DESTROY mediocrity and live your BEST life | with Kevin Kartchner

We help business owners scale their business to 6 figures. In my head, I would say, I want to be an investor and business owner. How? I didn't know how it would happen, but I knew that's what I wanted to be. Striving for your potential because it's there. And here are the steps that have helped me do what I've done. They said mediocrity is regret. If you know how to sell something, you can run a business. Like, I was actually a professional extreme unicyclist.

Kevin, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast, man. How are you feeling today?

Thank you so much for having me on here, Nick. Today is a fabulous day, especially when I get to hang out with you.

Yeah, there's nothing I would rather be doing. So for the members of the Book Thinkers family that did not catch my posts last year about your book and they're unfamiliar with Kevin Karchner, why don't you introduce yourself to everybody?

Yeah, for sure. So my name's Kevin Karchner. I wrote the book Talk Is Cheap: The Fight Against Mediocrity. And yeah, there it is, which is funny. I'm living in Mexico right now and before I left I'm like, I have to at least bring one copy to like film and do ads and stuff or whatever. And I forgot. So I don't even have a physical copy of my own book. I'm going to have my sister bring me one. But so I do that. I host the Create Own Economy Conference, which Nick spoke at last year.

Yeah.

And killed it. Whenever I ask people who was the best speaker, they say Nick was just so well poised and what he said was so powerful. So he killed it. And then I have a coaching program called the Fight Against Mediocrity Program where we help business owners scale their business to 6 figures.

All right, let's go back in time a little bit. I think what you used to do professionally is very interesting to people. So why don't you talk a little bit about your unicycling days?

Yes. I either It's funny because whenever I tell people, yeah, I was a professional extreme unicyclist, like just, just last week someone was like, you must have played basketball. Like you're really tall. I'm like, I was actually a professional extreme unicyclist. And they're like, you're kidding, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like it's either you're kidding or like you were a clown or like the thing with one wheel. So yeah, I mean, I, uh, one of my buddies was riding one. I picked it up and got really into it in 2008. I went to a competition in South Dakota called the North America Unicycle Championships and Convention and didn't know anything, didn't know anybody, but got around the right people. And then 2 years later, I placed 5th in North America, and then 2 years after that, placed 4th in the world in street unicycling. Was sponsored by Five Ten Shoes, a unicycle company, a clothing brand. But there I'm not doing it today because there wasn't a ton of money in it and I want to be able to walk when I'm older. But yeah, if you Google Kevin Karchner unicycle freestyle, we still have the top viewed extreme unicycle video in the world. It has like 2.7 million views. It was done by Devin Supertramp.

Yeah, that's super cool. And then you transition into the world of sales and business. So how did, how did you get introduced to the world of selling and why do you think Sales is an important skill set to have.

Yeah, dude, me and you have talked about this before. I, when I was 14 years old, my uncle gave me the audio version of Rich Dad Poor Dad, probably pirated. I did not pay for it, but he put it on my MP3 player. And so while everyone else on the school bus was listening to Britney Spears or AC/DC or whatever, I was being indoctrinated by Robert Kiyosaki. And there's a story in there when he talks about he's being interviewed in Japan by a very, very proficient writer. And she said, I would love to be a bestselling author like you. And he said, oh, actually, I know an advertising and sales school down the street. I can introduce you to the founder, the owner, and you can learn how to sell your book and do that. And she stood up in disgust and said, I will never do sales. I will never do sales. I'll never stoop to that level. And as she was walking out, Robert's kind of backpedaling. And then he looks at his book and he picks up his book and he says, You know, it says bestselling author, not best-written author. And then he talked about how if you know how to sell, you can go anywhere and do anything. And so from that point forward, I always knew I needed to learn the skill of sales. But it wasn't until I graduated from high school in accounting and realized that $60,000 can't buy you very much real estate or get you very much passive income or do very much once you get married. Then I realized, okay, it's time to get into sales. And so I actually started praying for a sales job. Like most people pray that they'll never talk to a salesperson. And I, for 7 days, prayed that I would get a job in sales. And on the 7th day, ran into a friend at a breakfast place and he's like, I'm actually hiring salespeople. And the rest is history.

What are some of your other memorable takeaways from Rich Dad Poor Dad? And have you read the book again? And if so, how many more times?

I've read it probably like 5 or 6 times. Listen, read.

We're in the same boat there.

Yeah, it's one that whenever I'm— it's just like it's a paradigm shifter, for lack of a better term. Like, it's a paradigm shifter. One of my other big takeaways from that book was the idea of investor and business owner and making your money work for you and getting leverage. Ever since I learned about that concept in school, when I was in high school and middle school, when the teachers would say, what do you guys want to be when you grow up? And everyone would raise their hand and be like, doctor, firefighter, police officer, whatever. I was always too ashamed— not ashamed, but shy to raise my hand. But I'd want— in my head, I would say, I want to be an investor and business owner. How? I didn't know how it would happen, but I knew that's what I wanted to be. So that's probably my other big takeaway from Rich Dad Poor Dad.

Yeah, that's awesome. You know, as you may know, and as we may have talked about before, I was not much of a reader growing up, and I was also insecure in the classroom about sharing what I wanted to do, which was a confusing space for me because I didn't know what I wanted to do anyway. Definitely not business person, investor, entrepreneur. I mean, I wish I had that set of glasses on when I was 14 or 15 years old. But reading Rich Dad Poor Dad changed my life too. And it wasn't until the age of 20, but I'm so happy that I read it. And yeah, once you put on that pair of glasses and you, you see the world through the lens of leverage and ownership and investing and money working on your behalf instead of working for it, I mean, it's tough to go back. So just like you, I'm probably unemployable at this point.

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. And I mean, even though I read it when I was 14, I didn't know how to start a business, which I just didn't. Like, I didn't know. I didn't have any— feel like I have any good ideas. I didn't know sales. I didn't know like what a business looked like. I was so scared to put myself out there and be like, I do this, will you buy something from me? Like, so, so, so, so, so scared. And so I didn't know what else to do. So I went to college and got a degree in accounting because I thought that was the language of business. And someone said, if you can, if you understand accounting, you can do a business, you can run a business, whatever. What they should have said is, if you know how to sell something, you can run a business and do that. And it wasn't until I learned sales that I was like, oh, this is how you run a business. Like, you have to exchange money with someone else. Which is a recent discovery. I think that's why I'm so passionate about what I do and helping businesses grow in sales and marketing and reach that first 6-figure mark and beyond is because I just didn't know how to do it for 13 years, from 14 to 27. I didn't know how to do it. So I think that's one of the reasons I'm so passionate about it.

When you're coaching people in your programs and at your conferences and in general, What are some of the key characteristics of a good salesperson? What types of skill sets do you encourage people to cultivate and learn more about?

First of all, I think anyone can do sales. I actually, it's funny, dude, because when I first started my business, I was like, you got to learn sales, you got to learn sales, you got to learn sales. But I learned that sales turns people off immediately. Most people, 99% of people. And so I actually don't talk about sales that much anymore. in the advertising and marketing. I more talk about like building your dream life, growing your business, all that stuff. But sales is really just serving because if you have something that you believe can help someone, you have a moral obligation to share it with them and to invite them to purchase from you. And when someone exchanges money with you, that's when value can truly be provided. So sales is just like having something you believe in and going out and telling people about it and exchanging money with them. That's like super simple as far as like the nitty-gritty details that people need. They need to be curious because when you're talking to someone, you have to understand where they're coming from, what they feel, why they're looking for something, what they really need. And I think the other big one is just like relentless because sales can be so discouraging because you get told no, especially when you start a business. Things are tough, things are hard. You don't know what you're doing. You don't know how to make an offer. You don't know what to say. Like, that's the biggest thing. You don't even know what to say. Like, you're just rambling. You just throw up all over them with features. So I think just the willingness to be relentless and not give up.

Yeah. When I went to college and I had my first internship, well, it was really a business. I ran a house painting business for 2 years and—

Wow.

And I went into that knowing that I needed to embrace a lot of discomfort because I was very introverted, very insecure at the time, but I had to generate my own business, which I probably missed during the discovery process of applying for this internship/job/business creation. So I had to do door-to-door sales and it was terrifying for me.

Wow.

But through that experience, I was able to realize, yeah, you have to be relentless because 99 out of every 100 doors I would knock on would just say no immediately. And you did, you needed to be curious. I think curiosity is Probably one of my best sales traits because I am genuinely curious. I want to learn everything there is to learn from everybody there is out there. So I'm happy that you brought those 2 up. So let's transition a little bit to writing this book. Where did the idea come from for Talk Is Cheap: The Fight Against Mediocrity, and why'd you decide to write it?

Yes, dude, it is such an interesting story. So Graduated from college and worked as an accountant for a year for a big real estate company. End of the year, I was like, okay, what actually ended up happening is I saved up $9,000, met my wife, and spent all $9,000 on her ring pretty much. And so I was like, yeah, I got to figure out some way to make more money. So I went into sales and then did sales for a software company for a year and then went and sold homes. New homes. And while I was there, it was— I learned very quickly that you can have the same sales skills, but if you just sell something more expensive, you make a lot more money. I was really good at sales at the software company, but it's just a low-ticket, hard-to-sell thing to small business owners who are difficult to work with in the first place. And then when I started selling homes, it was like people actually wanted homes and it's a high ticket. It's like $400,000 home. So I made a lot more money doing that. Um, but the culture there killed me, dude. Like a lot of complacency, a lot of, um, negativity, a lot of wasted time. Um, and it was just, it's just tough. And so I don't know if you've ever experienced this, this where you're, where you're talking to someone and they're like, oh yeah, you can't do this, or Yeah, that's not possible. Or they start saying things that like are very negative, pessimistic, and you just start to get a fire inside of you. Like, no, I can do that. Like, no, I'm going to do that.

Yeah.

Like, you know that fire inside of you when people start doing that? That was me all the time, every single day. I was just like, ah, no, we can do it. We can make this happen. We can grow. Like, we don't have to be negative. Let's like— and so that was just like every single day. being in that environment, I almost had like this constant fire inside of me of like, no, this isn't how it should be. I don't want to be surrounded by this. And that's honestly kind of ended up being a blessing because that's where the fight against mediocrity was born. Because I was reading a book by Darren or listening to a book by Darren Hardy at the gym one day while I was working there called The Entrepreneurship Roller Coaster. And in that book he says, You know, a lot of people do what they do because they love whatever it is. But he's like, but on the flip side of it, hatred is a good motivator as well. He's like, there's yin and yang, right? Like there's the sun and there's the moon, there's God and there's Satan. He's like, there's all these opposites. And so he said, whatever you love, you could also figure out what the opposite of that is and let that fuel you. I'm paraphrasing. And so when he said that, I said, well, I love success. I love ambition. I love going for big goals. I'm like, what's the opposite of that? And it like hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, you know, lightning struck and it was like the fight against mediocrity. And I got chills like the first time I said it. It's like the fight against mediocrity. Like, that was it. And from there, I go to the— I wake up early and go to the gym every morning. And there's a superpower of waking up early and going to the gym where you're in solitude, no one else is around you, and your brain is fresh. So fresh brain, no one talking to you, you can really get in your own head and really get some really cool inspiration, revelation, and guidance. And so in that time, I didn't listen to so many podcasts and Audible books or music at the gym. I listened to YouTube videos, and I would listen to motivational videos by Les Brown, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Lewis Howes, you know.

Eric Thomas.

Eric Thomas. Yeah. Um, Ed Mylett, all, all those, Darren Hardy, all those like inspiration, not so much like tactical stuff, but just like fire you up. That's what I'd listen to. And it started, it was really cool because as I was listening to those, it I say this and I don't know, I haven't got a lot of pushback yet, but I kid you not, it was like revelation was every morning while I was at the gym, I'd be listening to these and I have a note in my Apple Notes on my phone that says Talk to Sheep: The Fight Against Mediocrity. And it would just like start filling up slowly with ideas and I'd be writing down something and it'd be like, that's chapter 1. And I'd be writing and be like, that's chapter 2, that's chapter 3. And like, put this here and put that here. And it just started like rolling out in this note. And then that's the first phase of it. And I'd actually had, I'm ashamed to say this, but I had the goal to write a book for 4 years, but I never did it. And one huge shift made the biggest difference for me from going to, oh man, I didn't accomplish this goal this year, to yes, I finally did it. Number one, it was having fewer goals and getting more focused on them. But number two, it was The daily action was my focus and not the big goal. I think what happens sometimes is we look up at our goals, they're like this big Mount Everest, and we look up at it and we're like, yeah, that's not happening today. That's way too big. I'm just gonna try again tomorrow. But instead of doing that, I just looked straight down and I said, all I have to do today is write 500 words. And so I'd wake up every morning and I'd write 500 words, and some days I'd write 1,000 or 1,500, just flow. You know what I mean? It would just flow. I know you're, um, working on your book or almost done with it, so I know you know how that goes. Others days it'd be like I felt like a caveman, just like trying to hit the, hit the buttons and make the words come out, and it just wouldn't flow. But I noticed that that consistency, you know, after 4 or 5 months I had this book and I was like, it's here, it's right in front of me. And, and then you go into the whole editing and revising and all that stuff, which is Actually, though, a lot harder than the writing. But, um, that's how it was born, dude. And I didn't necessarily have like the credentials to do it, um, which is why I'm going back through this year and doing version 2 to kind of tell the rest of the story. But I was just passionate about it, man. And I think that's what, you know, this book was born just because of my passion of fighting mediocrity. Striving for your potential because it's there. And here are the steps that have helped me do what I've done.

There's so much to unpack there. But first, congrats on the second version. So I didn't realize you had another edition coming out. What— when will that come out? Is that later this year, next year?

It'll be either later this year or early next year. And I actually got the— I was actually— so I'm a quarter of the way through a new book. like a second book, not even like a whole new book. And then I was talking to one of my mentors and he's like, so what are your goals for this year? I'm like, write another book. And then it like hit me. I'm like, wait a second, why am I writing another book when my first book could be, you know, I, I, the story's not over. And so it kind of hit me like, no, I need to go back through and add some pieces of the story that, that aren't there. And so I probably shouldn't like go out and announce it yet because It's in the works, but end of this year is when that will be.

Yeah, super cool. No, I like the idea of revising content over time. That's what's nice about books nowadays is that you can update them and especially with Amazon print-on-demand services and platforms like that, an updated version of your book will just be sent to the next customer instead of having to buy out a ton of inventory or something like that. So that's cool. So did you feel Any type of imposter syndrome putting the book out the first time?

That's a really good question. I think that's what kept me from writing it for the longest time. But I think there were 2 things that really helped me overcome any sort of imposter syndrome is number one, I went from accounting to sales and cold called like 100 business owners every day for a year. And when you do something like that, it's just like hard and draining and it sucks. And doing that, and then I did some triathlons during that year and, and I started to like really challenge my mind. And because of that, I started to think like, well, why not me? Like, why can't I do that? And you know, you know the quotes of like, if you can believe it, then you can achieve it. I was like, why don't I just stop saying that's a good quote and why don't I just like believe it for me and believe that I can do that? Yeah. And so I think just after listening to these YouTube videos so many times, It just like started to become a part of me of like, why can't I do it? Why not me? And I think another part of it was I'd read some books. I started to read more books. And when I think when people first get into reading books, it's like the headliners, right? Rich Dad Poor Dad, Shoe Dog, 10X Rule, like the big, big headliners. But as you start reading more books, you start getting into more niche books that not a lot of people talk about because you just start seeing them. And I started reading some books and there was one book, I can't even remember what it was, but I started reading it and I'm like, You know what? This book really isn't that good. Not in like a rude sort of way, like writing a book is hard, but in just like a, if they can do it, I can do it too.

Yeah.

And then I guess the last piece of that was I had just my whole life, I kind of, for the first time, looked down the road at my life and was like, if I keep on the path I'm on, I'm going to be stuck in mediocrity for the rest of my life. And I was scared to talk about it before because I didn't wanna offend people, you know, getting in your face about the fight against mediocrity. I didn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. I was scared to put myself out there, but then I realized like, yeah, but if I don't, I'm gonna have the regret my entire life of not just going for it. And that's what pushed me over the edge.

Yeah, it's kind of a phase that I'm in as well. I made some big changes over the last year and a lot of them had to do with that primary motivation of not wanting to look back on my life and have any regret like you. You don't read stories in these books about people who played under their comfort zone, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You read about people who break outside of it or expand it consistently. And so that's really cool. Let's talk a little bit about your morning routine. So you have a course, right? That's, that helps people wake up consistently earlier in the morning.

Yep. howtowakeupearly.com.

howtowakeupearly.com. All right.

I think is it anyways. But yeah, if someone DMs me morning on Instagram, I just send it to 'em for free.

But All right. How long have you been waking up early? How early is early? Did you say 5:00 AM earlier?

So I wake up between 4 and 5, like 4:30 is like the, the pretty standard. And I don't know if I've told you this, I talk about it in my book, but like I sucked at waking up early. Like my siblings would play rock paper scissors to like who would have to go wake me up for school because I'd just be a rock. I would sleep through my alarm. My friends, when they would want to go to the gym with me, they'd have to come into my house, turn off my alarm and wake me up. Like just couldn't. And people would be like, dude, Kevin, wake up. And I'd be like, I can't. And so I had to come up with the science of waking up early. And yeah, I wake up like 4:30. Okay, nice.

And how long's your workout in the morning and are there other pieces to your morning routine other than the gym?

Yeah, so morning time, definitely. So I do the non-negotiables in the morning, which for me are investing in my body, my mind, and my spirit. And so I figure if I can get those done and out of the way before my family wakes up, then the rest of the days I can pour into them because I've already poured into myself. And so I'll go to the gym for usually about an hour, like maybe an hour 15, hour 30 if it's a longer workout. I'll come back, read the scriptures, pray, and then I'll hop into another book. Or I usually listen to like an audiobook or podcast at the gym, so that takes care of my mind. Or I'll even just hop into an important project that I need to get started for on the day so that I can get ahead of stuff that I need to be doing.

Yeah, sort of like eat that frog mentality.

Exactly.

Okay. I want to go back to the prayers and scripture piece in a little bit. But first I'll share. So I've been, I wake up now at 5:55, so about an hour and a half later than you do, but I'm on day 50 of 75 Hard right now and I get both of my workouts done every morning before the workday starts. And earlier you were talking about having mental clarity in the morning and I experienced the same thing. I do a 45-minute walk with my dog every morning out in the woods and I go early enough that there's only 1 or 2 people in this big 50-acre park. when I'm there every morning. And so it's a lot of time to think about business and life and whatever I have going on. And then I hit the gym with a little bit of caffeine and I get the blood flowing. And having those exercise endorphins to leverage for the rest of your workday is also an amazing feeling. So I don't think I'll ever stop the morning workouts, that's for sure.

Yeah, no, I've tried both. I definitely like the morning workouts and Part of my morning routine that's actually come since we— so we adopted a baby boy. His name's Stanford. He's 13 months now. And one of the things that I adopted to my morning routine is actually an hour and a half just with my family. So from 7:30 to 9 or 8 to 9:30, I'm just with them, eating breakfast with them, going on a walk with them, do all that stuff. And because I wake up early, I'm able to just allocate that time for them too.

Yeah. You tell the story and I'm going to forget it, but I've seen you, you tell the story twice now from stage of, I think the Jazz owner. Is that who it is?

Yeah. Larry H. Miller. He owned the Jazz and owns the Utah Jazz basketball team. He sold it like last year, but yeah.

Can you tell the, the story of what his son says? Because I think it's a Powerful story. It sticks out from your speech.

Yeah, for sure. So I read Larry H. Miller's autobiography while I was in Lake Powell one year, just busted out the whole week. And super, super impressive guy, went from nothing to billions of dollars and, you know, bought the Utah Jazz, sold it for like $2 billion. I can't remember, it was a couple billion dollars. And really, really impressive guy, but he died in his early 60s. And something that stood out to me was in the book, it talked about how he was so focused and singular on what he was doing that some days he would throw a candy bar in his trunk, come home that night, the candy bar would still be in his trunk and he hadn't eaten all day. And he would just like push his body, push his body, push his body, push his body until basically at the end of his life, you know, it wasn't a matter of, oh, I can change it. It was all the neglect had compounded and he declined very, very rapidly and died in his early 60s. And his son Brian, and this was, it fascinated me. And so I started looking up just about Larry in general and started reading up on him, how he grew his business and all that stuff. And I found an article that Um, had interviewed his sons.

Mm-hmm.

And one of his sons, Brian, um, and I want you guys to, for those who are listening, you know, if you have kids, I want you to imagine, you know, maybe, maybe passing on a little bit earlier than you probably should have and having one of your kids say this about you. He said, yeah, I'll look at all that my dad had done and he made a lot of impact. He did a lot of good, but couldn't he have just taken a little bit better care of his body and his health so he could be here today with us still doing those things. And just like when I read that, it just like hit me.

Yeah. Oh, well, that's it. You made me think about it when you talked about an hour and a half with your family every morning as a non-negotiable or just as part of your routine recently. And I think that's amazing. I have a tattoo that says family first, and I try to remind myself that at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

Yeah.

You know, and I want to build that into my family as, as it grows in the future as well.

Yeah. It's a fun thing to talk about because, I mean, I could tell you, I could, I could start saying a lot of names, really successful people. And one of the things that they say once they've, you know, got all this success is, yeah, it was really good, but I regret not spending time with my family. Like, I regret neglecting my family. I missed my daughter from years 1 to 11. Like, I missed that whole section, and it just made me— it just clicked with me. I'm like, I just never want to say that. I just don't ever want to have to say, oh yeah, it's all this success is good, but man, I really wish I would've spent more time with my family. Like, I just don't ever want to say that.

Yeah, I feel the same way. It's, it's part of the reason that I became an entrepreneur. I don't ever want to say, oh, I missed a T-ball game, or I missed this, or I missed that. Like, I want to be involved in coaching sports programs. I want to travel with my All that type of stuff in the future. I don't have any yet. So that's really cool. Let's transition a little bit back to the book. So mediocrity, can we define that? Do you have a definition that you use on stage or while you're talking to people about it?

Mediocrity is— so at the end of my podcast, I actually ask everyone what does the fight against mediocrity mean to them? And I honestly can't remember who said it, but they said it and I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start using that definition. They said mediocrity is regret. Mediocrity is regretting that you could have done more, you could have become more, but you didn't. For me, that really struck a chord with me because when I think of the fight against mediocrity, the reason I'm fighting it is because if I settle for mediocrity, then at the end of my life I'd be like, dang, dang, I messed up. So that's it.

Wow. I really like that. Mediocrity is regret. I heard, I read somebody recently, it was a quote in a book called How to Die Happy, and the author was quoting somebody else and he said that grief is love unexpressed. And I think what you said just made me think of mediocrity is life unlived.

Yeah.

It's under your potential. So that's a really cool way of phrasing it.

Wow. Yeah, write that down.

Write it down. Mediocrity is life unlived. Maybe I'll have to—

That just became a Kevin Karchner original, huh?

Original quote. I like it. No, I, this subject is something I think about a lot because in my book, which you brought up, it's on its like 4th round of editing now or something like that. So I'll pick a date soon, but I write a lot about that in the beginning of the book too, because I think reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, what it originally did for me was it showed me all of this unfulfilled potential. I wasn't conscious of what I could become until I read that book, and I realized that there was this entire world outside of the lane that I was currently on, and I was ignoring it. It's like I had blinders on. Once I removed them, It was scary because, okay, wow, there's a lot more work to do than I thought. I thought I was just going to follow this 9-to-5 thing up the chain for 60 years and be happy and retire. But no, wait a second, there's so much more to life than that. And so, yeah, when I think about mediocrity and when I'm writing this book and kind of framing how I got into personal development for people, it's all about unfulfilled potential, like a life unlived. It's a scary thing to think about sometimes.

Yeah, I know. It really is. I mean, it's one of the things that drives me every day, which healthy or unhealthy, it's like I never want to look back and be like, yeah, I just settled. So.

No, I think healthy. I have a tattoo on my chest, memento mori, remember your own mortality. Like you are going to die. You don't have an infinite amount of time on this planet. I'm super into biohacking and everything, so I'm trying to fight that narrative on one side of the spectrum. But on the other side, you have to realize we're all going to die. And so sitting around every day watching other people become successful is just not an option when you're aware of what you're capable of doing yourself. And so I'm, you know, it's great that you're fighting mediocrity. Tell us a little bit about your program, the FAM program. What is that all about?

Yeah, it's pretty funny. When I started the FAM program, basically what happened was I was working selling homes. I was the vice president, or I guess director of sales. It's actually my dad's company. It's a really, really big homebuilding company. They sold 400 homes a year and average home price is $350,000. So you do the math on how much revenue they're doing a year. A lot of A lot of the, a lot of the green. And my dad was like, hey, if you want to take it over, like, yeah, let's do it. Let's make it happen. And there was something inside of me that was like, yeah, but that's not what you're supposed to do, Kevin. And that's tough because, you know, feeling like you're letting your dad down, not carrying on that legacy and not growing what he created. and staying there, it was a tough decision. But one of the things that happened was my neighbor across the street was like, dude, I'm in sales, I'm struggling. I see you're doing well with sales. Can you give me some feedback? First time ever anyone had asked me for sales help. My team, I was the director of sales, so my team had to listen to me when I did sales trainings. They didn't ask me for help. It was like, I'm leading the meeting because I'm the director of sales. But the first person to actually ask me for help, and he came over and I was like, hey dude, what's, what's going on? Where are you getting stuck? He's like, this, this, and this. I'm like, okay, well try this, try this, try this. Grabbed a book off my shelf, or I think I ordered it for him. I was like, and I'll order you this book and read it. And he's like, okay, cool. I spent about an hour with him. And the next week he texts me, he's like, dude, I did what you said. I closed 5 deals this week, made more money in a week than I ever have in my life. And I was like, dude, that's awesome. Congrats. And then it kind of clicked for me. I'm like, maybe I could do something like this full-time because I'd always looked up to Darren Hardy and, you know, all the, all the success mentors and everything. I was like, man, it would be so fun to do something like that. That was the first time it ever like became a thought was maybe I could do something like that. Long story short, I like to tell the stories, but long story short, I ended up quitting and starting the Fight Against Mediocrity program. And the first thing I did when I quit is I found someone who'd already built a successful coaching company and I paid them $18,000 to teach me what to do. And that saved my bacon, dude, so much because they had already made the mistakes. And so they just taught me like, do this, do this, do this, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. And boom, you're good. And the whole goal of the Fight Against Mediocrity program at first was to help accountants become salespeople. And everyone laughs as soon as I say that. And I actually had one person say like, oh yeah, that makes sense. I'm like, no, it doesn't. Like, accountants are accountants for a reason and they do not want to do sales. Although I did sign up one accountant for the program, but 2 weeks after doing that and marketing it, and I was like, yeah, that's not it. And so I was like, okay, well, Let's just do— let's help people with sales. Sales is the number one function of a business. If a business does not sell, they will not make money. So I created a program around that and just started, you know, cold DMing people and being like, hey, let's hop on a call, see if it'd be a good fit. And since then, it's grown to where we are niched is we help solopreneurs who are struggling to make their first 6 figures. We help them make their first 6 figures in their business, and that's through sales, marketing, and actually a lot, like the first couple weeks of the program is actually just around your mindset around money and sales. Because I think a lot of times you can give someone the skills, but if their mindset isn't right, then it doesn't matter. So yeah, that's the program. And we actually just did a survey, if you'll let me put this little plug in.

Oh yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Surveyed all of our customers learning about them, figuring out where the niche was. And it was really cool because that was the niche, is helping them get their first 6 figures, hire their first employee, you know, feel like they're not just like trapped. And on average, when someone joins the program, they're making around $63,000 a year. And on average, at the end of the program— and it's like people are in the program for like 6 months to a year, and so it varies on the length, but on average, in that time period, they end up making $163,000. So after, which is really, really cool to see and, and just helping people. It's a— yeah, it's, it's been really fun. It's been— has it had its challenges, but it's been cool to help people grow.

Yeah. How much does it cost to get involved in the program?

So right now, the program, it's a membership. And it's between $7,000 and $15,000 for a 6-month membership.

Okay, cool. And people just hit you up on Instagram or go to your website?

Yeah.

All right. Now I want to— I have a couple more questions that I'm more curious about. You tell me if you want to pass on any of these. So growing up with a father who's so successful running a big company, you guys do the math. Did you have to create a chip on your shoulder knowing, like, a lot of people have this, a lot of successful people grow up in successful families and they don't have the ambition to go out and do anything special because they're just living a life where no matter what they do, their parents always protect them financially. But it sounds like you're helping people overcome financial scarcity quite often in the beginning of your program, yet maybe you didn't have to face that. I don't know, could you unpack that a little bit for us? Just give some thoughts there.

Yeah, I know it is interesting because if you look at my life, like, yeah, it's true, my dad's been super successful. We didn't ever have— like, my dad's very, very frugal. He grew up working on a farm from 2nd grade, like 2nd or 3rd grade. He worked on a farm, paid for his clothes, paid for sports, paid for everything, like insanely frugal. And he, uh, he served a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Alabama for 2 years. And when he got home His dad's like, hey, I think it's time that you move out. And didn't have any money, just got back. And he said that was one of the best things that had ever happened because it forced him to move out. He was, he was going to Weber State University and dropped out because he couldn't afford it. He says he couldn't afford it. He also says he didn't like it. So I think he just didn't like it. But he, he, he couldn't afford it. He was a janitor at the college, like trying to, trying to make money. And so he started Being an entrepreneur and, and went through the typical phases of starting different businesses, not making any money, just like learning, and then, uh, kind of hitting home building. And it's actually funny because his first 2 years he lost $200,000 of his father-in-law's business building homes because he didn't know what he was doing. Wow. And so that's when he— it clicked for him. He's like, I have to invest in myself and learn what successful home builders do. And now he does really well. But, um, yeah, I was like, I always asked my dad, um, I was like, if you are so grateful for the hardships you went through, why do you help us so much? Because he helps us kids a lot. Why do you help us so much? He's like, you know, I just, I want to try to make it a little bit easier for you, which is a paradox, right? Like, he had it so hard and it made him who he was. And he has such a kind heart of I don't want it to be as hard on you as it was for me. But that's what made him so successful. And so I don't know, um, but I think part of me was like— and I'm just, I'm just, I think for lack of a better way to describe it, I'm a little bit wired differently because I wanted to prove myself, for lack of a better term. Like the pride of just like, I want to prove myself. I don't want people at the end of my life to be like, Yeah. Well, Kevin, your dad handed you this, your dad handed you this, he handed you the company. Like, you're nothing. You don't do anything. Like, even saying that, that like hurts. You didn't do anything. And so for me, it was more of a, I need to prove myself, if for no one else than for me.

Yeah, well, that life would come with a lot of regret, right? Or life unlived mediocrity. So that makes sense. Do you think that Your faith, specifically LDS, has created this? Like, do you think it's contributed to this mindset? Because it seems like a 2-year mission, that's a big sacrifice, and everybody has to go through it, right? So it just creates this, I don't know, almost like this, uh, drive to work or this willpower to get out of bed and do it that a lot of people don't have. Because, you know, the traditional kind of Ameri— the average American goes to school, take— takes on a bunch of debt, does zero service work. And yeah, the path that you went through sounds just so much more fulfilling and more closely related to personal development.

It's no like secret that if you take an 18-year-old kid who doesn't have life figured out and you take them and you put them somewhere, especially a third world country, I served in Mexico, so I had to learn a new language, and you say, hey, your job for the next 2 years is to learn the language and go talk to as many people as possible to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like, that's hard. And so doing that, there's, uh, so a lot of the— Utah is very high population of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and a lot of them serve missions. And so Coming back from an experience where for 2 years you created your own economy in the sense of like you're just drumming up, like knocking doors, talking to people, creating your own schedule, you know, budgeting, buying your own food. Like you don't get paid for any of this, you're just out serving. Um, when you come back from that and someone says, hey, like, do you want to start your own business? It's like, well, I just did that for 2 years and it was way harder than starting my own business. So yeah, yeah, why not? Do that. And so I think it builds a lot of confidence in, in your skills and your ability to, to make stuff happen. And for those that do it right, I think it also builds a lot of faith in that God will take care of you when things get hard.

Yeah, I think about that sometimes too. I was raised in the Catholic Church, and what's great about religion is that at least while you're on this planet, like, there is no final answer. And I guess what I mean is, you know, if, if somebody in your family dies, God forbid, or if something terrible happens to you, like you have your faith to fall back on. But today there's a lot of ideology that has an endpoint, you know, like political ideology or sports ideology where your team loses and it's over and you, you fall apart or your political party that you're affiliated to loses and you fall apart. And with religion, you always have something to fall back on, uh, which I think is amazing. You know, a great set of morals and ethics and a great community to fall back on as well. A lot of people are out there riding solo that aren't part of a faith-based community. So I think that's important too.

Yeah, I know for sure. I mean, Just everything's changing so fast in the world. If you have nothing that's like stable and that you can trust and lean back on, principles that you can lean back on, you can get confused really fast.

All right, we're getting towards the end of our time. What's next for Kevin Karchner? Tell us a little bit about what you have going on. You already mentioned the book. You already mentioned, did you mention on camera that your conference is in May?

No, I didn't. So yeah, that's the big push right now is We're hosting our 2nd annual Create Your Own Economy Conference, May 18th through the 20th in Salt Lake City, Utah at the Salt Palace Convention Center. We're capping it at 200 people. And that's the next big thing. You know, throwing an event is a labor of love because it is a lot of work and a lot of stress and thought and preparation goes into it. But I was talking to someone today actually, and they're like, I really want to make it work, but I need to find a babysitter and this and this. I think the special things about events is not only did the organizer of the event with their team put a ton of effort into it, but they're also bringing together amazing speakers who also put in a bunch of effort to prepare for it. And then you have people who, you know, travel and babysitters and hotels and whatever put in a ton of effort to get there and you have this magical 3-day event of just everyone sacrificing time, money, energy to be there and to make a difference in their lives. And you just can't replicate that anyway. So that's, that's the big thing coming up.

Yeah. And I can, I can give you a little testimonial for last year's event. It was so much fun to be at and you surround yourself with such an amazing community and people are part of the, uh, people that are part of your FAM program, but also just the other speakers and everything. So it's such an electric environment and there's There's nothing better than being in a room full of people who want to help and support each other and give free advice and hang out and tell stories. Like, it's just, I don't know, you do a really nice job with it. So that's going to be a lot of fun.

That's kind of you. Yeah. Thank you. It's, it's, I kid you not when I say it's a labor of love. Conferences are a lot of work, but they're way fun.

Yeah. All right, cool. For people that want to learn more about you, pick up a copy of your book, learn about the FAM program, learn about the conference? Where do they go? What do they do?

Thanks, dude. I appreciate it. So you can check out my Instagram is where I'm most active, and then all the links are in there. My username is just Kevin Karcher, my name. Um, I do have a fancy book website where you can get my book for free, uh, if you just cover shipping and handling. And the URL is talkischeapbook.com. So yeah, they can grab it there, but my Instagram has all the links for everything else.

All right, cool, man. We'll end it there. Any final word for the Book Thinkers family?

I would just say, you know, you go through life and if you can connect with a few people who just have a really good heart, are really kind, are really ambitious, are great, you know, givers of who they are and what they know. If you can surround yourself with a couple of those, then you've lived a good life. And I would just say Nick is one of those people. He's just such a good dude, inspiring, loving, giving, you know, he's just got it right. And so for the Book Thinker family that you're on here listening to Nick, I would just say you're in a good place. And to make sure you stay here for the rest of your life.

Appreciate you, man. Thank you.