The ART of Likability in Sales with Brett Knopf

I would say arguably it's the most important skill any of us can learn if we want to have any sort of control and freedom in our—

Brett, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. How are you feeling today?

Feeling great. Thank you so much for having me today.

Yeah, I'm excited for the Book Thinkers family to learn a little bit more about your book. For those that are not familiar with you, your book, your business, could you introduce yourself to everybody?

Sure. By all means. So my name is Brett Knopf. My business is Knopf Knows Solutions. I purposely chose solutions to be part of my company title because that's my focus, you know, and, and the focus of the book as well is really to help block out the noise and the distractions and really just key in on fundamentals and things that are going to move us forward as linearly, as directly, as efficiently, as effectively as possible towards whatever it is that we are trying to accomplish. So I do that through coaching, consulting, you know, the book, digital education courses, speaking workshop stages. You know, the dissemination method varies, but Central thesis remains the same. Let's figure out what you want to do and how to use your time wisely to drive directly towards it.

Well, let me, let me kick off with the first non-introductory question here. So Everyday People, Extraordinary Sales Success. I know when I was in college getting ready to graduate, deciding what career path to go down, I wanted to be a salesperson. But I think that especially for me at the time before getting into the personal development world, there's a lot of criticism on that word sales. You think of snake oil salesperson, aggressive car salesperson. So why do you think sales is an important skill set to learn more about, to hone in on, and to control in our lives?

For the reasons you just mentioned, for sure. Uh, you know, myself included, had very negative association with sales. As a result, I was terrible when I first got rolling in my, in, uh, my, my first formalized sales job. Um, you know, it's important to, to deconstruct that and to help people focus on creating wins all around in their sales process. I mean, everything is a sale— interpersonal relationships, being a father, being a husband, a wife, a friend. It's, it's present everywhere. So the more that you know how to do it with integrity and with the intention of helping the end user, the better everyone is going to be. And just from a career perspective, you know, just being able to do the things in your life that are important to you and to, and to help other people ideally. is, is part of the equation in, in things that are important to you, you need to make money to do so. The best way to make money uncapped, untethered is to sell. The best way to not be beholden to toxic work environment, leadership teams that don't care about you on a personal level is to be able to sell. So I would say arguably it's the most important skill any of us can learn if we want to have any sort of control and freedom in our lives.

What was that first formal sales job that you had?

Without, you know, utilizing names here out of respect, I was selling advertising space in the programs and yearbooks that you see at ballgames, college campuses, pro sports and whatnot. I focused more on the collegiate side of things, but we were selling to contractors that did the work on the stadiums and, you know, just, you know, anywhere on campus, telling them that when they took out advertising space in these programs, all the administrators, all the decision makers were going to see it and look upon it favorably. So for the low, low cost of, you know, $9,500 for a full-page ad, you'd be in good graces. And, you know, in my 300, 400 calls a day, Roughly 300 to 400 of them would say, guy, construction's a bid-based business. They're gonna go with the best bid. Click. So I was selling something that really did not benefit the end user and I felt terribly about it. And once again, as a result, I was not particularly good at it, but I learned a ton that carried me moving forward in My sales leadership career thereafter.

I've got 2 questions to follow up with that. Why did you go into sales? And then since you say you were bad at it, why did you stay in sales?

Great questions. So I read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki about 20 years ago. And one of the things that stood out to me was essentially what I just parroted a few minutes ago is Sales is a skill that people are scared of. They don't want to push people. They don't— any number of reasons. You gotta run full steam towards that if you're going to have as much success as you're capable of. And success can be defined differently by different people. I define it as, you know, having that freedom to control my time and freedom to invest in things that are valuable to other people, you know, nonprofits and charity and things along those lines. You know, that's something that's a driver for me. So in any event, I was scared of it. I was uncomfortable with it. I respected this person's words and, you know, everything else in that book. So that was the catalyst for me to get a formalized sales role. So that was one. Number 2, as I continued to read, you know, while I was there towards the tail end of this harrowing experience, I read the book Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers. So while I stunk at it, I was scared of it as I continued to go through it. Now I'm I'm in it, let alone the conceptual fear that I had leading into this, all of which was being actualized by my experience. I recognize that there's learning lessons to be drawn from this. There's plenty of good and applicable things that I can take from this and carry forward. So really what I need to do is find something that I care about on a personal level that undeniably benefits the end user. And I can take these failures and repurpose them into success for myself and other individuals that I would eventually be leading in this capacity. So I was able to really reframe it and repurpose it towards something very constructive and productive. And I'm grateful and happy to report that, you know, 15 years ago when this was transitioning into the next stages of my career, it went well beyond what I could have ideally envisioned for myself in continuing on the path.

That's amazing. I have like a bunch of follow-ups for that, but I'm curious as to, you know, we love books here at BookThinkers, obviously, and we do a lot of reading and we've all had different relationships with books and our reading journeys have all been very different. So I'm curious as to what yours is like. Did you start reading at a very young age? Like, how, how did that begin for you? Why did you read books? Was there somebody in your life that showed you that they were important? Like, what was your reading journey that got you started? Because you also mentioned a lot of books, and I've listened to a bunch of other podcasts that you've been on, and, um, you mentioned a lot of books, and a lot of them which are some of my top favorite ones. So I'm just curious, like, how did that, how did that begin and start for you?

That's cool. And I, I'd love to hear more about that at, at some point. I, I always enjoy talking about the things, books or otherwise, that have made an impact in people's lives. But in, in this particular case, my aunt was a huge reader. She was a, a schoolteacher in the public system in Manhattan for 30 years. And as an aside, one of the most interesting people in my life, you know, she's lived in Manhattan for almost 40 years and, you know, can be walking along and, you know, tell you about the history of this leaf on this tree on 14th and 10th. I love that. But, you know, as an educator, you know, she, her house, her apartment rather, was and continues to be just jam-packed full of books. So whereas most of my book reading career in adulthood has been nonfiction, I started with fiction and my first book that I recall reading, my first real book was Stephen King's It when I was 11 years old. So this 1,000-page horror story, which through cognitive behavioral therapy, I've been able to draw some throughputs to certain things that may have stemmed from that. I love that. But I loved it. I just, I I've always had a really active imagination, and, you know, just being able to, to read this book and, and, and visualize this, this craziness that, you know, he's a genius, obviously, you know, one of the most celebrated authors in the fiction realm anyhow of all time, really got me started. And it's cool because I was 11 years old. I'm gonna be 42 in July. 30 years after I read that and said, I want to write a book, and with many fits and starts in between, to have this come to fruition and actualize it was a really cool, you know, I guess, completion of the cycle for me, or, you know, maybe start of a new cycle. But my soon-to-be 5-year-old also is loving books. I created a side bookshelf over here for him and his books. So when he saw my picture on the back of my book and just squealed with delight, like, what? You're on the book! This is your book! Was one of the coolest moments of my entire life.

Oh, I'm sure. I have 3 kids of my own, and I'm also getting them into reading too. I encourage them to read things that are interesting to them at this point. I mean, I have a 6, 5, and 2-year-old, so they're still very young. But I can imagine how cool that was to have your kid like sit there and see your book with your picture. Man, that's amazing. Are you still a big nonfiction reader or do you, I mean, a fiction reader or do you tend to be more of a nonfiction now?

I haven't read a fiction book in 2 decades at this point. Once I moved Out of college and into the professional world, it's mostly been about skill acquisition and studying success. You know, that's my big, you know, secret, so to speak, is who's doing the things that are of interest to me at the highest levels. And let me figure out what habits they have. Let me figure out what their mindset is and start applying that into my life. So I've read a lot of autobiographies. You know, I just, that's my bread and butter as far as the things that I love to read. And they've been hugely impactful for myself. But in my work, I'm able to then refer other people to these things because I hear a problem, or I hear, you know, this is something that I'm interested in, and I can just boom, boom, boom, directly refer you to a resource that is going to ideally shortcut the path to whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.

I know Nick wants to ask a bunch of questions that have to do with your book, and we're gonna get there. Just really quick though, you mentioned You've studied successful people. I'm wondering if you have any, I don't know, any like common threads that you've seen amongst successful people that you've used in your life that have worked really well.

Big time. So I created, and when I say created, I borrowed from those folks that I saw the commonalities amongst the people that I respected and, you know, trying to model my game after. So I created this 6x6, which is my non-negotiable daily habits. And the 6x6 is gratitude. Now I, I wake up and I go to sleep saying thank you. You know, just putting that out there directly into meditation. Meditation was one of those ones that, speaking of fits and starts, it continues to be extraordinarily challenging. I understand why it's designated as a practice. But, you know, I've been going strong for a year and a half every day consistently now with that exercise movement, you know, just train, training your body to be strong and adaptable and, and flexible. Then there's cold showers, cold exposure. That's been a new one over the last 2 and a half months. You know, these guys, you know, your Tony Robbins, your Joe Rogans, these guys are like, put your body and your mind under stress early and often, and it's gonna make the external stressors that much more easy to navigate. You know, they call it create your own struggle. So we've got that in the mix. Then there's education. I wanna walk out of every single day with some valuable learning. lesson, something to sharpen the axe from a skill perspective or a mindset perspective. And journaling. Journaling has been the biggest game changer out of all of it because it takes me out of, off of autopilot. I'm writing down every single day my productive actions for the day. What went well? What can I do differently tomorrow or the next time a similar action arises? What was my biggest lesson of the day? What was my biggest win of the day? What's my biggest focus for tomorrow? And I give myself a productivity score for the day. So everything is measurable. It's, it's just there for me to see. I did, I didn't, and course correcting as close to real time as possible. So all of those things were just, you know, 80% of the people that are in these positions meditate, 90% journal, blah, blah, blah. So eventually I was able to adapt them and create my own strong habits and, and foundations and the anchor for what I consider to be success and, and happiness in, in my life and business.

It sounds like you've read through Tools of Titans over your left shoulder.

Correcto mundo. That was that 80% meditation one. That was exactly where that came from.

Yeah. When I heard you say it, I thought, oh, that sounds like Tools of Titans. And then I looked over your shoulder. I saw Tools of Titans, Tribe of Mentors. I see Life Force because you just referenced the cold Exposure with Tony Robbins. So, some fantastic books. Well, we're all cut from the same cloth, obviously. We're preaching to the choir in this conversation, but not everybody listening goes through those 6 things on a daily basis. So, if you could only choose 2 of them to keep, which 2 do you think have the biggest impact on how you feel that day and which 2 have the longest or the best long-term benefits?

That's a great question. Exercise has to be number one. If your if your health isn't there, then really none of the other stuff matters. Yeah. Looking good, man.

The second I had a good leg day today.

Yeah, it's showing in your biceps.

I was gonna do the flex too because I've I've been pretty proud of my biceps lately.

Man, that's clear. You guys. Fundamentally, inarguably beneficial to you.

Sure.

The second one, damn, that's a tough one. I believe it would have to be education, regrettably. I love journaling. Journaling's been the biggest game changer for me, but I think training your brain and training your body are the things that are gonna have the most long-lasting, consistent, impactful returns on, on your time investment ultimately. So those would, those would be the 2. And I hate saying it because I really love all of them.

Yeah, well, I love all of them too, and I practice everything that you practice with the exception of consistent journaling. I've gone through spurts where I've journaled for 100 days at a time or, you know, maybe a couple of times a week for a year, but it's been a little while for me. So same with meditation. I still meditate pretty frequently, but they're like short bursts instead of longer meditations for me right now. I know you said you, you do it every single day and you have for a year and a half. So what's your meditation practice look like right now?

Yeah, so it's— I wake up, you know, between 5 and 5:30, and then I immediately open my eyes, say thank you. And then I go into 15 minutes of guided meditation. I like using the, the Calm app personally. That's, that's worked better than, you know, anything I've done previously. And then it's 15 minutes of directed meditation where I'm visualizing my goals. You know, I've got a, a pretty extensive set of goals. I've recorded myself saying it. So I go 15 minutes of Without the recording of it. And then another, because the recording is about 5 and a half minutes, and then another 2 runs through that. So all told, it's about, you know, 35 to 40 minutes. And then I go into the cold shower and then into exercise. So that's my morning routine that has been pretty well established now.

Yeah. Well, we'd get along well socially. Those are all the same things that I'm doing on a pretty consistent basis. And you mentioned Rogan as well. I've been consuming a lot of his content over the last 2 years or so, and he just had Andrew Huberman on the other day and they talked about a lot of these subjects. So that was a great conversation. To kind of steer back into the direction of sales because I think a lot of people listening today are interested in learning some applicable Sales Secrets. You outline 25 in your book. And so what I'd like to do is preview a couple of these, have you talk about each one for a few minutes. Maybe Luke will have some comments, I'll have some comments. This will act as a good introduction to the book. So we'll just kick off with secret number 1, people buy from people they like. What do you mean by that?

So I already mentioned I'm trying to cut out distraction and be as direct as possible. So something like being likable, you're not thinking about that necessarily. You're not thinking about that as a salesperson. So I want people to recognize that all things being equal, if you've got the same exact product or service, people are going to buy from the more likable person. I don't like speaking in absolutes, but as close to 100% of the time, as, as possible. You know, you want to be around people that are likable. You want to be around people that make you feel good about yourself. So, you know, plenty of the other points in the, the book are geared towards how do you, how do you make people feel valued, understood, listened to, respected? And by being likable, In, in terms of treating everyone you come in contact with as the most important person in the world, that to me is a great starting point. If you're just looking people in the eye and you are just interested in who they are, what they're doing, what are you trying to accomplish? What, why are you buying this? What, what, what is this going to do for you? You know, directly, indirectly, people are gonna pick up on that. They're gonna like you and they're gonna be infinitely more likely to want to do business with you directly, but also refer other people to you. Yeah.

And that's one of your other sales secrets, which maybe we'll dive into a little bit later. But I like that mantra that you just mentioned. You highlighted in the book, I highlighted it as well, to treat every single person as if they're the most important person in the world. And so It's interesting how people buy from people they like. So you want to be likable, but the best way to be likable has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the other person. So it's kind of funny to think about it that way, but it makes complete sense that by being curious and interested, you'll then be interesting and likable. Correct. That's a cool hack.

What's the difference between trying to be likable and people pleasing?

Likability is much more so in the realm of what Nick just said is you're just, you're listening, you're asking questions, you're like, you wanna know, you know, I've said this before, but I literally look at every single person I've ever encountered as an unofficial mentor because I've learned something of value just from asking questions and Listening to them. So am I doing it with the intention of trying to please them? Or maybe, maybe, maybe not. It's, it's more so because I gain value while also giving value in the form of that respect and, and appreciation and active listening. So it's, it's that wins all around again.

Yeah, I love that. I, I know I, I asked that because I'm someone who struggles with people pleasing very much, and to the extent that it's like I could cross my own boundaries before and everything else. So it's like just trying to, to find that, find that dichotomy or balance. And I think a lot of times, like, we, we feel like it needs to be this black and white thing, like you can't, you can't do this, you have to do this instead. And really, most things I feel like dwell in the air, that gray area in between. So I really appreciate that answer and it makes me feel better about being a likable person in general because people give me that feedback a lot. So I appreciate that. What are some things that people can do, like if they're not a likable person, what are some general things that they can do on a daily basis to help them improve their likability?

Start small, make eye contact and smile at people. Be polite, say please, say thank you. It's nothing earth-shattering here, you know, go out, go to, you know, cashier and strike, you know, I like that shirt, I like your shoes, just offer a genuine compliment to someone, just be kind and courteous to other human beings. You know, we're talking about sales, like sales just is a natural byproduct of these things. It doesn't have to be anything much more than that in a lot of cases, in my humble opinion. As long as what you are selling directly addresses the problem or the concern of the end user, you're good to go if you're just getting out there and having a fun and genuine and authentic conversation with another human being.

Yeah, Brett, what you just said reminds me, we had somebody in here filming content the other day, an author, and he said over his career, he's a little bit older now, he's probably interviewed 10,000 people. And he said, he kind of jokingly said this, but he, and by the way, interviewing is selling yourself. It's a form of selling under the microscope, mind you. But he said, you want to differentiate yourself? Show up early, shake hands, make eye contact. That's it. Like, that's how you differentiate yourself because most people just aren't courteous. They're not selling themselves well. And if you live in a place sometimes like New York City where the number of people is so massive that other people are seen as almost like a hindrance or a problem, right? That's a little bit of Rogan right there. He says when you live in such a populated area and other people become an inconvenience, you don't treat each other as well. You're not selling yourself well if you're not showing up early, shaking hands, making eye contact, smiling, saying please and thank you. So that's kind of where it starts, right?

100%. It's why not? It's like, just why not treat everyone you come in contact with as the most important person in the world? Where's the downside to that? There's so much upside. I think Largely inarguably. So just do it and you're gonna, you're gonna live a happier, more successful life, you know, regardless of anything sales driven. Yeah.

Well, I'll, I'll tell a quick story when I, so my first official sales job was with this company, Collegiate Entrepreneurs that taught high school, oops, high school that taught college students how to run their own house painting businesses. Now, when I was signing up for this, I didn't realize I'd have to do my own door-to-door selling. And so, we start learning how to sell. We learn how to sell. At the time, I had a lot of social anxiety. I couldn't string together a sentence without 15 ums and ahs and buts, these verbal pauses. So, we go out on the first day. I knock on the first door and my sales mentor is shadowing me and I forgot my entire script. I just knocked on the door. The woman answered. I said, would you like an estimate? And she's like, who are you and for what? And I felt so embarrassed, but I can continued through the rest of that day receiving the feedback that my sales mentor was giving me, and I ended up booking 4 estimates, 4 appointments for me to go back and give a formal estimate. And I've come so far since those early days, but I just wanted to highlight to anybody listening today that you can be the world's worst salesperson like I was and then improve your communication slowly over time. By reading books like yours, implementing what you learn, and eventually after getting all of this feedback, you can be better. You can be a better communicator. So I wanted to tie that story in real quick, help some people see you can go from where I was to where I am now. Let's jump into the next one. This one's a little bit more technical. I'm curious if you're consulting for a small business and they don't have a lead tracking system in place, They don't have any type of formal CRM. What do you recommend they do?

You can start small with things. A simple Excel spreadsheet can do wonders for, for your sales success, for you, uh, your, your team members, your organization. It's, you know, name, contact information, date last contacted, number of contacts, notes. Follow-up date schedule. It doesn't have to be anything astronomical. Obviously, it depends on the intricacies of your business, the funding of your business, what direction you want to go. But in the absence of tracking all of your interactions from inception point all the way through to people leaving, your service or, or just stopping using your product or whatever the case may be, and the follow-up that goes into it, you are leaving opportunities on the table left and right. There's no way. It's similar to what I'm talking about with journaling. The reason I've been able to become much more efficient and effective in my business, in life, is because I'm taking inventory. I'm tracking everything every day. So I've got my calendar in front of me and nothing's slipping through the cracks because I'm aware of it and operating with intention. And I think that with a CRM system for people, you're operating intentionally, you're tracking things, which makes it measurable so you can see what's working, what's not working, and make whatever adjustments you see fit.

Yeah, I think it's extremely important. I think, you know, after reading a bunch of books on selling, I think the number one thing people probably Are the number one area for improvement is follow-up across the board. Everybody stinks at follow-up. And if you don't have a system in place, like you say in the book, to manage your follow-up, that's probably the easiest thing to clean up.

Very, very much so. Because here's the thing, like ideally everyone is going to purchase from you right on the spot. And that's another, you know, chapter in there is expect successful outcomes. Go in expecting it to go extremely well and benefit all parties involved. But realistically, it's not always going to be a conversation to close to client. So you want to be following up. And here's the thing, from a mindset standpoint, people are afraid to follow up because they don't want to bother. They don't want to push. Make sure whatever you are selling is something that actually benefits the end user so you feel great about it. You're not pushing, you're not harassing. You know, if people are going to take it as such, they likely weren't going to be customers anyway. Make sure that you're following up until you get a yes or until you get a no. Other than that, They're in play at any given point because circumstances are always changing. That person that, you know, wasn't ready to buy at that point, you follow up 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 times. You're just checking in on them.

How's—

how was your birthday? Have you solved what you were looking to solve for?

Cool.

I'm still here. I'm staying top of mind. Let me know if you need anything. If I can help you in any other capacity, I'm happy to. And when those circumstances inevitably change, you're the person they're gonna invest in working with.

Yeah, 10,000%. And a quick note on the sales secret 11, expect successful outcomes. I think that's a good lesson for every area of life. Quick funny story. Yesterday was Easter. And so sitting around the table, my mom, now that my brothers and I were all older and our significant others are there, she does scratch tickets like we do like a little Quiz game, you get some scratch tickets. And going into it, everybody is like, I never win these things. I never win these things. And I said, I always win these things. I'm expecting a successful outcome. And I won $50 on a $10 card, but I knew that I was going to win. I just expected it. It becomes a part of the process. I know I'm going to win and I'll state it to the world. So, if you state it to the world, it'll conspire to assist you, right?

No, I 100% agree. One of, one of the things that I journal, I, I failed to mention this earlier, but I, you know, have affirmations and, and statements like treat everyone as the most important person in the world. One of the things that I write down every day, or 2 things that are in line with this, are your successes for certain and what can go right. So not what can go wrong. I'm always looking at things. What can go right? and expecting it to go right, because inevitably things aren't going to go right, and you're gonna have to adjust at that point. So why double dip on these negative hypotheticals that almost never come to fruition the way we play them out in our head? Instead, expect it to go well, mentally rehearse it going well, and if it doesn't, then you'll adjust and, and make the course corrections in real time, or Reflect in the aftermath.

For someone struggling with negative thought loops and just the general, just the general negative, I mean, do you have any tips around getting out of that, getting your mind out of the negative hole?

Yeah, definitely. Well, 2 things. Number one is repetitiously beat positive reinforcing messaging into your head. You know, while I'm exercising, I'm listening to YouTube videos on discipline and cultivating a winning mindset and sales and leadership and some of that stuff as well. So I'm just harassing myself with positivity on a daily basis. I don't watch the news. It's been 2 and a half years since I do that. I'm putting as much constructive and positive thinking into my head, both in terms of how to do those things, but also the things themselves. Secondly, it's gonna come as no surprise. Write it down. Just write down what's, what's going on in your head. Get it out of there because it's rattling around with no place to go. So when you can brain dump and get these things out of your head, it's fantastic. And to take it a step further, you know, one of the, the best investments I've made is this program, Thinking Into Results. through the Proctor Gallagher Institute. And they talked about take your self-limiting beliefs or that negative self-talk, write it down and write the exact opposite positive thought to cancel it out. They even had us write down all the negatives on one page and light it on fire. Just that, I guess, symbolism associated with it. makes a difference. So again, I just, I'm trying my best to find these things that successful people are doing and just put it into practice repetitiously.

Do you consider yourself a positive person generally?

Yeah, very much. And I have been and I'll, you know, to be fully transparent, depression, anxiety, suicide has been a part of the family tree. And I've been clinically diagnosed by my cognitive behavioral therapist with, you know, some of that depression, anxiety. But I do so many things to counteract it where I haven't had to use pharmaceutical intervention. I haven't had to do those things.

Wow.

Because I'm aware and I'm working on it every single day and I love the process. of dissecting myself the same way I do in my coaching and consulting and speaking. I'm doing that for other people. So I wanna do that for myself so that I can get better. And I'm, I, I stay competitive to just, what did I do today to get better? What did I do today to get better? How am I better? Why am I better? Et cetera. So I don't know if that fully answers your question. I may have gone on a tangent, but—

No, for sure. You know, I appreciate you being so vulnerable. I know that I have personally struggled a lot with depression over the years, and thankfully I'm in a much, much better place than I have been in the past. But I also know that a lot of our listeners struggle with similar things. So it's cool to see somebody like you who has risen to a level of success that I think a lot of people would aspire to. And yet you've still struggled with the normal things that everyone struggles with. Because I think so often, you know, we see people like you and we're just like, ah, you know what, they're just different. They're special. I can't do it because I'm me. I struggle with this, that, and everything. We come up with all these excuses. Again, I know I have many, many times in my life. So it's really cool to see that you have all these practices in place and that you continue to go after what you want in your life. Do you have anything that you struggle with on a daily basis today that you're trying to overcome, that you're working on overcoming? Or do you feel like you're in such a good place that you don't even need to worry about it anymore?

No, I'm always working. I'm always analyzing and evaluating what are those thoughts that go through my head or what are the behaviors that are counterproductive to who I'm becoming and who I'm striving to be in the short, intermediate, and long term. And, you know, I'd say that a big thing ends up being that imposter syndrome, like, who the hell am I to be Saying these things. It's, it's held me back from social media and, you know, self— what's, what's the word I'm looking for? Self-promotion. Even as I have, you know, I'm gonna be 42, like I said, a 2-decade career and, and interpersonal relationships that have almost exclusively resulted in unsolicited positive feedback as to the impact that I've made for people. And I still am like in the deep recesses of my mind. And sometimes at the forefront of my mind, I'm like, all right, man, you know, simmer down, dude. You're, you're just, you're just Brett, you know, you're the kid from Bremerton, New Jersey that got a 2.3 GPA in college and bounced around plenty early in his career. But in the other side, and as I write, and I recognize like, no, you're the guy that has been both sides of the coin, the guy that, you know, sought knowledge and talked about it but didn't apply it yourself. And now you're the guy that practices what he preaches and continues to get better and, you know, hunts those dark recesses of his mind to confront them and actively address them rather than, that's just who I am. And, you know, this was the hand I was dealt. And So on and so forth. And it's, it's made all the difference in the world. It's, you know, I look at it, I will be doing this every day for as long as I'm alive in this world. And I love that. I love that I have the opportunity within the process and, and the discipline and the habits to actively get better.

And it makes me so excited seeing people like you achieve great things. I, I'm getting like goosebumps listening to you literally right now. Because I just, I get so caught up because I know I just on a daily basis, I get caught up in the same, the same thing, the same thoughts and the same negative beliefs. And it's really awesome to see that somebody else who has struggled with these things is actively overcoming them. So I appreciate you sharing, sharing those things and sharing your story on our, on our podcast here today. It's been, it's, it's, it's amazing. So thank you so much. But—

Thank you.

I had a follow-up for that that I just lost. So maybe Nick has a question that he can—

Yeah, I'll jump in. One of my favorite tips that I've heard for combating the imposter syndrome is that you provide value to people who are 1 or 2 degrees, I guess below is the wrong word. I'll restart this. You can provide value to people who haven't achieved what you've achieved yet. So, 1 or 2 degrees ahead of where they are, and you can look back and provide information to your younger self, that type of mentality. So, I love to see what you're doing, and we speak the same language. I can tell how much of this content you've consumed, how you're constantly feeding your brain with amazing information. And obviously, in this book, you provide a lot of value as well. And so, I look forward to you continuing to self-promote in a healthy way because your book is a solution. For the right person. Talking about self-promotion, maybe this is the last sales secret we could talk a little bit about today as an intro to the book. Referrals. It's something that I struggle with, maybe because of the self-promotion thing or feeling like I don't know what the issue is. Maybe you can help us explore it right now. But what are some of your tips for referrals and why are they important?

Yeah, you know, People that you work with are a walking billboard, a walking advertisement for the good work that you do. So when you overdeliver on value and expectations of, of your customer, they are going to be thrilled to refer you to other people. I can't tell you how many times over the course of my career where I finally asked, because once again, it was one of those, I wasn't practicing what I was preaching at, at, at various points earlier on. And like, dude, I've been waiting. Why didn't you ask sooner? Of course, I've got this person. I've got this person. I've got this person. So my business coach and one of the bigger influences in my life is a gentleman named David Meltzer. You know, he does— his whole mission is to empower over 1 billion people to be happy and successful. in this world, and he's well on his way to doing so. And he talks about this really important piece that we fail to do on a regular basis, and that's ask for help. Just ask people. The worst they can say is no. But we, for any number of reasons, fail to ask. We don't want to burden people. We may have that imposter syndrome despite the positive results we're generating for other people and are afraid to ask. Just ask, you know, and specifically ask the people that you've done right by and you're going to generate a lot more opportunity. And when you look at things through the lens of I love what I do, I love providing value for people, I know that what I do is a valuable resource. for people, it's nothing, nothing to feel bad about. You should feel great about it and want to flip it up. Dean Graziosi, it kind of sounded, you know, somewhat of what you were talking about earlier, turn your mess into your message. But he also talks about making sure that you're, you're doing people a disservice by not getting your word out there and getting your message out there, getting your product or service out there when you're doing something of such value for people.

Yeah, I agree. David's amazing, by the way. He's a previous podcast guest and I know that you profile him in the book and some of his expert advice. So for anybody that's interested in learning more, they can go check that out too. Luke always finishes the podcast with one special question. So I'll kick it over to Luke and time flies while we're having fun. I mean, we've already been talking for 45 minutes, so we'll kind of wrap things up, Brett. But Luke, hit us with that question.

First, I just, I couldn't believe I looked up at the, I have the timer over here and I looked up, I didn't even, I thought it had been like maybe 25 minutes and I looked up, I was like, oh, we're at, we're almost 50 minutes. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. So I like to end the podcast with this last question, which is really simple, but it's often a fun one. So if you passed away and all the information that you put out, every piece of, every piece of content, everything just disappeared, but you could leave the world with one single piece of advice, What would it be?

It's tremendous. And it's once again gonna come as no surprise because I've said it so many times today, but treat everyone you come in contact with as the most important person in the world. It, to me, there's relatively few greater gifts you can give to people by treating them with that type of respect and intentionally Doing so. You got it highlighted there. Nice.

You know, I do have it highlighted, but I also turned my video off, which was a recent sales tip that we learned from Jeb Blount. And I can't see myself anyway. But anyway, I have that highlighted in the book because it was such a good takeaway. I can't see where it is on the camera because my camera's off.

It's right in the middle. You're good.

You got it. You nailed it. So yeah, that's the one for me, you know, If you, when you focus on helping other people, you're just going to be served as a natural byproduct of that. So that would be my biggest word of advice and takeaway for people.

Yeah, such a good one. Yeah, I love it. All right, Brett, for people that want to learn a little bit more about you, your business, Your book, where should they go? What should they do?

Yeah, I mean, they can find me, my, my website or my company name is here, NofNo Solutions. You can check me out there, book a call with me. I love speaking and as much as I can help, whether directly or through referring you to so many tremendous people and practitioners in, in my network, I'd love to. Like I said, you're all unofficial mentors for me as well. And, you know, I, I find so much value there. Please go to Amazon, pick up the copy of the book, give me feedback. I just, I love hearing the good, the bad, the ugly. And, you know, I just look at it as a learning opportunity to get better because this isn't going to be the only one in the arsenal over time. Those are big things. Social media, any of it. I just, I love Talking to anyone and everyone about pretty much anything and everything. So.

Well, Brett, we thank you for your time, your mind, for putting in the work over the years. I know it has been a long journey, I'm sure, but it's really cool to see where you're at. So we appreciate you sharing with your story with us today. And yeah, anyone who's listening today, go check out his book. It's an awesome one, a great read, and you'll learn a lot even if you're not in sales, to be honest. Like, it's just, It's a, it's a great one for your just general mindset. And like Brett was saying, at the end of the day, everything is sales. It really is. So appreciate you.

Same to you. Thank you so much, guys.