Diving into Bluetech with Yi Chao

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You want tech and tacos, Tacos and tech you know we got tacos and tech is on smash border green guacamole keeper countins counting beans Contador quentan frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping fire tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times a crappy beer and coffee My coding yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing coronado eating tacos El gordo, the taco stand in pesto lucha libre and sombrero got a shout out to cost angels by the ocean Watch the sunset la Hoya shores Entrepreneurs trying to get funded When San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer Oceanside, the Tijuana esti be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach. Tech leaders who who believe stars are within reach. We interview and founders who be shooting for the moon. SDTechOS with your host, Neil Bloom.

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Welcome to the Tacos and Tech podcast where we discover cutting edge San Diego technologies and the builders making it happen. I'm your host, Neil Bloom, San Diego's tech ambassador. And together you're going to put a face to the name of today's tech leaders with our own blend of local lifestyle.

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And welcome back to the Tacos in Tech podcast. I'm your host, Neal Bloom and today I'm joined by the president and CEO of ctrec, Yi Chao. Welcome to the show, Yi.

Thank you for having me on the show.

Yeah, no, it's great. It's exciting to meet a fellow rocket scientist to share some notes of our of our past, but to also hear with what you're building now. Do you want to give us a quick overview of what Ctrack is?

Sure. Seatrack have developed a technology to harvest energy from the ocean Thermal temperature difference. Ocean is warm at the surface, colder depths. So c Trac technology convert this small temperature difference into electricity so this unlimited infinite renewable energy can be used to power underwater robots. Hopefully to power the blue economy in the future.

Oh, I love that. So many good nuggets there. I mean blue tech industry is booming in San Diego. We're quite the town here to build tech around our burgeoning navy.

Right.

And the ocean is just the next great frontier that we still haven't finished exploring. So there's so much to unpack here and we're going to do that. But I want to get to know you a little bit. Where, where'd you grow up and how did you end up in the, the tech field?

I grew up in China, Northeast part of China, about one hour by plane east of Beijing. I attended a college in the southern part of China. It's very small science technology university, just like Caltech have taken 500 students per year. So the province I grew up with only have 10 spots per year. So I was lucky to get admitted to the school through the national examination. The bad news is I have to take a very long train at that time. To train in China is extremely slow. So it took me 36 hours to get to college one way on the coach class wood benches. But I was so young at that time, you know, riding train for with my friends. It doesn't bother me at times. Actually it's something I look forward to by the end of each semester.

I've been on some of those overnight trains, but those were only like 16 to 18 hour, you know from like Shanghai to Xi'.

An.

But man, 36 hour train ride, that's.

That'S an ordeal and a sitting. There's, there are sleeping class. So we were not, we cannot afford as a student to buy slick sleeper class tickets so had to ride on the benches. Wow.

What were you studying then?

At the time I majored in physics with a focus on atmospheric physics.

Okay, and you eventually found your way to the United States. Was it to continue studying or what brought you stateside?

Yeah, back in the 80s there's not many job options once you get to college in physics. So I applied graduate school in the U.S. princeton happened to be the first college to accept me and give me full tuition and plus a stipend. I fly to JFK in 1985, took the bus to Princeton and got my master degree in 87 atmospheric sciences. And then I switched to Oceanography for my PhD. I got my PhD in 1990 and then started my 30 years career as an oceanographer.

Okay, and did you have a specific area of like interest or passion in oceanography?

Yeah, at that time I really like computer science so I use computer models to at that time it's a supercomputer and taking the whole building, probably your cell phone is more powerful than the supercomputer back in the 80s. So I use computer models to simulate the ocean, to predict the ocean, understand ocean's role on weather and climate.

So was JPL doing that kind of work or what brought you there?

Yeah, I continue to work on computer modeling computational oceanography at JPL and eventually I started my satellite oceanography career at JPL. Being a NASA center, I spent about more than 10 years to develop the first satellite to measure salinity from space. So that's my highlight on my JPL career.

Oh, interesting. So JPL design builds and monitors the entire satellite from kind of start to finish.

Correct. We have earth science program launching satellite to study atmosphere, study the solid earth and then study the ocean. Of course, I was involved in the very first prototyping, developing the radar and radiometer instruments, developing a swimming pool to test instruments and sense the water, the salinity of the pool from a few meter above, eventually fly aircraft and off the coast of California and then eventually launching satellite to do this from space hundreds of miles above.

Interesting. So did JPL have like a very entrepreneurial environment? Like could you come up with ideas and they'd say go forth, test and ideate and to see if it could be a usable product of ours to go and build?

Yeah, JPL have a lot of flexibility and doing part of my career there, I get involved in underwater robotics. So I work with my colleagues in outside NASA centers and then make me realize the power is the biggest limitation for underwater robotic. You need energy to power these robots and once they run out of power, you, you need to charge them, replace batteries at sea, which is very difficult, very expensive. It's not scal for the big ocean. So I put together the team to develop the technology to harvest energy in situ locally from the local temperature difference. So the robots can charge themselves as they swim up and down to experience warm and cold temperature. So essentially they self powered by the ocean, so they can last a long time to carry a lot of sensors and then send data back to your command center for analysis. Got it.

Okay, so it sounds like the genesis for CTRACK was in your head for a while. Or did you actually start testing it at JPL and did it like a spin out of the company?

Yeah, the last five, eight years or so in my gfl I started technology development, already developed a prototype, get two patent already granted to Caltech. So give me a really a good head Start before even spin off from Caltech start ctrack.

So is that pretty typical? Like spin outs come from technology development while at jpl?

Yeah. Caltech spin off one company per month roughly. And a lot of ideas. Not every idea is ready for commercial applications. And we have a lot of patents sitting on the shelf. And then advance our understanding and small percentage of those ready to be commercialized. So happen to be. My two patent belong to one of these categories. After some thinking, I'm ready to spin off to CTRACK and then transfer the technology I developed there to commercial applications.

Got it. So I'm curious of the ideation phase. I mean, luckily you had some support. You were working on your idea where a lot of entrepreneurs work on it by night kind of thing.

Right.

And rip off the band aid one day. How did you know you were ready? When was it time to release and get out of. Get out of the wings and start this full time?

So basically we have two patent granted. We have a prototype tested in the lab. We did a ocean test in Hawaii, spent about two years and then refining the technology is really ready to be commercialized. So at that point I have to make the big decision whether I license to another company or I quit my job. Nice paying job by the way. To do myself for sure.

Yeah, quite the career. So take us through what the technology entails. You know, like what are the pieces that make it the special C Trek touch.

Yeah. C Trek currently have a commercial product. It is a portable system so the robot can carry as a backpack. As they swim in the ocean, they are harvesting energy from the temperature difference, essentially recharging the battery on board. We have been developing the right amount of electricity we are generating. Essentially the robots can recharge 100% of what they consume and essentially have a capability energy no longer be the limiting factor for their operation. And then sensor data collection.

So is it like unlimited use that the robot can just stay underwater?

Unlimited energy is not the limitation. So there are other things. Anything moves potentially that will fail. There could be fouling materials and biology grow on the sensors. The data become less accurate and not very useful. We are working on different techniques to extend the lifetime of sensors. By shining UV light, mechanical wipers and laser shining to clean up the surfaces. So we are working on different part of the sensor technology now using the energy we are generating to extend the lifetime of the entire device further.

Ah, got it. Does the robot have to move up or down within the water to find.

Those temperature gradients for our current generation? They have to Move up and down to fill the warm and cold water. We are in the R and D phase. We continue to get government support, industry contract to continue to refine our technology. Our goal is to deploy the first underwater charging station so the robot doesn't have to go up and down. They can sit there, they can swim horizontally, they can carry out the mission. By the end of the mission they come back to charging station. We can sell electricity just like your EV car. Have to find the next charging station as you drive around.

Oh wow, that's super exciting. So now we're going to have like I guess kind of buoys of robotic EV charging out in the ocean.

We hope to be the first company developing a network of discharging stations so we can sell electricity underwater.

Wow, that's super cool. Who are some of the first customers to jump into this?

Our first group of customers from researchers from research, academic institutions, some defense applications. We are expanding our customer base to include more commercial industry users now.

Okay, that's super exciting. Not only did you pull the plug on a career to start your own thing, you also decided to move as well from LA to San Diego. What was the impetus for moving? Not just moving yourself. I think you moved the whole company, correct?

Yes. We have been in Pasadena for a few years. We spin off from there. We are growing out of our current facility looking for the next manufacturing now we have early product, we have purchase orders, we have to do manufacturing as well. So this is a good time to evaluating our Pasadena facility. We have to move east, move south to be cost effective in our stage of the company. And then after looking around and eventually we settled down north county as kind of good compromise to be much closer to the academic excellence in Scripps Institute of Oceanography at ucsd. A lot of expertise in oceanography, a lot of Navy presence in San Diego county as well and then emerging clusters of ocean tech bluetech companies and that's really the pool for the final decision to find a better manufacturing facility, a good supply chain, the entire ecosystem for the bluetech. I see this is LA is great to be e commerce, entertainment and software fintech. San Diego is going to be the center of the blue tech and the blue economy one.

That's great that we've got enough clout that that was on your radar. You know that's always good because I feel like oftentimes we think San Diego is in the shadow of la. So I'm glad we stand out from that point of view. But also you mentioned the north county area which is an under the radar manufacturing hub as well too, which it seems like you found in partners in Vista and other cities along the 78 highway. So welcome. It's great to have you and the team tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of current state today. You're now in manufacturing and looking for new customers. Like what have you found and what's the horizon like Looking ahead now post Covid as well too. I've got to imagine that affects some things for the company as well.

Yeah, Covid certainly delayed our production to some extent. As you know the entire supply chain get interrupted. Some of the key components get delayed by at least about one to two quarters. So we kind of delay in generating revenue for our purchase orders. I hope to that that will pick up more. Our first generation is to produce those portable robotic systems for our customers, self powered. In the medium term, as I mentioned, we're going to increase our R and D effort to accelerate our development for the underwater charging station. Hopefully in the next year or two we are able to go to the ocean, deploy the first underwater charging station so we can start selling electricity underwater. And in the long run we have ambition to getting to some of the commercial applications like offshore farming, shipping. A number of different industries need ocean data, need power to help them better manage their resources. Wow.

It's a lot on the horizon. It's exciting. You know, LA's got a pretty diverse food scene. You know, it's a little different than maybe what we have in San Diego, but what we do have is our Mexican food and we do have our tacos. Have you found some favorites already locally?

Not yet. I'm relatively new and we officially moved in last week. I have three trucks driving in Vista last week, fully unloaded and we're still in the organization phase. I found a coffee shop nearby so I can drive through in the morning, get my coffee. I'm taking recommendations for the best taco places and looking forward for Covid is over and gonna, you know, getting my tacos nearby.

Okay. So we can make some live recommendations here for tacos near Vista. Three worth checking out. Tacos Don Paco.

Okay.

The original Mr. Taco.

Okay.

And Casa Del Taco.

Okay.

Three good recommendations. And then you know, once post Covid's ready I'm ready to take you out to show you some more locally as well too.

Very great, very good. Take that rain check and looking forward to it.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, I also can't wait to see some of the products in the sea and see the new electric vehicle, gas stations electric vehicle charging stations all over dotting our oceans. Powered by Sea Trek. So Yi thanks so much for coming down here being on the podcast and we're excited for your guys growth.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us on the Tacos and Tech podcast with Neil Bloom. Thanks again to Cox Business for helping make this possible by expanding the reach of the San Diego tech ecosystem. Big shout out to School of Rap for our rad intro music and thanks as well to Nest Podcast Network where we are recording live inside their studio at Nest Co working in Bankers Hill. You can find Neil Bloom on Twitter eelbloom as well as fresh brewed tech and tacos and Tech Pod on Twitter too.

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