Embrace Failure and Succeed with Laura Casselman

So I think if I can spread the message and I can break it down in a way that people accept it, and if I can spend more time normalizing failure, because that is the truth. Anyone that succeeds has failed over and over and over again. So if I can help normalize failure and that everyone— can you imagine if for one week everybody on social media only posted their failures? Think about, like, how—

You should set that up.

Yeah, right? Like, there was no more of just the highlight reel. And I'm not saying the highlight reel is not great. It's great. We want to share our wins. But if we just made failure completely normal, because so many people go to the gym the first week of the new year and they're embarrassed, they don't like their bodies, they don't know what they're doing, so they're even more embarrassed. Because I'm like, they're like, there are these people that have been here, by the way, for 10 years, and they're experts at lifting. And then it's someone, it's their first week, and they feel like they should know everything the expert knows. You shouldn't. You're not even failing. You're showing up for yourself. But stop being embarrassed. Stop feeling like it's a failure. This is normal.

Laura Kasselman, welcome back to the Book Thinkers Podcast. Let's start in Dubai. So, you just got back from this trip, shared the stage with Tai Lopez. I want to hear all about it.

Yeah, so it was my first time in Dubai. I've been a lot of places to speak and teach and never Dubai. And I don't think I had expectations. I was just ready for the event, excited to see Ty. I hadn't seen him in some years, but it blew my mind. I loved everything about it. I got so excited every day. It was like when I first moved to New York City and the energy of that city where you just feel that everyone around you is chasing a dream, I was ready. Like, I was back in hustle mode. It's great.

Oh, that's amazing. So maybe you'll have a second property in Dubai?

Yes, that's the goal. I'm going back in February to incorporate, purchase, um, get it all. Oh, wow.

Okay, I'm so jealous. So we have interviewed actually a couple of authors on this podcast from Dubai, and I've heard nothing but amazing things. So how did this opportunity come to fruition? I mean, I've been following Tai Lopez since his Lamborghini in my garage days.

Me too. So Tai was a user of JVZoo, has been multiple times throughout his career. He does a good affiliate program. So just through my other company, we run Tai's ads. So through His media and his ads there. And then he said, hey, I want you to run ads for this event I'm doing in Dubai. And we were like, whoa, we're actually going to be there while you're doing this. And he was like, great, I want you to speak. And that was done because I was already speaking at another event the same week. So the timing just worked out perfectly. And then I expect to see Tai coming back on JVZoo in the next few months as well.

What was it like kind of sharing that stage with Tai Lopez?

So again, I've known Ty for a while, but Ty's a brilliant mind, and like most brilliant minds, he, he has a lot coming through that he wants to share. So it's kind of like, I feel like if it's your first time being around Ty and you're not used to him, you're just like following things in the air and trying to grasp onto whatever you can. I've been around him enough, and many people that listen to him and follow him on social media will know. A lot of the topics he likes to speak about. He's very into genetics, predispositions, where people gravitate. He's nonjudgmental, which is lovely. He thinks there's a reason why people are the way they are, and that they need to realize who they are, what motivates them. And once they lock those things in, then they can rise to their fullest potential.

I love that. What are some of the, like, the, the top lessons that you feel like you learned on this trip? Maybe about yourself, about others? Like, what are the top lessons?

So I already knew, and I think I've kind of shared this with you guys, that I was ready for bigger things. Um, I've kind of felt a little stagnant, which is hard. It's hard to say I own multiple companies that I run and they're successful, and then I'm a CEO of an international company and it's super successful, and I published a book or had a book published and it's done really well. and I feel like I'm unsatisfied and I want more and I'm stagnant. It's— on one hand, it can sound, well, you're greedy and you can never be happy. But I think that there are types of people that really truly aren't. We're not greedy. We want to rise to our fullest potential. And if we are constantly learning And maximizing what we learn, then the the top just keeps rising. And so our fullest potential never ends. If that makes sense, I'm content. I'm happy, but I want more. And so for me, it was just I felt all that energy in Dubai. I was around so many people that are just impressive and happy and doing what they want. I will never call it work-life balance, but they are. They are having that harmony of, I'm grinding, but I'm also at the beach, and then I'm grinding again, and then I'm at the gym because I love it, and I'm traveling the world and I'm seeing everything. And I just was like, yes, sign me right back up.

Oh, I love that. What do you think is the next iteration of Laura Castleman? Like, what's next for you? What do you feel like you're— you said you're not You haven't, you don't feel like you'll ever really reach your potential, but what's the next step in your potential?

So I am really gonna be focused on sharing my knowledge and helping other people upscale. So that's my 2024 focus, whether I'm speaking or teaching or selling my own coaching and trainings, it's gonna be share as much knowledge as I can, help as many people as I can to upscale and make more money in their own lives so they too can experience this world.

Well, just like, just like you were sort of talking about a minute ago, I think one of the main reasons to attend events or to speak at events is to be put into a place where you feel really good energy. And then that energy allows you to make bigger decisions and take bigger steps in your life. And so it's not necessarily the content of what somebody is teaching from stage that gets you there, but it's being around that energy. It's like, it's intangible. But when you're there, you know what it feels like, it allows you to be a bigger version of yourself. And so, like, I'm just curious, a little bit more about Dubai. So when you say you're going back and you're incorporating, is there some sort of 6-month window after application and then you become a resident or something like that?

So there's a lot of steps depending on how much money you're putting into their country, but I've done a lot of research on visas and golden visas and was leaning heavily towards Portugal, which is also a beautiful country. But I think for the entrepreneur within me, Dubai makes a lot more sense for me, but it makes it easy to— once you incorporate and once you make a certain purchase level, which I believe is around the 2 million, um, AED— is that the right— dirham? Dirham. Then you can then get a lot of benefits for visas, including, you know, I can then bring my daughter and sponsor her for when I travel and when I stay over there. And honestly, spending winters over there sounds lovely right now.

Well, I'm up in Boston, so I feel you on that. What's $2 million of their currency translate to in dollars?

I think it's around $700,000.

Okay.

Yeah. So not a high purchase.

Yeah.

And then what's the travel time like? Are there directs from South Carolina?

Not from Myrtle Beach. No, from New York. Probably from Boston too, but definitely from New York. I flew from Toronto direct over last time because it's normally an easy trip to Toronto. I think I'm going to hit DC or New York this time, which is also a direct flight from Myrtle. So I would just have one layover then all the way.

Yeah, it'd be easier if you were in Portugal full-time and then just wanted to fly over. You'd be halfway already.

It's true. But being, being a US citizen and having family here, and I love the USA, I do. So yeah, well, I love having access to the world as well though.

Yeah, that's amazing. Well, I think there's something special to putting your— putting yourself in a place where there's a lot of business opportunity and positive energy and things like that. So I'm excited to see what you end up doing. Are Are there a lot of like US expats, people living from the US or all over the world? Like, what was the blend of people that you interacted with?

All over the world. I found a lot of people from Europe were there as well. There's some Europe, Russia, Ukraine, US, so many people. It just was lovely. I think I sat at a table of maybe 20 people at a lunch that Ty held and invited a few of us to, and I don't think Anyone. There were not 2 people from the same country there.

I think it's so cool that you're kind of in this next, your next phase of life, I guess, this next iteration of you, which is really amazing. Now, you're talking about teaching people and sharing your knowledge. Like, what are some of the struggles that you feel like you've mastered, and what are some that you are still maybe learning?

Well, I feel like I've absolutely mastered planning my way into success.

Hmm.

And understanding the process of failure and the role it plays into anything you want to achieve. So that is one thing that I consistently work on with my teams. Proper planning, how to execute on these plans, how do we achieve the goals instead of just having these grand goals in place and always feeling like we're falling short. So I know that I do that well and I know we discuss our failures and Yes, from a company standpoint, I have to say, hey, we failed. We failed this time. But I also have to be able to identify when we're gonna fail in advance so that the failure doesn't make us fail for the whole year, so that we can pick up the ball early. And sometimes I do let the team have a little bit of a crush. You know, we're landing on our bottoms so that we all understand the feeling of it, and everybody becomes more aware and can identify earlier. That's a teaching process, and it's important. And I, I think I've really mastered that art now. But for me now, one of the things is I teach, I teach it, and I do it to a certain level. But I realize I don't do it to its fullest extent, and that is taking a backseat, being overly polite in business. I wanna say it's because I'm female, but I don't think it's necessarily that. I think there are some of us that are just naturally We, we don't wanna burn bridges too soon. We don't wanna upset people if we don't have to. And so we're too cautious. But it's really not rude, and it's not burning a bridge, and it's not upsetting someone if we just either say no or say yes to ourselves and just step forward. And for me, I always have been like the person who asks for what I need. But what I have failed at is when I know it's gonna upset someone if I move past them too fast. It's being like, let me also consider their feelings. But really, I have one child. I need to consider the way my life and my choices impact her in every decision I make, but that's it. So I'm not doing bad things. I'm not negatively impacting people. So it's okay for me to say yes and keep going at the speed I want to go at.

It's really interesting because you've talked to us about, you know, and I— you talk about in your book too about the, the importance of being selfish. And it sounds like you're kind of just at that next level of having to be like, okay, now I have to be selfish in a little bit of a different way than I used to. It's not just, oh, being selfish and working out what's good for me, but it's like taking that next step and saying, hey, I might have to leave some people that are high up behind, which is crazy. And I can't— I don't even know if I can imagine that.

Well, and, you know, you— it's so— we think of selfish as a negative thing. And when we're selfish, as if like there's a limited amount of food and we've got this whole group of people that needs to eat, But I'm going to eat it all and just be really stuffed and feel like it's Thanksgiving Day. That's selfish. But then there's selfish in, I'm going to take care of me so I can be the best version of myself and give the best version of myself to everyone around me. And that's not selfish in the way we generally think about it. That's saying, I'm doing what I need to to take care of myself so I can give back to the fullest potential.

Well, without answering the question I'm going to ask, I will give some context. Luke and I were just at a client filming with somebody who runs a billion-dollar company and it was a small kind of intimate group setting and the subject of like, why are you coaching and teaching such a small group with your time as opposed to reaching like millions of people on social or like from the stage? And he said, because a smaller group of people who have been with you for a long time, you can really get into the nuances and that's where these big changes happen as compared to just standing on stage and having to keep things at a high level. So, I'm curious, like same kind of question to you. I don't know if you would answer it in the same way, but like, why are you focused now on coaching even though you're running successful businesses and the CEO of a huge international company? Like, why is one-on-one coaching all of a sudden something that you're focused on?

Well, I feel the more that I can share the things that I know anyone can do, the more people can get the ball rolling so that they can hire like the man you were just talking about. They can then hire him and afford to have that more one-on-one small group to grow to the next level. But there are so many people, Nick, you know this, that have just a New Year's resolution that they've already abandoned. You know, it's not even the end of January because it seems too big, it seems too hard. And I, you know, I misspoke. In hindsight, I realized this when I was at Ty's event. And so I said it the right way, but I misspoke at your event. I said that the way that I do things is so easy, anyone can do it. But the reason— but the downfall is that it's so easy, most people won't. That's incorrect. It's so simple, anyone can do it. But simple things aren't necessarily easy. Being disciplined, as you know, and what you're currently doing with 75 Hard— is this what it's called, 75 Hard?

Yes. Yep. Day 51 today.

Yes. But it's not easy. It's, it's a difficult task to tell yourself it's Boston, it's freezing already. My body tells me I need to warm it up, but I'm gonna get in an ice bath. That's difficult. So being disciplined is difficult. I can't speak from experience, but I can assume that being on your deathbed full of regret is more difficult than doing the daily actions that help you achieve the things you truly want in life. So I think if I can spread the message and I can break it down in a way that people accept it, and if I can spend more time normalizing failure, because that is the truth. Anyone that succeeds has failed over and over and over again. So if I can help normalize failure and that everyone— can you imagine if for one week everybody on social media only posted their failures? Think about like how—

You would set that up.

Yeah, right? Like there was no more of just the highlight reel. And I'm not saying the highlight reel is not great. It's great. We want to share our wins. But if we just made failure completely normal, because so many people go to the gym the first week of the new year and they're embarrassed, they don't like their bodies. They don't know what they're doing, so they're even more embarrassed because I'm like, they're like, there are these people that have been here, by the way, for 10 years and they're experts at lifting. And then it's someone, it's their first week and they feel like they should know everything the expert knows. You shouldn't. You're not even failing. You're showing up for yourself. But stop being embarrassed. Stop feeling like it's a failure. This is normal.

So would you mind sharing maybe a recent failure, like a really big recent failure that you've had? And how you got yourself out of that, out of the negative spiral that a lot of us get into when we do fail?

I'm like, gosh, I failed so much, I don't even know what to say. And I think that's the thing though, it's like, I don't necessarily— I don't look at my failures as a failure. That's the thing is that sometimes even in a company called— I wish I could think of something specific. And as soon as we end this conversation, I will be like, why didn't I know about that one or think that one? But I feel as a mom a lot, that's, that's reality. There are times that in the way I choose to speak to my daughter at the time, hindsight, I realize, oh, it could have been so much better received. She wouldn't have cried had I used a different language, a different word. Had I been able to— sometimes as a parent, we go, we get scared. So we go, and that in itself scares our children. And so I have gotten better. Like, there are times that I've done that, and I'm like, boy, did I mess that up, because that instills fear in our children when we should— we want to have them safely push boundaries, right? We don't want our children to grow up into teenagers and adults that don't know how to push a boundary and see how far they can go. And so I'm constantly seeing things that I didn't do right as a mom. But I can do better. And I think, man, it's hard when you're a parent and it's hard when you care that much. And moms, I know because I'm a mom, we can really guilt ourselves. I don't know how you feel about that, Luke. Like, do you really guilt yourself at times?

Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, it's funny you mentioned that last night. I, I lost it a little bit. Not that I'm not a super angry person, but I lost it a little bit at my son because he was being really loud and I'm like, Ezra, shut up, you know? And, uh, I instantly felt remorse about it. And thankfully, I'm at this point in my life where I notice what I do and then I'll go and I'll say, listen, I'm sorry. I was stressed out about this. I wasn't paying attention to you. And my kids have done a good job at understanding that. But yeah, every day I always doubt that I'm doing the right thing and that I mess up all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's another thing is as parents, we fail and we learn. Same as in business, we fail and we learn. And as long as we learn the lesson, it's not a failure. As long as we don't stop right then permanently, it's not a failure. Sometimes we do need to take a step back, walk away from the situation. But you, you said shut up. I said shit in front of my daughter, and y'all know I curse like a sailor, but not in front of my kid. I do not curse. And then the next 2 days she properly used oh shit in the right context. She's 3, and she just dropped it, and I had to finally say This is, this is when parents or adults are limited in vocabulary, and we should all be embarrassed to say such a thing. I should have been embarrassed to say that in front of you. In fact, I am now. And she was like, oh. Then I also had to go to her school and say, if my daughter says this, it's 100% on me. I failed as a mom. We're working through it together.

Oh, I love that. It's so funny. They latch onto those. It's like you're trying to teach them a good word or something good, and it takes forever, but you just slip up and say shit one time, and it's just on repeat. They just again and again and again. You're like, oh.

It's on repeat again and again. But then, like, at the same time, like, just the week before, my daughter— when I was in Dubai, I was FaceTiming with her, and she's like, Mom, I had a sentimental feeling. She's 3. I was like, oh really? Tell me about this. And then she totally explained it to me, understood. So Yes, our kids do latch on to the things that we shouldn't say. They also latch on to every— all the love we give them, all the things we teach them. And that's what we have to remember. We're not failing as parents. We have moments of failure so that we can be better.

And that's what it is to be a human in reality.

That's right.

So I'm curious about this. I don't know if I've ever actually asked you this, but why did you want to be a parent? Like, why did you decide that this is something I want to add to my plate on top of being a CEO and all the other extraordinary things that you're doing? Why did you want to add motherhood onto that list?

One, I have always wanted to be a mom. I knew that. Like, I love family. I love my family. I wanted to keep my family going. And I want to be the matriarch of my family, which I guess I am at this point in time. You know, I take care of my parents. I'm there. A lot of the planning and decision-making in my extended family is up to me. But I have Much different ideas of what it would be like. I knew I wasn't ready. My career was taking off. I danced, you know, as a professional dancer. Then I came into business and I became an executive and things were happening. And I, I pushed it as long as I could push it. So early 40s for me having a baby. But whoa, I always said I would have as many kids as I could handle. I didn't care if I birthed them, if I adopted them. Y'all, I'm stuck at one. I capped out at one child. There will be no more little Lauras. There will be no more. I will not adopt. I will stick with dogs. Humans are hard.

They are. Well, I think, you know, especially when you, when you, uh, have someone like Dagny and she's so perfect in so many ways, it's like, why, why even, you know, mess with that?

I said I see how people are tricked into having 2 and 3 after the first one, but I know I got the best I'm gonna get, right? She's the best I'm gonna produce. So I'm gonna stop right there. But also, it's hard. I, you know, I think I really try hard to be a great mom. And I've said it before, I'm a good mom. I'm a really good mom. I'm not great. I see other people who are great. I try to learn from them. My nanny recently told me, like, that she tries to take note of the things I do with my daughter because she respects and loves the way I treat her so much. And it felt great. But then I thought, God, she just hasn't seen a really great mom, and I'm going to keep her away from all of them so she never knows how bad I am. I'm kidding. But, you know, we do our best. And I think if we just love our kids and we show them love, then that's, that's good. That's, you know, love gives a foundation that can't be ever removed.

Yeah, we interview so many people on this podcast, and a lot of them tell origin stories. And it was about, you know, being mistreated by their parents or growing up in a rough situation. And I've just personally always— I can't identify with it because for my parents, like, I just want to recreate what they did for us. I'm one of 4 boys and I really just like— I think I have the best parents, right? And so it's great that your nanny has been able to see your relationship with your daughter and say like, oh, this is what a family should look like. And that's the right expectation, I suppose, or right piece of feedback as the matriarch that you want to hear. So, I think that's amazing. Laura, you brought up, you briefly mentioned it, you talked about deathbed and regrets. I don't think we've talked to you much about mortality before. So, let's go there because I love this subject. How often do you think about death? And have your thoughts about death shifted over time, having a daughter and things like that?

Yeah. So, I think you go through your youth being invincible or thinking you're invincible, right? And there are people like me that love to test limits. You know, if we can jump out of a plane, let's Let's do it. Bungee jumping, no problem. Those are the things I love to do because I love to feel fear in bits. And fear is not something I experienced a lot until becoming a mother. Now I feel it all the time. But I never really thought about my own death until my father became ill, which I talk about in my book. The thought of losing a parent It's tough, and I'm fortunate that I have them both still. But there was months that we just felt like it could happen tomorrow, and trying to prepare myself for that was hard. But also then bringing a child into this world and feeling like now I can't just make crazy wild decisions. Like when I was in Dubai, all these people were going skydiving, and I was like, oh yeah, no, I can't do that. Everyone's like, is it a medical condition? I'm like, motherhood, it's a medical condition. Yes. But that's the thing is that I just feel like it's my responsibility for her to be here and to make sure I'm safe. So I don't fault anyone that's a parent and jumps out of a plane. If that's you and that's what you want to do, cool. But for me, like, just even riding like in the sand dunes in the desert, And being up at the top of one and the whole car just sliding down and you don't know if it's going to flip. I was sweaty-palmed then. That was enough fear for me. That was— I didn't need to jump out of a plane too. I needed to be like, get home safe to my daughter.

Yeah, I don't even have kids yet. That's in the plans for the next few years. But I'm already noticing that I'm starting to become more risk-averse. I mean, I've jumped out of planes and bungee jumped and all that kind of crazy stuff. And my appetite for all of that is going down a little bit, just slowly going down over time.

And age does something of making you realize you are more fragile than you believed. And it's funny because there'll be times that I'm sure you're like me, you're in the gym and you're telling yourself like, I can do it, even though it does feel like your heart's going to explode. You're like, this is mind over matter. I can do this because I do that all the time. And then sometimes I finish and I'm like, Laura, you're in your 40s now. People have heart attacks in their 40s.

Yeah, I'll tell a funny story real quick. We were at a client— Luke and I were at a client filming 50 days ago. I think I had just started 75 Hard. I was on day like 2 or 3. And our client's husband, he had said, hey, I know you're doing 75 Hard. Do you want to go for a trail run with me tomorrow morning? And I said, sure, why not? And I am not in cardio shape at all. And I showed up and we did a 5-mile run up and down these hills. And towards the end of it, we're an hour in. And I looked down at my watch and my heart rate was 185, which is like way too high. And I said to him, I said, what's your heart rate? He has 20-something years on me and he's like, 135. I'm like, we're at different places here. Let's stop and walk for a minute. And that was like the first time I've ever really thought like, geez, like I might actually have an issue here if I continue to push myself. So, I totally get what you're saying there.

It's wild how it happens and it happens to all of us.

Is, uh, is death something you fear? Do you fear it at all? Or are you, are you ready for it? Like—

I'm not ready for it. And, you know, I think I've told you guys before, my grandmother's 101. The women in my family live long lives. So I look at it as I'm not even halfway through my life yet all the time. We all know I could get in a car wreck tomorrow. But I live my life where I'm proud of the decisions I make. I'm proud of where I am. I would not regret having— like, there's nothing to this point in time that I would regret having not done. That being said, I would love to be here a lot longer and do a lot more and live a lot more and experience what this world has to offer.

I love that outlook. So many people, unfortunately, uh, in today's world and society don't have that feeling at all. It was— there was this reel that I saw on Instagram, and it was basically like this person had died and they were in heaven, and the angel or God or universe was asking, oh, do you want to go back for another round, basically? And they said something like, oh no, I'm good. I'll pass. I'll pass. I've experienced it. And it like misunderstood it. And put them— like, was going to put them back to Earth. But it was interesting, like, you go down and look at all the comments and everyone was like, everyone was like, oh man, I don't want another round of this. I don't want to keep going. And that just— it's like reading that, like, really, like, broke my heart. I'm like, oh, the amount of people— because especially, like, we're living in such an amazing time in history. The ability to, I mean, work from home, the ability that we don't have to really do, like, hard, hard labor in our jobs anymore. There's not, like, Slavery, there's still slavery around the world, but that's gone away in a big way. And like, there's so many good things about living today, and we're so lucky and blessed. So what would you— what would— what advice would you have for people struggling with that, that feeling of wanting just to be over with life?

One, get off social media. Get off social media and don't get back on until you have found your peace. Because social media is— it's— I mean, listen, it has its positives, but the majority of the time it's negative. The overwhelming majority of the time. And there's so much science behind this. That's why I said I wish everybody would share their failures. But even if you look at the TikTok studies they've been doing recently, which are TikToks and, you know, geared towards people in their 20s and younger, based off of their geographical location, of where the account is open. TikTok has spent a lot of time in making sure they show them what they want them to see, to make them believe certain things and feel certain things. It's very hard to convince someone that's in it that you have been programmed to believe these things and to feel this way, and the world is not that bad. But the best thing I can say for anyone is just block it all, remove it from your phone. block it on your computer and just go live your life and interact with other human beings.

Yeah, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's, it's a lot about the not comparing your life to other people's supposed lives and living and being grateful for the life that you do have. It's interesting, I was, um, on this past weekend, I was, uh, sitting in my house with my family and I was like thinking about all the stuff I need to do and all the things I want to do and You know, just totally out of the moment. And then like, I took a deep breath. I was like, wait, wait, wait, Luke, I'm right here. Like, I'm right here. Look at these beautiful kids. Look at my beautiful wife in the kitchen. Like, amazing. And when you, when you're able to get yourself into this present moment and actually reflect on what you have and what you've been given, even if it's not that much compared to other people, like, it's still absolutely Incredible. And I always think of that when I get in those moments. I always think of that stat, which is, it's like crazy, but it's like you have a 1 in 14 trillion chance of being here and living a life on this planet. And when you think about that, it's like you won the lottery. You won the lottery to be here. And then not only that, but you, you can get on social media, you can get on the internet, you have access to all these things. It's incredible. So I just wish more people would, I don't know, be able to get that perspective and I think something that, you know, Nick and I are really passionate about is trying to amplify those positive voices on social media because they exist and they're there. And people like you, if people follow you, it's like all of a sudden those limiting beliefs that they have, they can start to overcome them. Like, people listening to this, follow Laura Castleman. Reprogram your mind to think more positively about yourself and about your life because you only have this one and you should be so grateful for it. Anyway, rant over. I'm sorry, I'm taking over the— taking over the show. No, I love it.

I think too, though, you know, that in particular, because I can speak about Americans, we're, we're in the USA. And so I can speak about this. When I travel, I hear all the time how Americans don't travel, which is true in mass. And a lot of people say, yeah, well, I'm not the CEO of a company. I don't make the kind of money to travel. What many people don't realize is that one, If you just do a little research, and I even sell, I think, a, I think a guide called like 30 Days to Paris or something like that, or maybe it's like 90 days, I can't remember. But if you do a little research, you can get a credit card that accumulates points and you just pay your normal expenses that you would normally pay straight from your bank. You're going to not put anything else on that credit card. You're going to pay off that credit card at the end of each month in full. But then you're going to get all these points where you can truly buy that international flight, which seems expensive, but once you get across the ocean, it's so inexpensive to travel from country to country to country and see the world and experience it. And a lot of times, if we just break the monotony of what we think is life, then we see the doors just open to the world. And it's beautiful traveling. It's beautiful seeing the way other people the way they live and experience things. And I would really encourage anyone, if you don't know how to do this, if you feel stuck, if you feel like travel is something you can't do, I promise you it is. And, you know, you can reach out to me and I will help you figure out the right credit card to get. But I'm going to stress, you only pay for your normal expenses and then you pay it in full each month.

Yeah, I love that advice. Rachel and I do that all the time. We just booked round-trip flights using only credit card points to Europe.

So I can attest. I did the math last time, you know, I, I, it was nothing. I used 139,000 points for business class tickets round trip, and then I still have 4 million points left.

Yeah, maybe you can share some of those. No, I'm just kidding. Um, we're going to wrap up. Uh, next time we talk with you, I want to open the, the can of worms that you started talking about, about TikTok and Sort of the, I don't know how people are being slowly convinced to think certain things and get outraged at other things. And I'm totally, I totally believe in that as well. So yeah, we could talk a little bit more about how to manage it and how to protect yourself from it. Because I think that, yeah, those conversations aren't had enough because it's a little bit out there and it's a little bit risky. And I like that kind of stuff. So anyway, Laura, thank you so much.

Well, I'll bring the stats forward. So it's not a, it's not just an opinion.

Yeah. Well, I'm excited. I'm excited. So Luke, I'll let you wrap things up, but that'll be a fun next conversation. Thank you, Laura, for coming on again today.

Yeah, for sure. And I also just want to attest to the credit card thing. You know, there was a period of time, it's always embarrassing to admit, but there was a period of time I had a coffee shop that was doing nothing. Like, I mean, my days, they were like $30 days some days. Thankfully, I built it to a lot more than that. But when I started out, it was a real struggle. And during that time, I had put everything on a credit card. And what was great about it is I still got weekends away. I was dirt poor, but I still got weekends away because I just paid my bills to that credit card, did everything I could to pay it off. And it's a great hack that nobody talks about because I think we often look at people like, oh, they're wealthy. It's like, no, no, you don't have to be wealthy anymore to travel. You literally can utilize a credit card. Just pay it off. But it's amazing. So, that's just such a great piece of advice that I wanted to reiterate. All right. I want to ask this question as my final one. Oh, actually, before I do that, tell people where they can go to find out a little bit more about you. And obviously we'll link it all in the show notes too.

Sure. You can go to my website, lauracastleman.com. And from there, all my social is linked. But if you're staying off social media, just follow me on my website. Boom.

Perfect. It's easy these days. All right. So this is my last question. You're magically 18 today. You're starting with all the knowledge you've accumulated, but none of the money or the connections. What are 1 to 3 things that you would do to get to the level of success that you're at now within, let's say, 2 to 5 years? It's a very hypothetical question.

So I'm 18.

18.

But still Laura.

But still Laura. Yes.

Okay. So I can tell you I'm stubborn. I wouldn't change the path I was on then. I would still want to be a professional dancer and I would still be trying to be a Radio City Rockette. And we all know that I'm gonna nail it. Like, I'm gonna become a Radio City Rockette. Um, the only thing I would change is that if— because I've got the knowledge I've got now, is realizing how important the connections you make are and keeping in contact with those people consistently.

Well, quick follow-up on that. Do you leverage like a personal CRM or anything?

I don't. I have everybody in my phone personally. I know that as a tech CEO I should, but like, for me, I like— if it's a Rockette that I dance with, then it— maybe her name is Emily, so it says Emily Rocks, so I know that she's from the Rockettes. You know, like how I have you as Book Thinkers, it's the way I'll always know you. But I have everybody right in my Rolodex with notes of what I need to remember about them. I try to keep in my notes part of the phone, like Who is their wife? Who is their dog? Whatever. So I can ask.

Well, Laura, it's always such a joy talking to you. I can't wait to talk to you again, whether that's on here or off here. Love, love following your journey. Thanks for coming on today.

Thanks for having me.