Life-Changing Books Podcast Episode 85. Jamie Andrea Garzot: Author of Unconventional

Well, Jamie, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. How are you doing today?

Doing great, thank you for having me on.

I'm super excited for today's conversation. I just finished your book, Unconventional, and I really enjoyed it, so we'll dive into some specific questions in a minute, but for those in my audience who are not familiar with you or your book, could you please introduce yourself?

Sure, so my name is Jamie Garzaud, Andrea Garzaud, and I, on a wing and a prayer in 2009, Decided to get involved in California's fledgling cannabis industry, and kind of seeing that whole process through from starting my first business, first-time entrepreneur in a completely unregulated industry, and then growing it to state regulation, state legalization, 40+ employees, $12 million annual revenue stream, all of the ups and downs that went with that learning process. So after 11 years in the industry, deciding it was time to turn my businesses over to the next generation of Operator. I exited completely and decided to write a book about my journey as a fledgling entrepreneur seeing it through and hopefully inspire other people who may be thinking about pursuing their dream.

Well, I'm very happy that you wrote the book. There are so many things that I want to unpack out of your introduction. Let's first go into the book though. So there are a lot of aspiring authors in my audience, and so I love to ask authors like yourself When did the process start? When did you say, I want to write a book about this?

So the process, I would say, started right towards the end of the acquisition with High Times, kind of in the late summer of 2020. And I didn't really— it wasn't really my idea. And so it was one of the gentlemen who was my consultant for the book, Andrew Lampert. We were closing, getting, getting down to the end, and he goes, yeah, you need to write a book about your, about your journey. And I went, yeah, yeah, whatever. And I blew him off. I totally blew him off. And then maybe a week later, he said something about it again. He's like, yeah, well, when you write your book. And I said, no, no, I'm not writing a book about it. The third time I said, Andrew, come on, like, why won't you let this book thing go?

Yeah.

And he goes, because you've done something unique, and the way you've done it has been unique, and you have an interesting story that other people could benefit from. So the third time in this case was the charm. And I said, okay, maybe he's— maybe there's something to this. And That's when I started to think about what I wanted to say in the book, how I wanted to put it together, the structure that I wanted it to kind of be like, how I wanted it to flow. And so I started taking notes in my phone, just in my little notes app, on just ideas and subjects I wanted to cover. And that's how it started. And it was really the end of 2020 when that all kind of came together.

And process is something that a lot of people find interesting as well. And before we hit Go on the podcast, you were telling us about your process. You were walking at the beach with your dog and you were recording voice notes. So could you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, and so, you know, the book is aptly titled because I can't seem to do anything in a conventional or traditional way. And so one of the things that, you know, once I committed in my mind that I was gonna write this book, one of the things I struggled with was, okay, how am I gonna do this? How, like, physically, how am I going, the mechanics of it? Because there's no way, anybody that knows me knows I'm very, very active. I can sit my ass in a chair, you know, for 8 hours a day to like clack this thing out on the keyboard. No, I'm not gonna do it that way. So then, if not that way, then how? And so I downloaded Google Docs, the app on my phone, and I would go out on my 6-mile walk with my dog and kind of think about the sections I wanted to get down on paper that day. And then I'd go back to the beach without my dog and hit the microphone icon, and I would march up and down the beach until either I drained the battery on my phone or I covered what I wanted to cover that day.

Yep.

And that was how I did it. my computer, edit from the laptop, and that was how I wrote the manuscript because that's what worked for me. And so if somebody is thinking, well, how am I going to do this? How am I going to get this down on paper? Well, maybe it's not actual paper. Maybe it's not even your laptop. Use technology to your advantage and think outside the box and do what works for you. In this case, it was walking on the beach dictating into Google Docs on my phone. And I will say that When I was editing, some of the voice dictation didn't always come through accurately, and that made for some interesting surprises in the editing process, and I didn't always figure out what I meant.

Yeah, well, no, I appreciate that, that advice, that suggestion for everybody, because I'm somebody who's more articulate as a speaker than I am as a writer. And so I've been using voice dictation to work on my book and everything too.

So yeah, yeah. Well, and plus, I think No matter how good a typist you are, we all talk faster than we type. And so getting it out, the speed at which you can do that dramatically increases your— I don't know— processing time, your production time of putting the manuscript together. I mean, you still have to edit it, but everybody does. Yeah.

Well, I was telling you before we started rolling as well that I really appreciate the genre of entrepreneurial memoirs because As a young entrepreneur, I draw inspiration from stories like yours, and there aren't that many people that, that make it, right, that sell a business that's as successful as yours, that then open up the doors and tell everybody about their journey, the obstacles that they overcame, and everything from A to Z. But I want to go back even further, right? You say that the Road Less Traveled, the Robert Frost poem, is important to you. You've always taken the road less traveled. Were you like that when you were really young?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Even from an early age. And then, you know, high school, college, you know, and my college career was— it was quite a process. It was— I had 2 college careers, and leaving one, taking a 3-year sabbatical, you know, my father never thought I was gonna go back, and all the statistics are against it. And I said, no, I will. I'll do it when I'm ready. And I did, and I finished. And so just doing things that were best for my mindset, best for my lifestyle at the time. And I've kind of lived that, I guess, philosophy my whole life. And even now today still.

Yeah. Do you think that, um, do you think that when you were younger you were present with the fact that you were unconventional? Like you were intentionally making decisions that went against the grain? Or do you think it's only with hindsight that you're like, yeah, I really You didn't fit in.

I just— I, growing up, and I think, I think there's nothing unique about, you know, the teenager that feels they don't fit in, right? Like, that's pretty— that's the whole point of being a teenager, is that like you don't fit in. Um, but, and that was definitely how I felt. I never felt like I fit in. I always felt out of place. Um, so, but that is different than actually being aware of a difference and Difference in how you approach life. So I don't know, I can't take credit early on for having that like unconventional mindset from the beginning. I just know that I felt awkward and out of place like most teenagers do. For me, that translated into an unconventional way of doing things throughout my life.

So an unconventional decision is trading a well-paying job for an entrepreneurial startup in the cannabis industry. One of the interesting things that you said when you were on the phone, I think with your dad at the time, was that you could always go back.

Yes.

Right? Worst-case scenario, it doesn't work out, you could always go back to the well-paying job, right? And so is that advice that you would give to people who are maybe on the edge? Should I jump into entrepreneurship or should I play it safe? Like, how do you think about that?

Yeah, I think that more people— I wish that more people had faith in themselves and confidence in their own ability.

Yeah.

And, you know, maybe, maybe one of the things that, that I had that maybe other women don't have is I didn't have children. And so if you have a family, if you have financial obligations that maybe limit your ability to take risks, that's a different— that's different. I didn't have some of those limiting factors, but I would say regardless, I wish more people believed in themselves, and I wish more people believed in their dream. And so something I talk about in the book is is having that faith in whatever it is you wanna do, but that's only half of it. The other half is having faith in your own ability to execute. And sometimes people have one but not the other. And I just wish that more people could have faith in both. Believe in your dream, believe in yourself, and just do it. And so, yes, that does take an incredible leap of faith, but it's worth it. And I always saw— I might fail, but I would rather fail and know that I tried than sit back later in my life going, God, I wonder what would have happened if I'd really just done it. And I never wanted to be faced with that feeling.

Yeah.

So I just did it. And, you know, I never looked back and never really embraced failure as— I don't know, as something that was going to happen. I was like, Sure, it could happen theoretically, but, you know, I don't live my life based on theoretical. It's like, let's, let's see this through.

Yeah, I remember you said something in the book like you would picture yourself at the age of 90 looking back on where you were today, and you would think, do I want to have those regrets? Have you read The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware?

No, but I probably should.

So she's an end-of-life, like, palliative care nurse, and she spends a lot of time with people who are about to pass away. And she said the number one regret that those people would share with her on average, a lot of experiences was that they lived a life that fit other people's expectations, not their own.

Yes.

They didn't take the risk and they regretted not fulfilling what it was that really inspired them.

Yes.

So similar message with you.

Absolutely. And you know, society's pressures are no joke. They're real. And just acknowledging that, realizing that, realizing that we all are subject to them and sometimes victims of those pressures is half the battle. And so it's not easy, and I don't mean to sound kind of laissez-faire about it. It's not easy, but what do you want more, right? And that's kind of another theme that is throughout my book is that choice. What do you want more? And in the midst of all kinds of obstacles, I always wanted success more.

My next question is a little bit of a funny one. I think you kick off the book with a pretty powerful opening paragraph. So I want to ask you, what's the cubic volume of $5,000?

16 cubic inches.

Not many people would know that.

It's just bizarre, and it is surreal, it's scary, but the reality of this industry is that it's cash only, by and large. You know, there's a few folks here and there that have found workarounds, and more and more financial institutions getting into to banking, the industry. But it's ridiculous. And my stores were, you know, smaller in the grand scheme of California cannabis industry operators. So when you think about that, it's like, God, yeah.

To sort of paint the picture for everybody, you, you're running 2 locations at one point in all cash. You're doing over $10 million a year in revenue, and banks won't touch you because you're in an industry that from a federal perspective Yes, and the banks are federally insured, and they don't want to be the middleman in a felony transaction, and it's understandable. Yeah.

And even though there's been guidelines from, you know, banking regulators, it's still the regulations that they put on those institutions that they get greenlight to bank the cannabis industry are so burdensome that it doesn't make sense for the banks to do it, like financial sense for them to do it. Most of them are just hands-off. They don't want to be bothered, and I get it. But still, we're talking about— this is not a Shasta County problem. This is not a California problem. This is really across the globe. And even, even I think Canada still has some issues with it. More banks are banking in Canada because it is federally legal there, but not all of them.

Yeah.

And it's, it's kind of a mess. And so You end up with operators that don't always know what to do with sometimes when the cash is literally piling up in their operations. And a lot of people would say, well, that's a great problem to have, and certainly it can be, but the logistics of managing all that cash— and something I say in the book is imagine if you were, you know, trending towards $12 million a year and every single penny that came in is hard currency. Like, how do you manage it? And so having somebody to manage the money— is another full-time job, and then systems to double-check, and then double-check the checkers, and it's, it's a lot.

Yeah, well, it is very complex, and we'll jump into some more questions about that in just a minute. But now I want to transition into your decision to get into the cannabis industry, and I already know the answer to my question, but I think everybody else will find this interesting. Were you a recreational user of cannabis before you decided to open up a pot shop?

No, no, and I'm still not. And that's something— I'm still something of an anomaly in my own industry because I've just never really enjoyed it recreationally. And so that's also my argument for when people say, well, it's a gateway drug. And I'm like, no, it's not. I'm basing this on my own perspective. It's not. And so of course I have smoked, but it's been years and years and years. And even when I did, it was maybe just to take the edge off and help me sleep. But I got into this because— kind of 2 reasons. I started to come awake in the night. And it was my mid-30s, I had terrible insomnia, I tried a bunch of stuff, and then a friend of mine said, why don't you try cannabis? And I said, well, I don't, I don't smoke, I don't like it.

Yeah.

And he said, no, no, no, try the edibles. And I did, and I was a believer literally overnight. So that got me kind of on board with the benefits of medical cannabis for the first time in my life. I didn't know a lot about it. I knew it was legal in California. And then also kind of hand in hand with that was my dream to always have my own business. And that was, that was something that had started in my early 20s and not really ever knowing how to put that together. And so it was my mid-30s when those 2 things kind of converged and everything else is history.

Yeah. So you have this desire to become an entrepreneur. You have this desire to get into the cannabis industry. What were the first thoughts around how to differentiate yourself in this industry?

So one of the things that I found out early on is when I went to some of the stores that were operating, and I'm talking, you know, 2008, 2009, they were all really focused around kind of the stoner culture, the 420 lifestyle. And that's amazing, that's like an awesome demographic, but it wasn't something that I ever really associated with myself because I wasn't part of that lifestyle.

Yeah.

So when I would go into the stores as a mid-30s business professional, I felt awkward and out of place again, right? So I saw an opportunity in the ways that the stores at the time were kind of crafted. I saw the opportunity to do something different. That was a little bit broader in their clientele base, a little bit more open and inclusive of every demographic and every lifestyle. And that's what I set out to do, is build a store that somebody who's a, you know, mid-30s-something professional could walk in and feel comfortable, not necessarily feel like they have to be part of the stoner culture or, you know, a daily pot smoker to feel like they can walk in there and get their cannabis that they need. That was my vision at the time.

Yeah, and you recall in the book walking into a cannabis store at the time, and this guy's got like a hat over his eyes and hair hanging out and these baggy jeans, and it just made you feel uncomfortable, right? I mean—

Yeah, it was just the whole thing. I mean, it was dimly lit and it was not the cleanest atmosphere, you know, environment. And, and, you know, again, I'm dressed in my business and I just, you know, want something to help me sleep. And coming from a customer service background my whole life, and sales, you know, you walk in a place and somebody's like, what's up?

Yeah.

Like, that's all you got? Like, and that was the extent of the customer service. And I thought, okay, I don't really know what I'm doing here. I need help, I need guidance, I need consultation. And it wasn't available. So that was another thing. It's like, okay, I want it to look different, I want it to feel different, I want my clientele to, like, feel comfortable, and my staff to be trained well enough to have those conversations with somebody who doesn't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to cannabis, because I was kind of a rookie at the time.

Yeah, you mentioned in the book that you were an avid reader growing up, right? So what types of books did you like to read when you were growing up?

Oh my God, everything. Um, and by everything I mean like Anne of Green Gables, which is still one of my favorite, you know, little series of all time. I started reading Stephen King when I was in my, I think, preteen into teen. Um, Pat Conroy, all of the Black Stallion books because I've been like a total animal lover my whole life and now starting a mini farm. So, and still to this day, I read every genre. There's nothing— and my music kind of, you know, tastes very eclectic in the same way. I like everything.

Yeah, yeah. Well, one of my favorite things about fiction as it relates to entrepreneurship is that fiction is really the only place that the impossible becomes possible instantly, or unconventional things are talked about in a conventional way. And so do you think that your avid reading growing up influenced your decision to be an entrepreneur, or was it kind of unrelated?

I don't— that's a really tough question. I've never, I've never tried to connect those 2 dots before. What I do know is that, you know, my love of books, which started probably from birth because my mom would read to me when I was small. I was 2 months premature and they thought that I may not— I may have developmental issues, which is probably debatable. But so she would read to me. The doctor said read to her, and I think that's where it started, just like from literally from birth. And then just all through my childhood into my adulthood. And so when I was starting my second college career, not still at that point not sure what I wanted to be when I grew up.

Yeah.

I just chose a major that I knew I could get into, and I knew that I could get into English and literature because of my love of books. And so I figured, okay, well, let's not get too far out in front. Let's just focus on my college career, and if I'm going to finish, I better pick something that I'm interested in. So I chose books. And, you know, I never wanted to teach. At the time, I didn't want to write because the only— like, my concept of writing was fiction, and ew, appalling. I could never do that.

Right.

So, but I've had that love of words and the written word my whole life, and it served me in the business world because if I'm drafting policy or if I'm drafting an email to, you know, city regulators, I can make a coherent sentence, you know, make a coherent sentence, I can write a coherent sentence. So I think it helped me, but I don't know that One led to the other.

No, I mean, I just, I was curious, you know, I wanted to explore that a little bit. There are themes in your book that, that it seems like you came up with in life that are similar. Like we were talking about The Alchemist is over here, right? That stating your intentions to the world, the universe will conspire to assist you type of things. And one of the subjects that you talk about early in the book is a strong vision.

Yes.

That ironically or paradoxically, it's both the beginning and the end of somebody's journey.

Yes.

Could you talk a little bit about what vision means to you? It seems like it's really important.

It is really important and it was something that I, at the time when I was putting the ideas for the first store together and so again, this is 2009 when I knew how I wanted it to look, I knew what I wanted it to be like, I knew where I wanted the building to be like, all of that, I could see it clear as day here. At that time, I wasn't as skilled or educated in manifesting, but I just knew what I wanted and I knew how it was going to be when I could achieve it. And so I just kept going, like just pushed my way through. And that's, that's something that I've always done is just pursue it. Like if I put my mind to it, I'm gonna do it. Again, not realizing that this is the power of thought and this is exactly how we manifest. Those were lessons that I kind of began to learn through my entrepreneurial journey, which I talk about in the book, is holding to that vision. And so it was something that I didn't realize that I was really doing at the beginning, but I became aware of, I would say, midstream, and then I continued to utilize through into the second store, even into my life today.

Sure.

So it's— and I make the comment in my book that, you know, I'm not a teacher in the law of attraction, in manifesting. I am a student. My classroom has been my life experience and I think it's amazing and I continue to use it every day and I continue to learn more about it every day.

Yeah, I do too. I'm a student of it as well and I practice it in a few different ways. Do you have any routines or intentional practices where you focus on manifestation?

Absolutely. Yeah, and I use a couple different I guess, techniques because variety is kind of what keeps life interesting, right?

Mm-hmm.

Variety in our exercise routine, variety in the books we read, and so I do kind of vary my manifestation exercises.

Sure.

But, you know, I have a vision board and I add to that. I look at it probably not daily but weekly and I add to it all the time. I have a little notes section in my phone that I can pull up and I can look at and I have all of my intentions and And I keep track of the things that I have manifested. And so something that I started to do is when I put something out there, either in my notes or on my vision board, I put the day that I add it to my manifestation list, and then I put when it manifests. So for me, being able to see like how quickly it happens—

Sure.

And then look back at things that haven't happened yet and maybe go back and focus in a different way or kind of retool those. So I think, and then also just my daily gratitude whenever, wherever I am. In my car, that seems to be a big one. So yeah, I have different practices and different techniques that I use, and I think that has been one of the keys to my successful manifestations.

We are eerily similar in that respect, and it probably comes from all of the reading and the entrepreneurship and learning through failure and focusing on what you want.

Well, and I think the vision board It is so helpful for me. I love the visual, the colors, and, and so I use Google Slides, and that way I can have it on my laptop, on my phone in real time. If I see an image, if I have a thought, I can pull up my phone and I can add it right then and there.

Sure.

And so that— having that accessibility as opposed to, um, like an actual hard copy of something somewhere that you're not going to see every day, that is not accessible every day, For me, using again technology to, I don't know, help my lifestyle, fit into my lifestyle, augment my lifestyle, whatever. But yeah.

Yeah, no, it's a great action for everybody watching or listening today. So starting a vision board can seem a little bit intimidating, like where do you start, what do you do? You just open up Google Slides and you can change it whenever you'd like. Because my vision board today is on a— it's like a traditional cardboard cutout and I haven't added to it in a while. And that's why, it's because there's a barrier there, right? There's too many steps to go edit it.

Yeah, but Google Slides, you can add another slide. And so some slides are about, you know, one subject and other slides are about another one, and you can move the slides around. And so if I want to focus more, it's like, I don't know, I have 37 slides on it right now. Yeah, and growing. But, you know, I can move stuff to the front, I can delete it. I mean, there's things that I do that, you know, our visions change and ideas that we think we— or things we think we want, maybe we don't want it in exactly the way that we put it down on paper again. So, I just love the flexibility of that. And so, I would encourage people that are thinking about doing a, you know, a vision board to try Google Slides because it's always there. And when you look at your phone, it's like, oh yeah, I got to look at it today. And it keeps it more forward in our mind and makes it more accessible.

It does. It does. It helps our brains filter for those types of information. We could geek out on those subjects all day long. Okay. What else you got? One of the next subjects that I wanted to talk about that I thought was really interesting, and you're one of the only authors that I've seen admit And you admit this in the memoir is that if you had known how difficult it was going to be to get into business and to grow a business successfully, maybe you wouldn't have done it. And so there was a certain level of naivete that you had going in that was actually to your benefit. So could you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah. So in certain circumstances, ignorance absolutely is bliss.

Yes.

Because coming from a chronic overthinker, I mean, that's one of— I get in my own way all the time. And this is one area, thankfully, I didn't get in my own way because I didn't overthink it. And I kept my focus very narrow at the beginning, and narrow in something like what I wanted the store to look like on the inside, what I wanted, like who my clientele was, um, and what I wanted the building to be like. Like, those are— that was kind of it at the very beginning.

Yeah.

And so keeping it narrow and not going out, you know, 3 years. I mean, you kind of want to do that for, you know, financial projections, which You know, I didn't really do either. But, you know, it's easy to get in our own way. It's easy to overthink something. And the more you overthink it, you start— the roadblocks start popping up. And then it's like, oh wait, I can't do this. And so then, you know, we hit the brakes.

Yeah.

And so for somebody that is starting out or thinking about pursuing their dream, like, kind of keep it simple. Don't overthink it. Ignorance can be bliss if you let it be.

Yeah, when I started Book Thinkers, I started the business as a total rookie. I didn't understand any parts of the process. I definitely didn't know what I was getting myself into. And looking back, I have some of those same doubts. Like, if you focus on the doubts and you allow yourself to procrastinate and start to research things, then doubt can creep in.

Yep.

You know, and it can overwhelm that process.

Well, one of the things, and I talk about this in the book, is Christine Brooks, who was my landlord for the the first building, and when I met with her, one of the things she said to me towards the end of my meeting was, she goes, and she was an entrepreneur and has been her whole life, and she said, owning your own business is always 10 times harder than you think it's going to be.

Yeah.

But it's always better than working for somebody else. And so at the time, I had no context in which to put that, right? It was just words, and I went, okay, well that sounds interesting, and it stuck with me because it's absolutely accurate. And she knew what she was talking about. And so I think if you realize that, if you prepare yourself for that, great. But again, don't let that be the barrier.

Yeah, no, sure. And she was also your first green light, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So you talk about green lights and you talk about red lights in the book. Could you define those for everybody?

Yeah, and so something that, you know, I don't know that I realized at the time But I was able to go back and I was able to like kind of mark out these green lights in the process. My job in life, and I think everybody's job, is if you're looking for like what path to take and should we do this or should we not do this, my job is to watch for the green lights. And those are indicators that I'm moving in the right direction, whatever that is.

Sure.

And then my second part of that job is to follow those green lights because the universe will present them. They are always there. They are always there. So my job is to look for them, know they are coming, watch for them, follow them. And, you know, I talk about the red lights as times for reflection.

Yes.

Right? Because those will happen too. And so, but not to let those red lights turn into paralysis. Know that you got to hit that accelerator. You got to keep that foot on the gas the whole time. You might have to take it off and pause through the red light, but let that be a time of reflection, either self-reflection, reflection on your operations, your dream, refocus, whatever it is. But those pauses, those red lights are temporary.

Yeah.

And then watch for the green, and then hit the accelerator again.

I want to jump into both green lights and red lights a little bit more because I think this is a fascinating way to look at life and entrepreneurship. For green lights, you said your driver's ed teacher had a funny line. Do you remember what that was?

It was one of the— so the things that you— that are in your memory that you don't even remember are there suddenly pop up when you're writing a book, right? And so, um, but when I was 16, 15, in my driver's ed class, I had— and everybody talked about like the cool driver's ed teacher to get, and I can't remember his name. I wish I could, but, you know, he had like the ponytail, like kind of the hippie guy.

Yeah.

And he would, he would say it from the passenger seat when we're sitting there in the car, If that light gets any greener, we can smoke it, right? And, and so we all giggled because we're 15 and he's talking about pot. And, and I still remember that. And, and, but that's, but that's accurate, right? And so kind of strangely appropriate now considering the industry that I landed in. And, and one of the kind of focal points of the book is, is following those green lights. Yeah, having this driver's ed teacher talk about pot when I was 15.

One of my, one of my first jobs, I ran a house painting business when I was in college, and I had to do everything from door-to-door sales to hiring my friends to go execute the jobs that I was selling. And my mentor at the time I was meeting with, I was part of a larger company, and he used to tell me, listen, Nick, the door is open, you just have to walk through it. And that was my version of the green light. Like, the opportunity is there, and now you have to have the courage to walk through it.

So do you have any advice for young entrepreneurs who know that the door is open or know that the light is green, but they just can't get themselves to take the Yeah, so, you know, I'm going to come back to something, another theme in the book that I think I've mentioned in another one of our conversations, and that's the concept of choice, right? And so it's not always as black and white as it may seem, or, you know, maybe sometimes we can— it can be as black and white, you know, what do you want more?

Yeah.

And so if you're an early entrepreneur or beginning, a new entrepreneur, first-time entrepreneur sitting there going, God, like, right, and you're— maybe your foot's on the gas, you're ready to take a step through that door, but you're hesitant. Ask yourself, what do you want more?

Mm-hmm.

Do you want that choice? Do you want that success? Do you want that risk? Like, what do you— or do you want to live in fear? And that's kind of maybe a strong statement to tell somebody, well, you're choosing to live in fear if you don't do this. Well, maybe that's what they need to get their butt out the door, right? But I, I don't want to live in fear. I'm not gonna live my life in fear. And so for me, I wanted success. I didn't want that other choice. Yeah. And so just ask yourself, you know, if you're, if you're struggling, what do you want more?

No, I, I can totally relate with that. And it goes back to that Bronnie Ware Top 5 Regrets of the Dying. Like, you don't want to regret not going for it, not accepting the green light and moving forward. And then on the red light side of things, um, your, your thoughts about reflecting during the periods of time that are the most difficult reminds me of a quote that Elizabeth Gilbert wrote about. She said, don't fast forward through the times in life that have the opportunity to teach you the most. Right? When you have a red light, don't skip over it. Spend some time in it. Reflect in it. So that was a really important lesson too.

Exactly. Exactly. And you know, sometimes those are the points at which you have the most opportunity to get creative and to come up with creative solutions. And I talk about some of these in the book as well where You know, I had this, like, when I was looking for edibles to stock the shelves and my vendors were disappearing, and it's like, God, how am I gonna keep my shelves stocked? And I see the small kitchenette that's in the back of the building. It's like, okay, I guess I gotta start my own kitchen now, right? And so when you're faced with some of these red lights, like, I can't get the products to stock my shelf, what am I going to do? You create your own solution for a problem that for some could be insurmountable. And so it's, I see some, some similarities there.

Yeah, I do too. Okay. So something that I didn't have much education in or awareness of was the politics side of cannabis, the legalization of cannabis. And so in the book, you not, not in like a, not in an annoying way, but in a fun way, you sort of educate the reader. In 1996, Proposition 215 passes, and then you sort of go through the different steps that individual states like California are going through, and some other states like Colorado, etc. So, what are some of those highlights? What are some of the reasons that you included those in the book?

So, I think for the reader, understanding some of the political landscape and some of the challenges that go with legalizing the cannabis industry are helpful, because one of the things that, that still comes up is this question of, well, how can it be legal when it's against federal law? And even for me, when I first started, like, that's kind of like, how can that be? How can states legalize this thing, and yet the federal law says something different? So for me, it was important to get my head around that, because at the time, in 2009, at the local level, that was something the city attorney wanted to talk a lot about, is like, well, it's not even legal at the federal level, so how can we be sitting here in this, you know, city council chamber having this conversation? Yeah. But every year that goes by, you have more and more states come online. And so really, for at least some of the book, taking a dive, not necessarily a deep dive, but kind of a dive into the logistics of that, the legal aspects of it, how is it possible, and helping the reader understand. Because, you know, as we sit here today, there are still states that have not even reduced criminal sanctions for cannabis. They— it's still not medically permissible. There's, you know, no recreational use. So, in those states where it's not as common and it's not accepted yet, it's still a question that comes up. And so, thinking that maybe this book will be helpful for local regulators in some of those states, maybe state regulators, you know, because the, you know, Lori Ajax, who wrote the foreword, she's, you know, California's first cannabis czar. And that's something that every state is going to have to deal with as we kind of march down the road towards federal legalization in this country. So having that just kind of cursory overview of how California did it, and like I say in the book, in a lot of ways California is the poster child for how not to do things, because of the time span that they let lapse between when they first legalized it for medical and when they actually got around to regulating. It's like, you know, 19 years. So other states, let's not do that.

Yeah.

But it was— so I think having that kind of rudimentary understanding of some of the legalities, some of the political processes, is helpful for the reader. And maybe, I don't know, somebody who just wants to understand the industry and the process. But, you know, and if you're not interested in that, you can always skip that chapter. But—

No, well, there were some good lessons in those sections of the book too. Like you say very early on when you were starting the business, It was important for you to understand that side of things for your customer so that you could answer questions effectively and you could make sure that you're going to stay in business.

And so, yeah, yeah. And so part of, part of that mindset, I guess that's always been part of how I think, is if I'm going to be involved in something, I need to understand it, and I want to understand every single thing about it. And when I'm sitting there in the city council meeting and I'm hearing the city attorney say these things, like, what, that's something I gotta— I need to, I need to understand that. So I'd go and research, and I found all these other examples of where there is a disconnect between what a state's law may say and what the federal law says. Cannabis is not unique in that way.

Yeah.

And we sometimes forget about that, or regulators forget about that, because there's a whole laundry list of things. But it was interesting for me also, and it kind of opened up the whole, I would say, political world and the involvement in that, which I'd never been involved in. political process. I mean, you know, we all take civics in high school, I think, but, you know, we don't always live it. And, and so I found myself living a civics lesson and learning about local process and state process that I never thought I would, you know, be doing, but it's part of my journey.

So Christine gives you the green light, you get this lease. How much capital do you have to invest in the business at this time?

Oh my gosh, it was like $7,000.

And she didn't require rent up front for the first month, right?

She didn't have a deposit. It was a triple net lease, but it was, you know, less than I thought that I was going to be paying, and no deposit. And just like, I was incredibly grateful to her at the time, and because I had such a small amount of money to make this happen, and There's no way I could probably ever do that again, certainly not in the cannabis industry, because it's just gotten so regulated, and with regulation, you know, the cost of operating go up. But almost any business, I don't know that you could start with $7,000. It just seems like ridiculous, but that's—

yeah, that's where it started. Your first 16 months, if I'm getting the numbers correct, you only did about $100,000 in total revenue.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I guess, you know, for, for a brand new business and rookie operator, I guess that's, that's not a bad, you know, first year. But the company was still like on a shoestring, and I didn't take a salary for a long time, and that allowed reinvestment back into the business. So, you know, and that was also, I think, critical to the growth, is always reinvesting money back in and not just taking But yeah, it was scary and I used the term white-knuckle in that white-knuckle first year not knowing if I was going to be able to pay rent and some months I didn't pay it until the 10th or the 14th and Christine never once asked me for it, not once. I always paid it but sometimes it was not always on the 1st.

The universe was conspiring to assist you.

It was.

It was.

It was.

Yeah. Well, I can relate. I mean, with Book Thinkers, I didn't take any money out of the business for a long time. As I was starting it. And similar story, I mean, you're reinvesting money back into the business, you're operating in the black, right? You're not losing money. But sometimes that's the sacrifice that it takes to grow a small business into a bigger business, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't— I mean, there's no way that I ever saw the company ending up, you know, in 2020 trending at $12 million a year annual revenue stream. Like, I That was not something that I ever had in my mind. Like, I was thinking, okay, well, you know, I'd like to do— I'd like to do as well as I was in my current salary, or my previous salary with PG&E, but that was kind of the extent of it. Like, I just wanted to be breaking even, and I always wanted to be successful, but it wasn't that I wanted to be ridiculously successful or be part of this political process in California. That's how it ended up, but that wasn't something that I thought about in the beginning.

Yeah.

Again, that's where my vision evolved and as everybody's vision should be evolving always but that wasn't something I saw at the beginning.

Well, I love the early stages of entrepreneurship. I love reading about the struggles because it makes entrepreneurship seem more realistic for the average person and I also love the way that you wrote this book because you have chapters titled The Cops, right? And you talk about proactively reaching out to the local police department and sheriff's office and inviting police officers to come to your federally illegal pot shop.

Yeah.

And so could you tell everybody a little bit about that? I mean, it's, it's fun as a reader to go through those experiences with you.

Yeah, and I guess maybe because I, I was not— like, I didn't grow up around pot. I didn't smoke it in high school. I smoked it like one time in college, and so I never had that connection with like I'm doing something that I should stay away from the cops, like I've got a baggie in my console. Or no, I just wasn't— that wasn't part of my landscape. And so I never had that fear, maybe, that people that are more involved with pot or cannabis early on, they kind of, you know, you gotta run from the cops. I never had that. So when I first opened up, I realized that what I was doing was controversial and that likely nobody was going to come knocking on my door to see how I was doing it. And I thought, all right, well, I— it's important to normalize this as much as I can, destigmatize this in my community. So the only way to do that is for me to go out into the world and to talk about what I do and how I do it and invite people in. And so that's what I did. And I did it with, you know, my local regulators. I did it with my local law enforcement. And, you know, people are curious. People are always, I think, curious about something that's controversial. Even if they don't agree with cannabis, they wanted to see it. And so, yeah, I invited them in, and they would pull in in their cop cars, and my parking lot would empty, and then it would stay empty for several hours after because my customers didn't know what was going on.

Yeah, yeah.

They'd just see the squad cars in the parking lot, and, you know, they're looking, is Jamie coming out in handcuffs? No, no, I never did. But, and then curiosity would get the better of them, and they'd come back. And so, but doing that early outreach was super important. And again, not just because I thought I was going to change people's minds, but I really thought that by showing them that, hey, this is just a regular business, I'm a regular person, that you reduce some of, I think, the fear. You reduce some of the stereotypes and you start to break down barriers. And that's what I did from, like, from the very beginning.

Yeah, and as a new business owner, you developed more conviction for the products that you were selling. Through the stories that your customers were relaying back to you, right?

Absolutely. And those were things that I shared. I mean, not personal information, but, you know, knowing that what I was doing was already controversial and that not everybody agreed with it or wanted it there.

Sure.

Something that I never did was really go on and on about my opinion. I think my opinion is self-evident. I have a cannabis store in a conservative part of California. Obviously, I believe in it. So, I didn't really try to hammer that home. That seemed obvious and not productive. So, having the conversations, the outreach conversations around operations and law and those, and how it was helping customers A, B, and C, those were the conversations that I had. It wasn't about, well, cannabis is great and here's why you should— no.

Yeah.

Let's just kind of keep it focused more on less controversial subject matters within this controversial topic, if that makes sense.

No, it does. There was a big theme in the book which was to apply logic instead of an opinion, right? And so even in sort of the civil service side of things, you were always applying logic, which was a little bit disruptive, instead of emotion. Because like you said, your opinion was self-evident. You owned a pot shop.

Sure, and if I'm, if I'm, you know, beating the drum with my opinion and trying to hammer that down somebody else's throat, well, they have theirs, and they're, they're gonna, you know, want to beat their own drum. And so all you end up doing at that point is, is, you know, locking horns. And again, that's not where productive conversation happens.

Yeah.

And so if you can open the door to productive conversation, if you can create a safe space for a real dialogue, that's interesting to me, that's helpful, that moves the needle as far as social acceptability and about Breaking down barriers and shattering stereotypes. That's when that happens, not when you're locking horns over somebody with, like, my opinion versus yours. Like, no, let's just talk about logic. Let's talk about, you know, facts. Like, how can this be legal? Well, here's how. And it's like, oh, well, okay, now I see. Or maybe they walk away looking at it from a different perspective than they did before.

Yeah, no, I think that's great. Now, the name of your business, FiveThirty Collective, Yes. Was from the area code.

Yes.

Now I'll tell you something, when I first read the name and you were talking about the 420 lifestyle and how it wasn't super inclusive, I was like, all she did was take 420 and add a 1 up on the 2 numbers so that it became 530. So it was like a classier version of 420, which was funny.

So I, I even, even my own customers for years would come in and say, so So why 530? Is it that? And they would say this, what you just said.

Yeah.

So it was kind of like this puzzle and this little conversation starter that I never expected. But I would say, no, it's just the area code, because I didn't want to have— like, it was in the city of Shasta Lake, but I didn't want it to be Shasta Lake Collective because then it's too narrow, right? So 530 is the whole Northern California area code, so that seemed a little bit more inclusive. And also made people think a little bit and question, well, what does that mean? And I always like it when you can get people to, you know, talk about you or, you know.

Yeah, of course. It's Branding 101, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, no, that's great. And another aspect of this book that I really enjoyed was you talked very openly about relationships in your life and some of the struggles that you had in those relationships. But it's funny because in the book you said that you always struggled with vulnerability, right? Right, like being emotionally there for other people.

Yeah.

So how was the process of writing this book and being so vulnerable? I mean, was it scary for you, or?

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, terrifying putting it together. But again, coming in, not to, you know, sound like a broken record, but it was like, well, what do I want more?

Sure.

Do I want to be able to share my story and possibly inspire somebody and maybe educate somebody about cannabis, or maybe entertain somebody at some point. Maybe I get a laugh, you know, here and there. But do I want those things more, or do I want to be afraid of putting myself out there?

Yeah.

So that was for me what kind of pushed me to, you know, when I got my head around doing the book, writing the book, like, okay, yes, it's going to be scary to put a lot of personal stuff out there, a lot of personal things in the book, because it's not really about cannabis. I mean, it's a little bit misleading in some ways because that's really not what it's about. It's— the cannabis is the backdrop of the story.

Sure.

So you're going to learn about a lot about it just by, you know, it's there, but that's really not the focal point of the book. So yeah, tons of personal stuff. Yes, it's terrifying, um, but I had to get over that because I want to tell my story more than I want to be afraid of it.

Yeah.

If, if that makes sense.

No, it totally does. And, and as a reader, I learned a lot from those experiences, and, and we'll talk about a couple of them. So with your ex-husband things are very chaotic at home, but you're still able to go to work and show up every single day. It was like an outlet for you to exercise your sanity in some points. And so how are you able to sort of pull things together and show up every day despite what was happening back at home?

Because you don't have a choice, and the store is not going to open itself, it's not going to run itself. And so having— in the midst of chaos, you try to anchor yourself to some sort of Stability. And so the store was that for me.

Yeah.

The operating hours were stable, the customer flow was, was stable at that point, and just having that to kind of latch on to, to get myself through. And then, you know, the dogs. The dogs were a huge part of my, my staying sane in the midst of chaos. But, you know, just having them be that, that light for me and their, their little, you know, whimsical personalities was, was what I needed. And that they kind of saved me in some of the darkest hours. But again, in the midst of chaos, I think when we can find some sort of stability, and the storm was that.

Well, listeners or viewers might be able to hear the dogs in the background. Dogs are a good theme in the book.

Yes.

One of the things that you said during this point in your life was that dogs were a source of, or they taught you about unconditional love, right? So I'd love to have you explain Can you tell us a little bit more about your dogs and what they mean to you?

Oh gosh, well, they've always been a part of my life, and there's a couple that, you know, they make an appearance in the book. And Boogie, who's the one that's in the background right now, he's not happy that he's outside. But, you know, they're just— they are truly a joy for me. And so something I talk about more towards the end of the book is finding your joy, and finding your joy is one of the things that can help you keep your dream alive and keep it, you know, keep yourself focused on positivity. He's so loud back there. But they just, they were something that kept me grounded, you know, just like the simple habits of caring for them, feeding them, watering them, petting them, and seeing their joy in life and kind of taking that as my own, you know, feeding off of theirs is, was something again that that played into that. And again, no matter what you do, you can't do it 100% of the time. You have to have an outlet. You have to have something that helps you unplug and gets you back to center. And for me, it's always been the dogs, and that's why in my life now there's 6. Adding more.

You're building a farm.

No, I can't do it. I can't do any more than 6. I thought I couldn't do more than 5, but Now there's 6, but truly they— and I'm glad to have all of them. And yes, we're building a mini farm apparently, but again, the animals and especially the dogs have always been a joy, and their unconditional love is part of what kept me grounded and kept me going.

Well, the purpose of this podcast is really to introduce a book and introduce a new potential mentor to my audience. And so I think we did that in a very successful way. We introduced everybody to the book. I have a ton more questions that we're not going to get to just because of time, but I guess my final question before we wrap up is what's next for you? So you built this business to $12 million in gross revenue, you sold the business, now we're sitting in your house in Indiana, we've got the dogs barking. What's next for you?

I don't know. I think, you know, one of the, you know, And just to kind of digress a little bit of the personal story that's happening in real time was, you know, the book was finished kind of towards the fall of— late summer, fall of last year. And then towards the end of last year, I started to have this midlife awakening where I realized at 49 years old that I'm gay and ended my relationship with Jim, who's an amazing human. He's been incredibly supportive. And then had to reinvent myself at 49 years old in a different state. And at the time, I was in North Carolina. So I don't know. Again, the book is appropriately named, apparently. And so then kind of having to come out to the world and to my family, come out to myself, and reinvent the person that I am to a certain extent, and how I'm going to— what life I'm going to live. live and create for myself now, um, led me to Michelle and now building a life with her and a mini farm with her in Indiana. Again, something that I never could have seen coming even, you know, 6 or 8 months ago. But again, you know, when the green lights show up, because they're there, you have to follow them. Yeah, so that's exactly what I'm doing now.

That's a great theme. Well, for those in the audience that want to learn more about you, And learn more about your book, where should they go? What should they do?

Well, so I'm on most social media platforms. TikTok, Jamie the Author, you can find me there. Instagram, Facebook, my website, jamieandreadarzo.com. And I'm pretty easy to find. I have a unique last name, so it makes me pretty easy to find on any search engine.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, and I'm really happy that we could do this.

Thank you for having me on. It's been great.