Life-Changing Books Podcast Episode 64. Jim Miller: Author of Budgeting Doesn't Have to Suck

Jim Miller, thank you so much for coming on the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. How are you doing today?

I'm good. Thank you. How are you doing, Nick?

I'm doing really well. I've enjoyed getting to know you a little bit over the last couple of months. And I just went through your book, Budgeting Doesn't Have to Suck. And I thought the first place we could start with today's conversation is why 2 versions of the book, right? You've got 2013, and now you have a second edition. So what's that all about?

Yeah, that's a good question to open with. So when I first wrote the book, you know, it was, it was really to be a tool for young adults to kind of set up their budgets and, and to kind of get a start in the personal finance world. I don't think anything like this existed. And after 7 years, it needed a tune-up. More specifically, you know, when I wrote the second edition, we were at the very beginning of this pandemic in the year 2020. I think I started writing it in March of 2020. And there were a lot of people, a lot of good people without jobs, young people who were scared, who didn't know what to do. And I found myself answering these questions on my, on my blog and in speaking engagements and things like that, podcasts. So, hey, why don't I put it into the book and create a new chapter to help people that are basically starting with nothing? And then, you know, take it from there.

Well, I love this subject at the beginning of the book. If you just lost your job, here are tons of subjects that might be able to help you. And so the Book Thinkers audience is pretty diverse, but it's primarily young professionals based in the US, ages 18 to 34, somewhere in that age bracket. That age bracket got hit specifically pretty hard with the recent pandemic. And I think we're starting to get out of it a little bit, but let's go into some of those subjects. Now, the primary purpose of this book is to show everybody that's reading it that managing and growing money can be fun. But if you just lost your job, you might not be viewing it that way. So there are some fun concepts in that chapter. The first one that I wanted to bring up was eat quality food. I thought that was a cool one to kick off the section with.

Becoming financially successful and creating a better path for yourself financially, whether you want to be the richest person in the world or whether you just want to, you know, have a life stress-free and not have to worry about money so much. You want to focus on the 9 financial ways to get more money as well. So that could be, you know, creating goals, exercising, networking, reading, creating, and those are things we can talk about. But eating clean is a huge one. You know, if you're going to eat junk food every day or often, you're going to feel like garbage and you're not going to have the confidence to do what you want to do. Maybe to ask for a raise or ask for a new job. If you go to an interview, you won't show up the same way. So all these things just connect— all these non-financial things really just connect people to more luck and a better financial future. You know, if you eat clean, you'll look better. Does not have to cost more. Absolutely not. And it's just— it's going to attract more good things to you.

Yeah, I often tell people when, when I'm sort of playing a little bit of a life coach or when I'm giving advice that the first step you should really focus on is getting better sleep and eating better food because you'll make better decisions in everything you do throughout the day. will be improved. You'll have more willpower, you'll have more concentration and mental stamina, you'll be more articulate, you'll present better, you'll be— all of it, all of it sort of compounds.

It's all related. Yeah, it's amazing. And, you know, it's funny how many people don't realize that. It took me a long time to realize it as well. But, you know, if you focus on those things, you know, having a good morning routine, well, in order to have a good morning routine, you need to have a good evening routine. Or to have a good evening routine. You know, it's just all connected and you need to, it's just, it's so important. I think it's just as important, if not more important, than setting up the kind of some of the other stuff we talk about and we'll get into, but you know, about budgeting and things like that.

When I was thinking of our conversation, I was running through it in my head. I like to visualize a lot, a successful outcome before I jump into an activity. And I was thinking, how funny is that? We're going into a book about budgeting and I wanna bring up food. as the first item for discussion, but it makes total sense to me.

That's great.

And I think it's a great place to start. So you just lost your job or you're in a moment of transition and you need to start thinking about your sleep. You need to start thinking about eating cleaner. One of the other things that you just mentioned is create, don't consume. And I thought that was brilliant because there are a lot of— there's a lot of negative momentum generated in passive activity that doesn't lead to any potential wealth in the future, like a Netflix or mindless social media. So don't consume, create. Could you talk about that for a minute?

Yeah, that's a huge one for me. And if you, you know, I have a 9-year-old son. If you talk to him, kind of the number one thing I beat into his brain, it's create more than you consume. So if he's sitting down there watching iPad for 2 hours, it's like, hey, go create something. And whether you're drawing a picture or whatever you're going to do, same thing translates to adults. So when you're consuming, and we all do, and that's fine, of course. I mean, reading is technically consuming, although I kind of put that on the border because you're learning at the same time, but you're just turning off your brain in a sense. And we all need to do that sometimes, whether it's through meditation or exercise or whatever it is. But people often get in a rut where they consume too much and that slows down your neural pathways. It's going to make you less creative. It's just going to slow down, if not shut down, everything you're trying accomplish or that you should be accomplishing. So by creating more, hey, you love watching videos on your phone, create some. They don't have to be amazing. Put on your camera and make people laugh or teach people something or share something about your day, but add some value. It could be anything from painting to writing music, but the creation is so important. Of course, the goal in life is to find something you enjoy creating that you can make a living from and it can make you happy. So ultimately, if If you find that along that path, then all the better. But yeah, always, always kind of keep tabs and, you know, am I creating more than I'm consuming? And if not, you know, give yourself a little boost and come up with some ways to develop that.

Yeah, Book Thinkers is a great representation of that because my first videos were awful. And I get hit up by a lot of, I guess, aspiring content creators, and they'll tell me, Hey, respect the size of your audience, really love what you guys have going on. But the one thing that I can't see myself doing is creating video content. I stink behind the camera. And I love telling people where I started. You can't get to video 100 without the first 99. And each one of those first 99, I mean, the first took 30 attempts, the, you know, the next couple dozen took 20 attempts, the next couple dozen took 10 attempts. It took me a long time to get there.

Absolutely.

And so you gotta get that practice and repetition in, and it's a great way. if you find yourself in a moment of transition to try something new.

And that's what separates successful people from people who struggle more. So you didn't wait for everything to be perfect. You said, we're going to get this out, you know, I've got something of value, or you're just motivated to create and to kind of build momentum. So you get it out there before it's perfect. And, you know, for anyone who's waiting for perfection, turn that part of your brain off because that's not the way you do it. What you just described, Nick, is Exactly what people should be doing.

Yeah. And in that section of the book, you did mention read a lot of books. And so I'd love to ask you a question about that in a moment, but I did want to comment on something you just said too and unpack it a bit. You said that reading is sort of on the fringe between creating and consuming. And so you're totally right about that. If you read a book and it goes in one ear and out the other ear and you don't change your behavior, then there is no difference between Budgeting doesn't have to suck in a video game. There's no difference. But if you start to implement that information, you're going from the consumption into the creation, and you're changing your life. And so that's, that's a really cool thing that you brought up.

Yeah, it's a great observation. And, you know, just like you said, you have to be engaged. 2 people can read the same book. 2 people can read the same book at the right point in their lives. And they can have very different outcomes because one person's trying to get through it so they can tell themselves or their Facebook followers, whatever it is, hey, I read a book today. Another person is reading that book and their brain's thinking, how can I apply this to my life? What can I make better? Okay, that makes sense for me. That doesn't. This isn't so good. This is great. And that's the difference. So it's the engaged reading. And the reason I say and believe that it's kind of on the fence, you're consuming a book, of course, but just like you said, if you're engaged reading, it's a different story. And your brain is activated.

So I don't think of that as the same way as just Jim, you just mentioned with the books that you can implement a lot of information and it can change your life. And one way that you can do that, especially if you're in a moment of transition, is to start a side hustle. And a side hustle can lead to a second stream of income. So, what's that all about?

Yeah. So, it's really important. So, a side hustle is the term most people use, so we'll call it that, but it's a way to diversify your income. And as you hear, you hear that term a lot in the financial world, right? So, you have a You want to diversify your portfolio. So you've got— you're invested in multiple areas. So if one doesn't do so well, the other one does. You've got a hedge. You're protected there a little bit. And same thing with your personal income. You could lose your job tomorrow. Your company could go through a 3-month slump, whatever it is. So you want to diversify so you have different streams of income. And I think the real opportunity from something like a side hustle is that it gives you a chance to explore Your passions, if you will, or explore things and kind of test things that— to see if you like it.

Yeah, the entrepreneur and I guess social media icon now, Gary Vaynerchuk, he always says when you're coming out of school, remember that you're young and you have a lot to explore. And so get a full-time job that feeds into your side hustle, work on your side hustle every night when you get home. Until it can replace your full-time income. That's a smarter way than jumping off the cliff without your parachute built and trying to construct it on the way down because you won't be operating from a place of scarcity and making crazy emotional decisions. So that's a great way to phrase it.

Yeah, that's really smart. And, you know, whatever your age is, you always want to swing big. So, you know, like you said, Gary just described, you know, do your day job. You don't have to jump off and lose everything or invest your life savings. test it out in the evenings, work hard, and, you know, but ultimately go for it, swing big.

It's another representation of how Book Thinkers was created. I always say that I had a 9 to 5 and then this was my 5 to 9, you know, for many, many, many years. But here I am. And that transitions into the next subject, which is something that you talked about in the book, self-control and delayed gratification, short versus long-term thinking. So how does that play into this?

Yeah, well, so self-control is like, sort of like you said, you want to delay short-term gratification for long-term results, in essence. And it's important to think that way because to a lot of people, self-control means I'm not going to, whatever, eat this burrito today, or, you know, I'm going to hold off on these cookies or these, this case of beer, whatever it is. And those are examples of self-control. But you need to be focused on the bigger picture. So it all ties back to having a why. Have something bigger that you care about. And in financial terms, what that means is, do I need to buy this now? A lot of finance people, myself included, have trained our brains to think of the future value of money. So when we're looking at a purchase, maybe it's a $5,000 purchase on XYZ. But to a person who thinks ahead and a financial thinker, That's a $50,000 purchase because that's what that money is going to be worth in 15 years if I had invested it. And so, yeah, it's really important just to tie that all together and use discipline in the short term so that in the long term, you can sort of appreciate those rewards.

Now, when people are thinking about budgeting, they typically think about cutting expenses. And I don't want to get into that today, but there's a line at the end of the book actually where you say your budget should represent your values. So when you start thinking about, okay, should I buy that $5 latte or should I invest How do you make some of those decisions?

I would say that if I were to rename my book, I would call it Finding Your True Values and Aligning That with Your Financial Future, because that's what it's really about. So a lot of people go through the exercise of budgeting, and like you said, it's not a pleasant word. People think of it as just restrictive, or they use the phrase like, I'm on a budget, meaning someone's struggling financially. Totally wrong. Billion-dollar companies have budgets. Billion-dollar people have budgets, whether they direct it or they pay someone else to do it. When a lot of people start to set up a budget, they create this world that isn't real to them. You know, they'll cut out all the restaurants or the, the going out and all the stuff that they enjoy, and then a week later they fail and they're off the budget completely. So what people really need to do truly is to take a deep look at what's important to them. You know, maybe you're a young person and restaurants and clothing are a financial priority for you. And if so, that's great. Have your budget reflect it. You need to get to that phase and go through that phase first if you're going to have a budget that's going to work. I can tell you everything about a person by looking at what they spend their money on. The same goes for a business or a country. I can look through your bank statements and credit cards and show what you value. And for a lot of people, they might do that reflection and they won't that won't agree with their values. And that's when you want to make a change, right? So I'm spending more, you know, on restaurants than I am saving for my education, or I'm, you know, spending more on bars than the quality of food I eat. So all those types of things, you know, often need a tune-up. But make sure when you do those tune-ups, you do it in a way that is realistic and makes sense for you and allows you to stay on track.

Yeah, when, when I started to get into the personal finance world, I think it was in the book I Will Teach You to Be Rich by Ramit Sethi that I, I started to think, you know, cut ruthlessly on things that you don't care about and overspend on things that do align with your values. And for me, I started to realize that I was spending the same amount of money at bars and restaurants internationally as I was domestically, but I was way more fulfilled in discovering and embracing discomfort internationally than I was in the US. So I just sat back and it was very easy for me to say, I need to cut ruthlessly on the social experiences that I'm having in the US because I've been doing that for 10 years. And I need to spend lavishly on that same experience, but just internationally because it's leading to better memory dividends. That's a term that I like. It's leading to better experiences. And that's just one representation for people listening on how to apply that kind of thinking.

That's awesome. I love that. I mean, there are, what, 86,400 seconds in every day and 100 pennies in every dollar. And the only thing that matters is what we do with what we have of each of them. And it sounds like you realize that and you kind of made a shift. And that's what more people need to do to be successful.

Yeah. And you make a distinction in the book between things you don't need and things that are unhealthy. And so when somebody is in a moment of transition, they can sit back and they can use those 2 magnifying glasses, I suppose, to look at their budgets and say, I've got to cut things I don't need and I've got to cut things that are unhealthy.

And that's kind of where I recommend people jump into this whole process. Even if you're, you're rich and you got money falling out of your pockets, you want to structure a financial plan. So you start and you look at where you're spending and then you assess your values. What's really important to you? Be honest with yourself, get that done. But then you do want to make some cuts. And just like you said, Nick, what am I spending money on that I don't need? All kinds of examples there. What am I spending money on that's unhealthy? What can I get rid of? What's not serving me? And get rid of those things before you start building your financial path or the next step, which for most people is increasing income and diversifying income and automating savings and investing and doing all that stuff, you want to have your skeleton built first. And part of that skeleton is carving away stuff that, that doesn't serve you, that's not good for you. So that's critical for everyone at any stage.

There are 2 more things I want to ask you about before we jump off today, Jim. So yeah, I'm, I'm in the process of starting to evaluate where I want to sort of settle down and plant my roots, right? Location, location, location. And in the book, you say it matters a lot. And funny enough, I read a couple of books on my most recent trip to St. Lucia. Yours was one of them. But then I also read The Almanac of Naval Ravikant. And in there, Naval says that people choose their location with too much urgency. They choose it too fast. They don't spend enough time meditating on where they want to live. Where you live drastically changes the rest of your life.

Absolutely.

And so, I'm happy that you addressed that in the book. And so, Different states in the US, for our US listeners, have different tax structures, income brackets. It's very different on what you're going to earn because of personal income tax, like Florida and Texas and New Hampshire and a few other states don't have personal income tax. So there's such wildly different, I guess, outcomes financially on where you're living. And I'm happy that you brought that up in the book.

Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I don't think anyone's ever mentioned that before. And it is so important. I have, you know, I help a lot of people just, just for free and kind of talk to people that follow me and things like that and give some advice. And a lot of the time, what comes up is someone, hey, I've got a family, or, hey, I'm a young person, I just finished college and I can't really afford where I live. And my advice to them is move.

Yeah.

Consider moving unless there's something of value in that place that really matters to you. So, one area, one thing I want to caution people on is people often hear about the Floridas and the Texas where there's no state income tax. But they compensate for those taxes in other ways, maybe not as drastically as a place like California where I live here in Los Angeles, but, you know, the sales taxes might be higher or there might be add-on taxes or the property taxes. So there's things you want to look at that full picture before you make a decision. For me, I value the weather a lot. I grew up in Chicago and I moved to Southern California because I just wasn't built for cold and clouds. I have a completely Different mindset. And I'm a completely different person when I'm kind of in a sunny environment and palm trees and that sort of thing. But, you know, hey, I think about moving all the time. I'm thinking about it right now. You know, you hear about a lot of billionaires, millionaires, successful people, you know, live in Florida or Puerto Rico. Certainly Texas, of course, has been popular the last 10 years especially. So I think that's something for people to consider when you're really looking at your full financial picture. Put everything on the table, and that should include where you live. Yeah.

Yeah. And I just did 3 months in Austin, Texas at the end of last year where a lot of people from LA are moving. And it's beautiful. And compared to LA or Boston, you can go purchase a property for 2 or 3 square feet for every square foot you get in the cities that we currently live in. And the weather's just as nice, certainly better than where I am in Boston. And Yeah, Puerto Rico is a really popular one. Like, I know a lot of YouTubers and sort of famous people are getting down to Puerto Rico now and relocating. Logan Paul just went, and then a few other people. So super cool to think about. And it's also freeing. I mean, nowadays with Zoom and how efficient commercial air travel is domestically in the US, right? You know, a 3-hour plane ride is the same as a 3-hour car ride. It's not too difficult these days.

Absolutely. And I think we'll see a lot more of that. And hey, nothing spurred it more than this pandemic, you know, that happened in 2020. You know, it's given new flexibility. I think especially the young people have really tacked on to that. So, we're going to see the cities, I think that entire landscape change, especially as, you know, the younger generation kind of grows up over the next 20, 30 years.

Yeah, I think so too. Well, we might both see each other in Florida. Because I think that's where I'm gonna end up. Um, one, one final thing to talk about today. So I think for people who showed up and did want some actionable budgeting advice, and a lot of this was actionable, but for somebody who's looking for a tool to implement or something like that, I thought it would be interesting to talk a little bit about personal finance technology. Because here we are, it's 2021 or 2022, '23, '24, whenever you're listening to this. It's easier than it's ever been to access free technology that can help you organize your financial picture. And so what are some of those tools that are available? And then I'll share the one that I use after.

There's Quicken and You Need a Budget, mint.com. I talk a lot in my book just because that's what I use. I have no affiliation with them whatsoever. I get nothing for mentioning their name. My family and I use that and it works really well for us. So With most of these tools, and some are more focused on investments, some are focused on budgeting and kind of watching things, but mint.com, just using that as an example because it's what I use on a day-to-day basis. I log in every single morning just to kind of check my net worth. So I'm at a point where I'm not looking at dollars and pennies in my budget categories. And a lot of people— I don't say that in an arrogant way— that's kind of how you graduate through this budgeting process. You don't need to watch every penny. once you're in a structured environment, but you gauge your net worth at a certain point. Is it up? Is it down? And that's how you measure. And if something's not looking good or something just looks off, you can dig in and see where something might be off track or if there's fraud in your account or whatever it is. But Mint has been excellent. You plug in your accounts and your checking info. It cannot take money or do transactions for you. All these programs are just read-only. incoming. So they just congregate all of your data into one visible dashboard or stream, and it lets you manage it from there. So you can set up budgets, for example, and see— you can walk into a music store and see how much you can spend on XYZ, or walk into a bookstore, whatever it is, or your partner can do the same thing. So it's just a really great way to manage things.

Yeah, I did not jump onto Mint, but I use Personal Capital, which is Almost the same tool. It gives you that high-level look at your net worth, and then you can look at different categories like cash month over month, and it does break down into all the different budgeting categories. But I've sort of graduated, I think, outside of monitoring on a daily basis into just what's the overall picture look like, and those tools, they're free and they're great for doing that.

Yeah, yeah, they are. And, you know, when I started this journey, I guess, for myself, now I'm an accountant, but, uh, when I, I wasn't a personal finance person. And when I wrote my book, I had actually never read a personal finance book in my life.

I love that.

Um, and I just created it based on what people, what problems people were coming to me with. And since then, I've, I've read a couple. Um, but, uh, back in those days, I built an Excel workbook and that's how I managed my budget. I actually shared it with a few friends and people were using it, and I thought about, this is kind of the thing I'm going to market and kind of get out there. But, um, you know, before too long, fortunately, you know, companies like Mint and, and, uh, you know, these other companies came out and they're just so much better. So Excel has long been retired. If you're budgeting in Excel, stop immediately. Get one of the free apps, hands down.

Well, Jim, great conversation today. For people who want to learn a little bit more about you your book and what you do, where should they go? What should they do?

Yeah, the best place is iamjimmiller.com. That's sort of my central hub. It links to my company and my book, and I have a blog there and some other things that are going on. So iamjimmiller.com is the best place to start.

Fantastic. Well, one more time, thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. And I think everybody's gonna get some, uh, yeah, some good info out of this.

I hope so. And if anyone has questions, feel free to reach out to me on social media. And Nick, uh, keep doing what you're doing. You're an inspiration to myself and everyone, and I appreciate your time and being here on your show today.

Thank you.