Cultivating Success: E-Commerce Insights with Andrew Maffettone

If you're not focusing on like building that community and getting organic traffic to your site and selling and improving the overall experience on your website, you're probably a good 3 to 5 years out from having a lot of trouble.

Welcome to the High Voltage Business Builders Podcast, a show where we interview high voltage entrepreneurs growing and scaling through e-commerce, real estate, and other wealth without Wall Street ventures, showing you the path to making your first or next million.

All right, guys. Welcome back to the High Voltage Business Builders Podcast. As always, like, share, comment, engage, leave us some help. Help us beat big tech. I don't care if you tell us to go flip a lid, screw off, or whatever in the comments.

It doesn't matter.

It's only going to create engagement. So please help us out so my guest today can get some visibility. If you guys are ready to dive into a world where data-driven analysis meets creative marketing brilliance, and you ever wonder how 15 years of e-commerce experience could revolutionize your brand, meet Andrew. All right. We're going to talk today about the strategy and the genius behind his brand, How he's been lifting up brands to grow them into omnichannel, multichannel strategies. And we're going to call this the Math Method today. And we're going to dig in today with his experience and figure out where we go from here. Thanks, dude.

Thank you. Can I trademark that? Math Method? I don't need it.

You go, you go, brother. Math Method. Get it. You can put my name on it if it ever goes out there.

Credit sponsored by.

As long as we're not sponsored by Pfizer, we're good to go.

All right.

So where are you? Where are you in the world today, my man?

And how are you doing? I am in West Chester, Pennsylvania. I'm outside of Philadelphia and I'm doing just fine.

How you doing, Neil?

I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day, spring here. I don't know if you've hit spring in your part of the world yet, but out here things are blooming and green and it's just incredible. We're getting there.

Baby steps. You're getting there.

Well, that's good. So 2024, what's on your mind today? Where are brands going? Where are the positives and negatives? What are you bullish on? What are you holding back on?

Man, where do I start with that? 2024, let's see, with a lot of brands, what I'm seeing right now is actually, especially in like the past couple months, I've noticed like a real clear Like line in the sand of the brands that are building like a community and are focusing on kind of more organic aspects to get people very interested in their own brand versus the other like kind of me too products. Amazon created this like ecosystem of if you can find a manufacturer to make you something, even if there's 1,000 of them out there, I'm gonna do it too. And so like the countless coffee brands that are all the same thing, the countless, like, we all have bathroom mirrors, like just stuff like that where it's like, come on. So like no one's, I'm worried that no one's really innovating like they used to. Then you look at the other side, you have the tech space and AI is becoming just annoying where it's like everything's AI. Everyone says that it has AI and it just doesn't. It's just like an if-then statement and they think it's awesome. And so it's, I don't know, maybe this will turn into just me venting about the frustrations of the industry. No, I was gonna say, you're, you're on, you're, you're speaking my jam, man.

Um, we, we have always talked about innovation. If you've listened to my podcast, we always talk about invention is one thing and not everybody can be an inventor, but everybody can innovate.

Mm-hmm.

Just think it through. If you give it some time, if you build some uniqueness into the product and the brand, if you can see it eventually getting to possibly a utility or design patent, you're now moving yourself away from the market. Your retail price points can go up. Your brand can create value, emotional connectivity, the solutions behind it. Stop me if you've heard this before. And like you said, build a tribe. Really building a tribe around your brand is important these days.

Yeah, exactly. And a lot of what, like, I preach the organic side a lot more than most. Um, a lot of agencies are very focused on the paid ad side. And we do, um, it's, it is a majority of our business, but it's not what I've, I talk about a lot. And the main reason I see is like CPC's average increasing between Last I looked, it was between like 5 and 7% every year. And so the average CPC on Google alone, just for consumer goods, will surpass $5 in like, I think it was like 3 years from now. So depending, and with the average order value of consumer goods being between like that $35 to $40 range, you have so many brands that don't focus on CRO. So consistently improving and A/B testing their websites. You have brands that don't even acknowledge SEO exists. So they're just constantly fighting the battle with CPCs. And we're probably, I think, 3 to 5 years out from all of a sudden a lot of people being able to not afford to run ads because of, it just doesn't line up. The, your conversion rate's never gonna be like amazing where it's like 100% of people buy and costs are gonna keep going up. So your customer acquisition costs are gonna go up. So if you're not focusing on like building that community and getting organic traffic to your site and selling and improving the overall, uh, experience on your website, you're probably a good 3 to 5 years out from having a lot of trouble. So everyone's like, oh, AI's this, AI that, let's focus on this. And they're all like, how do I use this to drive more traffic to my site?

And blah, blah, blah.

Like, you're not squeezing out every inch of juice out of your apple that you've got. That is not, that's not an analogy. I made it up. It's like, I don't know what I was doing there.

You're sure you can't—

I don't know what I was doing there. But it's, it just ma— it amazes me. So no one focuses on the asset that is their website. They focus so much on getting my product in front of people that they just, they're like, why aren't I converting? Like, 'cause you did nothing about it to make someone convert. And because it's so crowded now, Yeah. the average consumer is overwhelmed with options. As I said, there's a ton of me-too products out there now. So unless you're doing something to stand out and having an amazing experience every time someone purchases something, You will not survive probably the next 5 years.

Yeah. I was talking with a guy earlier this morning. We were going over a little bit about the being bullish on the TikTok side, the brand discoverability side. What are you seeing over there? I mean, it's a big catchphrase right now, but, um, and, and there's me too products are kicking this because we've always talked about don't do me too products on Amazon. We've been saying this for years and years and years, like a freaking broken record. Don't do me too products anymore. You shouldn't have been doing this. This is 2014. However, What are we seeing on TikTok right now? It's on YouTube. Product from 2014, Amazon.

Things I didn't even know about from 10 years ago.

Right? And I'm like, holy crap, man. That's like a, it's a, it's an amazing opportunity if you take advantage of it. If you guys are thinking about this as a brand, you're on Amazon and you want to open TikTok shop, we're definitely doing that right now because it's just stupid not to get brand discoverability and watch it back over to TikTok. What are you seeing from your perspective on all that? Are you positive? Are you negative on it?

Do you feel—

Same, uh, same thing. Honestly, like it's, I, it's very impressive. Some people do really well with it. There's certain products that do really well on TikTok. There's others that don't at all.

Yeah.

The audience is not nearly as young as it, everyone assumes it was, which it was during COVID maybe, but now we're 5 years into it. It's doing better. There's theories on whether it'll stick around and all that fun stuff, but for now it's here. So let's deal with it. I think it, it comes down to It, it kind of stems into other areas of like, you really need to know your customer, obviously, which is sad that I even have to say that, but you really need to know your customer. It's not sad.

You just gotta keep saying it. You gotta know your customer.

You really need to know your customer, but you also need to know the platform that you're speaking to them on because your customer, your ideal customer is very different when they're on Facebook or when they're on Instagram or if they're on Amazon or if they're Google searching or if Like, so yeah, so it's when you're on TikTok, if what you do and the words that you use on your Google search ads are not going to be what works on TikTok. So it's very much like everyone's in a different mood when they're shopping and your cons— your customer's going to be in a different mood depending on the platform they're on. So TikTok, it's, uh, you're there to entertain, so you've gotta find a really cool way to make your product fun and entertaining and make it more about the entertainment and less about the sale. And then the sales will come second. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's brand differentiation. Uh, really at the end of the day is what we're talking about. Getting your brand out of position so it doesn't be, doesn't get seen like all the rest of the people.

Yep.

Has some differentiation in the products and of course builds that tribe and emotional connectivity to your client. And you're right, there's just so many people who don't take the time to discover who it is they're actually selling to. We make a concerted effort. With our clients to go through and understand and talk about the avatar, the person, the profile, who are they doing? What are they buying? Why are they after it? We, we do it specifically and tell me if you do the same thing, because we're, when we're launching on Amazon and incubating a new brand, we want to go after that $1,000 a year Prime membership customer. We want to know that we can sell them $1,000 worth of products in 12 months. And I don't know that a lot of people think about it.

Yeah, exactly. We do a very similar approach because it's, it is dealing with brand owners all day long. If they're like, hey, I spoke to a buddy of mine who's, uh, crushing it on Walmart. Let's just throw up the product on there and start making sales. And then they're like, well, why aren't we making sales? Because you did not put any thought into this. You just got onto this platform and wanted to hit the ground running.

Yeah, I don't care.

And that's just not how it works. You really poorly done Amazon listings, poorly done social media approaches. Now, obviously with Google's recent core algorithm update as of 3 weeks ago from this recording, that's obviously took a big hit on poorly done article creation. So. It's really a matter of like all of these, all of these brands that are constantly trying to game the system and like find these neat little hacks or these kind of gray hat areas. And then it comes back and ends up biting them in the ass several years down the road when these algorithms catch up to 'em. So it's like those quick wins, they do catch up, are pointless.

Always.

The best brands out there, the biggest ones you can think of, your Fortune 500 brands plus, none of them cheated the system. They followed everything to a T. They did it how they were supposed to do it. Some of them, obviously they got so big that they don't need to have these big fancy, like Amazon listings and stuff anymore. Like we, we did a big stint with Crayola for a while and like they, their listings were hideous, but they're Crayola, so who cares?

Crayola.

So, but because they followed the rules prior that they don't have to worry about some of the rules anymore.

Right.

So, um, yeah, but you're right. The bar is low. We've talked about this many times. The bar is so low that you just, you could just crawl over it if you just do it the right way. And I think there's a lot of desperation and concern and there's market, there's personal, there's stress, there's the finances, there's the what if. Um, people are clinging to their 9 to 5s. They're just like, I don't know. And it's kind of like, this is your opportunity to excel is not very high anymore. You just have to do the right steps from the very beginning and do what others are not willing to do. Um, and, and that's your opportunity now. I, I hate to say it that way cuz it sounds like I'm talking down to the market. Which I'm not really trying to do, but it's kind of like I get on these notices and stuff and they're like, hey, we're having this next growth webinar. And I'm like, no, no, you're not. No, you're not. Like, I have no interest in participating in that. You know what I'm saying?

If I get invited to one more of those or someone, if I, if someone tells me one more time that they are a guru at something, I might just resign and be like, I'm done. I'm out. I can't do this anymore.

Now, is it the G-U-R-U or the G-O-O-R-O-O? 'Cause that really does make a difference. I mean, there's, there's no such thing.

G-O-O-R-O-O. I have not seen that one.

Really? The, the goo ring. That sounds gross. You gotta hold that one up. Yeah, right. You can see, that's what you do when you squeeze a guru. You get the goo ring. Uh, it is so easy though for people to come out and be experts in this nowadays. And then, I mean, you get 1,000 people, you get a blue check mark, and all of a sudden you have wisdom. And now you can just pay for Uh, in this, now you could just pay for the checkmark. Pro tip. Then you can become an expert in anything, right? But you've been in this for a long time, 15+ years. I mean, that's the, you're an old goat in the hilltop here because not many people have had this long of experience, this much exposure to the market. What have you been seeing? What are you watching? And if I ask you to open that crystal ball based on that experience and say, what does the next year look like in your business and your goals? What would you, what would you say? What would you—

Um, gee, in my business or in the industry?

Or both?

Both.

Both.

In my business, we are really leaning a lot more into the organic side, kind of like what I was complaining about that I said we talk about all the time. Um, getting real, real pushing on the CRO side and the SEO side, mainly because not only do we do it for ourselves, like, um, I try to always do the, um, practice what you preach aspect. Like we're always A/B testing on our stuff on our site and, uh, we're an agency. A/B testing things on my site does very little, but I want to practice what I preach and go through the methods. And I know that cost per click are just constantly rising. And even though paid ads is a majority of what we do, if I can get our clients to also focus on how we can keep your CPAs lower and your customer acquisition costs lower and increase your average order value over time, your paid ads are only going to improve. So marketing is becoming more and more just gray areas because all the different strategies overlap with each other. And it's the exact same thing for brands. The customer journey is so fluid now. I've, we actually did, we did this last year, we did for several clients where we did this test where we increased their social media advertising by 10% and all their ads were going directly to their website. And when we looked at their website results, they saw about a 6 to 7% similar increase in revenue, but their Amazon saw like a 4 to 5% increase in revenue. So what we realized was so many people are coming to the website and then going to Amazon.

Yeah.

And so we, we've, we partnered up with Amazon's new, their new feature, that Buy with Prime feature. So like we're trying to keep people on the site so that we can bring in, keep the data and all that fun stuff. But I think as time goes on as well, what I'm starting to see is more and more of these marketplaces are coming out. So Amazon being like the Walmart of the days from back when it was just brick and mortar. And then you've got like Chewy that just did pet, and then you had Wayfair that like just did home goods. And like, so I'm starting to see more and more of these things happen. And I think what's gonna happen is, you remember like probably was it like 10 years ago, I would say all of a sudden over the course of a couple years, everyone was like, stop shopping at these big box stores, shop mom and pop. And like little mom and pops started. Yeah. They all started popping up and people became loyal to certain ones, even though stuff was a little bit more expensive. They wanted to support them. It's happening on the internet. You're seeing more and more people.

You're right.

Who are going to websites because they're supplying a great experience outside of dealing with Amazon. Some people don't like the ethics of Amazon or Walmart, so they don't shop there anymore. These like niche marketplaces are starting to pop up. So like if you're really into something now, not only is all of your product opportunities there, but your community is there and they're developing that community. So it's kind of like we're seeing these little niche marketplaces pop up and these really standout D2C sellers that it's starting to kind of take away from these marketplaces and That's, I mean, in my opinion, I don't really know how accurate this is, but that's probably why we're starting to see Amazon constantly increasing their costs on sellers. That's causing them to either lose margin and lose their business or have to increase their prices, which means we're just losing to basically every Chinese seller that comes over here. So it's becoming this like cyclical pain for anyone who's on Amazon who's just making like a dollar on Products that have an average order value of like $30. It's nuts.

It's not gonna work for that. We were going on earlier, anything less than $30 nowadays is pretty much not gonna work for the, the average seller. And it wasn't about 3 years ago, just most people weren't pivoting and doing what is necessary to elevate their brands. And I talk to brand owners all the time whose businesses are 3 and 4 or 5 years old, and they're suffering greatly right now and they can't figure out what's going on. And they just, you look at their product and their SKU line and you find out very quickly they are, have taken advantage of that ride. But now that the fees and structures have changed and they didn't pivot and they didn't move into additional tiers. into higher value brand, uh, tiers and into, um, more solution-based products at higher to $50 and $150 price point, they, they're going to suffer and they can't move fast enough to get out of the way. So the fees are killing them. And we were joking earlier that it's another version of the bloodbath to borrow more keywords for our podcast today is that they're just seeing it in the forums and online and X are just having a horrible time of it right now. And of course they blame Amazon and don't take a lot of responsibility for the fact that as business owners, they didn't pivot. They didn't change. They didn't move with the market. They weren't willing to listen. Maybe they just squeezed all the profits and enjoyed it while it lasted. But right now, if you're making sub $10, if you're making $5, you are going to be out of business this year if you can't pivot. Would you agree?

Absolutely. We, I would say 9, I think I can think of one off the top of my head right now, but almost every single one of our clients with the exclusion of one I'm thinking of are either on multiple platforms and have their own website or are on Amazon. And scaling up as much as they can right now to afford to start to diversify. If someone comes to us and they're like, no, we just wanna pour gas on Amazon, I don't care how much you're doing on Amazon, you're not a fit because I don't see that just being a viable approach and just solely relying on Amazon. You also have no control over your brand. You can't really build a brand on Amazon. They're doing better with giving options for their storefronts and things like that, but it's still not enough to build that brand. And because data, because Amazon holds their data so closely, I don't see how it's going to be possible for anyone to build a brand because retention on Amazon is basically not really a thing unless you keep them coming back.

But subscribe and save is closer, that kind of stuff. Obviously building a brand residual on your, uh, search engine and organic. And I would argue, and no, no disrespect to what you're saying, I actually agree. I would argue that you can start and build that brand recognition, but you must move it off the channel. Yeah. Something we were talking about, or you must move it into another platform, another store, QVC, a website, TikTok, somewhere else. You must omnichannel it once you discover that it's working. You're also, as you said earlier, and I know this firsthand, you're going to lose a lot of market share from brands that are coming back onto Amazon through DTC methods and TikTok and stuff and looking for your brand and product and can't find it. And so they're buying somebody else's.

Yeah.

You could see $50K to $100K a month in spend on the DTC world and lose 18% of that to Amazon. And you already paid for that traffic. So. You've got to go now and diversify into the multiple marketplaces. Strong and obviously good strategy because as you said, very astutely, you can't put everything on every channel. You have to look at the diversity of your brand and product types, the psychology of the buyer on the additional channels, and then match up product type with psychology of buyer on the other channels. You can't just take one product necessarily and expect it's going to run at the same pace on every channel.

Yeah, I think I, I completely agree. I mean, I think that Amazon is an amazing customer acquisition channel to introduce the brand to people, or if you're definitely just starting off, it's a great place to prove the viability of the product. And if you're almost—

it's market—

yeah, it's like market testing. It's a really inexpensive way to test out if people are going to like your product. But if you are trying to, if you're trying to build a brand and you're trying to build a serious business that you are looking to have a real nice exit from one day, you have to diversify. 100%.

Now, 100%.

There are a lot of Amazon sellers that I respect that are just doing it as like a second side gig and just getting some cash out of it. And great, that's totally fine. But that's just not what I would do.

That's a side hustle and hobby business. That's not the game we play, right? The game we play is omnichannel. And as I've mentioned before, people have heard me say we're acquiring, we're exiting these brands. And so if you don't have an omnichannel, I'm not buying Amazon only. Yeah.

You have no asset.

Unless it's like sub-low and you're going to seller finance the crap out of it for me. Then I'll maybe consider it because then I'm going to take the rest of the capital and I'm going to go push it on each channel.

Yep.

Because that's just not, you just watch the blowup of the marketplaces and the way people are looking at it now. And it's like, it's a buyer's market. You can't come in as a seller anymore and say, well, this is a 4x Amberline brand. I'm going to say, no, no, it's not. Where's your other channels? If you have 5%, what's your number? Mine's about 5% of other channels open and established, at least even if they're not currently growing at the You know, rate necessarily they could, et cetera. Where, where's your mind about 5% omnichannels? If it shows that, then I'm gonna look at that and say, okay, there's upside potential. There's opportunity. There's a proven start in that market. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess if I had to put a percentage on it, that kind of lines up. I mean, from our end as a, excuse me, as like a marketing agency, it's, it's really more of like a where they want to go. In your case, obviously being a little different, but from like the 5% aligns. I like that. I think that really what we try to focus on, especially if you're looking to exit one day, which is pretty much where everyone wants to end up. Most of the time you have to build an asset outside of just your physical assets, like your inventory. Like there's a ton of businesses out there that are more interested in buying you.

Great.

If you're profitable, awesome. That's how we're probably gonna work on evaluating you. But what if your email list is massive? What if the amount of traffic coming to your website is huge? What if you've got some ridiculous social media following that's really engaged, or you've got a big list of influencers that love working with you? All of a sudden those assets become very valuable for a company that might even sell something similar. As long as they have a relatively similar customer base, you are now that much more valuable to them. If you are just on Amazon, it really is.

If you got a business so well, dude, if you got a business at a, a million and a half SDE and I've got another one on deck at 850 and the 850 has 800,000 emails and the 1.5 million doesn't have any emails, guess what I'm gonna look at? Exactly. Right. I'm going to look at the $850,000 and be like, wow, you got an asset sitting there for $50,000. And I'm actually paraphrasing deals we're looking at right now and looking at the viability. Yeah, the extra profit is great, but that extra $200,000 or $300,000 in SDE with no email versus email and— oh my gosh. Yeah, absolutely. All day long and twice on Sunday.

I agree.

Where are you taking your business in this year? Like, what are you most interested to be doing in Having the most fun and seeing the most results from?

Uh, so far, even just in Q1, our, the CRO side's getting really interesting. We've been doing more and more of it. Uh, we've partnered up with VWO. In fact, we have an event with them and with, and with Buy with Prime in a few weeks. And basically like we did, man, we did something. I just put the case study up like a week ago and I can't remember it. We did an CRO audit for a client of ours, ran a handful of tests and then just implemented everything. And it was just a quick, like 30-day sprint. It wasn't like a big campaign. It was just like a, let's do some tests. And their, their conversion rate, like it was like 2.5x what it was originally. And that was one of those like, look, if I could do that for everyone, I would be a very, very wealthy guy.

So there's a reason it's a case study. Let's be honest.

Yeah. But it was still like, okay, like I can, I'm starting to really see the benefits there. And then ignoring the conversion rate side. They also saw, I think it was like a 1.5x increase on their AOV. So that's where I'm like, sometimes you can only get your conversion rate so far. Once you start clearing like 6, 7%, like you're in an awesome space. Most people can't even do that. So then the next thing—

And CRO, for those who don't know, is CRO defined?

Conversion rate optimization. So A/B testing things on your website. So usually with that, you're looking at your micro conversions, right? So everyone thinks like, oh, I want to improve the overall conversion rate on my website. Like, cool. Who doesn't? Baby steps. If they get to your homepage, the purpose of your homepage is to get them off your homepage. You want to get them to either a collection page or a PDP. And as soon as they get to your PDP, your next job is to just get them to the cart, then from cart to checkout, then from checkout to close. So focusing on those micro conversions along the way and A/B testing different placements of things, that's the ideal way to focus on your conversion rate. Then you look at your upsells. Your other opportunities. So now once you've kind of like gotten your conversion rate to a much better spot, how can I get them to buy more things? What's my average, uh, amount of items per order? How frequently are they coming back? Do I have like on-website retention things in place? Like all of those elements. It's just because we've been so focused on paid media for so long, it's been really nice to see that we can tell our paid media team, hey, we're working on making the website perform that much better because it's going to help your paid ads because too many times.

Yeah.

You work with agencies that just do one thing, which is awesome. And I, I respect the specialty approach, but marketing is so gray. There's so many areas that overlap that like specifically paid ads guys, they'll drive traffic to a website all day long and be like, I don't know why it doesn't convert. Like I can tell you because their site's running really slow.

Like it's obvious. Or they do the, the worst case. They take on a site they shouldn't have in the first place and they blame it on the, on the site. Oh, well, our traffic is good and you're fucked up.

Exactly. They point to click-through rate and they're like, oh, we're hitting the right audience, but they're not converting. You've gotta look at your website. But like in our position, we go, you have a high click-through rate, you're hitting the right audience, but we're having an issue when they get to your site. Let's help you fix your site instead of just being like, oh, sorry.

Smart. Taking more out of existing traffic.

Exactly.

Yeah, that's great. It's a great resource. That's a, a much needed tool. So for our, uh, kind of couple last couple questions here, um, if you had somebody that you would want to interview or speak to and, and you could sit down and have lunch with them, who would it be?

Mike Tomlin, the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'm a, I am a Steelers fan, so obviously that makes me biased.

Yeah.

But I've, so I, I'm just very aware of the horrible teams he's had several times and still has winning seasons. So there's something with his leadership and something with the way that he runs, his mind just works that I would love to just pick his brain and just see how he's able to constantly Bring those people together. I mean, you see guys like Antonio Brown come out of the Pittsburgh Steelers and while he was there, he was not that crazy. So now it's kind of like, okay, Tomlin, how did you keep him like actually as a functional player for you during those last couple years? So I would just love to pick that guy's brain.

Leadership.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

So far we've had like Elon Musk. Yeah. They're calling somebody Joe Rogan. There's was somebody said Andre 3000. That was an awesome one. I didn't hear that one coming. Great flute album. Caught me off guard. Tom, leadership, quality, creativity, ingenuity, and innovation. These are kind of the themes of the, of the guest spot. Where, where can people figure out how to connect with you and decide whether or not any traffic or website or DTC optimizations are something they need? Where can they connect?

Dealer's choice. I'm, uh, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, all that fun stuff at Andrew Maff. Or I also have a website. Otherwise, anything at Blue Tusker is also all over the place. Or you just email me at, it's, uh, andrew@bluetusker.com.

And soon to be themathmethod.com.

TheMathMethod.com. Yeah, I've already, I got the domain while we were on this podcast.

You better have, because I'm going to register right after this. I could turn around and sell it back to you. Oh, entrepreneurialism. You gotta love it, right? That's my, people are like, how do you monetize your podcast?

Well, I just steal from the people that's on it.

I just take their IP and register it when I'm live on the podcast and then sell it back to them afterwards. Dude, this has been a fun interview. You've, you've been a good guest. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Let me ask you this. If you're serious about building an e-commerce business starting on Amazon FBA, what if myself and my team worked with you one-on-one to execute the steps outlined in the podcast while helping you discover what the heck to sell, how to make sure it's profitable, and how to successfully launch a brand, plus how to do it under a consulting plus performance-driven model where I put a $10,000 skin-in-the-game guarantee For those that show up and are serious about building a real business done with us. If yes, text keyword profit to +1-417-413-4209. That's 1-417-413-4209. And I will personally respond with a few simple questions. If you're not in the US or Canada, please visit voltage dm dot com. That's voltage dm dot com. Click get started and book a no-pressure discovery call with me. Or a member of my team to learn more about the Business Builders one-on-one coaching and mentoring for CEOs, entrepreneurs, and those looking to build an empire or retire using the power of e-commerce. Once again, thank you for listening, and be sure to tune in next week for a brand new episode of the High Voltage Business Builders Podcast.