Organically Build a Following and Sell More Books with Nick Hutchison

Hey, smart author! Welcome to another episode of the Smart Author Podcast. In today's episode, I'm joined by Nick Hutchison of Book Thinkers, and we spoke about a lot of really awesome organic strategies you can use to get your book out there. So we spoke about how you can use a $1.80 strategy, uh, to get more followers on Instagram, get engaged followers and people who want to check out your stuff. This also works for Facebook. It also works for TikTok as well. We spoke about different ways that you can leverage podcasts to get in front of your ideal readers, and absolutely ways that you can use organic content to get more people to download your book or buy your book and leave you amazing reviews. So I think you're going to get a lot of awesome insights to how someone like Nick at Book Thinkers really leverages the content of his clients' books and repurposes them into amazing organic social content, but then also leverages that for podcasting, creating relationships with podcast hosts, and just getting in super engaged podcasts where they can get a lot of eyeballs on their book. So you're going to get a ton out of today's episode, and I can't wait to hear what you think. Hey, Nick, welcome to the show.

Chris, I'm excited to be here today, man. Can I actually ask you the first question today?

Yeah, sure, go for it.

We just wrapped up 2023. We're recording this at the beginning of 2024, and whenever I meet somebody new, I always love to ask, what was the best book that you read last year?

The best book I read in 2023 was one called Debt Millionaire, and it's all about how you can utilize and leverage property and debt to actually beat inflation with investing. And it was just fascinating. It was basically like, it was a similar format to reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, but with very tangible tactical advice on what you can do to grow your net worth and portfolio and also beat inflation. Because stacking cash is useful, but it's always going to get degraded by the inflation that's always happening. And yeah, it was just like a tremendous book for me.

Yeah, that's amazing. I have invested in a couple of multifamily properties as a result of reading Rich Dad Poor Dad. So I'm definitely a fan of books like that and I'll have to check it out.

Definitely highly recommend. What about yourself? What was your book of '23?

Man, I read about 100 books last year, but my favorite was Be Useful by Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I'm a big fan of leveraging visualization. And when you— when I think about Arnold Schwarzenegger, I think about the greatest dream-to-reality ratio out of anybody that's ever existed, right? So he grows up in rural Austria in a house with No running water, ends up becoming this bodybuilding champion, moves to the U.S., starts making a lot of money in business. Then he gets ten million a movie in Hollywood, even though he can barely even speak the language and nobody can understand him. Then he goes on to be the governor of California, one of the largest standalone economies on the planet. And so just that dream to reality ratio is something that fascinates me because we all have the same potential, and it's people who take action. and that are useful, that close the gap between where they are and where they want to be. And so really fascinating book and just a cool new take from somebody that we all know and love, like Arnold, you know?

Yeah. Oh, I do love that. Well, Nick, I would love if you can catch everyone up to speed with Book Thinkers and kind of your like snapshot of your journey on how you got to where you are today.

Yes, I would love to. So today we'll start there. Today I have an agency called Book Thinkers that helps nonfiction authors promote and market their books. But what always fascinates people is that I was not much of a reader growing up. In fact, I hated books. I didn't think they were cool. So I was more of the athlete stereotype, not really much of the academic. And so you couldn't pay me to do my homework. You couldn't pay me to pay attention in class. Like that just wasn't my vibe. I wanted to play sports and that's all I wanted to focus on. And that behavior, that attitude, It carried with me through most of my college experience as well. But everything changed for me when I took an internship going into my senior year of college at a local software company. And my boss at the time, Kyle, he recognized some unfulfilled potential. That's a nice way of putting it. He saw this 20-year-old sort of cocky, know-it-all sales guy. And he said, listen, Nick, you're commuting an hour each way in the car, 5 days a week. That's 10 hours a week in the car. Listening to the same song or the same radio station for the 10,000th time, it's not going to get you closer to where you want to be in life, but the right podcast might. So I started listening to shows where successful entrepreneurs were being interviewed. And within a week, you know, because I'm driving so much, I realized that all of these entrepreneurs have one thing in common. And that's that their journey either started or was accelerated by personal development or business or nonfiction type books. And so if I was choosing to ignore the advice of the people who did what I wanted to do because I didn't think reading was cool, then I was also choosing to live under my potential. So I started to read really heavily. And Rich Dad Poor Dad by Kiyosaki was actually the first book that I decided to read. And to make a long story short, my friends and family, they didn't really want to hear about the books that I was reading as much as I wanted to talk about them. So I needed an outlet and I turned to social media. Specifically Instagram, and I just started posting about the books I was reading over there to connect with like-minded people. And before you know it, about a year later, I had developed a little bit of an audience. And a year after that, I had authors reaching out to me and offering to pay for book reviews, which was brand new at the time because Bookstagram and BookTok, they didn't exist. BookTube. I had an audience of engaged nonfiction book buyers. That was my niche. And these authors had a book that needed to be sold. And so if I reviewed it, I could sell copies. And I said yes, you know, when these authors started to reach out, getting paid to read as my part-time job was pretty cool. And over time, as I developed a little bit more business acumen and awareness, I realized that I could help these authors behind the scenes, get them on podcasts, help them build their social media followings, do some branding because Not only do I believe from the reader perspective that the right book at the right time can change somebody's life permanently, which is so cool, but also from a business perspective on the author side of things, if the book is a lead mechanism for some type of complementary product or service like coaching, consulting, speaking, you name it, whatever it is, and I can help move books, I can also help build their business. And that's what I didn't realize at first, but developed a realization of over time. So today I have 10 people on my team. We're working with around 150 to 200 authors a year, and man, I love my job. So that's a little bit about my backstory and kind of catch everybody up to what I do today.

Yeah, dude, I love that. And so do you think, you know, just naturally because of your excitement for reading books and sharing books, like that's what like kind of helped you grow your large following and audience?

Yes, I think there are a number of other variables. But I think that's one of the core foundations. And by the way, like I highlighted during my story, there was no preexisting passion for books, right through most of my life, still well over 50% of my life today, I did not read and I did not think it was cool. But the book started to change my life. And then I developed a passion as a result of consistently reading and finding new material that I could use. So the passion wasn't there previously, but it was developed through consistency. And then I became attached to, or I became fulfilled by, that's probably a better term, this thing where I would recommend a book and I'd say, here are my thoughts on it. And it would resonate with somebody in my audience and they would read the book and they would come back to me and they'd say, Nick, you posted about Rich Dad Poor Dad 3 months ago. I struggle with financial literacy and it causes a lot of insecurity. I read the book. Now I'm leading these conversations. Dude, thank you so much for making the recommendation. And I'm like, how can I not go out there and continue to do more and more and more of this? So yeah, that was definitely one of the foundational pillars for why I think that the audience grew so much.

And do you have any recommendations for authors listening to this show on how they can potentially do the same thing by building an audience or You know, obviously leveraging yours.

Yes, I have so many suggestions, Chris, so feel free to stop me anytime you feel like I'm rambling, but I'll try to go slow. My number one recommendation is a little timely, but it's called the $1.80 strategy. Are you familiar with it?

I'm not, no.

Okay, so Gary Vaynerchuk, we all know him, Gary Vee. He's on social media, he's everywhere, he's written a bunch of books. Gary Vee developed this strategy a while back called the $1.80 strategy. So that, that term, your 2 cents, it just means you're giving your feedback, you're giving your genuine thoughts. Well, he says you should go out into the world of social media. Let's focus on Instagram for a minute. And you should go leave a genuine thought, your 2 cents on 90 pieces of content per day. 90 times 2 cents. That's how you get to $1.80. Now to break down the strategy a little bit more, there's a lot of magic here. You search a hashtag related to your book, your ideal follower, your ideal target customer. So for me, I would search hashtag Rich Dad Poor Dad, and then a whole bunch of content comes up and you can filter by trending content. And then what he says to do is go comment on the top 9 pieces of trending content under hashtag Rich Dad Poor Dad. So somebody would post about the book and I would read the caption and I would respond. I would say, oh, I love your take and here's why. And I would try to put like 2 or 3 sentences and then I'd go like every other comment in that comment section because I knew those people also liked Rich Dad Poor Dad. Now the person who's receiving the comment, it's not like, hey, come follow me. It's a genuine piece of feedback and they're going to reciprocate by clicking on your profile. Like, who's this random dude, Book Thinkers, that just left this super in-depth comment on my post? Post. And if they like the content that you're posting, which they probably will, because you're filtering for that, right? I'm only searching hashtags related to people that I know would love my content. The likelihood that they press follow is pretty high. Everybody wants to leverage reciprocity and reciprocate. So you leave a comment, you like somebody else's comment, the likelihood that they follow you is pretty high. Now, when they follow you, you're getting your ideal target follower, because that person A, loves the content that you're putting out there. You know that because they're posting about it. They're a raving fan. And B, that law of reciprocity is important. You comment on their stuff, they're more likely than the average Joe to comment on your stuff as well. And so then you do that on 10 hashtags a day. So 10 hashtags, 9 pieces of content that are trending under each hashtag gets you to $1.80. Few other things are happening here. You're consuming 90 pieces of trending content in your niche every single day if you do the full thing. So over time, you start to understand and see trends and collect data and steal like an artist, as Austin Kleon would say, and start to replicate the content that you know is working in your space. And not only that, you're commenting on 90 pieces a day plus liking a boatload of comments. Those are trending pieces of content, so more people will see your long comment because it's differentiated. There are just so many layers to why this is an important tactic. And I grew my following brick by brick by brick by practicing this $1.80 strategy whenever I had a little bit of free time. So that's one strategy. I'll just mention 2 other strategies real quick that are much shorter. One is consistency. So when somebody is prospecting your account, they're checking you out, they want to know whether or not they should follow. There's a little bit of a recency bias. If somebody sees that you posted content today or yesterday or the day before, And they also see that you're active on your Instagram stories, for instance, they're going to click through. They're going to get to know you a little bit better. And if you're consistently posting content, people are more likely to press that follow button. The third strategy that I'll mention is another one that I, that I learned from Gary Vee. It's called the jab, jab, jab, right hook. So if you're boxing with somebody, you throw a jab. You're not trying to knock somebody out. You're just trying to understand a little bit more about who they are, how they're going to react. That's the same as posting a piece of value without a call to action. You're just showing up every single day providing value, getting to know your audience, building a relationship so that by the time you throw a right hook, which should really only be once in a blue moon, it lands accurately because you know your audience and they know you. And that person's weakened up a little bit, right? They've started to know, like, and trust you. So when you say, hey, please do this thing like buy my book, or preorder my book or buy my course or book me for a speaking gig, they're far more likely to do it because you've been providing value for so long. So I think that $1.80 on a daily basis, plus consistently posting content, plus value over ask, like those, that's the trifecta that allows people to build organic, engaged audiences of raving fans.

Love that. And primarily that strategy is best used on platforms like Instagram?

And like, I think so. Yeah, I think Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook are probably the 3 where, where it could be most useful. I know you're, you're heavy, heavily focused on YouTube. I think that it's a harder strategy to leverage on something like YouTube, because people responding to comments on YouTube, just from my own perspective, are a little bit less likely to click over to the profile. Because it's not creators sharing with creators. It's more like a creator and an audience, you know. Um, but that's just, just, that's just my 2 cents.

Yeah, for sure. What do you think that the best strategies for authors to repurpose their content is? Um, and, you know, specifically they've written a book, how can they repurpose the content from their book into, you know, social organic content to basically just follow up on, you know, what you've outlined?

I think the, I think the best structure for a piece of content in today's short-form social media world is a video that has a strong hook, so a way to grab attention to stop the scroll, something that provides value, that's the meat of the video that comes directly from your book, and then at the very end in certain circumstances you have a call to action. But let's just focus on the first 2. So a solid hook, a way to grab attention that leads into a piece of value from your book. Sometimes I'll hear authors say like, I don't want to give away my whole book for free. But when you look at the most successful books out there, like Atomic Habits by James Clear, you can go read every single article that ultimately led to the book, or The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck by Mark Manson. Like, you can go read every article that led up to the book for free, but people love the condensed version of it. So how do you repurpose content from your book on socials? You just look for standalone pieces of value, frameworks that you can teach, points of value Things that are intellectually controversial, statistics—all of those create great pieces of content where you on social media become known as somebody who provides consistent value, and that's the best way to do it. You know, there's another—I'll lean on him heavily in today's conversation. There's another Gary Vee thing that's coming to mind, which is this concept of document, don't create. And so instead of trying to create new content all the time. Just document yourself reading a passage from your book and post it on social media every day. Just like you know a couple of sentences, and that's a very easy way to repurpose content so that you don't have to worry about creating because that's a barrier that sometimes creates a lot of resistance. And you know the easiest way to overcome that is just document what you're already doing on a daily basis.

Yeah, love it, dude. And you at Book Thinkers, you guys help with getting more reviews for people's books as well. Um, do you have any go-to actionable strategies for someone who doesn't have many reviews yet? You know, they want to get their book out there and into the Amazon algorithms a bit better with a bit more social proof.

Yes, uh, my favorite strategy is actually to get interviewed on podcasts, and here's why. Every time I'm interviewed and I'm talking about Rise of the Reader, I finish the conversation the same way. I say, hey, Chris, amazing conversation, man. Can I ask a favor? And we'll have just finished a great conversation about the book. So you'll be like, yeah, sure. And I'll say, can you please go to Amazon, buy a copy of my book, Kindle, paperback, doesn't matter, and then leave a positive Amazon review? And it matters that you buy a copy first so that it counts as a verified Amazon review, which weighs a little bit heavier. In their algorithm, and since you just interviewed me, you're more likely to say yes. And and then I'll say, in in return, I'm going to head over to Apple, and I'm going to type up a wonderful review for your podcast now that I've been on it, and I know what it's all about, so that I can help you grow your show as well. And we'll kind of end there. I'll go to Apple. I'll write up the review, and I'll screenshot it, and then I'll email it to you, and I'll say, "Hey Chris." Thank you for the wonderful conversation. I've attached a screenshot detailing the review that I just wrote for your Apple Podcast page. I can't wait to see what you read about my book in all caps. And then 10 times out of 10, there's a review up there for the book within a couple of days. So sometimes authors have to get over that friction of asking. But I think that when a podcaster has you on their show to talk about a book, It's the best way to ask and almost guarantee because you're also giving something in exchange for the ask. It's like it's a great sort of mutually beneficial agreement.

Yeah. Going back to the whole point on reciprocity and I actually have done step 1 of 2 there and I sent you a screenshot last night before I went to bed saying that I bought your book and I'm excited for our episode this morning. So I don't know if you read that yet in your morning, but, you know, I will definitely go and do the review portion after the fact.

Well, thank you very much. And yeah, and I will absolutely be leaving your show a positive review. And, you know, when, when you can set up a situation that is symbiotic or mutually beneficial like that, it's a win-win. So many authors, they're out there just asking for reviews, but they're not they're not providing any value in return. And so I try to look for situations where there's a give and a take and it's happening at the same time and they're both aligned with like where the person wants to go. Every podcaster needs more reviews on Apple, right? Yeah, for sure.

And so that, I think that ties in nicely. You guys obviously do podcast booking services for authors as well. So all of these stars are aligning. What's, you know, what's the thing about podcasts for you that make them so impactful for your author clients?

And you have given me an opportunity to tee up my services a couple of times. So I'll just give everybody a quick recap. Today, my agency makes money in 3 major ways. Most of our revenue comes from short-form video production, where we actually fly out to an author with the cameras and the lighting, and we help them turn their physical book into either 50 or 100 pieces of professional video content that can be used not only to sell books and build an audience, but also to generate leads for whatever that book leads to. Number 2 is podcast booking. So placing authors on relevant shows in their niche to talk about their book. And then 3 is social media book reviews. So posting about a book in front of our audience to generate a heck of a lot of attention and also interview them on our podcast. So we can move a lot of books in a short period of time, just given the size of our audience today. So to kind of go back to the podcasting piece, I love podcasts for so many different reasons. Number one, I think that the author loves to feel engaged. They love to buy a service where they are participating. They get to get on to a 30 to 60 minute conversation with somebody who loves the topic that they also love. And get asked about it and talk about it and share that love with also a community of people that can learn from them. So they feel like they are of value and they feel like they're being rewarded in the, in the actual experience itself. Then when the podcast goes out, you know, we coach our authors to ask for certain things to be linked in the description. When a podcast goes out on like 5 to 10, maybe even 15 different platforms simultaneously, it feels amazing. When the content gets repurposed on social media, it feels amazing. When they develop a relationship with that podcaster and it continues in other ways, shapes, or forms, they can collaborate. That feels amazing. So there's just so many different touchpoints where, like, again, the podcaster feels like they're providing value to their audience. The author feels like they're being asked amazing questions and they're providing value to the podcaster's audience. It's a win-win-win scenario. And I'll share one more thing, which is that because we host a podcast and because we had a lot of author celebrities on our show pretty quickly, I got hit up by, I mean, at one point we were getting 20, 25 inbound inquiries for our show every single week from publishers, like traditional publishers, hybrid publishers, PR companies, publicists, independent authors, or podcast agencies. And every single pitch looked exactly the same. It was done via email. And it was 15 paragraphs, maybe with an attachment of background info, credentials, book summary information. And like, maybe they would customize my name at the top of the email. And I was just sick and tired of the transactional relationships. It was like everybody in the space just wanted to get the booking and then be out. And I thought, you know, I wonder if any of my clients are paying for this because we weren't offering that at the time. And a lot of them were and they were unhappy. They felt like what I just highlighted, it's transactional. I don't think anybody's even read my book at the company that's booking for me. It's like, so I thought, well, what if I started a relationship-based podcast agency where we really get to know each author's message and who their target customer is? And then we only put them on shows where that audience is strongly represented. And like from time to time, we'll add bonus shows if we meet a cool host and it might not be perfectly aligned, but like we want to overdeliver for the author. And so that's what we started to do. And so if, if an author is in the audience today and they're looking for somebody to help them get on more shows, it's not expensive. We're charging anywhere from $150 down to $100 per booking depending on value. And it's always in your target audience. So it's like super ROI possible. And I just went off on a little bit of a rant there. But like, yeah, there are, there aren't a lot of like bad actors in the podcasting space. But there are a lot of lazy agencies who just have an email list, and they blast it out to everybody. And I've heard horror stories about authors paying for a service where they get placed on a show that's like, totally the opposite of what their book is about. And it's just, yeah, lazy podcast agencies out there sometimes.

Well, okay, so I've got a story on this one myself. I'm actually like doing and going hard on like getting on podcasts at the moment. And it's kind of from the angle of obviously the author podcasts in the space. So I'd love to talk about yours after, but the other ones as well where it's essentially, you know, just general entrepreneurship. But essentially what the company that I've worked with have done is just curated a list of like 1,500 podcasts. Didn't really, you know, go through and figure out what's like the best fit for Chris Bonetti. And essentially we are doing cold email outreach to each and every person with obviously periodical follow-ups if they don't respond and things like that. And it does, Have that transactional feel, and you do get a lot of people going, "Hmm, stop spamming me," and you know, "Stop emailing me." Like this is not a good fit. And you know, like obviously a lot of people coming back and going, "Hey, yeah, I'd love to chat." And I built some really great relationships. I've seen some huge positives, but I also do understand that there's the negative side to it as well. Like where you know, I'm potentially tarnishing relationships and. you know, even though they might not be good fits and be like super aligned in terms of niche and, you know, the, the type of businesses that we operate, it's still like there's a, a part of me that it's like, you know, ethically I don't feel comfortable, but at the same time it is also getting me so many other benefits and helping me build relationships that I would not have had access to otherwise. So I love your point on Dude, $100 per— $100 to $150 per show is a steal for anyone who wants to get on a relevant podcast and talk to a really good host and, you know, build a relationship with that person. And to me, like, podcasting is less about, like, you know, the— it's definitely about the value and the message I can bring to the show. But I— the number one reason I love doing podcasts personally is because of the relationships I can build with the guests, or, you know, if I'm interviewing, or the host if I'm being interviewed. Um, and so that's been tremendous for me, like getting well known in my industry and, you know, my niche, um, for book marketing. Um, but then also, um, you know, potentially getting new clients and things like that as well. So I'd love to, to hear from your perspective. Obviously, your early days, the podcast was a really tremendous tool for you to grow an initial audience and be, you know, decently well connected with big names and attract a lot of people because of that. Have you seen it benefit your business and your life in other areas as well?

When I was considering starting a podcast— by the way, great question— when I was considering starting a podcast, I watched a few videos that Tim Ferriss had made And he made a point in one of them where he said, even if you interview people and not a single person listens, you want to set up your show so that you're learning and that it is still worth your time even if nobody listens. And that's always how I've felt about our show. I wanted to have follow-up conversations with authors about their books after having read them to address questions that I had. And that's how it started out. Now it's, it's changed a little bit. Now it's a book marketing tool and a lot of the shows A lot of the authors that we're featuring have purchased time, essentially. But like, there's so many famous stories. Well, for me, so many of these stories, like interviewing Robert Greene, who wrote The 48 Laws of Power. I wanted to get on there and say, Robert, why did you write this book, man? It's the number one most banned book in the US prison system. People use this book to take advantage of everybody around them. It's manipulative. Like, what's the reasoning? And he's like, Yeah. You can use the book on the defensive. It doesn't have to be offensive. You can use it to uncover power dynamics that people are using on you to manipulate you so that you can live a better life yourself, not get taken advantage of. And I'm like, oh, I'm happy I asked the question. I never viewed it like that. So there's just so many instances where, where I like go into a conversation having read a book through the wrong lens or something, and I'm learning. So like, that's a major one.

Yeah.

You know, and then before you press record, you know, we highlighted that I was using my podcast at the beginning to build these relationships, to go on a first date with an author, to do business with them behind the scenes, but also to build my own credibility because trust is transitive. If you trust Grant Cardone and I can show that Grant trusts me, then you're more likely to trust me as well, especially if he's resharing content where I'm hyping up his books on his socials.

Yeah.

With the sneaky, you know, kind of mission behind the scenes of like, I just want to attract his followers over to my community. So that's why I was doing it in the beginning. And I, I just like you said, I think it's really important to build a good relationship with the person you're interviewing. And it's just the best first date ever, I think anyway.

Everyone is playing checkers and Nick is playing chess.

Trying to, learning.

Nick, I think that's a really great wrap to today's session. You've given so much and I actually wrote down the $1.80 strategy after you started talking about it and then referenced that it was Gary Vee's. I'm like, oh, actually I have heard that, but not in an explanation like you gave where it was very tactical and tangible. So, you know, that's definitely something I'm going to look to implement myself. Instagram's not really been a focus for me, but maybe it should be, you know. So anyway, I've got some good things like notes to work on myself. And, you know, to wrap up the show, I'd love if you can give everyone one piece of advice and then also let them know where they can go out and check Book Thinkers out, the podcast, you know, your website and things like that.

My piece of advice is to involve your community as you write your next book. It doesn't matter if you have 20 followers or 200,000 followers. By involving your community and allowing them to feel like they are part of building your book, you will have a better chance of selling your book to them. So for me, one of the things that worked this last time around was I posted like multiple cover iterations and said, what does everybody like? Rather than assuming, I literally said to my audience, I will pick whichever cover you vote, you know, in favor of. And like, I had hundreds and hundreds of people pouring their hearts out telling me why one was better than the other. And I literally chose the one that my audience voted in favor of. And so I did that along the way in many different ways, chapter titles, different subjects that should be included in my book, title, subtitle, cover art, bonuses, like everything. I just wanted my audience to feel like they were part of the launch. And again, by allowing people to feel like they are part of the launch, they're more likely to buy the book or preorder the book once it's available for purchase. And I don't see a lot of authors doing that. I see a lot of authors Hey, my book's available all of a sudden. I wrote a book. Surprise. Like, that's a good thing. And I'm like, I don't think it's a good thing. You want to build that relationship before you ask for the money, just like the jab, jab, jab, right hook. And I think that you could do that in marketing as well. So that's my piece of advice.

I think, you know, a lot of people will just go, hey, my book's out and it's $1.99 today. Go, please go buy it. You know, like, I want to get Amazon bestsellers, basically what they're saying. And that's like kind of the extent of how they involve their audience with the book. I have seen a few ask campaigns around covers, and I definitely love that perspective. But going really deep on everything, I think, is fantastic feedback.

Yeah, well, thank you. And I— did you ask where everybody can find me? Yes, I think that was the second part. Yeah, just for, for the readers in the audience, people who love reading books, check out Book Thinkers on Instagram. Over there, we share a new book recommendation every single day. It's all nonfiction business-type material, and I love, I love that community over there. You'll meet a lot of really cool people. And then if you are an author and you're interested in learning more about some of our book marketing services, which I know are differentiated from Smart Author, bookthinkers.com, that's the best place to go.

Awesome. Well, I'll make sure everything is linked up in the show notes for you there. And, um, Nick, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you, Chris.

Damn, what an awesome episode. If you've got a book that you're advertising or not yet advertising and you want some book marketing advice directly from me, I'd love to set up a book marketing review with you. It's basically a 30-minute consulting session that you can get for free, worth $1,000, where we can basically dive right into everything that you're currently doing or not doing and everything that you could do to sell as many books as possible according to your goals. So if you want to sell 100 books a month, 1,000 books a month, or anything in between, you know, we can really help you outline a strategy to help you get there. To book your session with me, just click the link in the description below, smartauthormedia.com/book. Chat, and you'll be able to book a time that suits you to go through everything with me so that we can help you sell some more books starting today. Look forward to speaking to you on the call.