Life-Changing Books Podcast Episode 1. Evan Carmichael: Author of Built to Serve

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to episode number 1 of our brand new podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, I interview some of the world's top authors, and as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and to live better. In this episode, I have the pleasure to interview an author and mentor of mine, Evan Carmichael. Evan is actually the reason that I started this podcast, the reason that I call the audience Book Thinkers Family, and the reason that I'm so clear on my purpose. He can help you get to that place as well. Our conversation touches on his new book, Built to Serve, my strategies for landing guests on this podcast, and some fun casual conversation. So Book Thinkers Family, please enjoy my conversation with Evan Carmichael.

Let's do it. I'm ready. I'm excited for you. This is it. Start of great things.

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. So for those in the audience that don't know who the great Evan Carmichael is, can you tell everybody a little bit about who you are?

Probably best known for either the books that I've written— Built to Serve is the most recent one— or my YouTube channel. I've got 2 million subscribers, 200 million views, really focused on just trying to help entrepreneurs especially believe in themselves more. Um, I think everybody's got Michael Jordan level talent at something, and I want to try to help them conquer it and push through.

What is your Michael Jordan level skill or talent?

Um, the ability to believe in people more than they believe in themselves.

Wow.

If you think back to even when we, when we did our— I think it was an IG Live, it was an Instagram Live when I challenged you a little bit.

It was, yeah.

Yeah, there's just something in it that, you know, you've, you've had so much success over the past 3 years, I think, since I last connected with you. And you're, you're building Book Thinkers family and had all these accounts. And every time I go on IG, there's like another person who's joined your team, who's tagging me and all this. It's great. I'm like, you know what, this— Nick could be doing a lot more. This, this isn't it. There's more. And so the last part of the conversation just turned into a challenge to do something. And this is the evolution of it is, hey, podcast, like, hey, I'll be your first guest. Let's make it happen. But that, that ability to, especially in achievers, I think achievers like you need to push out of love because so many achievers are the best in their group. They've done more than the people around them. They're pushing harder and more ambitious in their circle. And there's nobody telling them, Dude, this is like nothing compared to what you could do. You can have the haters saying you suck, but nobody's saying you need to push harder. Um, so for the achievers, I'm, I'm that. And then for the, for the, you know, complainers down low, it's more just listening, empathy. Just believe in people more than they believe in themselves, man. It's, it's, it's what I do.

Well, I believe in that as well. And it's fun. In one of Russell Brunson's books, he talks a little bit about These different types of people, these different personalities you can have when you're first starting a business. And he says one of them is called the reporter. And the reporter is somebody who goes out and they draw fantastic information from people who have done what they want to do and who have done it really well. And so when we connected at first, I viewed you as that person. You're very successful on social media. You identified your who, your why, and your how, and you live it daily. And I see you on Instagram, you answer questions almost on a daily basis from people in your community. And somebody asked you about a recent event and you said, listen, I'm focused on one thing. I block out everything else. And it is so true that everybody that knows you knows that you believe and that you want to help entrepreneurs succeed. So I love that. And, uh, we'll, we'll start here with a little bit of a story. So Evan actually reached out to me a couple of years ago. with a video on Instagram. He DM'd me a video and it was a selfie of him and he said, hey, Book Thinkers, because I wasn't showing my name much at the time. And he said, I've written some books, I want to send you one, please send me your address, we'll get it done. And I thought that was so cool because at the time I had almost no followers, I had a couple thousand. And it was so interesting to me that somebody of your level would reach down and provide value into my life and I'm one of those success stories. I'm a disciple of your motivation and your help and also your pull because you challenge people to do interesting things.

I love it, dude. It's, um, it's been one of the fun things of being around for so long, I guess. You know, I've had my YouTube channel for 11 years now, and most people, most people don't follow through enough. Most people, they, they don't stick with it enough. And it, and it, it's a constant push for me to get better at what I do to try to help give them what they need. But I, I love being— I love being episode 1 for people.

I love it.

I love it falling apart. I love it. Is this recording? Oh my God, my camera fell off. Like, I love all of the, the hiccups of starting the first show and people being nervous. And I love that people can— it's this joint experience. Then I can— it's also me believing in that person and say, hey, I believe in you. I want to see you win. I think you've got something. And so, you know, for reaching out to you, I saw your account and I thought, well, let's go. Why not? Like, maybe nobody else is reaching out to him. So let's make it happen. I just love being— I don't have as— I haven't made as much time to do that with everybody. So I can't be— as I start saying, I love being people's first guests. I get all these DMs. Hey, can you be my first guest on my show? And so there's still a restricted amount of time. So now I just can't say yes to everybody like it was before. But, um, it's still— it's the greatest, dude. I love helping people launch their thing. It just, it fills my soul, man.

Well, one of my things is being transparent, radically transparent and honest. And I know that you're that way as well. And so it's funny, when we started this conversation, I noticed that I was filming in the wrong view. And I'm like, wow, this is the 5th or— I mean, this is episode number 1 and we're redoing it because we messed— I messed up episode number 1 the first time we recorded. And here we are, episode 6 or 7 as far as recording and the strategy, and I still messed it up. So it happens, and I love being vulnerable.

It's so good though. It's so cool. I love it. I mean, and I, I always tell people, and you too, like, I want to be guest 100. I want to come back for number 100. You know, tell me when you're at 95 or message my assistant and we'll make it happen. And just, just looking back and seeing the growth, if you sit here and do it for 100 episodes, it's going to be so much crisper, cleaner, better, but I love the clumsy beginnings. Like, it's just so good. It makes me so happy. And then just support through it. A lot of people don't like— so a lot of people who you're reaching out to, I mean, now you've already built a platform. A lot of people will say no. You know, a lot of people, if you haven't had certain guests on or you don't have a certain amount of following, they won't even say no. They just will ignore you. You know, you send a DM and it says seen, but then there's no response.

Hey, it still is happening, right?

But, but then you can use— like, I like that you can use this to go get people who know me, right? And my name means something to some people, it means nothing to other people. But anybody who's following my account who is also an author who you might have a book of, if you say, hey, we've had Evan Carmichael on, that might move the needle a couple percentage points between a yes or no. And that makes me pumped that you can Use that, you know, for the next 5 years and helps you get better conversations with people who make your heart go boom, boom, boom, right? Because, because I took whatever, an hour to sit down with you and have a conversation, right? I just, I love it. I love it so much.

The two of us are cut from the same cloth. I love it as well. I have been a couple people's first podcast episode as well. And so there are different levels to it. And as you build momentum, you climb up the different levels and you get to experience conversations with people that you didn't think were possible. And That's happening to me right now. And I'm also trying to give back just like you do, because I have so many friends and people in my DMs that are looking to jump off the diving board. They're looking to make that first episode or start a book Instagram account. And I love all of it. I love all of it.

And listen, this is not a right or wrong thing. Um, did I tell you the story of the New York author? No. New York. So I was in New York. Multiple bestselling, you know, New York Times author says, hey, I'm in New York too. Do you want to connect and get breakfast? So yeah, let's have— happy to. And we go grab breakfast and then they asked me, what am I doing for the rest of the day? And it's like, oh, well, after this I'm going to go do a meetup with some entrepreneurs at a Starbucks. And then another entrepreneur in my community wants to buy me lunch at this fancy steakhouse because I helped him with his business. And then after I'm going to go meet someone. It's just all— Meeting entrepreneurs in my community, and said that sounds exhausting. Like oh really? Like what are you gonna do? Like I'm gonna go back to my hotel room and write. I mean, and he sold more books than I have. So there's no right or wrong. It's just more what do you love doing? Like if you look at my Instagram today, there might be fifty questions that I've answered to people who ask me a question. And if listen, if in fifteen seconds I can help somebody. out of a situation, give them an answer. We go live every day on Instagram. It's not a strategy for me. Like, it's fun. It's playtime. But for other people, it's a strategy, which is fine. Don't do it and lean in on the things that you find playtime.

And there are a million different ways to find value in communicating with your audience. And I'm somebody who I I'm motivated now. Like, I think that my passion has come out of consistency, not the other way around. When I first started the Instagram, I didn't have a genuine love of sharing with everybody, probably because I wasn't smart enough to know that that's what was going to bring me value, because it really does. And so I built a strategy around answer every DM, answer every comment, and make sure that your true fans felt that their voices are heard. And so I did that. And nowadays I can't get enough of it. I answer every DM with voice messages or videos. I give people long, drawn-out answers to small, simple questions. And it's because I have had those success stories happen where somebody says, hey, you recommended this book. I read it, it changed my life. And that's what happened to me.

Yeah.

And through that daily progress that I experienced in my life that helped me get to a better place, I'm able to do that for other people. And I know that that's sort of your story as well.

The difference is you connected it to service. Once Instagram became about serving and helping others, then it became fun. When it was just about marketing and getting your name out there, it wasn't enough.

Well, that's a perfect transition to your book. So let's talk a little bit about Built to Serve.

There you go, right?

Perfect. Yeah, you couldn't have laid that up any better for me.

Let's do it, man.

Okay, Built to Serve. Now I read this book and I flew through it and I've shared it with a lot of other people. For me, it was special for a lot of different reasons, and I think we can walk through those reasons as we talk a little bit about the framework in the book. But you lay out the who, the why, and the how as 3 pieces to the framework. So let's talk a little bit about first, who is the target audience? Who did you write this book for when you were writing it?

I always write for the struggling entrepreneur who wants to do more but doesn't believe in themselves enough, because that's me. Like, I write for a 19-year-old Evan, and I'm trying to give him as many tools as possible because there's so many 19-year-old Evans out there. Um, that being said, I'm always shocked at who picks up the books and gets great value from it. Like, people are using it as a leadership tool to go through the who, why, how with their teammates so they know how to better manage and understand their colleagues and employees. There's entrepreneurs who buy it for their entire staff so they can better understand. Oh, that's— yeah, I can see that. That makes sense. But it's not why I wrote the book. You know, I look at kids' classes that have picked up like, oh wow, like a grade 6 class is going through this book. That's interesting. It's not what I wrote it for, but cool. Like, I wish I had that kind of book in grade 6 to go through, or maybe You know, more evolved person by now. Um, but I always write for me, like, you know, in the why part, I say your purpose comes from your pain. You'll love helping people who, uh, currently are who you used to be. And so everything I make, this interview, like I'm talking to 19-year-old me. I wish 19-year-old Evan was able to listen to this podcast and hopefully get something from it. So that's, that's who I'm always creating for.

And that's, that's the purpose for the podcast as well. I'd like to connect the audience to new books, new mentors, and new resources that'll help them achieve more and live better, because that's what some podcasts did for me. And this is the podcast that I wish I had jumped into when I was younger. So we should—

I'm so excited for your show. This is so— you're gonna do so well.

Yeah, I can't wait. Some of the guests have been amazing so far.

Has it blown your mind who you've been able to say get a yes from?

Yes.

And you just started, like you've recorded 6 episodes and nothing's even gone live yet.

Exactly. And I'm getting people like, you know, I don't mind mentioning names. So today, Grant Cardone. Yeah, 2.5 million followers worth a few hundred million. And that's somebody who I've read a few of his books and I've consumed a massive, a massive, massive, massive amount of his content. And he wants to give me the time.

So what was the pitch to Grant? Like, what did you— did you DM him? Walk us through the process.

I have tagged hundreds of authors in posts over the last 3 years. So I know who views things and who doesn't.

Yeah.

If I know that somebody views my content, then my pitch is through Instagram DM, and I'll send a personal video just like you did to me.

Yeah.

Where I say, hey, this is Nick. I run the largest nonfiction book community on Instagram, and this new podcast is being put out to help connect people with the people that have brought my life up. And the pitch is a little bit cleaner than that, but The purpose is to highlight their book and either to spread their mission or to sell books. And so I'll put a sub-highlight, a little bit of text underneath the DM that says, happy to help sell books, or happy to help spread your mission. And then for people who don't respond, like Grant as an example, I'm going and I'm searching LinkedIn. I'm searching his website for contact forms, speaking forms, media emails, and I'm putting a similar pitch together. Okay. My name's Nick. This is my audience size. This is my purpose. This is my mission. This is why I'm doing it. This is how, You've already helped me, and this is how I can give back, whether it's in the form of spreading that mission or whether it's in the form of helping to sell books. And so that's been the pitch so far. And then there's normally some follow-up questions and some back and forth.

So, so what was the avenue that, that got you to Grant if it wasn't IG?

It was his website form. You could fill out a little form for speaking engagements, even though they're paid. I pitched my free one.

There you go.

And then some back and forth between his assistants and me. Yeah, it's great. Answering questions and—

He doesn't even have a book he's promoting right now.

I know.

What book are you gonna talk about? 10X Rule, I guess, is his biggest one. I don't think it's his most recent one, but he's not even in book promo mode. That's great, dude. I mean, there aren't that many people who start a podcast and then right away get some of the biggest names in the industry. If you're talking nonfiction, business content, you know, that's a— it's a pretty small world of people who are, who are in it. So—

I can't wait, you know, I'm gonna keep going. We're going to talk about—

Soon you're gonna have to, dude, soon, like by episode 100, we're gonna have to have a new challenge. Like, Nick, dude, you crushed that one, but now it's easy. You got everybody already on your show. Yeah, well, what's next, my guy?

We'll have to figure that out. And for anybody that's still listening at this point, episode number 1, you're like, We're going to get better at interviewing throughout the process too. You know, that's going to be a big piece of it. And when we do episode 100, Evan, maybe we'll be on your 10th book, or maybe we'll, we'll still have to talk about Built to Serve because I'm flying through it.

I like this though. I mean, I like that you make it personal, that you're talking about you and your experience. I think how you set it up was good. Um, I'm just super— I'm already in my head, I'm already beyond episode 100 and you've already got all the big guys on your show. Like it's almost too easy now. So what's the next thing?

Yeah, well, we'll keep, we'll keep going. I've read a lot of books, so there are a lot of guests that need to come on here and talk with us. And everybody's so genuine, you know. I think a good lesson for everybody listening is that we're all people and we all have 24 hours in a day and we all want to spread our mission. And so, Evan, I mean, you're somebody who is so clear on what you want to do, and it's so, you know, it's great to know that and to see that. And now I'm clear on what I want to do and why I'm doing it as well. And once you have those pieces in place, then it becomes easy to communicate it to other people. And all of the big names, they are— they're also clear in what they're doing, and that's one of the reasons why they're so successful.

Yeah, and I think though, I mean, to your credit, you also lead with the genuineness, which is what makes people want to say yes. I mean, Grant turned down other things to come on your show, uh, lots of opportunities. He could have been other, other people's podcasts and shows Who are way further ahead than what you've done. But it's— and that's not putting you down, that's building you up. It's like your genuineness shone through. I don't mean without even seeing the email exchange between you and his assistant. It's that I like this guy, I like what he's doing. And yes, it's opportunity for me as well, but he's got lots of opportunities. He's saying yes because of— so yes, they're genuine, but if you lead with your genuineness, you're much more likely to get a favorable response.

For sure. And you actually have a quote in Built to Serve from Zig Ziglar, and it says, selling is something we do for our clients, not to our clients. And so when I'm talking about this podcast, I'm doing it for Grant. I'm helping him spread, you know, the lessons that he's taught me. And I'm doing it for my audience so that they can understand the same lessons that helped me get to where I am today. And I still have an infinitely tall mountain to climb. But I'm loving the process.

That's the best lead for that interview. It's like, you may know Grant for his jets and his 10X conference and his over-the-top personality and owning whatever millions in real estate, but you know why I love Grant? Because of this book right here. And this book taught me how to— what, like, I kissed my first girl after this book. Right, or something like whatever, something that happened that is wild that nobody has ever heard before, and like Grant's never heard that before. Instead of like, hey Grant, so tell us who you are. Now he's in— now he's going to give you his standard pitch that he gives everybody.

All right, well, when everybody that's listening to this tunes into that episode, we'll have to see what I come up with.

Yeah, like you do the intro every time and make it personal and nobody's going to care. Like Grant, I'm sure has a standard bio, right? He is not going to care at all if you miss 4 lines out of his bio. He doesn't even know what's in his bio. But if you tell me a personal story, like I read this book and then I bought my first car or whatever, um, he's instantly connected to you and you got a great personal story to lead in and then open up a conversation.

Yeah, I love that. And I want to draw people outside of the standard interview. Like I did one with Russell Brunson the other day. And he, he's doing 100 radio interviews or podcasts for his book that's out now. And I said, well, what can I do that's a little bit different? And I wrestled when I was in high school, and he wrestled.

There you go.

And he had some funny stories about wrestling camp moves that didn't work and how he got pinned in the book. And so We talked right off the bat about some wrestling stuff. And so it's a fun way to bring people outside of that normal hit the snooze button kind of interview.

Especially when they're in publicity mode like Russell, when he's doing 100 different shows at a time, he's, he's getting asked the same questions on repeat. And so one, it's refreshing to talk to you, but two, um, he's, he's dialed into his talking points. That it's going to be so easy to just say the same talking points. And so you have to work extra hard to break the pattern to get something new and unique. Right?

Yeah, you don't want to just post that Q&A style Instagram clip of something that everybody else has heard 1,000 times from every other influencer that they follow.

Yeah, like you got Book Thinkers Family because of your one word, right? My first book. So that's, that's a great way to like, if you interview me about Your One Word, that's the start. You may know Evan for his 2 million subscribers on YouTube and XXX, but you know what I love about him? I read Your One Word and it made me change the name of my business or my group or whatever, right? Like, really cool, man. What's the story, right? That's a great intro.

And then I had an Instagram Live with him and now I have a podcast, right? I owe you a lot, my friend. So next time I'm in your area, I'll take you out to that steak dinner.

But here you're like, you're doing it. Like the payback, you don't— if you feel like you owe me, then put it into your work.

Mm-hmm.

Because the greatest gift you can ever give a mentor is listening to the advice and taking action. That's way more valuable than a steak dinner. Like, I'm so jazzed and pumped that you're doing this and that you've gotten all these people already and that I'm already thinking beyond episode 100 for you. That's the greatest thing. That's the greatest reward. Like, I'm pumped up. For your success.

If you can teach a man to fish, right? And so, I mean, that, that— so let's go to that story real quick because we haven't mentioned it in this episode. When I read Evan's first book, Your One Word, I went through the book and I didn't come up with a one word for me. And I don't know that I was ready at the time. I probably could have reflected a little bit more, but I came up with a one word for the Book Thinkers community. And I actually did a poll on Instagram at the time, only a couple thousand people. And on my story, probably only a couple hundred, but I had people submit potential names for the audience. So I heard Book Thinkers Tribe and Book Thinkers Nation and Book Thinkers Community and Book Thinkers this and that, maybe just Thinkers, whatever. But the one that stuck out to me was Family. And so I did a couple other Q&A style posts on my story and narrowed in on Family, and I started to use it. I would introduce myself in videos. I would introduce myself in DMs. I would introduce myself a bunch of different ways. And that created a lot of unity within my audience to be part of the Book Thinkers family. And so now we have this new page on Instagram where we feature different people from the community and talk about their favorite books, talk about why they love reading, where they're from. And it is truly a global presence. And so it's so fun. I mean, social media has so many positive benefits, and that's definitely one of them. And Yeah, that is the story of your one word.

Oh man, I love it.

All right, well, in the interest of time here, let's jump into the who, why, and how from your book. So can you tell everybody a little bit about what the who is and then also what your who is?

So when I was on my tour last year, I did 90 days, 23 cities, uh, talking entrepreneurs in different cities across America. I kept getting asked the same question over and over and over again, which is, how do I know what I'm supposed to do? I feel like I've got lots of talent, lots of ambition. I know I'm capable of more, but I don't know what I should be doing. And I feel pulled in a million different directions. And I said, oh, that's easy. Just go through your who, why, how. And like, your what? Like, your who, why, how. I'll show you. Let's do it right now. And so I do it with somebody and then, and then the audience is like, oh, pick me, do me. And then it happened basically in every city. It wasn't what I was actually there to talk about, but it ended up being the conversation. So going through the who, why, how is a process to help you figure out the direction for your life and live a more purposeful and life of service that is, that is filling for you. So it starts with your who. Your who is your most important core value tied to your one word, right? Same thing, just different language. Uh, and you figure out what is your single most important core value. And when you figure that out, It gives you a lot more confidence and clarity in what you should be doing. Uh, that's what started this podcast. Nick is about progress, right? He's got it. He's got it there on his shirt. I love it. Uh, and so he is not going to be happy unless there's always some kind of progress in his life and his relationships and his business and his, in his family, community, all of it. For me, it's believe. So I believe in people and It's a constant reminder that I want to be around other people who believe as well in themselves and in others. And it's always in— it's always an external game of a gift that you want to give to other people. Nick wants to always help other people make progress. I want to help other people always believe in themselves. But it's also an internal game that you— it's the constant push that you need to remind yourself of. I still need to believe in myself more. It's my biggest strength and my biggest weakness. Nick still needs more progress in his life. It's his biggest strength and biggest weakness. And so having clarity over that shines a big light on all the areas of your life to say, hmm, what do I need to change? Where do I feel like there's no progress? So there's no belief or there's no freedom or whatever your, your who is. Um, and that gives people, and that gives people clarity for life. It doesn't change. Nick's going to be 95 years old and still care about progress. I'm going to still care about believe. We'll be doing his episode 8,000 in a retirement home or something. Still jamming it up. And so you have a single most important core value. And when you figure that out, I think it's one of the most important exercises you can ever do in your life.

And then so how does a credo fit into that? Because I know when I've gone through this experience with other people, it's very hard to define one word. And an easier way to define one word is sometimes to stack a couple of core values or pillars underneath that word that can help Define it a little bit more.

Yeah, so you go through an exercise in the book of how do you figure out what your, your who is, your one word. And I ask you things like, who was your favorite teacher of all time and why? It's not because Mrs. Jones taught you grade 6, you know, homeroom. It's because she, she, she made you feel a certain way. Why? What did she do? And then if you think about her and your favorite movie and what you love about your parents and All the great things that are connected in your life, realize that they actually are connected and there's a common thread between them. You might come up with a couple. So, you know, if you think about that Mrs. Jones, grade 6 teacher, I'll ask you to write 3 words that describe her. And so you write your 3 words down and then 3 words to describe your favorite movie, and you'll see multiple words that just pop off the page a lot more than others. Some people over there right away get what they're core value is their one word. Um, others still kind of wrestle with it and go back and forth. So if you've got a list of, of 3 or 4 different words, you start to think, okay, are any of these more important than the others? Are they, are they, is one the parent of the others? So for me, passion, um, is a strong one, but it fits underneath believe. Believe is the core and then passion is underneath it. So when you're looking at your list, are there any that fit underneath? Like one's the parent and the others are the kids, or if they're all siblings and they're all equal, then you're missing one that's more meta that describes all of them that is actually the parent. So if I look at me, I look at believing in myself first. So that's what most people think when you say believe— confidence, self-confidence— and that's definitely it. But then it's also believing in the work. which is passion for me. I want to— I love being here on Nick's show. I'm not thinking about anything else. What am I doing next? I don't know, something else, but I'm not thinking about it because I'm right here with Nick and you guys. And then believing that it's going to work out, you know, and having that conviction to follow through. Um, and that's how I break down belief for me. And it just adds more clarity. If, if I'm ever upset at something, upset at a situation, upset in my work, upset at something, it's because I don't have enough confidence in it because I don't have enough passion for it, or I don't have enough conviction to follow it through. And that gives you the roadmap or the compass. And that's for life. Those things don't change. And I think that level of clarity is really helpful for people.

Yeah, the book does such an excellent job at walking you through that process. And I spent a lot of time in those early reflections and spending time on the questions and Really deciphering that word for me, which is progress. And I think because this is episode number 1, there will be some people that haven't been following me for a while. So I'll talk a little bit about mine as well. When I was going through these questions, I was, I was finding out that the pivotal point for me was when I started reading books. Like, I always knew that, but why was that happening? And it's because I came from a place of insecurity and self-doubt and Those were driving my decisions. And I wasn't the healthiest. I certainly wasn't the wealthiest. And I wasn't the happiest with my communication with friends and family and everything like that. And so books helped change all 3 of those areas of my life. And so I said, well, what am I about now? I'm about health. I love health. I'm into biohacking and reading all of these books about ways to optimize my brain and my body and perform better because When you exercise, you can do more with your brain. And I just found that so fascinating. But then I'm like, well, I'm about wealth. I read a lot of books about personal finance and ways to optimize my investing. I'm not materialistic, but we're all forced to play the game of money, so you might as well be good at it. And then I thought, but the biggest area of my life that's been changing is my relationship with friends and family and loved ones. And that category is love for me, also with myself. And so overall, the word for me is progress. It's progress in my health, it's progress in my wealth, and it's progress in my love— friends, family, relationships. And so that is the basis of who I am. If I make progress in those areas of my life, and when I go to sleep at night, I'm fulfilled, I'm happy, I'm really happy, and I feel good. And when I can make other people feel that same level of fulfillment by providing them a path to progress, or a path to whatever their one word is, then I feel really good about that too. And so in my life, you know, that's the input. If those things are going up, I feel better. And then the output side, if I'm helping other people increase those areas of their life, I feel really good as well. And so I'm at a place where I'm so much happier, I'm so much more confident, and I really see a brighter future now that I've discovered those kind of things. And so I wasn't able to articulate that prior to reading your book, Evan, which is why I'm so happy that we're on talking today.

Oh man. Well, I feel the love.

Yeah. All right. And then let's talk a little bit about why. Yeah.

And just quickly on that, I mean, it's why, it's why I keep like hearing you go through and just explain it as a guy who's read tons of books and, you know, is pretty self-aware. It's a pretty simple process.

It is.

And it's insanely powerful if you just do the exercise. And some people get it instantly and some people, you know, it takes them a little bit of time to get it. But I think it's just, it's worth doing to have a roadmap for the rest of your life. This is what forced me to write the book. I was on my tour. I didn't have time to write a book. I was already spending way too much time on the tour and all Also traveling and seeing the cities because my wife wanted to see the cities and try the food, and everything was behind. I'm behind on my team. I'm behind on my projects. Everything. And now I decide I got to write a book. And everybody's like, "What? Just come on, man. Like wait till you get home or something. There's too much on the go right now." Like no, no, no, no, no. This is the book. I have to write the book. This is this is too like it's happened in every city that I go to from from you know Detroit down to San Francisco, I'm back. So I just think it's such a gift that we can unlock that in as many people as possible. Anyway, so you asked about the why. So who, why, how, right? It's a 3-step process. So that's the who, your most important core value. Knowing that I want to believe in people, knowing that Nick wants to help people make progress is a great start, but it doesn't, it doesn't like, okay, who, like the whole world? Who do I want to help make progress? Who am I going to believe in? Well, your purpose comes from your pain. And so, like I said, I make my content, I create for 19-year-old Evan. My darkest moment, my most painful moment was when I quit on my business partner, uh, in the first year of my business. I felt worthless. I felt like a loser. Um, I'm making no money. I'm making $300 a month. I turned down a crazy job to, to do this. And I was too embarrassed and ashamed to tell my friends that $20 for pizza and beer was too much for me. So I told them I'm hustling and living the entrepreneur life, where really, like, I just hated my life. So I made it hard on myself. I'm sure they would have been understanding if I just told them the truth, but I was embarrassed, dude. Um, so your purpose is to help other people who are currently like that. You know, I made it through. And I'm not ultimately where I want to be, but I'm better than I used to be. And so my purpose is to help other people who, who are like that right now. Your purpose is to help other people who are, who are right now today struggling with the thing that you went through and you represent hope. You represent progress to them that they don't have to be where they are right now, that there is a better future, even though you're not done growing. Um, so My who is belief. My why is helping entrepreneurs because that's why I struggled so much growing up. So that helps you narrow your focus a little bit more of the types of people that you can help and gives you a lot more clarity as opposed to, I'm just spreading belief around the world.

And then what about the final piece to the puzzle?

So who, why, how. So how is the last part. How you got out of it is a recipe that you can teach other people. So I got out of the hole I was in with my first business by saying, I can't be the first guy to try to build a software company before. I can't be the first guy. Somebody's figured this out. And I thought about Bill Gates who started Microsoft. And I didn't know any software entrepreneurs. Um, he just was the first guy that came to mind. So I researched his story and found out how he did it. It was through partnerships. I started going after partnerships. I got my first one shortly after for $13,500, which was more money than I had seen, you know, ever. When that number came in, I was like, oh man, that is— we're rich. We're rich. $13,500. Um, but that more importantly gave me a strategy I could use ongoing. So anytime I don't know what to do, I model success. I asked myself, who has done this before that I can learn from and apply it to my situation. And so if you now look at my YouTube channel, look at the work I've done, I've spent the past 20 years just modeling success and then teaching other people how to model success to say, hey, here's, here's some lessons from Steve Jobs that you should watch and learn. And in 20 minutes apply to your own situation. Um, so however you got out of the hole that you were in is not some random fluke. You probably tried a million different things. But 1 or 2 or 3 things stuck, you know, and for Nick, it's reading. Great. So now he's, he's an avid reader and he's trying to teach other people how to read as well. It was also listening to podcasts and now he's starting a podcast, right? Like the path that you took to get out is teachable to other people and it might've taken you 5 years to figure it all out. But in a conversation with you, you can shift somebody and they could take that 5 years of your knowledge from 5 minutes of talking to you and make the shift that they need in their life. So the who, the why, the how.

Yeah, I love that. And you're totally right. For me, I mean, I've expressed throughout this entire episode and for 3 years on Instagram that reading is how it happened. And so the first book I ever read was Rich Dad Poor Dad. I was 21. I had never read a book in my entire life other than when I was a young person. And when I went through high school and college, I would do as little as possible to to kind of skate by. But when I got— I was towards the end of my college career and I had a sales mentor of mine hand me Rich Dad Poor Dad and he said, read this. If you're not getting value out of the classroom, then accelerate your knowledge. Read this book. It'll only take a couple hours. And after I read that book, I learned that you could read about these amazing people.

Wait, what was your opinion on books before? Like, he gave you the book, said read this. Well, what did you think about books in general? At that point?

Just a waste of time and boring, boring, boring, a waste of time, but also not sexy.

Okay.

You know, like nobody in my life had ever taught me that reading could do anything for you other than you'd learn about, you know, a foreign land or a mystical thing. And I didn't know about personal development books. And so I thought it was boring.

So was it because it came from him? Then you said, okay, if I don't read it, I'm going to let him down. Or was it because you opened up the pages and something that Kiyosaki said grabbed you? Or combination? Like, what made you actually finish this book when boring books are sexy and— I'm sorry, books are boring and useless?

Yeah, I had gotten to the point in my college classrooms going to these supposedly amazing classes, you know, being taught by amazing professors on amazing subjects that could make me a lot of money, and I wasn't getting anything out of it. And so That was sort of happening in my mind where I was realizing there must be a more efficient way, a better way, a faster way. And that happened at the same time that I got the book. So I think I did owe him. I told him I would read it. And when I opened up the book and I learned that you could learn from these amazing people like Robert Kiyosaki, he taught me the importance of a financial education and financial literacy. And that was an area of my life that I didn't know anything about.

I get, I get so excited. I'm cutting you off.

No, it's totally fine.

How, how far? I'm just curious. This is, this is like, this is the moment. How far were you through the book? Because page 1, you're like, this is stupid, but whatever, I'm gonna make it out. I told this guy to do it. How far were you in the book before you said, you know what, like, books are pretty cool?

It was actually really early in the book. So in the first chapter of that book, he talks about the fact that money is not taught at school, it's only taught in the home. So that's why poor people continue to stay poor. That's why middle-class people continue to struggle in debt. And that's why the rich stay rich. It's because they learn about money in the home. And so I thought, well, you know, I grew up in a fantastic family. I love my parents, but they have a lot of debt. And same with all of my friends and their parents. And why aren't any of them rich? And it's because nobody's self-educating about money. And so that right there was enough for me to say, wow, how did I not realize this? Nobody's ever taught me this.

Yeah.

And so it was that moment. And then he continues to talk about the importance of financial literacy when you go on a little bit. And he says that line of like, you know, it's not about being materialistic. We're all forced to play the game of money. And if some people are more educated and better at handling it, they're going to beat you. And they're going to take advantage of things that you aren't aware of. And so, you know, being a little bit of a control freak, I kind of freaked out. And I said, what don't I know? I need to learn more.

And what was the next book? After Robert, what did you read?

I read The Richest Man in Babylon by George S. Clason. Yep. And then I read The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. And then from there, it was like a snowball of tons and tons and tons of books.

Right.

Okay.

So it started off as just money. The first 2 books are money, although Babylon is not— Babylon is a good bridge. It's not just about money.

Agreed.

And then 7 Habits is not about money. So that, that, that opened up the floodgates. That's cool, man. I think it's great. I think it's, it's just finding the point of connection, hitting, hitting. It's the same thing with me, like finding the right video on YouTube to hit somebody with, to make them realize, oh, I can, I can learn from these successful people. And then it opens up the floodgate of, oh, I can learn from him and her and him and her. Like, where were all these people, you know, 5 years ago? Right. Um, I love it, dude. I love hearing the story.

And then, then I got into the book that I think accelerated that learning so much faster. It was The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. And I know you're a fan of that book as well.

It's on the shelf. I see it next to your one word.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I think I have 3 copies of it, 3 different covers. And I owe so much to Tim as well because he taught me that the conventional 9 to 5 that we're all sort of forced into, especially here in the US, That you don't have to live your life that way and that reality is negotiable. That's, that's my line from that book that I'll never forget. And you can— it's sort of a lifestyle design book. And that all seemed so fluffy to me prior to reading the book. But it took a little bit of awareness with some of those other books. It took a little bit of opening myself up, becoming a little bit more vulnerable. And I was getting pushed out of that conventional lifestyle, not loving my classes. Anyway, and so then I sort of just rolled that momentum into Book Thinkers, and now here we are. I've read hundreds and hundreds of books. So yeah, that's, that's the story. And my how, you're totally right. It's I can show other people how to have similar epiphanies and inflection points and changes in their lives through books and through, you know, paged mentors.

You know what'd be cool? Because it's all about hitting them. Like, if you weren't struggling with money or want to know more about money and realize that you weren't getting it in class, you may not— like, 4-Hour Workweek may not have hit you. The fact that you got the Kiyosaki book at the right time, uh, that opened up the idea that, okay, books don't have to be textbooks and they can be actually helpful and interesting. Um, this is one of the challenges that I face with my YouTube channel. Like, what video should I— which video should I watch? Well, I don't know, what are you struggling with? Right? What book should I read? Well, what do you, what do you need help with?

100 times a day.

Right? There's people ask me too. What's even, even though I don't read that much, I build it. I'm a super slow reader, dude. Um, I try to read 10 pages a day, which for you might seem nothing, but like I am, I'm struggling trying to read books. Um, but I get my knowledge mostly from videos. Um, People ask me, what book should I read? And I'll joke and say, well, listen, Built to Serve, it's a great book. But, but, but like, what are you struggling with? What are you dealing with right now? So you can push them in the right direction. It'd be cool to even have a list of, of a choose your own adventure, Book Thinker style of like, pick what your problems are right now. And then here's the, here's the top 5 books that you should read.

Yeah, we, uh, it may be coming in the form of a book in the next year or 2.

Okay.

Yeah, I have this— I'll talk about the vision real quick. I have this vision, um, of, of an introduction to personal development because you're totally right, it's impossible to have a one-size-fits-all recommendation and The same thing happens to me in my DMs 7 days a week for the last 2 straight years. Every single day I've had somebody say, hey, I need a book recommendation. And maybe they'll throw out a genre. I need a book recommendation in sales. And so having read 45 sales books, I know that that is way too much of a blanket question for me to answer and actually have a real impact. And so I'll have follow-up questions. And so I'd love to create A user guide to personal development. In my head, it's you have an upgrade available and it's 15 1% changes that you can implement today. And these 15 1% changes will come in the form of an alter ego. So maybe the monk talks about meditation, mindfulness, and the resources that I think are out there and are best for the different areas of that genre. And so I've been thinking about that for a little while, but—

You want my take, my hot take on that?

Of course I do.

One, I would say, don't make it a book because this has to be a breathing thing. You're gonna add to it constantly. And it might even involve whether you're the curator or you're also now gonna involve your team or the family or different versions of it. Like the Nick stamp of approval could be something really valuable that this is the number one book for X, right? Um, but I don't think, I don't think doing it in a book format works because you're going to be constantly learning and adding to it. And the, the, the, the number ones will switch. The second thing is I would, what you're talking about, how you describe it is not introduction to personal development. That's leveling people up to the next level because you're already using language. People are afraid of personal development. So calling it the guide to personal development or introduction to personal development, or saying get 1% better every day. is not language that, that the average person talks about.

Yeah.

That's like, you're already in and you want to get better. And so this, that's like the continuation of my journey. That's the, I've already discovered Rich Dad Poor Dad and Babylon and 7 Habits. And now my world's open. Now, what do I do? That's what you're talking about. If you want, if you want to unlock the first version, the Nick who was handed the book, you have to talk about pain points. You got to talk about like what hooked you in was, uh, I don't, I'm not learning about money in school and money isn't taught. Like that line from Kiyosaki, money's taught at home. And you realize my parents are in debt. Uh, or the, or the rich, um, the, um, 4-Hour Workweek where you said the line of your reality is whatever the line was.

Negotiable.

Reality is negotiable. Like that's the language more that somebody who's not. Like, if you want to hook people to reading, that's the kind of mindset you have to have, as opposed to get 1% better every day, which is the mindset of already people who care about personal development and want to keep improving. It's not, it's not wrong or right. It's just like, what is the ambition? What's the mission here that you're trying to accomplish? To hook people to reading or to— and it's both. But with this project, is it, I want to get as many people pick— I want Like, I think what would be awesome, what's missing, why reading isn't, isn't sexy because people haven't done that. Because if you could say, spend 5 minutes with Nick or use my tool and I will give, give me one shot. Just give me one shot, answer these 8 questions and I'll tell you the perfect book that will change your life. And then that's the one, that's the Rich Dad Poor Dad for them and sparks off this whole thing and then dives into the 1% Better Every Day. I think that's powerful, dude.

Well, you have now helped me in a third area of my life. I think that's a great recommendation and it could very easily be a breathable, livable tab on a website or it could be a—

Or your app, aren't you building an app?

Yeah, the app will be available a couple weeks after this podcast is out, so if you're listening to it, check the App Store and yeah, that'll be out really soon.

Channel, channel. How old were you when you, when the guy gave you that book?

21.

Yes. You got to channel 21-year-old Nick. 21-year-old Nick doesn't want to see Evan Carmichael telling him, get 1% better every day, man. And books are where it's at.

I would have shrugged that off and be like, who is this guy?

He's on some, he's on some drug or something. Easy for you to say.

I would have been like, time to go get a drink at the bar. Like, that guy's crazy.

So, so this guy doesn't get me, right? But you do get you because that was you. This is the same thing. It's like you got to tap into— I create for 19-year-old Evan, you create for 21-year-old Nick or 20-year-old Nick.

Yeah, that's such a fantastic recommendation. Well, I appreciate that. And, and to close off that part of the conversation, it's— it is something that I need to do. And a website is so much easier than a book because I have all of the recommendations there in my head, and it would be easy to edit those, and it could be a very, very easy response to people. Check out this link.

And it just— why I say it's breathable or livable, because you just keep adding to it. So I think of Craigslist. Craigslist started when Craig— I forget what his last name is— he just made a list of his favorite things in San Francisco that he would email out to people. And people just kept saying, hey, how do I get on this list? And they would tell their friends. And so it just became his favorite things that were happening in the city. I think the Nick stamp of approval could mean something, and you're the guide to help them part— like, how many books? I think walking into a library is terrifying. You might— like, looking at your library is terrifying. It might now be like a badge of honor. I read all these books, or I'm going to. But 20-year-old, 21-year-old Nick is like, this guy is crazy.

I wouldn't have even seen it.

But, but if you saw it, if you saw you right now, see this guy with tons of books behind him, you think he's nuts.

Yeah, I would.

Some professor, you know, academic, something doesn't understand the real world. So, um, I would keep track. Like if you said some guy asked you about sales and you've read 45 sales books, and so you asked 5 follow-up questions and then you got him to this. That's part of the website now or the app. Like, as you go through helping people, you just keep adding to the website. And so it's just this breathable thing that just keeps— it's an organic thing that just keeps growing and getting better and infecting in a positive way more people.

No, I love that. Well, that's been a big— I'm happy I asked, you know, and I want this podcast to be about the author and the guest and having the audience find new people. But I also want to sprinkle in a little bit of what you love, which is to help the person that's interviewing you. And so that was a, that was a great balance, I think.

Cool. I love it, man. I love it. I think that could really, I think that could really have a big impact. I mean, what you're already doing is already having a big impact. But I think that's a good way to, whether you crowd, you can have like a crowdsourced version, But then also an official Nick. You know Duncan Hines?

I don't.

Okay, so I did— well, you know the brand Duncan Hines, right? Like the cakes, cake mix?

I'm not a cake eater, but I know that you guys make a lot of treats over there.

Okay, so, okay, well, Duncan Hines is a big brand. It's an American brand where they're known for their cake mix, where they— you, you buy the cake mix, you put it in a bowl, and you add an egg and milk and And you have a cake, right? You bake it. That's what it's known for. But Duncan Hines was an entrepreneur. And I did this series of trading cards when I was like way back, I don't know, a decade ago or so. Um, and I connected with big people and asked them who their favorite entrepreneur was. And I turned them into trading cards. So I connect with Seth Godin. Seth Godin said his favorite entrepreneur of all time was Duncan Hines. Like Duncan Hines, the cake mix guy? And so I went to research Duncan Hines's story, and he was an entrepreneur who built his name going to different restaurants on the— as people are doing driving tours, like, I'm trying to— I want to drive from California to Seattle all along the West Coast. He would stop at all the restaurants and the mom-and-pop shops along the way and review their restaurants. and look into the kitchen and do tours. And the people who, who, uh, got a certain score in his mind got a Duncan Hines recommended sticker that they could put on their window, and it meant something. Kind of like Zagat, I guess, now. But, but, you know, he was the guy. And so it was interesting that Seth Godin— you know Seth Godin, you have to, he's an author— um, would pick him as his favorite entrepreneur. And Seth is a weird guy, but you'd expect a weird You know, entrepreneur favorite. But there's a little bit of that in you, is he was helping people find their path. Like, they had a destination, I guess. Most people who were starting in this place don't really know what their destination is. They just know that they're lost. They know, they know that they're lost, and they don't even know how lost they are until they actually get into it. You get into it, you're like, oh my God, I'm so lost. Let's start building the path. But you start helping them build their, their trip and also where to stop along the way to get the best meals to help them get there.

Well, Duncan Hines might end up being my favorite entrepreneur once I learn more about him, because, uh, that is exactly what I'm doing. And I do it in a really chaotic, inconsistent format right now. And that would solve a lot for me. Yeah. Well, that, that was a lot of value. Thank you for that.

Cool, man.

I'm pumped. That's a cool story. And with—

We got to make sure at least Built to Serve is somewhere on that list.

Yes, and it'll be, it'll be number 1 in the purpose section for me.

There you go. Hey, wow, that's a good section.

Yes, it is. And it has the Nick stamp of approval on it.

Wow.

And you can market that. It'll mean something.

I think, I think that's something, dude. Just like people put New York Times bestseller, like that could be the thing. Book Thinkers approved, or Nick approved.

Nick's list, Craig's list, Book Thinkers approved. Yeah, we're gonna make it happen, and it's probably gonna come out faster than you think. We'll make that work.

I love it, dude, how fast you threw this podcast together and the guests you've lined up. And once you— the, the— once you— with you, once you see how it could play out and it makes sense to you, the best thing of you is you like attack it With ambition and like you're on it. Once you've got the idea of doing the podcast, you're like, I'm gonna get Grant, I'm gonna get— and you just attack it. He's not responding to me on DM? Great, I'm gonna tell him I'm doing a speaking gig. Right? So it doesn't surprise me that you would move quickly on it. It's just, you just have to see the path to it and then it's done.

Yeah, well, it'll be fun. And there are, you know, this will bring solace to a lot of people listening. There are a lot of failures along the way, but what's nice about a situation like this is you get multiple at-bats. And so Seth, as an example, I emailed Seth and I found his personal email and I emailed Seth and I said, gave him the pitch. I've read 3 of his books or 4 of his books already. And he said, hey, not right now, but reach out to me in a couple months. And he probably doesn't want to be the first guest. He probably wants to see that it'll go somewhere. And so Seth will say yes next time.

Yeah, or he could be busy, right? I mean, like Brendan Burchard right now is writing his next book.

Mm-hmm.

And so, I mean, I was with him in Puerto Rico hanging, but I asked him for something or if I could help with something. He's like, I am just swamped. I'm just got to finish up my book. Right? So right now, if you talk to him, he's— it's a no, he probably won't respond. He doesn't even see all the messages when I tag him on stuff. He's just not— he's off the grid as much as possible. But wait 2 months when he's got his book out. That's the time to hit him up.

I'm this guy. I'll be on everybody's media tour too, because now we've got the largest nonfiction book community across our 4 pages. And so this podcast, I'm hoping— it didn't exist. I looked for it. I wanted to find people who only spoke to interesting authors and that could introduce me to new books, but here it is. So now everybody has it if you were looking for it too.

I love it, dude.

Awesome. Evan, we're wrapping up. Thank you so much for the time today. It means the world to me and You've helped impact my life in a positive way and your, uh, your belief in me has meant a lot. So I appreciate it.

Cool, man. Episode 1 in the books. I'll see you at 100. Let's see the growth. Yeah, baby.

Yes, sir.

Thanks, man.

If you've made it this far, thank you so much for listening. If you found any value in this episode, please share it with a friend that might be able to benefit from what Evan brings to the table. He's a really smart guy. We also wanted to remind you that BookThinkers is an online community, but we're also an educational technology company enabling readers to achieve more and live better. And so for more information on our mobile application, our shop, our social pages, or our mission, please check out www.bookthinkers.com. As always, remember that real learning requires education like reading books, but it also requires behavior change. And with that, I'm signing off. I hope you found value in this first episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. Bye.