How To Win Friends and Influence Robots with Cheryl K. Goodman

Got my mic, I got my snare. Anytime I can evoke Snoop Dogg, you know I know I'm doing something good. Okay. That was. That was Eminem, actually.

Yeah, true.

Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

You want tech and tacos, Tacos and tech. You know we got tacos and tech is on smash for the green guacamole Keep accountants counting be contador Quentan frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping Paella tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times a craft beer and coffee my coating yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing coronado eating tacos El gordo the taco standing puesto lucha libre and sombrero Got a shout out to coast angels by the ocean watch the sunset La Jolla shows entrepreneurs trying to get funded. San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer Oceanside to Tijuana est be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach Tech leaders who believe stars are within reach. We interviewing founders who be shooting for the Moon SD TechOS with your host, Neil Bloom. Come on.

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Welcome to the Tacos and Tech podcast where we interview tech learning leaders in the San Diego tech ecosystem. We also read the latest tech news on this Week in San Diego Tech news. Follow us and subscribe online to your favorite podcast network. And welcome back to the Tacos and Tech podcast. I'm your host, Neil Bloom. I am thrilled to have on longtime friend and CEO of Find Good Tech and the latest author of how to Win Friends and influence robots, Ms. Cheryl Goodman. Hey, Cheryl. Hey, how are you doing?

I'm glad you didn't say my old friend, you know, because we have known each other for a while. Longtime friend. That works.

Yeah, long time we've known each other through the tech ecosystem here. I think all the way back to your Qualcomm days, then Sony days as an executive and a lot through the San Diego Regional edc. We've done a lot of community building work and then more recently in the startup world with Startup San Diego and everything that you're doing on thought leadership around AI. So I love to have been alongside the journey with you running a half marathon together and running buddies. We first did a 5K, then we leveled up to a half. Who knows, maybe we're doing a full soon. Yeah, I love it.

Yes, yes, yes, all good.

Yes. And, and moderator at the Interlock Summit last year where you led a really fun panel as well. Well, I am so excited for your book to be out live in the flesh in person because being close to you, I've seen the process of you writing it and everything and it is so fun. I've already picked it up and I'm already working my way through it, so I'm excited to get to it. But can you give us a little bit of background just to kind of set the stage of why this book, why you to write this book and why now?

Yeah, yeah, great questions and you know, it's exactly where I would start. Why now? Why me? And it really was the missing manual. So, you know, after I started findgood Tech, which is a technology consultant without croppings that show up through pr, corporate social responsibility and marketing, I was really looking at how this industry, especially marketers are really being disrupted. And you know, back in the old days you could be a really good marketer marketer if you had like great ideas and campaigns and everything was very analog. But a good marketer today is metrics and measure and analytics and you're more technical than you have ever were before. So it's a, it was a real wake up call to say, you know, what am I really skilled up on this? And so as I started to really comb through how to get proficient in AI, I really said I'm going to have to basically create the manual for context. At Sony, I was responsible for you know, aibo, which is the artificial intelligence bot, of course, the autonomous driving platform. And then, you know, many years at Qualcomm, machine learning was well underway. So it wasn't that it was a stranger to AI, but what we're a stranger to and the consuming public is a stranger to is In November of 2022, our world turned upside down. All of a sudd have this master intern at our fingertips and you know, the world changed and there was no manual, there was no guidebook. I said I'm going to write it. So it really started out as every time I would find an insight or a term, I would just compile it in a Google Doc. That Google Doc started to grow from 50 to 100 to 150 pages. Then I started to say, well what are the implications? What does this do to journalism? What does this do to not only, you know, PRN marketing, but what does it do to, to workflows? How do you create a startup and not just the startup where you're wrapping, you know, GPT4O around an idea, but you know, where are the innovation layers in the total stack? So more questions than answers. And, and I gotta say, Neil, a lot of these answers can't be found in headlines. They have to be found through human interaction and interviews. So lots of interviews. You, Andy White, every startup that's doing anything, certainly in the San Diego region, but of course more nationally, globally. And so I had to really use my core journalist skills from back in the day to really suss out what's really happening here. And that is really the narrative. What makes this book different in terms of being the missing manual is I talk about things that are a little non standard in what you one would call a vocational book. And I would say this is vocational because I'm doing a transfer of knowledge in a tactical way. I'm giving you theory, giving you history, but I'm also, you know, it's a transfer of knowledge of, you know, strategies. Right. But the one thing that is non typical in a vocational book is what's your mindset? So I have a chapter on that and it. Listen, if you think that the robots are going to kill you and your Roomba is really ready to make the attack while you're sleeping, you got to read this book.

Because why would the robots admit that.

That's right, that's right. But it's the myth, it's the narratives. And as a narrative master, I know I was a journalist, I was a corporate mercenary, right. I was paid to craft that narrative. And so you know, this, my goal was to be to, to have the unvarnished truth as I saw it, based on, you know, 20 plus years from mp3.com to Qualcomm to Sony and a few pit stops with startups in between to say, here's my perspective in. And you know, I don't know that I basically have all the answers, but I will tell you this, it is a compendium, it operates as a reference, it is certainly something that is thoughtful and more so, you know, books not only solve problems, but they create dialogue. So, you know, as a lot of my friends, you included, have purchased this book, my first, you know, request is always tell me what you think, what I miss, what should I do? Because there's got to be part two. There's got to be, you know, a series of these. So. So that's the book in a nutshell.

Got it. Yeah. I love how it lays kind of a baseline to start out with. Right. It really kind of just says let's all get to the same, you know, make sure that we're kind of educated here. I'm curious, did you consider books versus GPT? Like, are books still necessary? Vers asking GPT, and is this really a GPT you could have put out versus a book? Like, how did you come to even the decision that it's got to be a book And I got to talk to humans about this.

It's such a good question because especially someone who's a champion of all things digital and down with the analog and of course, the carbon footprint of anything killing trees. But I have to recognize is that at the end of the day, we spend a lot of time on our devices and sometimes just picking up a book and just the contrast of light on a page is actually kinder to the eyes than a screen. I did a Karolinska study, a research study with The Karolinska Institute, 10 years ago when I was in the display industry with Qualcomm about reflective display. And so there's something about reading off of paper that is valuable and, you know, a transfer of knowledge and eye fatigue and all that stuff. So I did it for that reason. But I also did it too, is because I fundamentally believe that the categories that are being left behind are categories that, you know, are maybe are more comfortable with books than doing everything digitally. And, you know, the knowledge worker is the one where the AI scope is targeted. And so knowledge workers of many years, you know, knowledge workers being defined as someone who's had a pro, an expert in their field, and likely holding a college degree. Well, these are the ones that are being disrupted and they tend to be a little bit older on Spectrum. So that was another consideration to his book. But the final one is I think I love books. You know, in my home, I have a library and I would sooner throw out my, well, my husband's stuff than my books. Like, I would sooner, you know, it's like the last thing. The house is on fire. Get the books. You know, it's something that would, you know, the printed legacy is. Is important to me.

So, yeah, I love it. Well, I totally agree. I've just kind of feel like one. Audiobooks were a great thing for a while, but now that the rise of Almost Siri and everything being audio, including GPT4O almost audio is becoming a commodity where you almost start to glaze over audio now, and you're like, oh, wait, I've just been not listening to what's been going on in my ear for 10 minutes. I. I completely agree. Like, the digital detox is actually going to be everything. It's gonna be like the most important things are gonna be not on device that you actually take seriously. So I think books will stand the test of time in that regard.

Yeah, you, you bring up a really good point on the audibles and the, the voice. I mean, this is how I digest most my books. I, I buy the book in person, I read the first chapter, I read the last chapter, I flip through and I stick it on the shelf, if I'm being honest. Then I download the audible and I list, you know, commuting, going to bed, you know, whatever. Right. And. But, you know, a lot in the first chapter of my book, I talk about the disruption of voice. Like really voice is, you know, especially as we look at devices like the rabbit. Right. And I have a chart in there from the last 50 years of consumer electronics, really the first being the mouse. So from the mouse to the rabbit, we've seen this evolution of, of data that now has us basically doing most of our commands and interacting with devices and in the most efficient way using voice. So it is. You've made a really astute point there. And naturally an audible will be launched for this book, and that is going to be coming in fall.

So we'll see if you do the full reading or you have an AI that duplicates your voice sound for you.

We'll see. Yeah, yeah. Well, Synesthesia's got a really good voice clone that I'm playing with. I think I'm going to do it, but, you know, I might sneak a chapter in OR2 and see who can find. Is it the real me?

Yeah, I've just been playing with Speechify, which will create a replicator as well too. It's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should, I will say about audiobooks, I do love when the author adds a little story or nugget that isn't in the written. Right. So that is. It does make me listen more to books when I'm like, oh, tell that story kind of thing.

Well, especially with this content because I tried to do this book look evergreen. Right. So it would stand the test of time. How do we get here? What are the fundamentals of how a large language model works? You know, it really tried to do that. However, as you go through, as I go through these chapters, yeah, the side commentary is going to be more important because then I'm going to say, hey, yeah. And when this published in, you know, summer of 2024, and now it's fall, here's what's changed with Microsoft. Right. Like or here, especially because Microsoft is now stepping away from OpenAI. And when I first tried to publish this book in September of last year, that's when OpenAI had imploded. And while that's not an evergreen story, it was foundational to the way that we're experiencing these GPTs because they were the front runner. Right. So there's going to be a lot of commentary in there. So I'm actually really excited about recording that.

Yeah, that kind of brings up the point in general, just the speed that we perceive AI is changing. You know, you mentioned the, the, the Genesis moment, November 2022. You know, in that regard, like, I would be curious to look back of what we projected to now versus what's reality. And you now can do that with your book every few months and kind of be like, here's what I'm saying, you should know. Baseline. I wonder if the baseline is going to change, you know, and that hopefully necessitates you updating the book and putting out more volumes and versions. Is that kind of the plan?

Yeah, that's absolutely the plan. And you know, originally I was like, you know, you're going to do a series where it would be, okay, the AI Guide for attorneys and the AI Guide for copywriters and the AI Guide for, you know, insert profession here. And what I'm coming to find is that a lot of this change is ubiquitous. And so it would serve, I think, my readership for me to generally update the series. And so that that's very likely what I'll do because it really is, you know, the written word is being disrupt. Disrupted. If you're using the written word in your profession, you're going to want to read the book. So that's the thinking.

I love it. What else are you hearing from the find good tech side? Like, what do people ask? What's the first question they ask you? I'm guessing that's the most. The frequently asked questions are kind of what you put down in this book. But I don't know, I'm curious if the questions are changing or what do you get asked first from companies?

I'll just say this is. I'm floored and absolutely surprised. As now a corporate trainer and I've done construction firms, clean tech firms, cpg and as I go in and advise, I really am floored about how little knowledge and how much misinformation exists, not only within the executive teams, but really directors and above. And so, you know, my core flagship product is of course called AI fluency and to really draw that baseline, yes, it is based off the book. But what I'm surprised about is how companies are really reticent to create AI policies and to be able to create a pathway. And I think this starts with really good communication because number one, you know, you'll recall like when Facebook first came out, I was actually at Qualcomm at the time and you know, a lot of company policies were don't be on Facebook. Well, we think about that now and it's like that's the stupidest advice you could give to your employees as a leader. It get on Facebook, find that market, build that marketplace. Right. But that's not how we were thinking. I'm seeing that same pattern reemerge where it's no, you can't use these tools. Well that's not going to work because they're going to use the tools anyway. So you may as well create a policy, you may as well educate and you may as well bring someone in to basically say here's what to do, here's what not to do. And then also create a tiger team, you know, in give someone authority to be the expert and run a task force internally to be able to unpack what this looks like. Right. I don't think that this role of chief AI officer is necessarily needed. And I, and that that may be a bit of a polarizing statement. I think it depends on the size of the company. But I do think that companies have to recognize that their employee base is, is changing and that they have to recognize and they have to provide tools. And so because in absence of that, you're working with a lot of misinformation and folks are using these tools at home, using proprietary information to get their job done quicker and faster and they think they're helping the company, but it's actually hurting the company. So my call is get out in front of this, don't be drug behind it. And you know, you'll, you'll be better as a result of it. Companies will be better as a result.

Okay, that's great advice. Let's do a few rapid fire ones. Do you have a favorite LLM that is your go to right now?

I love perplexity, you know, and in the early days it was Claude. So GPT. I, you know, had done a lot of research about what really is behind GPT. OpenAI's ChatGPT and I don't know if you've heard of this term, the Shoga thing. I actually talk about it in my book and it's really, you know, because the whole of the Internet and, you know, there's really a lot of ugliness behind these systems. And so I challenge myself to find things that were maybe a little more intentional about what the way the data was sourced. And you know, as you know, Claude was a constitutional AI. So use Claude for a long time. But today's favorite, and I think it's going to be the favorite for a really long time, is Perplexity. Because it is not just a search engine. It looks and feels like a search engine, it's an answer engine. So you do your query and your query comes back cited with sources that you can review. And I've also found the error ratio to be incredibly low. And of course, it's multimodal. You can have it powered in different LLMs because technically perplexity is not an LLM, but it operates like an LLM and then you can go in and change which LLM you want to power the answer engine. So I think that's a game changer, 100% of it.

Well, I searched Shoga while we were talking in Perplexity to understand that it's a fictional creature from the Chlo Mythos, the, the amorphous shape shifting being. I love it. All right, I'm gonna go find it in your book to understand the context within this greater area as well too. What's a. What is something that in your personal life you immediately go. It's like one of the first things you go and use one of these LLMs for to do personally today.

Yeah, you know, it's really everything. So I've, I've changed my workflow to where I don't. First thing I don't, you know, it used to be open up Google or your browser of choice or your mail client. I don't do that anymore. It's like Perplexity is my homepage and I start there and I really look at my day and I look at, hey, I have a meeting with Neil. And you know, you know, I, I didn't do this. But as an example, in preparation for a meeting would be, oh, what's the best way to deliver a sound bite? Or what's, you know, always use it to prep for meetings right before I go in the meeting. So it's part of my. As I lay out, you know, my paper. Day planner. Yes, I still have one of those. As I lay that out with my schedule, then I go through and prep and say, do I have everything that I need? So I, I'm Ready? So it's, it's my prep tool for, for really everything that's cool to hear.

I made it my while driving conversation partner. So while I'm driving, if I'm curious about something, usually be like, oh, that'd be interesting. I'm like, oh, let's talk to GPT about it. And I have a conversation about anything and everything. Yeah, been really interesting to, to use.

That I let you know. And I remember when we were doing the half marathon and we were talking about that and I had the meta glasses got in December and I love that too. Same functionality. Hey, hey Met. How do I beat Neil at this race? That's a question of my life. Now how do I beat you running? You're a really good runner, but, you know, you're bringing up a really good point. It is conversational and it's fantastic. And with the meta glasses specifically, you know, I'm sure many of you have them out there as then it sends the responses to your phone which later you can store. But of course the, the best feature is, you know, real time recording. Hey, Meta, take a picture, you know, and all those great things. So, you know, it's that merging, you know, it's the ultimate in wearables. You know, being at Qualcomm and in the early days of IOT and we think about all those different wearables that had come out, this one I think is pervasive and is going to stick. It's a fantastic product. I think Meta did a spectacular job and the LLM is, is really good.

So that's awesome. Well, this being the TalkOS and Tech Podcast 1, I have been using a bunch of the LLMs to redesign our whole look, brand and feel for tacos and tech. By the way, I'm putting, I'm pitting them all against each other, Mid Journey, GBT and a few others to determine what is the look that we want, which has been fun. But at the end of the day, AI is not going to change the way we eat. We are going to be eating tacos till the end of time. And we got to know what's your favorite taco spot and what's your favorite order at that place?

Oh my gosh, this is such a tough question. I'll say. Listen, I've been in San Diego since I was mid teens and the first taco that I had was a Rigoberto's and it was a beef taco and it was deep fried. And take me to any Rigobertos for a deep fried Beef taco. I'll go, I'll go to a filibertos too. Or any other iteration. Yes. Yeah. So I'm a cheap date and it's very unhealthy, but I literally am craving that right now.

So. All right, let's go out and run to one and so that we feel a little bit better about ourselves. But I am with you right there. I love it. Where can people find the book? We'll make sure we drop in the show notes as well too. And take us through your, your book signing coming up as well too.

Yes, yes. So I am doing something that I think many of your viewing audience, listening audience would appreciate is, you know, we have to control our own information. So yes, you can get it on Amazon. If you buy it on Amazon, I have idea that you've purchased it and then I can't give you those updates in real time. So I also sell it on my website. I sell it a little bit cheaper and so you'll just see a stripe link. You can buy it there and then I ship it to you. But you can also do it on Amazon. But if you really, really, really, really want to get your mitts on this soon, come to the launch party. I'm super excited about it. It is going to be at Biolabs, which is on Scranton Road. And if you haven't been to Biolabs, it's where that California English is. It's really this beautiful destination. So we're going to do an Ask me anything on ama. We have Accenture confirmed. Misty Kane just confirmed to do the Fireside chat with me to talk about, you know, the author's insight and it's going to be brief. We're not going to, you know, keep you away from interacting and networking, but we are going to bring the top tech talent in town to have those conversations and then we're going to break for some happy hour. I'm also going to provide some non alcohol alcoholic beverages thanks to Ellie, who, you know, is repping the N A beverages. What I'm a huge fan of. So yeah, please do come out. It's the 26th, which is the two Fridays from now and it starts at 3 o' clock and we're gonna go till 6. But our go until happy hour continues. There's cornhole out front, market lights. It's just fun. And what I'm really hoping is that, that companies in the area that have workforce needs, that they come out and let me talk to you, let me sign the book for you and talk about how to get you workforce trained. It's really critical for the next evolution up. So awesome.

I'm excited to be there. I'm a big book gifter by the way. It's like one of my favorite things to do is gift books so I'm excited to pick up a few more copies so I can give this to people. I'll keep the one you signed for me. Don't worry, I won't give that one away. But I think also don't they do like afternoon tea at 4? Afternoon tea as well?

Yeah, a little afternoon team will wrap up our AMA on AI around 4 so we absolutely could do afternoon tea. But yeah, we re biolabs folks will be here too of course. Herahab Felina. You know we're gonna have a really, really good turnout. One thing I wanted to mention to another non standard thing about this book that I think the community will love is in the very back I have these pages called the community pages. And what I did is document this experience from my very first interview which by the way was with Andy White of Cash Adventures to everyone, to every panel, to every conversation. So I try to input include pictures from, you know, of Alex Waters, Armando Santana, Vishal Shah. Like to document that when you want to learn something and there's no missing manual, you have to go to your community. This is why I love what you do, Neil. Huge shout out to you. Huge shout out to Felina to really say that we really learn in community. So the book that's going to be out, ready and sell, sold is going to have an expanded version of the community section. And so we hope to see you out there and I'd love to be able to put my ex on that book for you. Yes.

Love it. Yeah, I love the special thanks here. I love that the book is finally out and that you have had peace with your pace.

Oh yes, peace with my pace. Right. That's a good one. That's a good one.

Well, congrats Cheryl and excited for more people to dive into this great resource. Yeah, thanks for being on the pod.

Yeah. And thanks for again always creating a way for community connect. You my friend, are what makes San Diego special.

Well, thank you. No, it's the people. I appreciate that I assemble the hopefully the great people that we get richness from. But thank you Cheryl for being a part of that too.

Yes.

All right, thanks so much.

Take care. Bye.

Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

You want checking tacos, tacos in tech you know we got tacos in tech is on smash for the green guacamole Keep accountants counting beans Contador Quentan frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping paella tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times A craft beer and coffee My coding yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing Coronado eating tacos El gordo the taco stand in puesto lucha libre and sombrero Gotta shout out to cost angels by the ocean watch the sunset La Jolla shores Entrepreneurs trying to get funded When San Diego Startup week is popping in the summer Oceanside to Tijuana Estee be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach Tech leaders who believe stars are within reach we interview and founders who be shooting for the Moon SD TechOS with your host, Neil Bloom. Come on.

Startups get the party Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

You want tech in tacos, tacos in tech, you know we got it.

Startups get get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

You want tech and tacos, tacos in tech. You know we got it.

Hey.

You know we got it. You know we got it. You know we got it.