us cannot, right? So that's trademark law recognizing that, that, but however, if you make up a brand name, you can register that today on day one, right? The, the day you start building that company and you can start adding value. So everything that you build under it creates value, right? Like basically the value of the name grows as you continue to invest in it and invest in that name being more well-known. So, but I think going beyond the personal brand is really important, but it's also important to start there because if you think about it, right, like I had $300 when I started my business, right? You have nothing to start, right? You have no money, no expertise, no network, or at least when I started, that's where I was, right? And so what I did have though was whatever expertise I already possessed, right? I went to law school, so I had legal skills, I had writing skills, I had the ability to present, right? And I had my name, right? And that was it. And so when I started my business, it was Rachel Rogers Law Office. That was like the initial first business that I started. And then eventually I changed it to Rogers Collective because I started hiring other associates in my firm. And then when I moved into business coaching, Hello7 is what I named it because I wanted to name it something complete— had nothing to do with me. I want this to be a company that can have value if I sell it. If I'm not attached to it anymore, I want it to still exist and be serving people. And so thinking ahead, right? And just like assume that it's going to be big, right? That's what I encourage people— assume it's going to be massive. You know, I was just telling Nathan we should hire a producer for this podcast because we should just assume that's going to be like huge, right? So let's just start there and plan for it. I think instead what we tend to do is plan to be small and teeny-weeny. And so that's why we name things after ourselves, or just like our ideas about what we can do with this brand or do with this attention are so small. We can't fathom it being bigger. So that's part of why we wanted to do this podcast, to encourage you to think about that future that you could be stepping into. And it makes it a lot— it's not like you can't transition. But it does make it a lot easier if you start with a brand name instead of starting with your personal name and then have to transition away from it.

Yeah, the nice thing is you can make that transition at any time, but it is much easier if you have that vision early on. So yeah, I think the 100 level, if we're using that analogy, is to start with your name, something that's tied to you. If you don't know what you're going to be creating long term, I think most creators go on this journey where they end up meandering to try to figure out what resonates. What doesn't. And then you can launch the actual thing or whatever it turns into long term. But yeah, if you're trying to build something that's worth millions, tens of millions, a billion dollars like we're talking about, then it absolutely needs to be separate from you.

Yeah. And if you think about it, like, what are some of the things that you offer under a personal brand? You might offer like VIP days used to be like the pinnacle, like, oh my God, I can get paid to spend the day with somebody and advise them and give them advice and help them get a solution, right? Like, that was like very exciting, being able to charge maybe $20 grand or $10 grand, whatever it is, for a day with you. But even that has limits, right? There's only so many days in a year that you're going to show up and do that and work, right? And so there's like a real strong cap on that. Same thing with like hourly work. Same thing with, you know, courses. I think courses actually are truly scalable to huge places, and a lot of other things are. But I think if you think about some of the offers that you create initially, you're just selling your time, right? Which is great, right? You're selling your time, you're selling your expertise, and that's a great way to start. And then you create that value and then you turn it into something else. That's how, uh, what's that company, Franklin Covey? They started out as a consulting business helping people with time management and productivity. Then they realized, oh, like they turned their system into a planner, and then that's the company we all know today. We don't realize that like they used to be just people selling their time, right? And so that's the trajectory. That's, that's the pathway. So you're on it, right? If you've got a business and you've got a personal brand and you're just selling time, great, you're on the path. That's the beginning step, but you just don't want to stay there forever.

Yeah. Okay. Rule number 2 is to sell products and not attention. So this is something that you see, especially in the celebrity space, right, where people are— they're getting paid for, you know, show up and do a movie. Or on the side, right? You're getting paid for brand endorsements. Yeah, do a TV show, all of that. And so like one of my favorite examples when I wrote the article was Kylie Jenner, because I think right about then Forbes had done their cover story on her and everyone was like, she's a billionaire. And people are like, no, she's not. Like, if you add this all up, it's only actually worth $890 million, not a billion. And I'm like, so we can agree that she's within like a few little deviations of a billion, right?

Right.

As far as equity and value created. But what I thought was so interesting about it is at the time, you know, the Jenners and Kardashians were— everyone was emphasizing like the influencer status that they had, you know. Oh, they talked about this brand and it blew up in this way. And I think she was one of the first in the family to say, no, I'm going to own it. You can do all your other, you know, oh, you got paid $1 million to go do this thing and you're like, your hourly rate on that was probably ridiculous. You know, you're probably getting paid $100,000 an hour for this thing that you did.

I've heard, I've heard for for a Kardashian, at one point it was like $1 million for a post for them to post about your business.

Yeah. Which is—

sounds like a lot. It sounds like a lot compared to a billion, right?

Right. I like the line, what's the difference between a million and a billion? About a billion.

They're very, very far from each other.

Yeah, if you think about someone getting paid a million dollars for a social media post, one person is like, oh, that's incredible, how many of these can I do, you know, and all that. And I think the other, like, the billion-dollar creator mindset on it is, well, hold on, if it's worth a million dollars for a brand to pay for this, it must be driving a ton of attention, right? Can I get that attention to my product? Like, they must be driving a ton of enterprise value. For the brand that's paying for it. And so there has to be more value that's not being captured in theory. And so what I love about what Kylie did is with Kylie Cosmetics, she's like, look, I'm going to own all of that. I'm going to sell and pitch my own product and go from there. And I'm not going to just get the short-term cash flow. I'm going to get the long-term equity. And then you can even see Kim Kardashian and others follow this playbook, right? Kim has started a private equity firm and is going out and saying, okay, what businesses can I acquire and then use my brand to accelerate. And that was not happening at all 3 years ago.

And yeah, now it's wild, right? And now she's got her company Skims that she's— I think she has investors on it. I don't know what the value is, but I see it everywhere and I hear a lot of people talking about it. So lots and lots of opportunity, right, to like, you know, go far beyond selling just attention, but selling products that can be scaled massively.

Yeah, I think another thing in that, and I talk about a little bit in the essay, is there's different types of products, right? A lot of YouTubers or content creators might be like, oh yeah, I sell products, like look at this merch, right? Casey Neistat selling a hoodie, that's not quite what we're talking about. Whereas his wife Candice Poole, who has the brand Billie, that's like, that's an actual clothing brand that could grow into something large and substantial instead of just saying like, oh, buy a MrBeast hoodie or something else. You might sell a lot of revenue.

The only people who are going to— yeah, they're only going to buy merch if they're a fan, right? Like your big fans are going to buy merch. But if you create a clothing brand, right, you can acquire new customers that have nothing to do with your personality. You know what I mean? It could be because they love the way that you make this or the point of view or whatever. So yeah, that goes far beyond just merch.

That's interesting. Just the idea of would someone who, who doesn't know me buy this? Yes. They're not a fan of me. Maybe it got to the level of notoriety because of the initial push from you as a creator or as a celebrity. But now will it carry beyond you and someone sees it in a lineup at Target and is like, Yeah, I think I'll buy this one. And they don't actually know who, who you are. And that's really the difference between like creator merch or something that's really just another fairly standard monetization stream and like building an iconic brand.

Yes, it's the same thing. It's so that's— I love that question. And it's, it's the same thing as a course that can make $100,000 or a couple, even a couple million a year versus a course that could be a billion dollar course, right? Would somebody buy this? If they don't know me? Are they buying it because they know my personal brand or my personal story and they're buying it to learn from me specifically? Or is it providing like the— like, is it the framework or the system, right, that they're buying into that's going to help them get a specific result and they don't care who's teaching it, right, as long as they get the result at the end? So I love that, like, detaching it and saying, would someone who doesn't know me buy this product, right, buy this thing without my name attached, right? It's the same way, like, would somebody sign up for this experience if I wasn't gonna be there? Right? Like, that's another way to start to think about, like, detaching yourself from the brand. Does your company create value when you are not present? Right? Like, that's a key part of it. And it's how to think about, like, the products you sell or you can sell at scale.

Right. Who are the examples of creators you can think of, like, on the course side or the content side? That have actually pulled that off of going beyond— yeah, people are buying it maybe for the outcome and it's less tied to the individual name of the creator.

Yeah, there's one that comes to mind and I don't know if they've actually pulled this off yet, but I feel like it's a work in progress and it's a course called Tempest and it's all about going sober, right? Like not drinking anymore. And it's not necessarily for people who label themselves as alcoholics, but it could just be other people who too, who want to stop drinking. And, you know, it's created by someone who's famous. She has a very popular book. However, I think the name of the course and the positioning of the course itself makes it feel like it's not necessarily— it's not about her. It's not her story. That might have got the initial customers, but people are buying in because they relate to the brand and to the messaging, and they want to get sober, and they don't necessarily want to go to meetings, right? They want to be able to do it online in a community. With a specific, like, cohort-based program, right? And that company does have investors, last I heard. So, and I don't know the status of it, I haven't looked at it in a while, but that was one of the first ones that I saw that really struck me as this feels like something that could be huge and not necessarily— it doesn't feel tied to the creator's personal brand.

Yep, that made me think of Sean Blanc with the Focus Course. He has this you know, he's going into businesses and teaching productivity and all that. But the umbrella is the Focus Course and that's their method and everything else. It's still decently tied to his name. You know, he's the one in all the videos and all of that. But if you were buying it for like an implementation in your company and someone else showed up, you wouldn't be like, oh wait, where's Sean?

You know, right?

He's detached enough that it can stand on its own. And I think that's the Stephen Covey thing that you're talking about. Yes, maybe in the business world, like, I don't know if Michael Gerber with the E-Myth, right, has people, like implementers who will come and teach this stuff. Oh, so an example would be like the Rockefeller Habits, you know, the EOS and Traction, like that whole business methodology system. They have their— I'm not a part of that community, so I don't know it super well, but the, you know, they have their facilitators in every city, and you can go and they'll help you with your annual planning and And you're not like, well, hold on, where's the one person who wrote it? It's like, no, this is a much bigger thing.

Yeah. And this, this is, this is a direction to spend a lot of money. Yes, exactly. That reminds me of certifications, right? Which is another licensing, that's licensing or certifying people in your methodology, which is a direction that we're moving in at Hello7. So we have our first cohort of certified Hello7 coaches that are going to graduate soon. And so, what I'm trying to do is essentially duplicate myself, right? Instead of me having to show up to all of the trainings, I'm training, you know, this first cohort is a little over 100 people. So, I'm training 100 people to be able to deliver the business coaching that I can deliver, right? And so, then my focus becomes training them. And then, there can be Hello7 coaches all over the world. My job then becomes building up the brand, right? So, that the more well-known the brand becomes, the more our Hello7 coaches can get hired, right? So that's another scalable opportunity, you know, like creating a certification, like StrengthsFinders, for example. That is a— there's a— Gallup has a certified program, right, where you can become a StrengthsFinders coach, right, and deliver that training to corporations, individuals, etc. And they have, you know, their methodology that really, it doesn't seem like it's changed much. I think they have other certifications as well. That they've probably added to it and that assessment that they sell, right? Like maybe, I don't know, you know, they make their money on the assessment, on the training, et cetera. But that's another education model where you can sort of scale education or scale a course from just— and you know, the basis of my certification started out as a course that I was delivering direct to my customers with my like framework and then taking that framework and training other people in how to use it and how to teach it. So that's another example of how you can like scale at least education in particular.

Yeah. When I see you moving up this ladder of starting with here's something that I'm teaching and then, okay, here's how I'm bringing in other people to teach it. And then, you know, next we know in a little while you'll have franchises and everything else, locations all over the world.

Yeah.

When someone could be teaching your method, everything you're talking about now is in English. Right. But someone could be teaching your method in Brazilian Portuguese and someone else. Yeah. In other languages because these other countries have huge online populations, right?

Yes.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that you can ease into this over time.

Exactly. Like one of the visions that I had for the company that I was— it almost like scared me to think about it because it seemed like too much work and required real estate. But one of the things that I imagined is that Hello7 would have like clubhouses all over the world where like people can have physical community with diverse entrepreneurs and get training and go to events and like just go there for dinner and lunch, like Soho House, right? Go there for entertainment, but like have a community of fellow entrepreneurs wherever they are located, right? Like a clubhouse where they can hang out. And then it's also like have a membership to like be able to use those clubhouses when you're traveling for work, when you're hosting events and that kind of thing. So that was like the, you know, the further out vision from where we're starting right now. And you got to be okay with the steps, right? Like you're just going to— it is ladders, right? Like you talked about. So, and it's about like leverage, right? How can I, with each step, increase my leverage, right? So I can create value at scale, at an even greater scale with each step on the ladder. So, yeah, absolutely.

Okay. So rule number 3. Is to drive higher customer value through recurring or repeat purchases. And I was trying to break down all of these trends that I saw, you know, basically like identifying here's a whole bunch of creators who have done this and what are the common threads between all of them? One thing I realized is 95% of them or more are some kind of product that you buy over and over again. It's a consumable like food and beverage, you know, whether that's MrBeast with Feastables or the Primal Kitchen, right? Like the bottle of ketchup, it runs out. You know, the more you enjoy this product, the more you're going to need to buy it. Or it's a software product, right? Like, like ConvertKit or, you know, a whole range of things. Mint Mobile is a great example. You pay $25 a month or whatever the price is every single month. And I think so many of creators' initial products that they sell are one time, right? Like, I have purchased your book once. I purchased it to gift it. But like, that's kind of the extent of it. You're going to get one sale, maybe two or three instead of the thing. Like, what if someone was buying? What if it made sense to buy your book every single month no matter what? I mean, you get that with memberships.

Yes.

But those don't quite scale in the same way. And all of these other businesses they have to have something that you buy effectively on repeat.

Yes, that's brilliant. Yes. It like that also makes me think of like Honest Company. I used to when my kids were little, I had 50,000, you know, of their diapers and the wipes and the creams and the shampoo, right? Like I used all their products and you can literally on their website put it on repeat so it gets delivered. You have to get the timing right because I had a closet full of their products at one point. I had to turn it off. So they were coming faster than we were using it up. But it's like, it's a perfect example of like, they were all things that we had to replenish. And it's like, you don't want to run out of it. You don't want to run out of your baby stuff because you need it all the time. You run out of diapers, you're going on a late night trip to find something open 24/7 because that kid cannot be put down to bed.

That's where the phrase shit out of luck comes from?

Yes, probably. But this makes sense in licensing too. For example, like if you are certifying somebody, usually there's an annual certification fee and like an annual conference for everybody who's certified to like get updates on the education that they received. So, or to have community, you know, the, the professional community around it, there can be recurring fees with that. I, I'm trying to think of other things that have that sort of consumable kind of feel to it, but that's an excellent point. It's got to be something that is, that has a recurring fee, and it doesn't have to just be monthly recurring, but it has to be recurring in some way, at a minimum annually.

Repeat purchase of your favorite tequila, that works fine, you know, but it needs to be something you buy over and over again. Now, an exception to that— oh, actually, I'll give you an example of what I thought was an exception, and now that I'm talking about, I realize it's not— is I talk about Beats by Dre. And so amazing music business that Dr. Dre has done, produced all this, all of his own music, very wealthy and successful, but you know, almost all of his net worth comes from selling Beats by Dre to Apple for $3 billion, right? And so I was about to say, it's like, well, headphones, you're buying expensive pair of headphones and you're not— that's not a repeat purchase. And then I thought about how when I connect my AirPods to my phone, it says like Nathan's AirPods Pro 4, as a reminder that like I've gone through 4 pairs of, you know, for the little AirPods because they keep losing them. Exactly. I was like, wait, no, that's the reason I'm traveling right now.

And I've got 2 pairs with me. I got the ones in my ears and then I got another pair that I wear on the plane. Like, so it's so interesting. Yes. Yeah, you can definitely go through a lot of headphones. I have like my desk headphones and then I have my purse headphones and then I have my airplane headphones. Not exactly recurring, but listen, if it breaks, I'm going to go out that day and buy another pair, you know, because I can't live without them. So yes, that's interesting.

And this wasn't one of the rules. In the original essay, but also thinking about a product that is shareable in some way, right? Like, I see you— if I sit next to you on the plane and you put your, you know, your AirPods Max on, well, now I'm going to realize, like, you don't want to chat, which is a great visual cue. And I— that's half the time if I'm wearing headphones on a plane is to send that message, like, don't talk to me. But in that, right, I look at that and I'm like, oh, she's wearing those. I was thinking about buying them. Maybe I actually will. Or I see a coworker wearing them on Zoom or any of these things where you get to see the product in action or it's a social product, right? Like I keep coming back to George Clooney with Casamigos Tequila. That's a social product. You know, we're inherently trying and saying, I'm like, Rachel, try this tequila. You know, that was—

yes.

And so I think a lot of these products that are really successful are going to be ones that are visible or social in some way. And then I, you know, I'm going to ask you like, oh, how do you like that? Right? Or it's so good that you want to talk about it.

Yes. Yeah, it's true. Like, I think of, you know, people who have home goods lines at Target. For example, Tabitha Brown, who 6 years ago was an Uber driver, and by building an audience, I think initially on TikTok, became so well known and then, you know, had all kinds of She has a lot of attention, basically. And she's so lovable. Everybody who's a fan of hers just loves her. And now she has physical products in Target. She's had a New York Times bestselling book. I'm sure she's done a lot of other things as well, but she's got this product line at Target with clothing and home products, right? Like clothing are things that you're going to buy consistently. Physical products at home, like I can't tell you how many potholders I have in my house, like 50 million, you know? Things that you would gift, right? Like things like that that are the kinds of things that you're gonna buy again and again. So I think they get the point. But yes, shareable, social, there's a reason to consumable that people are gonna buy it consistently. Or even like, for example, what do you think about events? Because I think that that's an interesting model, especially like we just launched ROI, which is our big conference. And when I walked in the first time and just saw the experience, I was like, oh my God, this is gonna be huge. Like I think that conference could that in and of itself is a huge asset. Like, that is sellable because it's the kind of thing— conferences are like that, that are recurring. You go to a conference, you love it, you love the vibe, you love the people, you love the community, you love the type of speakers that they have, and then you're gonna go every year, right? Like, it becomes your conference that you go to every year, you know? Like, you have those ones that you hit up every year, and that can, that can become that. Like, people going to South by Southwest every year, for example. So I'm curious what your thoughts are about that, about events' ability to become a billion-dollar brand and the recurring revenue from that.

Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. I think in most cases when people do events, it's not a billion-dollar brand or doesn't have those attributes because they do it poorly. But at the same time, you know, there's a lot of conferences that have sold. I think of Ryan Deiss with Traffic and Conversion. I went to that conference a couple of different times. I think they sold and then they told people a few years later, like they disconnected the actual announcement of the sale from when it happened. And that's a transition period.

And it's super smart, super smart because it's like, no, the people are going to be looking for things to get funky, you know? So don't, don't announce it immediately. Yeah.

I remember when J.D. Roth sold his blog, Get Rich Slowly. It was one of the first big exits in the blogging community. I don't remember what year it was. It was, maybe 2013 or something like that. And he announced that and people were like, oh, now the blog is going to go be garbage. Like everything that I cared about is gone. And he's replied and was like, we actually closed the transaction a year ago.

Right.

And you've been reading and loving it ever since. And they're like, yes, right, exactly. So yeah, having that, that overlap because then people are like, oh, I actually only started reading a year ago, you know, you demonstrate that ongoing value afterwards. But so with events, there's a lot of examples of events that are massive and have exited for really solid multiples. I think of Web Summit. I don't think they've sold, but you know, this is an event that's grown to 50,000 attendees each time they hold it, maybe more. The CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, uh, is at a pretty massive scale. So yeah, I think they definitely could be, so long as you're focused on the brand in the right way. And then if you understand the network effects of the event, right? Like the way at a more intimate event or something like South by Southwest, it's created a feeling of like, you have to be there. Then like, if I get hooked in and I'm plugged into a community, I'm like, oh man, Rachel's going to be there and all of this, or like, all my friends are going, why am I not there?

Yeah.

Then it turns into this self-fulfilling prophecy where like, like all your friends are going because all your friends are going.

Exactly. Essence Fest is another example of an event that is huge that every year I feel like all my friends are going and I'm not there, you know? And so it's around July 4th and I feel like I'm always traveling overseas or whatever. I don't know. I just am never on point, but that's another example. So yeah, I think events can be huge and how we're doing this, we named it ROI the Millionaire Summit. And it was like one of the first examples. Nah, I shouldn't say first, but it was an example of, I was barely on stage, right? Like I was on stage at certain times. I definitely spoke too much. That's what I discovered. When you're hosting an event, it's hard to be the main speaker at a conference level, you know? But I felt like Oprah, like I got to sit in the audience and cheer on all these incredible speakers and just like be a part of the community and the crowd. And I had so much fun and it was not about me. Like at no point was it like about, it was not the Rachel Rodgers Show. My picture wasn't everywhere. You know what I mean? And like, I loved that. Like, I was so excited. I think some people struggle with that part, like divesting themselves from the brand and pulling themselves out of it. You know, we can get attached to the attention and to it being about us. I am not one of those people. I do not have this problem. I am totally fine with it not being about me. I am totally happy to share the stage and highlight other people. And that's really— the event has a point of view, which is that we need events where, you know, white guys aren't the only speakers, right? So instead of doing the, like, you know, it's mostly white guys with one white woman thrown in and one Black guy for good measure, right? Which I think Traffic and Conversion was guilty of for many, many, many, many years, probably still is. I decided, I like, you can be mad about it or you could do something about it. So I'm like, you know what, I could do this better than them. So let me just go and do it. And so Putting, you know, having a stage where it's only people of color and people with disabilities and entrepreneurs of all different backgrounds, queer entrepreneurs, right? So like you're seeing yourself reflected on the stage and, you know, of course you can speak at ROI. We allow some white guys, only a few, only the good ones. But, you know, like basically creating something that was missing in the marketplace, right? Just deciding that we're going to do that. And not— it wasn't— it's about the fact that it's missing. That's the value prop. It's not that you're going to come to see me speak.

I think it's the— well, first, I totally resonate with all of that, right? Running an event myself, I'm on stage very little.

Yes.

One talk. I'm not the emcee. You know, I might come up and welcome people or something at one point, but that's kind of it beyond my keynote. But one thing that you said that really stood out to me is— or what I'm imagining is the times that you sit back in your life and you're like watching something happen and you go, I could do that better.

Yes.

Right. And anytime you do that, you know, whether it's like you buy clothes, you're putting it on, you're like, oh, it's just not like I could do better than this. And I'm not even, you know, yes, fashion designer, or I don't know these products. So what I would look for is the overlap between the interests of yourself and your audience, like what you have attention around, and the things in this world where you say, I could do better. Yes, probably the seed for a billion-dollar creator business.

I love it. So true. Oh my God, such an excellent point. Write that down, y'all. And you know what's so funny? I was trying to think of like, of course it takes years, right? Like you have a great idea just like you did with ConvertKit, and then you kind of like half-ass commit to it forever. And then you finally one day say, okay, I'm all in, right? And that's what happened with this because actually the event that made me want to create ROI the Millionaire Summit is mastermind talks, which is a great event, except that there's zero diversity on the stage, you know, and honestly not much diversity in the audience either. And that bothered me. And I remember talking to Jason about it and it didn't really bother him, right? He didn't care about that. What his thesis or his premise for what he was trying to create is not the same as mine. And that's okay. Right. But I wanted to create something different because it was a priority to me. And, you know, especially as someone there who's like one of two women of color in the audience, right? It's like, really? That's it out of 150 people? You know? And so like, if that bothers you, you can harass the founder and tell them they should change it. Right. But they may not care about that. But if you care, you go create your version. Right. And that's what, that's exactly what should be done. And of course that was years ago that I was going to mastermind talks. So it took me a long time to finally launch the thing. But now it's done and now I'm so glad that I did. So don't feel bad if it takes you forever, but don't, don't let those things nag at you forever. Like at some point, just decide you're going to do it, even if it's super small scale, just to get it out the door. And then you grow, right? Like that's what it is. A billion-dollar brand, all of them start with like one customer, right? Like with one, you know, entry point, and then you slowly but surely scale it. So, okay. So what's the last point?

All right.

And actually, let's review. So number one, for building your billion-dollar creator brand, you have to go beyond the personal brand. Number two, sell products, not attention. And then number three is drive higher customer value through recurring or repeat purchases. And then hit us with the last one.

Yeah. So the last one is to choose a better business model. And specifically what I mean by this is choose a business model that is valued in the broader investor markets, not because investors are who, you know, we should make all our decisions to please investors or that's the endgame or anything else, but because there's a reason that they value some businesses higher than others and we can write off those reasons or we could try to learn from them and I'd say learn from them. So as an example, a blog is worth—

well, okay, so can I qualify that? I think we should. I completely agree. We should learn from them. And it doesn't mean that they can't be disrupted. It doesn't mean that something that's never been done before can't be done. So if you feel strongly about it and you definitely, if you have an audience for it and a market for it, you can certainly try it. But I agree that we have to study what exists right now and allow that to help us make decisions. It doesn't mean that what exists right now is the only thing that will ever exist, but it is, it does leave clues, right? It does give us, it points us in certain directions about how things are valued.

Yeah, absolutely. And so there's a lot of things that might be good for short-term cash flow that aren't as good for long-term value. So in the software space, I think about OptinMonster, which is this— started as this WordPress plugin for capturing leads. It integrated with ConvertKit and MailChimp and all the other tools. And that has some amount of value as a WordPress plugin. But really what they did is they went through this difficult process to rewrite the entire tool and build it from scratch as a standalone SaaS product, software as a service. And in doing that, They switched categories, right? Right. WordPress plugins are viewed as an add-on to another ecosystem. It's not its own thing. It's not standalone. What happens if WordPress declines? And so they really made themselves a lot more like long-term viable by taking this different approach. And so that's a better business model. I think about Andrew Wilkinson with MetaLab, you know, an agency business is they were wildly successful, but that gets valued at certain multiples because You're constantly looking for new clients. You know, it's a feast or famine business based on what's happening in your industry. And so what Andrew did is he said, great, I'm going to take this high cash flow business that doesn't have a high multiple, you know, for what agencies exit for, and I'm going to use that money to go buy like really high quality, durable businesses that I can hold for a long time.

Yes.

You see that a lot of people getting started in one business type or industry and then trading up to one that has recurring revenue you know, high multiples, uh, and is like long-term durable and defensible.

Okay, let's talk about that for a second because I, I love that example and this is something that I advise my clients who have million-plus businesses and, you know, as they continue to grow is start pulling money out of that business and putting it into other industries so that you are more diversified, right? So like pulling some of your profit and putting it in, you know, mutual funds, right? And just, you know, making smart long-term investments or buying real estate that has recurring revenue attached. So pulling it out of your online-based business and putting it into another asset class. And that's essentially what you're saying, right? Like instead of having a plugin, have a SaaS platform that is valued more highly on the marketplace if you should decide to sell it, right? And so that's another, it's another example of doing it, you know, within your own business is, you know, trading up on the asset class. So I think that's super smart and something that really all entrepreneurs are doing. Like, even if you're making $100,000 a year, start investing $1,000, you know, like whatever you can into the stock market or real estate, right? So that you can start to trade up on assets. That's just such a smart money lesson, period. In addition to becoming a billion-dollar creator.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of different lessons in there. Just thinking about how it's taken differently. If you go through different examples of creators and think, okay, what would I do if I was in their shoes? There was one thing to hear a few examples, but what actually made the difference for me was trying to write down more and apply it myself and then say, oh, who else has done this? Like, one that I came across that I really like is Vani Hari, who had a blog called Food Babe, and she had built a ton of attention both in the online space and mainstream media. Around like higher quality food and, you know, what needs to change in the industry. And that could be a solid business, right? Like some of these other examples, but it was never going to be a, you know, a billion-dollar business. And what she ended up doing is teaming up with Derek Halpern, which I've known Derek for a long time. And so I think this is the funniest thing because Derek, you know, is this brash content creator, like in your face, talking about marketing and copywriting and all of this and he just completely left that world and is building TruVani with Vani. And they've just built this incredible business, you know, selling health food products.

Yes, I remember that completely. I love it.

And he took all the things that he was teaching. He's like, forget it. I'm just going to be a practitioner.

Yes.

And I'm just going to apply it all in this new business. And you can tell anytime you talk to him, he's having so much more fun. He loves applying this on a day-to-day basis, and they've had incredible results just scaling up everything they're doing. But I would just say, like, keep finding examples because there's all these places where, you know, you're going to find something that resonates with you and matches your audience. You're going to be like, oh, I don't know what to do. You know, oh, that— here's someone doing something similar, let me clone that over.

Yes, for sure. I agree. Like, I used to always think like, oh, we should just build software. Like, what kind of software could we build in like the Hello7 universe? And to be honest, it still hasn't come to me. If y'all have a software idea for me, feel free to pitch it. But, but it's just not like, for whatever reason, it's just not coming, you know? And so that's not the direction that we're going in right now. So instead we're going into these other directions like the coach certification and the event. For now, and we'll see where that leads us as well. What stood out—

I think also don't force it.

Yes, exactly. Like, you got to let it find you, you know. I totally agree. It's just like a book idea, right? You're like, oh, I want to write a book, but I don't have anything that I feel passionate about writing about. You just kind of have to wait for it to come to you until you find that thing that you want to rant for 250 pages about, you know. But the thing that stood out to me when you were talking about opt-in monster is like the fear, right? Like the fear that they must have had at that company is if WordPress goes out of business or if some new company comes along and becomes the WordPress killer, right? We're out of luck, right? Like we're out of business. And so face that fear. What is that fear that you have? And then face it. This is something that they teach in law school. There's so many lessons about business in law school, but one of them is like Yeah, exactly. But one of them is like, if there's something that you think that the opposing attorney has, or they have something like they have a fact or they have a piece of law or a case or something on their side that they're going to use in their argument, you can't hide from it. There's no hiding from it. So address it, right? What's your narrative? How can you spin that? How can you show that it actually proves your point and makes the case for your client, right? And so it's the same thing. What is that thing that makes you feel like you might go out of business one day because of it, or that fear that you have, like, this thing in my business is broken and I've got to fix it, right? But it seems so hard to fix or too expensive to fix. If you face that thing head on, that might be the thing that unlocks your business and turns it into this next level billion dollar brand, right? And so for OptinMonster, it was essentially stop being a plugin, right? And build your own platform. Way more work than building, you know, a plugin. You can build, I imagine, in way less time than you build an entire software platform. However, there's a— that's part of the reason why they're valued differently, because they're not easy. It's not easy to reproduce. So I think that that's an important thing for people to think about, like what scares me about my current business model and how can I address that head on and build the thing, right? Like build the solution to that problem.

Yeah, I agree with all of that. One of the things that was interesting rereading this article a few years later is I talk about Taylor Swift. One thing that I say is that You know, I think we go for the line. She owns 2 private jets and has a net worth of over $350 million, but she isn't going to become a billionaire through albums and touring. It's going to take smart investing. She's got plenty of time for compound gains, brilliant endorsement deals— think Air Jordans— or create a product company to bring in that extra two-thirds of a billion. Would you say I was wrong about this or very wrong about this?

Totally wrong about this, I think.

Yeah. So she's just Her tour itself has done $1.3, $1.5 billion, and she's just getting started.

I don't know exactly what it was. The last number I saw was like $500 million for her Eras tour, but that was just the North America. Oh, okay. Even at $500 million, right? Like if one tour can create $500 million in value, and that's just the North American leg, and then she's about to go to Europe, right? So that's part 2 of the tour that maybe generates another $500 million, or even her next tour. That generates $500 million. So I think you were wrong about that one.

I think so. So I just Googled it. CNN right now, 2 days ago, Taylor Swift could break $2 billion for Eras Tour.

Wow.

North American ticket sales alone.

Wow. Yes. So tours can definitely make you a billionaire when you're Taylor Swift. Yes. I mean, she rules just don't apply well for her, for Beyoncé, like certain types of people, right? They have such a massive audience, such a huge number of fans. And even people like— I feel like there are people going to this concert who aren't even the biggest fans but are just curious, right? Or just want to attend because it's amazing entertainment, you know, and they're going with a friend or whatever. So I feel like, like you said, network effects. I feel like we should have a little like bell or something that rings every time we mention network effects because it's Nathan Barry's current obsession. Something should go off like, here he goes again. But anyway, yes, when your network effects are operating at the Beyoncé and/or Taylor Swift level, you can make a billion dollars from a tour, but it is grueling, right? Like they are, you know, For Beyoncé in particular, I know that she's got a show going every other day. And then when she's in the same city, I think it's every day. I think she just did Atlanta 3 days in a row. And that is intense. I will say, though, one of the things that I love— this is definitely a tangent, y'all, but I'm just going to own that. So one thing that I noticed, though, about Beyoncé on this tour versus her past tours, she's dancing. It's incredibly entertaining. It is exceptional, just absolutely exceptional, the Renaissance World Tour. And she's not working as hard as she has in the past in terms of dance moves where you have to— like, the dancing feels almost more like a party than like really synchronized dancing where you have to hit the move the exact right time, all the dancers, right? Otherwise it's not good, right? And so like, she's moving away from that, and this feels more like a 40-plus, I got 3 kids, right? Like, which both things I can relate to. And I don't have to work that hard for y'all anymore to put on a fantastic show. So I love to see it. That she's like touring and doing this show that is blowing people's minds and she's figured out what matters to blow people's minds and what doesn't have to happen, you know. So even the effort, I think, can be a little sustainable for her. Yes, exactly. Even though it's still a wild amount of effort, it's just not— I don't think she's dancing and going as hard in the dancing in particular as in others. The vocals though are crushing. So, so there's that. But anyway, I could go on and on about that level.

Yes. That level of like consistent effort that these top performers put out. Yeah. I would just think like even the idea of having to show up consistently, like if I have a conference talk coming up, I'm like, am I going to get sick? Am I going to get sick? I've got like 45 minutes. I got to be on stage 5 days from now. Like I can't get sick right now. You know, you think about like the unfair thing, like What are you talking about? I gotta perform for 3 hours straight, 3 nights in a row, you know, every single week. It's just another level.

When I saw her in Nashville, we went to this hotel for brunch the next day, and they were saying that she went there like with some of her, her folks like after the concert. And I'm like, she was hanging out? I imagine she was somewhere like having a physical therapist like massage her and like, you know, I don't even know. Sleeping, hopefully. So I don't know. I don't know how, how they do it. I clearly am not built that way. I whine if I have too many calls on my calendar on Zoom, you know what I mean? For 2 days in a row. Can you imagine? Oh yeah. Billion-dollar work ethic. That's another, that's another podcast. Oh man.

All right. Speaking of tours, we're going to take this podcast on the road. We're going to do our own little launch tour.

Listen, great segue, Nathan. Love it.

Thank you. I pat myself on the back for that one. You know, anytime I can equate you and I with Taylor and Beyoncé, like, I think that's a win because we're clearly the same level as far as performers. Like, our fame levels are a little bit different, but it's just a matter of time.

Listen, we're on our way, okay? This podcast is about dreaming big, okay?

Oh man, okay, so We thought it'd be fun to meet listeners in person and kick this off. So what we're going to do is do sort of a 3-city tour. We might expand a little bit, you know, small things. Yeah, little things. We're going to do New York City, September 22nd, Nashville, September 29th, and Austin, October 6th. If you— I don't know what URL to send people to. We will talk about it. Well, hold on, let me check. This is the most awkward thing, and I'll get back to the show. If I go to billiondollarcreator.com, we should keep that in because that's hilarious.

It's like, wait, I gotta stop everything to buy this domain real quick.

Okay, hold on just a second. Uh, godaddy.com. There we go. I don't know why I still put buy domains on GoDaddy, but here we are.

I mean, I was going to say we've— I've graduated to Namecheap many years ago.

I mean, that just makes you seem cheap. I think all business domains are somewhere else, but I'm just going to do this right here, right now. BillionDollarCreator.com. There we go. GoDaddy says this could be the start of something big.

Yes, it can. It sure can.

Exact match domain. Make it yours. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

Okay. And we didn't have to pay $15,000 for it, which is nice.

No, I'm going to pay like $10 for this.

Listen, you're making an investment. Okay.

Uh, hold on. There we go. No, I don't need to start a website for free. No, I don't need professional email.

No, I don't want any of the add-ons. See, what GoDaddy is trying to do is get recurring revenue from this one-time purchase. See? Sure.

Let's register that for 5 years. I'm ready to pay. Perfect.

5 years.

I love it.

I always do too. So like, I'm— you're right. I am.

Commit long term. Rachel, the thing that I need you to start to do is to think long term and to invest in yourself. Thank you.

You know what, I'm gonna work on that. I don't work on that.

Okay, so where is it going? Hold on.

The tour.

If you want to grab tickets to show up in person for our tour, go to billiondollarcreator.com. Isn't that a great URL? I love that.

You're so good.

Billiondollarcreator.com. You'll see the tour dates. Basically the format, what we're going to do is do a live recording, bring in a guest. We'll announce the guest later for each, each tour date, but we'll do a live recording of the podcast to break down some billion-dollar creator businesses that we're fans of and what we can learn from them. And then we'll do, you know, Q&A, hang out with everyone who's in the audience listening, and then just do a big meetup. So it'll be a live recording creator meetup together. And we'll do that in New York, Nashville, and Austin. You can find all the details at billiondollarcreator.com.

It's going to be fun. I'm so excited. I love, I love a tour.

Yep. I've never done a tour before.

So, you know, I honestly, I have had no, but I have attempted to do a tour many times. And I think what it is, is I keep saying too much work. Never mind.

Now we have teams that do all the work for us. I'm just like, hey, what's the venue for Nashville? And they're like, oh, it's this.

Like, yeah, exactly. This is the benefit when you get to a place where you have an 8-figure business. You don't know where anything is. You don't know how anything works, right? Like, that's not your job. Your job is to think about the future of the business and what's next, you know, but not necessarily to know where events are or what's included in your ticket or even how much tickets cost. Don't even know. You too can be clueless about your business. Just keep listening to this podcast. We'll show you how.

And that's how you know you've made it.

Yes, exactly.

Speaking, speaking of making it, we in our next episode, we're going to break down a few like hypothetical billion-dollar creator businesses, what we would do, some like solid thinking, some just wild off-the-wall ideas, but what we would do if we ran this creator's business. And yeah, I think it'll be fun to apply a lot of these principles to real life. And, you know, we'll just— we'll speculate. And maybe they'll come back and that creator will listen to the episode and be like, wow, thank you, you know, here's 1% equity in this new thing that I'm going to start.

That's why we're starting this podcast, you know, that's the real reason behind it. Get paid in equity. Pay me in equity, that's what Beyoncé said.

Yep. Oh man, it's come full circle. That's perfect. I think, uh, we should probably leave it there.

Yeah.

All right. Thanks everyone.

Thank you for tuning into this episode of Billion Dollar Creator. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. We read every single one. If there is a company you want us to profile on Billion Dollar Creator, send us a message on social media and we will consider it. Thank you, and we will see you next time. Time.