The Return of a North County Builder

Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

You want tech and tacos, Tacos and tech, you know we got it. Hey.

Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started. Startups get the party. Startups get the party started.

You want tech and tacos, tacos and tech, you know we got it. Hey.

Let'S do it.

Welcome back to the tacos and tech podcast mobile edition from my car as I pretty much am in half the time taking calls and meetings with all of you and I am thrilled to have a long time ecosystem friend, serial founder, north county local, Drew Wilson from valleycon and Opacity. Hey Drew, thanks for joining the pod.

How's it going? Thanks for having me. It's good to chat. It is.

It's been a bit, but also we go back a bit since the Plaso days, man. Like that's, you know, a whole, whole Covid ago. Probably double that time frame. Probably 10 years ago.

Yeah, that would have been probably 20, 17, 18.

Yeah, yeah. When I think you were in. What was that co working space used to work out of over in Carlsbad, I think is where I found you.

Yeah, that, that was common grounds and I had an office above it and then they started building it out and then I had a. Another office in it because they wanted to promote having more startups there. So they gave me a free office.

Yep, I remember it. And you're like, let's do more startup stuff. And then in north county and we did, we got Startup Week to do a whole Carlsbad day which is now an annual thing every now the week starts at Carlsbad of every year of Santa's Startup Week. So we're onto something you went on to with Plaso. Take us back a little bit. Actually, let's go back even further. Like how'd you get down into this tech world and what's the connection to San Diego for you?

Yeah, the tech world has always been a part of me and going back like to the early 90s, my dad always bought Apple computers so I never had a PC in the house all growing up.

And you still have the original dad pops computer right behind you.

Looks like this one isn't. This one wasn't his. Uh, but yes, this is the, this is the Macintosh portable, the first laptop before they were called laptops. That thing was 16 pounds, had a lead acid battery. That one still fully works, which is fine. But back at that time my dad had Photoshop when it was version two, before there was layers and that's when I started working with it and then sometime later taught myself how to code. Everyone was making little websites with 3D rotating like mailboxes and stuff. So I was doing that back then on Macromedia Flash.

No. What was it then?

So yeah, it was just HTML and CSS and then. Yep, got into Flash for sure. Made a bunch of Flash websites, made websites for bands, for companies, that sort of thing and just kind of had my own little small business doing websites for people. And then.

And then MySpace put you out of business? No, I'm just kidding.

I never was, I never was even on MySpace. Somehow I missed that boat. But in. I've always wanted to like at that point I always wanted to move down to the sun and the surf and I didn't know anybody in San Diego but I just kind of moved without knowing a soul in 2002 and so I was 18, moved down and have been here ever since and, and absolutely love it. So there was no like huge reason to move down. I didn't go to university or anything like that. Just came down and continued doing design work, trying to make a, make a living and shortly after, you know, built my first piece of software that I tried to sell and that sort of thing. And yeah, have, have always been an engineer as well. So in the late 90s taught myself how to code starting with PHP. And so I've always been someone that built my own stuff and that kind of all came to as you mentioned in your last, last time you were speaking was Plaso, which was an E commerce platform that I sold to GoDaddy. It was bootstrapped. And then in 2016 I did something I'd never done before which was raise money for my company. And so I was solo founder, only person at the company, only person doing anything and then raised a small round of 1.6 million dollar round and then, or maybe it was 1.3, I don't know. And then built out a small team. Two years later godaddy came knocking and that's when I was in Carlsbad above Common Grounds and sold the company to them. It's their E commerce platform today and that was a super fun experience. So that catches us up there.

It does. That's pretty right. Was GoDaddy already in San Diego or that became. Their San Diego office was with the Plaso team.

So they actually had just come into San Diego a year and a half prior with a different acquisition. GoDaddy has something called, I think it's Smartline, which is kind of like Google Voice but it's GoDaddy's version. And they had acquired a company and a San Diego company and Encinitas company that was doing that and they made it Smartline and they, they needed an office and so they got one at that, the make building in Carlsbad. So they had just like just moved in a few months prior to our acquisition.

Oh wow. And that gave you a nice home.

Also right in Carlsbad which is literally down the street. It's very close to where Common Grounds was. So that was fun.

You just had to cross the railroad tracks pretty much, right? I think.

Yeah.

With one exit. Yeah, that's pretty.

Not super far. Not super far. It was a cool experience. It was my first time having a salary job in my entire life. I had never had one before. I had had like part time jobs, just a couple of them but everything else was, was always just like an entrepreneurial sort of thing making money. So that was my first experience having a job.

And how did it feel?

Couldn't get out good. I learned a ton. It's a huge company that at that, at that time they were 10,000 plus employees. And so I got to learn for the first time what a product manager does. I had heard what I heard about it but I had no idea what they actually did. And so that was a big learning and then learning like the corporate hierarchy and how things work. I was brought in. Most people, I won't say that some people think of me as a designer, some people think of me as an Engineer. But at GoDaddy I was an engineer. I mean I designed too but my title was an engineer. So I was running the engineering department for payments. Built out that whole team. And so I was an engineer there which was fun. And so I learned a lot about the engineering side of organization and then also obviously design too because I was a part of like the design board there's thing. So it's fun.

Got it. And then I think I remember you saying I'm starting a bank.

And so yeah, kind of a funny story about that one. I, I think I was six months in and by the way I was enjoying it. Like the, the deal for me was like a cash upfront deal. They're like, you could pick cash or equity. I'm like dang, that's crazy. So I was like cash and then you can stay for like a couple of years if you want or not. And I'm like, I'll stay. And so it. And there was like a few extra carrots for me if I stayed. And so I did. And. But it was so nice in the beginning to like not have to worry about anything because Plaso was like extremely difficult. At the very end of Plaso, I remember Plaza was making enough money for me and like one other person. And then I raised money and in the end it was doing a little bit better, but not much better about a year and a half later and. And so I had to let people go. And I came into the office on a Friday and I let the last two people go. The biggest, I think our team was like nine or ten people. And so then that weekend was horrible, by the way. I had like taken out a bunch of credit cards and loans, personal loans on the same day, so that way they wouldn't know about each other to like self fund this. And even that money ran out. And then it's Monday morning, I come into the office. I'm the only person. I'm like, gosh dang it. Well, I guess it's all to me again. And that morning in my inbox is an email from GoDaddy. And that was the first contact. And then, yeah, three months. It seemed like eternity, but it was only three months. Three months later they bought the. Bought the company, which is great. But then, so I'm like excited to like just chill at godaddy. I won the getting done award in the company because we integrated Plaso into their system in six months, which is the fastest any acquisition has ever happened in the company. So that was really fun. And so I was kind of enjoying it and. But I guess I can only go so long before I want to do something else. And so yes, I decided to start a bank because I had just come into money. I. Nobody in my family has money. Nobody I know has any sort of money. So I'm like, what the crap do I do with money? And it was like a very opaque world to figure that out. There's no website or app you can go to figure that out. So I was like, I should start a bank to make this easier and better. And so, yeah, like six months in, I had kind of started the process. By a year later, I had already had the company. I got into YC while it was at GoDaddy. It was YC 2020. That was the first and only time they did a fully remote batch. And so that's what made me like, do yc. There was like, there's like two days left to like apply and I'm like it's remote this time, I guess I'll just do it. So I applied and it took like four interviews but I got in and that was a fun experience. And so yeah, I ran that bank for like four years but had to shut it down because we couldn't, we couldn't get product market fit. But it was really cool. Made like a fully in house lending platform. No humans in the loop. Get a loan right away. We're loaning out this billionaires money that we had partnered with to folks. It was a super cool experience, like a matrix. Just learn everything about finance real quick. Was good.

Amazing. I mean I think a lot of us go through this almost unfortunately at the after the exit happens we're like dang, I should have done a lot of stuff ahead of time. Right. Wealth wise. And then we also learn a lot about like man, my identity was really tied to my company and as an entrepreneur, like loss of, loss of identity a little bit. Do you kind of experience some of that as well too?

No, I mean the money side like yeah, sure. I wish I would have known more. Like I, I don't think I really knew about investing in stocks until like while I was doing Plaso but I never had money, I never had extra money to do it. I always put all my money into whatever I was working on. But Plaso was my third E commerce platform and I had many other companies before that, like number one app in the app store, number one top paid, number one top free. Yeah. Multiple other sorts of companies did the Value Con conference at that point at our dinner for like six years. So my identity was never tied into one thing because the first thing I ever made, yeah sure, that was my baby. But that was at that point that was like 10 or 12 years prior. So yeah, I don't, I don't think I experienced any of that. I was very happy to, to go through that, you know, kind of acquisition and experience that for the first time solo and do all that. So that was the fun for me. It was very fun and exciting. Yeah, yeah.

Just to go experience, learn something new while also compounding what you had already learned which was you know, building some of the tech side and bringing that to the non tech financial world. For sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You alluded to this. You had already started Value Account. So when, when did that all begin? Give us the background of that. Doing your first conference.

Yeah, I, when I moved down to San Diego there wasn't like any Sort at least that I knew any sort of tech stuff going on. And I think it was 2006 or 5, something like that, I got invited to this group of tech folk, I guess, and there was like 12 of us. And we met in do we be. We met in Solana beach at some point. There was some like, startup over there right on the beach. And we met in that facility. And I remember they invited me to give a talk. And I was like, I didn't even know like what a meetup was. Never been to one. Didn't really know what a talk was. And so I did my Talk on transparent PNGs and building UIs with transparent PNGs, because that was the hotness back then. It was a while ago, and I super enjoyed that. That was the first time I was like hanging out with other tech folk in my entire life. Because I grew up in a very rural part of Washington state, There was no other tech folk anywhere. And so that, like, meetup was my first time doing that. And then. And then probably three years later, like 2007, eight or nine, something around there, I had worked with another buddy to start this web guild is what we called it. And there was like a number of web guilds across the country. And we met in Osullivin's Tavern in downtown Carlsbad. And so we did that for like, I don't know, like a year or something like that. And it was like the only meetup that we knew of in San Diego. We were doing it in North County. And so did that for a little while, but, you know, just got kind of burnt out, moved on to other things. And then in 2010, I started planning the first Value Con. And the whole inspiration behind Value Con, which is a creative tech conference, was I had never been to a conference before, and I kept seeing these design conferences and tech conferences having the same exact people at every single one. I'm like, that's lame. Those people, as I saw it, weren't even the real practitioners doing the actual cool work anyways. They were just the established ones that had like a book on Penguin or, you know, whatever the, you know, typical tech book company is. And I like, that's lame. There needs to be like a conference for people that have never spoken before. And so that was like the original inspiration for Val. I wanted to do it where I lived, so I did it in Carlsbad. I did in the Village at the Carlsbad Inn. They have a little attic area above the Daily News Cafe. And they said it could fit 70 people. And we packed it out with like 74 or something. And we. They didn't give us anything. They had no ability to, like run a conference for you. So we had to bring in our own sound stuff. We. We had to run rope across the ceiling and then like screw something into their ceiling to hang a projector. And the walls were like slanted, so the projector was like pointing slanted on the wall. We had chairs, but people were like sitting on the floor because we didn't have enough. It was a fun time. And that was 2011, I think. Yeah, early 2011, when that actually took place. And then I did it for six years or seven years. And 2016 was the last one that I did. That first one was the only one in Carlsbad. All the other ones, if in order to, like, get bigger, there's nowhere on the north county coast that could. That could fit more than that. So we went down to the Hyatt in Mission Bay for one year. It was all right. Didn't really like that. And then the rest of the years we were at the Catamaran in Mission Bay, which is really cool, beach vibe and everything. And we would do like cookouts on the beach. So we'd have hodads come make burgers, like literally on the sand. Phil's Barbecue, a taco shop. And so people would, you know, eat. And I wanted to be all inclusive and all that, that kind of feel. And it was always a longer conference. It was like five days and it was fun. And then I got busy. And so 2016 was the last conference. And then, yeah, nine year break. And now this year I'm bringing it back. And now I can actually bring it back to North County. So since then they built. Yeah, since then they built some resorts. One of them being the Seabird. It's the Hyatt Resort. Basically the exact same as the Mission right next to it. Same company, same. Yeah, same people running it. And so it's a cool spot. They've got an awesome conference hall that, like, looks out onto the pier and so you can see the ocean while you're sitting there. It's going to be fun. So that's September 11th through 14th in Oceanside. And that's Valiocon 2025.

Amazing. So cool that it's back. I love the Seabird. That whole lobby. I just want to sit in every couch. Like, it's just got such a vibe in that entire lobby. So I'm excited for just the vibes during. Throughout the entire week of just hanging you know.

Yeah, I totally agree. And it's, they got the, they have the, the house from the Top Gun that's now pie shop there, which is fun.

It is fun. Yeah. Yeah. Downtown Oceanside got a big upgrade in that regard.

Oh a hundred percent. Yeah, it's, it's super cool. The city's come a long way in the last 20 years for sure.

Yeah. Well, congrats man. I'm super stoked. I know you've got some great names speaking some like OG San Diego connections too. Hidden Shaw's got some deep roots here, which is cool. Who else you've got speaking that you can drip out or tease us?

Yeah, Linus Inklestam, who's like a designer. AI Evangelist. Roger King, who is kind of an OG Figma designer. Been on that team for a long time like you said. Heaton Shah. Pablo Stanley, who has Lumi AI, which is, you know, kind of similar to Midjourney. Sold it, sold that company just recently. He'll be there. Hannah Herth, who's the director of product design at webflow. Tom Kercha, who's actually local as well and he's co creator of Adobe XD which is super cool. Designer from Post Hog. Christina Cordova, who's the CEO Linear will be here as well.

So yeah, it's gonna linear San Diego or they moved to San Diego or at least the CEO moved to San Diego, right?

Yeah, he splits his time in Del Mar and elsewhere.

Love it. Yeah, yeah, some good local roots but also global thought leaders all, you know, converging in North County. So excited for, to bring this and thanks man for your nine year hiatus and then getting back at it.

Yeah, yeah, it's fun. We, we do a kickoff every Valley of Con with a bonfire on the beach, doing s' mores and for a lot of people because most people come to Valliocon are not from San Diego and so for a lot of people it's like their first time doing s' mores and so it's a really fun experience and this year I'm hoping to get more San Diegans there and, and joining us. Yeah, there's, there's, there's not many usually and, and I wish it was different. I wish they would come out for it. So hopefully if anyone's listening, you should come out. There's a discount code.

So we got a discount code here. But even more so, I mean honestly, the north county scene is really growing up like you. You've been to Hussein's north county mixer. They almost regularly get near 150, 200 people coming a monthly basis to the Leucadian, which pre Covid, you know, you would have walked in and stuck to the floor at the time, you know, at whatever pool table. Now there's a whole, like, background lounge with 150 to 200 tech people of North County. So I think north county has grown up from a tech ecosystem piece. And so therefore we will show up for sure.

Yeah, it's. He's got a cool event. If you're listening to this, you should definitely go to his event too.

Yeah, for sure he'll be there. Another north county guy, Hussein, who pretty much powers our event through event chip. And I'm stoked to do some s' mores with you, that's for sure. Do you have s' mores is the, you know, unofficial sponsor of the tacos and tech pod. You know, it really is a dessert taco if you think about it, to a certain regard. So that might be one of my favorite dessert dessert tacos. What about you? You got some favorite tacos?

Yeah, I'm actually more of a burrito guy, but my favorite taco is definitely a fish taco. I remember when I first moved down here, like I said, being from Washington state up there, when you think of fish, you think of seafood. You think of like clams and, you know, halibut and all that kind of stuff, which I don't like. So when I came down and my buddy's like, let's go get fish tacos, I was just like, wait, wait, wait. What? Fish tacos? That doesn't make any sense at all. How are you gonna have like this sea captain eat flavor with a Mexican flavor? That doesn't make any sense. So he went out, had him. It's obviously very different, I thought. And I just like instantly I was like, this is. This is the greatest thing in the world. Loved it right away. But yeah, ultimately I'm a burrito guy myself. I love a good California burrito.

Oh, from where?

What's.

Where is the California burrito for you?

Yeah, my go to is usually Rudy's, which is in the Costa, but there's a couple primos in the area. And I think primos are very unique in that they have the monster burrito. So you get their regular burrito and it's huge, but you can just pay an extra couple bucks and you get this monster burrito that lasts you like two days. I used to get that when I was building Plaso in common Grounds. I did this thing called cave week where I had cameras set up all throughout the office and I filmed myself 247 nonstop for a week. And I would sleep like an hour or two a night just hacking away and. And I would doordash and I would get primos and I would like slice it in half and put one in the fridge and then eat the other half because it was so huge.

I love it. That's awesome. I also was first exposed to like San Diego Mexican food through the California Burrito. Sombreros was my first. I went to it honestly because of the Blink 1A2 song. Okay. I was like, I got to go to Sombreros because his girlfriend buys it for him. And so it's still my nostalgic first love. But there aren't any sombreros in north county, so harder to find some burros, you know, California Burrito. But the Rudy's I think you're talking about is like El Camino and La Costa Boulevard. Right, that area.

Yep.

Across the street, Lola 55. Great taco spot. I don't know if you've been there yet.

Yeah, I haven't been there yet. I've been to the pizza one next to it. I've been to the Lofty. I've been to the Oxford, the Ox one. I can't remember what it's called. Been to a lot of those places, but I haven't. Haven't tried yet.

All right, then we're doing tacos there because they're like high end, high end, good tacos and bowls and I think burritos too. So sweet. We'll do a catch up there. Do you want to also talk through Opacity? Is that the right place and time to do it here too? You're new.

Yeah, sure, 100 do it.

But you just launched another new company because that's what you do.

Yeah, yeah, I just. Just left my role at clerk. I was head of design there and also head of commerce. Built a new product for them, a billing product. And that was really fun. And I had to leave because I had to make the universe right because the universe is currently wrong. And so, yeah, I left to start Opacity. And Opacity is my new company went full time basically this week is the first week I'm starting full time on. It was just kind of hacking on the side while I was at clerk. So very excited and jumping into it. So Opacity at its core is a way to visually design code components. And so the way that folks build stuff today is that there's like a place where they paint the pretty picture. Currently that's usually figma. And then there's some engineer that comes over and like visually looks at that back and forth and like codes it out manually and that creates two sources of truth, which is a huge bummer because if you update the code base, you got to update the designs if you want the team to be up to speed. And then if you update designs, you got to mainly update the code base and you got two sources of truth and it sucks. So Opacity's goal, one of the goals is to make that one source of truth where as you're visually editing on the canvas the your designs, it's actually creating NPM packages that are fully versioned and available for you to just do NPM install and then install those components in your code base. So there's no change for engineers. They work as they would. The big difference is now there's one source of truth which is really cool. So that's one of the aspects of opacity. The other one, the more major one I think is it's GitHub for design. There's designers currently, design teams currently have no way to like work together and collaborate and there's no real tools like engineers have with GitHub, like PR and diffs and rollbacks and that sort of thing. And so that's what opacity gives you as a designer and, and as a design team, the ability to do PRs and say, hey, here's my changes. Other people can look exactly, see what you've changed, approve that or not, and then it'll get pushed out as a new versioned package. So it hopefully will become like the, the, the source of record for all designs in the future and other companies can build on top of it. So that sort of thing. So.

Oh, super cool. Congrats, man.

Yeah, thanks.

Feel the need. Is this the first company you're building from scratch in the new gen AI world? And if so, is it totally different starting from scratch, you know, using the newest tools?

Yeah, 100%. I started using the gen stuff for code basically right when ChatGPT came out to help here and there, but it was never like mature enough. And then Claude came out and Claude had like a better interface where you get these artifacts, these actual HTML files and that was a little better. And then cursor came out and I tried that out when they launched and it just wasn't really that good. You could just go to Claude and type in thing and copy and paste, get the exact same results. So there was Like a few months break there where I didn't use cursor but then I went back and then they had like become a real product where like when you prompt something it'll like prompt back and forth with itself and you can see it talking to itself. And so they made it into a real product and it's awesome. And then I jumped on Claude code and now I barely use cursor and I just use Claude code and I used to, I use both of them but I was racking up like while working on opacity, like $50 a day. In Claude code usage though you only pay Claude like 100 bucks a month. There's these tools, you can see exactly how much you're actually charging them. So I had was working with a bunch of agents at the same time and man, it's super fun if, if you're an engineer, it just gives you like superpowers and I love it. So yes, first company building with Gen AI and it's been amazing.

And. And now you're like Dr. Octopus with eight limbs doing, you know, eight times the things. Yeah, yeah.

It totally enables that for, for real. If you don't know what you're doing and you're new to engineering, I feel like it would just be a massively frustrating experience because it one shots things so well and then you're like, now I want to customize it and that's when the pain starts. If you don't know what you're doing, that is just horrible pain. At clerk we would see people's prompts because they'd write into support and they would show us what they're working on and sometimes they would screen share and you'd watch and you'd see in the background of their windows, you'd see their prompts just swearing at just expletives everywhere. These tools get it working. I'm gonna kill you all this kind of stuff. So yeah, they a source of true pain. I think after the one shot, I.

Think the closest that the general public is feeling that is GPT trying to recreate an image once you saw it. Once you're like, do that one little tweak. Never again. Never again. You need opacity to have a source of record and be able to roll back on versions. Right. Which is sounds like, yeah, I take.

A ton of inspiration from mid journey midjourney. Kind of like reframed this idea of a finely tuned model. So all, all Ms. Are, you know, one giant model trained on the entire Internet. Right. And then you can finely Tune those to give you results specific to, you know, your use case. And you do that by feeding it data and training it on that data. And so Mid Journey does that and they call it styles. And so when you use Mid Journey, you can create a personal style and you'll see like two images and you pick your favorite one and then I'll show you two more. You pick your favorite one, you do that at least 200 times. And then you have a style and it has a little ID tag. And then whenever you want to generate an image, like say image of a tree, if you use that style tag, it's always going to be in that style. And you can purposely create other styles that you know, you always only select the anime image when it comes up and then that's going to be finely tuned on anime. So now it's going to look like anime. And so if you want to treat it look like anime, use that other style tag. Right. And so you have this predictability built in via these finely tuned models. And so Opacity is doing that same thing and but with your design system. So when you're designing stuff and building components in Opacity, I'm actually sending that information and creating a finely tuned model for your project. So when you say, hey, give me a card component or a form or whatever, it's going to look like your actual app, which is unique amongst prototype builders. I don't want Opacity to be a prototype builder really. I want to focus on the 1 to n and not the 0 to 1 and help folks like build businesses going beyond the prototype sort of thing.

I love it, man. You are a serial serial builder and I love that one. The tools have enabled you to 10x building on your own now and, and therefore the impact hopefully is there as well too, which I think it will be.

So yeah, and yeah, there's, there's still, there's still no shortcut to like turning a prototype into a company though. So it's definitely faster and better. But there's, yeah, there's still that threshold. 93 or. Yeah, 93% of all AI prototypes never make it to production. So there's still a lot of like.

A lot more to do. Yeah, I think some of that is on like the finance side actually, like the checkout, like go get someone to pay for your thing and get like validation. Right. Not just a project, but actually does someone find value in it. And the way to do that is with a checkout experience of some sort, maybe some sort of currency, some sort of currency exchange. Right. Of value for blank. And of course, we know It'll be for $20 a month as everything now in the new generative AI world.

So that has been christened from on high as the amount you shall charge if you're making an AI tool. Cool.

Yep. Well, Drew, it's. It's so, so good to see you back in the driver's seat of. Of building another company, but also sharing the. The love and education from the stage valleycon. So you've always been kind of a build in public. You know, you've got a great, I would say Twitter feed and following because you are so giving and sharing. And now to be back on stage in north county at valleycon is another way you're doing it too. So thanks, Ben. Thanks for.

Yeah, yeah. If you're listening, please come join us September 11th in Oceanside. And you go to valleycon.com to check that out. Awesome.

We'll see you all there. We'll see you there, Drew. And we'll see you for some tacos soon too.

See ya.

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