Million Dollar Weekend with Noah Kagan

But if you only just think of yourself as an experimenter, it's something I talk about more extensively and give examples and challenges. A lot of the book is challenge-based and activities. That's the way I learn, is that when you experiment, what happens? You fail. And if you can just learn the behaviors, if you can learn the templates, then as long as you're experimenting, you're like, yeah, of course it's going to fail. And eventually, just like you did, it led you to eventually get to the outcome. You're like, all right, well, this isn't working. But this thing is. And I've done that so many times with AppSumo. I've done it with my other companies that I've started that eventually have led to 7 and 8-figure businesses. As I was writing the book, we basically beta tested chapters. So I want to basically make sure that yes, it works for me, but is it going to work for the reader? Because I've read a lot of these books and I'm like, okay, okay, more fiction, more fiction. I want nonfiction. I want something that's going to be true. And so each chapter had 10 beta readers that went through all the challenges. Then now every single weekend for For the past 3 months and for the next 6 months, I have 5 people every single weekend going through the book. And so the transformations of people actually reading the material, it's been phenomenal to see.

How is Noah Kagan?

Noah Kagan's great. Life is wild. Like, we woke up at 5 AM to fly out to Rhode Island to interview someone we met on the And now we're at your house in Taunton in Massachusetts.

How often are you in Massachusetts?

I don't know. Oh, actually, last time we were here was when we got on a private jet.

I've never been on a private jet. What's it like?

It's, um, it's hard to fly coach. It's really hard to go back. If you have the ability to do it and carbon offset or whatever, I don't— that doesn't matter as much to me. But if you have the ability to do it, you never wanna go back. Just like the speed of it and the convenience. And like, I was talking with Dan Martell, Buy Back Your Time. He's like, it's $2,000 an hour. I don't have to wait at the airport. I can leave when I want. I can sleep in. And as I've become wealthier and as I'm closer to death, frankly, and I have more money, it's really become more important, my time. And so it's starting to be like, all right, for $2,000 an hour, yeah, I'll probably start doing more private flights. The thing I was referring to specifically is me and Isaac, the videographer, stood outside a private airport in Austin, Texas to try to find out what these people do for a living and then get a flight with them. And we did, and he flew to Boston. And then we had to catch a flight at 9 PM back from getting here.

It's amazing. Dan's book is above your head back there, by the way. So that's funny.

But yeah, life is wild, man. Flying out here for some interviews. AppSumo stuff is going really well. I have a book coming out pretty soon. Um, girlfriend in Spain I'm trying to make happy and do my best. So life is good. Life is very good.

Can I tell you the worst plane story about coach versus first class that happened to me recently? So check this out. I was in the second exit row back in a bigger plane, so I was kind of far from the front. And I get a notification on my device, you've been upgraded to first class. Somebody comes over and they get me. Mr. Hutchison, you've been upgraded. So I grab my bag out of the overhead, I walk all the way up, I sit down, I'm comfortable. You know, I take a book out, I start to relax. They come back over to me and they say, hey, I'm sorry, this never happens, but the person ran up to the gate. We had the door closed, but we're gonna let them back in, and they're in your seat. So I had the walk of shame on a plane, and I was previously excited about my extra legroom, like, seat in the back. Now all of a sudden it's the worst thing ever. So that's how fast—

like, yeah.

That's how fast your expectations can change.

I think what's interesting though is you can actually live a rich life really cheap. And I've lived cheap for so long. So we're talking about like money can't buy happiness and I was not happy even though I was making really, really good money. But even if you don't have a lot of money, 2 things, like for private jet in Austin, there's dsx.com. You know about this?

I've heard, I think so.

$200, you can fly private. So you can fly from Austin to Dallas, Dallas to LA, Dallas to Miami. And it's a few hundred dollars so you can experience it. And I think what you should figure out in life, no matter your age, is do these fancy-ass things and see if it matters to you. Or you can use turo.com. I was in LA and for $225 I rented a Lambo. And I was like, okay, first off, I don't like driving Lambos.

Like, that's—

I have a 2004 Miata.

Yeah.

Okay. And then I did— I'm flexing, I got a new Vespa. It's like, uh, but I pulled it up to the valet, uh, in LA. It was at, uh, It's like not Mozart's, but something like that. He's like, damn dude, what do you do for a living? I'm like, bro, it's a rental, right? It's $200. But the point being is that you can try these different rich life things out now and see which ones actually make a difference in your life, and then decide, hey, I want to have a dream of flying private. And so my dream is by 50 to almost always fly private if I can.

Well, so off camera a few minutes ago, we were talking about that sign, money doesn't buy happiness. You said it can, and there are a few things that you've spent money on that have created a little bit of happiness. So what are some examples?

Money buys happiness.

Just money?

Money buys happiness. And so for me, I lived so cheap and I never spent any of the money. I was making millions of dollars a year living in an 800-square-foot house with cracks in the walls, cracks in the floor, cockroaches. I at times would have a gun on my couch because I thought people were going to break in.

Oh wow.

I was just kind of like— and I was like, and when COVID happened, I said, let's just try something different. And so I think a lot of times, what's the catalyst? And, you know, the book Million Dollar Weekend, catalyst is you don't have a lot of time, but you can change your life in 48 hours. And that's a catalyst. And so COVID, I tried living in fancy houses. So I rented a Malibu beach house, $20,000. I've never spent $20,000. I was like, I'm never going back. I'm never going back. You know, I've opened The blinds and I'm looking out on the Malibu beach. And I was like, okay, there is a level where if I can afford this, which I could, and I could finally treat myself to spending some of this money. Every day I wake up in my house, it inspires me. So I have a $2.5 million house. And frankly, it's $10,000. It's about $10,000 to $12,000 a month. It's not that much. But I will tell you, it elevates my game. It elevates my work. And honestly, at the end of the day, it elevates my life. And I am extremely happy, but there's other pieces. And I think that's where when people say money can't buy happiness, it's 'cause you're buying things that don't make you happy. Don't have a Ferrari. I don't have a Lambo. I have a Rolex collection. It literally makes me kind of annoyed.

I'm just like, what did you?

And I buy them to commemorate moments. It's just like, they're just sitting. They're just sitting, not doing anything. Where it's like, this is a $200 watch. Or I have a $15,000 bike. I kid you not, I just go in the garage and look at it. And I'm just like, its name is Chili. And I'm just like, oh, look at you. But that gives me the happiest stuff. They're like, look at you.

I know.

You have to clean the chain.

Yes.

But I think the thing for people to understand, it's not, um, it's not how much you have, it's what's the things that you actually want and how much is that. And it's not a bad thing. I think growing up Jewish, it's like, oh, spending money is bad, making money is good. And so it's like figuring out your money relationship.

Yeah, it's a conversation I've had with my wife quite a bit recently. She grew up Jewish, still is Jewish. And so yeah, there is a little bit of that mindset. But I think the subject of money is an interesting thing to kick off this podcast with because a lot of people have a scarcity mindset around starting a business. And something you say early in this book, Million Dollar Weekend, is that really the first goal is to go from $0 to $1. And you have this $1 challenge. Could you tell everybody a little bit about that?

Yeah. What happens with most people as they're having a dream, and I think people think, I need to get a million, right? That's the number. Where did that million come from even? And that million thought stops you from the one.

Hmm.

And there's been people, there's a guy named Dieter, where you go and ask someone for a dollar. There's a guy named Felipe Rubio, and he asked a friend, said, hey, can you just give me a dollar and believe in me? And that's what the dollar challenge is. And there's other examples in the book, but that is one of them where he's like, oh, this is it. This is the feeling of someone actually gave me something that gives me validation of what I can do. And so when you're getting businesses going, the idea in general is how do you build up your ask muscle? Because really it is like with Book Thinkers, you're asking an author, I would like you to give me some money for a delivery of value. The more that you can build up that practice, the more you can get comfortable with it, the more you're like, wow, what else can I do in creating businesses and getting eventually to a million? But really it just starts with one. And so I would encourage anyone out there, just get on your phone, Instagram, Venmo, PayPal, text message, whatever it is. And I think you'll be surprised how it makes you feel when you actually finally get that first dollar.

And I think you have a template in the book that people can use. So if they don't have the language themselves, they can just use your kind of pre-scripted template to go ask friends for money.

I try to make that there's no excuses possible. It's literally like just copy and paste. If you go to milliondollarweekend/bookthinkers, there's all the templates that people can go get exactly that are going to be in the book and the resource is totally free.

Yeah.

And so for me, it's more of how do— as I've built my own businesses, right? So appsumo.com is going to do around $70 million this year. And I've done this many, many times. And then I've had courses that have helped tens of thousands of people. So I've seen how to create a business. I've worked directly for Mark Zuckerberg. Like, I've done this a lot of times for many, many years. And what's fascinating though is that the reason I believe asking and starting are the biggest blocks in business is that how is there so many content on YouTube, on Instagram, on TikTok, but all this business content is fiction because it's not getting the results? And how the fuck do people not have businesses if there's so much out there? And it's that they have these blocks that they just need to overcome. Once they overcome it, the business stuff is like, what do you really need? You need to eat some food. You have— you need your lawn done, you need clothing done, you need cleaning done. That stuff becomes easy once you can build up the asking and the starting things that people get held back on.

Yeah, we met last week, right? Maybe we met on Zoom for the first time and had a conversation last week. Now you're at my house. And, uh, when we were having that initial conversation, I think what allowed me to build so much rapport with you right off the bat is we both care about action. Everything happens when you start to take And so you're right, so many of these business books, they inspire people, they motivate people, but they don't get them across that action threshold where results start to happen. So when you were writing this book, did you have that in your mind? Like, how can I help people take better action?

Yeah, so for example, there's a guy named Tom Grow, and what we're doing— what we've done with the book to basically battle test it— besides, I've started so many different companies that have failed And I've done a lot of companies that have succeeded. You guys can go to appsumo.com or tidykal.com or sendfox.com and these different businesses. What I did is as I was writing the book, we basically beta tested the chapters.

Mm-hmm.

So I want to basically make sure that yes, it works for me, but is it going to work for the reader? Because I've read a lot of these books and I'm like, okay, okay, more fiction, more fiction. I wanted nonfiction. I wanted something that's going to be true. And so each chapter had 10 beta readers that went through all the challenges. Then now every single weekend for the past three months and for the next six months, I have five people every single weekend going through the book. And so the transformations of people actually reading the material—it's been phenomenal to see. And so there's guy Felipe Rubio; he sent me a voice memo recently crying. It's kind of weird for me. I don't know what to do here. But the fact that he's been one—he's a developer, he's from Brazil, and he's been wanting to get a business going. And so from building confidence, from getting momentum, from getting the dollar and taking action. Now the steps are easy. And so he's building a business now. He's already got some customers helping developers in Brazil get American-paying jobs. And those people are paying him money to be able to do that.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And so that's something that he has been thinking about doing it. He's been talking to his friends about doing it. He's been psyching himself out about doing it. But a lot in the book, and even for my own self, it's like, what's my dream? Is it a private jet? Is it just groceries on a weekend? Is it just having groceries? Like, I just want to be able to have groceries. Or, you know, maybe like your friend Derek, is it a creative outlet or something you're just excited to do? And so I think someone with this book is like, all right, we're gonna help you make sure it's gonna work. All you have to do is the work. But the exact steps for your mind and the exact actions to get to your dreams are right in there.

I was just consulting my notebook because I was like, you have this number, what was it called? It's called the freedom number. So the freedom number is the realistic number that you need to survive on a monthly basis. Is that essentially what it is?

The freedom number is the dream.

Oh, it's the dream.

Okay. Yeah, the freedom number is that some people think, oh man, I want to have a million dollars. And I think what that does is it stops you from today. And if you can figure out what is the minimum amount of money I need to be making so that I don't have to report to anybody— and that was my number, $3,000. It was $1,000 to live, $1,000 for food, and $1,000 to invest. And I was like, if I can just figure out how to get that and keep my cost of living very low, I don't have to have a day job. I worked at Intel in a cubicle. Like, there's the distance between me and the people out there who wanna be where I am is actually much closer than they think.

Mm.

And so the reality is, is that if you can have a very low cost of living, if you can have your freedom number, and guess what? I've had people's freedom number $20,000. I was like, wow, dude, you have a good life. Or I've had people with less, that's maybe even $100 because they don't need $3,000. They're like, I just wanna have something that's a creative outlet. So Jennifer Hudson sells cookies. Her and her husband are in Dallas, Texas, and they just wanted to have a little bit more extra money. So she posted on Facebook each week, I got cookies.

Hmm.

And she got cookies. And so I think if you can figure out how to keep your cost of living low, think of what your dream is, and all right, if I can get my freedom number to whatever that is for yourself, that is your number, then you're able to actually take more risk and have more fun. You're like, all right, well, I can get to this number.

Huh.

What else? How much further can I go with it? And I do think people create unrealistic dreams or unrealistic goals that they're never able to attain. And so with me, for $3,000, I got to that with AppSumo pretty much within the first month. And then now, you know, 13 years later, it's a $65-70 million plus revenue business.

Well, I was telling you before that my audience is primarily young entrepreneurial people, right? They're aspiring entrepreneurs, they want to start this first business. business, or maybe they're in the middle of that journey, they're a small business owner. And so I do think this book is perfect for those types of people because how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. You have to start going from $0 to $1, and then from there you continue to build up. You find your freedom number, you set realistic expectations, you build the ask muscle, and you start to execute, right? And so I think that your book is perfect for that person. And, um, you I wanted to give a little bit of context on my journey. I think the only reason I jumped into entrepreneurship when I did was because I was blissfully ignorant. I thought I could generate $1 million tomorrow, and so let's go all in on a business, right? And it didn't happen. And what I've noticed with my friends now that most of us are in our late 20s, early 30s, is that people have more responsibility. They have wives, they have kids, partners, a full-time job that they now enjoy a little bit. And so they don't want to take on additional risk because they think that business that they want to start, it takes $1 million to get there, whatever the case is. So I'm really happy that you're talking about what you're talking about because it's realistic action. It's how do you take the next couple of steps and build a little bit of momentum.

I think risky— risky to me would be staying at Intel. Risky to me would be being 45 or being 35 or being 25 and being like, Is this what it's gonna be like?

Yeah.

That seems risky to me. And the reason that I've tested this book, the reason I've had success with the book, the reason you can see my businesses, is that everyone has a weekend free. Everyone has 52 chances to change their life. Oof.

There's—

that's it. That's it. And if you have a wife, or if you have a husband, if you have a kid, if you have a— it's very tough to make time, but you have a weekend. And what can you get done in a weekend? And what can that be in 30 days? What could that be in 12 months? And you've been doing Book Thinkers how long now?

7 years, 6 years.

7 years. And you said you had your biggest month ever? So that builds to a million, and that builds to what could be $10 million, it could be $70 million, it could be hundreds of millions of dollars. But the point is that you have to get started, as me and you both similarly do, now.

Yeah, it seems like You mentioned this earlier. It seems like you think a little bit about how we only have a limited time on this planet, so you might make the most out of your time, right? So I have a tattoo on my chest that says, Memento Mori, remember your own mortality. And I think about that constantly because death, like the reminder that we are going to die at some point, encourages me to make the most out of the time that I have now. Like it encourages bigger, better action because like you said, I don't want to live a life full of regret. And I think most people wish that they started the business, right? Like 5 years ago, 8 years ago, 10 years ago. But the next best time is now. And that's sort of the message here.

You write the book here. Let's just change the name. It'll be Noah Kagan with Nick. We'll just be co-authors of the next one. But I think the thing that people get wrong is that there's low-hanging fruit where you don't have to spend a lot of time and you don't have to spend a lot of money. But I think that's a huge misconception that 99% of people get wrong. Like, guess what? You literally can go on YouTube or Instagram or any of these platforms for free and get an audience. For free! That's my favorite price.

Yeah.

Right? And then you can actually turn that audience and those interested fans into customers one day in any different types of industries. There's a buddy of mine in San Diego, he runs a gardening site, makes millions of dollars. He's the number 1 gardening YouTuber.

Oh man.

Which is like gardening, right? My mom gardens and doesn't make anything. And that's okay, it doesn't have to be a business, but for him it is. And he's able to actually, his name is Kevin, turn his interest, which can be in a lot of different areas, it doesn't have to just be tech. So if you've seen our YouTube channel, we just met a guy who owns oil tankers. Or I just met other people who have done commercial insurance. So the variety of things to actually how you want to spend your time is really just up to you. So if you're interested in books and making that your life, that's awesome. Or Isaac, it's music. Derek, it's music. Or Isaac, it's videography. For me, it's promotion. I just found that, and this is an easy trick, I don't like tricks, easy tip for anyone out there. Just think about what you like doing for free. And I'm blogging and tweeting and emailing and promoting things for free since 2000.

Hmm.

Since 2000. I love it. And I'm gonna do it for the next 23 years. And so it's like, alright, there's some pattern in that I'm doing for free. What are ways this weekend with little time, with little money that I can see if there's businesses around what I'm interested in?

Do you think people get caught up in the buzzwords of purpose or passion a little bit too much? Or is what you're saying your purpose and your passion is what you're doing for free?

I think that's an easy way of identifying it. There's other ways that I have in the book for you to help figure out what kind of business you be suited for. When I was 25, I was in Argentina with Tim Ferriss, and I was building Facebook games. And I remember being in the middle of the street, and it's like very romantic, you can cue the music, and I was just like, what's the meaning of life? And I was like, I'm like waiting for the answer, you know, the movie, they have the answer. And then in there, in the street alone, it was, there is none.

Right.

And so what I have found in finally many years of practice and therapy and all my own evolution, 2 ways that have changed my perspective on meaning. And number one is hard work. It's hard work.

Yeah.

And the hardest— the harder the work, the more meaningful it feels. Period. And I think the second part of it is finding work that actually matters to you. So do something hard that actually matters to you. And for me, making YouTube content, putting this book together, meeting people like you. Like, I was— 10 PM at night or almost 10 PM, I'm fucking juiced. Like, like, I'm very— this, like, this gives me life, right? And then we're gonna go, uh, promote more people, and then I get to go do promoting software on appsumo.com. And so it's finding the thing that actually gives you the energy. There's a phenomenal book, is it on the shelf? Power of Full Engagement.

No. But it will be now that you're making the recommendation. I'll get it for you.

But highly recommend. And that book is just the same concept, which is where are you getting energy from? Right? And so for me, I found it through this. And so just be mindful in your days and your activities, especially when you're younger. You have all this free time to go and explore that stuff.

Funny enough, I have a young guy on my team. He was here this morning and he was talking about taking his first solo travel trip. And I told him that after reading The 4-Hour Workweek, I went to Buenos Aires by myself for 5 weeks.

Ooh.

I didn't know anybody in South America. I didn't speak Spanish, but I went and I sort of had some of those similar moments where I was just like, this is beautiful, this is amazing. And I didn't find the answer immediately, but I knew I was on to something. And the something for me at the time was actually freedom to make my own decisions and to live a life like embracing difficulty and exploring and like curiosity. Those are the things that, you know, that matter to me. I was employed at a full-time job at the time, but I just went to Argentina. And so it's cool that you mentioned that.

Well, 2 things for you that I think your audience can learn from is what was your freedom number? Because everyone has one. What was it when you were getting going, like, oh man, if I could just make this number, like, I can go move and do my full thing full-time, which you did. And then secondly, I am curious for you, how did you get going? Is that what you're sharing before we got on camera in podcast world was how you approached it, which is very similar to the playbook that, that I recommend for people?

So Derek and I have had a lot of these long conversations. He's going to laugh at me because I lived on one end of the extreme and he lived on the other. His was frugality for a while. Mine was crazy spending. So what's different about my story is right out of school, I took a job, full-time job at a software company, rose through the ranks. I was making 6 figures right out of school. And so as a result, I built a lifestyle that— So It costs $8,000 to $10,000 a month. And so when I started to build my freedom number and look at those numbers, it was not something that I could realistically develop within Book Thinkers at the time immediately. So my story was a little bit different. Now in hindsight, I spent a little recklessly. I definitely could have been more frugal, but my freedom number, it made it harder to transition into the business full-time.

Yeah.

It really did. And, you know, the original version of BookThinkers, like I was describing, was a mobile application for people to retain and implement more from the books they were reading. And Derek and I, plus one of our other friends, Alec, we spent tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours of our time, and it didn't work. So when I decided to continue with the business, the first successful form of monetization came when authors started to reach out to me and say, hey Nick, your audience is a good fit for my book. I'd love to pay you for a book review. See, we had built this audience in anticipation of an app release. The app never really successfully came out, but authors started to find value in my audience. And so that's how the business started to build. And each time I'd finish one of those engagements, I'd ask our author clients, hey, is there anything else that I can help with? Because one day I want this to be my full-time thing. So I wish I had read this, really I do, earlier in that journey because I never thought about a freedom number. I just built this lifestyle that required too much money. And so it took me, I think, longer to transition into the business than it would have if I was more cognizant.

Yeah, because when you have your freedom number, then you're like, oh, if I can get that— guess what? That's how you can actually get that freedom number 100x if you really want to grow it. Because you're not pressured once you have enough money to be free, which is what 99% of people want. We literally just met a guy, I don't know if he's 9 figures worth, might be higher, and he's like, yeah, I just want freedom. And so it's a very universal thing. And I think the other thing that you did that I really like, there's 2 pieces of it, is that it's not risky. You didn't go and quit your job in like Silicon Valley, which I don't recommend. That's why I left for Texas.

Mm-hmm.

You said, all right, I have a day job, I'm making 6 figures, But this is not my dream. My dream is to have something of myself. And so you're like, all right, let me start something on the side so I can eventually get that going. I think the second thing you did, which is more of a mindset shift, is that when we start businesses, people are so afraid of different things and they don't realize they're afraid. They're like, no problem, I'm tough. They don't think about it that way. But if you only just think of yourself as an experimenter, and something I talk about more extensively and give examples and challenges, a lot of the book is challenge-based. and activities, that's the way I learn, is that when you experiment, what happens? You fail. And if you can just learn the behaviors, if you can learn the templates, then as long as you're experimenting, you're like, yeah, of course it's gonna fail. And eventually, just like you did, it led you to eventually get to the outcome where you're like, all right, well, this isn't working, but this thing is. And I've done that so many times with AppSumo. I've done it with my other companies that I've started that eventually have led to 7 and 8-figure businesses.

Yeah, you're highlighting something that my audience has heard me talk about a few times, but repetition leads to retention, right?

Hmm.

When I was growing up, I was taught in the public education system that failure was a bad thing. But I think once you start your own business, you realize failure leads to progress and failure is actually a good thing. It's just part of the process. And so when you talk about optimizing for rejection and, or, you know, seeking rejection, And strengthening your ask muscles, that's what you're looking for. You're getting used to it. And through repetition, you'll become desensitized to failure and it will start to look more like opportunity. So I love that you're highlighting that.

I mean, 2 stories for me would be, I would say there's a guy, Jason Blake, and we have some challenges in there. And when you get rejected and you realize you're alive, you realize how much stronger you actually are than you think. And it's like, oh, how much further can I go? Yeah. How much else can I do? And I just remember being a kid and my dad would do it. We'd go to like a garage sale and someone else was buying something. He's like, I'll pay, I'll pay double what that person wants. And I was like, you're really gonna do this? And he's like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? They say yeah, I get it. And they say no, it's fine, we move on. And he would go door to door selling copiers, doing the same thing, like, hey, you wanna buy a copier? And I remember being 8 years old just kind of being so embarrassed. And then now, you know, 41, that's what I do. Now I'm 41. You know, when I was in the airport today, I was going through the checkout line. I still push myself. It's not a superpower, it's accessible. Like, if you wanna get better, if you wanna have a business, if you wanna have a dream, if you wanna have your own money and be able to scale it to unlimited amounts, it's just practicing asking. So we're at the airport, I just went up to the counter and I said, my partner and my friend who's with me, can they just come and board at the same time with me? And they're like, sure. So you'd be— the downside of it is a moment of uncomfortableness. The upside is your dreams. And the upside is a lot of— like us flying here today to an island and going on a sailboat with a 9-figure, 10-figure person who taught us about life.

So speaking about the airport experience, in the book you talk about asking for 10% off next time you order coffee. And that's actually something that I practiced for a while. So I'd go out for wings with my buddies and I'd ask the hostess or the waitress at the end, can I get 10% off my order, and then you just have to shut up, right? That's the experiment. And I've had more success than you can imagine asking for discounts on virtually everything that I've ever purchased. And so yeah, it's, it's— you have to get over the fear of asking, but you'll also be like you were today, pleasantly surprised with the results, like getting to board early or whatever the case is.

I think there's, there's different components because people have dreams and people watch you and be like, I want to do Book Thinkers. But it's— and they watch this stuff online, but they're not— it's not happening still. So there's still some disconnect that needs to be worked on so they can get to their dreams. And so that's a lot of the exact things that I was surprised about. I thought, hey, let me just teach you exactly how I built multiple 7 and 8-figure companies. But there's still some other parts that no other book has really covered. So for yourself with this, this asking part, which is a core component of it, what did you learn about yourself as you've done these asks?

Well, I did door-to-door sales for a long time. I did, I did. I ran my own house painting business in college for 2 summers, hired a bunch of buddies, went door-to-door, sold these jobs, and I overcame the fear of rejection. And like you talk about in the book, I learned that it's part of the process and that it can be fun. And when you view it as fun, it is fun, right? Perception is reality. And so by the time that I started doing these fun asks and putting my friends and stuff through the experiment of asking for 10% off your coffee or, you know, asking for 10% off wings or something like that, yeah, you realize that people are just people. The person that you're asking is just a person. They want to be helpful. Typically they'll be like, I don't know, nobody's ever asked me that before. And then they'll ask their supervisor, can you have 10% off? And they'll be like, sure, why would I care? You know, so People are just people, and I think that's probably the biggest thing that I've realized. You know, if you're knocking on doors or you're asking for a discount, you're just interacting with another human being, and it's probably the first time that they've ever been asked the question you're asking them.

Yeah, I mean, business at the end of the day is an ask. Yeah, period. You're asking someone else for something else in exchange, and the more that you can get stronger at that, the more you— as you've exactly said, hey, I've put in the reps. It's not something that Nick and Noah have that I can't get. Everyone else can get it too. You just have to go and do it.

Do you think that everybody is a good fit for starting a business? I mean, do you think everybody listening and watching today should try their hand at entrepreneurship?

Yes.

Yeah?

Yes.

I've asked that question a few times and people say no, I don't think everybody should. Why do you say yes?

You'll learn more about yourself than anyone else. What I would say is that you need to learn yourself before any of this. So if you know yourself and you're like— I've met a lot of people. There's a guy named Rick, worked with me at Intel, drove a minivan. Loved it. And I was like, dude, Intel sucks. I hate— I literally would sleep at the desk. I would put my chair in front of my cubicle and I'd have a sleeping bag and a pillow, and then I would just sleep like probably about half the day, sometimes longer.

Oh wow.

And I would just— and I would— dude, I got raises there. I was like doing really well, right? So just imagining it. And so Rick, it worked for his life. And Rick was actually smarter than me. Rick was actually— we'd be meeting, I'm like, this guy's much better than me, but his ambition And his dreams were different than mine. And so there's nothing wrong or right. And that was like a surprising moment for me, 'cause I thought everyone wants to have their own business. But what I would say is that putting myself out there in a business, and it doesn't have to be knocking on doors, which is, for a lot of people, would be super uncomfortable. It could be just putting yourself out on a tweet. It could just be like asking, posting something even lighter. Let's go even lighter. Put something you have for sale on eBay. You don't have to even see them. You know, let's just even go, you know, just— That's a good point.

That is a business.

People think you have to be creative in business. You don't. You just have to find something that people actually want. And the idea is just getting that stuff going. I think what you do is you just learn about yourself. You learn how to interact with others. So I'm guessing when you've talked to me— Nick was talking to me about pitching his book marketing for Million Dollar Weekend. I was like, this guy knows how to sell. Like, I'm like getting my credit card. I'm like just about to Venmo you. I don't know what I'm doing here. But that's just a skill that you've learned that— guess what? If you have a day job, You're gonna ask for a raise. If you want to get a significant other, you're gonna have to actually communicate. And I just think you develop and grow so much about yourself through entrepreneurship. I can't tell you how many different things I've learned about myself in leadership. I'm in meetings and I was in a meeting with Nick and Sean and I have a reaction to something and I was like, oh, maybe I should think differently about how I approach this stuff. And it's like only because I'm an entrepreneur and I'm creating something, it's developed me in just so many different facets. And I think everyone should try it. And everyone, not even try it, everyone should do it and see if it's something you want to do. But regardless, they'll get some growth out of it for themselves.

When you were describing all of those benefits, I was thinking that as I just went through the experience of writing my very first book, it was very similar to starting a business. I went through a lot of those same things. So do you think everybody should write a book as well? I mean, what was your process like? Was it a lot of self-reflection and learning?

Should everyone write a book?

Or are you like, no? Because that's fine too. It's kind of like a business though, isn't it? It's like—

Yeah, yeah. I think there's 3 things I've noticed in books. There's 3 key things. First off, anyone could write a book. That's, that's actually really easy. It's the second thing though, it's really hard to write a great book, right? And then the third part, it's actually really, really fucking hard to get people to read. Well, hold on.

What's the difference between writing a book and writing a great book?

Because a lot of people think they have a book in them and they write a book and it's like very not— it's just not a good book. And what most people do backwards, and this is exactly what I teach the opposite of, is that they write the book without the audience. They write the book without the customer. So they have to think about what's the customer, the reader, actually want. And that's missed out most of the time. So that's why they're writing just a good book.

Mm-hmm.

They're like, oh yeah, it's like, it's a fiction book. And that applies in any category. Then writing a great book, so this book for me took 3 years. And it took 20 years of business and working for Zuckerberg and working at Mint.com, failing all these times, finally getting a very successful 8-figure bootstrap business to be able to write a great book. And then to write the book, it's not only that. One of my strategies in businesses is hiring the elite. So for this book, I hired James Clear, proposal writer. James Clear sold over 10 million copies, just to give you an idea. Like, that's pretty elite. I hired his proposal writer.

It is elite, yeah.

That's pretty elite. And then Tal Raz, who's written 2 of the best-selling business books of all time— you have them here.

I do have a couple of them, yeah.

Yeah, so he's written Never Split the Difference and Never Eat Alone.

Yep, wherever they are.

They're somewhere. You have both of them. Then I hired him to be my collaborator on the book. And then I've worked with some of the best-selling authors of our generation to make sure that the content Mm-hmm. And I, this is something I also do in our business. So I hired the CMO of Glassdoor and Zapier to be my marketing advisor. And I have the guy who runs Indeed.com to be our operational advisor. And there's just people across the board. And I think that's a strategy. One, you don't have to actually pay full price. You know, I love deals. And you can actually hire the people on an hourly basis. So maybe it's $500, maybe it's $1,000, but that one hour, millions. Like our advisor Moody, I can't say his hourly, But with Eagle Asko, millions of dollars he's made for us without a doubt. And so with the book, to get to level 2, which is a great book, it took, it took 3 years to get even to that. And that's proposal writer James Clear, Tal Raz, beta readers for every single chapter. I had 10 beta readers, separate beta readers. And then now every single weekend I have 5 people going through the entire book from start to finish with document. So there's, it's not as much chance And I don't really like hope in business. So I think about how do I stack the deck in succeeding. And then level 3 now is like if you've created a great product, which a lot of people have created great products. And sometimes I walk around and I think every person here can have something great if they want it. But you have to ask or you have to get going. You can't just wish for it. And so I do think level 3 with books in general though is that are you willing to do everything possible to let people know about it. And I would say that I've It's not about working hard because no customer cares I worked hard. None of my customers give two shits if I worked hard. They care if I can solve their problems. And I believe if people actually want to change their life and get a business, yeah, so this book will do it. So I'm working my ass off to make sure I tell as many people as possible, like, yeah, I think this is the book that's finally going to be nonfiction in getting businesses going.

Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, it gets me excited. You know, I just had a chance to go through part 1 of the book and we talked about how it is very actionable. It's straightforward. It's to the point. And so you can see that you put a lot of hard work into it. And you also highlighted something that I love, which is you're literally condensing decades of lived experience and lessons into days of reading so people can have a weekend that changes their life. And that's pretty cool. I mean, there's no better form of investment or condensing time than that.

Yeah, I personally like— that's what was cool about your channel. I love reading, and people can say if you— just because you like eating food doesn't mean you're a good cook. But I love reading. And so it's been fun to be on the other side of that table to be like, okay, do I actually like reading this book? And it's taken 3 years, literally 3 years to get to a point where I'm like, okay, this is fucking good.

Yeah. Well, listen, as Book Thinkers continues to grow and expand and diversify, differentiate from all the other book accounts, book reviewers, that type of thing, I think that the action piece, that will be my lane. I only want to talk to people that help other people take action. Write their books with action as the focus. And so if somebody reads your book and they choose not to take action, yeah, it's not going to help them. But if they do choose to take action, their lives will change. So I don't want to just sit back and review books and talk to cool people. I want to talk to people that are going to help my audience take action. So if you're part of the Book Thinkers family, you're out there willing to implement these books. And I think that's what it's all about. Like, you know, and that's why it's a cool, cool opportunity to talk to you.

Dude, it's, uh, it's been— it's just such an— I think that when you ask, should everyone be an entrepreneur? I'm in your house in Taunton.

How do you say it? Taunton.

Taunton. Because I was willing to take a step and a half.

Yes. Yeah.

And it doesn't mean you have to have a Ferrari. If that's what you want, that's great. If it's Miatas, Miata life. Okay. I do have a Tesla, but I love my Miata. I love it. So I drove to the airport. And so it's just being able to take that first step and get that going. And then it puts you in places that you could have never imagined. Put me on a sailboat tonight. Put me in your house. Like my best friend who I'm gonna go see tomorrow, my body tutor Adam Gilbert, was because I took a chance blogging, which the upside was meeting him and having literally my best friend, my guardian angel. The downside was nothing because I enjoy it. Like even if no one else read it, I was super happy about doing that. And I think for everyone out there, doesn't matter your age. It's just like, all right, what are you curious about? Let's go explore that. Yeah, enjoying the passage of time.

Yeah, that's what it's all about.

We're on a planet. I don't know, like people miss that fucking memo. But we're literally in space. And you're like, ah, is this person not gonna like my idea? Like, you're on a planet, they don't care about you. And so let's build up muscles so that when you go do that stuff and if they didn't care, guess what? You can keep moving forward and you're gonna be fine.

Well, and since you don't care about your Rolex collection and it doesn't bring you energy, if you wanna donate it to Taunton, Massachusetts, I know a guy who could use some. I don't wear a watch anyway. Do you?

Yeah, I think get the— for me, it's been commemorating moments. It's almost like you're— it's probably the same as your tattoos. Right, so you have a tattoo that's like, okay, this is a different story of my life.

Yeah, I've been tattooed in 15 different countries so far, and so I'm collecting them as souvenirs, and I can like zap back to this experience. And yeah.

Have you talked about all your tattoos on here on the podcast?

Not— only a handful of them get brought up, kind of the ones that are visible, but I'm like tattooed everywhere.

Is there one, any other stories you have not shared that you want to share on here?

I've shared all the ones that are visible for the most part, but I'll pick one and share it with you. So this one, for instance, Two Wolves. There's a poem and it kind of goes like this. An elder Cherokee is talking to his grandson and he says, grandson, but there's a battle going on, on in all of us between two wolves. One represents kindness, forgiveness, tenderness, all the positive things in life— altruism, gratitude. The other represents all the negative things in life: evil, greed, envy. And so the kid looks up and he says, well, which one wins the battle? And he says, the one you feed. And so I love that poem because it just reinforces positive thoughts. We were talking about optimism before, and so this is a daily reminder for optimism. But I also got it tattooed in Lisbon, Portugal, and the national animal of Portugal is the wolf. And so it's like, you know, I try to find these opportunities to get tattoos that are meaningful, that reinforce positive behavior, but are also souvenirs.

Dude, hell yeah. I wanna get tattooed.

Thank you for asking. You don't have any?

Not yet. My goal is 80. Once I'm 80, just full. Until 80, I'm like, I don't have anything I want on my body full-time. Yeah, but 80, I'm gonna probably— I'll get matching.

Do you have tattoos? Yeah, get this one please. I have zero. Derek, you have a couple.

I got a yin-yang when I was 18.

Yeah, so, but tattoos are kind of like starting a business. There's a lot that you learn when you permanently ink yourself, and then you go, what the heck did I just do? You know, but then you choose to start more businesses or get more tattoos, and yeah, life's good.

I think one of the big things that I've worked on, and I think literally every person out there can work on, is just being nicer to ourselves about these experiences and not having so much judgment around our behavior. Like, oh, I'm guilty for this, or I'm bad about this. It's just like, hey man, I'm at least trying. I'm at least putting— I'm at least in the arena. Which I think, you know, is kind of a common thing today, which is like, at least I'm in the arena. And I had an experience last week where I was thinking— there's been 2 days. One day I was outside and it started raining and I was bicycling. I was like, well, fuck it, I'm already outside bicycling, I'm just gonna keep riding. Versus another day I was inside and it's raining, I'm like, I'm not gonna go out.

Yeah.

And I think that was just a good thing for me with life is like, at least get out there, at least get going. And sometimes it's like, it's gonna rain. You're like, well, I'm out here already. At least I'm gonna keep going. And eventually you get home and you're like, damn, I'm really proud of myself.

Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. All right, we'll start to wrap up here. There's a question that I've just started asking people and I find it really interesting. What is the book that you've gifted the most? over the last couple of years?

Number one book for me would be Donald Miller, Million Miles in a Thousand Years. So someone asked me a different question around like what book would I teach at college, and I think what I like to think about is like what are the fundamentals. And so I think that book, or 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, is a fundamental book. And so I've read that book I think that's an interesting way of thinking about it too, is like we always are looking for the next thing. Like, what's the next book that'll finally teach me that one thing? And what's the next video or the next tweet or the next Instagram, the next TikTok? And most of them just aren't true, or you can't— they're full of shit. They don't actually know anything.

Yeah.

And what I really appreciated about Donald's book was just more his message is how do you live an interesting life? That book I've just bought for so many different people because it's not as common, and I like books that maybe aren't as popular. So I think that's also how you get an edge to some extent. And with his book, it was more about how are you doing interesting things, doing interesting work, and doing it with interesting people.

Yeah.

And he tells it through his own experience of being basically a degenerate loser and like how he went and biked across America and how he changed. And he really wanted this woman, and so he finally— even though she's in a relationship, he's like, I know you're in a relationship, but if you ever have a chance with me, I want to do it. And I know we've all felt that. We've all wanted that chance. We've all wanted to take the step. And I think his story is— it's a story which I think people digest better. You've read so many books, you know that the stories are remembered. And so his story is easy to remember, and it inspired me to bike across America. And I just love sharing that book, and it's just got a positive message.

Have you read Die with Zero by Bill Perkins?

Yeah.

He's in Austin as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, similar kind of message, just like live through experience and go do the thing.

It's also different when you're partying with Dan Bilzerian, I would say, like his stuff.

It is.

I think his book is good as well, and then a similar vein that inspired me a few years ago when COVID hit, and my— I created a dream list, and it's something I break down in the book, but one of my goals that I still have this year is to spend all the money I make or give it away. And it's a little bit of Bill Perkins and a little bit of just not enjoying the money we make and not enjoying the life we make. So it's definitely changed my behavior about like, okay, I'm just gonna buy that thing. All right, I actually have 2— those $50,000 bikes, I have 2 of them just so that I don't have to travel with one. And it's more like, let me either spend it or let me go donate it or buy for people other things.

Yeah, it's funny because we were talking about does money buy happiness. Uh, Dan's been on this podcast before. And he says no. He built a life where money no longer brought him happiness. In fact, I mean, there was nothing that could essentially bring him happiness. And it was a really depressing thing to hear from somebody who has it all, right? But he has nothing essentially because none of it brings any joy to him anymore. And that's kind of a sad place to be. So I think what you're talking about is, you know, purchase things that bring you energy. And forget things that take your energy away. And a lot of people, as they make money, they're not conscious of that.

Yeah, I don't know about Dan. I haven't interacted with him as much. I think what's been interesting about doing so many YouTube videos similar to you, as we're chatting with so many different people, is who are we envious of? Like, who is the person that you're like, okay, yeah, there's something clearly happened different here? And I interviewed Jean-Paul DeJoria, founder of Patron Tequila, Paul Mitchell Hair Care, and There was 2 things that really stood out for me, and the first one really changed how I approached life, and it was kindness. He's just really kind to other people. He's genuinely kind. It's not some bullshit like, oh, you know, I'm kind, but not really. Like, he's trying to get— he's like, no, I'm— He got— he sold Patron for $3.5 billion, and I think he donated a billion or some ungodly number. And he's just genuinely a kind person. And we came to his house You fade a scones?

So you're saying it's nicer than Taunton, Massachusetts?

No, dude, no.

I watched your clips with him, by the way. It was a great interview.

He's fire, man. He's just a kind person. And, um, no, Taunton's like number one Airbnb in America, isn't it? Where people are coming here.

It's a big rental market.

I never knock people's cities. Another story about that for another time. But the second thing for him is that he's actually, uh, in terms of What I admired about him is he's actually similar to you. He's a salesman. But what stood out for me with him, which I admired and I really took away from me, is that he's selling what he believes. And I think when we think of selling our video skills or music production, or if it's cooking, or if it's writing, whatever it is, we're like, "I don't want to bug them." It's not bugging if you believe it'll really help. Yeah. And so for him, he's like, "This hair care product is literally the best ever," and I am excited to go tell people. And Patrone Killer, he's like. There is nothing else better than this in the market. And what we miss out is that for you, Nick, with Book Thinkers, people don't realize, it was 7 years to get to here. But you believed and you kept going. And there's things that I recommend in the book for people to keep going that can help them. But what he did was that like for 2 years Patron Tequila didn't actually sell well.

Oh yeah.

Did not sell well. And that's something we all miss out on. We're like, of course Derek sold his company and did really well. That's like, okay, you're missing the time that he just believed and kept going and he found that. And I really admire that he found products he really liked and he stuck with selling and believing and educating people on things that he was like, yeah, this is an amazing product.

Yeah, I love that. Well, that's like a mic drop moment, but we'll do 2 more quick things. First, if somebody's this far into the interview and they still haven't decided if they'd like to preorder or purchase a copy of this book, if it's live, like whenever we're putting this out, What's the final message to them? Like, who is the target user for this book? The target user, because they're going to apply the book. Not reader, user. And like, what's the expected outcome if they choose to read this?

What I'd recommend is that go get the things for free at milliondollarweekend.com/bookthinkers. Free resources based on things that are already going to be in the book. Just go there for free. Just go to milliondollarweekend.com/bookthinkers. And you can have the resources that you need. There's going to be more help that's going to be in the book that you'll need support on, but it'll at least give you some of the basics. Who I think the book is for is twofold. It's someone who's tried and it hasn't worked, which is most people. It's like, I built the app, I spent the money, I want to be a videographer, I want to be a freelancer, and it hasn't worked yet. Maybe I've watched enough YouTube videos and I'm still not a millionaire. And so it's someone who's tried at least something, they're willing to do the work, and it hasn't happened yet, and I can help them.

Mm-hmm.

I would say the second person is someone who's like, hey, I just have a dream and I don't really know where to go. Like, I'm not really sure, I think I'd like to do this entrepreneurship. I would say that my book to me is like, okay, there's Tim's book and my book are like the bibles for entrepreneurship. And that to me would be an honor. That people ultimately, as you said with Tim and your inspiration, is that people read the book and then 7 years later, multimillion-dollar business.

Yeah, I love that. I think it's a great answer. All right, final question. Everything disappears. Your book, your YouTube, all of your interviews, they're gone. And you can leave the world with one message. And it's not the kindness because you've hammered that home and I believe in that, but that can't be the final one. So we need something different.

Really?

What's the message that you'd like to leave everybody? You can throw it on a billboard, you could just say it now.

Go Pats.

Go Pats!

Dude, that's it. Day one, go Pats. Bill a check for life.

Bill a check for life.

Let me only push back a little bit on that question in a good way, is that I think in my 20-year-old Noah, I was always looking for something new. And I always thought my next thing was finally gonna make me feel good. I thought if I got to $1 million and I told my dad, he would be like, yo, good job. And I'd be like, oh, it's finally like I can feel good about myself.

Yeah.

And it never did. Even when I made my first million, I was 30, and I was actually doing basic work. And I have that in the resource section, milliondollarworkweekend.com/bookthinkers. And the reality was, is that sometimes it's not about the new thing, it's about the consistent thing. And so what I would encourage anyone to do is that how can you think about longevity and consistency and sustainability? More than just trying to go out and do a bunch of new things all the time. And I think that that is a thing that has made me more happy, more rich, successful, and at peace than ever before, because I'm not always trying to chase and find new things to go do.

Yeah, I think that's a great answer. Yeah, one of my favorite books is The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy, and it just teaches small steps in the right direction over a long period of time. That's the goal. Like, love that process, and the rest will happen later on down the road. Yes, but— but that's so hard. Ah.

That's so hard. No, no, no, because everyone knows the things to do, but they still don't do it somehow. Everyone has heard the things to do for business, but they still don't have the business. So what's the disconnect? 'Cause even in our company, we've— I think we're exceptional at this. And I assume that's why we've been able to grow so well. And even us, it's like, everyone knows to stay and keep doing the boring things, and that's how you get rich. But people get distracted. And what do you think the reason is? Why do you think people don't keep compound?

You know, I think the world has moved to a place of instant gratification and where it's harder and harder to delay gratification. So I think, you know, there are so many things sucking our attention. Everything is new and sexy and different and novel and we desire that. I think a lot of us are curious and so we fall out of the routine. It's one of my guesses. I'd have to think about that more. Yeah, what's your answer?

My reality is that sexy is winning, and winning is what's working, and what's working is doing more of what's already working. And what you have to do is be very clear on what your dream is. If you get clear on your dream, then you create a plan, and then you execute the plan, and That's how it works. And so for me, over time, it's just been focusing more on that. And every time it's like thinking the next thing is going to be the easier one, it never is. Um, and so I would say it's experience of doing this for so long and knowing that finally, like, if you have something working, if you have a relationship like your wife that's working, all right, let's just keep going deeper with that. If you have a business that's working, let's go deeper with that.

That's such a— that's an easy metaphor to compare it to, right? Because in a relationship, you're like, that, yeah, that makes so much sense, just go deeper. Like, but with, with a business, I think the, like, the normal thought process is different than that, but it should be more like a relationship. That's cool. I like that. It's a good place to end. For people that want to learn more, you've already given the /bookthinkers, but where should people go? What are your social media handles? Give us everything.

This is from Zig Ziglar, Old School Sales Things. I will tell you, when you're talking about anything in a sales thing and you want people to remember it, you just say it 7 times. So milliondollarweekend.com/bookthinkers.

Repetition leads to retention.

Yeah, dude, gotta check out Book Thinkers. Yeah, milliondollarweekend.com/bookthinkers. All the resources and things we've talked about, how I make my income and things like that, which people would be curious about, um, they can go to that website.

We did it. Cool, man.