Life-Changing Books Podcast Episode 34. Jen Sincero: Author of Badass Habits

Hello, Book Thinkers family, and welcome to episode number 34 of our brand new podcast, Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. During each episode, I interview one of the world's top authors, and then as a listener, you can expect to discover new books, new mentors, and new resources that you can use to achieve more and to live better. In this episode, I have the pleasure to interview the author Jen Sincero. She is a number one New York Times bestselling author. Success coach, and motivational cattle prod who's helped countless people transform their personal and professional lives via her products, speaking engagements, newsletters, seminars, and books. Her number one New York Times bestseller, You Are a Badass: How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life, has sold over 3 million copies and is available in over 35 languages. It continues to grow in popularity around the globe And it has been on the New York Times bestseller list for over 4 years now. Her follow-up books are written in the same signature sass, down-to-earth, and blunt practicality that made Jen a celebrated voice in the world of personal development in the first place. And our conversation today is all about her brand new book, Badass Habits. This book breaks down busting and building into a powerful 21-day process. It offers a new perspective on how to train our brains to become our best selves. It arms us with crucial boundary-setting skills and shares enlightening interviews with people who have successfully strengthened their discipline backbones. We will discuss all of that in wonderful color today. So without further ado, please enjoy this amazing conversation with the author, Jen Sincero. Jen, welcome to the Coaching Books Podcast today.

How are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing?

I'm doing well. We are filming this prior to your book coming out, but your book— this will probably come out right after. So your book just launched December 1st, and it's called Badass Habits. And so I'd love to have you describe, number one, yourself to everybody, give a little bit of an introduction for those that aren't familiar with you. But then number two, what is this book all about?

I am a life coach and I have— well, I used to be anyway. I was a life coach for over 10 years and I was also a train wreck before that. So I read every self-help book under the sun in an attempt to get my act together. After reading all these books, it helped me so, so much to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish. I was like, hey, you know, I'm also a writer. I forgot to mention. So I figured I'd take a stab at writing a self-help book in my own voice, sort of to take everything I had learned and put it into a more irreverent, humor-filled voice. And that's how I started the You Are a Badass series of books. And so Badass Habits, I think, is the 5th in the series. Or 4th? Uh, yes, it is Venice, Money, and— I can't remember. Now I'm under pressure, so I can't count. It's the 4th or 5th book in the series.

I'll go back and I'll look it up. But, uh, no, I, I really— so this was my first experience with your writing, and right in the introduction of this book, I was hit with the humor, and I was like, wow, this really does stand out because I read a lot of Not dry content, but there's not often a lot of personality or vulnerability in the nonfiction business-style books that I'm typically reading. And so yeah, I was hit with the humor right on page 1. And you were saying you were writing this book about habits and then you were staring over maybe a pile of onion rings and you thought to yourself, I just started a diet. Am I really the right person to write about habits? And so when did that realization hit you? And then what kind of self-talk got you back on the rails there?

Well, it's the kind of thing that we all feel like we have to be perfect and we have to, you know, master whatever we're writing about. But we're all human and we all have ups and downs. And, you know, I still have not mastered the habit of not eating fried food, but I have kicked ass at many other habits. And I was like, let's focus on those.

Mm-hmm.

And I've also been a coach for forever and I've helped people with their habits. So, you know, it was that little fraud complex coming up that I'm not the scientist who's discovered all the things about habits, but I do know a hell of a lot. About them.

So, well, and I've, I've read a lot of those, those scientific books about habits and I enjoy them, but I know a lot of other people don't because they're so dry. And so your book is very approachable. It's very open. Like I mentioned, there's a lot of humor. And so I think it's the perfect book for somebody who's not looking for that textbook-style book on habits. And so we'll dive into a few questions about habits specifically and about your book. But first, what were some of those personal development books or self-help books that got your engine moving?

Oh, there's so many good ones. Uh, I loved Loving What Is by Byron Katie. Um, A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson. Uh, The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Wattles. Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Uh, gosh, I know I'm forgetting so many good ones.

Um, Well, I'm always interested to see sort of what pops into your head first, you know? Yeah, because I know you've probably— how many books do you think you have read if you had to give an estimate?

Self-help books?

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, 100. Between 50 and 100. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. And I mean, it caused a very similar transformation for me. I mean, I went, you know, my late teens and early 20s from a very chaotic place to a very organized place because a lot of the books that I was reading. And so I always like to reemphasize during these podcasts that it's all about real behavior change. And so these books, you can't just read them and passively consume them. You need to implement the principles into your life. And this book, Badass Habits, gives you an excellent framework for doing exactly that, which is what I'm really excited to dive into today.

Thank you. That was one of the reasons I was excited to write it, was to make it more like a course instead of just a heaping on of information.

Yeah, yeah. No, and you have a lot of like fun examples and things, so I am sure we will touch on some of them. There is a quote right out of the introduction that I want to read to everybody listening today. It says, contrary to popular belief, habits are more about who you are being rather than what you are doing. So, what do you mean by that?

I think when we set out to change a behavior and make it a habit, we only focus on the doing of it, the no smoking or the the working out or the, you know, the actions that you take. When in reality, the real work that's going to help you take those actions in such a much more productive way is to do the inner work first.

Mm-hmm.

And I talk a lot in the book about forming the identity of somebody who already embodies that habit and really watching your words, thoughts, and beliefs because those dictate your actions. So it really is starting it from a much deeper place.

Yeah, I love that, that term identity, identity-based goals instead of outcome-based goals and identity-based living instead of outcome-based living. And that helps you stick on the tracks a little bit more. We had Jim Kwik on the podcast earlier this year, and he has this popular saying where he says, I am are the 2 most powerful words in the English language because you can create your limits or you can free yourself from those limits. Using those words. And so I know that when I first started reading, one of the biggest identity shifts that I had to go through was, I am now a reader. I am a reader. Whereas before it was like, I want to read books. I know I should, but it's so hard.

Yeah, right. Yeah, it's so true. It makes all the difference because if you identify that way, think about it. If you are a reader, it's already a habit. So it gets your whole system like, oh, it's just who I am and how I roll. I'm a reader, so I read books all the time. You know, it gets you into that. It's not such a drama to go try and read a book or to want to read a book. It really, it puts you in the place to really go do it.

Plus it's, it's probably easier to work backwards from setting that identity rather than trying to form it out of nowhere. It's like, okay, well, what would a reader be doing? A reader would be reading books. You know, if you have a little bit of free time to kill, like, well, I'm a reader, you know.

That's such a good point. It puts you, you know, it gets you into the specifics of what that person as that identity does, you know, and it also does a very important thing of you don't get into the negotiation process, which is the hugest habit killer where you negotiate like, well, I'm going to watch TV instead of read because, or, you know, or, well, I'm going to have a cigarette, you know, maybe just one puff. And if you identify as somebody who doesn't smoke, you don't even think about having a puff of a cigarette because you don't smoke and that's who you are.

Yeah, no, it's a fantastic way of living. How long have you been looking at identity-based living as opposed to maybe outcome-based goal setting and stuff like that?

Oh my gosh. 15, 20 years.

Yeah.

I mean, it is the basis of all the work that I've been teaching, you know, before this book too.

Yeah, no, I love that. Well, before we— the negotiation piece that you mentioned is definitely a question I have today because you had some pretty good stuff in the book about that. But before we go into it, there's a sort of an equation almost at the beginning of the book that you have, which is trigger plus sequence. And then that sequence is like the need-response-reward piece. Then you get into repetition a little bit, which can be added on top, and that leads to a place of like ease and patience. Then that gets you to your identity. And so as we walk through the podcast today, we'll kind of break down some of those. I wanted to start at chapter 2, which is all about healthy boundaries. You say that they're the unsung heroes of successful habits. What do you mean by that?

Gosh, you know, I think there's again starting from a much deeper level before you go and put the action steps into place is so important. And I think boundaries, I mean, quite frankly, I really wanted to write a whole book about boundaries. Just, you know, once I hit 50, I became just a ninja at them. There's something about, you really don't give a shit anymore. So, but no, I really, I felt like I had got, I'd really mastered a lot of stuff involved in making really good boundaries that I wanted to share. And I was talking to my editor and she's like, my gosh, it would be such a great addition to the Habits book to really put that in there? And I was like, oh my God, of course, because when you change a behavior, you're changing your identity, right? So then all the people around you experience this change too. And quite frankly, when you change, it's very common for the people around you to not be supportive because you're changing who you're being. You're basically killing off the identity of the person they know and love, and they are not psyched about that. So especially when you're forming habits that really shift a way of being in the world, it's so important to have good boundaries. so that you set yourself up for success, so that you create the time you need and the space you need, and, you know, you really let everybody know where you're standing. It's big.

Yeah, no, I loved this area of the book, and I have a couple of follow-up questions about boundaries because that's an area that, as I started to really go through a transformation, I felt responsible for other people. And you have this line in the book where you say You're responsible to other people, like you need to act the right way and you need to love everybody that's in your circle, kind of, but you're not responsible for them. And so there's kind of a big difference there.

Mm-hmm. And I'll tell you, this is why most people don't make the changes they want to make in their life, is because they feel so responsible to keep everybody they love and who is near and dear to them, to keep them comfortable, right? And so if you go off and decide to start a podcast and become really successful and go after your dreams, a lot of times it's people who are closest to you who make fun of you or tell you it's never going to work or all that stuff, because deep down they're losing you, you know? So it really brings up a lot of stuff. So it's something that's so, so important to get a grip on if you really want to make the changes in your life that you want to make.

Some people, they'll, they'll send me messages and say things along the lines of like personal development and self-help or self-education, especially after school. It's a lonely game sometimes because you might be the only person in your friend group that wants to stick their hand up and take new opportunities and intentionally embrace discomfort and read all these books and try out all this stuff. So what, what are some of the tips that you might have for somebody who is a little uncomfortable that nobody else is moving with them?

Yeah. I mean, first of all, you're not alone in that sense. I mean, water seeks its own level. So before you started moving forward, these were your crew. And so go find other people. We all need community. And so whatever it is, if you're— if the big move you're making is starting a podcast, like get in some kind of podcast online course or, you know, maybe there's something in your, in your town or city that has a group for entrepreneurs or, you know, find your people, get into a coaching circle or whatever. But you do need support. And that is a really big thing at the beginning is you feel so alone. And I definitely felt that way. But I joined a million women entrepreneurial groups and it saved my butt.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I started to go definitely outside of my comfort zone and sort of try to elevate the 5 people that I was spending the most time with. In those early stages, because, yeah, you, you don't want to give advice to people that aren't ready for it. And frankly, that don't need it most of the time.

Yeah. And who didn't ask for it.

Yeah, right. Yeah. So I know that I made that mistake when I first jumped into this, this sort of industry, because I found all of these amazing aha moments every time I read a book and everybody else is like, shut up. I don't need to hear about it. I don't want to hear about it.

Stop. Yeah.

Yeah. So you've got to join— your recommendation is great. It's like join a circle of people who are ready for those ideas and, and who are kind of along the same line as you. I like that. And then in this boundary section as well, you talk about you can pretty much set boundaries in every single area of your life and they can be a little bit different. And so some of the examples that you give are your body or your possessions or your beliefs, but there's a lot of different areas. So what are some of the more popular boundaries that you recommend people set in your coaching?

It really depends what it is that you are getting coached on or whatever habit you are trying to put into place. But I would say pretty much everybody has to put a boundary on their time. And so being very clear, you know, with whoever you are spending time with, you know, you got a hard out or, you know, offering your time for them, you know, really You need to keep your energy strong. You know, if you're really going to make changes, you have to be a little selfish. And that's okay. You know, it doesn't mean you totally cut other people out of your life. But I would say time is a really, a really big one. Energy is a really big one. You know, and then it just really depends on what it is you're doing.

Yeah, I really enjoy that. I know for a long time I struggled with saying no, and I was very bad at saying no. And so in the book you have a ton of great recommendations for people, especially around time. I mean, time is really tough. Let's say you want to stay in on a Friday night and read a book because you're starting a business and all of your friends say, no, come out for just a drink. And like, what are some of the recommendations that you have for gracefully saying no to people?

Well, I think, you know, again, you're responsible to people, you're not responsible for them. So if you say, you know, I'm, I'm really excited about this project I'm working on, I'm staying in to to read, but let's hang out next week on Wednesday. That's your responsibility, is to be clear, to show them that you care. You are not responsible for them, whether or not they freak out and call you no fun and throw a temper tantrum. That's not your problem. As long as you're being a good friend, that's, that's all you can do.

Yeah. And then when you also made this point in the book that I really liked, which is that once you sort of take a stance and you put your foot in the ground, And you start telling people no or yes, but you start telling people no in your inner circle, they'll start to see that and gain a little bit of confidence themselves. So it almost like ripples out. It's a little bit contagious when you get that sort of no-type swagger about yourself.

I love that. Yeah. And also boundaries help everybody. Like, I think especially with the no boundary, you know, when you say too much yes and you start saying no, we feel like we're being mean to people or we're cutting them off or whatever. And, um, Man, it's such a gift when somebody's clear with you. When people say yes when they really want to say no, they get resentful, they get passive-aggressive, and then there's all this like murky weirdness and nobody knows what the hell's going on. Whereas if you just set a clear boundary, it may at first be a little chafey, but then at least everybody knows where they stand. And I think, you know, you really gotta understand that's giving a gift to both of you because nobody likes to be on either side of that.

Yeah, one thing that, that I've I've noticed in my life is that it took a lot of confidence for the first few nos to get out there into the world, but then you gain a little bit of confidence with that itself. Like, it becomes easier to say no to things that you don't want to do in the future once you have a couple under your belt. And so it's not extremely awkward and tense every time you say no. It's like, yeah, you care a lot about what other people think, and then you start to care a little bit less as you move down that road.

So. Isn't it nice?

It is nice.

Yeah, it's like a muscle, like anything else. All this self-development work is— it's repetition and doing it over and over, and then you just get better and better at it, and the drama goes away.

And you mentioned earlier in our conversation that, that sort of with age now, all of a sudden you don't care what anybody else thinks. And so what is that feeling like? Like, I'm definitely not there yet.

I, I know, you know, and you don't have to wait till you're 50, but I just really noticed The older I got, the easier it got. And again, I really think it's that repetition that we were just talking about. You know, the more you do it, the more you realize that it actually is a gift to everybody. And running around trying to please everybody, by the way, doesn't work anyway, because you have no idea what the hell they're thinking. So, if you're exhausting yourself trying to make sure everybody's okay and never taking care of yourself, you're exhausted, and half the time they didn't even notice. So, you start to wake up and be like, you know what? It's a big fat waste of my time. I'm just gonna serve up a big old no and call it a day.

And then on the opposite side of the spectrum, for the people that don't have invitations pouring in from every direction, you also give advice for people who need to say yes a little bit more often. And we had Vanessa Van Edwards on the show and she talked a little bit, you know, she calls herself a recovering awkward person and she has some advice for people who maybe need to get out there a little bit more and socialize. So do you have any advice for those people? who need to own their yeses, not just their nos?

Well, look at why you're saying no all the time and what is the fear around it. You know, people often say no because they don't want to get hurt or they don't want to be exposed. And this is sort of the cosmic joke of being a human being, is the pain— the things you do to, to try to avoid a certain kind of pain are the very things that usher in that kind of pain. So if you're saying No to going on a blind date because you're scared of intimacy and you don't want to get hurt, you end up spending all your time alone and hurt because you don't have intimacy. So it's really, you know, if you start to deconstruct it and look at what you're afraid of, you can realize you're actually already causing it. And so that might make it easier to say yes more easily.

Yeah, no, I really like that piece of advice. And that's something that I definitely went through and resonate with in a big way. We'll transition over to a little, a little quote that I thought was pretty funny in the book. You said that perfectionism is procrastination in a fancy outfit. So what is that all about? I know a lot of us, especially myself, suffer with various forms of procrastination.

Yeah, I think perfectionism, you're pretending everything has to be perfect before you can start, but you're really just scared to death to start. So it's a very easy out. Like, You know, if you've decided everything needs to look perfect or sound perfect or be perfect, then you don't have to start. So it's just busting you on that.

How does that relate to— there are a lot of aspiring authors in the audience, and so I'm sure you go through that process or went through that process when you first decided to become a published author, which is a little bit different than maybe writing on blogs and things like that. So do you have to get over that hump as a writer?

I couldn't tell you because I still haven't done it. I was just on a podcast before this with another writer, and I was like, I don't know about you, but I get my contract and they give you about 8 months to write the book and I do nothing for the first 6 and a half or 7 and I write all of my books in a month. But, you know, it's so procrastinating, as long as you do it. I know I'm gonna do it. If I procrastinated to the point where I blew through my deadline and didn't write it for the next 10 years, that would be a thing. But I have tried with every book to do it a different way and it's like, you know what, this is how I am and it's working, so I'm just not gonna worry about it.

So for you, it's not a matter of perfectionism being the thing that holds you up. It's just like, you got, you know, you have too much time. That might be the—

My couch is too comfortable. No, I just, I thrive under pressure. I'm a sprint runner. And I think this is interesting because people in my industry often talk about life balance. And I feel like for me, I like doing things in really intense spurts and then relaxing in intense spurts. You know, I'm not one of those people who has daily balance. So, and I know a lot of, especially writers who are like that.

Okay. So now we're at a point where people, they understand a little bit more about how to set some boundaries. They're saying yes, they're saying no, they're protecting their time. They're excited. They want to focus on a new identity. And there's a quote here that says, focus your attention on the desires fueling the habit, not on the habit yourself, which is kind of related to what we talked a little bit about earlier. What are some basic areas of life, if this is the first time somebody is jumping into habit formation, what are some basic areas in your life that you could start to improve on?

Oh my God.

Everything?

I mean, depending on who you are, yeah. I mean, I think a good place to look is because if you are a normal human being, you have got several areas of your life that you could use a little love. And I think the one that you complain about the most actually is probably a good place to start because that's obviously the one that's driving you nuts the most. So you got to start somewhere and just pick something that would make a big shift in your life and that would make you real happy and understand that you will get to the rest later. It doesn't mean you do this and you can't do the others, but just get started.

One tool for implementing a habit that you talk about in the book is mantras. And so what is a mantra for anybody in the audience that's not familiar with it?

A mantra is just something that you repeat over and over to yourself. And, you know, I heard a great thing about how worrying is actually a mantra, you know, and before you can write a mantra to help you with your habit, it's very good to look at the mantras you're already working with that have kept you from having that habit. So in this book and in all my other books, I talk about how my mantra used to be, I can't afford it. And when I decided, you know, when I busted myself on that, I was like, well, no wonder I don't have any money because I always say I can't afford it. So one of the first things I did was every time I wanted to say that, I would say money flows to me easily and freely. And it was that shifting of the mantra and trying to prove that to myself and looking for proof of that that really started to shift my reality.

Was there a specific book or something that taught you about mantras or that taught you about that switch between I can't afford it and, you know, money flows to me easily and freely? Like, Was there something that happened or did that just come as a culmination of everything you were learning?

You know, I can't remember. I think a lot of books talk about just, you know, what you focus on, you create more of. And so if I'm focusing on the fact that I can't afford it, I'll just keep proving that over and over to myself. If I focus on money being easy and fun and free, then I'll start proving that to myself. Yeah.

A couple of the books you mentioned earlier, like Think and Grow Rich and The Science of Getting Rich, those books talk a lot about You know, creating this energy in your life and stating to the universe what your new desire is. And yeah, it is kind of funny. I mean, after getting into this industry and reading all these books, that law of attraction is pretty real. Like you could definitely manifest some of that stuff in your life.

I know. It's like you make fun of it your whole life until you're like, I'm so desperate, I'll even try that stupid idea. And then you're like, wait a minute, this actually works. My experience anyway.

Yeah, well, what's great about— what's great about writing a book about habits and talking about mantras and affirmations is that you are following up with commitment and you are putting a system in place that sits behind the, you know, like the woo-woo self-help stuff. So yeah, it's a really cool balance. And I like that you included that in there because I think it's important.

Thank you.

There is a story in your book about a woman who started getting manicures because she bites her nails. And a little vulnerability moment for me. I still bite my nails and I can't figure out how to stop. Now, I guess I've never really tried putting an alternative habit in place, but I don't want any nail polish on my fingers. So is there any recommendation that you'd have for me?

Hmm. Well, I would start with really getting clear on when, when you bite them. You know, it's really about busting yourself in the act and being like, when are you drawn to put your hands in your mouth and noticing those moments and seeing if there's anything that you can shift in those moments or that you can block yourself from doing it? Like, is there a moment that you notice that you do that mostly?

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I'll have to be a little bit more present with it. I think whenever I notice it, it's like after the fact for sure.

They used to make that stuff, because I used to bite my nails too, they used to make that stuff that tastes really bad that you put on your fingernails so it wakes you up to the fact that you're— it's like a sour taste. So that would help you at least start noticing when it happens and think like, oh, I always do it when I'm reading or whatever. And And then you can be on the lookout when you read and put another habit in place there.

All right. I'm going to go on Amazon after our conversation and get some of that because I've read about it.

Yeah.

That's awesome. And, and I mentioned the mantras, but there's, there's a word that you love. I guess it's not really a mantra. It's the word ease. And so how does ease play into habit formation and building?

It's huge. And it's— and this is another thing, like, I really do feel like a lot of this stuff is very kind of a no-brainer once you really start thinking about it. But we just, we're so in the habit of being on autopilot, especially with things that we aren't happy about. We just get into these ruts and we just sort of go through life. But the second you stop and start paying attention, you can make better choices, right? So that is what a lot of this is, is sort of waking up to your reality and then giving yourself the power to change it. And with ease, when you've got a new habit that you want, and let's say you want to start going to the gym, 3 times a week. You want to make it as easy as possible. It sounds really stupid and really like a no-brainer, but this is all about getting into the specifics of habit formation. So how can you make that as easy as possible? Pick a gym right next to your house, you know, find a workout buddy, lay your clothes out the night before, you know, really push yourself to come up with like 10 or 15 ways to make it as easy as possible because Things that are easier, we will just do them more. And the same with if you're trying to quit something, make it as big of a pain in the butt as you can and it'll be easier for you to quit.

Yeah. Ease is a very, very important word, I think. So that's, that's great to recognize. We'll transition back to something that we talked a little bit about earlier, which is negotiating, especially with yourself. You know, that's the purpose of what you were talking about. And you have this 0-second rule in the book. So what's that all about?

So the biggest downfall for a lot of habits is when you get into what I call the negotiation process, where you're like, well, I'm just gonna lie in bed today. It's raining. I don't want to go to the gym, or I'm just gonna have one drag of a cigarette. You know, you start that negotiation process with yourself, and this does go back to the identity part that I was talking about. But because you are serious about habit formation and you're doing all, you know, putting the specifics in place, One of the other things you have to become aware of is when you start negotiating, which you will, we all do. And then you're like, oh, I'm negotiating, just slam the door. Like you don't even, it's like you cannot negotiate at all because that is, you know, one crack in your resolve and the floodgates open. So you've got to really call yourself on those negotiations and be on the lookout and then just new topic.

Yeah, it's interesting. I read, I read somewhere and I can't, for whatever reason, remember where right now, but I read this funny thing that basically said like, when you're negotiating with yourself, state it out loud. And so there was one morning after I read that where I was going to snooze my alarm and you kind of state it out loud with a reason. And so I think I said like, I want— I'm going to hit my alarm and go back to sleep for 15 minutes because I'm lazy or something like that. And then when you state it out loud, you're like, wow, that was dumb. I think I'm going to get up now.

That's a great idea. Damn, I wish you'd given me that before I wrote the book.

Comes out in 2 weeks, so I guess probably a little bit late, huh? Yeah, I can't remember where it came from, but yeah, the negotiation piece with yourself.

You know, because otherwise you're just in the autopilot habit of it. You're not thinking. It's that awareness that changes everything.

Hello, Book Thinkers family. A quick word from today's podcast sponsor. Today's episode is sponsored by Audible. Audible is the leading provider of spoken word entertainment and audiobooks ranging from bestsellers to celebrity memoirs, business, and my favorite, personal development. And as part of Audible's partnership with us, we're actually offering listeners a free 30-day trial. This trial includes 1 credit good for any premium selection titles you'd like on the whole platform. So that's pretty much any book, including the one we're talking about today. That book is yours to keep even after the trial is over. Now, this trial also includes access to Audible's Plus catalog of podcasts, audiobooks, guided wellness programs, and Audible Originals. You can listen all you want, no credits needed. Now, everyone on the Book Thinkers Instagram knows that I love physical paper books. There's nothing better than having a book in your hand, scribbling notes everywhere in the margins. I kind of tear those things up. But I've been completing an additional 20 to 30 books every single year using Audible by listening when I'm in the car, doing chores around the house, or while I'm on my morning walks or runs. You could take advantage of this free trial by clicking the link in today's show notes or going to www.bookthinkers.com/audibletrial. You will not regret it. Now back to today's episode. Yeah, and the, you know, when I was talking about the nails earlier and you mentioned it, maybe that stuff that you could put on your fingers that tastes bad, it makes you more aware of when it's happening.

Yeah.

I think awareness is extremely important in personal development. Like you mentioned before, yeah, it's all very simple, it's all very easy, most of it's common sense, but it's the act of becoming more aware of it, which is why I think a lot of us are reading these books.

Yeah, exactly.

I have a lot of friends and family that'll tell me, I'll maybe recommend a book to them and then I'll follow up afterwards. If they're receptive to it, I'll recommend a book and then I'll follow up and they'll say, yeah, I already knew all of that, but I did make a change. It's like, okay, that's why, that's why I recommended the book here. Yeah. It's to bring that awareness up. What other things do you do to generate awareness? Is there any, are there any other tips and tricks in your life that you use to generate awareness?

Meditation is great because it really builds that muscle of busting yourself just of when you're thinking, you know, you, you don't even realize it when you're trying to, you know, get present. And then all of a sudden you're like thinking about 10 billion things. You're like, I'm meditating here. I can't be. So it sort of pulls, 'cause that's such an easy one to, to, um, to get into. And, um—

How long have you been meditating?

On and off for 25 years, probably.

Oh, wow. Yeah, I always say on and off too. I started meditating maybe 5 years ago, and I think I followed through for a full year, and then there were a couple other times that I definitely did a few months in a row, but I'm off the train right now. I should get back on it. Yeah, you can create a little bit more space between sort of a worldly event and then your reaction to it, which definitely helps a little bit.

Yeah.

What, um, you talk a little bit about rewards as part of the habit formation piece. So what is the role of rewards and maybe what are some ways that you reward yourself for implementing new habits?

You know, I think it's, you know, again, it's kind of a no-brainer. If you have some big juicy reward at the end of something, you're more likely to do it. But I also think in our culture we're big on whining about our failures and not celebrating our successes. So I really love this idea for that reason. And it doesn't have to be a big thing, but it's just like, you know, for me, when I finish a certain amount of writing, then I get to go take a walk. Or, you know, it can just be little— you get to call a friend, or you get to have some chocolate, or, you know, whatever it is. But just sort of— Mark your success is really important, especially with habits, because a lot of times, you know, flossing your teeth every day is not the most exciting thing and doesn't really have a big reward at the end sometimes. So it's like, you know, providing that can be really nice.

Speaking of flossing, I think in the book you said that like habit stacking, kind of combining habits together, you're like, oh, well, every morning you're probably going to sit down on the toilet. So if you just put your floss sticks next to to the toilet, you'll kind of increase the chances you're going to do it because you're leveraging another habit that's already in place.

Yeah, that's a big one. It's so easy because you're already doing it. And we have so many things that we do all the time. Like I make myself drink a huge glass of water every morning before I have coffee.

On the water piece, which you mentioned a few minutes ago, I, in the book Own the Day, Own Your Life by Aubrey Marcus, he says that waking up in the morning and then putting coffee down your throat is basically like waking up with a fire alarm instead of an alarm clock. Which I thought was a really funny metaphor.

But it's such a tasty fire alarm.

It is a tasty fire alarm. Yeah. But that water is probably so good for you. I'm not sure. I'm not sure why, but I know it is.

Because you're made of water.

Because, yeah, we're like 80% water. One last one, one or two more questions for you. You end the book with this line that says, self-love isn't about being perfect. So what do you mean by that?

It's about loving yourself when you do stupid things, when you say mean things, when you screw things up. You know, I think we're all so hard on ourselves. You know, I think that's actually one of the biggest problems human beings have with our consciousness is we're so geared towards the negative and towards the self-loathing. And it's such a waste of time. You know, we learn it when we're born. We're all about the self-love and we don't even know about the self yet. And then we just learn how to just pick ourselves apart. So it is about that unlearning of all of that negativity that really allows us to be, do, and have the things we want in life. Super important.

Yeah, you can build a lot of very productive habits in that direction. Did you see that Netflix documentary that came out recently, The Social Dilemma?

I loved it.

Yeah, it was very, very interesting.

And terrifying.

And terrifying, yeah. There are a lot of habits that I'm sure we we should be implementing that can help us regulate the social media because it's becoming more addicting by the day.

Yeah, they really, they really honed in on our little rat pellet brains, you know?

Yeah, they did. Are there any habits that, that you're actively paying attention to around social media use, or is that not really an issue for you?

You know, I'm not that into it. I'm sort of a little older, so you probably are screwed. You know, I can't imagine what it would be like to grow up in that world. I mean, it's, it's pretty intense. So I, I, I sort of escaped it just because of my age, but you know, for what I have going on, I should probably have a much bigger social media presence, but I just don't because it doesn't make me feel good. I mean, my team helps me with it, but I just, I don't, I don't love it very much. But how do you feel about it?

Well, I was, I was always sort of anti-social media. So I'm 26 years old. And in my— during my college experience, I was the guy who didn't have Snapchat, who deleted his personal Facebook, who didn't have a personal Instagram. And then having started this business, I'm getting more into social media.

Yeah.

I say in my head that it's for business, but I also get lost in it sometimes. So.

Sure, sure.

Yeah. We had, uh, we had another guest on the show, Nir Eyal, who wrote a book called Indistractable. And he talks a lot about how you can control your focus and control your attention. And so I've taken some steps in the right direction. I got to make sure it doesn't overwhelm me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's interesting because it's a great tool. It's just, uh, it's not my jam.

Well, it's great that you're— and I know you have a team, but it's great that your books have done so well without, you know, you getting super into social media because a lot of authors now Think that they have to develop a huge social presence. But if you write a good book and you're entertaining, and in your case, and you're funny and you're just a good writer, then, then you could still succeed as an author.

If your timing is excellent too. I mean, I got, I really was very lucky with the timing. Yeah. And that is it. I don't have to, so I don't, but I, I understand that it's a great, great, great tool and absolutely can do some wonderful things.

Yeah, it's almost like—

I don't have to, so I'm not going to do it.

Yeah, it's almost like Amazon now for authors is their form of social media. Like Amazon owns Goodreads and Amazon reviews kind of drive the world. So I'm sure a lot of authors are paying attention to that, but you shouldn't watch your Amazon reviews every day, I would imagine.

You shouldn't watch any reviews every day at all. You know, that'll, that's a great way to go insane.

So kind of last, last big question for you here. Our audience includes a lot of young professionals. And so you're an entrepreneur, you're a very successful author. What advice would you have for your younger self if you knew that you wanted to be this successful entrepreneur and personality?

Do things that scare the crap out of you on a regular basis. I mean, that's, you know, when I was launching my business back in the day, I did stuff all the time that I did not want to do. And that's sort of how you know you're on the right track, if it makes you cringe. So, you know, it's obviously got to be, it's not like jumping off of a bridge, but something that's in the direction of your dreams that is super challenging and scary. And that's usually the place where you'll have the big old leap, you know, like hiring the coach, paying a lot of money for the office space you need, or, you know, whatever, like up, up in your game. Yeah.

Set bigger goals, run, run at the comfort zone. I really like that.

And you'll know you're headed in the right direction if you're scared out of your mind.

For everybody listening, there's a TED Talk by Tim Ferriss about fear setting, which is really good. Jen, have you seen that before?

No, but I like that term, fear setting.

Fear setting. Yeah, I think he— I won't go too far in depth and spoil anything, but it's a, it's a pretty good exercise and you could create a habit around doing it, you know, Frequently. Jen, for people who want to learn more about you or the book, I know there's a ton more in there that we didn't get to cover today. So there's a lot of value that we left for potential readers here. Where should they go? What should they do? How do people get in touch?

They can go to youareabadass.com or jensincero.com, J-E-N-S-I-N-C-E-R-O.com. They both go to the same place and all the info is on my website.

Amazing.

Or you can follow me on social media, but it's not that fun.

You'll get that third-party view of you. It'll be what you've created in the past that your team is pushing out. But we'll have everybody go to the website. I'll put the website in the show notes and a link to the book on Amazon. And thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it today.

Thank you so much. It was really fun.

That is a wrap. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this week's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books. To discover more books, more mentors, and more resources that you can use to achieve more and live better, make sure you check out our website at www.bookthinkers.com. There you'll find links to our mobile application, more podcast episodes, our shop so you can get some Book Thinkers swag, and our socials. With that, I'm signing off and I'll see you for next week's episode of Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books.