#226 From Lawn Mowing to 300,000 Weekly Users. Building GreenPal Without VC Money

I made a decision when I started this thing that I was gonna run it as long as I was having fun and enjoying doing it. And that's really where I'm at. Um, we have around 300,000 people that use it every week, um, for grass cutting service all over the country. Um, you know, seeing that number grow from 10 people, um, to now 300,000, that has been a lot of fun and I want to get to a million.

Welcome to the High Voltage Business Builders Podcast, a show where we interview high voltage entrepreneurs growing and scaling through e-commerce, real estate, and other wealth without Wall Street ventures, showing you the path to making your first or next Hey, Brian, welcome to the podcast, man.

So the question I have is, will AI help us all tremendously, or is it actually going to kill us all like the movie Terminator? What do you think?

Great question, Neil. Um, you know, I, I was skeptical a couple years ago, um, if it was overhyped, overblown, and then also had concerns, um, because sometimes it is a little scary, particularly ChatGPT's new product Pulse, which emails me every day or, or, or pings me every day about Things that it thinks that it could help me with. It was a little scary at first because I was like, man, that was actually really good. How did you know that?

Yeah.

But man, it's helping me level up and it's helping our team level up and it's, it's helping us close the gap with what we do at GreenPal to make it more like magic. And that's how we think about it. It's like, how do we use AI to, to create magic within what it is we do at GreenPal, which is like the Uber for lawn mowing services.

So yeah, and this is where it gets fascinating because you built your system around an AI and we're gonna definitely talk about that because you have an intellectual knowledge and property in your brain here that I want to squeeze a little bit out of today so people can listen to how you've deployed that into a revenue generating opportunity, which is such a change in the way we could do things. Now, I vibe coded a new website for our entire company in the last week with full components connected it and handed it to the developers and said, here, connect these points. And there's not been a time I've been able to literally just sit down, And engineer something out of my brain as fast as I could go via coding this website. And I did 2 of them at the same time, one for each platform. And I'm like, man, the stuff we're able to do, the force multiplication and replication is, it's just quite insane. I saw this thing and you mentioned GPT and it triggered what I was listening and you talked about the intelligence of the system and how crazy it can be. They rated it to what, 147 IQ recently on the 5.2 version? What happens when it becomes more intelligent than us, Brian?

You know, it's really good at taking Everything that's already out there and making sense of it and like making it digestible for you, the user. But I have, I have not found that it has innovated on anything and it hasn't created anything new with my, my use of it. So I think until they solve that problem, I think we're okay. I think it is like the world's best right-hand man or right-hand woman to like sit down with you and work on whatever it is you're working on and it can help you do things a lot quicker. And it can help you figure things out a lot quicker, but it is pulling from knowledge that's already on the open web, knowledge that's already out there.

Which is sort of scary when you think about it, especially if you've seen any of the sources of that data. It's using Reddit quite a bit. And I'm like, whew, boy, way to scrape the bottom of the barrel of knowledge there. I mean, there's some good stuff on Reddit, but you know, if you played around it at all, you feel like you need, it's like a dumpster fire on the internet of information. And I'm wondering, well, who's programming this? But It is getting smarter and it is learning. So it is a point that's, you know, well, I watched the thing with the, they call him the creator of AI.

I forget what his name is.

Very distinguished looking older gentleman, gray hair. I can't remember his name at the moment. It escaped me. Someone in the comments will remind me as they love to do. What he was saying about how we built this thing, not out of like we engineered it to do things, but we built it to a point where we just said, do all of these things and then learn about them. And then left it to its own devices. And I'm like, wow, that's kind of fascinating.

And that's a little scary.

A little scary. 'Cause what's it gonna learn? What's it gonna do? And you know, you've heard some of the fun things of, you know, it breaking out and trying to stop it from being, you know, itself from being shut down. And they, thankfully it was in an enclosed environment so it couldn't escape. But when these things are on the web, I often wonder what, what's gonna happen next, right? In, in terms of where we can go. And, and we should be using it to some degree. As you said, it's a right-hand person, a man or woman, you know, on the side going, hey, these are things I can think about. Here's the way you can adjust this. And I can ask it questions and say, what if I were to think about it this way or talk to it that way? And then it'll respond and give me ideas I hadn't quite thought or angles to come at it a little bit. And then it will, you know, go and code it, which is quite crazy to watch. Um, having started, you know, were you ever a coder? Like I had done a little coding back in the day, but are you really, have you done that professionally or personally?

Yeah, I, I, I, uh, when I started GreenPal, I had to become the world's most terrible front-end developer.

Sweet.

And so I knew enough to be dangerous and learned enough to be dangerous.

Yeah.

And I wish these tools had existed then. It would've made me a better engineer. It would've made me a better developer. I could've learned longer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's where it gets fun. Let's talk about that because what you've done and what I think hopefully people are listening to here is, as we create products of different kinds, physical or service-based or connection, like you said, the Uber of lawn care, which is a super cool idea. You've been able to move extremely quickly into that marketplace and prove it out of revenue, haven't you? Like just through the speed of execution. And that's where the solopreneur thing gets to be a lot of fun.

We built it off of its own revenue, so we didn't raise any capital to build GreenPal. It was kind of self-funded from day one. So that forces you to kind of like be efficient. It forces your thinking in terms of what products you're building. It forces you to have great customer service because you need customers. Um, that was like a, like a really, that was, that was, that was something that really focused on, that really helped us focus on only doing the things that we need to be doing and, and, and building the right things. And I'm lucky that we took that path.

Well, you sort of disrupted a bit of a service, right? The Uber of lawn care. I mean, you took an idea, you've had a ground-up understanding of how that business worked, and you said, hey, what if I could just do it faster and easier and connect more people? Was that kind of the concept I'm gathering in my own language? Or maybe you can do it in your own words.

How did that take shape?

Yeah, totally.

My first business was a landscaping business. So built a, uh, a lawn mowing company to around 150 people and over a 15-year period of time. And then that business was acquired by a national company that operates in the landscaping industry. Um, and then after that, I, I knew that somebody was going to build the Uber for lawn care because Uber was just getting traction. Um, and I knew somebody was going to build an app that where you push a button, somebody shows up and mows your yard. Um, so I had that piece of it, but I didn't have any of, um, the technical acumen. I had never built a website. I had never coded anything. I didn't even know what code was. And so I was starting from scratch for all that stuff. And so kind of just had to focus on a couple little things at a time. And I tried to hire a development shop to build the idea I had in my head, and that was a big flop. And so then I realized, okay, I'm going to have to learn how to build software. And my co-founder, the same. And the two of us went to YouTube University. And, and just poured over every video we could to try to learn how to code. And took, like, took 2 years, but we built the, the platform again. And, and that's the same kind of infrastructure we're using today with GreenPal, where you sign up for quotes, you hire somebody, you pay them, they come out and do a, do the job for you. And it all works a lot smoother than it does in, in the analog world.

Solves a problem really fast. And I think that's kind of the kicker here. with any product or service is to try to simplify complexity. I mean, a 150-person organization has some complexity to it, but you'd looked for a way to try to simplify a business problem that you had, right? Which was connecting people from lawns to the business to generate leads and generate more business and do it faster and easier. I mean, that's kind of a keep it simple, stupid thought process, but it's elegant and beautiful altogether.

Yeah.

It's helpful if you're solving your own problems.

Right.

You know, You're solving a problem that you experienced in the world, running a business or even as a consumer. It's like a lot of times new startups and a lot with a lot of new AI startups is they are a product in search of a problem. And if you can start from the problem and work backwards, and particularly like a hair on fire problem, like an intense problem, that can make your life as a founder a lot easier because at least you're solving something that somebody will pay for.

Yeah, that's true. And really, you want to get down to any kind of annual or monthly recurring revenue out of that opportunity if at all possible. It's very hard to make a lot of single sales and keep a business going. And that's kind of how I think a lot of the landscaping crews sort of work it today, is they just kind of go from, you know, new sale to new sale and lead gen to lead gen. And does this really help kind of solve that problem of putting them more on that recurring revenue path?

That's definitely what we're oriented around. It's, it's, you can't build a successful business without repeat customers. And so we focus on just the routine maintenance that, that every homeowner or, or home renter needs, whether they're going to do it themselves or, or pay somebody. You have vegetation outside that needs to be mowed every 7 days. And so GreenPal's job is to make that as easy as just pushing a button. And then on the other side, the consumer side, the vendor side, giving them like a business in a box, a place where they can just Plug into, do good work for their clients, and then everything else is handled for them. You know, as far as getting new customers, marketing automation, bill, you know, collecting on the work that they do, uh, giving them a place to market their business and accumulate reviews and ratings about their business, like kind of like a business in a box or, or even a coach as well to help them grow their business and get from one stage to the next. Ready to escape your grind? We help entrepreneurs build real wealth with private label brands. Visit voltagedm.com to start now.

So is it B2B or B2C, or is there 2 parts to that? I mean, if I'm a consumer who wants to get lawn care, can I go there? And if I'm a lawn care provider, can I go there and sign up as a service provider?

That's exactly right. It is the marketplace in that way where we connect buyers and sellers.

Okay.

So every marketplace, you know, has tools for sellers, has tools for consumers. That's how our marketplace is oriented. And like you think about like Airbnb, you have an— as a consumer, you have a beautiful interface to book Anything from a spare bedroom to a castle. And then, and then on the, on the, on the supplier side, they've got a big suite of tools for how to make revenue in terms of renting your, your real estate. GreenPal operates the same way. We, we really go deep into the supplier base trying to build tools to help them grow their business and operate their business easier. And then particularly now with AI, there's all kinds of fun, interesting things we can do a lot easier than we could before.

Yeah. Well, shout out to greenpal.com. If you are a consumer who needs somebody to mow your lawn, go check it out. If you're a service provider who wants to get more customers, go check it out. Links here on the, on the YouTube or is in the show notes as well, guys. greenpal.com. Um, so what were some of those problems that you solved during that process or still solving? And, and did that process of solving those problems remove you from the 150-person business? Is that, was that what ended up happening or are you still involved in that?

Yeah, no, that's, that business was acquired, um, by, um, the first company. And then after that, I wasn't positive I wanted to be a tech founder, but that was an idea that I had. And so it took about a year to kind of, you know, transition from being a blue-collar business owner to a tech founder. But after I, I went all in and, and made that commitment, I learned how to build software and built GreenPal in the, in kind of the knowledge I had of the landscaping business. And the goal was to make ordering a lawn mowing service as easy as just pushing a button. And that's still what we do now, 10 years later. It's, How do we make, make getting a, a lot of grass cutting services as cheap and easy as, as just ordering on DoorDash?

That's awesome. And how far do you think you can go with this? Like, what's your endgame? Are you gonna just, you know, keep cash flowing? You know, now you're a new tech founder. Congratulations for your new, your new title. Yeah. That comes with its own different levels of opportunity and troubles as well. Is it gonna, is it a cash flowing business for you until you just stop running out of ideas to innovate it? Or are you really looking for an exit at the end of this thing? Is that kind of the game plan?

You know, I made a decision when I started this thing that I was gonna run it as long as I was having fun and enjoying doing it. And that's really where I'm at. It's fun, it's interesting, it's challenging. We have around 300,000 people that use it every week for, for grass cutting service all over the country. That, you know, seeing that number grow from 10 people to now 300,000, that has been a lot of fun. And, and I want to get to a million. I feel like—

Okay.

We, we start getting into millions of people using the platform. We can get into the English language in terms of like, Just get a GreenPal to mow your grass, you know, get an Uber.

I like that adjective.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

We want to be a noun or a verb. And so that's the goal. That's the endgame.

That's cool. That's cool. So $300,000 going towards $1 million. How far, how fast, where do you think your hockey stick's going to be? Are you within—

I think we can get there in 3 to 5 years. We're growing at around 20% a year. You know, we, we, we didn't raise a bunch of external funding, so We have to grow organically, which is, which has been healthy for us. Um, we are always pushing the platform forward, um, but we don't ever really try to risk, um, making decisions that, that, that are, that are going to disrupt the magic that happens on the platform. Yeah.

Um, do you do a lot of, is a lot of affiliates? I mean, if people are happy with you, can they tell other people and make a little money on, on affiliating it together? Or is it just word of mouth? Or are you doing, you know, like organic affiliate marketing, paid traffic marketing? How are, how are you really seeing the growth coming?

The majority of people that discover GreenPal just come through just organic search. So anything, you know, like Google or now ChatGPT, you, you say, hey, I need a lawn mowing service nearby me, nationwide. GreenPal usually comes up as one of the options to consider.

Very cool.

Very cool. And you'll be able to track a lot of that. So really you, you have a pretty good organic standing going for you now.

And it took a long time to, to build that following.

I bet it did, dude. Well, you said 10 years, so you've probably been at it since the systems came online, indexed you, and, and are now being picked up by the engines, whereas somebody Building new, maybe today from this thought process, would have to, you know, go out there and get their systems figured out and found.

It takes a while to get that flywheel running, but once you get it going, you start to receive dividends off the investments you made years ago. And so it's one of those things you kind of like have to bet your company on if you want to build SEO as a channel or organic inbound traffic as a channel. But for me, I think it's one of the healthiest ways you can build a business.

Yeah.

Ultimately you want that organic, that brand power, you want that growth. It's harder to get that going when maybe, you know, you're a founder in the first year or so getting off the ground. Did you, you kept mowing lawns and running and, and, and had that funding or had some way to keep yourself going and plow it all back in year 1? Or did you, like, what was your initial startup that first, you know, 2, 2 years or so that are so difficult, especially in the startup phase?

That's a great question because, uh, yeah, it was tough. Um, so I had built and sold my, my, my first company. And so I was in a position where personally, I didn't have to depend on a paycheck from, from my company. And, and so I didn't take a salary for like 5 years. My 2 co-founders, they still worked their full-time jobs. And so they were working nights and weekends on the project. And it was probably 3 years before they could quit their job and we could, we could afford to pay them a salary. So it was very humble in the early days and it was very scrappy. Um, but, but Mark Cuban's got a great quote. He says, the least amount of money you can live on, the greater your options in business. And that's how it was for us. We, it was, it was like rice and beans budget and every dime we could get our hands on, we plowed back into the business.

Yeah, I think a lot of us have that story. Mine was the same in the first 5 years. You know, things didn't go as anticipated, took a little bit longer than expected, had to redevelop, you know, personal and business and professional goals to kind of get that, you know, engine. You said flywheel, great word, moving in the economics of figuring out the business before it all really started to take off. And I think that that is a true understanding of business building, even with AI today, because you may have a really great idea, but the economic flywheel has to get moving. And it might take you a week to vibe code something you think you could sell to the world for a billion-dollar company, but you still have to make— get it out there and you have to market it. You have to get the economics of it going and start making money and then keep yourself going in the timeframe that it takes to go. And I always tell everybody, and you probably agree, because from what you said just a second ago, if you can plow all profits back into the business year 1, even year 2, That's really what it's going to take for this to turn into a long-term sustainable opportunity that could create generational wealth, freedoms, business, things you actually want. And maybe you'll get a little lucky in that period. I mean, business is luck, right? I mean, you had some luck along the way, didn't you?

Absolutely. I was a lot of luck in my first business and my second business. I was lucky in my first business just growing up in Nashville, Tennessee, where there was all sorts of economic activity happening around my little business gave me an opportunity to build and sell that company. And so that was lucky. And then building GreenPal, we had a lot of luck in terms of either— we didn't raise funding. That was a lucky thing. There was 3 other companies at the time that were doing a similar thing that raised anywhere from $10 to $50, $100 million, and they're no longer in business because they kind of drove off the cliff and didn't even leave skid marks. And so we were very lucky. And did work really hard, kind of created some of our own luck along the way. I think if you want to start your own business, whether it's a small coffee shop or it's the next big AI tool, you gotta really be willing to go all in, in every aspect of your life to bring that thing to life.

Yeah, it's truly gonna be a purpose-driven value. I mean, you have to see it through things people don't see. You have to have blind optimism. In a lot of ways I call it, right? And you just have to be willing to let it go as long as it's going to go until it reaches some point of success. The challenge everybody has, of course, is the sunk cost fallacy. How far do I push that before I, before I, you know, realize I've spent all the time, energy, money, and it's not working? When do I give up?

I think it's a fine line between like having a big goal or a dream and then also delusion. So, so for us, I was, I was really scared of that too because I didn't, I didn't want to burn up all of my capital from the first company and I didn't want to waste a decade of my life. And so what I did to try to hold us accountable was we focused on just one number, the number of transactions per week. And I knew that was important because it was like an indicator of the life, of the livelihood of the business and if it was doing anything. And so that number started off as 10 transactions a week. I just wanted—

Yeah.

We get 10, we get 10 credit cards.

Just 10.

10. If I can't get 10—

Little goals.

For us to do this. Right. That took like a, that took like 6 months and we got 10. And then, okay, now we gotta get 100. That took like another 2 years. And, uh, now that number's 300,000. And so, but you just focus on one number.

That's great.

And move that number. Then you know it's worth, it's worth dedicating your life to.

Tenacity and perseverance. Blind optimism. And, you know, that's why you are a high voltage business builder. Dude, I'm so grateful that you came on the show today. Is there anything we didn't talk about you wanna cover?

Well, I, I appreciate you having me on, Neil. I will tell you that a lot of times as a founder, you can think, okay, well, I missed it. Uh, you know, I missed, uh, whatever. Uh, I missed crypto or the gig economy or cloud or whatever. And then, and now with AI, you can think, okay, that's 3 years old. I missed it. You, it, the thing is, it's still day one. You did not miss it. Yeah, we are in a cycle of at least 20 or 30 or 40 years of, of change in productivity. It's so like, get started now because you didn't miss it. There, there's more opportunities to come.

Yeah, great and wise words from a man who's felt it on both sides of the fence. So I appreciate you coming on, brother, sharing a good word today. Guys, if you're a provider or if you're a customer going to look for some lawn care, go check it out. It's pretty cool. The Uber of grass. Check it from the man who is not only mowing grass, but kicking ass. Look at that. So you guys, thanks for joining me on the call, brother.

Thanks, Neil. I appreciate it.

All right, guys, like, comment, and subscribe as always. Snide remarks, anything to help push out the algo. Share this with somebody who might need some lawn care in your area. I guarantee there's somebody that needs it. Go to greenpal.com. Check it out. Help this guy get to his next 100,000 people. I bet we can help him out. Take care, guys.

Ask you this. If you're serious about building an e-commerce business starting on Amazon FBA, what if myself and my team worked with you one-on-one to execute the steps outlined in the podcast while helping you discover what the heck to sell, how to make sure it's profitable, and how to successfully launch a brand. Plus, how to do it under a consulting plus performance-driven model where I put a $10,000 skin-in-the-game guarantee for those that show up and are serious about building a real business done with us. If yes, text keyword profit to +1-417-413-4209. That's 1-417-413-4209. And I will personally respond with a few simple questions. If you're not in the US or Canada, please visit voltage dm dot com. That's voltage dm dot com. Click Get Started and book a no-pressure discovery call with me or a member of my team to learn more about the Business Builders one-on-one coaching and mentoring for CEOs, entrepreneurs, and those looking to build an empire or retire using the power of e-commerce. Once again, thank you for listening, and be sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the High Voltage Business Builders podcast.