From Broke to $50,000 a Month: The Vending Machine Side Hustle

I went down this path and I was like, oh my gosh, there's so many options to really kind of meet people in the middle with this and actually have an impact on society. On top of, I come back to what you have on your website. Like the great thing about passive income is living your life on your own terms.

Welcome to the High Voltage Business Builders Podcast, a show where we interview high voltage entrepreneurs growing and scaling through e-commerce, real estate, and other wealth without Wall Street ventures, showing you the path to making your first or next million. We're going to be talking about something unique today on the podcast.

I thought it'd be fun to bring Mike in here because he's an expert in this area. We're going to be talking about vending and passive income through the creation of passive and wealth building and income building and using vending machines. Now, the stigmata that I put on it initially, which I think a lot of people did, and we're going to kind of break that down today, or maybe do, maybe you're not like me, but you think vending machines, you automatically think all of the basic fast food, sugar food, candies and drinks and soda pops and all that stuff in a vending machine. But Michael's got a whole nother take. on this today. And is it Mike or Michael? How do you prefer I call you today?

Mike works.

Mike it is. Okay. So we'll go with Mike. Thank you for that. So Mike's going to unpack that today. We're going to talk about it. So in the comments, as always, help me beat big tech, like, comment, put something snide in there. I don't care. Just engage YouTube, Instagram, social media. Doesn't matter. Help us beat big tech by getting this message out there today. All right. So literally we're talking about vending machines, the physical machines that end up in different locations.

Yeah, absolutely.

So tell me what that means. So if somebody really is stuck in the idea that this is all about fast food, tell me what else there is.

Yeah, so it's kind of funny actually. I was flying yesterday and I went through the Philly airport and there was an unattended micro market store where you literally walk in, you put your credit card reader through, you grab a few items, there's cameras and it charges you. So that is, and that in an essence, that's vending machines, unattended retail. So same kind of concept. But yeah, I actually got into it right before COVID mainly because I was traveling a lot for my day job. And I saw all these unhealthy items and my background's in human performance and longevity. So I went down this whole path of, well, we have an obesity issue. High school kids don't play sports anymore because they're on video games and our military is a shortage of recruits.

Seriously. Wow.

Like I was, so I was, I went down this path and I was like, oh my gosh, there's so many options to really kind of meet people in the middle with this and actually have an impact on society. On top of, I come back to what you have on your website. Like the great thing about passive income is living your life on your own terms. And that just resonates with kind of how vending machines work, how you can build systems to let them run themselves, like all of that.

So we bounce that word passive around a lot. I prefer to call it almost automated income, like you and I talked in our pre-show and literally wrote the book on it for FBA. But it's mainly because the idea of passive usually leads people's brains to go, where do you normally see it head?

People get lazy.

They think, I think, yeah, they do.

People get, it's like it, what you put in early is what the compounding comes off as part of.

Okay.

So there's work that comes at the front end usually of something that can be generated passive. You don't almost always, in my experience, start into something that is just passive from the very beginning. Is that, there's nuances, of course. I know that's not 100% true, but in generality or general terms, is that true?

Yeah, that's exactly true.

Okay.

So if I'm going for a vending opportunity that could create passive income through some upfront effort, work, time, energy, attention, money. What does that look like? What would I have to do?

Yeah, you got to find what would be high revenue generating locations. So we break it up into kind of 2 buckets. So you got your high traffic locations, which are going to be airports, going to be YMCAs, going to be the local medical center, hospital, and then you got your high residential places. So apartment complexes with 100+ units, all of those things should do a minimum of 5 figures a month. And our 4 figures a month in revenue. You go meet with them, you have a marketing flyer, you have that conversation. You even offer to come by the location and do what's called like a site visit. And like, they're gonna be like, hey, Neil, what about this space over here by the Amazon lockers? And you're gonna be like, is there power? Yep. I need 3 feet of space.

Yep.

This will work. That type of thing. And then once you get a signed contract and you get the machine will be delivered there, you can finance them. So there's, you don't even need money down on a machine.

So, okay.

You can really get ups. Really started with minimal capital because, yeah, all these manufacturers are just trying to get your business. So they'll lock you into a 60-month term like a car dealership. And that's literally when you buy a vending machine, they'll be like, do you want to buy it or do you want to finance it over 60 months or do you want to do a hybrid? And it's kind of up to you and your situation and what you prefer. Yeah.

So say I was going to finance one just out of curiosity and I wanted to do that over some term. What is typically going to be the term? What's typically the monthly fee if I can generate, you said $5,000? Potentially up to $5,000 per location, per vending machine. Yeah.

So I'm actually getting ready to order 10 of these, what are called smart coolers. They look like a bookshelf vending machine, and I'm about to order 10 of them. I'm going to put 10% down. Interest rate's 8% on the $7,000 machine. So my monthly payment will be $170. And each one of the locations these are going into, I'm projecting $2,000 a month.

So wait a minute, you're going to get 10 machines, you're going to finance 10% down, 8% interest on that over 60 months. Over 60 months. I'm getting these numbers right here. I'm writing this down. That's $170 a month for 10 machines.

For one, each machine.

Each machine's $170 a month.

Yep.

So $1,700 a month for all 10.

Yeah. So if we just stick to the one machine, $7,500 machine, financing 10% down, I'll put $750 down and then that machine will do $2,000. So I will have that paid off in the first Yeah, that's easily a first-year ROI.

So all after 1 year or 12 months, all those machines will be income-producing of $2,000 a month.

Exactly.

And that's revenue. So what are other operating costs that you might have to accumulate out of that? So it's $170 per machine. You've got $2,000 in revenue. Where's my net profit after that?

Yeah, so it's going to depend if you hire someone like me or the whole automation process. I'm all about having an operator. So my margin's around 45%. Okay.

So after the 45%, if you do it for me, then it's going to take, you're going to take 45% of the $2,000 minus the $170, and that'll be kind of my net per machine after each of those.

Yep. And if you were to stock your own machines, you'd get closer to 60% margins. Like your cost of goods is going to be about 30%. Your machine payment's going to be about 10%. And then you're looking at right there, 55% yourself.

So at gross revenues on a machine of around $24,000 a year, then I'm looking at roughly, what is that number about? I'm going to have to do the math here.

Yeah, probably $10,000.

$10,000 in profit per machine per year. Okay. So now if you want to make $50,000 or $100,000 a year, you kind of move the numbers backwards to how much capital you have to deploy in order to make that occur. So the thing that gets me right up front though, and this may be a difficult thing for somebody's time, attention, energy, if they're in a side hustle running another business or in their 9-to-5 lifeline, where are they going to get the time and what should they do and when should they do the ability to outreach to all those locations? And I'm sure there's a lot more where these kinds of machines could be placed that makes sense to place them.

Yeah.

So where, so we, when we help people build routes wherever they live, like whether it's friends, family, customers, whatever we do, we're huge on cold email. So we'll scrape Neil's Radius. We'll use CoStar and we'll use LinkedIn and we'll go after what fit our criteria, like HR. If we're talking like a big manufacturing plant, we're going to go after HR because this is like a break room amenity for employees. But back to your time thing, this is where it's really fascinating because this needs done once a week and will probably take you a half hour to stock. So if you're trying to, we have a ton of parents in the community that want to teach their kids basic economics. And so like, yeah, it's true. The supply and demand side of it.

Yeah.

Or if you're like me, I literally posted an ad on Craigslist for a stalker and what I, what's called an operator, and I got 40 applicants in 48 hours. I was just talking to Chuck this morning in Denver. He had 26 applicants in his, his first day of his job posting. Okay.

So there's a lot of people who want to do that.

Well, think of it, it's like those that want to drive Uber and DoorDash. They won't, I don't care if you stock at 6:00 AM or midnight, it needs to be done. Doesn't matter to me. Once a week, get it done.

So probably programming with people who maybe already are on routes with Uber and DoorDash who could literally stock a machine in between their normal routes.

Exactly. So no one's like, I could do that part.

That's very clever. I, I, it's very clever. Yeah. But what about the trustworthiness of that?

Okay.

Immediately my brain, sorry, goes Craigslist, people applying for a job. You're going to have 26 applicants who are worth No offense, nothing that you just wasted. They're not even good for this at all. How do you vet those folks once you find them?

Yeah, so that was the interesting learning curve for me was the whole filtering. So once they apply, we have a questionnaire that they have to fill out that really kind of flushes out like how responsible and all of that. And then you have like your 3, you narrow down to have a conversation, then you might grab coffee with one. I started with a guy, $20 an hour. I gave him 5% of profits after 90 days. For my route. And then within 3 months I brought him on full-time because he was crushing it.

No doubt.

Okay.

So you found yourself a couple good winners out of those areas.

Yeah, but I think it's, you bring up a great point. You got to qualify them the right way.

Yeah. And that may be one of the challenges of going it alone in this kind of thing is trying to determine something you've already went through a troublesome period of determining, how do I find the right person and entrust them with inventory at the end of the day?

Yeah. I wouldn't worry about inventory. So we just, we took on a micro market in the Philly area and I'm in Oregon, so that's like 6 hours away. Well, the guys we hired to build the micro market from TaskRabbit, we actually ended up hiring one of them as our operator.

Oh, I see.

So you poached.

So we, so just copy, but some gig guy, you know, it's just leveraged a relationship that led— I'm joking.

Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong.

Well, I didn't mean to just blatantly call you out, make you feel bad, but no, if they wanted to work for you, of course, free market.

Yeah.

But keep going. Sorry.

Yeah. Well, and the other thing is if they have a morning day or if they're 4 days on, like Chuck, I mentioned in Denver, he's a firefighter, so he works 3 on, 4 off. So like whatever floats your boat on kind of what your time's worth and how much you want to save.

So really at the end of the day, I don't have to have the localized route. It would be helpful to have a fallback position in case I know where the machines are, but technically this could be done from anywhere.

Exactly.

Cool.

How many machines do you have remote versus how many do you have local?

Yeah, that's a, uh, most of them are within driving distance. So I have 20 local within an hour and then I have one in Philly. We're about to do 15 in Chicago. And then we're doing a massive micro-market for high-end high-rise in Seattle. But I have local boots on the ground in both those markets that are going to help me.

Now, are you predominantly doing all the marketing and direct response yourself and the outreach and the closing of the deals yourself?

Yeah.

And then they're going to be the boots on the ground and they're the boots on the street. So if somebody wants to be an operator in this deal and they want to go about this, they're going to have to do basically the same kind of thing, outreach and get the deals closed and kind of make the relationships happen for these potentially.

Yeah. Or set up a meeting for someone locally to take or try to close them remotely via Zoom.

Hire your closer or find a closer if you can't find the time to do it yourself. Okay. It really just sounds like it's kind of a basic value proposition. I'm curious though, because most of those locations, may already be doing deals with some of them already, right? So it's not unknown. So how do you kind of enter that market competition? Is it saturation problems too for those?

Yeah, so I think we're definitely not at saturation right now. I think in 3 to 5 years it'll be kind of like the self-storage fad of like 2018 where all this private equity's going to come in here and try to snatch up routes and consolidate. Because there's a huge asset play here of your route that's worth a couple multiples. But I think back to your point, The interesting thing is with the baby boomer generation right now, the only way they can check inventory is they have to go by the machine. Well, humans are lazy. So like literally whether it's in Philly or whether it's in Seattle or here in Oregon, I can track the inventory on my phone.

Wow.

They're all wireless connected now?

Connected.

Love it.

So like if we have a row that holds 6 salads and we have 5 sold out, but they're showing there's still one there for a buyer. We can get ahead of before it's empty. Like when I was in the Philly airport yesterday, there was a vending machine, 90% of it was empty. And I was just thinking, I was like, that's probably someone my dad's age.

Uh-oh.

That's his vending machine. He doesn't know how to use a cell phone. Sure. And so the only way to track his inventory is to go through airport security with all his freaking inventory and check that damn thing. Oh no.

Yeah, that would be terrible. Well, then there's your opportunity as you look at it from a market position to contact them and say, hey, we can keep your inventory in and you're going to get more profitable space because you're Are sharing revenues, I assume, with them in the space at the 3-foot space location.

Yeah. So that's what I'm to the point now with people kind of getting word of like the lucrativeness of this, that I lead with revenue share. Like I had a call right before this call with 200 properties up in Connecticut, down to New Jersey, and it was with their development team and we led with, I mean, 5% revenue at 200 properties. That's when you start talking scale.

Nice. So for them, as long as they know, or there's an opportunity for an existing machine to be bumped by a better revenue fee that isn't stocked as well and making much money, there's your opportunity. Obviously swoop in and say, hey, we have real-time inventory management and we're going to get 5% rev share. And how do you want us to get started?

Exactly. And we have boots on the ground and all those.

And we got boots on the ground. So basically for them, it's found money and it's more money. And why would they say no as long as they have the space and the power, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Better than, I mean, right now the perfect storm with If we talk about those high traffic commercial spaces, they're freaking out about how do we get people back in the office?

Yeah.

How do we get food, people back in? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So they want to give, they want to give, hey, can we give to get Neil back in the office? Can we do a $20 credit to go buy the MicroMarket? Because guess what? Now Neil's going to want to come into the office. So now I'm invoicing the business whether Neil uses that $20 or not.

Oh, interesting. So you have like a credit gift card kind of thing that's going on with these machines too?

Exactly. With the machine, the markets, the machines. So there's this whole like, so one of these roofing companies, we literally mark down the prices 50% off for all the employees of this roofing business. And then whatever it does in sales, let's say it does $500 a week, we invoice the business another $500. So the employee's only paying half price.

Brilliant. Yeah. And the value statement is there for the business to keep them on board and keep them coming back to the office to do their job and keep things in edge. Love that. That's, you've got a very smart system working on here. Did you, is this all you?

Yeah, but it's been, I mean, just classic startup. I've been a part of a couple startups that, you know, all those books where it's like, there's, it's like raising a kid. There is no book that's good.

I lost 2 kids, but the 3rd one's gonna make it.

Yeah.

Follows my number one parenting tip when people ask me what I think about having four kids and being a parent. I was like, well, just keeping them alive is number one.

That's it. Yeah.

All I gotta do. I mean, that's why they put a coat on when it's cold outside. Put your shoes on. Don't run in the yard. Blah blah blah blah blah. It's all about keeping them alive. Eat your vegetables so you don't die. Literally, it's all about keeping them alive. Business tattoo, isn't it? It's all about keeping it alive.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Very cool. So where are the markets that you would not recommend opening these kinds of things?

I'm big on like. Anything that's got less than 100 employees or less than 100 units. That's kind of how I look at it.

100 units. And by units, just to get clarity, you mean like units of an apartment complex or units of a condo or something like that? Yeah. Or condo or something like that.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Doors.

Hotel.

Yeah.

Something like that. Hotels. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't look at it as like, oh, are you in Springfield, Missouri? What's it, I don't look at it like that. We actually do a market analysis for free before people sign up just to like educate them.

Very cool.

I did help a guy in Nebraska one time and he was in a town of 20,000 and he had 3 targets, the Super 8, the Motel 6, and I forget, I think it was a community YMCA. And it's a volume game. We want 3 wins out of 10 leads.

Now, is $2K kind of an average? I mean, you mentioned the smart coolers. Is that kind of the average for the smart cooler or are there different machines, different levels, different expectations kind of along the line there?

Yeah, so for that, it's probably average for that smart cooler, but that Seattle property we're outfitting, it's 1,100 units. We're going to turn yoga room that's not being used into. It's going to look like an unattended 7-Eleven room. Like they're going to key fob to get in the door of the yoga room and it'll have 3 refrigerators. So 2 drink coolers, one with like salads and sandwiches and fresh subs and things. And I think that one will do $8,000 a month.

Very cool. And that's 3 machines in a yoga location?

Yeah, it's like a yoga studio turned into— yeah.

So I think it'll do So, you're going to do more health drinks and other kinds of higher-end food types?

Higher-end, exactly.

Salads and other things and green drinks and smoothie drinks. And, I'm just making stuff up, you tell me if I'm wrong, but something in that line.

Yeah, protein shakes, all that stuff that people that are— I mean, these are people paying a premium for rent in Seattle.

Yeah, kind of what I was thinking. Did they decide what goes in the machines or did you help them decide or just like, here's your menu and this is everything you can put inside the machine?

Yeah, we're going to do a collaboration. We have a framework that's like, here's our healthy food options, here's our drink options. Here, at the end of the day, people love Diet Coke. So even if they're like all healthy, people want their Snickers and their Diet Coke. So we have a framework and then part of the QR code on there is they can provide suggestions.

Okay.

So we get suggestions. Like we had a property that we had a suggestion come through that was like, we want yerba mate. And I didn't even know what it was at the time. Like, what the hell is this? But now everybody, yeah, it's huge.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Okay.

So you do kind of a hybrid consultation with them. They may offer, but you have some kind of, I'm going to call it a menu or selection of types of products you can get, right?

Yeah. You kind of want to guide them like cattle.

So when that selection process logistics for a moment, my brain is kind of going through and I hope you don't mind me asking all these questions, but the end is like when you go backwards and say, okay, what am I going to offer them? How are the relationships established for the product lines, whether the, they're electronic or food Or otherwise, how do you establish those?

You mean where, like, where do we find inventory?

Yeah, basically. Where were you getting them from? Are you buying from wholesalers? Do you go make distribution arrangements? How did you find your inventory suppliers?

Yeah, so we're at that tipping point now where we're getting a lot of wholesale interest. Like I had Liquid Death reach out to me last week about a kind of a national footprint distribution channel where previously we had to get it through Sam's Club. So we're at that point, I think. Crawl, walk, run for a lot of these like vendingpreneurs is probably start with Costco or Sam's Club or Walmart. We have the playbook on where we recommend to get which items, but those national distributions, like I have a meeting Friday with Coke corporate. So those are kind of the conversations now where we're going to try to drop our costs another 10%.

So if I'm going to wholesale some of the products and types, who actually does that? Is that part of the operator's job? Then to grab materials and goods, et cetera, and go stock? Like logistically, I'm thinking about how that works, right?

Oh yeah. My operator does all of that. So he has our business credit card. He like, initially I would buy this stuff, ship it to him, and then he would go stock because I didn't trust him with expenses initially. But once he proved himself, but yeah, like now there's these storage, a lot of these storage units now they want your business, so they'll accept packages. You can put a fridge in your storage unit. Just, there's 100 ways to go about it. I used my garage for a little while, landscaping shed for a little while. So you can kind of get a little creative on it if you want to do it yourself or actually do it, probably kind of start.

And what do you recommend, like starting with 1 machine and 5 machines? It just depends upon income and goals and actions, or what do you recommend?

Yeah, I'd probably say 1. I think for us it was like we started the 1 and see if it works to learn it. And then I was like, oh, this pays for our daycare. And then the second The second one was like, oh, now we can afford a nanny. And then the third one was like, we can join the country club. So it wasn't like replacing our 9 to 5 income. It was more of a, we don't want to change our lifestyle as we had kids.

Yeah. So it really was kind of that passive side hustle thing at first for you, right? I mean, was that always the intention or did you intend to grow it into something much larger?

Oh, that was the intention. I, or sorry, I did not intend to become like a national brand for a community of people trying to break into them. I mean, it was more just to grow it and provide healthy options because what you see at the airport is trash.

Yeah, I noticed that's kind of where my head goes. And I think a lot of people do too. When they see vending machines, they always think like a big, a big fridge of junk that we won't always want to go. And maybe we do because we don't tell anybody and we can buy it from vending machines and eat it on the side. Nobody knows, right? The guilty pleasure. But how many operators do you have now, like within your organization and how many like vendor relationships do you have with people that are developing their own You know, routes and lines?

Yeah. So we, I have 2 operators, one up north and then one out east. And then we have about 150 people building their routes all across the country.

Excellent. 150 people building their routes. Very cool. And kind of what are you seeing in terms of their average and opportunity capital in, capital outlay? Kind of what were you, what are you seeing?

Yeah, I think within 6 months, so we kind of have a guarantee, which is a very low ball, but within 6 months we'd say we'll get you to $1,000 a month in revenue. That's what we guarantee them. And I mean, as with that stockwell example of the smart cooler, that could be one machine, one location. And then you got, we got everything under the moon. We got the side project. I want to teach my 14-year-old kid that this is his allowance. So they just want the one machine that's profitable at let's say $1,500 a month. And then we have Jason started last January and he's up to 30 machines. And like it's a full-on enterprise now.

No kidding.

So it's kind of—

3 machines in 1 year?

Yeah. Both sides of the spectrum.

Wow.

Was that mainly because Jason was out just pounding the pavement, getting deals done, selling? Was that really—

I mean, we have cold callers and emailers that'll tee him up meetings. That's what we do for all the students. But he was definitely more assertive than just the normal. I mean, he spent $30 grand on each machine. He's doing $30 grand a month right now on autopilot.

That's amazing. Well done. Is there any question I didn't ask you that I didn't get a chance to ask you on this process? Maybe you wanted to answer?

No, I think you touched it all. I mean, it's, yeah, it's just happy to be on here. And if anyone has questions, feel free to reach out for sure.

Yeah. And where would they go get you? Just so we'll put in the show notes and recommend it. Where do we have them go check you out?

Probably the most common social media channels, Twitter, MrPassive_, and then our website's vendingpreneurs.com where they can book a call and we can do a free breakdown of their kind of market for them to see how many leads or how much meat's on the bone to even pursue.

Well, it's really great that you brought this up and thank you for coming and sharing that because to me, this is kind of another sales channel of e-com. Really, it's commerce and digital products on just a different sales channel than some of the ones we normally talk about. That's kind of how I saw it. And maybe I'm mistakenly oversimplifying it or not, but really it's just a sales channel of distributing physical products, right?

Well, and I was coming through your website after our last chat. Yeah. And I, I have my operator, 'cause we have an FBA store and you want to talk about like vertical integration and controlling the whole like logistics and supply and just that whole, so we're going to have to talk a little more offline because I'm seriously—

Absolutely.

I got some more talking we got to talk with you about too. Here's more. So we're definitely going to talk some more. You piqued my interest in that because it does Because in my brain, it crosses a sales channel. It's not wholly different than moving physical or inventory, uh, and product like we do in the online platforms. This is just a different sales channel of an online platform. And I was literally going to ask, could you move products from a store or brand? Like if we had Amazon FBA products into one of these machines and I think I know the answer. I don't know why you couldn't, right?

Yeah. I mean, in the Philly airport, they had a Lego machine and then they had a It was called the technology vending machine and it, there was a family buying their kids literally these Apple headphones for their flight.

And they're probably, they're pretty good size.

2x.

Yeah. They're, yeah, they're all glass and they're probably 2x the price you, but people pay for convenience. They're probably on going on an international flight. How do we keep our kids occupied with this $100 Lego set?

Amazon's easy for 2 days or even 1 hour in major cities, but not when you're moving through an airport. They're not— that's a moving target. They are not going to hit. Yeah. So those guys are like, oh, we left all of our AirPods at home or whatever. It's like, well, you're not going to be disrupting this flight. So click order up the AirPods. Be quiet. Watch your iPad on this flight.

Yeah.

I can see where those would actually— crime is of opportunity and location is a big factor in that. No doubt about it. Well, good stuff, man. Hey, last thing, if there's someone in my network or someone I could introduce you to who, um, you may want to talk to, have a lunch with, connect with, and it was in my power to You know, get them connected with you, who would that be?

Oh, put me on the spot. Anyone. So I go, this is the sales guy in me. Anyone that has a real estate develop, like a portfolio of properties or like a corporation with a bunch of offices. Because I just go to that.

I think I can help you with that. Got a couple things coming to mind. Yeah, for sure. And I'll make sure I get you connected with them. So no, like Warren Buffett, not Elon Musk. I got a couple of those. I got an Andre 3000. We had a Jim Collins from Good to Great earlier. We've had, who was the earlier one?

I forgot.

Somebody mentioned, it wasn't Warren, it was Elon, it was somebody else. Anybody, nobody like that? Nobody fancy?

Well, now that you bring up Warren, we are entering probably the most important golf week of the year. So Tiger would be a nice—

Tiger Woods. Okay, guys, if Tiger Woods, like I always say at the end, 6 degrees of separation, somebody might be listening to this podcast or Tiger You might be listening to this podcast, click in below, man. Say hello, tag him in here. Let's see if we can't get you guys connected.

Teach us how to hit a golf ball.

Well, I, I do putt. I am not a golfer. I'm a divoter, so I don't really go, I don't really get out that much on the golf course. But, uh, dude, it's so great to have you on here and thank you for sharing, uh, sharing for this great information, new ideas, new sales channels, and definitely getting into the weeds of some of the mechanics and the money.

And I certainly appreciate Yeah, Neil, thanks for having me on. And like I said last time, I just, I mean, your website, the whole message around our lives, our journey, our freedom, like control your, the more, anyway, it just resonates so much with me. And so it's the root of our family and we're all about freedom and spending time together. So I love what you guys are doing.

The 5 Fs, man.

Yep, exactly.

Faith, family, friends, and freedom, right? And there's one other S there, but I won't get into that. So it's a family-friendly podcast, Mike. Don't push me to the—

no, I'm just kidding.

Appreciate you, dude. Thanks for hanging out.

Yeah, likewise. Thank you.

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