Melani Gordon - Co-Founder & CEO of Evergreen (formerly TapHunter)

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Startups get the welcome to the Tacos and Tech Podcast where we discover cutting edge San Diego technologies and the builders making it happen. I'm your host Neil Bloom, San Diego's Tech Ambassador and together you're going to put a face to the name of today's tech leaders with our own blend of local lifestyle.

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Cox Business and welcome back to the Tacos and Tech Podcast. I'm your host Neal Bloom and we are doing another virtual edition of the podcast here with one of my friends from the community for six to seven years, Mel Gordon, Co Founder, CEO of Tap Hunter.

Mel, thanks for being on thank you for having me. We've been talking about this for a while now, so I'm really excited.

I was going to say, why is it taking so long for us to get here? But you know, you were writing your own story that now is the perfect time to tell. Yeah. So I'm excited for us to have this conversation for everyone else to sit in and listen in on too.

Thank you.

So while we go back, you know, mostly around the startup community and ecosystem, being entrepreneurs building startup San Diego, your story goes way further back than that from being an entrepreneur. Do you want to take us like way back? Where did you grow up and how did you end up in San Diego?

Yeah, absolutely. So I actually grew up in the Reno Tahoe area into a big, fun, crazy adventure, action sport family. I was racing motorcycles by the age of seven and was snowboarding from an early age and had dreams of being a pro snowboarder. But a few pretty bad accidents held me back from that. In 99, I actually moved to San Diego. So it's been about 20 years. Yeah, so it's been a long, crazy journey in San Diego, that's for sure.

What brought you to San Diego?

Surfers and sun. So I originally thought I was going to go to ASU on a grant and realized I hated the desert and caravanned out here to San Diego over a July 4th weekend and just saw the lifestyle and was like, I have to be here. So packed up my stuff and moved. Didn't have a job, wasn't accepted into college yet. Gave my parents a, you know, slight pause, but it all ended up working out. So. And that was about 20 years ago now.

Wow. Crazy. So was this like college timeframe or after.

So I finished up at San Diego State University very reluctantly. I wasn't built for college and college wasn't built for me. So I was very lucky to stumble into some entrepreneurial professors at the time, before there were actually any entrepreneur programs in universities. And he let me work on a few of his MBA Internet marketing kind of projects. And so that's really what thrust me into entrepreneurism and was very lucky to also get a job at one of San Diego's fastest growing startups at the time, which is Z57. And I think I was employee 30, maybe female number six at the company. Yeah. So I caught the bug pretty early on.

Wow. So Z57, did it survive through the Internet bubble and everything?

Heck yeah. So the founders bootstrapped that company actually to over 20 million a year in revenue and sold it 10 plus years ago, I think to private equity and had a great exit. And so that's kind of where I learned my startup roadmap per se is bootstrapping and being successful through exit. So I'm very grateful for, for that experience. And I was on the sales side, so I learned pretty early on. And also working that job and trying to finish college at the same time and realized that I rocked at sales and that I loved it. So I kind of took that, I took that superpower with me to try to figure out what I was going to do next.

That's awesome. Can we give Steve Weber a shout out for yes we can. Awesome.

One of my heroes.

Yeah. So he was co founder and CEO of Z57.

Correct. And went on to found handfuls of other businesses. So he exited out of Z57, started some other businesses, then became a local angel investor and most recently had become a partner and investor in Tap Hunter.

Oh, awesome. Okay, can we weave in where you met your husband Flash and how you.

Guys started getting Flash Gordon? Yes, we met at Z57.

Okay.

And he was the developer and I was the sales girl. And when you mash 30 something 20 year olds together. Yeah. So we it. This is probably now our third or fourth time working together. We're in the midst of starting another company. So. And that's where we met. We finished college together, we started company or we worked at the same company together and then went on to start companies together. So Flash and I have been together for 20 years and we just celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary.

Oh, congratulations.

Thanks.

Wow, that's incredible. So you were already working together, then the relationship came. So it was like a no brainer. Just keep working together because you obviously worked really well.

Yeah.

That's awesome. So was there A. So Z57 great experience, cut your teeth in the both Internet and startup space. Where else did like what came next was that when you want to start something.

So we had Flash and I had some side hustles at Z57. So we were getting ready to graduate college at SDSU and since I was good at sales, I was like, oh, I'll bring in some freelance projects and you build the websites and we'll save some money. So we actually built websites for casino rental table company like think blackjack and craps so that we could have a killer graduation party. So we rented a house in Mission beach for our graduation party with all of our friends and family. And then the guy that we built the website for brought all of his tables to to our party. So that's where we really were. Like, this side hustle thing is awesome.

So that turned into a company.

Yeah, turned into our first company, which is a marketing agency called G Wave Consulting. And so we ran that for eight years. I did custom web development and SEO and for big corporate pharma, fashion, a bunch of industries.

So yeah, that's fun.

Yeah.

But some point you wanted to build an app and you wanted to get into the beer industry.

Yeah. So we learned at Z57 the power of subscription based business models, or what they like to call today, a software as a service. And that was something that we wanted to get back to. So running our consultancy was great. It allowed us to work in a variety of industries to figure out if there was something we were passionate about. And Tap Hunter was one of five different things that we built out of the agency. We had built SEO tracking software. I actually had a female action sport network that I was building and then Tap Hunter was one and that was in 2009. So for any of those craft beer fans out there, really the industry was just beginning to explode. And so I like to say a lot of times businesses being at the right place at the right time and that was absolutely the case for us.

That's really cool. So we met and you don't know it because I was a fan of Tap Hunter and you before you knew I existed. I was a home brewer through college and then was working beer festivals in LA as a volunteer. Got paired up with Mike Melo.

Who.

I don't even know what brewery he was at at the time. Maybe Fall Brewing or something else. So this one may have been like 2011 MM Mission Brewing.

He was at Mission Brewing during that time, I think.

Yes, he was. You're exactly right. So I was pouring beers and he was just talking my ear off about the brewery industry and I wanted to open a brewery. And he's like, you gotta meet Tap Hunter, you're an engineer. So I came and volunteered at a San Diego beer fest and talked your ear off. And so I love it. Yeah. What was that like starting, you know, obviously the two best of both worlds. A software startup and in the beer industry.

It was amazing. I mean, those were the early days of the beer industry where anyone who worked in the industry, there was just a special spark and magic about it. And if anyone's ever felt that, you just know when you feel it. And everyone loved their art and the brand stood for something and it, you know, it was not big beer and take down the little guy. And for us, we were that vendor. So we weren't, we weren't the brewer, we weren't the yeast company, we were that middleman. And so there was something special about the energy that we could bring to beer festivals. So in the early days we did everything, you know, duct tape and super glued together that didn't later scale with the company. But I remember our first early beer festivals, the San Diego Beer Festival, which is the longest raining one in San Diego. We walked around telling people about the app with a clipboard and we'd collect email addresses and yeah, it was very guerrilla and I think we went to every single beer festival in Southern California for like four or five years straigh straight.

That's great. Tons of great beer. So at some point you though I know as the product matured like it was not just beer, you know, it was all right.

Yeah. I think the really big turning point for us was when we got into EVO Nexus in 2012. So up until that point we were a B2C company and realized unless we were going to get 10 or 20 million app downloads, it was going to be hard to monetize. So as we were going into Evo Nexus, I'm very grateful for the mentorship and advisory that we got through that program because it was one of the really big turning points of our business to pivot to B2B. So we ultimately ended up building up a platform that we have today that is a restaurant and bar management platform that helps them manage their social media, their menuing and their digital signage. And that's what our business is today.

Got it. Okay, so timeframe 2012, give us your own sense of what was the startup community like in San Diego, especially with Evo Nexus just starting downtown, right?

Yeah, it was again a magic sparks early on. I remember being one of two female founders in Evo Nexus. It was me and Adriana Herrera and it was just, it was a magical time downtown because it was really one of the first times that there was that much density with technology related startups and working late nights and sleeping there and most of us were two and three person founder teams and so being given the opportunity to not be working in coffee shops or from home anymore and being around like minded people. I remember Shy Harnoi was one of my buddies and man, we just pushed each other to the limit to, to work harder and hit numbers and you know I, I slept, I slept many of nights at Evo Nexus downtown.

But you also were building community and you obviously have a passion for community building too. Like what Was that, like, to just say, hey, everyone, like, we're all running through walls together? Was there like this. There's this sense that we're doing something more than just cohabitating.

There was. I remember Austin Nudiker had come back to San Diego and we met, and I was like, I feel like I've known you for 20 years. And he was like, yeah, what's going on here? And so it was probably a week or two of knowing him, and we just realized there was a lot more that we could be doing for the community. He had had experience outside of San Diego, and I had a network of people that left San Diego and went to LA and went to Silicon Valley. And so I. I knew what was possible. So he and I set up one of the first, I think, mentor nights at the time that then Evo Nexus took over as a part of their programming because we didn't have the manpower to do it because he and I were both getting companies off the ground. And, yeah, I remember very late nights with a lot of those people early on, just of how we wanted to make the community, you know, have a place on the map and also be inclusive of everyone else in town and get the word out, you know, that this. That downtown was a great place to come. And it was a hub, essentially. We were trying to really. And it did become. It wasn't a try. I mean, Evo next Evo Nexus and the co working space the Irvine company built around that was one of the best things to happen in San Diego, definitely.

And that. And came out of that was Startup San Diego, which is pretty amazing. To gone.

Gives me the goosebumps.

Right?

Yeah, I love it.

Especially, like, knowing. I think I was at one of your first mentor hour programs when it was at the Vine. I don't know. It wasn't called the Vine. It was just that empty shell of a floor space.

Oh, yeah, the one for. I forget the address there where we didn't have, like, carpet or anything.

Yeah, I think it was One America Plaza, right?

Yes, yes, that's it.

And like, Al Bashar was there and a few other companies. Right.

The guys from Shop. Venturi.

Yep. Bach.

Yep, yep.

Yeah, yeah. That was cool. That was. It was. It was cool. And it very quickly, like, turned into, like, form, like, a formal mentor program that. You're right, Evo kind of took over. I think Austin always ran it for them.

He absolutely did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But eventually, you know, a lot of people came together and turned that into a nonprofit, which is. Which is pretty cool. Like, yeah, could you have pictured that that's where all that was. Going to a Startup Week conference and everything else.

I feel like that was the vision.

Okay.

You know, we just, we knew what other communities were doing. It's like, well, why, why is it not possible here? And absolutely was. And there was a lot of momentum and the right people in the same room and it was just, it was, it was great. Those early, early days of getting that off the ground.

Yeah. And now we've had a few executive directors and more so from there. So it's awesome to have had that legacy kind of stamped on that. Thanks, Mel.

Absolutely. Thank you.

So continuing on post EVO Nexus, you gotta run the company. What was it like growing up a company over the last few years?

I loved it. The fundraising part I'm still a little indifferent on, but we did make that decision. And once you make the decision to fundraise, it never stops. And we were the hockey stick growth and grew to as many as 50 full time employees and had the big office space and symphony towers and I loved every minute of it. I wouldn't change it for the world. Yeah, it was fantastic.

So give us a sense of like where the company went to. I mean, was the beverage, did you, did the beverage industry and specifically craft beer, like did that change a lot of your business or were you open to new kind of new industries?

I think the industries changed dramatically. And during that time. Right. 2015, 2016, 2017, all pre Covid, of course. And the other thing that changed was me, like what I wanted. And so I think burning the midnight oil at 80 hours a week is only sustainable for so long. And so that started probably the itch around 2016, so about five years and I could really start to feel that something didn't feel right inside of me personally. There was nothing wrong with the company. I mean it was all your normal startup, you know, stuff. I mean we were a very inside sales driven company, young demographic, just wonderful culture and employees that I still talk to to this day that, that don't work for us anymore that I'm constantly giving references to. And I spoke to one yesterday on the phone and he's, he's looking for a new career and I just, that's, I just, that's what gets me out of bed in the morning, so. But I think, you know, being, being the captain for that long can, can really, really wear on you. So started to try to think about what else was possible. And that's difficult when you have investors to answer to who are Expecting a return in, you know, five or seven years. So that was a big part of the weight that I was carrying around.

That's a lot of self awareness to even realize that, right? I mean, you're running a million miles an hour and just like just got to work, know, moving things forward. Like, was there something specifically that happened at that time or was it like a collective, like look in the mirror originally?

So it, it was through working with our business executive coach at the time and just doing a lot of work that way. And then also using that same person we called our marriage counselor too, is like, I'm married too, right? Like, what else? What other life is out there? And family. And I lived downtown and was, you know, the, the walking billboard for 92101. And after a while I was just like, I don't want to be in this concrete jungle anymore. I grew up in the mountains. I grew up camping, I grew up in the outdoors. The first time was when we watched our friends finish their first rock and roll half marathon. And if you ever want to get inspired, I get the goosebumps talking about this. If you ever want to be inspired, go to the finish line of a half marathon or a marathon. And something clicked inside of me in Flash and we said, you know, something's got to change. We had put family aside, we'd put friends aside, and we'd put our health aside, physical fitness and mental well being. And so that's when I started training for triathlons and marathons and ultimately my first marathon. And so that was the kind of the starting point of all of this. Like, wait a minute, this isn't, this isn't balanced properly.

Yeah, so yeah, you'd been in startups for like 15 years at that point. Like no work life balance whatsoever.

Yeah, yeah. I was like, well, what else is there? And then right around that time, man, Instagram delivered me Van Life right on a silver platter. I was like, what is this Van Life thing? Tell me more. What do you mean? People are living on the road. Who are these people? So that was in 2016. And I came to flash with the famous PowerPoint. That's like the joke with our friends and family. And I was just like. And so, and to be clear, so people know, we also are happily child free by choice. So we don't have children, we have a dog. And so it's just like, what are we doing? And we ultimately started making goals to be long weekenders and we bought our, our dream RV rig and we said like, let's start trying to figure out a way to not be tied and tethered to the business 24 hours a day. And so that started in 2016.

Ah, okay. Yeah, that's really cool. So Van Life, like living and working from the road or.

Okay, yeah, it was. How can we both get back out into the outdoors and sports and start exploring? And so over the summer of 2017 and 2018, we started then doing like three or four months at a time. And so it was like, okay, we can make this work. And that's when we really started thinking about how could we transition the company to be remote. Keeping in mind we were still, you know, had five and seven year office leases. So that was starting to get very interesting, to say the least.

So employees would still stay in the office or you were talking about everyone going remote at some point.

Everyone going remote. But it was hard. We were starting to navigate what that could look like. And so.

Yeah, okay, got it.

Yeah.

So you have just some quick, quick tips from the road. How do you work from the road for months at end?

So we got a WeBoost. It's an RV WiFi accelerator for Internet. And that was life changing. So as an example, we went to Crater Lake and we were, we had to get work done. We were really worried and we said, if we can't work from up there and there's not a strong enough signal to boost it, we're going to have to drive back into town. And that's just, you know, if you follow any Van Lifers, like, it's a big challenge. And working for cop from coffee shops is loud. And even right now during COVID like no one wants to work in a coffee shop. So we've gotten lucky with our weboost and we were able to, you know, pull into places with a little bit of signal and still get enough to work from the road. So.

Okay, yeah, that's pretty awesome. Are there a number of other, like, startup entrepreneurs in that kind of lifestyle too? Is there like a sense to like, meet up with other Van Life?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So there's so the, I mean, one big community and just because I've advised them is the Van Life app through the techstars program. And so they have an enormous community worldwide, actually, and they do lots of meetups and galvanize that community around people who are also young working professionals that are still trying to work from the road. And there's other communities out there as well that, you know, families. People are traveling full time with their families and working on the road. And I think she said, at last estimate, there's close to a million full time van lifers on the road.

That's incredible.

That's been a very exciting, like you mentioned before, just community. Right. It's been a fun new community to, to learn about and figure out how you can be supported. It can be lonely on the road. There's lots of solo females, you know, out there on the road. It's like you can only be alone for so long before you have to bump into human interaction. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So you transitioned your company to fully remote and kept running the company. Kind of you want to take us through kind of what, what that experience was like?

Yeah. So last year was a pretty big pivotal moment. So. So last February in 2019, I lost my younger brother who was 39, to suicide. And that sped up everything that we were doing and everything became clear as day. It was very traumatic as anyone can imagine. And he was 39 and we were very close. So mental health and mental wellness is a very important thing to me also as it relates to entrepreneurism. And it really forced me to take a step back and evaluate that I needed a mental break. So for the last year, I took a step back from Tap Hunter and we lived on the road pretty much full time. And I just, you know, I felt broken. I wasn't, I didn't have my mojo back from trying to, you know, kind of get some rest from running the company. And then I lost my younger brother. And so, you know, I still have really tough days, but I have a lot of support. And so, you know, it's, it's been a crazy year. So fast forward our, our plan was to be on the road for the next two to three years. And due to current events, that's changed once again. Our lives have done another 180 and the road will always be there. It just feels unsafe and also partially irresponsible to be traveling through some smaller towns that we like through Mammoth and Yosemite when, you know, Mono county has. I forget what it is, like five, you know, ICU beds. It's like, no, I'm not going to get hurt hiking and take up a bed for someone who needs it in small communities. So we're still trying to evaluate that situation. So I'm actually in Reno right now just trying to figure out, you know, what our next moves are. But we will get back on the road. We're just trying to be mindful about it. So right now I'm in the middle of starting my Third company. And I couldn't be happier and I couldn't be more proud of the Tap Hunter team that handles the day to day. They're on the front lines right now. And so if you remember, we sell software to bars and restaurants and they're fighting for our customers. They're. They're therapists for our customers. We just spent the last two months of a lot of them being suspended because they're closed, and now things are starting to reopen. And so you talk about a group of people that inspire me every day. These are the ones that are on the front lines trying to help bars and restaurants get back to business. I get the goosebumps talking about this because I'm very passionate about small businesses. Yeah. So Tap Hunter is alive and well and thriving, and we're doing the best we can through, you know, through Covid. And then I'm also starting a coaching business, which is something I've always loved. So. So that's what I'm working on these days is getting that launched and getting a new podcast launched.

Oh, exciting. Wow.

Yeah.

So the kind of the world was calling to you even more and more to like, hey, how about family and close friends, which has brought you to Reno. Sounds like to be full time with family.

Yes.

Right. Because you could have chosen anywhere, I.

Guess, to plant roots anywhere I could have. And I said, let's be close to friends and family, if not now. When was the title of the PowerPoint that I gave my husband in 2016. And then 2019, I got handed another shit sandwich and I just said, life's too short. And I feel like if there's anyone out there listening that, you know, this is resonating. And look, I've missed the weddings. I miss my best friend's 30th birthday. You got to do what you got to do in the first year or two to get your company off the ground. But, you know, there's. There's a moment in time where you got to. I mean, uncle, seriously, like you, there's. There's only so long you can go like that. And so I just hope that my story and message can help someone out there who might be feeling that. Especially during these times, people feel disconnected and lonely and, you know, it's very hard. So if you're a startup founder out there trying to get these companies off the ground in these times, I just. I can't even imagine. I mean, I was an evo nexus with people around me every single day.

So, yeah, So, I mean, the resiliency in an entrepreneur is definitely like a trait that keeps on going, let alone all the life lessons that you know, sounds like you've had obviously too. Is that kind of overview of like what the. Your this business is. Is coaching in that respect.

Yeah, yeah. So my goal really is to be working with budding entrepreneurs and aspiring entrepreneurs like the founders of the Van Life. The Van Life app. Right. And they're in that early stage. There's something very special about that stage. And I've been through that stage a few times now all the way to the end of the Tap Hunter cycle. And then there's something very special about seniors in college. And so I mentor through the San Diego Lab and Center. And so I'm looking at setting up peer groups for those specific demographics, if that makes sense. So it's the, the seniors in college or they just graduated. And then also the, the kind of the early stage entrepreneurs. And so those are the, the two audiences that I feel really pulled and compelled to, to help. And I think the, the other interesting part I just remember too about the Top Hunter story. So we actually went 100% remote. And what's really interesting because I don't, I haven't really posted this publicly is that we actually did an investor buyback. And so through the profits of our company, we did a buyback and I think we have six of 27 investors still on. And so we actually reorged our company to not be the growth at all costs, burn cash every month for growth. We actually took the company profitable and instead of owning little tiny bit, we now out own the majority of the company. And it gives us optionality, it gives us a different way to operate. So at the time when I was going through that, there's not a lot of people who've done that. And so if there's anyone out there that has questions or they're like, what in the heck is she talking about? I think that's the other part of my story that I want to share with people that we've gone through a very non traditional crazy windy friggin roller coaster. And so that's kind of the full outcome of where Top Hunter is today.

Very cool. Wow. Kind of a full circle in terms of raising money, then returning it back, but still running the company bootstrapped in a certain sense. That's pretty great. So that's what you'll be talking about on your podcast and your blog, a lot of those stories and awesome.

So I was able to, I don't know, convince Arm Wrestle Trick. My husband into being on the podcast. So it's called Fierce and Free and we're going to share a lot of our crazy stories and journeys and things that I just have always. People are like, you need to be sharing that. Or one of the Startup San Diego Startup Week panels that we've done before. Startup founders don't talk about. And so that's really where a lot of my coaching and my website and the podcast came from is I would get a lot of people coming up and saying, oh my gosh, people aren't talking about this. People aren't talking about how long they went without paying themselves and all of that stuff. And so it's. It's more of that.

That's awesome. I'm really excited. I already listened to the first two episodes. I love it. I love just hearing you and flash talk. I mean, obviously just like, just hearing. That's great. So what's the website that we make sure we get it called out and we'll put in the show notes too?

Yeah, it's melaniegordon.com. so it's M E L A N I gordon.com. so Melanie has no E on it.

Okay. Awesome. And so you're away from us in San Diego, yet I still hear about you all the time from other entrepreneurs from AL and others. And you're on the startup slack, so I know where to find you. But there's certain things that you don't get to enjoy in San Diego, like some taco spots, some local beers, anything, some favorites that you miss. And we'll probably make your way back down to Grab.

Yes. So La Fashada and El Paisa. Am I saying that right? El. El Paesa Paeza. Thank you. Those are my two favorite. And I guess is it Barrio Logan?

Ish.

Yeah, we. We lived in east village for 13 years, so that's where we went. Those were our taco shops. Yeah.

I'm sure you got this question all the time, like, did you have favorite San Diego beers or were you ever allowed to say you had a favorite or.

Society. I love the founders of society, what they stand for, how they built their company. I'm a huge fan of Modern Times and the stuff that they've done and employee owned and they stand for something and they have a voice. I have lots of others. I'm sure people are mad that I didn't mention theirs, but those are the two that are recent and there's so many new craft breweries in Reno, so I'm so excited to check them out as well. So that'll be fun.

Okay, well, excited to follow you along on Instagram to find your favorites and then come visit one day soon.

Yes.

Mel loves having you on the podcast. Sorry it took so long, but I'm really excited for you to continue telling your story on your own podcast, so we'll make sure we share that. Say hi to Flash for us.

I will.

And thanks so much for being on the pod.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us on the Tacos and Tech podcast with Neil Blum. Thanks again to Cox Business for helping make this possible by expanding the reach of the San Diego tech ecosystem. Big shout out to School of Rap for our rad intro music. And thanks as well to Nest Podcast Network where we are recording live inside their studio at Nest Coworking in Bankers Hill. You can find Neil Bloom on Twitter eelbloom as well as Fresh brewed Tech and Tacos in Tech Pod on Twitter too.

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