Sell More Books Than Your Follower Count — With Bob Wheatley

had listened to the Brand Builders podcast, sent me a couple episodes. I'm like, you know what? Yeah, I'm, I'm ready for professional help. I need a pro. So ended up signing, signing up on the coaching. And long story short, I had such a good experience as a paying client that I asked Rory and AJ, who are now my bosses, can I work for you? I will quit my job. I was working in a different position, different company. I was like, guys, I will quit my job tomorrow if you let me work for you, because I wanted to be around authors and speakers and business owners. And then all of a sudden I look up at this company, Brand Builders Group, like, I want to work there. These are the type of people that I want to be around. So yeah, in a nutshell, I started as a client to get help with my own books, my own website, my own speaking. And here we are 4 years later. Now I'm a part of the team. I've officially drank the Kool-Aid and Man, it is, it has just been a life-changing experience for me.

Bob Wheatley, USA Today bestselling author and a salesperson for one of my favorite companies on the planet. Welcome to the podcast. Tell everybody a little bit about who you are and tell them about Brand Builders Group, because that's going to be the focus of our conversation today.

Well, yeah, thank you again for having me. And it was also great being able to spend time with you in person. I know we've had a couple of phone calls and shot emails back and forth over the years, but to be in person with you at the Brand Builders Brand Mastery Summit here a couple of weeks ago was just awesome hearing, hearing your story and your vision for Book Thinkers and everything. So I'm just super grateful to know you, even on a personal friend level. You're just an awesome guy. And we both, we both love books, love sports, uh, love Jesus. So game on. I'm glad that we're here.

Yeah, I am as well. And, and I would like to tell everybody in the audience about the event that I attended a couple of weeks ago with you in just a minute because it was so much fun. But first, again, tell everybody a little bit about Brand Builders Group and, and how did you end up with Brand Builders Group? How have the last few years been? What's your role? That kind of thing.

Yeah. So it's really funny. I, like you, started as a Brand Builders client. So you alluded to it there. Yes, I'm on the team now today and help people to end up joining our program. I do some speaking events and things like that for BBG, but I started as a client. I was a guy who— I was a professional baseball player for a time, moved to Nashville, and then just took my first white-collar job. I was working in different sales positions and I had always been a reader. Obviously, you yourself are a reader. I believe that most writers begin that way. They begin just by reading a lot. And so for me, I ended up writing my first book really during the course of the pandemic. We just had a lot of downtime. I had been loosely writing for a couple years, but then boom, I had that first idea. I was like, okay, I see it from beginning to end. This thing is going to pop. This is going to be my first published book. Once that was done, I didn't know what happened next. I didn't know, well, do I need an agent or should I self-publish? Do I— do I— how, how do you get a book deal? I just had no idea about publishing or personal branding and all the other ancillary things that, that would be required to make that happen. So I signed up on the Brand Builders coaching membership Shoot, about 4 years ago at this point. It was just a mutual friend had listened to the Brand Builders podcast, sent me a couple episodes. I'm like, you know what? Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm ready for professional help. I need a pro. So ended up signing, signing up on the coaching. And long story short, I had such a good experience as a paying client that I asked Rory and AJ, who are now my bosses, Can I work for you? I will quit my job. I was working in a different position, different company. I was like, guys, I will quit my job tomorrow if you let me work for you, because I wanted to be around authors and speakers and business owners. And then all of a sudden I look up at this company, Brand Builders Group, like, I want to work there. These are the type of people that I want to be around. So Yeah. In a nutshell, I started as a client to get help with my own books, my own website, my own speaking. And here we are 4 years later. Now I'm a part of the team. I've officially drank the Kool-Aid and man, it is, it has just been a life-changing experience for me because even though I played professional baseball, I was not a Clayton Kershaw perennial All-Star Hall of Fame player. I was a good baseball player, but not play on TV. You have my baseball card. And so I have a, I have a small platform even today, not a massive platform. So I needed a coach to really teach me the ins and outs of a new industry. And Brand Builders has really helped me to overperform, to outkick the coverage. You mentioned that I'm a USA Today bestseller that just happened this summer. That would not have been possible if it wasn't for Rory, AJ, and their collective brains. It's been, it's been truly a life-changing experience for me.

What a beautiful testimonial for Brand Builders Group. And I love that you brought up the coaching piece because so many authors try to do it alone. So many coaches try to do it alone. So many speakers try to do it alone. And there's that old adage, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together. And it's this idea of community, you know, as a BBG client myself, And I've also had really a life-changing experience being a member. There's this saying internally, which is something like, you sign up for the content, but you stay for the community. And that's why I think I'll be a Brand Builders Group client for, I mean, decades to come. I don't see why I would ever leave because I have so many great friends like you that I get a chance to see at the in-person events and In some of the online events. I look up to Rory and AJ as role models for good ethical business people. And you also highlighted something that I just wanted to reflect on quickly, and then I want to share my experience at the event a couple of weeks ago, which is that as a professional, when you're working for another company, of course, financial currency is one consideration, but there's also cultural currency. And there are so many people that love the personal development and thought leadership, author, speaker, coach, consultant space, and there aren't a lot of ethical full-time job opportunities. And so I've joked around a couple of times that if my business Book Thinkers exploded or imploded, really, and I needed to go work somewhere, Rory and AJ would probably be the first people that I needed to call or that I would call because Brand Builders Group just aligns from a values perspective with everything that I preach, including the fact that you're always trying to overdeliver by 10 times on every dollar that you charge, which I think is just so special.

100%. I hope for your sake your business does not implode.

I don't think it will.

We're cheering you on and we want you to succeed. But yes, I mean, for, for my personal experience, that was my story, not necessarily a business that went under, but I looked at my life, I looked at Brand Builders Group, and I said, you know what, I trust these people. At that point, I was already a paying client. So I had seen, I had seen behind the curtain. I knew everything that was there. And I was like, you know what I want? How do I go deeper with these people? And for me on a personal level, I want to write more books. I want to give more speeches. I want to help impact people. My personal brand is specifically in the faith-based space. So churches and universities and things like that. And who better to learn from than people who have been doing exactly that for 20 years that I really trust? So yeah, it's been, it's awesome. It's been, uh, this is like a 5 or 10 minute commercial for, for Brand Builders, but you and I are just on the same page. It's just Rory and AJ are just such awesome people and I'm so grateful for them. Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been awesome.

Yeah, I've been, and we'll continue the commercial for a minute here because People ask me about mentorship all of the time, and I've come to define a great mentor not only as somebody who could— who has done what you want to do, which is how a lot of people think about a mentor, but I think a great mentor has also helped a lot of other people achieve what you're wanting to do, right? They have to be a great player, but they also have to be a great coach. And that's what Rory and AJ have done. I mean, BBG has close to 1,000 members, and all of these people are building bigger mission-oriented businesses. And that's why I love attending the in-person event. So a couple of weeks ago, for the audience, I had a chance to go down to Nashville and there was a 2-day brand summit and just so many amazing speakers. I mean, we had Trent Shelton there, Eric Thomas, Will Gaddara, Amy Porterfield. The list goes on and on and on. And I have already, Bob, I've already implemented a dozen different things that I, I observed from stage and I learned by watching and listening. And then also in the networking conversations at the dinners and the early morning coffee. I mean, there's just so many amazing supportive people in the community. And again, that's why I'll stay a member for a long time because you get special access to people like the names that I just mentioned, but the other members of the group, They, they have become my peers. They're fighting the same fight that I am fighting, and we get to share ideas and collaborate, which is just such a big part of it. And the audience has, has probably heard Rory Vaden on this podcast before, but just a quick backstory. I joined as a client of BBG 3 years ago because a mentor of mine, a client at the time, Brian Covey, Brian Covey, He told me, "Hey, Nick, this is this is your tribe, man. You've got to join. You've got to just check it out." So I took a call with Elle, and I think it was the easiest sales call she had ever had back in the day because within five minutes I said, "Stop trying to qualify me. Can I just sign up, please?" And she said, "Well, you know, I've got to make sure that you're a good fit." I said, "Can I just can you just send me the payment link? I really just want to sign up and join immediately." And she's like, "Relax, dude, relax." But Yeah, you just, it, it's so important, I think, in your own development. And I'm speaking to the audience right now, whether you are an aspiring author, an existing author, a coach, a consultant, a speaker, it doesn't matter. Small business owner. If you're just looking to be around other people that will lift you up, I think Brand Builders Group is a great place for that. And of course, you'll see me at a lot of those events too. All right, now we can wrap up the commercial. Uh, for Brand Builders Group. Talk to us a little bit about how Brand Builders Group approaches the book launch process, because I think that that's a very misunderstood process, uh, for a lot of people who aspire to write a book.

100%. Yeah, as of this recording, we've helped over 90 different authors become national bestsellers in the last 3 years, myself included. So 90 different authors, we've We just hit our New York Times. It was the 24th time in the last 2 years that we've hit the New York Times. And so we have this sort of this jingle to help you just contextualize. All right, how should you be thinking about a book launch as an author? So we always tell our clients, writers write, editors edit, publishers publish, distributors distribute, retailers retail, And nobody sells the book. What that means is if you look at that laundry list of different people that are going to be involved in your book launch, you will have an editor, you will have a publisher. If, if you have the distribution, you'll have distributors and retailers, but none of them have the job description that say, you know what, it is my job first and foremost to sell this book. So what that means is, let's say you're listening to this and you're a first-time author. This is just a cautionary tale, or I want you to know this before it happens. It is not your publisher's job to sell your book. And almost all publishers will have a little mini marketing package, but guys, that is not their expertise. What is a publisher? At the end of the day, the publisher is a printer. They're really good at that. They're really good at cover art. They're really good at typesetting the book. They're really good at giving you a beautiful product to hold in your hands. That is why you're paying them if you're working with a self or a hybrid publisher. What you are not paying them to do is be the sales mind behind your book launch. So that's where we as, as Brand Builders Group step in to help our clients. And it's not that we just work with authors because we also help podcasters, we help people with their TED Talks, or we help people with their coaching programs. And if all of a sudden they say, You know what? Yeah, this is the year I want to write a book. We're like, great, you are— you just volunteered yourself. You are voluntold. You are now the book salesperson. And then you kind of sit back, you're like, but I don't know how to sell books. What, what actually sells books? And that, that is where we step in to formulate a game plan. One thing that we see, Nick, a lot when it comes to book launches and just people's general understanding is Another just slogan that we, that we provide is we say that marketing is slow, but sales is fast. Marketing is slow, but sales is fast. And I'll share just a specific story. We were actually working with a client. This was about 18 months ago, maybe. And we were working with them on their book launch. And we gave them the, the rap sheet, just everything. Here's, here's everything that we need to execute on. In order for this book to be a national or a New York Times bestseller. And they did none of it. They paid all this money, they carved out time on their busy, busy calendar. We gave them everything that we needed to accomplish and they didn't do it. Why? Because they, they're approaching a million followers on social. They have thousands of people in their membership and they assumed, oh well, we don't need to pick up the phone. We don't need to pound the pavement and do quote-unquote sales things. But again, marketing is slow, sales is fast. So marketing is, oh, I'm gonna post this on social and then hope it goes viral or hope people see it. That's somewhat within your control, and that's certainly like— that's a part of a book launch for sure. But if you don't pick up the phone and call people then you are taking the sales side of things completely off the table and you really hamstring yourself in doing that. So for me personally, I'm not approaching a million followers on social, not even close. And so when I saw that book launch, and here's, here's the punchline, they didn't hit any lists. These guys with close to a million followers on social did not hit New York Times, USA Today, IndieBound, Publishers Weekly, nothing. So when I saw that, I was like, okay, I, Bob Wheatley, have a book that's coming out in 8 months. I have to be sales-focused. I have to pick up the phone. I have to set up speaking events. I have to do all of the outreach. And by having an overall holistic game plan around speaking, around my— the funnels on my website, everything was fitting together. And like, I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've probably never heard of me. That's okay. You didn't follow my baseball career. I am far from famous. And yet, because of Rory and AJ and their amazing plan, I'm now a national bestseller. My book outsold this, this other, you know, this other client of ours from a couple years ago, because I did what I was told. As long as you're coachable, going back to your coaching and mentoring thing, Don't try to reinvent the wheel. It's just if somebody has done this before and they're willing to help you, are you willing to listen? That was my experience.

That experience tells a very interesting tale. And in summary, strategy is more important than just about anything else. And Brand Builders Group has really dialed in that strategy. And has 90 success stories over the last couple of years showing people who have successfully implemented it. Now, a number of people in the audience have written books or aspire to write a book, and so this conversation so far is probably right up their alley. But talk to us a little bit more about some of the other services that BBG offers for somebody who might want to start a coaching business or somebody who does want to speak on stages and share their thought leadership. In an oral format instead of a written format.

Yeah, Rory and AJ's vision when they started the company 7, 8 years ago was we want to be a one-stop shop for the thought leader. We specifically call our clients the mission-driven messenger. If there's a mission on your heart, if there is some cause out there where, you know what, your heart just breaks for this type of person, where, you know, I am just— I am born to serve this community. That's much more than just a book conversation. Now, you might publish a book, you might publish 10 books, and that's awesome. But there's probably going to be other things involved in that. It's maybe you start a podcast, maybe you do speak publicly, maybe you have a membership or a coaching program, maybe you do super fun retreats. Nick, I know that you're— you have a live event. this fall. Maybe you want to do that. There's a lot of different ways to serve people. And at BBG, we want to be that macro full suite conversation. So we as a company, we actually just came out with a book this summer. It's called Wealthy and Well-Known. It was a New York Times bestseller. It's more of the holistic conversation. It's not book focused, it's more brand focused. And let's say somebody runs into me on the street, says, Bob, you're a published author. How do I, how do I do that? The first thing that I would say, and the first thing that we would say as a company, is you need to know your brand. You need to know who you are, who you serve, what problem you solve for the world, how are you going to monetize this. If you truly want to turn it into a business, then you need to know all those things. You need to get very specific and say, all right, how do I cut through the noise? It is, I am super clear on what I do. I am super clear on the problem out there in the world that I'm uniquely positioned to solve. I'm also crystal clear how money hits my bank account. And it's not that you're money-driven, but the more, the more money you have, the more people you can serve. It's kind of just like a health meter of your business. If you're bleeding money all the time, then you're going to be dependent on the day job, donations, dumb luck, whatever it might be. You need to know even before you write your book the context. What is your brand? Who are you serving? So yeah, that'd be the first thing that I would say when, when somebody starts. And that's, that's one of the reasons why I started up with Rory and AJ, because I needed help with that. I had a passion for reading and writing and influence, but I didn't know how to turn it into a business. And so that's where the conversation started.

I happen to love Wealthy and Well-Known by Rory and AJ Vaden, and I think it's a brilliant book. And in fact, we are giving it away for free, aren't we, Bob? So if anybody in the audience would like to listen to the audiobook, all you have to do is click the show notes below. You'll see the link, download the audiobook, and you'll get a chance to listen to it for for free. And I think it's an incredibly valuable book. I mean, they just hit New York Times with it, so obviously a lot of people found it very valuable. But you're totally right. Who are you? What do you stand for? How do you communicate that to the world? How do you monetize it? All of those questions are answered inside of that book, and they did such a great job crafting it.

It truly is remarkable. We, we just had an internal meeting yesterday as a company talking about the book and our own book launch and, you know, everything within it. Nick, we literally have clients, no joke, that'll pay us tens of thousands of dollars to do this for them, to figure out the content within this book. And we're— I mean, we're selling it for $20, but we're giving it away in the audiobook version. We're just kind of chuckling as a company internally, like, we, we are giving away— we're giving away the goods. I mean, there— this is 200, 250 pages of— this is our best stuff. And because we believe— we always tell our clients, save the best for first. It's not save the best for last, save the best for first. So we believe so strongly that this book is just going to knock your socks off. And if you're really looking for help, you know who to call. So yeah, please, if you're listening to this and you're like, you know what, I could use a coach, or I could use some help with branding, I'm kind of struggling with clarity, Just download the book. It's free. Free is in the budget. Just see if it helps you. And yeah, we're just, we're so happy to, we just want to lead with value. We want to give you our best stuff first. And then if we win your trust, hey, let's have a further conversation. But I'm glad that you enjoyed it. It sounds like you read through it and got some stuff as well. That's awesome.

I did. And Book Thinkers, you know, as an agency, we were able to film some short-form video content for Rory and AJ and book AJ on a bunch of podcasts. We managed her social media for a little while. And so, we got to see what type of impact the book was having on their communities, which, you know, just such amazing feedback as well. And Bob, as a former podcast guest on this show, Alex Hormozi always says the business model of giving your content away for free and then selling the implementation of that material to those that need help and they'd like to accelerate the process a little bit is such a great business model. And that's, that's a representation of what Rory and AJ have done with the book. I mean, giving it away for free, guys, listen, guys and gals in the audience, listen, I have spent tens of thousands of dollars myself on Brand Builders Group and their services, and I love every single dollar I've spent. But that book, Wealthy and Well-Known, if I wanted to self-implement, could replace the entire budget, right? So yeah, absolutely download the book. get a free copy. But then what if somebody just wants to go ahead and book a call directly with you? Where do they go?

Yeah. So, well, let's throw that in the show notes as well, just so it's easy for anybody. But it's just going to be freebrandcall.com/bookthinkers. It's just your specific link. So, we know that people were sent to us from you. And yeah, if you are— if you're in more of a do-it-yourself mode, that's why we're giving you the book. It's everything is there. You're going to have 15, 16 hours of personal branding awesomeness. That's probably a good place to start. If like Nick or like me 4 years ago, you say, you know what, I am ready for a coach. Tiger Woods has a swing coach. Michael Jordan had a weightlifting coach, a basketball coach. I'm ready to take things to the next level. Then yeah, let's book a call and you might end up speaking with me or somebody else on our team, but we promise to take care of you and Yeah, let's do this thing.

Yeah, pay for proximity. It's one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned. Get in front of people who have done what you want to do and have helped other people get there. That's Rory and AJ, and the entire community of people is my support system. As Jim Rohn says, or famously said, you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with. And if you show up to an in-person BBG Accelerator event or one of the speaking events, You'll be surrounded by people who will help you become the boldest version of yourself. Again, it's why I love attending those events. Now, I want to— Bob, before we wrap up today, I want to give you a quick opportunity to talk a little bit about the book that did just hit USA Today bestseller. Tell us about your book.

Yeah. So my personal book, not Wealthy and Well-Known, but on a personal level, came out with a book this summer. It's called Single Minded. And as I alluded to earlier on the show, my personal brand is in the faith-based space. So I speak a lot at Christian schools and churches. And this book, Single Minded, is a 30-day challenge for unmarried Christians. And so I myself, I'm in my early mid-30s, unmarried. I've always wanted to be a husband. I've always wanted to be a father. And for some reason, it just hasn't been written into my life. And on a human level, When you're in your early 30s, unmarried, you might start to feel behind. I mean, my parents got married at like 27, 28. So at least on that timeline, I'm five years behind that, and I'm even further behind my own expectations. So I wanted to write this book as an encouragement to somebody who maybe you're listening to this and you are single. You you've always wanted to be married, but for some reason it just hasn't happened. There are so many advantages to a season of singleness. The subtitle. Is Finding Purpose and Strength in Your Season of Singleness. And not to get too faith-based or biblical, but the book is essentially based on the Apostle Paul's writing in 1 Corinthians 7. For those who don't know the Apostle Paul, he's sort of a Christian superhero, wrote basically, you know, most of the New Testament, and he, he died a single man. In that book of 1 Corinthians chapter 7, he's— this is my paraphrase, but he basically says, hey, You guys who are single, I wish you would remain single. I wish you could remain single because it is such a gift on a spiritual level because you are completely unencumbered. You have, as he says, wholehearted devotion to the Lord. So that title, single-minded, is kind of a double entendre in that, oh, you're a single person, obviously you have a single mind, but also just, you have so much space, you have so much bandwidth, you have the ability to be single-minded, to be wholeheartedly focused on God, on your spiritual walk, on your faith walk. So yeah, it's, it's been a really interesting journey for me. Because, I mean, it says in the Bible, hope deferred makes the heart sick. And so a desire fulfilled is a tree of life. That's sort of the second clause of that proverb. But If you're in that season where you're still hoping and that hope feels deferred, I have felt heartsick. If you're listening to this and you feel you're in that waiting season, you know exactly what that feels like. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. And that might not be a marriage thing. That might be you're waiting for a child. It might be you're waiting for— you're waiting for the prodigal son to come back. It might be— help with a health issue. It'd be a bunch of different things. But the single community, not only in the church, also just in America, in this country, is so rapidly growing. And I don't really see many male voices speaking into that. So here I was stuck in this season. And I was like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna make the most of this while I can. I'm gonna make lemonade out of this season. Let's write a book. And so got super focused. 4 months later, I had a 30-day challenge, and it's been, it's been overwhelming, the response to the book. I'm also giving that away for free. So I know we hadn't planned on that before we sat down to record. I'll throw that in the, in the show notes as well. If you want to give that away, Nick, that's great. If not, no worries. But yeah, this is, this is more of a ministry for me than it is my business. My full-time, like, my daily work is with Brand Builders Group, helping authors, speakers, podcasters to impact their respective worlds. On the side, this is my ministry. This is what gets me out of bed in the morning. I want to serve God and serve people as best I can. And right now it looks like serving the singles community.

I love how clear and articulate you are around who you serve and why you serve them. And I think it's a great representation of what Rory and AJ always say, which is that you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. And you've come to terms with the benefits of being single. And I'm sure had you realized some of these things a few years ago, it would have saved you a little bit of that heartbreak. So, or that ache for your life to be a little different than it was. So thank you for sharing, Bob. As we wrap up, tying it back to BBG, tell us a little bit about how you sold the book, specifically the book in lieu of fee or books in lieu of fee strategy that BBG teaches. This is just one of many strategies that you can learn as an aspiring author or existing author to sell more books. But you told me a couple of weeks ago in person what you did, and I thought it was genius.

Yep, 100%. So within— we call it the Bestseller Launch Plan. It's one of the parts of our curriculum. So let's say somebody wants to release a book, they want to make a serious run at a bestseller list, they would then enter their bestseller launch plan season. So there's 7 different buckets, 7 different ways to sell a lot of books. We obviously don't have time to dive into all of them, so I'll just share the first one. You alluded to it, it's BILF, book in lieu of fee. This is just helping you to get creative as the— we said it, one of the first things on this show, you are the book salesperson. You have, you have volunteered. So when it comes to BILF, book and lieu of fee, the first question to ask is, are there any existing fees in my business? Do you sell a coaching program for $1,000 a month? Do you sell a $3,000 course, one and done? Do you have a speaking fee for $5,000, $10,000, $20,000? What are the fees in your business? So when it comes to book in lieu of fee, the question that you might want to ask yourself is, okay, instead of looking— let's say it's a speech— instead of looking at that speech as $5,000, what if I looked at it as books sold? So easy math. Let's say you're selling the book for— this is off the top of my head— let's say you're selling it— let's do— let's make it even easier. You have a $10,000 keynote fee, right? So $10,000 keynote. And let's say you're selling books for $20. So you could either have those $10,000 from your keynote hit your bank account, that's a good day, or maybe you're doing half of that is in dollars, half of that is in books. This is, you know, instead of the 10 grand hitting your bank, it might be, you know, you just sold 500 books. At $20 a pop. So when it comes to book in lieu of fee, we have found that that is one of the best ways to move a lot of books because you get such big commitments in one yes. If you're already a $10,000 keynote speaker, and you might be if you're, if you're listening to this, by getting one yes from an event planner, you potentially just sold 500 books. You could either go that route or you could try to get 500 individual humans to buy one book on Amazon. What's easier? Much easier to get one yes from, from an event planner. So in my world, you, you were talking about that earlier, given that I'm in the faith-based space, a lot of these churches and a lot of these Christian schools don't have huge budgets. I'm not at a $10,000 keynote fee when I go to a Christian university. They're just not there. So what I did is sort of a two-pronged approach. Again, going for BILFs, going for book in lieu of fee. My first step in my own personal book launch was to find the audience. I need to find the church, the school, the university, the small group. And then the second thing, once I got the commitment, like for example, I'm speaking at a Christian university in Southern California in November, It's called Biola. I'm speaking to their athletics department. So it's like 250 student athletes, and I'm going to lead the chapel service for them on one of their chapel nights. And so you have 250 people in the room. So when I see that, I'm like, okay, I want to get a book in 250 college-age students' hands. I mean, the odds are there's going to be 249 of them that are single, maybe one that's married. So like, this is my target demo for sure. But then this university probably does not have the budget to purchase 250 books. That might be $5,000, $6,000. So what I did is I spoke to the university, and, you know, different places might have an honorarium, a per diem, like there might be some money that's being exchanged. But I then, with the second prong of the approach, I started fundraising. So I would reach out to friends, family, different folks where I already had warm relationships and asked, hey, I'm speaking at this school, I'm speaking at this church, and this is their need. I'm doing sort of a crowdfunding idea. Are you willing to donate some books? No is a fine answer. I won't be offended by that, but it would mean so much to them. It means so much to me. if you're willing to purchase some books for these students. And Nick, I was, I was blown away at how receptive people were to that. Now, with my first book, I took a similar approach as far as like putting on the sales hat, calling people, telling them about the book. And some people made purchases for themselves and their families. But like, as far as the sales volume, it was not even close to this second book. And I truly think the charitable aspect of it, because again, if you're like— I'm a Christian, obviously, and a lot of, a lot of Christians, as they're churchgoers, they're probably giving to their church already. And so in having an honest conversation with them, they're like, all right, well, I'll just reallocate a fraction of my giving budget to these books for these students on this day. And I mean, I raised tens of thousands of dollars doing that, and it was just such an awesome response. So everybody wins. All of these students are going to have books, the donors are there, they believe in the cause, and then I on a personal level had enough of a sales volume to become a national bestseller. With, with my personal platform size, I could not rely on individual Amazon orders. It just wasn't going to happen. But by having the right strategy, by having Rory and AJ open my eyes to, hey, have you thought about book in lieu of fee? How are you leveraging your speaking opportunities to actually sell this book? Game changer.

That is an understatement. Game changer. What, what percentage of your book sales for this Single Minded Launch were Book in lieu of fee bulk order compared to single unit order?

Yeah, hard to say on the single unit orders just because Amazon is— that's primarily where you wanna send somebody if they order the single units. Amazon is just gonna be the best spot. If somebody is ordering in bulk, like let's say this university that ordered 250, and this is like inside baseball book launches, You probably don't want them to order 250 books on Amazon.

No, you do not.

Why? Because, and this is just something that we've learned over time, and this sounds crazy, but it's true. One Amazon order of 250 books is counted as one book when it comes to these bestseller lists. Crazy. Like there's no way for them to know that, all right, this is actually 250 books moved. It's like, no, it was one order, one Amazon order, one book. So imagine if you have— let's say you have— you sell 10,000 books, but if it's all on one order, you're probably going to miss a list because of the wrong strategy. You're sending people to the wrong place, you're fulfilling orders, you know, not properly. So for me, it was a blend. In a perfect world, you do want to have individual orders and bulk orders and bill orders and all that stuff. Luckily for me, our team at Brand Builders Group, we do this completely free for any of our authors. So I was part of our quote-unquote book fulfillment team, and they're just doing all that stuff for me. So I don't, off the top of my head, know the exact numbers because I, I didn't care to know. It's like, all right, great, these guys are just doing it. It's my job to be on stage and get the word out. So yeah, I don't have an exact number for you, but let's say it was 50/50, like 50 bulk and then 50% individual. You kind of want to have that blend.

Great.

Yeah.

Well, I think, I think today's conversation, while it was in some ways a commercial for Brand Builders Group, I'm okay with that because I'm such a fan of BBG and everything that you and your team stand for, Bob. And I was happy that you had a chance to talk a little bit about Single Minded as well. I'm sure there's some people in the audience that would want that book for free. So we'll definitely put that in the show notes as a reminder to the audience. If you would like to get a copy of Wealthy and Well-Known for free or schedule time with Brand Builders Group for a free strategy call, those links are also in the show notes. Well, Bob, wonderful conversation today. I admire how articulate you are. I think you're a wonderful presenter and salesperson. I'm glad to call you a friend now. And I look forward to our continued friendship.

Likewise, man. Thank you so much for having me. Wishing you all the best. And yeah, let's talk again soon.