Providing Fresh and Quality Seafood Sustainably With Lauran Madden of BlueNalu

Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. You want tech and tacos, tacos and tech you know we got tacos and tech is on smash border green guacamole keeper captains counting beans Contador quentan frijoles found us trying to raise some queso la vida San Diego school of rappy rapping fire tortillas round jalapenos in these modern times a crappy and coffee my coding yoga posse fold the body origami we be surfing coronado eating tacos El gordo, the taco standing puesto lucha libre and sombrero Got a shout out to cost angels by the ocean watch the sunset la Jolla shores Entrepreneurs trying to get funded When San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer Oceanside, the Tijuana esti be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach Tech leaders believe stars are within reach we interview and founders who be shooting for the moon SD Tecos with your host, Neil Bloom. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

Welcome to the Tacos and Tech Podcast. I'm your host, Neil Bloom, and I'm thrilled to have you here. On the Tacos and Tech Podcast. We interview builders of technologies, of companies, of communities, and we do it weekly, so thanks for tuning in. Every Tuesday, a new interview and on Fridays we talk about what's new in the San Diego tech ecosystem from a news perspective. So make sure you join us there as well too. We also have a tech newsletter that comes out every other week@freshbroodtech.com you can subscribe to listen to it without further ado. Enjoy this episode and welcome back to the Tacos and Tech Podcast. I'm your host, Neal Bloom, and I am thrilled to have another chance to get to know the team at bluenalu with the cto, Lauren Madden. Hey, Lauren, thanks for being on the pod with us here.

Hi, Neil. Happy to be here.

Really thrilled to get to know your background and where Bluenalo's been. We had Lou on about three years ago. Obviously a lot's gone on since then in the world, in the industry and at bluenalu. So we're. And do you want to kind of give us a quick overview again of what Blue Nalu is for our audience?

Sure. So Blue Nalu is a company focused on creating seafood products from cells. So these cell culture seafood products are, you know, great tasting and really the same as the products you would be getting today, except without going to the animal. And really using this new innovative process with enhanced sustainability and also with reduced presence of potential contaminants such as microplastics, mercury, or other things that are in our oceans today that may not lead to the healthiest seafood products.

A lot of really good aspects to this for the world, for the environment, for all of us. Growing the usable parts of fish for our food. Did you. This is obviously a very new category in the food industry. So I can't imagine you grew up wanting to get into this. How did you find your way into. Into kind of the cell based protein field? Where'd you start?

No, good point. I actually grew up just loving science. So my background is initially in chemical engineering. I have a degree from Cornell and then I did my PhD in bioengineering at University of Washington, but was always really focused on cell culture technologies and really the understanding of biology and applications of that in industry. So I spent several years working in tissue engineering, mostly focused on regenerative medicine as well as, you know, kind of tissue in a dish to, you know, remove the use of animals in terms of drug screening or preparation of tissues for implantation. And so I've always been very aligned with the self ultra technologies and really trying to apply them in ways to not only enhance our lives and human health, but also, you know, reduce the reliance on animals. And so four years ago when I joined the company, this was a much newer industry. And but one thing I noticed was that there's so many technologies that exist in cell culture. And why can't we apply that to fish or other animals? And you know, rather than creating for example, a muscle for like a replacement heart, why can't we create a fish filet or a chicken breast? And so I was really intrigued and joined the company. So since then it's just been a very exciting time creating a lot of new technologies around fish. You know, now focusing on bluefid tuna and really experiencing this kind of pivotal time in creating new food products from cells and harnessing this, you know, innate biology and technology to create a totally new supply chain of seafood products.

Wow. Yeah, you bring up a great point around the other aspects. I guess this technology has been used and especially it sounds like in San Diego, so, you know, kind of emerging of some deep domain expertise of cell culture. Where. When did San Diego first get on your radar as a place to kind of apply your studies for that?

So I moved to San Diego actually originally working at a bioprinting company.

So I mean bioprinting break that down for us.

Oh, so bioprinting is taking cells and then I mean kind of like what it says, printing them in different ways to recreate what the tissue would be in your body. So I focused a lot on intestine as well as liver tissues in developing systems to mimic what would happen in the body and then using those for either drug screening or disease modeling. But San Diego in general has a really wide breadth of various biotechnologies. So obviously I was in, in that bioprinting, tissue engineering. There's a lot of both small and large companies in terms of pharmaceutical companies and there's also various fermentation companies on the food side that use a lot of these different technologies but applying them obviously in very different products.

So technology and used in other places. Which means also a lot of talent around who have kind of deep domain expertise meets new category which Blue Nalo is tapping into. I mean I'd say that's a, that's pretty kind of one plus one equals three talent technology. And obviously the need. Tell us a bit about obviously the industry is kind of the area that needs to catch up maybe right. Of just like people don't know the things that they're eating. And so where did. From where you've joined a Blue Nalu to now like has the industry seen and still kind of early adopter phase. Take us through that especially related to the technology applying to it.

So I think the industry as a whole is still in this early adopter phase. And I think part of that's driven by, you know, worldwide there's only been a single regulatory approval and that was in Singapore. And so in the US it's still very much, you know, new. Very few people have tasted the products. And so we're still in the phase of communicating what are we really doing with this technology. What are these products doing? How do they mean? You know, how would they integrate into your life? And hopefully over the next couple of years as we gain regulatory approval and scale up, they'll become more and more common, similar to what we've seen in the plant based products. As they're more available in restaurants and people can enjoy them, it's a lot easier to understand. Oh, you are creating bluefin tuna. This is the same great product but it has all these benefits. And now we know, you know, we really know where it's coming from. We know that there's a good safety profile and it still has the same delicious taste.

Got it. I think most people can picture you know, like a brewery facility. At least in San Diego, almost all of us have been one now and can see the, the fermenter. What's it like fermenting or brewing fish cells? What's the technology? And without, I know there's an IP piece to it as well we don't have to go into, but just like what's it, what's the operation like to scale something up like this?

So I will say it's, it's actually quite similar to brewing. So for folks who have actually been up near where we are located in the Miramar area, and I've may have been to Bellows Point or one of the other breweries, it's taking the cells then understanding what kind of nutrients. So for example salts, sugars, amino acids, vitamins, do they require to grow really well. And then in these stainless steel tanks you basically grow the cells there. You know, if you can kind of imagine individual cells swirling around in the liquid, just kind of happy and growing. And then once we have the biomass created, we can then put that through in extrusion process. And I always like to say it's similar to pasta. So how you kind of, you know, mix the flour and water together, put it through the process and then out comes all your different shapes, whether that's linguine, Thorfolly, et cetera. But in our case we're shaping a Saku block. So the same as you would, you know, see in a sushi restaurant. Typically sushi comes in these nice little blocks, like 3 inches by 8 inches. Ish. And that would be the final product that we can then deliver to the restaurant or, or the retail grocery stores.

Oh wow. Okay. So it's like one giant hunk of sashimi that's in this vat in a sense. Increased size of vat, increased size of the bioblock or I'm guessing there's some orders of Mac. There's some scaling pieces to this in the science or what does that part take there?

There's definitely a scale up procedure. So when you start any new process you start at what we call the bench scale. So that might be single digit, a couple liters of bioreactor. And really you need to understand how are your cells going to perform under different. You know, we're dealing with fish cells which have unique environmental components. So if you can imagine, you know, where a bluefin tuna lives and likes to be happy is different than where a crab lives or where a chicken lives. So we have to understand temperature, oxygen needs, the shear forces and what are all those performance envelopes look like. And then we scale that up, typically about 5 to 10x at a time, using both the equipment in house as well as various computational models that we can develop, and then eventually getting to those very large scales like UNC at a brewery that are typically on the a hundred thousand liter or above to make, you know, millions of pounds of material.

Wow. There's a lot I can imagine that goes into that and a lot of like sounds like dials to turn while trying to be scientific and really running a process that's like not turning too many things to really understand like what, what controls the outcome in that regard. And then I'm guessing in your case the outcome, the best outcome is highest of quality. Right. Is that kind of how fish and sashimi is graded? So is that kind of where a lot of this goes into?

Yeah, for us, the product quality is really central to a lot of things we do here as long as, as well as the product safety aspects. So in terms of the products we're currently working on, which is bluefin tuna Toro, it's really known for its flavor profile and fattiness. So two of the most important things for us are do you have that characteristic flavor mouth feel, it kind of melts in your mouth, it has a very high fat content. And in really being able to match all of those attributes. So that, for example, if someone were to go to a sushi restaurant and do a side by side, you know, I'll have the blue Nalo Toro and I'll have a conventional Toro. We want them to have the same amazing dining experience. And at the same time the process, because it's much more controlled than, you know, fish being out in the ocean, we can also make sure we have really high reproducibility, you know, really high, really good stable supply chains, as well as controlling for that safety factor, making sure we don't have those contaminants like mercury or microorganisms that are a challenge in the conventional products.

Wow, really interesting. What does future development look like? Is it about even further quality? Is it different kinds of products? Like different pieces of or different kinds of fish? Like, where do you kind of go from here? And I guess kind of tell us where you are in this stage and how soon to market you guys are?

Yeah. So in with the bluefin Toronto Toro product, we have developed the product in general and we've done press releases. We have a facility in San Diego that is our pilot scale facility meant to do GMP production at small scales. So with the first product, you know, we're in scale up mode, anticipating regulatory approval in the near term future. And so that'll enable this first small market launch really to get additional consumer feedback. But we are targeting global launch over the next few years, not only in the US but also in Asia as well as Europe. And then one great thing about the technology that we've developed is we haven't only done bluefin tuna, we've actually done different demonstrations for yellowtail mahi mahi, other different finfish. And we are looking forward to continuing to expand the portfolio not only with other fish species, but also potentially to crabs or mollusks or any other desirable seafood product.

Oh, wow, that's awesome. You make a good relation point to ballast point, whose all their beers are named after fishes, by the way.

Yeah.

Which is kind of fun. So maybe there's a collaboration there down the road to do a beer and sushi or tuna pairing, which would be perfect.

It'll be a really fun dinner.

Yeah, exactly. Where do you see hurdles from like the consumer adopting this? What's your take on that?

Yeah, I think right now, from what we've seen, a lot of it is just the unknown. So, you know, whenever you have something new and particularly when you don't have it in front of you, it's hard to imagine, okay, where is this coming from? And so we, you know, we have published different articles just to help people understand first. Why are we doing this? One thing I think that's not fully well known is really the vulnerability of our seafood supply chain. And I think we've seen it in recent days. You know, bluefin tuna, for example, over the past few decades there's been almost like a 90% decrease in the stocks. And it's very highly regulated. So there's not really room to increase the bluefin tuna as much. And this is true of many fish that are wild caught. And at the same time, you also have global warming, which is restricting a lot of the breeding and changing their migration patterns, as well as different contaminants, you know, microplastics, mercury, et cetera. So there's so many challenges to the existing supply chain. There's really a need to drive a new solution. And so obviously we're creating the technology for that solution. And then I think the second thing is having the product be easily accessible. So for example, you know, we want to provide a saku block that the chef can used in the same way. So if you enjoy a nigiri, we want to provide you that nigiri. If you want to you know, make a spicy tuna roll. You know, we want you to be able to do that. And so as we do our product development and we have this high quality reproducible product, we do a lot of applications testing and make sure that our product is going to perform the same as the conventional. So it will be really easy for folks to enjoy all the same great dishes that they're used to, but without the guilt that comes from animal derived products today.

Yeah. And obviously plant based proteins have helped at least breach the conversation globally. We can debate all day if they really are doing what they say they're doing and. Right, I'm sure. But you get to avoid a lot of those conversations as well and just say we're just an alternative manufacturing process of creating the same thing that you're eating. But as a startup, I mean you have to do sounds like you have to do a lot of educating as well, which is always tough to do alongside also developing the technology. How do you split your time as a CTO around that is it all heads down, just focus on the tech or where is it around? Cause you also have to recruit talent to say come along for this as well too. How do you split your time in that regard?

I will say that, you know, the majority of my time is spent on the technology side, but it's also providing that understanding to our marketing and PR teams to help us draft press releases or information on the website. So we have the blue and holy website as as well as an eat blue website that really helps try to provide that information in an easily digestible way. So for example, our last press release was on the techno economic analysis and also on a couple of the core technologies in terms of suspension cells and lipid loading. And so we do the articles but then we also have the PR team will do blogs that are kind of trying to explain it in easier to understand terms for those without like Ph.D. or a highly technical background. And so I'll work with them to make sure okay, this is correct. And I think what we try to do is be as open as possible with the information we can give today and hopefully it's as digestible as possible to those folks who are our future consumers who we want to understand what the product is and how we're making it based on the stage the company is at today.

That makes sense. You know you mentioned you've been here for a bit, worked in now I guess a few different industries, but related to kind of the bio printing and biops, how have you found like the technical community Especially now at a CTO level. I guess all other CTOs in this space are kind of peers. Is there a peership? Do you find that you connect with others at the CTO level in that are local and share notes, share ideas around how to build the technical roadmap of your company?

So, interestingly, there's not very many companies of this nature in San Diego. So I think to that level typically. And now that conferences are back up and running, really connecting at conferences with other CTOs. Because I think one thing in this industry that's unique is that a lot of us are scaling at a similar rate. So, you know, we connect with quite a few companies, whether that's chicken companies or beef companies, and compare notes on, you know, how the scale up is going. Are there partnership opportunities? But we found, particularly when you're not competing against a company, there is more room to work together. And I think, you know, one thing that we've been able to do also is kind of integrate a little bit with the existing fermentation companies or pharmaceutical companies that they've scaled their processes. They're, you know, similar in terms of the types of infrastructure or the types of roadmaps that one might need to see. So we've been very glad in the San Diego community to be able to even have toured some of people's facilities to kind of look at how they have approached similar situations. And so that has been very helpful in terms of the local community.

Yeah, that's really smart to kind of find complementary industries and then look at the ones who've been there, done that before and be like, hey, don't make this mistake that cost us dollars or years or something. Right. So that's great to find that kind of connections and mentorship or peership, however you want to call it. The other thing we do great in San Diego and you guys are building towards is have great tacos, whether it's fish or meat, you know, do you have a favorite spot? I'm guessing it's a little biased based on the kind of business you're. You're building as well, or. No, no, I'm.

I'm unbiased in my taco eating, but I do enjoy it. I think I have two different ones. One that we go to that's more close to my house is Senor Taco. Two, it's in Poway. And I think because they have a more traditional menu, so you get a lot of the more interesting cuts of meat in different dishes. And then if I really want a more modern one, with a really good cocktail. I'll head over to Puesto and La Jolla for some of the a little bit modernized.

Yeah, well, sit down. Experience a little nicer taco. Broader range. But yeah, there's a taco for every kind of part of the day that there is for sure in San Diego. Great options. Puesta's been mentioned many times, but not senior Taco too. So a new addition to the taco database that we've got here and I hope one day we are tracking on our own database in a certain way the way that Blue Nalo is served at some at many of these places or maybe success looks like where you can't differentiate and actually it's not highlighted and people are eating it at Puesto and Senior Taco too. You know, to be determined I guess. But Lauren, thanks so much for being on. We love hearing just what interesting product Blue Nal is building and meeting the team behind the scenes. So thank you so much and keep up the great work.

All right, thanks so much.

Cheers. Thanks for tuning in to Tacos and Tech Podcasts. You can find all of our episodes on freshbreedtech.com well as on Twitter at Tacos and Tech Pod. Also follow Fresh bretech on all of our social platforms and make sure to share and give a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify or Google Play. Thanks again.

Startups get the party Startups get the party started. Startups get the party Startups get the party started. You want tech in tacos, tacos in tech, you know we got it, hey. Startups get the party Startups get the party started. Startups get the party Startups get the party started. Startups get the party Startups get the party started. You want tech and tacos, tacos in tech. You know we got it.

Hey, you know we got it, you know we got it, you know we got it.