Connecting People With Quality Services and Technology With Tony Krueck of Cox Communications

Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. You want tech and tacos? Tacos in tech you know we got tacos and tech is on smash border green guacamole keeper captains counting beans Contador quentan frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping fire tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times a crappy and coffee my coding yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing coronado eating tacos El gordo, the taco standing puesto lucha libre and sombrero Got a shout out to cost angels by the ocean watch the sunset la Jolla shores Entrepreneurs trying to get funded When San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer Oceanside, the Tijuana estee be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach Tech leaders believe stars are within reach we interview and founders who be shooting for the moon SD Tecos with your host, Neil Bloom. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

Welcome to the Tacos and Tech Podcast. I'm your host, Neil Bloom, and I'm thrilled to have you here. On the Tacos and Tech Podcast, we interview builders of technologies, of companies, of communities, and we do it weekly, so thanks for tuning in. Every Tuesday, a new interview, and on Fridays, we talk about what's new in the San Diego tech ecosystem from a news perspective. So make sure you join us there as well, too. We also have a tech newsletter that comes out every other week@freshbroodtech.com you can subscribe to listen to it without further ado. Enjoy this episode and welcome back to the Tacos and Tech Podcast. I'm your host, Neil Bloom, and I'm thrilled to have on Tony Crook, VP of Cox Mobile. Hey, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me, Neal.

Yeah. It's a pleasure to meet you and learn about some new technologies that Cox has been building. We've been partnered with COX for over six years on talking about the technology that the company, 125 year company has been building, and we're really excited to highlight this new product. Do you want to tell us a bit about it?

Yeah. So Cox Mobile is very similar to some of the other brands that you've seen in the marketplace that are considered what they call MBNOs, which is a mobile virtual network operator. At this point in time, Cox has not gone out and built our own wireless network. We are partnering with other carriers to provide the wireless network itself. But all the other aspects of what it takes to be a wireless carrier is what we built inside of Cox to create Cox Mobile.

Well, I know you have a substantial amount of infrastructure, so it totally makes sense to utilize that infrastructure. When you're already connected to millions of consumers, why not add other options for communications? But we're going to get to that because I'm sure there's a story behind all of it. Want to get to know you a little bit. Where'd you first start? Where are you from originally and what took you down the telecom route?

Yeah, so I was born in Wisconsin, near Milwaukee. So I'm a cheesehead at heart. I've been. I've been married for 22 years. I have two college kids, so my wife and I are empty nesters. I live in the Atlanta area, but I also spend a lot of time at our beach house down on the Florida Gulf Coast. I've climbed a lot of mountains. I'm a recent cancer survivor, which. Yay. And that's probably it for the personal stuff. I've been an engineer by schooling, you know, since I graduated engineering school at the Milwaukee School of Engineering, I've been in the telecom domain my entire career, which started back in Teen 86. I'm aging myself now, so 36 years, I can't even. I couldn't even believe when I thought about it, but 36 years in this industry. Right out of high school, I spent 12 years in the military doing satellite communications. Now some of that was on active duty and some of it was in the Air National Guard. So that started me down the telecom path. And after college I got this really awesome job designing and building wireless networks. Back then, cellular networks were all pretty much analog, if you remember. I don't know, you're probably not old enough to remember those days, but before.

You knew it, I was the handsets in the car. Remember when that first came about?

Yeah, absolutely. But before you know it, I was deploying national CDMA networks, which obviously were all digital, and then moved into different types of network development areas, which set me up to move even further upstream into product, which is where I've spent a large part of my career. Matter of fact, about half my career has been in the network deployment and development side of things, and then the other half has been in the product development and management side of things. So a little kind of half and half across my career, most of it has been spent in the wireless industry. But not always. There's been some periods where it wasn't, but I've only really worked at three companies outside of the military. First was Sentel Cellular Company, which is where I got started into the wireless space, which was ultimately bought by Sprint and became Sprint PCs, which is now T Mobile. So I count that all as my first company. But the second company was a Canadian company up in Canada called Telus. I did that for seven years. They have a wireless network as well, nationally across Canada. And I had a great opportunity to actually live and work out of Calgary, Alberta, which was a phenomenal place to live and work. And then finally, I've worked at Cox Communications for the past eight years, and I would say for the past three years or so, I've been focused on building Cox Mobile, which is now heading into its launch phase. So a lot of work to get to this point, but we are now heading into launching Cox Mobile into the marketplace and so very excited about that. So that kind of gives you a very brief, you know, outline of kind of where I've come from. And hopefully that wasn't too detailed.

No, it was great. It's gotta be exciting, even after all the things you've worked on, to still be launching something new, I would imagine. But from the beginning, part of your career, what made you want to get into engineering?

You know, high school. I actually took a class that was an electronics class. I actually ended up taking three years of that in high school. And I really loved working with electronic circuits. And of course, back in the day, I. My family didn't have a ton of money, so I needed to find a way to pay to go to school. So I went into the Air Force and it was a great way to. To earn. I saved almost every dime I earned in the Air Force to be able to pay for college when the time was right. And. And that all paid off. I learned a ton about communications and networks by doing the satellite communications and had some really cool experiences there, you know, doing that type of work, which if you'd like to talk about, we can talk about some of that. But all that is when it came time to start thinking about what engineering discipline I wanted to go into. It was pretty clear to me that something in radio or electromagnetics or, you know, some kind of RF engineering was. Is the place that I wanted to be. And so that's what I ended up doing is going down the electrical path with a specialty in electromagnet, which is how, you know, radio frequencies traverse free space. And wireless companies all use that electromagnetics to transmit their signals.

Wow. There's a lot of avenues we could go here actually. I think one interesting piece to uncover is that you worked on something in the military which thank you for your service. That translated directly into a career. And I don't know if every veteran has that feeling right away. And so that's kind of inspiring to know the things that you learn serving the country can directly apply towards a very fruitful career in that regard.

Absolutely.

While in the military, you said you're working on satellites. Was it apparent to you already that was going to be a long term communication strategy even on the commercial side.

As far as using satellites as a means of. Yeah, I mean this was back in the 1980s and even back then there were pretty broad set of satellite communications companies and different infrastructures out there. I remember just at one point in time hearing in the thousands of satellites that were already even back in the 80s that were orbiting the globe. And so clearly there was a lot of opportunity in that particular space. Now when I moved into the commercial space, the only part of a typical terrestrial wireless network that uses satellite is the GPS components. The networks actually use GPS for timing and other types of capabilities. But it's very different. The terrestrial wireless networks are very different from any kind of satellite. Direct.

Yeah. And I think there's always been this hope that satellite would take over a lot of communication. It still feels early days, even with Starlink and viasat out there providing some sort of communication. It feels really early now. Yet I can only imagine what the hope was in the 80s of what satellite would be versus terrestrial. So you made an investment on going into the telecom world. Was there always that hope that satellite would ever take over or was it build out the telecom infrastructure and that's the route investment?

There was a lot. I had a lot of interest in the Iridium project. I don't know if you remember that back in the 90s started out strong and it just never played out. The, you know, the handsets were too heavy and expensive and it was hard to get good signals. There was really wasn't a lot of data. It was primarily a voice service. And as everything started moving towards data, primarily data services, things like Iridium started to quickly fall apart. I would say as we move forward, there are lots of opportunities I think, and you're seeing some of those come to life. Matter of fact, if you happen to catch Apple's iPhone 14 launch, they have a new capability within that device that can allow you in emergency situations to actually connect to a Satellite if you don't have cell coverage in the particular area you're in. So it's real. I mentioned before I'm a mountain climber, so that's very interesting to me. So if I'm in the, in the backwoods somewhere and I have an emergency situation, just to be able to make a phone call is something that's very interesting.

Wow. Well, here comes Apple doing what it does, which is taking existing products and packaging it in. So taking the GPS phones, putting it in their phone, or the spot receiver maybe that you use on mountains and putting it in their phone. That's pretty great to see. My start of my career was actually in launching satellites on the rocket propulsion side on the Gulf coast or on the Florida coast actually. So I worked primarily launching Air Force and space shuttle and we did a lot of GPS launches, we did a lot of NRO launches, which, who knows what's on those things. And you know, I'm curious to think like on your end, from when you started working in the commercial world, telecom wise, like did it feel like military versus commercial? Whereas the technology was one lagging versus the other. Because we always talk about technology development and commercial versus military, who gets, who gets the new stuff?

It's funny you asked that question because the technology that was used in our satellite communications equipment in the military was a spread spectrum and it was, it was actually a form of cdma. So long before when I was working at Sentel Cellular and eventually sprint PCs that the analog there wasn't a lot of corollaries. Right. But in the military it was basically a spread spectrum digital form of communications. And several years after I was working in the cellular industry, we started launching CDMA capabilities, which is a spread spectrum digital form of encoding. And so it's funny how, you know, in the military the technology was there probably a decade before we actually started seeing it show up into commercial deployments.

Interesting. Wow. Okay, so you start working in telecom and this is like early infrastructure. There's not a lot of infrastructure around. What is infrastructure investment like for a company just starting out? Like how are they deciding to make the investments in infrastructure at that time when it's early use case days?

Well, in our case, the very cool thing about what we did at Cox Mobile. Are you specifically talking about Cox Mobile or way back in the day, I.

Guess kind of the start. Because you saw the kind of start of telecom to a certain regard. And we're going to take that to Cox of why they're investing in it now. Right. But I kind of Want to set the stage of what were telecom's decisions of infrastructure investment originally?

Yeah. So back in, I would say, the early days, it really was uncertain as to how big wireless and cellular communications was going to be. When I joined Centel Cellular company back then, it was a very small company. Our engineering department was probably 35 people. And it was very hard to find people with any kind of experience in this particular space because they were. It was so new. And there were always questions about, well, how much are we willing to invest in order to make this a reality? And as we started offering the services, if you remember, you mentioned the car phones. When I started, the primary device that we would sell was the bag phone. And that was when you had a phone in a bag. And most of. The. Most of what was in the bag was a battery, but it basically you had to carry around, like a piece of luggage to carry your phone around in, and people would do it. And it was amazing how many people were interested in having something like that. And they thought it was cool, it was trendy, and our subscriber numbers continued to grow. And then quickly you started running into capacity concerns. And so you had to continue to expand and build network and infrastructure in order to support the capacity that was coming. And that became as much of a challenge as just deploying the network for coverage from the beginning. So, I mean, we didn't know in the beginning for sure, but as we started to get more and more coverage out there, it became more mainstream. And as it became more mainstream, there was no doubt when Spectrum was being auctioned to allow us to be able to expand in a much larger way with a whole lot more capacity, that it was going to become a really big thing. And when I went from kind of designing and building analog networks to moving into that digital phase, we had some very large investments, one, in purchasing the Spectrum, but two, building a national network in a very short period of time. And billions and billions of dollars were spent back then to basically try to get this national network deployed, because the goal was to kind of have what we have today. It was a vision of, you know, going from where cellular was to having a device small enough to fit in your pocket. And even then it was only. It was a voice, there was no data, but it was still a device you could fit in your pocket and have pretty good, reliable, contiguous service anywhere you went. That was kind of the vision back then, but it took billions of dollars to get that done. And it was incredible to watch how that all happened. And then it was also Incredible to watch the amount of growth that occurred so quickly because once we really made it a mainstream product capability that really, for all intents and purposes, a consumer electronics play, then it really took off. And at that time I was running, you know, engineering and capacity and it was very hard to keep up. I would try to manage the capacity to meet the demand and it was. It was running at full speed, investing billions of dollars to try to keep up with the customer demand. It was incredible. That was one of the more exciting times of my entire career was when that really took off in that digital wireless space. And just the amount of money and network deployments that were happening was just incredible.

Wow.

Yeah.

And he had a front seat to it. To see national infrastructure and really global at this point. Right. Where you can bring your phones all over the world now and almost be on anyone's network simultaneously. Almost parallel to telecom that was going on has obviously been the other piece of infrastructure that from phones, copper to cable to broadband now, which is largely where Cox is played. Right. So Cox is invested heavily in the other pieces of this national infrastructure and there's many other companies obviously, who have done that sort of in ground investment as well as to, like, what. At what point did those worlds start to merge? Is that for Cox? And I'm guessing, I want to, from your perspective, when did Cox start to say, you know, mobile, fiber and broadband, there's something here that we should be looking at from a product perspective?

Yeah. And I can tell you, I think you probably know that Cox dabbled in wireless in the past. It was many years ago. So it's. This isn't the first time we've attempted it, but like I said, the last time there was a lot of difference in what's versus what's available today. You know, the last time for Cox, there were limited handset options for smaller carriers to compete with. The iPhone had come out. But I don't know if you remember, back then, AT&T had a lock on the iPhone. Nobody else could sell it but them. So it was difficult for a Cox to come in and have a robust portfolio of devices that were, quote, unquote, iconic. So that made it difficult for us back then. Back then, Cox didn't own a robust WI FI network, which is the, as you described, the WI Fi or the terrestrial network capabilities. You know, now that WI FI network is incredible, incredibly important to what Cox Mobile does because we rely on that WI FI network to offload traffic for our customers. And so if we can move what we call tonnage which is basically data usage off of our M and O partners network onto our own. Then we get owner's economics. And so that WI FI network, which really wasn't that prevalent back then, is now a big piece of how we can make this business profitable. So, you know, many companies today that are available that weren't available back then also make being an MBNO a whole lot easier. Like back then you didn't have companies that specialized in consumer debt servicing for phone financing. Right. You'd have to stand that up yourself or simply subsidize the devices yourself. And now there are companies you can just go and partner with to get that done. And we've done that. There are also Things Companies called MVnes or mobile virtual Network Enablers, they basically have kind of a back office in a box, so to speak, where you partner with them and they can provide, you know, all of your back office capabilities. That didn't exist back then, but it's available now. There's also a lot of turnkey companies to handle device protection. So we don't have to stand up our own insurance company. We basically rely on other companies to provide that on our behalf. And then we basically integrate all these together into a cohesive set of capabilities. So that is probably one of the biggest things though back then is there was only one company that was really interested in wholesaling their wireless network and that was Sprint. And now There are multiple MNOs that offer a wholesale solution for MVNOs.

Got it. Okay.

A lot has changed from back then till now.

Yeah. And even Sprint has, as you know as well too, has grown back then to be T Mobile. Sprint together now. That's right too. Okay, so interesting. So tell us about a bit of the internal development that turned into Cox Mobile. What how to go into it from a product development standpoint. I'm guessing obviously some partnerships, but maybe some product pieces.

Yeah. So, and I think I failed to mention, to answer part of your question earlier, and that's why mobile. All I did was answer why we did it last time and why it didn't work out. But at the end of the day, when you look at what's happening in the marketplace here in the us, there is a lot of convergence that's going on. So ultimately we have wireless companies getting into selling home Internet and we have a lot of cable companies getting into selling wireless. And lo and behold, those things will eventually come together into a converged play where consumers will be able to come to a company and get all of their connectivity needs. If we don't have a wireless solution on Cox's, you know, portfolio of capabilities. It's going to be very difficult to compete as we head into the future. We actually saw this play out in Europe, so kind of the impetus of why is this important? Well, we saw how it all played out over the pond in Europe and for the companies that didn't have both the wireless and the wireline capabilities, they really didn't fare too well. So we kind of in regulations over there spurred some of that. But we knew eventually that trend was going to make it here into the United States and here it is, it's happening today. So obviously you look back x number of years and looking and then look forward like we knew this was eventually going to happen. So we knew we had to get back into the wireless game. And so that's. That was the cause of us. The re entry of Cox into the mobile space.

Got it. You got to have the full stack offering just like, you know, in a sense your competitors have. That makes sense, Yep. Okay. And so what was that like from your team, product development wise? How do you turn that on and turn that into a consumer product?

Yeah, so. So we had a clean sheet of paper. That's. It's not like I've mentioned, I've been in the business for 36 years. It's the first time when I came into a role where I had the opportunity to build something literally from scratch. We started with a clean sheet of white paper and we said, what do we want this business to be? And it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool to be able to do that, to build a new line of business, but do it inside of a larger company. You've probably talked to in your podc a lot of people that do startups, but it's kind of like being in a startup, but with a nice warm security blanket kind of wrapped around you because you're not worrying about whether you can make payroll next month or anything like that. You just focus wholeheartedly on the job at hand, which is building this new line of business, this new company. But we develop our vision and our value prop and then start a process that we call Journey mapping. And I don't know if other of your guests have talked about Journey Mapping, but it's essentially Journey mapping is laying out your customer experiences and for every possible scenario that our customers will have to deal with, you've got to create this journey. What do you want the journey to be for your customer? And you create all kinds of journey, hundreds of them. Journeys about how is the customer going to learn about Cox Mobile? How is a customer going to buy a device or a service? How is the customer going to port their phone number from another wireless carrier into our phone? Or even the simple process of just activating their phone. You think about all the different use cases, you know, paying a bill or getting support, there's hundreds of these. So we laid out all of these journeys and we map them out in very detailed processes. And then from there, once these journeys get mapped, the product team converts all of those journeys into business requirements and those business requirements are then claimed. We call it inside of Cox, they score and claim these requirements, which is basically some technology team is saying, I'm going to grab that requirement and I'm going to build it, I'm going to develop it, I own it. And that happens mostly here at Cox through agile development teams and those agile functions. They own the platforms and the enablers and they basically, once they claim it, they can start the development journey of actually writing code and developing that journey. And then from there, you know, once you code something, then you start the testing process. And once a capability is kind of ready and has been lab tested, we go through user acceptance testing to make sure that what we got developed is what we wanted in the first place, what the design intent was. And eventually we then move into trials. And once you have all your capabilities developed, all those hundreds that we mentioned, those at the end of the day, that we turned hundreds of journeys into thousands of business requirements that all had to be developed. And once all that gets done, then you move into the trial phase where you're getting your employees to test out all of the capabilities, they find defects, you go fix those defects and then you move into the launch phase. And that's where Cox Mobile is today, is in that launch phase of that development process, which is obviously very exciting, like it's years of work to basically get to the point where, okay, we're ready to actually start selling this to customers. Beyond the development, like I mentioned, you know, I just went through the development process, but on top of that there's all the go to market activities that had to be done, whether it's, you know, marketing or sales readiness or training of reps, care readiness. I mentioned before, we have like 15 different partners as well that all had to do their part and then we bring it all together and so the partners have to be ready for that launch as well. And there's inventory we have to buy and get into our stores and logistics and there's just so Many different pieces to the puzzle. And you can imagine after all of that to be now getting into market is pretty darn exciting.

Yeah, absolutely. It's pretty cool to see, like you mentioned kind of this startup within the enterprise and I've actually been able to witness it a few times between gaming and Edge within Cox as well. And to know and see where Cox invests because this is an investment and a risk and obviously has to have some proof points and some milestones along the way to say, yes, keep investing in this. So you launch, what does launch look like? What is. And tell us when you actually launched. So we kind of know timeframe now.

Yeah, we basically turned up our first markets at the end of August. That was a trial launch to make sure our customers didn't discover any serious issues. We obviously do a lot of testing to try to prevent that, but you never know, right? Once once you get paying customers onto your production, they could easily discover something that, hey, we didn't think about that or that's a problem that we didn't catch during our testing. And luckily through that process, I don't know if you're probably familiar with SEV0, SEV1, SEV2 types of issues. We did not have a single kind of sev1 issue once we got into the trial launch and that's phenomenal. After I described all of that work with the journeys and the business requirements and the likely millions of lines of code that were developed to launch and not have any Sev1 tickets, we're pretty proud of that. So the launch has gone, I think, quite well from a let's test the capabilities in the process and we haven't done a significant amount of marketing thus far, just enough to get customers in the door so we can, you know, test everything out. And then so now we're getting ready to move into the next phase of markets and what that looks like is simply moving to additional markets to get them turned up and that actually we're four days away from turning up our next set of markets. So obviously very busy here at Cox Mobile getting ready for that. And then we go very quickly from there after the kind of seven additional markets that we turn up on November 14, then over the next three weeks we will get all of the rest of our markets turned up and ready to basically start selling Cox Mobile.

Wow. Really exciting times. It's you going live. I get this image in my head of like Marty Cooper, the first phone developer, making that first call, being like, can you hear me? Did was that you? Did you make the first call.

We have actually some video of when that happened and it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool to do that. I got to do that back in the early days too, and when we launched our very first Sprint PCs network, cell sites and being able to make that first phone call as well. So I've gotten to do that twice in my career and it's the excitement doesn't wear off. It was good. It was fantastic both times.

That's fantastic. That's awesome. Well, the difference about Cox Mobile and obviously a lot of other Cox's services is that Cox is not in every market for broadband. Right. But for mobile you have to be right for people to be able to use this, they got to be able to use it nationwide, which brings in your partners. So kind of take us through, you know, while you're saying new market launches right now, but what is kind of the state of the user? Can they use it everywhere?

Yeah, I mean, when you sign a wholesale agreement with a national wireless carrier, we definitely get the opportunity to have our customers enjoy nationwide coverage in everything. Every part of the network our partner has available for their customers. Our customers get to enjoy that as well.

That's great. So you're in launch mode, obviously. So very focused on consumer side and making sure that not just your reaching customers, but great customer success. But you're a product guy at heart. What's happening behind the scenes? What are you, where are you iterating product and the development team right now?

Yeah, we've got multiple different inputs that inform what the next set of product capabilities are going to be. Some of them are things that we call backlog items, things that we would have loved to have had on launch day, but given time, resources, budgets, those things were pushed off into the backlog. So we a fairly long list of those types of things that we want to enable. Some of that is associated with stuff like making things more omnichannel so that if a customer walks into a retail store versus calls into our call center or does something online through our digital channel, that all of the same capabilities and functions exist, regardless of which channel they go to. But there's also new product capabilities that we're working on rolling out. We mentioned earlier about convergence and so we've got development going on to be able to converge different capabilities between our cable, core Internet access types of products with mobile. So there's all kinds of stuff like that. And of course, as we get feedback from customers through these trials, that also provides an input that we actually iterate Quite quickly. So if we discover an issue that goes immediately into our development pipeline to resolve within a very short period of time. So there's a whole team of people that works on nothing but that kind of stuff, and then there's other people that work on, you know, bringing the new capabilities to life.

Wow. Obviously, a lot going on behind the scenes to keep people connected, which obviously Cox has been doing for a long time and now just doing it in another way now with your phone as well, too, which is pretty great to see. And other people connect is over food. So you're working hard all day, punching out code, and then you gotta take a break and, you know, go grab some tacos with your friends. Where does that happen for you? Where you go to try your favorite taco spot?

Well, first, I'm going to be honest with you, Neil. I'm actually more of a burrito guy. One of my favorite burrito places here in Milton, Georgia is called fajitas. I usually get them kind of smothered in some kind of a sauce and some cheese and jalapenos and a side of sour cream. However, as I mentioned earlier, I do spend a fair bit of time on the Florida Gulf coast. And while there, I find myself craving fish tacos. And I'm usually a meat and potatoes guy, but while on the coast, I just, you know, kind of seem to crave seafood. So maybe you get the same feeling in San Diego being near the coast, but in particular, I crave blackened grouper tacos. Of course, they have to be soft tacos. The hard shell tacos always crack and fall apart when you bite into them. And then all the ingredients are all over your hands and. And so try to avoid that. Just go to the soft taco. But there is a place I go to that I think the best fish tacos are specifically black and grouper tacos on the Florida Gulf Coast. And that's the Water Sound Beach Club. So put that into your map. If you're ever down that way, let me know. We'll get you black and grouper soft taco.

Let's do it. We do not get grouper down here in San Diego, not nearly the way that you guys do. So we'll exchange our favorites for when you're back out here for some fish tacos Baja style. And grouper is. I'm a burrito guy as well, but burrito and tech does not flow nearly as well as tacos and tech. So a little secret there into the name Tony, you're a taco aficionado. As I or a Mexican food aficionado as it seems. You know your burrito, you know your taco, and you know your telecom. And so we've been thrilled to spend time chatting with you about it. Really excited for this launch and excited to see the product iteration that continues to come out of Cox. So thank you.

Great. Thank you, Neil and I really enjoyed chatting with you.

Likewise. Thanks a lot, Tony.

All right, take care.

Thanks for tuning in to Tacos and Tech Podcast. You can find all of our episodes on fresh foodtech.com as well as on cheese twitter at tacos and Tech Pod. Also follow Fresh Brew Tech on all of our social platforms and make sure to share and give a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Play. Thanks again.

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