Derrick Brent, Deputy Director of the USPTO and Deputy Undersecretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property

Competitively in order for us to as a country, to maintain our position as a world leader in innovation. It's all hands on deck. Because when you look at it, I think it's more than 50% of our patent applications are coming from outside of the US now. What does that mean? That means that other folks are working hard on innovation just as hard as we are. So we need everybody, all the brightest minds. We can't lead any innovators or any innovation on the shelf at this point in time.

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You want tech in tacos, tacos in tech. You know we got tacos in techies on smash border green guacamole keep accountants counting beans Contador Quentan Frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping fire tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times a craft beer and coffee my coding yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing Coronado eatin tacos el gordo the tacos stand in puesto lucha libre and sombrero gotta shout out to coast Angels by the ocean watch the sunset La Jolla shores Entrepreneurs trying to get funded When San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer Oceanside the Tijuana Estee be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthous right on the beach Tech leaders who believe stars are within reach we interview and founders who be shooting for the Moon SD TechOS with your host, Neil Bloom.

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Welcome to the Tacos and Tech Podcast where we interview tech leaders in the San Diego tech ecosystem. We also read the latest tech news on this Week in San Diego Tech News. Follow us and subscribe online to your favorite podcast network started. Hello and welcome back to the Tacos and Tech Podcast. I'm your host, Neal Bloom, and I'm thrilled to be joined with Derek Brent, the Deputy Undersecretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property and the Deputy Director of the U.S. patent and Trade Office. Hey, Derek, good to see you.

Neil, it's great to see you and thank you very much for this opportunity to have a conversation. I'm really looking forward to it and I'm going to start off by just being a fan for a second. As I've told you, I am a big fan of the work that you're doing here and of the San Diego ecosystem, the growth in it. Having lived in Southern California myself for a while, the growth in the Startup community here and in the entrepreneur community is amazing. And in our conversation you'll hear me, I encourage people, keep growing, keep doing it and also keep engaging because I think this is an exciting time with opportunities with the federal government to grow.

Thank you, we appreciate that. Especially just the fact that you're here in San Diego for conferences and you made time to talk about ecosystem in that regard. We really appreciate the time, that's for sure. I wanna get to know a little bit about the work you're doing, especially tools for ecosystem builders like myself and for our listeners, largely entrepreneurs and investors of entrepreneurs. Do you wanna give us a quick high level overview of what the U.S. patent and Trade Office is and then we'll dive deeper after that?

Sure. It starts off with a Patent and Trademark Office. It covers basically intellectual property for the, for the United States government. We're the chief advisors to the President through the Secretary of Commerce on intellectual property issues. That would be patents, trademarks and copyrights. Now the copyrights themselves are actually registered by the, by the Library of Congress, the Office of the Copyright Registrar. Patents are granted and trademarks are registered through the Patent and Trademark Office. So part of our mission is making sure, taking in applications, processing them and granting patents and registering trademarks. So that's part of the work. But we also do a lot of policy work. We also, you know, provide policy advice and counsel all across the government and also we provide technical advice to Congress. We have a great engagement and relationship with the Hill in terms of providing advice. So that's, that's a bit of like sort of the technical aspects of what the Patent Trademark Office does. But one of the areas that it's the number one pillar or plank of our strategic plan is growing an inclusive innovation ecosystem. Driving inclusive innovation with robust and reliable rights. Now that's, that's kind of a, actually it's a shortish sentence given, given the other things we do. But the point there is that we have to work on robust and reliable rights. But growing a system that is inclusive, that is bringing more and all in, it's important. And as we, as we may get to this is a time that I think we need all hands on deck. Part of the discussion that I had yesterday was a discussion of the fact that competitively in the, in order, in order for us to as a country to maintain our position as a world leader in innovation. It's all hands on deck because when you look at it, I think it's more than 50% of our patent applications are coming from outside of the U.S. now, what does that mean? That means that other folks are working hard on innovation just as hard as we are. So we need everybody, all the brightest minds. We can't leave any innovators or any innovation on the shelf at this point in time. So the growth of startups, the growth of entrepreneurs is a fundamental part of our mission. Bring them into the system, make sure that they know about intellectual property, any other aspects, make sure funding and different things. We want to make sure we're providing a journey from cradle to walking. And so Right now, the USPTO's mission is to make sure that we're getting people the resources that they need in intellectual property. But also, you know, we're also sort of a gateway because we have a lot of, we have a lot of interaction with folks. We want to make sure that we introduce folks to the, to other people in the federal government that can provide help and support. So it's a, it's a broad mission, as you can tell. But what we're trying to do is really grow an inclusive and a robust system, because if we do that, then, you know, we're going to maintain leadership. You know, we've taken the baton from those who went before us and now we're just taking it and we're just building the system. So the next group is also ready for success.

That's great. I mean, I think San Diegans and Southern Californians in the innovation space, it's very. There's certain pockets that, that speaks a lot to, especially in anything in chip and telecom design and biomed and biomedical, which has already had a relationship with our southern border in Mexico. A lot of manufacturing, manufacturing. And now also who are moving from overseas to Mexico. We've seen a lot of that in San Diego. So that's all interesting because it helps our workforce. Like we literally can have lunch either side of the border with, you know, software engineers or manufacturing engineers designing medical devices here. So we'll unpack that a little bit of just like, what are some of those resources to help a community like ours?

Sure.

That is kind of rebuilding its infrastructure around that. But I know you've worked in some of these fields as well, from, from the auto industry and biomedical industry. Take us through, you know, a young Derek and how you got started down this path.

Oh, man. It's best described by the Beatles song, the Long and Winding Road. A career serendipity, but definitely on the positive side. So I started off undergrad at Ohio State Mechanical Engineering, but I was also a double major. I started off as a double major with music in jazz composition. My principal instrument was trumpet. Oh, wow. A funny little side story I'd like to tell about the music is that my freshman year went. Wynton Marsalis played a concert at Ohio State, and the trumpet players got a chance to go back and meet him. And one of the mellowest, nicest guys I've ever met. And. And I remember he's like. He's like, you look kind of shy over there. And he said, you know, he's like. He's like. And he was like. He was like, what do you do? You know, what do you. What's your thing, man? I said, wynton, I just love that you play classical and jazz, because that's what I do. I play classical music and I also play jazz. He says, keep doing it, man. He goes. He goes. He goes, it's the new wave for us. But anyway, I love. Still play. I don't play. I have nerve damage on the right side of my lip. And so I can't maintain my embouchure for a trumpet. Plus, I'm way out of practice, but I am.

I have a background in playing violin and baritone saxophone in my high school jazz band and marching band. So I speak in my language here.

On music, I picked up saxophone, so I learned to play all the instruments in the band with the exception of bassoon and oboe. And. And I just. I taught myself. I learned a few through lessons at summer lessons, and then I taught myself the other ones, French horn and different things. Euphonium. So I have to. I have to tell you, the bari sax was fun. I. Once I learned to play the saxophone, the bari sax was just a ton of fun. It has a lot of register. The other interesting thing. So I have a copyright that I got when I was 16 or 17 on a song, a song that I wrote. Music recording. And I think it's a performance copyright, but it's the. I think I also have the score registered, but it's a song I wrote for symphony orchestra. Now, here's the thing. I don't play strings. So when I wrote that song and I wrote the string part, I had to write it for my head. Of what I thought violins I had played in orchestras, but I had never actually written for strings. The first practice, Neil, I know you can appreciate this. First practice, I'm sitting there and I'm getting on and I'm playing, and as I'm playing the piano, I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden I'm like, I Hope this is right, because I don't play these instruments, and I don't know if I have them in the right register. And it was.

How did you know at 16 to actually file the appropriate paperwork?

That was like the beginning of my exposure to intellectual property was I knew that I needed a copyright to protect my music. I think I learned it. I learned it just through school learning. There's patents, trademarks, and copyrights, and here are these different things. So I decided to go ahead and protect the music. I had no idea what I might use it for. And as I went forward in my. I, you know, at the time, I thought I might have a music career, and I wanted to have my early stuff protect. Protected. I wrote. I wrote a lot of music when I was in high school. So.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I feel like musicians were always just, like, coming up with stuff, but to know at 16 to protect it.

Oh, it was.

I. Now I understand your path.

It's a funny. It's funny because the path, you know, it fears from there. And I'll make sure I'll get us back on to the path. But, you know, one of the things I always compliment the copyright officer when we're talking with them is, like, the way that I did. I knew I had to get a copyright. I wasn't sure what the process was, so I picked up the phone. This is in the 80s. I picked up the phone and I called the Library of Congress. I said, I need to get a copyright on my music. I understand that the copyright is automatic upon creation, but I really want. I want to get it registered. And they're like, okay. And a woman sat on the phone with me for probably at least 30 minutes and probably longer as I filled out the form and pen, which is the copy that's on file there, and she walked me through filling out the form and said, okay, now just mail it in to us. And with $10. And so what a process. You know, what a process and what great customer service on her part. But it was a. It was a great. It was a really good process.

Wow.

Did that.

I mean, where. Where did you get into the legal side of innovation?

Yeah.

Where you went.

So I. I ended up dropping music because I went the more practical route of continuing with engineering. Right. And then I went to. From. From engineering as I worked at General Motors. It was a great experience. I mean, I got to manage five subcontracted plants for General Motors, these outside suppliers. But in the back of my head, I knew I either wanted to get. I. I liked Business, I like business and strategy, but I also had always liked history, government and the law and a bit of the law, just learning how our systems work. And so I finally decided when I was at General Motors. I knew that there was, there was a little bit more for me to do in terms of education and I wanted to go back to law school. So I went back to law school. When I got to law school, the interesting thing was I was looking at other areas to practice, but because my engineering background and IP was starting to become very hot at the time, in the mid-90s, they're like, you're perfect for, you're perfect for this. Like, you should really check it out. I had not really thought about IP other than the copyright stuff. I've not really thought about it as a practice area. And sure enough, I was able to work at an IP boutique for two summers in law school. Learned a ton. It was a fascinating area. And the great thing for me was that it was a blend of the creative getting to work with people who are creating things and then turning that into law and analysis and structure.

Got it. Okay, so did you, within the innovation space, is that where you kind of knew you were going to carve yourself back out into law and go work in biomedical or back in the auto or like, how did you.

So I. So, interestingly enough, the. When I started to work, when I start, when I start law school, you could look at my very first, at my, my personal statement, I, I believe I said something along the lines of, you will never catch me doing litigation because litigation is not my personality. I'm more of a consensus builder. Funny enough, I ended up doing litigation. I happened to be good at both oral arguments and also at writing and writing more, more so than oral arguments. So I actually did patent litigation. And so it was, it was, I did, I did some trademarks, some trademark work searches and preparing applications during my time. So that was my pat. That was my initial path, patent litigation. That's how I got into IP and then doing a little bit on patent on trademarks and copyrights. But then I made a switch in my career, probably about 4,4ish years or so. I went to, I went and became a federal clerk for a judge, wonderful judge in Southern District of Ohio in Columbus. And during that time, I also had started to think about the fact that I wanted to work for the government. I wanted to, and more so than just work for the government, I wanted to follow in the footsteps of my hero, Thurgood Marshall, and work in civil rights and so it was quite a pivot. You know, here's this ip, federal litigator. And then all of a sudden, I'm going to go over and try and work in the civil rights community. But I was able to do it through employment law. And eventually I did. February of 2021, I joined the Justice Department as a senior trial attorney in the Civil Rights Division. And it was a wonderful moment. And it was a great six years that I had actually, you know, working on behalf. We had a. We had a trial win while we were there on behalf of some police officers. We had, you know, the work that we did, we got a lot of really good results in cases. So it was really a great. But it was a big pivot. So I didn't know if I was ever going to get back to ip. I still. I still loved it, but I just didn't know if I was going to get back. I was like, okay, everybody's now got me as a federal litigator, employment law and civil rights guy. And I ended up going up to the Senate, becoming chief counsel for Senator Boxer, which was a. Which was a great job. Well, when I got to the Senate, it was. It was great. It was great. I could work on judicial nominations. I got to work on military commissions. I got to work on a lot of different legal issues that run through the Judiciary Committee. She wasn't on the committee, but because she was. It's California. We have a big, you know, California has a big law base, and so we have to make sure that we're. We're abreast of that. But one of the interesting things that happened while I was in the Senate was there was this bill called Patent Reform. That was its initial. Initial name, and became known later on as the America Invents Act. And I was one of the few people who had actually done patent litigation. So I, you know, who practiced in the area. So we in the Senate, I became somebody that, you know, had a lot. I had a lot of conversations with Judiciary staff members and worked a lot on the bill, gave suggestions, suggestions, also worked with stakeholders in California, having them understand the bill and taking their issues. So all of a sudden, IP came back full force into my life, along with still getting to do my civil rights and other things. And so that was an interesting. It was. The thing I will say about the Senate and the career path is that all of a sudden all those things that I worked on, patent litigation, federal litigation, as an employment lawyer, civil rights, all those things sort of started to play together. I got to Use all those skills when I got back to the Senate and I'm very happy that in the Senate I got back to IP because it's been a part of my career ever since and that's been a, that's been a blessing. So went to work in house for a big medical technology company in Irvine, California. Did that for four and a half years. And then I consulted with a, a startup company and, and, and also taught American government in Savannah, Georgia. And then all of a sudden I got the confidence call to serve again at the uspto and, and here I am with all of this wide range of skills that somehow I get to use as in this job. Because there's business aspects, there's, you know, I use stuff that I learned from consulting. In my consulting gig. I learned marketing because as you know, with a startup there's no single position. Right. So all hands on deck, everyone wears every hat. Exactly. They needed somebody like we don't have anybody who does marketing or marketing analysis. So I taught myself that and provided. But in this job I use the business stuff. You know, knowledge of different industries and sectors. You know, stuff that I learned in the Senate, working with a bunch of different stakeholders, knowing the stakeholders across the country and in places like California. What's the lay of the lands?

The American Inventors act they got to work on completely changed up the patent process.

It did.

Can you talk a little about that? And that way we can give a little bit, shed light on, you know, first time inventors, what they should be thinking about from a patent. Yeah, the big piece.

Yeah, the biggest, you know, the biggest change I think for entrepreneurs and, and for invent for inventors was the, was the first to file change because no longer was it going to be the looking at your, you know, looking at your lab book and trying to figure out what was your date of conception, what was your, you know, you know, what was your initial invention date? When did that. And it changed it to when, when did you file. But coming along with that was this, that was the idea of a provisional patent, something that you could file. That was just an initial discussion or disclosure of what the inventive idea was going to be. And that would give you a year and it would be, it's a relatively cheap process. It's one of the things that, for entrepreneurs and inventors, you know, we tout that. Please, please, you know, take advantage of that provisional, get something on file and then spend that next year figuring out like how, how you're going to, you know, how you're going to fund it and what the exact process is going to be to refine it. Yeah, so it's, that was one of the big sea changes. I think there were some, there were some litigation changes that came about. And I think those are, you know, those by and large, you know, some things have worked, some things have needed to be tweaked. I think the, you know, in terms of protecting, you know, protecting patents and make, you know, robust rights. But, you know, the biggest sea change I think was the first to file. But it gives. But along with it came this thing called the provisional that I think is one of the most important tools for entrepreneurs.

I'm an advisor at San Jose State's entrepreneurship incubator. And so we have office hours with people like me, generalists, and then we have this group of domain experts, people who are kind of either on the legal side giving kind of pro bono time advice. And this is one of the first pieces that we try to uncover cover. Right. Is there an IP play here as quickly as possible on your idea?

Right.

Let's get you talking to the domain experts on the legal side and then we'll work on validation and everything else. But that part has completely changed the way we, we help entrepreneurs through their ideation validation process.

And it's so important that that is such an early discussion to have. Right. And it's a great early discussion to have. And it also folds into, and I'm sure, I'm sure you do this, love to hear, hear a little bit about it. But as a, you know, when you're giving the entrepreneur, entrepreneur counseling, that initial is having them figure out what their market fit is. Because you know, to be fair, when you're trying to figure out whether it's the patent or even the trademark that you're going to go into the market with, you got to know, you got to know your market. And knowing and doing that early research of what the market is, what are you, where are you headed? Is so important. And it doesn't mean that you're tailoring an invention, but, but, but it does mean that if you have an inventive idea, you want to know that there's a product market fit. I mean, that's, that, that's, that's just good business today. And now nowadays as an inventor, you have to be a business person. And I, I, when I say entrepreneurs, I kind of wrap inventors into that because if you're an inventor, it's great. Have to have some sense of the business around it too, these days.

Well, the first to file piece at least, like, draws a line on the sand.

Yes.

Especially in today's world of generative AI, where you could be asking it anything about does something exist or not? You know, first to file now. So. And we're using generative AI, we're teaching our students how to use that to help as a co pilot in your validation process. Where are the first places we should go to talk to our customer that maybe are feeling these problems? Doesn't mean that you had the idea. Then it's the file piece. And so that part's been really interesting to uncover the path with lawyers who really can do the search super well. So it's good that we're educating that the process is being educated through both sides, education, legal and inventors.

Yeah, it's one of the ways. And we have enhanced our outreach to entrepreneurs over the course of the time with our director, Kathy Vidal, who is tireless and, and just a. She is. She's really, really inclusive. Innovation has been sort of her. Her mainstay. How do we bring more into the system? And, and by more, it's every. It's everyone. When she says inclusion, she means invite more to the table. She's, you know, she's a bit, you know, you know, she reminds me of my grandmother. Story I often tell is my grandmother used to, you know, take in strays until people would come and claim them. But my grandmother, every day during dinner would leave the, the back door open, the garage door open, and if somebody walked by and they smelled it and they were like, hey, Ms. Virginia, it smells good. You know, she's like, come on in, you know, we'll put down a plate for you. And she would. I always wondered why we have so many plates. There's only grandma, you, me, you know, and my mom here. But grandma was inviting people in and, and that's what our, that's what we're trying to do with the system. We are really. We were trying to bring everybody in. So having conversations with entrepreneurs and we've enhanced our outreach there, there incubators, accelerators, because those are the, because those are folks who are at risk of sort of like, you know, having, having consulted with a startup. I can tell you all, every day you wake up and you know this, you're like, okay, how do I just get this to market? How do I get this? And along the way, you don't want to drop off something that is going to be. It's like, oops, you know, down the line, oops, let me go back and grab you Know ip. Well, you know, you want to make sure you have those things sort of set early. It's like buying an office chair. It's like buying a, you know, a computer for your business. It's an asset that you need.

I mean entrepreneur inventors are seemingly everywhere. Yes, but don't all have equal access to that information. How do you, what's the weight on you to. Not even weight, but just like the outreach plan from a federal government office. Like how do you actually make sure that everyone is getting equal access to the information to get a chance to invent?

So that's a great question. There is, it is one of the things that we've done. So I'm going to start with our regional offices which are fantastic. You know, for the California region, the regional office is up in San Jose and then we have regional offices in Dallas. At Detroit we have a regional office that is in, at our headquarters and it covers the eastern seaboard, although we just created. We also have a regional office in Denver. These regional offices go out in their regions and do a ton of outreach. Where we shifted I think in the last year plus is really going to how can we make the most impact? And a lot of that impact can be driven by hitting underrepresented and under resourced areas, lifting those areas up so that they get a real good chance to become, they get a real good chance to really join the economy. Innovation ecosystem. Innovation ecosystem is flying, right. And especially now when you go with AI, it's moving even faster. Right? And so we don't want people to get left behind. We want to make sure they're, they're join, they're, they're joining. So we have enhanced, as I mentioned, we've enhanced our outreach to incubators, accelerators, entrepreneurs. We go to universities and we talk to, not just, we don't just talk to the students, we talk to faculty and we try to talk to them both. We're trying to enhance the amount of the work and the capabilities and capacity for tech transfer. And that's one of the reasons we're here at Autumn, because they're a great partner of ours in working in this area. So there's, there's that you have to be strategic and you have to be intentional. I mean there's no way around it, right? So you have to find a way that you can, that you can go, but you have to be intentional and you have to be strategic. So one of the ways when we have our conversation, conversations with the regional offices, we all, you know, we sort of think of it in three ways. Let's get geographic diversity, okay? Let's make sure we're hitting all of the areas as much as we can reasonably within a region. Yes, there are population centers. Yes, there are areas that are IP centers and hubs. We are going to hit those areas. But let's make sure that we're finding a way to hit, to hit geographically diverse areas. I'll give, I'll give a shout out to one of our colleagues in the San Jose office. He did. He. They made a pivot last year and they pivoted. And so for California, they pivoted to hitting underserved areas just in California. And it was like a sea change. And all of a sudden you're hitting Fresno, Modesto, you're hitting all these, these areas that have been underserved and you're lifting them up economically. So that's, that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Congress gave us an additional tool in the Unleashing American Events Act. We have a new regional office that's coming up down in Atlanta. We're going to be putting a new regional office in Atlanta. But more than that, the unleashing innovation, Unleashing UIAI is the name of the act. It gave us what are called community outreach offices. And with the community outreach offices, these are places that we're going to be able to put across the country that will help us to build underserved, underserved, under resourced areas. So we'll be able to sort of apply IP resources to lift them up and then they will become part of the regular rotation of the regional offices. And so that's it. That's another way. Finally we have this, we have a great group. And one of the things that we, that Kathy has done a great job of improving is our, is our PTRC's patent and trademark Resource Centers. And they're at a number of, I think we're up to 90 something now, but they're at universities. There are university libraries across the country. The librarians are versed in intellectual property. So you can walk right in there and get information on how to do a trademark search, how to do a patent search, how to do, you know, what, what are, what, what is the, you know, what are these intellectual property rights? What do I know? So it's a great first stop for an entrepreneur. And it's a free resource that we put out there. And again, it's at 90 places. It's probably going to continue to grow. We're Getting, I mean we are really getting new signups almost, you know, almost weekly these days.

That's great to know. You mentioned the diversity aspect. Like the GEO piece is interesting. In a county like San Diego, which is 3 million, like one of the larger counties, we find, yes, GEO matters in terms of access, but also industry, certain industries. So in our community, agriculture is actually like we have the most farms in the state of California in San Diego.

Wow.

They're all small. So 7,000 farms in San Diego, agriculture related, who may not have access to innovation or the information ecosystem that would give them places to keep up with how to make my farm, you know, profitable and not just turn it into a real estate development project, which is the worry. Right. In a community where we want to have diverse economic and industry. And so something interesting we've seen here is like putting a group of growers and farmers and food producers and innovators and technologists and scientists in a room. You get magic and you get a sharing of information, of ideas. That can happen anywhere. But it's putting diversity in a room together and then overlaying some education around this. What are you seeing? Areas of opportunity for you guys to the USPTO to be a part of.

That's great. So there's two parts that I want to, that I want to riff off of that and one is you're absolutely right about putting people in the room together. So there's a couple ways that we're doing, we're doing that. So let's, let's take your farm. We might go out and do a like, not a one on one, but with a small group of folks. We may do an IP basics just so they understand what intellectual property is. But we might also co host an event with say one of our fellow federal government partners. Could be the usda, it could be the Minority Business Development Agency, it could be sba. Sba, we do it. We, I think last year we, we co hosted about 60 something events across the country. And so SBA has been a great partner of ours. But when you do that and you bring these coordinated resources discussing IP and funding or IP and then you get them in a room. Now the interesting thing that you raise is also the idea of introducing them to technologists. The folks in agriculture now have, they're at an interesting point because, because they can continue down the agriculture path, but they also have a chance to be part of the next wave, which is climate, which is green tech. And agriculture is a great base for a lot of green tech technology. I love that they're learning those things. And we're actually, the USPTO has partnered with NOAA and a couple other places to do green tech, to do initiatives that will push green tech farther. And so, so what we're doing is we're going to find ways to reach the, reach these folks. And again it may be, you could see a uspto, NOAA and USDA collaboration where we're going to present something on. This is a way to switch over from agriculture to green, you know, to green tech, if you so choose. Yeah, but, but having, I think the, the interesting thing, and I think we're doing it, I'm going to go to a higher level on this. The interesting thing is this is a great time for folks like those in agriculture to engage with the, to engage with the federal government because I think what you, there's a lot of across government work and we're giving each other visibility. It's very easy in the federal government to be in a silo. We could just be uspto. This is our world. You know, everybody else go, you know, go away. And it's, it's easy for any agency to do that. But we're doing a lot of cross government work. You know, we have a, you know, we talk about a lot of times at the Department of Commerce, you know, across the different bureaus, Economic Development Agency, Census, but when we talk about one commerce and so if you plug into one piece of commerce, you're going to get access to the, to the rest. And this is, that's why I think this is a great time to engage because if you engage with one part of the government, we can sometimes find other places, other resources that can help you. And we on our end are, are getting better at coordinating our resources so it becomes a force multiplier. So now going back to your, your example here are these agriculturalists and they're there. But if we can give them visibility and knowledge of the, you know, knowledge of how the world, of how the world is working and the potential opportunity to move into this other area, all of a sudden a light bulb goes off in them. And again it goes back to that initial thing. I said we can't leave any innovators or innovation on the shelf right now. So totally all hands on deck.

Yeah, totally agree. We host an ag tech hackathon here. Last year's winner, the 75 year old crusty farmer, avocado farmer, really just wanted to come in, just pitch his idea to investors and leave. We're like, hey, you just signed up for a 50 hour hackathon.

Right.

We want to help. And we got him to stay and in joined his team was a postdoc from the Salk Institute on root biology, like his perfect technologist. And they created their own little bioreactor to take the scraps of his own farm and using the microbiome of his farm itself, create his own pesticide in a sense, a natural organic pesticide where he just reapplies the scraps back onto his field. And you know, he was ready to walk out because he just wants to pitch investors and in walks his perfect co founder. And we love those kinds of stuff stories and then laying on some access on top of that. And so this year we're doing it again. We're adding incubation. So there'll be a follow on after the weekend where you have three months of incubation at a local incubator. And we want to make sure that we have resources there to make sure that you know how to patent your technology as well. So let's work together on that.

Absolutely. And make sure. And please give us a heads up on it. I mean, you're gonna, you have my contact information, but we'll make sure that we, we have that, that we have coverage from our regional office that is, is here to help out with that. That is a, that's a perfect example. And by the way, you know, isn't it part of the entrepreneurial spirit? Like it's kind of the, the story you just told it because he's kind of like, ah, you know, this may not be a fit for me, but you got to have that patience. I mean, that is, the entrepreneurial spirit is. Okay. I got knocked down today. I got to get back up and keep doing it. And for him, he was like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna stay here. But, you know, he stayed there and you know, all of a sudden he found his perfect fit. And you just don't, you know, I have to say to people, allow yourself to be inspired. In order to do that, you have to have a measure of patience. You have to be, you have to be able to sit there and allow that right thing to, that right opportunity to come in.

Totally. You got to show up first.

Yes.

And you got to start.

Yes.

Oftentimes a lot of us have a lot of ideas.

Right.

But we got to take those next steps to start working on them, even if they're, you know, little baby steps of understanding. Is your idea patentable?

Right.

Or who could I work on this with? Who might get me access to industry.

Yeah.

But keep making forward progress because, like, like you said, entrepreneur, this is a long journey. So if you learn patience now, 10 years from now, you'll, it'll be ingrained in.

Absolutely.

Resilience and patience, which we love as aspects of good founders.

It is MLK's line. I hope, I hope I'm not mistaken quoting him, but, you know, faith is taking that first step even when you can't see the staircase. I like that.

Yeah, absolutely. Every day.

Every hour of the day. For sure. For sure.

Two ups, two downs. You know, you've spent some time in Southern California, which, you know, our taco scene is, is pretty good. But, but tacos also have equal access all over the world these days. You. This is the tacos and tech podcast people I know on the East Coast. Do you have a favorite taco spot?

Yes. So I have a couple. There was, when I was in the Senate, there was a place, and I can't remember if it was called Taco national, but I remember we just referred it to as Nacional, and it was close to our Senate building. And we would like, the big day was like, we were, okay, it's tacos. And they made wonderful. These small, small tacos. Authentic. And that, that's the key. I will tell you, California, you ruined me forever because I had so much good, authentic Mexican food out here that it became diff. It's difficult for me now because now I'm like, I'm very, I don't want to say snobby, but let's just say I have a discerning palette as to what's authentic. Nasty. Now, had really good, you know, whether it was a carnitas or the fish tacos, which I really liked, they were really good. I believe they've closed since. And when I got to Savannah, surprisingly enough, there was a place called Flacos Tacos. And they were, when I first got there, they were good. I think they've, you know, since had some, some, some issues. But when I first got there, they were good and they were authentic. And again, just the. I, I, I happen to be a, as you can tell, I'm a Gemini, so I carry multiple thoughts in my head, so I can't just get one. So I'm getting, you know, I'm getting a, a beef or steak, but I'm also getting carnitas. I'm also going to get the, the, the fish taco, get a little bit of everything. So flacos and nas are my places. I had so many good places when I, I lived out here that I couldn't name them. But I will tell you, I miss, I, I miss it, it is just, it's a different flavor and when I get out here, I try to make sure a little bit packed on this trip but I, I, I didn't get a chance.

Ah, we'll have you again next time. We'll, we'll do a little taco tour for sure. We've got one of the probably largest taco databases now on the Tacos of Tech podcast. We will add your entries in. We map them every place that's been mentioned from the random spots in a parking lot to, you know, places that have lions for days. That is come back for the taco scene and stay for the tech scene as well.

I guarantee you I will. And, and when I come back, I, I would love any entrepreneurs that you want to get together. We love to have a conversation with them. Educates, it educates us. And, and for me, as I, as I mentioned at a event yesterday, as I said, it inspires me. I walk away inspired. Talking to entrepreneurs because of the hard work that they're doing, but figuring out ways that we can help lift and score, support them because it really is the work that they're doing is so valuable. And even when you fail, let's figure out a way to get you back up totally.

And, and entrepreneurs are gonna run through alls and do it no matter what. You might as well also recognize that it does take a village. And if you look for support, people do want to help, right. In every app. That's kind of the beauty of a lot of startup ecosystems is the give before you get mentality.

Right.

Whether it's for business or for just pure like mentorship. Yeah, that's, I think, I think you've seen that many times over and you've been the benefit of that as well too. So thank you. For what, for what you're doing helping our entrepreneurs here on the ground. And thanks for spending some time with us.

I appreciate it. And please, you know, visit the PTO website. You know, we have a wealth of resources on that website. You know, find ways to engage for folks out here. Your, your regional office is in San Jose. Mary Fuller, Steve Kozy will do a wonderful job job up there. We've got a great team up there. So please engage and you know, the, the, the aspects will figure out ways to connect you with others who can.

Help along the way. We'll make sure to get their contact info to invite them to our events. That we're doing down here, like Startup Week and others like that. So thanks again, Derek.

Thank you.

Startups get the party Startups get the party started? Startups get the party? Startups get the party started?

You want tech and tacos, tacos and tech, you know we got tacos and tec on smash for the green guacamole keeper Countins counting beans contador Quentan frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping fire tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times a craft beer and coffee my coding yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing coronado eating tacos el gordo, the tacos standing puesto, lucha libre and sombrero got a shout out to coast angels by the ocean watch the sunset La Jolla shores Entrepreneurs trying to get funded when San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer Oceanside, the Tijuana south be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach. Tech leaders who believe stars are within reach we interview and founders who be shooting for the moon. South Dakota goes with your host, Neil Bloom.

Come on.

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You want tech in tacos, tacos in tech, you know we got it, hey.

Startups get the party Startups get the party started. Startups get the party Startups get the party started. Startups get the party, Startups get the party started?

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