John Gallagher on How to Break Your Addiction to Comfort

I often talk about this in the form of when somebody asks me how I'm doing and if I'm sharp, if my mind is ready, it's, you know, I'm better than I deserve to be. That's grace. But I'm not as good as I want to be. That's that personal growth side of I want to continuously get better. So I don't want to beat myself up for not being there, but I want to recognize that I am on a journey to get there. And, you know, the benefit, the fulfillment And life, I believe, is usually on the other side of doing something hard. I think if we just step on cruise control and say we're going to retire when we're 62 and then sit down and not do anything anymore, I hope I don't get there. God willing, I'll keep my health and be able to not use the word retire in my future.

Mr. John Gallagher, welcome to The Book Thinkers. Welcome to the Life-Changing Books Podcast. We are here today to talk about your brand-new book, 8 Common Practices of Uncommon Leaders. And the origin story for how this book was created is incredibly unique, especially for this Book Thinkers audience. Why don't you tell us where the inspiration for the book came from and how it came to be?

Absolutely. Well, and again, even as your listeners read into it, when they do read it, they'll recognize you wrote the foreword, but you were a big part of that story that was the catalyst to officially get this going. I go back to really a little bit before the story, November 2024. I have a small group of guys, we call ourselves RTA or Raise the Average, and we were talking one day about ultimately we'd been working out and we communicate how we've been getting in shape and losing weight or how much we were working out. And we said one day that we needed to Do something hard. And we couldn't figure out exactly what we want to do. So I just Googled at the right point in time, like, you know, old guys, 50 plus, something hard to do for them when they've been working out. And a Spartan Race came up on the screen as I was Googling, as we were talking on phone, and we signed up for a Spartan Race. Fast forward just a few months, we ran our first 10K, came across the finish line, and we're like, wow, that was pretty good. And they only give you one piece. They give you a third of a pie. at the Spartan Race. They're like, what's that all about? So, well, if you want the other 2 pieces, you got to run the other 2 races. So we said, okay, let's do it. So we decided at that point in time we're going to go for the trifecta that year in 2025. Fast forward to November, we're getting ready to go, and you invited me to the Book Thinkers Conference. I'm interviewing Dr. Jill Schulman on my podcast, and we're talking about The Bravery Effect, and she's going to be a speaker at your conference. She said, are you coming up for the Stadion the day before the conference starts, the 5K Boston Stadion. I said, not really. I got to run the half marathon the next weekend. I don't think I need to. She says, you're worthless and weak if you don't sign up for that and come up and run that race. So, I was guilted into running it, but I'm glad that I did. And then, that morning, when it gets to the real catalyst of the story— sorry for making it too long— you step up on the stage and say, I want you all to do something different with this activity. You're going to hear from a lot of speakers, authors, podcasters. and understand, but I want you to write a book. And I had said much of my lifetime, I want to write a book soon, I'll write a book one day, I'll write a book. But there was something about the way you said it that, that made me think, you know what, I am going to do it. I'm going to write a book from this activity right here. And I use that Book Thinkers Workbook and ultimately compiled the 8 practices from the speakers that day and correlated them to many stories in my life that I've been through over the past so many years that led to those— that book coming out just about 10 months later. And again, you wrote the foreword to it. You were a great value add to that as well. And it's been quite a process.

Well, John, that story was not too long, so don't worry. I think the audience will find this fascinating and we can dive into a couple of different pieces of it. My first question is, what was your favorite part of the Boston Fenway Park Stadium Spartan Race?

Well, usually what folks will say is the end when you cross the finish line. That's your favorite part when you get it done. But I got to tell you, I appreciated when I got up to the top of the wall. And the first time I— because I'd been in Fenway Park for a couple of baseball games before. I've had clients in Boston where I've traveled up there, not regularly, but certainly been to a couple games. But to stand atop the wall in Fenway Park and look out both out into the city but also inside of that stadium was phenomenal. And frankly, it also made my feet hurt a little bit because I have a little bit of a fear of heights. But I would say that was the favorite part, the view from the wall and what, you know, what was there from a history standpoint. Absolutely.

Yeah, my palms always get a little sweaty in height situations too while you're talking about it. If I ever get one of those videos of people Climbing a skyscraper or jumping on beams in a construction site on my Instagram feed, my palms instantly get sweaty.

Mine do as well, but my feet literally hurt when I see those pictures or videos. It's crazy. I'm like, I can just— I can sense it. It's really odd.

Have you ever jumped out of a plane?

I have not jumped out of a plane. And, you know, again, I even tell a little bit of the story inside the book about standing out when I'm 5 years old trying to learn how to swim. And they also put you on the diving board. And I was on the low diving board, which is only 3 or 4 feet from the water. But man, you could have told me it was a 10-story building and I wouldn't have jumped off the end of that diving board to go into it. But now I have a good excuse. It's the insurance policy that says if, you know, if your chute doesn't open, we're not paying your wife for dying. So she won't let me in a plane.

Yeah, I'll tell you what, I've done skydiving twice now. And when they make you sign that waiver that basically says we're not responsible for anything related to you jumping out of the plane, even though they're entirely in control of the experience, it makes you question Why am I doing this? And now that I've probably built a son, I think kids change the equation a little bit. But anyway, my next question from your story, and you could give me a real answer, you could dance around it if you want to, but who was your favorite speaker at BookThinkers Live 2025? When you watched those onstage presentations, who do you think had the biggest impact on you and And who did you enjoy watching the most?

Wow. I mean, I look, I look back on this. I'm not going to dance around it. I'll say, and this is often, this often happens to me, even when I read books by great authors, like they're up on the stages. I have a, I have a perception going in and then I had coming out of it is one of those like, oh, that wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be. I had the expectation too high or it exceeded my expectations. And that was really good. Pressfield was awesome. I think he punches you right in the nose as they go through it. And I had not read any of his stuff prior prior to that. I had heard about his books, but I hadn't read his books before. But to hear him talk about in one of the you know one of the chapters inside the book ultimately was you know I don't care how you feel was really about you know professionals show up when times are tough and and amateurs just kind of hold back and stay away from it. And I just thought that hit me really well. Now there's eight practices in the book. So, I didn't hit all of the speakers that were there too. Not all of them impacted me the same level, but certainly, because I knew her, Jill Schulman, I knew she was going to do well and she hit it out of the park too. And then, thirdly, probably, Cinder Kamphoff was a big influence as well.

Yeah. Well, hey, 3 amazing speakers. And you're right, Pressfield is a very unique person. He's also one of the only people that has guested on this podcast 3 or more times. I think we've done 4 interviews together. So, he holds a special place in my heart as well.

He gets the robe, the 5-timers club coming up here pretty soon, like Saturday Night Live days. Absolutely.

Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. So, okay. You hear me talk about building a book from the experience, writing your own story. And inside of the workbook, you start to take that literally. Did you commit to writing a book in that moment or did you decide, Okay, I'm going to go through this experience, take a couple of notes, and then if you decided later, what was that moment like for you?

No, I committed to writing it right then. And it really was like, it was, you talk about even in reading a book, like, what are your intentions going into it? But there was something you said, like, no, that was different. What I hadn't done is made it SMART while I was there. I had everything on there but the time-based component of it. So, I came back. And I converted each of the chapters ultimately into a blog post. So I have a weekly Champions Brew newsletter that I do, and I wrote a series over the course of 8 weeks plus a conclusion on that experience. And when I got that together, I said, man, this actually will make a pretty good book. And I look at some of the books that have been written, and Seth Godin is a prime example. You know, a lot of his books are compilations of his blog posts over, over periods of time. And it became a little bit easier to compile that, but I still found a little bit of that someday. And so I had to commit to that date. I put the first one out there that was April until I learned how difficult even the self-publishing process was all about and ultimately came up with— and I committed to my RTA group that said September 25th was going to be the day that it came out. They had a chance to read it beforehand and give me their feedback, but it was coming out regardless of whether or not they told me. And I was able to hit that date just a few weeks back, which was, which was a lot of fun. But I had to put that date out there or it wasn't going to happen. So.

Well, I'm sure, I'm sure I didn't help with the timeline. I know it took me a little while to write the foreword, but I wanted to do a nice job with it. And, and I just thought this was such a fun experience. So what does it feel like now that the book is out there and you're starting to collect feedback from real-world readers?

Yeah, it's a great question because I think there's the process side of the pain and anguish of, you know, trying to become a best-selling book. And I only self-published it. And so to sit there and even click on Amazon and watch it climb as I've been trying to work with folks to buy the book from a timing standpoint and actually hit the best-selling list for like 2 hours in one of the categories and getting a snapshot, that was kind of cool inside the process. But I tell you that it didn't really impact me the most until I held that paperback version in my hand when it came in the mail for the first time. I did a little video on it. I said, I've opened a lot of folks' books when they come out, and I buy them before they're released, and I get them the day they're released. And it's fun to take that picture of their book knowing you're going to add value and share it on social media. But to have that book with your name on the front of it, I think, is very impactful for me. It took me back a lot of years, all the way back in some of these books on my shelf right over the shoulder over here when I was 4 and 5 years old, when my mom had them made up and they're typewriter pages with my name in and things like that. To that point in time, it was pretty rewarding. Having said that, it also said when, you know, I started thinking about the next one that was going to come out as well. So, 8 Common Practices, but I've already started adding to that list, so I'm up to 11 now. I got to really get it going. Then, I'll meet John Gordon at his 93 habits that he has as well sometime, or John Maxwell and 92 books one day. We'll see.

Yeah, there are a lot of amazing people out there, and your journey has just started. I'm sure it feels great to receive that external validation from the world that what you've documented inside of this book is making a positive impact on people. And of course, you want to create more value for the world. Let's talk a little bit about leadership in general, and then we'll dive into some of these lessons inside of the book. You've read a lot of books. You've coached a lot of people. You've been coached by a lot of people. You've hosted a whole bunch of interviews where you're getting amazing insights from the world's greatest leaders. What are some of the mis— the biggest misconceptions related to leadership, especially as it stands today in 2026? Yeah,

as it stands today in 2026, and some of the things that I think about, especially where my faith journey has been, Is that definition of success and how that's changed over the years, whether that's inside of what I've read and had an impact on, or whether that's the people that have been around me. And you touched on it even— I don't know if we have it on recording or before we hit about things change. You mentioned jumping out of plane when we have kids and our definition of success inside of that world starts to change. So too many times early on in leader's journey that we get this definition of success that it's all about numbers and The number of cars that are driven and the number on our 1040 at the end of the year with regards to how much money we make or how big the house is. And I think all those things are important, but that's changed with me over the years as I've grown in my faith and recognized that it's not just the impact that I want it to have for me, but it's more the impact that I want to have both for others from a legacy standpoint, but also a kingdom impact for me, and that the work that I'm doing ultimately is going to bear fruit in my life and the lives of others. John 15:5, Inside the Walls, one of the verses that, you know, is talking about my life is that ultimately, if I abide in Him and He in me, that I will bear fruit for the rest of my life. And so that obedience side of really growing in my faith and growing an understanding of what success means has a bigger difference now than it did years ago. I don't know if that's all about just getting old, what that means, but I certainly think it's been a transformational journey for me over the years.

What did John at 25 years old believe that you no longer believe about success and leadership?

2 things. Well, success specifically. So I remember saying it when I walked across the stage. I didn't— not as I walked across stage, but as I got off the stage, I'm done. I'm not reading any more books anymore. I don't— I have sort of arrived. The other side of that was sitting down, a 23-year-old, and saying, all I need to do is make $50,000 a year and I'll be successful. And I got there when I was 26. I'm like, Holy smoke, what do I do now? And I still didn't know how to spell leadership and what that really meant. But I remember in 1998, so I'm just 29 years old, and a leader brings a book to me. It's The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. And he says, let's go through this chapter by chapter. I'm like, really? You know, it's something that just wasn't there. But it was something that when I read the first few chapters, it was like That book was talking to me on the journey that I was on. That author was talking to me and I was hooked. I wanted to get as much information as I could. I went to his conference in 1999 and I joined his tape club. That was the Enjoy Tape Club at the time. And you get the monthly tape that had a message on it. But I wanted to consume as much as I could of his work that was there. And I, you know, early on in that journey, it was just all about consuming. And where it got to for me recently, again, back to that definition of success, is that it wasn't just for me. When I was reading these books that are behind me, I was just taking that in as knowledge. But what I really needed to get to is, based on what I'm reading, what am I doing as I come out of that reading? Am I making any change in my life? What am I sharing as a result of what I'm reading as well? And then ultimately, what am I— I'll use the term storing. Okay, because, you know, the book— and I've said this, and I know you kind of have a feeling more about books than I do— that all leadership books, business books, whatever, in this self-development space are really based on 3 books that have been written: Think and Grow Rich, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and the Bible. And that there's nothing new that's being written. But what I learned is that through the experiences of others and then the experiences that I've had, I've got a way to add value to individuals that could be good. And I don't care if the— first of all, if you're writing books to make money, that's not going to happen in terms of how it works. But if you're writing books to make a difference in the life of others and you're actually okay if only one person's life is changed as a result of that writing, that's the type of impact that I want to be able to have with what I'm writing now.

And sometimes, even if you don't impact any other people, you typically impact yourself. When you write a book like this and you consolidate and simplify your thinking and you write it down so that you could teach other people, like you typically get held to a higher standard of leadership, for example, and success than you did before you wrote the book. Did you have any aha moments or are you using this book as an accountability factor in real life? Like, are there any things inside of this book that challenge you and you, you were reminded while you were writing it like, wow, I've got to live to a higher standard?

I'll say this when I read it again, and I hadn't thought of doing this as I wrote it. And what I don't want to say, I was disappointed in myself, but it just, it's kind of the coach in me that got there. But I read through the book afterward and I look at these 8 practices. I'm like, this is ultimately an assessment tool. And if I look at these 8 practices and I rate myself on a scale of 1 to 10 in each of these areas, and I actually rated myself in the area of the selling of the book in each of those, those 8 practices. And I'll say that I didn't get a high score in every one of them. You know, I got 8s and 6s in most of the categories, but I found myself in overcoming limiting beliefs, and I really reflected on it, that I gave myself a 4 coming out of it. It was one of the practices of an uncommon leader to have the mindset, a positive mindset, and I still As I got this book for the first time, it felt great to hold it. And then I said, you know, this, this isn't as big as some of the other books that I read, or, you know, the pages aren't as long as the other books that I read. And I still found myself comparing and checking myself in that and saying, how do I get— how do I continuously get better? So while I wrote about those 8 practices, I certainly didn't write about them from an expert's perspective. But rather our mutual friend Rory Vaden and say, I'm most powerfully positioned to help the person that I once was. And frankly, that I still am, is that I still have to work these practices every day to have them be impactful.

Well, thank you for your transparency. And it's not always easy to admit there's room for improvement and that you fall victim to the whole idea that You know, you should be comparing yourself to other people. But I, I think what you just highlighted is really interesting, that you used it as an assessment, that you ranked yourself through the lens of selling books. So let's, let's go through a couple and kind of explore, give it, give the audience a little preview for what they can learn. And we can go in order of how the book was written. So chapter 1 is all about do hard stuff. And you talk about Addiction to— well, you talk about breaking addiction to comfort. Talk to us about the recent difficulties that you had with Spartan Race, I believe it was, and how you need to consistently push yourself into that space and break through.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, again, as I prepared for that, first of all, why did I wait till I was 56 years old to decide to run my first hard distance race that I never should have, never would have thought of before. But I needed that accountability group to make that happen. And so, it was taking others with me that was really important part. If I had had to do that on my own, and it is still whether it is a weakness or not, I probably would not have chosen to do it. But the accountability component of taking others with me on that journey, Made it more fun, made us realize that in preparing, which was really hard, and our exercise routines that got us there— I hated doing every one of them. There's no doubt about it, those exercises. And I don't love going to the gym, but I love having gone to the gym. And when I'm done, I know that I'm better as a result of it. So, you know, we can start there inside of that book. But it's the, you know, doing the small things over and over again with regards to preparing and get ready, that if you can repeat those things over and over again, the 10,000 steps in a day, and you do that so many days in a row, you're going to be much more prepared to do hard stuff as well inside of that journey. So the uncomfortable piece is how I really talk to leaders. And even after the book, there's something that's been sitting in me with regards to not just fitness, but it's in my faith, it's in my finances, and it's in my business as a coach as well, but am I blissfully dissatisfied with how things are going? I often talk about this in the form of when somebody asks me how I'm doing, and if I'm sharp, if my mind is ready, it's, you know, I'm better than I deserve to be. That's grace. But I'm not as good as I want to be. That's that personal growth side of I want to continuously get better. So I don't want to beat myself up for not being there, but I want to recognize that I am on a journey to get there. And the benefit, the fulfillment in life, I believe, is usually on the other side of doing something hard. I think if we just step on cruise control and say we're going to retire when we're 62 and then sit down and not do anything anymore, I hope I don't get there. God willing, I'll keep my health and be able to not use the word retire.

Well, and you look at a guy like Pressfield who was on stage at our event at 82 years old.

Yeah,

still producing content, still writing every day, still acting like the professional that he has become. And why does he do it? Because that's who he is. Of course he's going to— he's going to do that forever. So I look forward to being that version myself in the future too. I also love being able to balance the recognition of where you've come from and be grateful for it and acknowledge it. acknowledge it and give it love and also understand that you have so much more to do, so much more impact to create. Uh, and I think being able to hold those 2 and not let one eat the other— Yeah, right. It kind of in a balance. I think that's a beautiful place to be. And that's oftentimes how I describe my life. You know, Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan, they wrote The Gap and the Gain together. And that's always the gain is looking in the rearview mirror and giving love to what you've accomplished. And the gap is understanding that there's always more to do.

Love that.

And being able to balance both is hard, but it's important. So what is one way that you could have been more uncomfortable? What are some of the ways that you could have embraced more discomfort when launching and selling this book to people?

You know, it's funny, like, I interview folks just like this on the Uncommon Leader podcast, and I have no challenge having conversations with you in this journey. I can stand up in front of 10 people, 50 people, 500 people, and facilitate activity and really walk them through that. But if you ask me to talk to a camera on my own, it is a total discomfort for me in terms of seeing that red button. And I'm like, I'm talking into this camera lens versus talking to someone else. I had to get real uncomfortable inside of that space to create the social media leading up to, if you will, that my assistant, in essence the editor and kind of my virtual assistant who kept saying, I need this, I need this, John, I need this if we're going to make this best-selling. And I knew that, but I just I hesitate to hit that red button. And so there have been things that I've had to do to get more comfortable at that. It certainly is, you know, one of those like trying to find the right selfie stick to hold while you're making videos and walking around. And frankly, being comfortable about, you know, who I am. My wife hates when I say this, but, you know, Those of you listening to this, this is great. But I learned this from Bill Hart in Building Champions one year, and I use it. It gets a few laughs, but she hates it. She says, I've got the perfect face for radio, no doubt about it. And so, you know, growing up as a kid and that person, you know, used to be and being, you know, bullied as a kid for a lot of different things, it's still difficult to overcome that as well. And that's why, you know, even the essence of the book from a scriptural standpoint, and there's this book that sits right there, The 4/8 Principle by Tommy Newberry. That's been a hugely impactful book on me based on Philippians 4:8. Whatever is true, noble, right, excellent, praiseworthy— think on these things. And it's absolutely important from a mindset. But the story behind the book is I think that the gold comes in Philippians 4:9. I almost called it the 4-9 Principle, but I changed it over these 8 common practices because I didn't think a lot of folks would, would see the 4-9 Principle on the front of the book correctly. But it's whatever I've taught you, whatever I've shown you, I need you to put that into practice and the peace of God will be with you. And that was the piece that I had to become uncomfortable with, is I'm great at reading books and things like that, but taking the action. And even as a coach and as somebody who does hard stuff, I still have to, you know, encourage myself to get out of bed without hitting that snooze button every day versus comfort.

We all fight that battle, John. We all fight that battle. Yeah. And even though it's a little aggressive, I sometimes like to share that the person you're best positioned to serve with this book is in a tough spot and they're scrolling on social media and they're looking for somebody to reach through the screen, slap them around a little bit, and provide some good advice to wake them up, to stop the doom scrolling, and to get them to commit to reading something useful like your book. But they'll just continue scrolling until you find that confidence to more consistently create content and overcome the fear. And they don't care what you look like. They just care, you know, I think quality of video today, John, is quality of thought, not quality of production. And I know you've been doing it and I know you're creating it, but I just want you to create even more. I think the world needs more positive thought leadership. And less of this crazy dramatic entertainment that we all get sucked into every day. So keep creating, man. Keep creating.

I appreciate it. And so now you're forcing me to set a SMART goal to do this and kind of double that content, whatever it is. I don't know. Because that's— I love those kind of— I call it the— you say they're SMART goals. I call them SMART goals. That's a Boston goal inside the book.

Tap into the Boston.

Yeah. So get out of realistic and talk about it. The H is heaven help us. Ultimately, in terms of setting that goal, because that's what forces you out of the comfort zone as well, is realizing that you've got to grow to hit that.

You just touched on chapter 2, which centers really around taking action and putting into practice, as you mentioned, with 4/9 is all about action, action, action, action, action, action, action, action, right? I say that a lot because repetition leads to retention, and I want everybody to retain and internalize that. This knowledge is useless unless you take action on what you've learned. So, let's skip ahead to number 3.

Just so you know, you were the inspiration to chapter 2, is just knock on the door, right? Yeah, that was your story that said, I didn't want to— you didn't want to hit knock on that door at that point in time. Absolutely. You're afraid of no, just like others are. Don't be afraid to no. Absolutely.

And you know what? Every no gets you a little bit closer to a yes. But my audience gets to hear about me a lot, which is why we get to—

Yeah, fair enough. All right.

Number 3, chapter 3, I Don't Care How You Feel. And we already touched a little bit on Pressfield, but talking about action, I mean, what have you implemented? Like, what's a change that you made as a result of what Pressfield had to share?

You know, you think about that, and there was another old fart, if you will, he's 82, my teacher in my lean management style. Helped me influence that chapter as well. I thought back to him. He was 71 when he was still teaching me. Unfortunately, he passed away from leukemia years back. But he used to say this. He would say, I'm not here to comfort the afflicted. I'm here to afflict the comforted. And that's what he's really talking about with regards to, you know, for me, I don't care how you feel. And whether it was after that or not, It really was the I'm still tired in the bed morning, and I actually named my alarm even more to keep me from staying in bed and starting to doom scroll before I stepped out and get my feet out for there. But it you know it says in there get out of bed, go make a difference. It doesn't say that when the alarm goes off, but the text pops up on the screen to let me know. You know I don't care if you're still tired. I don't care if It's cold and you're comfortable under the covers, get out of bed and go make a difference like you made the commitment to do. So, you know, that's one of the things that I fight with all the time. And you and I talked about this on separate calls about sleep and improving our sleep and what that means so that I'm not tired in the morning. But I would say coming out from Pressfield, he first took me back in time with that. But as a coach in my business or as a consultant, I find myself saying that to clients often is, I don't care how you feel. I care how you feel, but I don't care how you feel. And when they say, I don't feel like doing it, well, the uncommon leader— good intention ultimately without good discipline will lead to excuses, but good discipline with good intention leads to excellence across the front. And that only happens on purpose. You got to be And again, he framed it perfectly in the eyes of the professional versus the amateur and the differences. So good.

There's so much wisdom in what you just shared, and I resonate with it a lot, obviously. You know, desire and comfort is definitely not a prerequisite for taking action. If we all waited until we were in the perfect spot to go after our dreams, to wake up, get out of bed, if we all waited until we weren't retired anymore. I mean, the world would be a sad place. Many of the most iconic and influential entrepreneurs and personalities and changemakers on this planet wouldn't have done any action if it was a prerequisite for them to be comfortable and fully rested and ready to go before they did anything. And I believe, just like I know you do, that discipline is a form of self-love, and it's one of the greatest forms of self-love. I think that You know, the version of Nick that wakes up at 5 AM when the alarm's going off, and while it's still dark out and cold, grabs a towel and heads to the pool and gets an hour and a half swim workout in, walks out of the gym and it's still dark and cold outside, and he goes home and he showers and he changes and he does his meditation and he gets some reading done, and then he gets his 2-year-old son up. That version of Nick has done more than most people do in an entire day, and he didn't want to do any of it. But I'll tell you—

That's right, he didn't want to do it. That's right, he didn't want to do it. He didn't feel like doing it.

Not at all. So much friction at every single step in that process, but he's fulfilled and happy when he's going to bed that night knowing that he created the space and the time, even though it was difficult, to become the best version of himself. And, uh, you know, you know, there are a lot of different levers that we can pull on to make that friction less intense and overcome the resistance, as Pressfield would say. But, uh, I love that lesson. I don't, I don't care how you feel. And I say that to myself all the time. I don't care how you feel. You're doing the work.

That's right. You got to do the work. Yeah.

John, for people in the audience that have loved this conversation and they'd like to get a copy of the book, where should they go? What should they do?

Yeah, we got it. We got it available on Amazon. They certainly can go to my website, coachjongallagher.com, and learn more about the book, but you'll purchase it on Amazon. There's a link on the website to go there. And I want to offer this to your listeners as well. We talked about doing this earlier. I just, I just missed the opportunity because I get so into the book. But, you know, those listeners who kind of share this and tag both of us in the share, okay, whether they share it on audio or on YouTube and on social media, wherever it is, I would love to provide them with an Audible version of the book too. Some folks like to listen through. We know, we can see, we like to read and the tactile feel of it, but some folks like to listen. But I've got the book that's been read by the author and you can go through it and basically in one workout that you'd be inside the gym and listen through and hear all 8 of these practices. I'd love to hear what you have to think about it, but I'd love to share that with your listeners.

Awesome. Okay, well, that's your homework, Book Thinkers family. Go ahead, share it, tag both of us in it. You'll get the free audiobook. My audience knows I love to read and listen to books at the same time, kind of get that multisensory experience. And so, 8 Common Practices of Uncommon Leaders, with a foreword written by yours truly, Nick Hutchison. John, great conversation today. Uh, we'll have many more conversations over time, uh, offline, online, in front of the public, behind closed doors. You're just the kind of person that— I want to support and learn from. It's a reciprocal relationship, and, uh, I'm just happy that I was given the opportunity to participate in this, uh, in some small way. Uh, last question for you as we, as we wrap things up here. Uh, if, if the audience could just implement one simple thing from the book, uh, give them a taste of what they can learn. Just one simple, small little habit that has a lot of leverage, maybe some downstream positive effects, what would that be? How do we become better leaders?

Yeah, I think about this. And if you ask me, like, and I'm going to answer that question, but I've thought about with regards to, like, which one is my favorite? And I love chapter 7, Build Relationships Before You Need Them. And when I think about that, we, you know, you and I both quote Jim Rohn very often. You are the average of the 5 people you, in essence, hang around with the most, whether you hang around with them in person, Or you hang around with them online or whatever that is, and even if you follow. But we're either going into, in the middle of, or coming out of some kind of crisis in our life. And if you're in one of those or coming out of one of those right now and you have not already built the relationships with the individuals who you can call at 3 AM to say, hey, I need your help going through this, Folks, we can't do this on our own. There's no doubt about it. And so you need to take a look at your circle and understand who are those individuals that are building you up and invest in them more. And frankly, those individuals that are sucking the energy out of you, you need to start doing some pruning so that you can grow even more into the future. But I think it's time for you to start being intentional with that relationship building, with that close-knit circle, and make that happen. That, to me, has been the biggest impact on my success over the years, is having either a coach or a friend or a mentor in a book who I never meet that's made an impact on me to say, get out there and do something.

Well, it's a beautiful way to wrap up, and it's also a great reminder to the audience that If they're looking for more of those people, we just launched at Book Thinkers a book club on Skool, skool.com/bookthinkers. And inside of that community, you'll find those types of people that you'll want to spend more time with. John, you're in there. I'm in there. There are some amazing people inside of that club, and they're the type of person that you could develop those relationships with, uh, so that in the future you'll have more people to call. And you're right, it's all about community. It's all about accountability. It's all about genuine relationships. And those are the types of people that we want in there. So if that's you, you can check out the Book Thinkers Book Club on Skool. John, one more time, amazing conversation. Thank you for spending some time with us today, and I'm excited for the audience to hear this.

Amen. Thank you, Nick.